July 21, 2015 ISI Radio Show with William J. Federer on “What Every American Needs to Know About the Qur’an” & David Wood on “How Safe is America Amid Modern Day Islamic Terror?”

Iron Sharpens Iron

Subscribe

Download

Share

00

00:02

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

00:08

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio platform on which pastors,

00:16

Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

00:24

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

00:32

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

00:46

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

00:57

Now here's our host Chris Arntzen. Good afternoon

01:06

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania and the rest of humanity living on the planet earth listening via live streaming.

01:13

This is Chris Arntzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron. Wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this 21st day of July 2015 and we have a very exciting and a very important program today.

01:28

I would say it's a vital program on Islam and it will be examined by two different guests.

01:36

The first guest coming up is Bill Federer. Many of you may recognize

01:42

Bill Federer from theamericanminute .com. He is also a prolific writer.

01:49

He is also a television host. I've seen his television program on the NRB network but perhaps it could be seen elsewhere in addition to that and today we are talking about Bill Federer's book

02:02

What Every American Needs to Know About the Quran and after that at 5 p .m.

02:09

for the second hour of Iron Sharpens Iron we have my very dear friend David Wood who is a

02:16

Christian apologist. He operates answeringmuslims .com and he hosts the program

02:23

Jesus or Muhammad on the Trinity channel and you can find out how and where you could watch the

02:31

Trinity channel at trinitychannel .com and that's coming up as I said at 5 p .m.

02:36

but right now we are honored to welcome back for the second time on Iron Sharpens Iron Bill Federer.

02:44

Well Chris, great to be with you. It's great to be with you too Bill and Bill was on my program a number of years ago on the old

02:51

Iron Sharpens Iron program. I think it may have even been a July 4th program or a day before July 4th in honor of Independence Day but it's great to have you back.

03:03

I had the privilege of seeing Bill at a live public conference at the

03:11

Long Island Baptist Church in Holtsville a number of years ago. Actually that was probably only about a year ago.

03:17

Do you remember when that was Bill? Yes, yes. Now I want to ask is my voice coming through clear?

03:24

Yours is a little hard for me to hear but I didn't know if you can hear me okay.

03:30

If so then we're fine. Yeah I can hear you perfectly and the mystery behind the studio is that for some reason my guests very often complain that my voice sounds a little fuzzy but when the recordings of the broadcast are posted on my website my voice sounds crystal clear so I'm never understanding why that is.

03:54

But anyway, when was that conference that you conducted on American history at the Long Island Baptist Church Bill?

04:02

Well I can't remember the dates offhand but I get a chance to speak around the country probably several hundred times a year churches and schools and universities and tea party gatherings and 9 -11 and Republican groups all kinds of different avenues but I also as you mentioned do the radio and TV program.

04:29

One of my new favorite quotes is from Arthur Schlesinger. He was a Pulitzer Prize winning author that was on John F.

04:35

Kennedy's cabinet and Arthur Schlesinger said history is to the nation as memory is to the individual.

04:42

So if you can imagine an individual who's lost their memory maybe they have Alzheimer's and they don't remember who they are they don't remember who you are they don't recognize what's going on well in America we've lost our memory.

04:55

Here we are the freest and most prosperous country that planet earth has ever seen with more individual freedom and liberty and opportunity more inventions more prosperity and we've forgotten how we've gotten here and as a result we're letting it slip through our fingers like sand so it's of the utmost urgency that we remember who we are and so that's one of the benefits a great quote from Winston Churchill he said the farther back you can look the farther forward you are likely to see.

05:25

So I found that by looking back we can gain a trajectory we could get a starting point of all the sacrifices and that were made by those generations that went before to give us the freedoms that we have today.

05:39

So you've basically in a nutshell described the purpose of American Yes, well the

05:47

American minute is to take our daily history and break it into bite -sized doses so that we can get an education.

05:55

I have a cross -section of famous battles and explorers and scientists and musicians women leaders african -american leaders you know everyone from Christopher Columbus to Abigail Adams to George Washington to George Patton to General Omar Bradley to the you know recently the space exploration people forget that July 20th of 1969 is when

06:23

Buzz Aldrin landed on the moon and a matter of fact

06:30

Buzz Aldrin celebrated communion on the moon was actually the first thing he ate and drank on the moon and he asked for radio silence because Madeleine Murray O 'Hare had sued when the

06:44

Apollo 8 astronauts had read the first chapter of the book of Genesis. So it sort of goes back through our history and pulls out the

06:54

Christian Judeo -Christian values to remind us of the great people that went before us.

07:01

And today we are going to be addressing what every American needs to know about the

07:06

Quran a history of Islam in the United States and that's not to be confused with another excellent book by my friend

07:13

Dr. James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries what every Christian needs to know about the

07:18

Quran which you can get as well and I will be giving you information later on one of our sponsors or actually two of our sponsors that that offers books such as these but Keith Ellison was the first Muslim elected to Congress in 2006 and he was sworn in using the

07:41

Quran. Well was that one of the motivations for you writing this book to begin with what every

07:46

Christian needs to know about the Quran? Right well actually my title is what every

07:51

American needs to know about the Quran. Yes I'm sorry. The subtitle is the history of Islam in the

07:57

United States. Well the dilemma with swearing in upon a Quran is twofold.

08:04

One is in Islam they say that the Quran is superior to every man -made law including the constitution.

08:12

Right. So how can you swear to uphold a constitution on a book that says it's superior to the constitution?

08:19

Second the Quran says it's okay to lie to make the Quran superior.

08:25

It's called taqiyya, sacred lying, holy deceit. So you're swearing on a book that says it's okay to lie and it's superior to the constitution and you're supposed to be swearing to uphold the constitution.

08:34

A little bit of research shows that there is a discrepancy there.

08:40

Now we've seen that we have stories in the headlines of Muslims killing people and recently in Chattanooga Tennessee and the news media and the president say well we can't understand why they would do this.

08:57

The killers don't represent true Islam. Yet the Muslims that are doing the killing they often are yelling

09:03

Allahu Akbar and saying that they are the true Muslims and the question is who can tell us who the real

09:11

Muslim is? Well actually there's only one person that can do that. His name is Muhammad.

09:17

Muhammad was the best Muslim that ever lived. His life is actually called the sunnah which means the way or the example.

09:25

And so if we can put Muhammad's life under a microscope and look at it, it actually provides the

09:30

DNA for those trying to be like Muhammad. And Muhammad's life went through three stages and quickly they are religious, political and military.

09:40

So when we start with Muhammad being born in 570 A .D. and around 610

09:47

A .D. is when he begins his faith and he goes into the pagan city of Mecca and after 12 years he only makes 70 converts.

09:57

He gets confrontational and the people of Mecca chase Muhammad out of town for disturbing the peace and he flees north 210 miles to a

10:07

Jewish city called Medina. And the Jews are nice, they let him in as a refugee, as an immigrant and he presents his faith to the

10:15

Jews but they reject his faith but they're nice, they let him stay. And so he goes into the minority neighborhoods in Medina and he begins to organize a following.

10:25

We're familiar with the term of organizing in the community and so he organizes in the community, he gets a following, he goes back to the

10:32

Jewish leaders and he presents himself as a candidate of change, as a newcomer to the politics of the city and he actually pressures the

10:40

Jews to make a treaty with him and now he is a political leader in addition to being a religious leader.

10:48

But Muhammad's followers back in Mecca, they get pushy, confrontational, argumentative and threatening the way some of his followers are today.

10:57

They get chased out of town for disturbing the peace, they go north to Medina and Muhammad permits his followers to rob the caravans headed to Mecca in retaliation for the

11:10

Meccans chasing them out of town. So where Jesus said if they take your coat give them your shirt,

11:16

Muhammad's attitude was if they take your house you retaliate, take their caravan. And so Muhammad gets a whole chapter of the

11:23

Quran, it's chapter 8, surah 8 on how to distribute booty from robbing caravans.

11:28

He gets a fifth of the booty and so we see the Meccans send a thousand soldiers to protect and escort their caravan as it goes by Medina while Muhammad with 300 warriors defeats a thousand at the

11:41

Battle of Badr in 624 AD. This amazing victory having been outnumbered three to one convinces

11:48

Muhammad to be a military leader and he fights in 66 battles and raids in the next eight years before he dies.

11:56

He even used the catapult when he attacked a city called Al -Taif and when he was told the catapult was smashing and killing innocent women and children,

12:05

Muhammad's response was they are among them so they got to be killed too. So suicide bombers and ISIS killers today and Chattanooga killers say it's okay to kill and behead people to advance

12:17

Islam because Muhammad said so. And since Muhammad is the perfect Muslim and his life is the example, the way, the sunnah, those that want to be like Muhammad they imitate him religiously, politically, and militarily.

12:31

So there's freedom for all religions in America but Islam is not just a religion because Muhammad was not just a religious leader, he was a political and a the first Muslim elected to Congress in 2006 when he was sworn in on the

12:53

Quran and you said that the Quran is believed by Muslims to be superior to the

12:58

Constitution. Well we as Christians believe the Bible is superior to the Constitution so how would that be a different scenario from a

13:08

Christian or anybody else swearing on the Bible when Christians believe that is superior to the

13:14

Constitution? Well the Bible says that each person has their own relationship with God and then the people amongst themselves choose their leaders.

13:25

This is the Bible this goes back to the book of Exodus where Moses went to the people and said how can

13:32

I bear your cumbrance and your burden? Take you wise men amongst yourselves known among your tribes and bring them to me and I'll make them your rulers.

13:42

So in other words the Christian form of government is the people ruling through their chosen representatives and so when somebody says

13:51

I'm going to step on the flag what they're saying is I don't want to be the king anymore. In America the people are the king, each person is directly responsible to God and it is a couple other very important points is the

14:04

Bible gives birth to the idea of equality. So in the most common form of government in world history is kings and I've written a whole book on this called

14:17

Change to Chains the Six Thousand Year Quest for Global Control but you read through the pages of history and you read

14:24

Pharaohs, Caesars, Kaisers, Sultans, Czars, Maharaja, Genghis Khan, Julius, Caesar, Tilga Han, King Kamehameha, the most common form of government is kings and if you are friends with the king you are more equal.

14:40

If you are not friends with the king you are less equal and if you're an enemy of the king you're dead it's called treason.

14:48

So for most of world history it was this hierarchical system of how close can you and your family get to the royal family, what caste are you born into.

14:57

When Moses gave the law to the children of Israel the law said there is no respect of persons and judgment.

15:06

Rich or poor everyone's to be treated the same. You should not show short partiality to the poor because they're poor and you should not show favorability to the rich because they're rich.

15:14

Everyone is treated the same. This was the beginning of the concept of equality on planet earth that everyone you see is equal to you.

15:23

There's again no royal family to put her up next to, women, male, female, made in the image of the creator.

15:30

Even the stranger living amongst you is under the same law that you're under. And so in Sharia, Islamic law, the stranger is a non -Muslim, is a demi -status person that has no rights in a

15:42

Sharia court compared to a Muslim. It takes, you know, four women to testify against one man.

15:49

A woman gets half the inheritance that a man gets. In Israel it says that the women are equal to the men, that God made man and woman in his image.

15:59

Different roles but equal in God's sight. Going back to the spread of Islam over the world, how much of the world has been conquered by Islam and how soon did that happen after the lifetime of their prophet

16:16

Muhammad? Well today about a quarter of the world is Islamic. There are 57 Muslim country leaders.

16:22

They call them the Dar al -Islam, the house of Islam. And the non -Muslim world is called the Dar al -Harb, house of war.

16:30

So they see the world as in two halves. And so in Islam they think there'll be peace when the whole world submits to the will of Allah.

16:40

So to them world peace means world Islam. We use the term peace as defined by different groups getting along.

16:49

Their definition of the word peace is when the whole world submits to the will of Allah. So it is a religion of peace and it's just their definition of peace is different than ours.

17:00

Now a moderate Muslim believes the world's going to submit later, maybe at the end of the world or maybe it's figurative.

17:06

The fundamental Muslim thinks the world is supposed to submit now and they're really excited and they want to help make it happen.

17:12

Muhammad dies in 632 AD and within a hundred years of his death the

17:18

Muslims set off to set up their Islamic state, their Dar al -Islam, their caliphate to bring the world into submission to Allah.

17:25

And so they conquer Jerusalem which had been a Byzantine Christian city around 638

17:31

AD. The Muslims under Caliph Umar conquer Syria. Syria was the first country to completely be

17:38

Christian, evangelized by the apostle Paul. And Antioch, Syria is where the name Christian was first used until Caliph Umar conquered it.

17:48

Egypt had been Christian for six centuries, evangelized by Mark that wrote the gospel,

17:53

Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, until Amir ibn conquered it and destroyed the pyramids the same way that the

17:59

ISIS Muslims today are destroying the ancient Assyrian museums and the grave of Jonah.

18:06

People forget all of North Africa used to be Christian. There were 250

18:12

Catholic dioceses along North Africa all the way up through the 7th century until the

18:19

Umayyad Muslims wiped them out. Saint Augustine of Hippo was from Carthage, today that's

18:24

Tunisia. And then in the year 711, 80 ,000 Muslims invaded

18:30

Spain and they crossed the Strait of Gibraltar and they had their horses, their stirrups, their scimitar swords.

18:38

The Europeans were still fighting on foot with heavy metal swords. So in 10 years the

18:44

Muslim warriors conquered all of Spain and carried away untold thousands into slavery.

18:51

Then they crossed the Pyrenees Mountains, conquered southern France. You read the story of the Battle of Bordeaux, and it's a city where they make wine today, but back then the

19:03

Muslims' cavalry was charging. The Franks, which we use for the ones where we get the word

19:12

French, but the Franks were lined up in the field and in one pass the Muslim cavalry annihilated the

19:19

Frankish army. I mean they literally could slice someone in half while riding at a full gallop with their stirrups and scimitar swords.

19:26

So Pope Gregory puts out a plea that anybody that could fight should please come and join

19:31

Charles Martel. He was the grandfather of Charlemagne. And so Charles Martel gets 30 ,000 volunteers.

19:38

They're all on foot and they're dressed with, you know, animal pelts and axes. They're straight off the farm and Charles Martel puts them on top of the hill and tours

19:48

France just outside of Paris, and the Muslim cavalry charges. And as they charge, they charge into the square.

19:58

There's 30 ,000 men in one square on top of the hill. So the warriors charge into it thinking that it's a line.

20:03

They're going to come out the other side. Well, they get stuck. Meanwhile, Charles Martel had arranged for some of his men to sneak into the

20:11

Muslim camp and free the captives because they fought for religion, but they also fought for plunder. You could come away from battle with extra women.

20:18

Mohammed said you can have four wives plus as many extra women as your right hand possesses.

20:24

And of course, if you die in battle, you can get you get 72 virgins. So it's a strong sexual motivation to fight and die in jihad.

20:32

Anyway, as these warriors, these Muslim warriors at the Battle of Tours saw the women captives being let go from the camp, they would leave the fighting to go back and reclaim their captives.

20:43

And when the Muslim commander, Abdul Rahman, sees them leaving, he tries to rally his men back.

20:51

He gets distracted and killed. And the Muslim warriors start bickering amongst themselves. They can't decide who their next commander is going to be.

20:58

And so they pick up and go back to Spain. That was the Battle of Tours in 732

21:03

A .D., exactly 100 years after the death of Mohammed in 632 A .D. They went from Arabia to Paris in a military campaign.

21:11

They were setting up their ISIS, their Islamic State, their caliphate, bringing the world into submission to Allah.

21:18

And it had Charles Martel not stopped them at the Battle of Tours.

21:24

We would be speaking Arabic right now because German, French, English and Spanish would have never developed his languages because there was no other army in Europe.

21:33

Charles Martel had the largest army. If he was not successful in stopping the Muslims, they would have conquered all the way through Poland.

21:40

And so we see that it took 700 years to drive the

21:46

Muslims out of Spain. They finally did in 1492. So that was the first Islamic state, so to speak.

21:53

It was the Umayyad Persian Arab state. But then we see the

22:00

Turks convert to Islam, and this begins the second spring. And it starts in the year 1071, and they invade into what is today

22:08

Turkey and then into Eastern Europe, control the Mediterranean. And that continues through 1928 when it finally collapses.

22:16

Now, in any of these countries where Islam is the theocracy, do people of other religions really have any freedoms at all?

22:32

Well, I'm having a little difficulty hearing your question. In countries where there is a

22:38

Muslim majority or a theocracy, how much freedom do people like Christians and people of other religions really have?

22:46

Well, you have the choice. You convert, you die, or you be a dhimmi. D -H -I -M -M -I, dhimmi.

22:53

It's a second -class citizenship. It's very similar to how the Democrats treated the blacks in the

22:59

South after the Civil War. Lincoln Republican freed the slaves. Democrats passed

23:05

Jim Crow laws, black codes, and started the KKK. Even Senator Byrne in the 1960s was filibustering the

23:13

Republican civil rights bills, and he had been a member of the KKK. And George Wallace in the

23:18

South, a Democrat, not wanting to have integration and so forth. And so the Republicans, one out of every ten lynchings, was a white

23:26

Republican trying to register the blacks in the South to vote. Well, what happened? These Jim Crow laws and black codes relegated the freed slaves to a second -class status.

23:39

And they had to live in different neighborhoods, they had to use different drinking fountains and different entrances into the buildings, and if they ever got uppity, they could be lynched.

23:50

And the police would just not happen to find out who did the lynching. And so it was understood that you were a second -class citizen, and you learn your subservient role, and as long as you stay there, everything's fine.

24:05

Now, that is a horrible chapter in America's history, but it is an accurate description of how

24:10

Christians have to live to learn in a Muslim country. They are second -class citizens.

24:16

They have to learn what neighborhoods they can and cannot go into. If a Muslim's walking down the sidewalk, they have to get off the sidewalk and let the

24:24

Muslim go by. If a Muslim walks into a room, they have to stand up and give him their chair. If a

24:30

Muslim youth hits you, you cannot hit back, because if they do, they'll retaliate against your family and your village and the whole

24:37

Christian community, and nobody in the world is going to come to your rescue. And so it's a second -class citizenship that the

24:44

Christians have had to have. And so it's all dependent on what type of mood the

24:52

Muslims are in. What percentage of the world would you say is currently under Sharia law specifically?

25:01

Well, you have the 57 Muslim countries' leaders.

25:07

They formed their own bloc inside of the United Nations. It's called the OIC, Organization of Islamic Cooperation.

25:14

Hillary Clinton met with them all in 2011. And in Istanbul, Turkey, it's called the

25:19

Istanbul Process. Their big issue was they wanted to force the world to become dhimmi status.

25:25

And what is dhimmi status? Well, in addition to having to pay the jizya, a tax once a year to ransom your life, dhimmi people are forbidden to insult

25:36

Islam. And so these OIC, these 57 Muslim country leaders, wanted to get everybody in the world to be forbidden to insult

25:45

Islam. Now, just to make it really clear, the gospel insults Islam. If you were to stand on the street corner of Saudi Arabia and say,

25:53

Jesus is the way to heaven, they would kill you. Saying that Jerusalem is the capital of Israel insults

25:59

Islam. Matter of fact, anything that's not Islam insults Islam. So when they say they wanted to stop people from insulting

26:07

Islam, they're saying they want global Sharia law. Hillary Clinton meets with them, promises to help them.

26:13

Shortly after that, she pulls the troops and security out of Benghazi. When the ambassadors killed,

26:19

Hillary immediately says, if these people that insulted Islam with this video, we have to stop people from insulting

26:26

Islam. And Susan Rice says, we got to stop people from insulting Islam. And President Obama says, the future does not belong to those who insult

26:34

Islam. And it was going on this road where they were trying to ramrod it through. And suddenly somebody found the journal of the ambassador saying,

26:43

I've been asking Hillary for security for six months and she's turning a deaf ear. And so then the whole thing happens and finds out that Hillary intentionally left the guy undefended.

26:56

And so there's this move to bring it in. And first, I mentioned those three phases of Mohammed's life, how he went from a religious leader to a political leader to a military leader.

27:08

And this is so important because this is the pattern. The first Muslims come into a country and they're just religious.

27:15

And they just say, Hey, we're just religious. And people say, there's nothing to fear. They just want to be religious.

27:21

Fine. Come on in. They come in, they end up building communities and then they get an Imam and the

27:26

Imam says, follow the Quran closer. And so they'd be and the burqas.

27:32

And then they begin to pressure the society to accommodate them.

27:37

And they begin to get political and saying, don't insult us and don't have work.

27:42

And we don't want work in a grocery store. We have to check out bacon and we don't want to have to take a person with a blind seeing or somebody that's drunk or will sell alcohol.

27:52

Anyway, they begin to make the country change their laws to accommodate them.

27:58

And as more Muslims move into a neighborhood, people begin to move out.

28:04

And those that refuse to move out, that is when there's random violence. And there's no witnesses, because no

28:10

Muslim will testify against another Muslim on behalf of a cop or infidel. And so what happens is they effectively take over the neighborhood.

28:19

And so they go from immigrating to increasing to eliminating. And it's the three stages of Mohammed's life.

28:25

First, he was an immigrant. And then he organized and got involved politically. And then he eliminated the previous culture.

28:32

So interesting years of Mohammed coming into Medina as an immigrant. It was a

28:38

Jewish city within five years after his coming there. There's not a Jew left in the city. They were chased out, killed or enslaved.

28:45

Wow. It's a process that's pretty observable in history. And it's happening in Europe right now.

28:52

And it's beginning to happen in America with the very large numbers of Muslim immigrants that the president is bringing in with no background checks, no vetting going on, no security clearances.

29:04

They're just being transplanted into cities all across America. In fact, in Dearborn, Illinois, it's kind of getting frightening from what

29:11

I've seen through my friend, David Wood, who's been evangelizing there. It's almost like a little

29:19

Islamic state there. But we're going to be going to our first break right now. If you'd like to join us on the air with a question for Bill Federer on what every

29:29

American needs to know about the Iran, a history of Islam in the United States, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

29:38

C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. Don't go away.

29:43

We'll be right back with Bill Federer. Thriven Financial is pleased to support

29:50

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. While others see money as a goal, Thriven sees it as a tool for serving

29:57

God, family and community. For more than a century, Thriven has helped its nearly two and a half million

30:03

Christian members make financial decisions that reflect their values, while also helping them live generously.

30:11

Find out more by contacting me, Mike Gallagher, at 717 -254 -6433.

30:19

Thriven Financial, connecting faith and finances for good. We know we were made for so much more than ordinary life.

30:30

Lending faith, finances and generosity. That's the Thriven story. We were made to thrive.

30:47

I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries. The New American Standard Bible is perfect for daily reading or in -depth study.

30:53

Used by pastors, scholars and everyday readers, the NASB is widely embraced and trusted as a literal and readable

30:59

Bible translation. The NASB offers clarity and readability while maintaining high accuracy to the original languages which the

31:05

NASB is known for. The NASB is available in many editions like a topical reference Bible. Researched and prepared by biblical scholars devoted to accuracy, the new topical reference

31:15

Bible includes contemporary topics relevant to today's issues. From compact to giant print

31:21

Bibles, find an NASB that fits your needs very affordably at nasbible .com.

31:26

Trust, discover and enjoy the NASB for yourself today. Go to nasbible .com.

31:32

That's nasbible .com. Tired of box store Christianity, of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert?

31:41

Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship? And how about the preaching? Perhaps you've begun to think that in -depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long Island.

31:51

Well, there's good news. Wedding River Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience featuring the systematic exposition of God's Word.

32:01

And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you. Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times.

32:09

631 -929 -3512 or check out their website at wrbc .us.

32:17

That's wrbc .us. Welcome back.

32:23

This is Chris Arms and if you've just tuned us in on Iron Sharpens Iron, our guest today is Bill Federer of AmericanMinute .com

32:31

and we are discussing one of his many books, What Every American Needs to Know About the

32:37

Quran, A History of Islam in the United States. We do have a listener in Stryker, Ohio who has a question for you,

32:47

Bill. How would you answer someone of the Islamic faith who says that a

32:52

Christian or anyone else cannot properly read the Quran unless it is in the original language,

32:59

Arabic, which will discourage many from even trying to read the Quran? So, in other words, there are

33:05

Muslims who will take your assessment of what the Quran teaches and say you don't know what you're talking about because you have to read it in Arabic.

33:12

If you want to respond to that. You don't have to read it at all. You just look at how the

33:18

Muslims are killing people. Yes, exactly. That's a very good answer. Even historically, this is not...

33:26

There's one quote where an author says any scholar's particular translation of a verse in the

33:37

Quran is one thing, but Islam on the street is a totally different animal.

33:43

So, you can decipher verses all day long. Does beating your wife mean you just sort of tap her on the hand or does it mean cutting off her nose?

33:52

I mean, you can argue over that all day long. The fact is, on the street, they are killing and beheading and butchering and so that's all people care about.

34:03

It's like, look, you can debate the finities of it all day long and that doesn't bother anybody.

34:10

It's just people don't want to be killed. They don't want acid thrown in their face. They don't want to be raped and so that's a very simplistic smokescreen that really has no relevance to what we're facing in the world.

34:30

By the way, Scott in Stryker, Ohio, please email us your mailing address because thanks to the generosity of Bill Federer, you are going to receive a free copy of his book,

34:44

What Every American Needs to Know About the Quran, A History of Islam in the United States. And we do have another listener in Fort Myers, Florida.

34:57

Oh, I'm sorry. I'm looking at the wrong question here. We have a question from Tom in West Islet, New York.

35:07

What do we do when an ideology's tenants are to cause others to submit?

35:15

I'm assuming what he means by that is that if people who are such as Muslims coming to the

35:23

United States and they are trying to teach others that their ultimate goal is that we, who are non -Muslims, submit to them.

35:32

I assume that's what Tom means. Maybe Tom wants to email us back. He can clarify that. But do you have a response to that,

35:39

Bill? Well, there is a bumper sticker that says coexist. You may have seen that.

35:45

And it has an implied thought that we should all just get along with each other.

35:51

But for that to happen, each group would have to teach itself to tolerate those that are not in their group.

36:00

And so you look, Christianity says do unto others as you would have them do unto you.

36:06

Judaism says be nice to the stranger because you were once a stranger in Egypt.

36:12

Even Buddhism has karma. What goes around comes around. So you want to be nice to people because it's going to come back around and kick you, right?

36:19

But Islam teaches submission. And so we see that wherever it comes, it eradicates all previous cultures.

36:31

And so when the Muslims conquered Egypt, they destroyed the pyramids. They destroyed the Coptic Egyptian language.

36:38

When the Muslims invaded into what is today Turkey, they reveled all seven cities mentioned in the

36:44

Book of Revelation. They blew up the Buddha statue in the mountainside of Afghanistan.

36:50

They destroyed the the museum in Mosul, Nineveh there in, you know, in Iraq.

36:59

And so there's this effort that everything that is not Muslim is to be destroyed and erased and eradicated.

37:06

And anyway, so I don't know if that answers your question or not.

37:13

Well, maybe Tom, if he wants to email us back. Tom in West Islip, New York. And by the way, you'll be getting a free copy of Bill's book,

37:22

What Every American Needs to Know About the Quran. If I could throw in one thing on that. The Jewish history says, well,

37:33

David wiped out villages and David had lots of wine. And so isn't that okay for Mohammed to wipe out villages and Mohammed to wipe out a lot of lives?

37:45

Well, there are some significant differences. The Jews just wanted their little plot of geography and leave them alone.

37:55

There is no command for the Jews to subdue the world by force and force everybody to worship

38:02

Yahweh. In Islam, they have a command to subdue the entire world and to bring the whole world into submission to Allah.

38:12

Also, the Jewish law does teach an eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth.

38:17

The Jewish law does say the stranger living amongst you is under the same law that you're under.

38:23

And so there's inequality there. Islam doesn't have that. The stranger non -Muslim is a dhimmi, a second -class citizen that has no rights compared to a

38:34

Muslim. The Jewish faith has the law. It's equal. And so if you murder a woman or you murder a man, it's still murder.

38:44

In Islam, women are treated less and that husbands can beat their wives and honor kill their daughters and so forth.

38:53

So there is a significant difference of saying, well, Jews have their

38:58

Hasidic law, Muslims have their Sharia law. Yeah, but the Jews, after the

39:03

Dyspora, after they were scattered around the world when Jerusalem was destroyed in 70

39:09

AD, there was a rabbi in Babylon, Persia, and he taught that the law of the land is the law.

39:18

In other words, whatever country you live in, whether it's Spain or the Ottoman Empire or Germany or in Persia, just live by whatever laws there are in that country.

39:28

Your goal is just to survive. And you practice your Jewish law in your home or in Europe, the

39:36

Jews were not allowed to live outside of their neighborhoods. And so their neighborhoods were called ghettos and they could practice there.

39:41

But the Jews had no subversive plots to overthrow the governments of these different places and institute their

39:50

Jewish law by force. Not so with Islam. They have a 1400 year track record of coming in and subverting the laws and instituting their

40:01

Sharia law as dominant, as superior and eradicating previous laws, previous cultures, previous languages, previous everything.

40:10

And so there's all of North Africa used to be Christian. It's now Muslim. All of Egypt used to be

40:16

Christian. It's now predominantly Muslim. All of the Middle East used to be, that was the birthplace of Christianity.

40:22

Syria was the first country to completely be Christian until Caliph Umar invaded. And so we see that there is a domestic species and invasive species.

40:32

And there's domestic ideologies and invasive ideologies. And in this case,

40:38

Islam has a 1400 year track record of erasing all previous cultures.

40:44

That's right. And we've been speaking a lot about the global threat of Islam and the the conquering of lands all over the world.

40:54

Let's focus our attention more to America now. President Obama stated in Cairo, Egypt in 2009 that Islam has always been a part of American history.

41:07

Well, that's true, but that's not such a wonderful thing, is it? If you could tell us something about Islam and its connection to American history with the

41:16

Barbary pirates and other things, that has obviously been not a wonderful thing, as Barack Obama seemed to intend to convey by that statement.

41:28

Right. In my book, What Every American Needs to Know About the Quran and the History of Islam in the United States. And by the way,

41:34

I do have several DVD series that's on my website, AmericanMinute .com. One DVD series is called

41:40

Islamic Conquest, Past and Present. The other one is called Political Islam's War in the

41:46

West. But as we see, when the Muslims conquered Egypt, they held back ships of papyrus.

41:54

These were reeds that grew along the Nile Delta that they used in Europe for paper. So there was a sudden paper shortage in Europe, and we call this the

42:02

Dark Ages. And then when the Muslims invaded into Greece and Turkey in the 1400s, the

42:10

Greek scholars fled for their lives to Florence, Italy, bringing their Greek art, architecture, and literature into Europe, into Western Europe, and we call this the

42:19

Renaissance. And so Islam's responsible for the Dark Ages, when they conquered Egypt, and held back the ships of papyrus, and they were responsible for the

42:28

Renaissance, when they invaded Greece, and all the Greek scholars fled to Italy. Well, when the

42:33

Muslims conquered Constantinople in 1453, it cut off the land trade routes to get from Europe to India and China.

42:43

People forget, Marco Polo, in 1271, went from Venice, Italy, to China.

42:49

And he brought back spaghetti, coal, gunpowder, talked about thread from worms, silkworms, and plates made out of China, talked about the

42:56

Chinese inventing the compass, and the wheelbarrow, and they had a pony express, and China was technologically superior to Europe, and India had teas, dyes, and spices, and the

43:06

Europeans wanted to trade. But when the Muslims conquered Central Asia, there was a Muslim leader named Tamerlane that killed 17 million people through Central Asia, and wiped out

43:15

Christianity there. But it ended the land trade routes, and finally Constantinople was sacked by Sultan Mehmed II in 1453, which ended all land trade from Europe to India and China, again, the year 1453.

43:29

What happened a few years later, in 1492, Columbus said, hey, now that the land routes to India and China are cut off,

43:35

I have an idea for a sea route to India and China. He set sail, thinks he's in India, so he names the people he meets

43:42

Indians. Think of it, we never would have called Native Americans Indians if it was not for Islamic jihad, if it was not for the

43:48

Islamic state cutting off the land routes to India and China, which gave birth to Columbus wanting to find the sea route to India and China.

43:56

But then the Muslims had piracy, and Mohammed raided caravans, but then the

44:01

Muslims would raid the ships on the Mediterranean, and then they raided the coast of Italy. In 846

44:07

AD, 11 ,000 Muslims invaded Rome, Italy, and they trashed the graves of St.

44:13

Peter and St. Paul. And it was after that that Pope Leo decided to build a wall around the Vatican. But there were whole areas of Italy where there was not a woman of childbearing age for generations, because the

44:24

Muslim pirates would come up and kidnap them, like Boko Haram in Nigeria, and take him captive, and they'd never see him again.

44:30

And then there were entire Catholic orders in Europe called the Trinitarians. The head of the order was called the

44:36

Ransomer, and they would collect alms and donations and go under a white flag to North Africa to try to get your friend back who was captured from a

44:43

Greek island or an Italian coast. And people forget that one of the pilgrim ships in 1625 was loaded up with 800 pounds of beaverskins, and it was sent back to Europe, to England for trade.

44:56

And a Turkish man of war, a ship, captured the pilgrim ship, took it to Morocco, sold the crew into slavery.

45:03

In 1630, the Muslim pirates captured an entire Irish village, the stolen village of Baltimore, Ireland, rounded up the whole town, took them to Morocco, sold them into slavery.

45:14

Around 1637, Muslims captured 400 people from Reykjavik, Iceland, took them to Morocco, sold them into slavery.

45:22

And so there were these Catholic orders, and finally, the European countries decided to pay an annual tribute.

45:28

England, Sweden, France, Spain would pay millions of dollars equivalent a year to these Muslim pirates to leave their country's ships alone.

45:36

Well, when America got independent of Britain, the Muslim pirates said, oh, well, if you're not part of Britain, that means that you have to pay your own tribute.

45:47

And so that's when they began to attack and capture American ships and stick our crews in the dungeons of Algiers, Tunisia, and Tripoli.

45:55

Thomas Jefferson was ambassador to France. He meets with the Muslim ambassador from Tripoli and said, what did we do to offend you?

46:02

We're like a brand new country. Why are you kidnapping and attacking our ships? He said, the

46:08

Muslim answered him that it was written in their Quran that all nations who should not acknowledge Islam's authority were sinners, and it was their right and duty to make them captive and make them slaves.

46:17

And any Muslim who should be slain in battle was sure to go to paradise. Anyway, Jefferson gets to be the third president.

46:25

He's fed up with paying off 20 percent of our federal budget to these Muslim pirates. And so he sends in the

46:31

Navy and the Marines, and we get the Marine anthem from the halls of Montezuma to the shores of Tripoli.

46:38

And so this was the first major military engagement after the Revolutionary War, and we won.

46:45

Anyway, I could go through the history, but it is as Islam conquers civilization in the east is when it began to flee west.

46:55

Well, what happened to over 1 .5 million Armenian Christians when

47:01

Woodrow Wilson failed to convince the United States Senate to adopt

47:06

Armenia as a protectorate similar to Puerto Rico? Right. Well, there's three springs in Muslim history.

47:13

The first Arab -Persian spring goes from 622 to 1071. The second is a Turkish spring, and that goes from 1071 to 1922 when the

47:24

Ottoman Empire fell. And the third Arab spring started in 1928 with the Muslim Brotherhood. And so the part you're talking about is the end of the

47:31

Turkish spring, so to speak. In 1896,

47:37

Abdul Hamid in Turkey kills about 100 ,000 Armenian Christians. He's chased out.

47:44

They have this brief euphoria where they got rid of their dictator, and they're going to set up a democracy, a constitution, right?

47:52

We hear the story. Well, they get three Turkish generals that take over. They're called the Young Turks. They lure all the

47:59

Armenian Christian men into the military. It's the first time in a millennium that these

48:04

Turkish Christian Armenians could be involved in the military. Once he gets them all in there, they decide to make them noncombatant soldiers.

48:13

They take away their weapons. And then they put them on work assignments where they don't feed them, and they have to mark through waist -high snow.

48:19

And then they surround them and machine gun them down and stab them to death. And once all the

48:25

Christian young men are gone, then they attack the Christian cities. And they killed a million and a half Armenian Christians between 1915 and 1922.

48:33

They killed about 750 Syrian Christians and all the different Kurds and all these different groups.

48:39

And they wanted to force everyone to submit. They outlawed the Kurdish language. And anyway, this is called a genocide.

48:48

And these Armenians flee. Many flee to America. In California, there's little

48:55

Armenia, different places. But it was a horrible tragedy. Anyway, then we see that after World War I, the

49:05

Ottoman Empire was disbanded. France took a part of the old Ottoman Empire, Lebanon, and Syria.

49:11

Britain took a part of the old Ottoman Empire. Iraq, Egypt, Palestine, they wanted

49:16

America to take a little part of it. Armenian, we said no. And because we were tired after World War I.

49:22

So that's when this butchery took place. It is interesting that the Muslim world at this point viewed itself as defeated.

49:31

And sort of like after the bomb was dropped on, you know, Japan, the

49:36

Japanese felt like their religion had let them down. After the Ottoman Empire was disbanded after World War I, the

49:43

Muslim world viewed itself as defeated. So the Muslim leaders decided they wanted to be friends with the

49:49

West. Britain had ruled the world for two centuries. America wins World War I, World War II.

49:55

And so the Muslims see us with airplanes, telephones, televisions. They're still riding around on camels with mountains of useless sand.

50:03

And so all these Muslim world leaders, they're like the Shah of Iran, right? They loved the West. They dressed in business suits.

50:09

They taught English in their countries. But then two major things happened. In 1928, the

50:15

Muslim Brotherhood was started, and said, stop trying to be friends with the West. We've got to get back to conquering the world for Allah.

50:21

And they would target these secular leaders in the Middle East, and the West would prop up these secular leaders.

50:27

But the second thing in 1938, Standard Oil Company of California discovered oil in the sands of Saudi Arabia.

50:35

And within one generation, Saudi Arabia went from the poorest Muslim country to the richest

50:41

Muslim country. And so the surrounding Muslim countries said, why should we be like the

50:46

West to be blessed? Let's be like Saudi Arabia. So we, being the

50:51

West, with these oil companies, we actually flipped the switch, the electric magnet, so to speak.

50:57

And instead of the Muslims wanting to be like West, we made Saudi Arabia so rich, they all wanted to be like Saudi Arabia.

51:04

It just so happens that Saudi Arabia was the most fundamental backwards Muslim country, still practicing their

51:09

Wahhabi version of Islam, cutting off arms and legs. And they still do it every week in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, in their

51:15

Dera Square, their Chop Chop Square, they cut off arms and legs. And so we basically became the financier for the spreading of fundamental

51:24

Islam. And it gets worse from there. But we see that Jimmy Carter pulls the rug out from the shawl of Iran, lets the

51:33

Ayatollah take over in Iran. And then we see our president fires our ally

51:38

Mubarak in Egypt, and then helps the Muslim Brotherhood take over Egypt.

51:45

It was a miracle that the Egyptians drove Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood out. But then our president attacks

51:52

Libya. We were not at war with Libya. Qaddafi had not declared war on America, yet our president uses our military assets to take out the leader of a country.

52:02

Why? So the Muslim Brotherhood could take over Libya. And then we're moving the guns from Libya through Benghazi to Turkey and Syria to arm the

52:10

Muslim Brotherhood over there to take out Assad in Syria. And when Russia comes to Assad's rescue, these

52:16

Muslim Brotherhood people, armed by America, trained by America, go into Iraq and Afghanistan, call themselves

52:22

ISIS, and kill the Christians, and cut off their heads. And so we're paying for this.

52:27

We've trained them. Let me ask you a question about Barack Obama, because you have a lot of people on the right saying things like they believe

52:38

Barack Obama is really a Muslim, and that kind of a thing. And as much as I despise his beliefs and his policies and his leadership, it seems like a real contradiction in lifestyle and ideology to say that he's a

52:56

Muslim when he is one of the most liberal presidents, in fact, the most liberal president we've ever had, and believes in things that he would be executed for under Sharia law.

53:07

So why would people think that he's a Muslim? Why is he soft on Muslim, in your opinion?

53:13

Obviously, you don't know his mind and heart like the Lord does, but what's your opinion on that?

53:21

His affinity is undeniably with Islam. In other words, he has appointed

53:26

Muslims to all kinds of key positions in Homeland Security, the FBI, CIA, Pentagon. He has taken every opportunity to praise

53:35

Islam and deride and denigrate traditional Judeo -Christian values.

53:41

And then we see the very large number of Muslim immigrants he's bringing into the

53:47

United States. You see, in Islam, they have something called taqiyah, sacred lying, holy deceit, that it's considered a positive to be able to lie to the infidels to help spread

53:59

Islam. And so we see that his agenda clearly lines up with Islam.

54:06

Islam embraces homosexuality. Now, let me explain. In theory, they're against it, but in practice, almost every male in Pakistan, the statistics are their first experience with sex is being beat up by the local bully and getting raped.

54:23

So like the prisons in America, and it's a sign of dominance. It goes all the way back to the Kokex during the

54:28

Turkish, where they would conquer a Christian village, and they take the boys from the Christian families and sodomize them.

54:33

They call it the sodomy of the Turks. And it became boys for pleasure, women for children. I've talked to soldiers that have been in Afghanistan, and they said that they have to guard our

54:43

Muslim allies, which is some gang we picked out. And they marched the little, you know, the little boys are brought in on Thursday nights for their partying.

54:51

And Friday is their big mosque day, you know. And so I think America, because of our ignorance of history and culture, and this

55:00

RPM, religious, political, military system that we're being played, and we may have, you know, one of the concerns is, are we going to be experiencing an

55:11

Arab spring, simultaneous Ferguson's and Baltimore's all across America before the next election?

55:17

I don't know. But anyway, AmericanMinute .com is my website. Yes, and we urge you all to go to AmericanMinute .com.

55:25

And also I want to announce a couple of our sponsors who you may be able to get some of Bill's books and DVDs from, and that's

55:35

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service, who are sponsors of Iron Sharpens Iron. Their website is

55:40

CVBBS .com, CV for Cumberland Valley, BBS for Bible Book Service .com.

55:48

And also the Solid Ground Christian Books, their website is

55:54

Solid -Ground -Books .com, Solid -Ground -Books .com.

56:01

And by the way, Bill, I have had a couple of former military men who confirmed with me years ago the bizarre affinity that Islam has with homosexuality, and that's one of the reasons even why many of the

56:22

American soldiers in Afghanistan wear beards, because of the wanting to stand apart from the homosexuals who are attracted to men without facial hair and that kind of thing.

56:34

Very strange circumstances. And they only consider the homosexual as the male on the receiving end.

56:43

The ones doing it just consider themselves super macho. They can have four wives, they can have animals, they can have boys.

56:50

And so it's a whole different set of morals that we in the West are not used to. And it's coming into our school system, it's coming into our neighborhoods, and it's about time we educate ourselves.

57:02

And there is a movie called The Kite Runner, which I believe it may have even won an

57:08

Academy Award for, I don't know if it was Best Picture or something of that nature, but a really fascinating look into Sharia law and even the pedophilia that goes on in an

57:23

Islamic state. Pretty disturbing aspect of the film. But we thank you so much for being on our program today,

57:33

Bill Federer. In fact, I'm going to conclude the program in about a minute and a half, if you could.

57:40

One of our callers, or should I say one of our listeners, who emailed us a question said, what are we supposed to do as a country when people are coming here who have a desire to overthrow our nation?

57:53

People always talk about the melting pot of America and that we have freedom of religion and freedom of speech and we shouldn't discriminate against those of other beliefs and so on, but does that mean that even if somebody who has an ideology that wants to overthrow everything we stand for and who hates everything that we stand for, they should be to live on our soil?

58:16

I'll ask a question. If the Bloods and the Crips and the MS -13 gang started calling themselves a religion, should we let them take over neighborhoods and have their lynchings and their pimps and prostitutes?

58:33

If the KKK or the Mafia started calling themselves a religion, should we allow them to have their vigilante justice and their different styles of law?

58:44

If Hitler were to simply call Nazism a religion, should we say, oh, we can teach it in our schools that Jews are untermentioned?

58:53

In other words, at some point, we need to grow up and realize you cannot let a totalitarian, political, military, gang -style government come in and take over just because they wave a religion flag.

59:05

That's excellent. Excellent point. I love the way you concluded this segment of the program today and we look forward to having you back on,

59:15

Bill Federer. You are definitely a fountain of knowledge and that is not an exaggeration.

59:21

Thank you. I look forward to it. And once again, Bill Federer's website is AmericanMinute .com.

59:28

AmericanMinute .com. Don't go away because the program is not over. As many of you know, we're two hours long now and so we are going to be speaking with David Wood of AnsweringMuslims .com

59:40

and who is the host of Jesus or Muhammad on the Trinity Channel. And we're going to be continuing our discussion on the

59:48

Islamic threat to the United States. So don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages.

59:56

I'm James White of Alpha Omega Ministries. The New American Standard Bible is perfect for daily reading or in -depth study.

01:00:02

Used by pastors, scholars, and everyday readers, the NASB is widely embraced and trusted as a literal and readable

01:00:08

Bible translation. The NASB offers clarity and readability while maintaining high accuracy to the original languages which the

01:00:14

NASB is known for. The NASB is available in many editions like a topical reference Bible. Researched and prepared by biblical scholars devoted to accuracy, the new topical reference

01:00:24

Bible includes contemporary topics relevant to today's issues. From compact to giant print

01:00:30

Bibles, find an NASB that fits your needs very affordably at nasbible .com.

01:00:35

Trust, discover, and enjoy the NASB for yourself today. Go to nasbible .com.

01:00:40

That's nasbible .com. Tired of box store Christianity?

01:00:46

Of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert? Do you long for a more traditional and reverent style of worship?

01:00:53

And how about the preaching? Perhaps you've begun to think that in -depth biblical exposition has vanished from Long Island.

01:01:00

Well, there's good news. Wedding River Baptist Church exists to provide believers with a meaningful and reverent worship experience featuring the systematic exposition of God's Word.

01:01:10

And this loving congregation looks forward to meeting you. Call them at 631 -929 -3512 for service times.

01:01:18

631 -929 -3512. Or check out their website at wrbc .us.

01:01:26

That's wrbc .us. It's easy to put off saving for retirement, but it's just as easy to start.

01:01:38

Once you do, you'll feel more confident about your future. So where to begin? Start with Thriving Financial.

01:01:45

They'll help you define your financial goals and take realistic steps to help you reach them.

01:01:50

It comes down to making wise choices about money because even small steps add up.

01:01:57

Contact me, Mike Gallagher, at 717 -254 -6433.

01:02:04

Licensed agent producer of Thriving Financial. Marketing name Thriving Financial. Registered representative of Thriving Investment Management Incorporated.

01:02:13

Thriving .com. Lending faith, finances, and generosity.

01:02:25

That's the Thriving story. Welcome back.

01:02:39

This is Chris Arnzen and this is our second hour on Iron Sharpens Iron. We've been discussing Islam.

01:02:45

We started off with Bill Federer of AmericanMinute .com discussing his book on Islam, What Every American Needs to Know About the

01:02:55

Quran. Now we have for our second hour David Wood, a very dear friend of mine who is a

01:03:01

Christian apologist, a former atheist converted by the mercy of Christ to Christianity.

01:03:08

He is well known for debating both atheists and Muslims. He is the host of Jesus or Muhammad on the

01:03:17

Trinity Channel, which you can learn more about at TrinityChannel .com. He is also the operator of AnsweringMuslims .com.

01:03:26

It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back once again to Iron Sharpens Iron, David Wood. Hey, how's it going,

01:03:32

Chris? It's going great. Let's start off the program by talking about the very recent horrific event in Chattanooga, Tennessee, an assassination that occurred resulting in the deaths of five

01:03:51

U .S. servicemen. Others were wounded. If you could tell us about the perpetrator, as much as you know about the perpetrator of this horrific assassination on our own soil, and if you know whether or not this was just the work of a lone madman,

01:04:11

Muhammad Yusuf Abdul Aziz, or was he working in cooperation with ISIS to your knowledge, etc.,

01:04:22

if you could let us listeners know about this event, which actually occurred on Thursday, July 16th.

01:04:30

Well, police are still investigating Abdul Aziz, but the facts that have come out so far,

01:04:43

I mean, given the nature of the attack, you'd have to have an idea of what's going on already.

01:04:50

What we find very often is people try to point out other things that have happened in the life of the jihadists that would try to explain it.

01:04:58

I've seen over and over again over the years when there's some sort of one of these so -called lone wolf attacks, but his parents got divorced three years earlier.

01:05:07

That must have been what caused the Muslim who was shouting allahu akbar to go and kill all these people.

01:05:13

And with Abdul Aziz, it's been pointed out that in the past he'd had drug problems, that he'd had bouts of depression, that he had had suicidal thoughts.

01:05:25

But this would, of course, raise the question, well, why is it that a Muslim going through depression and having drug problems in the past somehow reacts to those things by going and killing a bunch of Marines?

01:05:39

And we don't need to be geniuses to figure this out. He was sending out plenty of text messages to people beforehand, giving them

01:05:50

Islamic passages. He was explaining that Muslims are called to jihad. He had recently visited a

01:05:57

Muslim country where I'm sure he got an excellent education there. One of his parents was once on the

01:06:05

FBI watch list for radicalism. And what all this draws attention to is, in Islam, if you are at some point not living as a good

01:06:19

Muslim, right, so if you have a drug problem or if you're doing anything you're not supposed to, the correct response is to try to redeem yourself in order to get in paradise, because, you know, you're, you know, apart from the mercy of Allah, the most important thing as far as what's going to happen to you in the afterlife is, you know, how your scales balance out.

01:06:42

And, you know, if you want your scales to come down in favor of paradise, you're supposed to wage jihad.

01:06:48

That's the golden ticket. And so if you're at all concerned about your future life and salvation, the one ticket you have is to go out and wage jihad.

01:07:02

And so whether, you know, whether this guy, he had apparently cleaned up his act, right?

01:07:08

So he had apparently gone through counseling and stuff and was clean. But so it's possible that, you know, his past is completely irrelevant.

01:07:17

And, you know, now that he's sort of turned over a new leaf, once his mind is all cleared up, once he's gone and, you know, spoken to some religious experts, he became clear and wanted to dedicate his life to jihad.

01:07:30

So it's possible that any of the things that are being pointed out by the media are totally irrelevant, and that this is just a jihad attack.

01:07:36

But granting that this guy is, you know, had problems in the past, and that he's still obsessed with these problems, and he's not over them, the solution in Islam is still jihad.

01:07:47

So if you're, you know, if you're a Muslim who has no problems, and you read the Muslim sources, and you understand that Allah commands you to wage jihad, and you're not going to go against Allah, well, then you're going to wage jihad.

01:07:59

And if you have all kinds of problems, the solution there is still jihad. So at the end of the day, it comes down to jihad.

01:08:11

Sorry about that. I've had my mic on mute, because your voice comes in much clearer when

01:08:17

I have my mic on mute for some reason. But I wanted to announce our email address for those of you listening to send in your own questions for David Wood.

01:08:27

It's chrisarnzen at gmail .com. That's C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

01:08:34

Please include at least your first name, the city and state where you live, and the country where you live if outside of the

01:08:41

U .S. And we look forward to hearing from you and your questions. How comfortable do you feel,

01:08:51

David, being an American citizen in regard to the threat of Islamic terrorism?

01:09:00

A lot of people, even when we hear about isolated events such as what occurred in Chattanooga, Tennessee, a lot of us who are spoiled by the safety and peace and protection of the

01:09:15

United States and our massive military, we really take for granted where we live.

01:09:22

And I know that you have spoken even with people in Homeland Security and so on, and perhaps know more than the average person.

01:09:30

Well, you definitely know more than the average person about the religion of Islam. But if you could comment on that, about the peace and safety that we should expect here in Islam, I mean in the

01:09:41

United States amidst the threat of Islam. Well, the situation is certainly getting worse, and that has a lot to do with ISIS.

01:09:57

Years in the past, you didn't have a remarkably successful group that's claiming to be a caliphate.

01:10:06

You had groups like al -Qaeda and other terrorist groups who had terrorist networks, but you didn't really have someone laying claim to being the caliph on a scale that would be recognized to the extent that ISIS has.

01:10:23

So many Muslims believe that in order to actually go out and wage terrorist acts, that you would have to have some sort of authority telling you to do so.

01:10:34

Your leader would have to be telling you that. Now, I don't actually believe that. I don't actually believe that you have to do that as a

01:10:41

Muslim. I believe you can read the Muslim sources and realize you're called to commit acts of terror and stuff and just go out and do it, and we've seen

01:10:47

Muslims do that in the past. But there is a tradition among Islamic scholars, some

01:10:53

Islamic scholars, that you have to be ordered to do so by a caliph.

01:10:59

And so what you have now is that you do have a caliph ordering people, and so a lot of people who otherwise wouldn't feel justified, people who would be worried, am

01:11:09

I doing the wrong thing by going out and committing an act of terror? Many of them are now looking at this and saying, wait a minute,

01:11:15

I'm being commanded by a caliph to go out and wage acts of terror. And so we've seen many of them.

01:11:23

I mean, just in recent months, many more have been stopped. So they keep catching people.

01:11:30

And, you know, the shooting in Chattanooga draws attention to, I think, the real problem.

01:11:36

And I think it's a matter of time before, you know, other sort of Muslims who decide to become terrorists really catch on to this.

01:11:45

Most of the people who get caught, it's because they're planning something big that involves bombs.

01:11:52

They don't know how to build bombs. And so they try to get help. And so they're going online, looking up bomb building.

01:11:58

They're contacting other Muslims. How do I build bombs? And, of course, the FBI catches on to this, right?

01:12:04

I mean, they've got eyes all over the place. They've got, you know, they've got people who have infiltrated mosques.

01:12:10

They've, you know, they're paying attention to what goes on online. If, you know, if there's some sort of, you know, red flag that comes up, they're watching you.

01:12:19

They're paying attention. And so these guys keep getting caught over and over and over again. And a lot of the young Muslims are still, they still have what you might call the al -Qaeda mindset.

01:12:30

You know, that the goal is some big spectacle like 9 -11. And the fact is, if you try to pull off a big spectacle like 9 -11, or even something much smaller, blowing up a subway, something like that, you're probably going to get caught nowadays, because everyone's watching.

01:12:47

What you can do, and what is much harder for the FBI to catch someone doing, is what we just saw in Chattanooga, you know, something like the

01:12:57

Fort Hood massacre, some of these sort of basically where you've got a guy or two guys, and they get a couple of guns, very easy to do, and you go and open fire.

01:13:06

It's much more difficult for the FBI to catch on. And so if we're talking about the safety of the average, you know, citizen here in the

01:13:12

United States, how safe are we? On the one hand, things are getting worse, right?

01:13:18

Things are getting worse as far as the number of people who are willing to carry out attacks. On the other hand, they're smaller scale attacks than what we find, you know, with a 9 -11 or something like that.

01:13:30

And so I would, I'm expecting to see these attacks increase, especially since, you know, since people are going to catch on that these are successful.

01:13:42

Hey, I can't pull off a 9 -11, but I can pull off a shooting outside some recruitment center, something like that.

01:13:50

Most of the attacks right now tend to focus on, you know, military or, uh, military or, um, you know, police or something like that.

01:14:01

Um, and, and the justification for attacking the military is there's a command in the Quran, chapter 5, verse 3.

01:14:06

There are, there are plenty of commands in the Muslim sources, but, uh, chapter 5, verse 33 of the Quran, um, says that if someone makes mischief in a

01:14:14

Muslim land, you know, the penalty is death. And so if you're a Marine, well, the U .S. military is making mischief in Muslim lands, and therefore you can kill them.

01:14:22

That was the justification for, uh, uh, for the Fort Hood massacre and for this, um, shooting in Chattanooga.

01:14:28

Um, but there's a, there's a deeper problem, and this is why Al -Qaeda was justified, according to Islam, in bringing down the

01:14:39

World Trade Center, even though there were many, most of the people who died were civilians. And the justification there is, um, in Islam, anyone who supports, who supports the military that's causing problems in a

01:14:51

Muslim land is under, is under the exact same penalty. So if the penalty for the

01:14:57

Marines is death, the, uh, the same penalty applies to anyone, anyone who financially supports the

01:15:06

Marines. But in the United States, that's taxpayers, right? Any taxpayer who pays the government, which then pays the military, is under the exact same sentence, which is death.

01:15:16

And so that's how Al -Qaeda, um, would look at this and say, no, we can, we can kill civilians, too. We're all paying taxes.

01:15:22

We'll kill all of you. You're all under a death penalty, according to Islam. Um, so right now the attacks are tending to focus on, uh, military and police.

01:15:31

Uh, but since they're increasing, yeah, I mean, I don't,

01:15:36

I don't want to say it because it's bad, but it looks like we're going to have mall shootings or sporting event shootings or something like that.

01:15:43

Now you have a personal experience in Dearborn, Illinois. Why don't you let our listeners know something about the climate in Dearborn, Illinois, where there are many

01:15:55

Muslims and where you yourself had your religious freedoms violated and were arrested at one point, but tell our listeners something about that.

01:16:06

And do you, your beliefs on whether or not you think that the

01:16:11

Islamic power over there is going to escalate and how prevalent is that type of situation here in the

01:16:20

United States to your knowledges in regard to a miniature Islamic state like Dearborn, Illinois?

01:16:28

Well, it's a, oh, that's a Dearborn, Michigan, by the way. I'm sorry. Dearborn, Michigan. I'm sorry.

01:16:34

Uh, well, Dearborn, Michigan. Yeah. That's a, about a, uh, about a third, about a third of the population of Dearborn is

01:16:41

Muslim. Uh, there it's interesting because it's predominantly Shia. It's predominantly Shia Muslims.

01:16:47

So these guys aren't taking any, uh, any, any orders from, from ISIS. And, uh, similar to what you'll find in a lot of, uh, in a lot of Muslim populations, there are plenty of dear

01:16:59

Muslims in Dearborn who are nice people. Um, I mean, I've actually sat on the porch with Muslims in Dearborn and had conversations with them for hours, uh, about Christianity and Islam.

01:17:11

So there are plenty of, uh, you know, there are plenty of great people that you'd like to talk to there. Uh, but at the same time, what the effect that Islam has on populations, uh, it isn't that it just turns every single person into a violent killer.

01:17:26

What it does is it increases the probability that people will support things like terrorism and so on.

01:17:32

So, and you can see this around the world. They've done polls in, uh, in Pakistan, Afghanistan and, uh,

01:17:37

Indonesia and so on. And what they find is not that every last person supports terrorist attacks or suicide bombings or something like that, but the percentages of people, uh, wherever you have, you know, a large population of Muslims, the percentages are always much higher than they are among non -Muslim populations.

01:17:56

And that's the problem. If you have a, you know, a city with where a third of the people there are

01:18:01

Muslim, yeah, you can point, you know, there are tons of nice people there, but you don't need a lot to, to have a terrorist there.

01:18:07

First of all, you only need one person to have, uh, to have a terrorist attack. Um, uh, you know, if you have several, you can do something a bigger, you can have several individual attacks.

01:18:20

So it's, uh, it's, there's no question it's going to be a problem. Now, even in Dearborn, which is, which is, uh, you know, a lot of Shia areas there, uh, after nine 11, it was, it was all over the news there in Dearborn that people were in the local, uh, you know, sandwich shops and things like that, uh, cheering, um, bunch of, a lot of people up there who are from the area told me that I said, right after nine 11, there's all this cheering and so on.

01:18:46

Uh, said it was all over the news, but it was all subsequently deleted. You can't find any of the footage from the people of Dearborn and these local places and these local shops and so on, uh, cheering because all of the, uh, all of the, uh, the news networks, uh, eventually sanitized.

01:19:02

You can't find any of this online, but there, there's no question. I mean, as someone who's been there as someone who's been threatened repeatedly from there, uh, yeah, it's, that's, that's really what's so bad is, is you have, you have, you know, a lot of nice people, but you also have people who are more sincere about following Allah's commands and that's not going to end well.

01:19:25

Yeah. And my apologies to the dear folks in Dearborn, Illinois for my, my faux pas there by mixing you up with Dearborn, Michigan.

01:19:34

I knew it was a suburb of Detroit and I, it was just a mishap because I know that there is a

01:19:39

Dearborn, Illinois, but, uh, obviously a totally different, uh, situation in Dearborn, Illinois.

01:19:47

Why don't you tell our, uh, listeners, because you did speak about this a number of times on the old

01:19:53

Iron Sharpens Iron, but tell our listeners who are unfamiliar with you and what happened in Dearborn, Michigan, uh, involving your arrest and so on.

01:20:04

Well, in, uh, in, in 2009, um, we, we went to, well,

01:20:10

I actually went there in 2008 and there's a, there's a large Arab festival there.

01:20:15

Um, it's, you know, it's not a Muslim festival. It's not a Muslim religious event. It's an Arab festival where they're, uh, you know, handing out, uh, you know,

01:20:24

Islamic food and there are rides and everything else. And, uh, there are Muslim preachers there setting up booths, um, inviting people to Islam.

01:20:31

There are Christians there who are setting up booths, uh, inviting people, uh, you know, explaining the gospel. And so, uh, there are

01:20:38

Christians who will go up there and in the area, um, go on the public sidewalks and, you know, talk, talk, talk to Muslims and ask if they'd like to hear the gospel.

01:20:48

And so in 2008, uh, I went there, it was really awesome. People were, uh, people were, um, were cool that, you know, there, there were little problems there, uh, where someone will get angry at a

01:20:58

Christian preacher because they're worried that the Christian preacher is going to convert some young people to Christianity or something. Uh, but overall it's very, uh, it was, it was, uh, it was okay.

01:21:07

And in 2009, the police, uh, changed the rules. They said, now you can't be on the public sidewalks around the festival, um, passing out any pamphlets or Bibles or anything like that, which was very disturbing.

01:21:21

It actually took years to, uh, to over, to overthrow this in court. Um, the

01:21:26

Christian lawyers won, but, um, it was because public sidewalks are protected, right?

01:21:32

That's a government, U .S. property, public sidewalks. Uh, we have free speech in the United States.

01:21:37

And so you can stand on public sidewalks. I can't walk into your home or walk into your private establishment and do whatever

01:21:42

I want or hand out, you know, Bibles, but on public sidewalks, that's protected. And so, but the, the, the police there said, you know, no handing out

01:21:51

Bibles or anything on the public sidewalks. And so this was very disturbing. And so people weren't allowed to, to hand things out.

01:21:58

And what happened was, uh, the, the Muslim, um, uh, guards there at the festival were actually using this to get

01:22:07

Christians who were just there speaking, who were just there having conversations with people, um, to get them in trouble.

01:22:12

What they would do is they would go and they would, uh, ask a Christian, Hey, can I see that Bible? And as soon as the

01:22:18

Christian went to hand over his Bible that the Muslim was asking for, someone would jump out with a camera, take the picture, then run to run to police and say, you see, we caught this person distributing a

01:22:27

Bible. Um, and so, uh, they were doing that. And my friend Nabil and I were there and, uh,

01:22:33

Nabil just walked up to a booth. The booth had a big sign, um, uh, telling people that, uh, uh, if they have questions about Islam, they can ask there.

01:22:43

Nabil started asking them about Surah nine, verse 29 of the Quran, which says, um, that you were supposed to violently subjugate unbelievers, says, uh, uh, fight those who do not believe in Allah.

01:22:54

And it specifically commands Muslims to violently subjugate Christians and Jews. So Nabil was asking about that question.

01:23:01

Um, and, uh, long story short, security started slapping us around because Nabil was asking a question there.

01:23:09

We got run out of, we got run out of the festival. And, uh, anyway, the police told us that next year there wouldn't be a problem.

01:23:16

They take care of it. And so when we went back to the festival, uh, we're walking around, things were fine. And, uh, as we're walking out of the festival, uh, a crowd of teenage

01:23:26

Muslims came up to Nabil. He's a former Muslim and they're asking, uh, asking him questions and they're asking great questions.

01:23:33

They're asking exactly the sort of questions we would want to hear from young Muslims. You know, they're asking, how can you believe

01:23:39

God, you know, came out of a woman? How can you believe in the Bible when it's corrupted? These are the questions that apologists want to answer because Muslims have been fed total nonsense about what we believe.

01:23:49

And so we want to answer these questions. Nabil is answering those questions for, uh, for a few minutes and police show up and put all of us in handcuffs, not, not the

01:23:58

Muslims, just the Christians. And they charge us with breach of peace. And they actually put us on a, through a five day trial trying to convict us of breaching the peace, you know, by, by answering questions of Muslims who came up there.

01:24:12

Uh, they were saying that we were, uh, you know, we're causing, you know, we're causing a disturbance and there was there, you know, there could be riots and there could be all these problems.

01:24:20

And police arrested us because of all these problems. When, uh, fortunately we had video, we were recording it and what you see in the video is

01:24:27

Nabil calmingly, calmly answering questions of young Muslims, um, answering their questions, praising them for their great questions, telling them how much he's enjoying this conversation with them.

01:24:39

And then police coming up and, uh, throwing us in jail. Fortunately we were, we were found not guilty and, uh, our lawyers sued them.

01:24:45

And, uh, and then we won that. The, uh, the gospel of Jesus Christ, uh, obviously is the answer to all conflicts.

01:24:56

Uh, there are other measures that people need to be involved in, obviously to live in a peaceful and orderly society and so on.

01:25:06

Uh, but, uh, what is, what is your, uh, main, what is the main reaction you have been getting in the, the, the years that you have been evangelizing the

01:25:19

Muslims? Uh, is it all or, or is the majority,

01:25:24

I should say, uh, just reactions of anger and hate or do you have some pensive, uh, reflection, uh, real thoughtful responses from many

01:25:39

Muslims that you encounter? And, uh, in fact, we know that from your previous interviews that one of these

01:25:47

Muslims at least has come to Christ, Nabeel Qureshi, who you just mentioned before through your evangelism that God used in his heart, uh, in your college days.

01:25:58

But what, what is the, uh, the dominant kind of reaction that you get? Well, the, the,

01:26:04

I mean, the dominant, the dominant reaction is, uh, you know, a lot of anger and name calling.

01:26:10

Um, unfortunately I don't, I don't think that's an accurate, uh, I don't think that's an accurate reflection of the total reaction because, you know, if, and this is,

01:26:19

I'm putting this out there as a warning for people who are going to get involved in ministry to Muslims.

01:26:25

Most of the, most of the Muslims you're going to get a reaction from are ones who are very hostile.

01:26:31

People who don't care that much or they're not really that dedicated to Islam. You know, they're not, maybe they won't pay attention.

01:26:37

They won't care much, right? So you don't hear a reaction from them. The ones that are very aggressive and angry over what you're saying, you're going to hear from them.

01:26:44

But it makes it seem like it makes it seem like lots of Muslims are giving you death threats and so on when it's, you know, it's, it just seems that way.

01:26:53

It just seems that way because, um, you know, there are Muslims who don't care a lot. And so they don't, they don't even care enough to respond.

01:27:00

And so it, people who are getting involved in this have to be careful because you get attacked so much and you get threatened so much.

01:27:07

And, you know, Muslims, you know, they say, they're going to kill me. And they're going to put my head on a pole outside the white house. And they're going to turn my wife into a sex slave.

01:27:14

And they're going to kill my kids. But you keep hearing this and you start, you know, you can get kind of angry inside. What is this?

01:27:19

What's this going on? Uh, you know, but you know, that, that is, that is a minority of people who are, who are responding to you.

01:27:25

Lots of people just, you know, they're, they're not paying, you know, they're, they're not paying attention or they're, they're responding quietly. With that said, so you're going to get a lot of hostile reactions if you do that.

01:27:36

With that said, I also get reactions pretty, fairly, pretty regularly that are in kind of three different categories.

01:27:44

And one is, you know, the former Muslim who actually becomes a

01:27:49

Christian. And, you know, this would be like someone like Nabil. I've even had a, you know, a little while back where someone who was, who would argue with me on my blog and defend

01:27:58

Islam. He, he, he came back a couple of years later and said, Hey, I don't know if you remember me. I used to comment on your blog, but I've left

01:28:05

Islam now. So you have people who, who leave

01:28:10

Islam and become Christians. You also have people who leave Islam, but they don't become

01:28:15

Christians, right? So some of them leave Islam and they become agnostics or atheists. So they agree with my criticisms of Islam.

01:28:23

They agree. There's no way Muhammad can be speaking for God, but they still hold onto a lot of their criticisms of Christianity.

01:28:30

And now they just don't know what to believe. So, so on the one hand, you've got people who leave Islam and become

01:28:35

Christians. On the other, you have people who leave Islam and don't become Christians. They just leave

01:28:41

Islam. But actually the most common, as far as, you know, the, the, the, the changes of mind, more common than those are people who were considering converting to Islam, but then didn't.

01:28:56

I hear from those very regularly. It's people who said, Hey, I grew up and my friends were

01:29:02

Muslims. I grew up in an area with a lot of Muslims and my friends were telling me about Islam and I was thinking about converting.

01:29:09

But when I started looking into it, I started looking into it. I started Googling it. I found, you know, your videos or your website, and there's no way

01:29:18

I'm going to become a Muslim now. Thank you for, uh, thank you for helping me. Um, thank you for helping me with, with that and to see what

01:29:24

Islam really is. And so, uh, and, and, and that's, that's an aspect that really gets ignored in a ministry, right?

01:29:30

You think of ministry, we're going out, we're going to go preach the gospel to Muslims and see who converts. Not really paying lots of attention to people who are in the churches who don't have a strong foundation and why they believe what they believe.

01:29:41

And then they go out and they've got Muslim friends who are blasting the deity of Christ, the reliability of the

01:29:47

Bible and so on, and they have no foundation. And so a lot of these people convert and guess what?

01:29:53

Some of these guys become terrorists. Uh, we've seen it. We've seen it in recent months in the, in the news of some of these converts who leave were raised in a, in a, you know, sort of weakish

01:30:03

Christian home, um, convert to Islam after being challenged by some of their Muslim friends and then actually become terrorists.

01:30:12

And so, uh, people, people are neglecting that, that, uh, one kids need a young people need a strong foundation in the basics of Christianity.

01:30:21

And two, if we know that there is another religion that is aggressively preaching and trying to share their view, people need to be, uh, need to be ready for them.

01:30:32

We've got to go to a break right now. If you have a question for David Wood and you'd like to have us read it for David on the air and have him answer it on the air, this is a live program.

01:30:42

Our email address is chrisarnsonatgmail .com chrisarnsonatgmail .com.

01:30:48

And we welcome questions from Christians, Muslims, or people of any other religions or lack thereof.

01:30:56

Even if you're a Sweden Borgianist, we look forward to hearing from you with your questions and don't go away.

01:31:03

We'll be right back with David Wood on the Islamic threat to the United States. Hi, I'm Mike Gallagher.

01:31:13

Support for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio comes from Thriven Financial, where faith and finances connect for good.

01:31:20

Thriven helps its members be wise with money and live generously. Nearly two and a half million

01:31:26

Christians count on Thriven to help them protect their families and strengthen the communities where they live, work, and worship.

01:31:33

To learn more about what makes Thriven unique, contact me at 717 -254 -6433.

01:31:40

We know we were made for so much more than ordinary life.

01:31:48

Lending faith, finances, and generosity. That's the Thriven story. We were made to thrive.

01:32:04

Lynbrook Baptist Church on 225 Earl Avenue in Lynbrook, Long Island is teaching God's timeless truths in the 21st century.

01:32:11

Our church is far more than a Sunday worship service. It's a place of learning where the scriptures are studied and the preaching of the gospel is clear and relevant.

01:32:18

It's like a gym where one can exercise their faith through community involvement. It's like a hospital for wounded souls where one can find compassionate people and healing.

01:32:26

We're a diverse family of all ages. Enthusiastically serving our Lord Jesus Christ. In fellowship, play, and together.

01:32:33

Hi, I'm Pastor Bob Walderman and I invite you to come and join us here at Lynbrook Baptist Church and see all that a church can be.

01:32:39

Call Lynbrook Baptist at 516 -599 -9402. That's 516 -599 -9402 or visit lynbrookbaptist .org.

01:32:48

That's lynbrookbaptist .org. Introducing 1031

01:32:54

Sermon Jams. Sermon Jams. But now for the good news that sounds like sweet music in the hell -bound sinner's ears, especially if you're like me and you know that you don't need

01:33:09

Romans 3 to remind you of how wicked you are. If you would like to learn more about 1031

01:33:14

Sermon Jams, visit us at our website at 1031SermonJams .com or follow us on Twitter or Facebook.

01:33:21

It's about God and His glory and the gospel. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzin and if you've just tuned in to Iron Sharpens Iron, our guest right now for the second hour is

01:33:31

David Wood of answeringmuslims .com. He is also the host of Jesus or Muhammad of the

01:33:38

Trinity Channel and their website is trinitychannel .com and we are discussing the

01:33:44

Islamic threat to the United States. And just out of curiosity,

01:33:49

David, I know we already mentioned Nabeel Qureshi who became a Christian. In your personal ministry of evangelism, have you seen others come to Christ?

01:34:00

Obviously we know that it is God who gives the increase and that we just plant in water, but what has the fruit been that you've seen over the years?

01:34:11

I don't have any specific numbers, but it would be in the dozens of the people.

01:34:18

Wow, that's impressive. Yeah, so I'm hoping it gets to hundreds and thousands and so on, but it's definitely at least in the dozens that I've heard from.

01:34:28

Well, praise God for that. How about the atheists on the other side of the coin? You mean atheists who leave atheism?

01:34:35

Yes, we actually get saved by the blood of Christ that you've witnessed through your evangelism and so on.

01:34:42

Not nearly as many because I haven't spent as much time in that over the past about I guess 10 years or so.

01:34:50

So yeah, that would be... Well, not as many.

01:34:58

Yeah, I'm guessing between 10 and 20, and they're usually people like my wife was an agnostic when

01:35:06

I met her and so on. Wow, well still that's very impressive to see that experienced in the life of one

01:35:15

Christian. That's very impressive. One of the things that all of us who live in this country, in fact, not only our country and other parts of the world where they witness

01:35:28

Islamic terrorism, we have been disturbed by what appears to be deafening silence from moderate

01:35:38

Muslims or peaceful Muslims on the atrocities that are taking place in the name of Muhammad and the name of Islam.

01:35:48

Our mutual friend Dr. James R. White knows of Islamic clerics and apologists who are very opposed to this kind of thing.

01:35:57

And again, I know that you don't perhaps have any percentages that you could give us, but the thing that disturbs us is that it doesn't seem to be an equal outcry against Muslim atrocities against non -Muslims as there is from the

01:36:16

Muslims on the far right that have huge demonstrations with thousands of people for things like cartoons.

01:36:25

You don't seem to have an equal number or even nearly the same size audience or the same size constituents of Islam complaining or protesting or demanding repentance from their own people.

01:36:41

It just seems that way. Do you think that's largely due to fear of their own lives, etc.?

01:36:48

If you could comment on that. I don't actually. I don't think it's because of fear.

01:36:54

In other words, when Muslims in the West aren't really speaking out against ISIS, I don't think it's because they're necessarily scared of ISIS.

01:37:04

It just doesn't seem to upset them as much as you would expect it to upset people.

01:37:10

And I think you can learn a lot about a religion by what really upsets its followers. And you're absolutely correct.

01:37:16

If Israel drops a bomb on an area of Palestine, there will be protests all over this country right here in the

01:37:26

United States on college campuses, young Muslims going out, burning the

01:37:32

Israeli flag and so on. And that will really get them excited and hyped up. Well, where are these same young Muslims when

01:37:39

ISIS is slaughtering even other Muslims, other Muslims who just aren't diehard

01:37:47

Salafis? And you don't hear a peep out of them. If you ask them, yes, many of them will say, oh, yeah, we condemn that.

01:37:53

That's not real Islam. But it just doesn't upset them. It doesn't upset them nearly as much as drawing a cartoon or really

01:38:03

Israel even existing. It's really there. So you can just look at them and say, you can see by their reaction to various things what upsets them.

01:38:12

And if anything involves, I mean, just think about some of the some of the atrocities, right? You're talking about, like, if you're talking about Afghanistan, there are people who are going up throwing acid in little girls' faces for trying to go to school.

01:38:27

There are people poisoning schools. There are people who are gunning down, you know, kids in schools.

01:38:34

And you won't hear anything beyond a, you know, the, you know, a comment by Kerr saying and we condemn this attack.

01:38:44

You don't hear a peep about it. If Israel or the United States or anyone else were to do the exact same thing on a much smaller scale, you'd see a massive reaction.

01:38:54

And so there is this real tendency to see anything that's done by Muslims, no matter how horrific, as just not as bad, not nearly as bad as a non -Muslim doing it when, you know, as far as I'm concerned, it would be the exact reverse.

01:39:10

If I saw a Christian going around killing and slaughtering, I'd be much more upset about that than I am about a

01:39:16

Muslim going around killing and slaughtering. I would be much more horrified if someone in my church did something something like that than I would some random atheist or Muslim or something like that.

01:39:26

And but in Islam, it's just it's just totally reversed. If a Muslim does it, it's just Muslims aren't going to get that upset over it.

01:39:32

Now, in your conversations with Muslims, both during public moderated debates and your just typical day to day street evangelism, or even some of the responses that you may get from the audience of the

01:39:48

Trinity Channel, which seems to focus on the the heretical beliefs and dangerous beliefs of Islam.

01:39:58

What is the average person saying about that, about their lack of anger or righteous indignation, etc?

01:40:06

What are you typically hearing about that? Why are you so silent? You know, what do they say? What you'll get is, hey, you know, we're not responsible for that.

01:40:17

So what do you expect us to do? But you know, that's the problem. If this were someone else, if this were the

01:40:23

United States or Israel or someone that that they really don't like, if doing even a fraction of what

01:40:30

ISIS is doing, there would be massive international protests and a global uproar.

01:40:38

But we just don't see it. We just don't see it. And we never see it. I mean, what have you seen something over, you know, over a terrorist attack, no matter how bad.

01:40:47

And they're daily. I mean, thousands of people were killed during Ramadan by Muslims.

01:40:53

And where's the outrage? It's just it's not there. So again, I think you can learn a lot about a religion by what tends to upset its adherents.

01:41:03

Yeah. And we have to remind our listeners, aren't the vast majority of people who are murdered and massacred by Muslims, other

01:41:10

Muslims? Oh, yeah. That's absolutely true. Most of the people who get killed by ISIS are either

01:41:19

Shias who are just they're they're in trouble from, you know, from the from the get go, because they're they're, you know,

01:41:24

ISIS or Sunnis. But even Sunnis who refuse to get on board with with ISIS program with the program of ISIS, they're they're in trouble, too.

01:41:31

And this is this is true, you know, but even ISIS aside, you know, you can go back to al Qaeda and so on.

01:41:38

A lot of the victims are going to be people who just don't happen to agree with them.

01:41:44

And this actually goes back to the first generation of Muslims, one of the fruits of Muhammad dealing with every problem through violence is that that his followers picked up on that.

01:41:56

And after he died, there's a leadership dispute. And you end up having some people side take the side of Abu Bakr and, you know, the rightly guided caliph.

01:42:07

And some automatically go with, you know, say, hey, it has to be a relative of Muhammad. But by the time you get to Ali, Aisha, Muhammad's wife, it was his child child, right during his lifetime.

01:42:21

But Aisha marches an army against Ali. Aisha is the daughter of Abu Bakr. She marches an army against Ali.

01:42:28

And about 10 ,000 Muslims died. But those were both, you know, on both sides, there were

01:42:33

Muslims who had fought alongside of Muhammad against the pagans during Muhammad's lifetime. And now they're slaughtering each other over disputes about how to handle various situations.

01:42:44

And the problem is, Muhammad was asked, what's the best generation of Muslims? And he said, the first generation of Muslims is the best generation of Muslims.

01:42:53

And by the way, this is where the term Salafi comes from. The Salaf refers to the first couple of generations of Muslims.

01:43:00

Muhammad said that the best generation of Muslims is the first generation. The next best is the second. And the third best is the third generation of Muslims.

01:43:08

So Salafi, the heart of the Salafi movement is, if you want to do or practice something, it has to be traced back to those first three generations of Muslims, because they're the best.

01:43:18

You can't invent anything that would go against them. And so the best generation of Muslims, according to Muhammad, is the first generation.

01:43:27

But the first generation almost annihilated itself through violence and killing and slaughtering each other.

01:43:32

Muslim killing Muslim. And so if you're a Muslim today and you say, oh, I can't believe, you know, ISIS is killing fellow

01:43:39

Muslims and so on. And we hear this on the news. We hear this over and over again. We heard this from President Barack Obama.

01:43:45

David Cameron says that ISIS can't be Muslim because they're killing Muslims. That's the problem of how clueless these guys are.

01:43:51

The first generation of Muslims, Muhammad's own companions, were killing other Muslims.

01:43:57

What do you mean you can't kill Muslims? The best generation, according to the prophet of Islam, killed

01:44:03

Muslims. And so what do you mean here? And so what you find is that ISIS is doing exactly what the first generation of Muslims did.

01:44:12

And we're saying, hey, they can't be Islamic because of this. But, you know, at the end of the day, the more seriously people are going to take

01:44:20

Islam, the more they're going to look back to that first generation and the more Muslim violence we're going to see.

01:44:29

But, you know, that is a huge problem as well. When we're criticizing

01:44:34

Islam, people say, oh, you hate Muslims. Look, if you really care about Muslims, you will be criticizing

01:44:40

Islam left and right to get them out of that bondage that's going to eventually lead to more and more death.

01:44:49

And what are the, I mean, obviously we don't have that much time left, so you can't go into great depth, but what are some of the reasons

01:44:56

Muslims are killing other Muslims? What are the differences in doctrine between the different branches of Islam that would cause them to want to massacre one another?

01:45:08

Well, I mean, if you look back to that first generation, if Aisha marched an army against Ali just because she didn't like the way

01:45:21

Ali had dealt with the death of Uthman, Uthman was killed, Aisha didn't think he would, he'd crack down on the people responsible hard enough, so I'm marching an army against you.

01:45:31

But think about that, right? There's only two possibilities here. Either she is doing it specifically because of that, she doesn't like the way he handled that specific situation, she disagrees with his handling of that situation, and so I'm going to march an army against you, we're all going to slaughter each other, or it's really because she's

01:45:49

Abu Bakr's daughter and, you know, the leadership needs to be traced that way.

01:45:55

Either way, anyone who takes that situation seriously, anyone who looks back to that first generation and says, we need to imitate that, that's endless problems.

01:46:04

If she's going out and fighting and slaughtering just because they follow a different leader, then guess what?

01:46:10

Anyone who's a Shia needs to be killed by Sunnis, and anyone who's a Sunni needs to be killed by Shias, because they're following a leader who should not be leading.

01:46:19

And so if that's the case, that's bad enough. If she's just saying, I don't agree with the way you handled this situation, therefore a lot of people are going to have to die,

01:46:29

I mean, think about that. Anytime you're saying, hey, I don't think this leader should have done that, I think you should have done this, well, great, let's just start killing and slaughtering each other until it's, you know, this big pile of bodies.

01:46:39

But, you know, that goes back to Muhammad, to the idea that you settle, you know, problems and disagreements and disputes through violence, and the other problem, the other side of that problem that you set, you know, you solve disputes and disagreements through violence, the other side of that problem is there are so many, there are so many qualifications in Islam as to what makes a true

01:47:06

Muslim. You can always find something to point to another person and say, you're not a true Muslim. So, for instance, in chapter 4, verse 65 of the

01:47:14

Quran, Muslims are told that they have no real faith, they have no real faith until they make

01:47:20

Muhammad judge in all disputes and submit to Muhammad's decisions with full submission.

01:47:26

So part of submitting to Allah is submitting to Muhammad fully. Now, think about that.

01:47:32

If part of being a true Muslim is submitting fully to Muhammad's decisions, and if you don't completely submit to Muhammad's decisions,

01:47:41

I get to kill you as an apostate because you have no real faith, you're not a real Muslim. That's why anytime you have a difference of sources, a difference in leadership, a difference in what scholars you follow, if your sources are different from mine,

01:47:53

I look at my sources, right? So Sunnis and Shias, they have different, they both don't believe in the Quran, but they have different hadith texts.

01:48:00

Well, if I've got a command from Muhammad and it says you need to do this, and you have a different command of Muhammad because you have a different source, well, we need to start killing each other because neither one of us is actually fully submitting to Muhammad's decisions.

01:48:14

And so, you know, you have these commands all over the place, you're not a real Muslim if you do this, you're not a real Muslim if you do that, which in Muhammad's time worked out very well because he's really scaring people into, you know, mindless obedience.

01:48:25

But the result is, you know, down the road, the result is, hey, we settle our disagreements through violence, and it's very easy to point to another

01:48:34

Muslim and say, you're not doing this that Muhammad said you should, we have disagreements about sources and so on, and how are we going to resolve this?

01:48:40

Well, we resolve it the same way the first generation of Muslims, the best generation of Muslims did, we start killing.

01:48:47

Now, the most peaceful group, I believe, amongst

01:48:53

Islamic sects are the Ahmadiyya, and forgive me if I'm mispronouncing that name.

01:49:00

How can they get away with being faithful to the Quran in their minds and the

01:49:05

Hadith, and yet be a religion of peace? And if they are a religion of peace, why aren't they a louder voice in protest against the

01:49:18

Islamic terrorism and barbaric behavior? Yeah, well, the

01:49:23

Ahmadis are, they're the only, I think the only way you can really get an entire peaceful sect of Islam is the way it happened in the

01:49:35

Ahmadis. They actually believe in another leader who came after Muhammad, and his interpretations of the

01:49:43

Islamic text are authoritative for them. So, in Islam, in Islam, Muslims believe in the second coming of Jesus.

01:49:53

Jesus is going to return, he's going to, he's going to judge, he's going to kill all pigs, he's going to break all crosses, he's going to slaughter

01:49:59

Christians and Jews and so on. So, Muslims believe in the second coming of Jesus. The Ahmadis believe that Jesus already returned.

01:50:08

They believe that he came as a man named Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, so that's where they get

01:50:13

Ahmadiyya. So, they believe that he, Jesus, already returned, and they justify this.

01:50:20

They say, well, look, look at, you know, the second coming of Elijah. Elijah is going to come. Well, how did he come? As another person, as John the

01:50:27

Baptist, right? Not as Elijah descending out of heaven. And so they say he came back as a person. And so that's the second coming of Jesus.

01:50:34

He came back as Mirza Ghulam Ahmad. Not the same person, but, you know, he's coming like in the spirit and power of Christ the way that, you know,

01:50:41

John the Baptist came in the spirit and power of Elijah. And so they believe that a person, that Mirza Ghulam Ahmad's interpretations of Islamic sources is authoritative.

01:50:53

So, if he says, hey, you don't get to go around killing and slaughtering, you don't get to wage terror, well, it doesn't matter.

01:50:59

It doesn't matter if you read the Muslim sources, and it says very clearly, fight those who do not believe in Allah.

01:51:06

That's not your final authority. It's your leader's interpretations of those passages.

01:51:13

And so, if you have another authority telling you what to believe, then you can interpret these things as peaceful, because you have no choice.

01:51:20

You have a higher authority of your interpretations. But, you know, that would never fly anywhere else in Islam, and that's why

01:51:28

Ahmadis are targets, especially in Pakistan and Indonesia. Ahmadis get killed for having another authority after Muhammad.

01:51:38

But, as far as them speaking out, it's actually in the West. It's a very sad situation, but it's much more common for Ahmadis to criticize people like me, who are drawing attention to what

01:51:50

Islamic sources teach, than it is for them to go after, you know, Sunnis, and I don't know why this is, because you would expect, hey, guys,

01:52:00

I'm condemning the same sort of thing that you're condemning here, right? I'm condemning the terrorism, and you guys are some of the victims, right?

01:52:06

Ahmadis are regular victims of terrorism in Pakistan, in Indonesia, and anywhere else you have a large group of Ahmadis.

01:52:14

So, we should all be working together here to condemn this sort of thing, but they're much more concerned about the reputation of Islam.

01:52:22

And so, you hear them saying Islam is a religion of peace, but it's usually directed towards people who are criticizing

01:52:28

Islam, not as much toward people who are actually going out and killing in the name of Islam. And would they be a tiny percentage, the

01:52:35

Ahmadis, would they be a tiny percentage of Islam? Yeah, yeah, yeah, there would be a couple of percent at most.

01:52:43

They boast much larger numbers. I remember when, you know, back in the day when I would hear that there were millions of people converting every year, and I was like, well, look, if as many people, as you're saying, are converting, were actually converting and becoming

01:52:58

Ahmadis, you guys would be dominant in the world. So, they tend to fudge their numbers and stuff, but it's a very small percentage.

01:53:08

And what would be the majority of Muslims in the United States who have immigrated here, or even who have been here for quite a number of years, born and raised here, what sect would they predominantly be from?

01:53:24

Up in the Dearborn area, that would be mostly Shias, and you have various neighborhoods and so on, but it would still mostly be

01:53:32

Sunnis. And they are a violent sect outside of the

01:53:38

United States. Well, I mean, Sunnis, that's like between 80 and 90 percent of Muslims worldwide, so we can't just say that, you know, that's a violent sect.

01:53:48

I would say if they take their sources seriously, that would certainly be a violent sect, but it's like anything else.

01:53:56

You have kind of a spectrum, right? You have people who don't care at all, you have people who only show up, you know, like similar to Christmas and Easter, Christians who show up to church twice a year.

01:54:07

You have those, and then you basically have a spectrum. You have, you know, if you imagine Sam Harris, the atheist, points this out, but he points out that, and he's right on this, that you can imagine concentric circles, right?

01:54:19

You have the inner circle, this inner, you know, smallest circle. These are, you know, like the

01:54:24

ISIS -type people, and they exist here, but, you know, there are, it's a small portion of them.

01:54:31

But outside of that, you have people who wouldn't support ISIS, but they would hold some, you know, some seriously disturbing views.

01:54:39

They would still believe that, you know, apostates should be killed. They would still believe that, you know, critics of Islam should be killed.

01:54:45

And then outside of that, you have people who are not as strict. They would say, no, you don't do these things now, but, you know, eventually, if we were able to establish

01:54:54

Sharia, then we would do those things. And so, you know, you have all kinds of different groups, but it all comes down to how seriously you take the

01:55:04

Muslim sources. And it seems, and you would know better than I would, but it seems that there is some kind of solidarity between the warring factions of Islam when there is an act of terrorism in the

01:55:18

United States or abroad. They seem to have an agreement that this is a wonderful thing, no matter which sect or which religious ideology within their framework has perpetrated the event.

01:55:33

Am I right on that? Oh, no question. And this actually ties in with what we were talking about earlier, and that you can, you know, you can learn a lot about a religion by what tends to upset its adherents.

01:55:43

Sunnis will never be as upset about Shias or, you know, Shias will never be as upset about Sunnis as either one of them would be about, you know,

01:55:50

Israel or the United States doing something. And so it's always, it's always, hey, we will fight each other.

01:55:57

It's kind of like brothers, right? You know, you know, two people who are brothers, they might fight all the time.

01:56:03

If someone else comes along, you're not going to beat up my little brother, right? I don't care how much I fight with my little brother, all, you know, if someone else comes along, you're not messing with my little brother.

01:56:13

And it's kind of that, you know, Sunnis and Shias, hey, kill each other, kill each other, kill each other. But if someone else comes along, then, you know, that other person definitely has to pay.

01:56:24

We have an anonymous listener who says, do you think that you are exaggerating the fear that Americans should have?

01:56:34

Isn't this a bit of fear mongering? We have such a powerful military. I cannot even fathom that within our lifetime or ever in the future that Islam would dominate the

01:56:48

United States. So if you could comment on that. Chris, did you hear me say that Islam will dominate the

01:56:54

United States? No, I did not hear you say that. It's never crossed my mind that Islam will dominate the

01:56:59

United States. All we talked about when we actually talked about this was terrorist attacks increasing. And that is just a statistical fact, right?

01:57:07

Terrorist attacks are increasing. If you look at the number of these terrorist attacks, people walking up and shooting people, people walking up and killing a police officer or something like this, those numbers are higher now than they used to be.

01:57:20

So the attacks are increasing and they increased over the last year because there's ISIS and they're calling for them.

01:57:27

Well, guess what? ISIS is growing. It's growing in popularity. It's growing in numbers and they're calling for attacks.

01:57:34

And so this isn't fear mongering to say these attacks are going to increase and we'll have a repeat show a year from now to see whether I'm right and that the attacks are going to increase.

01:57:45

This isn't saying that the United States is going to be conquered. I don't think that Islam is capable of conquering the

01:57:50

United States because they're so technologically backwards because of this constant retrograde force of pulling everyone back to the seventh century.

01:58:00

That doesn't mean that Islam is not a danger, right? Anytime you got people who really want to blow up buildings and things like that, that's a threat.

01:58:09

And I live in New York City, right? There's been what at the statistic a couple of years ago was that there were 18 foiled attacks since 9 -11, right?

01:58:20

Foiled terrorist attacks. These people trying to blow up trains and so on. Now that statistic's a couple of years old.

01:58:26

So somewhere in the 20s of foiled terrorist attacks in the city I live in. It's not irrational or fear mongering to say that there's a problem here that more people are going to die and that we need to be aware of it so that we can get to the heart of the problem which is

01:58:41

Muhammad told his followers to violently subjugate the world to commit acts of terror. And we have to expose those teachings as false because when people take them seriously we get dead bodies.

01:58:55

And of course the United States is not the only nation in the globe. There are countries that are being overrun ideologically by Islam everywhere we look.

01:59:05

But if you could, very briefly in 20 seconds, give a last word regarding the gospel of Jesus Christ to our listeners.

01:59:14

Well, I mean, you know, the gospel of Jesus Christ is that we are not righteous enough to be in the presence of God.

01:59:23

Our righteousness is as filthy rags. And so if we want a righteousness that can allow us to be in the presence of God, that righteousness has to come from God, not from us.

01:59:33

And the gospel is a message about how God gives us this righteousness through Jesus Christ. Other systems, especially