December 15, 2016 Show with Tim Chaffey & K. Marie Adams on “Noah: Man of Destiny”

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Now here's our host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming.

This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 15th day of December 2016, and God willing, we are going to be joined by Tim Chaffee, author, apologist and blogger at MidwestApologetics .org

and current content manager for The Ark Encounter, as well as his co -author,

Kay Marie Adams, author, graphic designer and volunteer for several ministries dedicated to rescuing girls from modern -day slavery, who are both going to discuss,

God willing, Noah, Man of Destiny, but we have not yet received a phone call from them, so hopefully that will happen within the next few minutes, or hopefully within the next few seconds, and that may be them now.

And it is my honor and privilege to welcome you to Iron Sharpens Iron for the very first time,

Tim Chaffee and Kay Marie Adams. Hello. Hello, how are you?

Doing all right. Okay, yeah, we almost were thinking that you were not going to be joining us today.

Oh, yeah, I think we had our signal dropped. We thought you were going to be calling us. Great. Well, I already introduced where you two are from, and before I go any further,

I'd like to introduce both of you to Charlie Liebert, who is my co -host today.

Charlie Liebert is a Christian apologist and founder of 6daycreation .com.

He is the author of two books with Christian themes. The first is Always Be Ready to Give an

Answer, which teaches a Christian evangelism strategy that gets to witnessing every time an unbeliever asks you a question, and his second book is

Answers for the Hope that is in You, provides answers to over 100 questions that Christians are commonly asked by families and friends, and they can both be found on the web at yourchristiananswers .com,

yourchristiananswers .com, and his third book is going to be published next year titled Without Three Miracles, Darwin's Dead, which shows that science proves evolution is impossible.

But it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back as my co -host, Charlie Liebert. Thank you,

Chris. It's great to be here. And keep speaking as I had your mic off, I think. It's great to be here.

I really enjoy working with you in these shows. Yeah, sorry about that. I had you muted for a second there.

But first of all, before we even get into the theme of Noah, Man of Destiny, Tim, let's start with you and find out about your personal testimony of salvation, the religious background of your upbringing, if any, and how you came to know

Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior. Sure. I was raised in a

Christian home, and I've always been a believer.

I know that sounds strange to a lot of people, but from my earliest memories, I've always known that I'm a sinner, that I need

Jesus Christ as my Savior, that He died on the cross for my sins, and that He rose from the dead.

So I can never pinpoint a day when I can say, well, this is the day that I was saved.

I remember going forward in church and professing my faith. That was when

I was just before I was eight years old. But I really can't pinpoint a day.

Yeah, that seems to be the case in my experience when I meet and speak with a lot of folks who were raised from infancy in Christian homes, especially if they had very godly parents and perhaps even had a father who was a pastor.

But when you are raised from infancy, and God, now He doesn't always do this, obviously.

He doesn't always spare the children of believers from wandering into scandalous sin, but that very often does not happen, meaning that God very often does prevent the children of believers from doing that.

And so in cases like that, there can be no identifiable radical change of opinion or mind or heart that one can remember, because they just always remember loving

Jesus and following Him. Right, and so my testimony has been exciting at times, and I'm thankful for that.

Amen. And I don't know if there is something you could do to... You sounded a little bit muffled there.

I'm not sure what kind of phone line you're using, but anything you can do to speak closer to the microphone or the mouthpiece or whatever you have there would be appreciated.

Okay, does that sound better like this? Yeah, that sounds better. And we have

Kay Marie Adams. Tell us about yourself as well. Yeah, well, similar to Tim, I came to know the

Lord when I was five. My mom took me to a Bible study fellowship class, and I remember them going over the curriculum and showing images of Jesus dying on the cross and just going, oh, that makes sense.

And so from there, just God's increased my walk with Him and been faithful to me every single year to continue to have me growing closer.

Great. Well, Tim, tell us a little bit about MidwestApologetics .org,

where you're blogging. Yeah, it's a ministry that I started back in 2005 before I ever came on board with Answers in Genesis.

And I used it to do a lot of writing, and I started speaking throughout

Wisconsin where I was living at the time. And then it continued to develop, and when

I came on board with Answers in Genesis back in 2010, it took a little bit of a backheat, but I still try to maintain it and update it as regularly as I can.

And I still go out speaking on my own quite a bit as well. And obviously we want to know more about what the

ARC Encounter is. Yeah, the ARC Encounter, how long do we want to spend on that?

Because we could talk all day about it. You could give as much of a detailed description as you'd like.

All right, well, both Kay Marie and I had the opportunity to work on that project. I'm the content manager there, so my responsibility was to develop or at least oversee the development of all of the teaching points and write all of the assignments.

But the ARC Encounter is a full -sized reconstruction or replica of Noah's Ark that's according to the dimensions given in Scripture.

So it is 510 feet long, 82 feet wide, and 51 feet tall. In other words, it's just really big.

And it's just a massive structure, but it's a beautiful one as well.

Anybody who's been there is blown away by the quality of the construction. It's the largest timber frame structure in the entire world.

And just walking through each of the exhibits and the design, the talent that the designers have and the things that they created are just incredible.

And, of course, the writing has been well. And do you have, like, tour guides and people who are knowledgeable of the

Bible who tell the tourists or the visitors all about the story?

Or do you have theatrical performances of the Noah's story? Or how does that work? They're all supposed to be self -guided tours, but I know that I've given multiple tours.

When there's groups coming in, if they contact me, I'll go down there and be able to do that. But it's designed to be self -guided, but we do have different ways that we present the information.

Right now there's not a theatrical performance, but I think that's something that is planned for next summer.

If everything goes on schedule, we'll have what they call an animal act as a parade where the animals will load on the ark, and then

Noah will have this message. But I don't know exactly when it's coming. Tim, I've been to the

Creation Museum and I know what the exhibits there are, which are quite spectacular. Are these the same type of exhibits in terms of the animatronics and things like that?

Yeah, but they're even updated a little more. For example, we have an animatronic Noah who looks much more lifelike in movies.

It looks quite realistic, not completely realistic. You can tell they're animatronic. The Noah that we have at the

Creation Museum is about 7 or 8 years old. He's smaller and more methodical.

He can't speak as much as what the one at the ark does. It's much more natural. So the technology has improved just in that amount of time.

And I heard that there's a rabbit that has sunglasses and plays the drums. No, that's a commercial.

I'm thinking of a battery commercial. I'm sorry. I didn't remember that exhibit.

Well, I'm sure that we will be doing more programs featuring discussions about this exhibit.

I am hoping and praying that the Lord enables me eventually to get there myself. I have never been there.

Nor have I ever been to... It's Kentucky, correct? Yes. I have never been to Kentucky yet, but hopefully

I will be able to get there soon. Now, it was fascinating to me,

K. Marie Adams, to discover while reading up on your biography or your bio description that's on the

Internet that you have been involved or dedicated to rescuing young girls from modern -day slavery.

We can't obviously let that slip by without giving more details. Well, it's not as dramatic as it sounds.

I haven't actually gone into a location and rescued a girl from there, but I've been closely partnered with a couple of different organizations and done either graphic design work for them, helping them with fundraising, praying with them, so just a lot of...

a variety of ways to help, but there's so much more that needs to be done.

But yeah, that's definitely where we're going. Well, I would certainly like to at some point interview somebody with one of those ministries that you work with if they have a theologically sound background and so on,

I would love to get them on the program. Sure. I'd love to connect you with them. And I'm going to give our email address.

It's chrisarnson at gmail .com if anyone would like to join us on the air with a question.

chrisarnson at gmail .com and chrisarnson at comcast .com My co -host was reminding me that I have a

Comcast email address, but he probably doesn't know that my Gmail account was reactivated.

Oh, okay. I didn't know that yet, Chris. Yeah, Google had disabled my

Gmail account because of going over their quota with outgoing emails, promoting some upcoming events that Iron Sharpens Iron is involved in, so they slapped me on the wrist and disabled me from sending emails for three days, which was,

I thought, excessive. But you can use that email address again.

chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com You can also use our new email address chrisarnson at comcast .net

which we are keeping active chrisarnson at comcast .net

But how did you two get so fascinated by the

Noah story, the flood story that you both sought out to write this book,

Noah, Man of Destiny? But perhaps even before I ask that, or before you answer that, perhaps you two can explain how you started cooperating in writing projects.

I think the word cooperation is kind of a stretch. I'm kidding.

I'm sorry, I missed that. I didn't hear what you said, Kay Marie. Oh, I was teasing.

I said I think the word cooperation is kind of a stretch. Oh. And are our guests still on the air?

That is odd. I've heard some loud noise and sure enough we're disconnected. Well, I'm going to have to hang up and hopefully they'll call back.

And in the meantime, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com chrisarnson at gmail .com

And I think we have our guests back. That was odd. We heard a loud crashing noise and then dead silence.

I was letting Kay Marie drive for a little while. You had asked how we started collaborating on this project?

Yes, and anything that you could do to I don't know what you could do to make your voices a little bit more clear.

They're kind of muffled, but if you could you can go ahead with your explanation on how you and Kay Marie got to meet and cooperate.

Okay. Yeah, I don't know about this connection. We're hearing an echo on our side quite a bit. So we worked together at the auction counter and my role is the content manager.

I'm writing the signage and then Kay Marie is one of the graphic designers and so we had to work together quite a bit on the signage.

So that's how we started to work together and then she had asked me to review one of her unpublished writings and so I did that and as I was thinking about writing this story for Noah I thought, you know one of the areas that I'm not real skilled in writing is providing a lot of the environment, a lot of the details about the scenery and the sights and sounds and smells and everything that the character would experience and so I thought it would be helpful to have somebody who could really help with that and then the other thing with this story is that we're going to be seeing it through the eyes of Noah but there's also chapters where it's coming through the perspective of a couple of the female characters and I didn't want to try to presume to know how a female's mind works so I thought it would be good to bring on somebody who could write from that angle and so I had asked

Kay Marie to join me on it and she said she would. By the way,

Tim, I don't know if you believe in modern day miracles but if you ever figure out how a woman's mind works that would be one of them.

You know I'll mention this my wife actually had a brain surgery in January of last year so just a few years ago and it was endoscopic so they were able to go inside and right to the center of her brain and back out in two hours and I told the neurosurgeon that it took him two hours to get into her head.

I've been trying for twenty years. Well, I'm glad that your wife has a sense of humor at a time like that to hear her joke like that.

And by the way your voice is sounding 100 % better now for what it's worth. Okay, good.

And we already have a couple of listeners that have written questions for you and let's see we are going to by the way let me repeat our email address if anybody would like to join them on the air with a question it is chrisarnson at gmail dot com chrisarnson at gmail dot com we have a listener in Slovenia which is the the homeland of our new

First Lady Joe in Slovenia says in 1st

Peter 321 we read and corresponding to that, baptism now saves you, not the removal of dirt from the flesh but an appeal to God for a good conscience through the resurrection of Jesus Christ the keyword in this section seems to be the

Greek antetuban and it means copy, type corresponding to, a thing resembling another, its counterpart etc.

It is what the NIV translates as symbolizes, the NASB as corresponding to that and the

KJV as like figure baptism then is a representation a copy, a type of something else the question is what is a type or baptism corresponds to what if the floodwaters of the ark were both how does brother

Tim see this and how does his view play out in his book Noah, Man of Destiny well that's a pretty deep question involving original languages and stuff but I don't know if you have a comment or an answer to that Tim yeah, it's not something that we would get into in this book this is just the first book in the trilogy and right now it's a coming of age adventure so we're seeing

Noah as a young man he's about 40 years old at the start of the book so we're not even going to get to the flood until the third book so that wouldn't even become an issue what

Peter is writing about is something that well over 2000 years later and he's of course speaking about the gospel he refers back to the resurrection of Christ these things

Noah probably would not have had any or at least very little information about because God progressively reveals his plans throughout the

Old Testament so there's very little Noah would have known about so I don't know if that's going to come into play in our novel at all certainly there will be a worldwide flood sorry for the spoiler in book 3 yeah we'll have to cover that when we perhaps do a program on baptismal regeneration or something like that because I know that a lot of folks who believe in baptismal regeneration or that baptism is necessary for salvation they will often refer to this text and that's why there seems to be a controversy regarding the wording of it right but thank you very much

Joe in Slovenia and we also thank you for providing us with an

American address because we are going to send your daughter in the United States a free copy of the book that we are discussing today by our guests

Tim Chaffee and Kay Marie Adams Noah Man of Destiny and if you if you enjoy that book please let us know send us an email and we'd love to hear back from you on that.

Keep your eye open for a package from Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service cvbbs .com

cv for Cumberland Valley bbs for Bible Book Service .com and we look forward to hearing from you this story of Noah as a young man

I'm assuming this is a novel that is going to involve a lot of extra biblical creativity or artistic license as they say.

Am I correct? Yes Yeah that's correct and as Bible believing

Christians as those who are from conservative evangelical backgrounds who believe in the inerrancy of scripture and so forth has this created any controversy over your brethren in Christ who think that that is not something we should dabble in there are some

Christians who might think that we should not speculate on such things that are not recorded for us in the inerrancy in the inerrant word of God.

What are your thoughts on that and have you had any kind of conflict Yeah we've had some discussions on that with people and we anticipated that.

In fact one of the reasons we wrote the book was to drive people back to scripture. In fact we have a little notice at the very beginning.

It's like a dear reader. Here's what the Bible tells us about Noah. What you're about to read other than the details you just learned are fiction.

We're gonna go back and try to respectfully imagine what he was like. How could he acquire the skills that he had to build the ark

What would this man like based on the few details we have in scripture and what we really wanted to do is challenge some of the presuppositions that people have about Noah that aren't biblically based they may or may not be true but they're not necessarily found right in scripture you know if you ask people what was

Noah's profession before the flood well a lot of people would say well he went around preaching everywhere but where did the

Bible ever say that other than just calling him a preacher of righteousness at one point and what if he was already a very skilled ship builder by the time

God called him and said Noah built the ark I have a feeling when God told him to do that Noah didn't say

I don't know what an ark is, I don't know how to build a boat I think that God had been preparing him already

Well according to Bill Cosby he said that I know exactly, what's a cubic

Yeah so what we wanted to do is is to challenge a lot of the ideas that people have about the pre -flood world that are not necessarily found right in scripture and then what we did is at the end of the book we have about 40 pages of non -fiction to deal with some of the questions that come up and to help explain the decisions that we made and why we did what we did and to point people back to scripture each time because we want to use fiction to teach the truth and you know what we're not the only ones who do that, you can look at the way that David was confronted by a nation, you can look at Jesus used parables and I'm not saying our book is a parable but to tell things to tell things that aren't necessarily reflecting reality something that really happened to teach truth we do this all the time when we read the

Bible and this is the point that I made to a lot of people who are upset that at the ark we actually named the women on the ark so Noah's wife we've given a name to and the three wives of the three sons, we've named them for the sake of the experience at the ark, so you don't always say

Shem's wife, Shem's wife, Shem's wife you can call her by the name and people will get upset with that but they don't have any problem with the fact that we've used artistic license when it comes to their clothing, we've used artistic license when it comes to what they look like what the ark looks like what the animals look like everything you see there is artistic license but as soon as we named the women then suddenly we're added to scripture

I'd like to make a comment on that to follow up I got a copy of the book about a week ago and I was a little skeptical at the beginning and then

I read the back section just referred to the 40 pages and I got kind of excited about reading it and I've only read through chapter 4 but I have to say that using that as a

I would say as a beginning for a reader that believes the bible was very helpful because now you understand what you're trying to accomplish and I'll be honest the first 4 chapters

I was kind of excited about reading it now my wife has also read chapter 1 and she says she can't wait to get it back oh good good to hear yeah and that really is our goal because we also recognize that you know we're related to him and we're going to see him one day in glory so not to take away anything any of the details that scripture is very clear about with his life we want to keep those but then there are a lot of spaces where there's just nothing there and so that's what we kind of fill in and we've tried to do it respectfully with someone that we know that we're going to meet in glory.

I don't want to have to make a huge apology to him so I'll let him take the blame for that I was also very glad to see how you handled the issue with canopy theory or no canopy because that's something that Ken Ham and I disagree on completely well why don't you explain that I was glad to see that you handled it

I believe the canopy is in fact scientifically viable I don't have a lot of science behind it but I have certain evidences that I would point to the giantism in the fossil record the great longevity all of that would be in a hyperbaric condition and that's what the canopy would have provided Ken and I argued this one quite a bit and we don't agree but I'm glad to see the way you handled it because you handled it as either or or take your pick you didn't make a definitive statement and I appreciate that a lot you're welcome that's one of the several things we do in the back of the book, same with the issue of would it rain before the floods would also be related to the canopy model you know we have

I think you did in chapter 4 there's a rainstorm that I've mentioned in chapter 4 and what the reason we wanted to do that is for those who have always heard just the canopy model and never heard anything else about the pre -flood world and say wait a second is that true, could it rain?

because I thought it never rained before the flood and then cause them to look at the back of the book which then drives them back to scripture to look into those things well when we come back from the break

I would like you Tim and of course Charlie you can chime in and be more detailed with an explanation on those two views regarding the canopy model if you could then we are going to our first break if you'd like to join us on the air with a question for our guests our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com

chrisarnsen at gmail .com c -h -r -i -s -a -r -n -z -e -n at gmail .com we do have a listener in Kannapolis North Carolina who is waiting to join us and a couple of other folks so Casey you're up next when we come back from the break,

Casey in Kannapolis North Carolina after of course we have Tim and Kay Marie and Charlie discuss a little bit about the canopy model but don't go away we are going to be right back after these messages on the topic that we have today

Noah man of destiny so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away so don't go away

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if you just in the same our guests today author apologist blogger at midwest apologetics dot org and content manager for the arc encounter and came re -added was a graphic designer and volunteer for several ministries dedicated to rescuing young girls from modern -day slavery they're discussing their book that they've written together a novel called noah man of destiny if you'd like to join us on the air our email address is chris arnson at gmail dot com and before i go to casey in canapolis north carolina uh...

tim and came a really uh... and charlie uh... if you could explain a little bit about this controversy with the canopy theory or the canopy model if you could be explain exactly in detail what that is and why there is a difference of opinion about it this is this chris is an area of science and science is always interpretive and christians sometimes won't agree on size that that's the reality that that that's the nature of science itself however we all agree on the scripture so we know certain things for example the question that the canopy theory to be raises basically is was there rain before the flood or not and depending which one you want to accept you say yes there was or you say if i have the canopy which would say no there wasn't but prescription doesn't tell us so it is a matter of science the matter of interpretation so it comes down to which one of those scientific models would you like to use you imply that back to uh...

the pre -flood world and you can have rain or not scripture doesn't tell us so we don't know and science will change and tim canopy model is the idea that there is a water or vapor or ice canopy above the earth in genesis 2, 6 it says that god said let there be a firmament or an expanse in the midst of the waters and let it divide the waters from the waters so the idea that some people look at that and say well there was water above the earth and of course the water on the earth uh...

so this must be a reference to a canopy of some sort uh... that's one of the verses used for it and also in genesis 2, 5 it speaks about how god did not cause it to rain on the earth yet of course that's referring to before days or the conditions on day 6 right before he made man so this is where it's questionable is that can it be applied all the way throughout the pre -flood world or is it just referring to before man comes along and it's just setting the stage for what's about to happen uh...

but the the reason that i one of the reasons i'm not uh...

sold on the canopy model is because i don't think that scripture demands it uh... i see it as a possible way to understand that passage but uh...

the expanse or the firmament is also the place where god put the sun, moon, and the stars uh... genesis 1, 14 through uh...

19 talk about so the firmament is or the expanse is not only our atmosphere but it seems like it is also including outer space since that's where the sun, moon, and stars are so maybe the waters that he separated are actually out beyond that that's another possible way to understand genesis 1 uh...

in this way it does come down to how do we understand and interpret those passages and i think both are uh...

i don't think either side should accuse the other of uh... you know undermining scripture or trying to to get away from what scripture says and that's clearly not what charlie and i are doing uh...

but sometimes people you know how people can hold to their views and get pretty upset with it with somebody who disagrees really i've never experienced that oh please i've heard about it uh...

uh... we have uh... Casey in Kannapolis North Carolina how can a robust biblical understanding of Noah help us combat racism in our society today?

How can it help destroy the evolutionary views that support racism also?

Tim and Kay Marie? How can it help destroy the evolutionary views that support racism?

Oh yeah, well if we understand what scripture teaches us about Noah that we are all descended from him.

You know I had a discussion with somebody at the office not too long ago that said well Noah's the father of the

Hebrew people. I said well yeah he is he's the father of all people. We all go back to Noah so it doesn't matter what you know what shade your your skin is or what features you might have, we all go back to Noah and his wife.

So really from a biblical perspective we are all one race. There are there aren't different races, there's different people groups, and you know some people look taller or look

I'm taller than most people I'm six foot nine and some people are shorter that doesn't mean we're you know one's more highly evolved or less evolved and you know same thing's true when it comes to skin color or skin well of the same color technically.

We all have melanin, it's just the same pigment but it's the you know how much of it and how it's dispersed throughout the skin.

But so from a biblical perspective we should understand that we're all related we're all part of the human race and that's what

Paul said in Acts 17 that God made all men of one blood. The Bible tells us that Eve was to be the mother of all living, so we know that we all from a biblical perspective we all do go back to to one man and one woman.

So yeah really a biblical basis there's there's no basis for racism but as the as Casey said, and by the way that's a good name that's my wife's name, there the evolutionary view even though I wouldn't accuse all evolutionists or even most evolutions of being racist, it is inherently racist in its philosophy that some of the so -called races are more highly evolved than others.

Some are more closely related to the ape -like ancestor than others and it's led to some tragedy throughout history with the way that the

Australian Aborigines were were hunted down and and slaughtered and then their you know their heads are boiled down so they could send the skulls off to the

Smithsonian by the thousands. And that was an evolutionary worldview being put into play and you could say the same thing with Hitler and the way that he treated certain people groups like the

Jews. It comes from an evolutionary worldview. Yeah it's ironic that all of these liberals will laugh and they will chuckle and they will mock when they hear of a like a for instance a political candidate that says that he does not believe or she does not believe in evolution and yet it's amazing to me it actually frustrates me when sometimes there are conservatives sitting there who are a part of that conversation when they do not bring up to these liberals the full title for Darwin's book the origin of the species which is on the origin of species by means of natural selection or the preservation of favored races in the struggle for life and most people don't even know that and liberals should be informed of this that they are basing this this concept that they think every intelligent person should believe in it's all based on the racial racist notions of a bigot wouldn't you agree yeah in many ways that's true and anything further that you'd like to add either

Charlie or K Marie on that question from Kannapolis North Carolina about racism and Noah and so on how the story of Noah can help to diminish the concept of racism of course men are always going to be sinners until the final triumphant return of Christ and we are in glory with him for eternity but so nothing is going to automatically stamp out or erase racism but there are things that we can at least say to combat these notions in the in the early days after Darwin wrote origin of the species one of the things that happened is the

Europeans and they they actually call this white man's burden the Europeans felt that because the

Africans were so devolved or so further back from the evolutionary process that the white man's responsibility was to rescue them out of their culture and bring them bring them bring them into European culture and and that alone itself sets the sets the stage for things like Nazism yes and it was clear that Hitler was a believer in evolution as were the

Nazis and so on and now obviously we don't want to make the accusation that all people who are believing in that very false system are racist or neo -nazis of some kind but it just they should be aware of the roots of their their ideas and I think it would be fair to point out as well that you know some

Christians and professing Christians have to try to use the Bible to support racist ideas oh yeah like the curse of Ham would be some kind of an explanation of from even

I mean even that's a misnomer there's nothing no such thing as a curse of right right curse

Canaan but yeah that's right people use certain things like that and try to support racist ideas but there's nothing in scripture properly interpret it would would lead to that yeah and so this this novel that you've written it takes you up until what point in Noah's life with him in regard to the ark and so on at least for this first novel it is far before the ark knows the young man he's kind of off on his first adventure just leaving home and kind of figuring out what he wants to do in life and what his purpose is and so then he gets to meet his future wife in this novel and it just kind of sets the stage for where he's going but we have a full 600 years to deal with before the flood so he's kind of actually only dealt with the first about 45 46 years in Noah's life in this first book so studying the groundwork for a lot of things we don't get to see a whole lot as far as like the building of the ark but you're but you're looking at the the cultural structure and the structure of the world around him is that one of the points yeah and we really wanted to take it and and give the world kind of we know that when the flood comes that God says the thoughts of men were continuously wicked and so that's where we're headed but we wanted to kind of give it a slowing slowly get to that point and so Noah is he lives in a more innocent world at this point and he hasn't seen a lot of evil he hasn't seen a lot of bloodshed and so as he goes on his journeys and as he encounters different cultures that don't follow the ways of create of the

Creator like his family did he encounters more of it but it's still within this first book if there's not as much evil as we're going to have to see obviously in book three and book two will actually be that transition for us some somewhere in the middle of the second book which we're working on right now that one will will fast -forward about 50 years but the basis for that in Scripture if you look at Genesis 4 26 it says and as for Seth to him

Adam's son Seth to him also a son was born and he named him Enosh then men began to call him the name of the

Lord so in the third generation you have Adam and Seth and Enosh it says men began to call him the name of the

Lord well those are people who are living about 900 years old when Noah comes on the scene

Enosh's generation would have been the ones who were the elders in this so the way we portrayed is that this is a godly generation that kind of held the wickedness in check but as they start to die off you're gonna see the world become more and more wicked and so by the time we get to when

Noah's 500 it's not going to be a very nice place yeah nothing we have oh by the way

Casey in North Carolina you are getting a free copy of this book as well that is

Noah man of destiny by Tim Chaffee and K -Marie Adams and that's compliments of master books the publisher of this book and also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service and we hope you keep listening and keep spreading the word in North Carolina about the program we have

CJ in Lindenhurst Long Island New York who wants to know have you or anyone from the ministry that you represent

Ken Ham or others ever contacted those who have created very horrible

Hollywood versions of these scenes from the Bible such as the

Russell Crowe movie with Noah and I was wondering if there was any rebuke given by any from anyone from your ministry to these folks so that perhaps in the future they may use more wisdom and trying to be more accurate to the stories they are pretending to portray well we don't really have the ear of Russell Crowe or of Darren Aronofsky you know they didn't want to listen to us on what they were doing with that film and you know that film was quite dreadful and blasphemous in many ways anything in scripture that is called good they make evil and anything that is evil in scripture they make the good guys so really they twisted the scripture so much and in some way that was helpful for us or when we're working on the

Arkham Counter my philosophy was hey if the Noah movie did it let's do the opposite we're going to be biblical in many ways that came true but here's the thing

I think that Darren Aronofsky did read the Bible and I think he did pay attention to it when he was making the film and I think his idea was to twist it as much as he possibly could so he knew what it said and then he was trying to change

I mean he even got little he got little tiny details wrong about the you know which how many people were on the

Ark although he tried to work around that with a technicality but the order in which Noah's children were born he had

Noah's father dying in the opening scene of the film rather than five years before the flood and you know something that he could have changed and wouldn't have changed his storyline at all but there's so many little things that he didn't pay attention or he didn't care to get right

I don't and he clearly wanted to make the fallen angels the good guys and Noah this monster and God's a evil ogre so very different than what the

Bible says but we did do a lengthy review on the website answers in Genesis org you can read my review it's over 4 ,000 words on this film and then we did a live webcast the night that it came out we were able to see the evening before but the night that it came out we had about seven or eight of us up on the stage discussing this film for about an hour and some of the dangers that were there so we we try to keep people informed on those things but Hollywood doesn't often contact us to ask us about it but I will give credit to one of the newspapers in Washington I think it was the

Washington Post but maybe in the Washington Times they called me and asked me about the accuracy of it they were checking up on things before they wrote on something so we did get to have a little bit input that way one of the things that's valuable when it comes to films purport to tell

Bible stories is to wait till they've been reviewed by credible ministries and then

Christians can vote with their dollars whether they go to see it or not and that will affect Hollywood ultimately yeah but of course you used a very key word there credible because what's the credible ministry

MIT is one of the best there there was a Christian radio station that I am

NOT going to mention and a Christian talk show host that I'm not going to mention on that station that were promoting the

Noah movie they were calling themselves the official headquarters for tickets and all kinds of things and I'm just my mind my head is spinning when

I when I see and hear that kind of a thing and for our listeners who may be still curious about seeing this movie on DVD or something it gets a lot worse than Tim was describing

Tim was just talking about little or comparatively minor details that were wrong

I mean this movie portrays Noah as stalking his daughter his pregnant daughter -in -law to murder her because he believes that the humans should not populate the earth and that that was the reason why

God was destroying it really was that they wanted to bring an end to the human race completely and this there is some obviously some kind of motivation with ecology going insane here

I think but have you ever found out any of like the driving motivations behind that movie and the the direction that it took in regard to you know what

I just said and other things you know I've read several different articles that dealt with that you know some people say well and often

Darren Aronofsky the the director he's agnostic and so he was doing you know what you know he was trying to put all of this in there

I've read a really good article talking about how a lot of it comes out of the Kabbalah you know this

Jewish mysticism belief system there there's so many different takes on what he was doing but what we do know is it didn't line up with Scripture at all and that was one thing

I want to talk about real quickly because people will say well they use artistic license and you guys are using artistic license what's the difference and the difference is that our artistic license is consistent with Scripture anything that Scripture says we're going to make do our best to make sure that we line up with that and we're not going to knowingly contradict what the

Bible says whereas Aronofsky clearly did not care about that he didn't have that filter and he

I think he was deliberately trying to contradict Scripture well and I think one of the real tragedies of that movie is it just shows how how he views

God and not as someone who could be the Savior of his soul and obviously with him and me both being

Christians we have a completely different view of God and that is what comes through our book is a

God who is merciful and a God who not only needs to have judgment because of his holiness but he also provides him mercy in there as well by the way

CJ thank you for the excellent question you are getting a free copy of this book that we are discussing

Noah man of destiny by Tim Chaffee and K Marie Adams the it's a part of the remnant trilogy book number one and we hope that you enjoy that make sure that you give us your full mailing address in Lindenhurst New York so that we can have

Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service ship that out to you and we have a few other people waiting to have their questions asked and answered but I'm good we're going to our next station break if you would like to join us on the air as well with a question our email address is

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris Arnzen at gmail .com

don't go away we are going to be right back after these messages with Tim Chaffee and K Marie Adams on Noah man of destiny don't go away

Chris Arnzen here and I can't wait to head down to Atlanta Georgia and here's my friend Dr. James White to tell you why hi

I'm James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries I hope you join me at the G3 conference hosted by pastor

Josh Bice and Praise Mill Baptist Church at the Georgia International Convention Center in Atlanta January 19th through the 21st in celebration of the 500th anniversary of the

Protestant Reformation I'll be joined by Paul Washer Steve Lawson DA Carson Vody Balcom Conrad and Bayway Phil Johnson Rosaria Butterfield Todd Friel and a host of other speakers who are dedicated the pillars of what

G3 stands for gospel grace and glory for more details go to G3 conference .com

that's G3 conference .com thanks James make sure you greet me at the iron sharpens iron exhibit booth while you're there

Paul wrote to the church at Galatia for am I now seeking the approval of man or of God am

I trying to please man if I were still trying to please man I would not be a servant of Christ hi

I'm Mark Lukens pastor of Providence Baptist Church we are a reformed Baptist Church and we hold to the

London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689 we are in Norfolk Massachusetts we strive to reflect

Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do than how men view these things that's not the best recipe for popularity but since that wasn't the

Apostles priority it must not be ours either we believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man and to be vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build up the body of Christ in truth and love if you live near Norfolk Massachusetts or plan to visit our area please come and join us for worship and fellowship you can call us at 508 -528 -5750 that's 508 -528 -5750 or go to our website to email us listen to past sermons worship songs or watch our

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I'm Pastor Bill Shishko inviting you to tune in to a visit to the pastor's study every

Saturday from 12 noon to 1 p .m. on WLIE radio www .wlie540am

.com we bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you and we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your questions our time will be lively useful sometimes controversial but never dull join us this

Saturday at 12 noon for a visit to the pastor's study because everyone needs a pastor that's 12 noon to 1 p .m.

Eastern Time on WLIE 540 a .m. on the dial if you live in the New York Tri -State area or anywhere in the world via live streaming at WLIE 540 a .m.

dot -com if you just tuned us in for the full two hours today our guests are

Tim Chaffee and K Marie Adams and for the next hour they will continue their discussion on their book

Noah man of destiny and my co -host in the studio is Charlie Liebert founder of 6daycreation .com

our email address if you'd like to join us with a question is ChrisArnzen at gmail .com

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com and before I go to any of our listeners that have questions

Charlie you said you had a question that you wanted to ask yeah the question the the question

I want to ask is have you got titles for the other two books in the trilogy we do the second one is called

Noah man of resolve and then the third one is

Noah man of God okay very good I was wondering if the third one's gonna be Noah man of disaster yeah

I understand I understand yeah one of the thing going back to these movies one of the things that annoys me is when filmmakers not only unnecessarily change the

Bible stories from what they are in writing in the inerrant Word of God but when they change the stories and make them less spectacular

I mean you could understand especially a non Christian or somebody even outside of the

Jewish faith who is creating a movie and they want to change something in the

Bible because they think they're going to make it more theatrically or cinematically spectacular and phenomenal and exciting but isn't it amazing how often when these filmmakers get a hold of the

Bible stories they make them more dull I was even shocked when

Mel Gibson who at the time I don't know what if any religion he is practicing today but he was a very small sect of Roman Catholicism called

Sata vacant ISM when he created the passion of the Christ which is an extreme

Latin right group within Catholicism but he

I was surprised that even he made the arrest of Jesus in the garden less spectacular he took out the the part when the the soldiers fell to the ground after he said

I am I mean that that seemed to be a ridiculous thing to take out yeah well

I think that's pretty ridiculous take that out to it really is eliminating who he is in some ways you know there was other it's not like he was as bad as Darren Aronofsky and things at least you do see

Jesus in that film saying I am the way the truth and life no one comes to the father except through me yeah I mean he at the time anyway appeared to apparently he believed in the whole biblical account of Jesus so that's what made it more odd to me that he would take that out yeah well and actually

I just saw a month or two ago that he's confirmed that he's gonna be working on the sequel to the passion something on the resurrection which that's an area that that's actually my favorite area to talk about so I'm very interested to see what he does with that huh that is interesting because I was wondering where he was in his mind religiously these days we have we have

RJ in White Plains New York who wants to know if you two ever plan on seeing if your trilogy can become a movie or a series of movies

I wouldn't say no producers anybody who could finance it we're all ears but movies are extremely expensive and to do them well you know they're quite expensive you look at the

Hollywood blockbusters you know the big special effects film those things are anywhere from 100 to 200 million dollars well just that alone would pay for the whole arc encounter which was a huge project so it shows you the kind of financing that a lot of these

Hollywood films have to make these films and I certainly can't write a check for that at least not at this point but if hey if every one of your listeners buys about 500 copies of the book maybe we should and by the way to our listeners who want to get a glimpse of this this phenomenal recreation of the arc this this true -to -size model of the arc from the biblical dimensions go to arc encounter dot com arc encounter dot com it's really absolutely breathtaking what they have done here and of course

I immediately though see something that has strayed from the biblical account on the front page of the arc encounter calm you have

Christmas trees around the arc that must be that must be around the visitor center but by the way

RJ in White Plains you are receiving a free copy of this book that we are discussing Noah man of destiny as well so please give us your full mailing address in White Plains New York so we can have that shipped out to you

Harrison a mechanics Berg Pennsylvania wants to know what do you believe are the core truths that we are supposed to learn from the whole story of Noah are our guests there okay sorry

I think one of the things

I always point out about Noah is if you look in Genesis 622 it tells us best Noah did according to all that God commanded him so he did and Noah served as a good example for us to follow somebody who was faithful to God in the midst of an extremely wicked world probably more wicked than we can even imagine and we look at our world and we kind of belong how terrible is it

I think that Noah's world was probably a bit worse in terms of the wickedness here

God tell them that I've seen that you alone are righteous before me in this generation there are thousands and thousands

Christians around the globe right now people who are godly and I don't think that Noah had that kind of support system and so here is a guy who is willing to stand up to that world and still follow the

Lord not even knowing as much as we know about about God you know he yeah and I'll let

K Marie address that one because she I know she likes to talk about this particular aspect because I think it's pretty fascinating that we were able to write about it well and as Tim was alluding to that's one of my favorite things that came out of the book was just recognizing in reading the first couple chapters of Genesis we had to really limit

Noah's interaction with God I mean we obviously know that he didn't have scriptures in their entirety the

Bible never talks about him knowing who Jesus Christ was it doesn't even say he was the spirit so there are these elements that we have today as believers that at least according to what the

Bible describes Noah was without and Noah did get to talk like it have that conversation with God when

God told him to build the ark but other than that what was as he moved through faith like with his faith how he walked with God but what else and so just to really encourage and challenge our readers to recognize the wealth that they have being both

Jesus Christ and all that we have today as Christians well not Noah is asked to do something that would be mentally absurd that is to build a boat on dry land and you know you have to say you have to say that that requires a certain amount of faith that the

God that was telling him to do it knew what he was doing and that's a that's a matter of to me very powerful faith you mean built a boat on dry land with no water inside you know obviously everybody knows the size of the ark and the construction of the ark on an area where there was no way to float that thing theoretically right well that's assuming that it was built on dry land the

Bible doesn't tell us that that's one of those assumptions again that people have about the about the flood account that just never is brought out in Scripture you know a real common one is you know we always hear people say that well everybody mocked

Noah and yet the Bible never said that I think it's very plausible very believable he's like I was just talking about he's a righteous man in a very ungodly world we know how the ungodly treat the righteous today so it's very believable that he was mocked but it just never said in Scripture anywhere right yeah

I guess that like you said it is a logical assumption because everybody else was wicked and nobody else was clamoring to get into the ark and except perhaps after the floods were coming if there were even other people around him that's another assumption that we have to we make sometimes that you mean it is an immediate you mean in his immediate immediate vicinity you mean because obviously there were other people because they perished the the other thing that I'm interested to see how you handle is how he gathers the animals together when it gets time to put them inside the ark well that's something that we talked about in the ark encounter and of course we'll be dealing with it in book three because that's the third book we'll have more about the ark this is that's gonna be when

Noah's in his 500s the first book doesn't have anything about the ark yet it's more about just his development yeah it's coming of age but um the

Bible tells us like in Genesis 620 God said that that all the animals would come to him so Noah didn't have to go around looking for the animals at all like a lot of people assume they were brought to him yes

I understand so that that's one thing that the Russell Crowe movie had right then because if I can say this that was the only thing in the film that I kind of liked

I liked a little storytelling the device they did with the little stream of water where all the animals followed that to the ark

I thought that was an effective way to do it but I don't want to be seen as giving props right that was the that was one of the few scenes that was actually cinematically remarkable too which surprised me yeah that was one thing about that film and I want to belabor the point about it really didn't seem to be that well done if I can say that way and it was kind of a it was kind of boring oh and the and the really ridiculous rock creatures that were

I believe but even the way they looked it was out of place because they look comically artificial they looked like something that I recall seeing in a

Gumby cartoon when I was a kid you know I mean it was it was really pathetic it would have been strange and totally out of place but anyway were they supposed to be the

Nephilim or something like that I can't remember they were they were actually the fallen angels that that came to earth to help man because according the movie because God was so cruel for judging man for eating you know a fruit and so he the angels were gonna come and help man but God caused them to crash into the earth and the earth stuck to their bodies of light so in in the film they were the fallen angels but in the

Bible the Nephilim are the offspring of the sons of God and right that's right by the way

Harrison in Mechanicsburg Pennsylvania you've also won a free copy of the book we are discussing

Noah man of destiny by Tim Chaffee and K Marie Adams so please make sure you get us your full mailing address in Mechanicsburg Pennsylvania we have

Aaron in Indianapolis Indiana who wants to know I wondered how your guests walk with Christ has been affected by studying and writing this book excellent question yeah and I think it goes back to for me my walk with Christ has

I've just grown more thankful to recognize the wealth that I have today being able to look through the scripture and and read clearly what he says and and so that I've really been affected by reading it by writing this and I really enjoyed that aspect of it

I don't know about you Tim yeah I would echo those comments you know as somebody who

I've mentioned at the outset of the program I've really been a believer throughout my entire life and I've for years and years

I've been fascinated with the pre -flood world a little bit I know the reason why you know

God was preparing me to do what I do today and that is to as the content manager for the Ark Encounter and to be writing a novel like this but it really for my walk

I think it was helpful to to look deeply at the at the life of one of the heroes of the faith

I mean and he's not just any hero of the faith if you look at Ezekiel 14 14 and Ezekiel 14

I think it's verse 20 he's put in the same class as Daniel and Job Ezekiel God is speaking to him says that you know he's going to destroy the city of Jerusalem and even if Noah Daniel and Job were in it they would save only themselves by their righteousness so he's saying they wouldn't even save anybody else it was just the three of them would be spared and so Noah's put in the same class as Daniel and Job and the thing

I always love about that verse is Daniel was alive at that time so that's the class that Ezekiel put

Daniel in so looking at Noah's life and trying to model what

I can from that you know just to have complete trust in God no matter how bad things may look to us he's still in control he knows what's going on nothing happens to us that are beyond what he allows and it's we can trust in him through all of that and I know we've mentioned this before but even for me going back and realizing okay so what have

I accepted through growing up in the church as like oh the Bible says this about Noah and then wait let me read through those scriptures again and see actually what details are there and what details

I've just filled in based upon what I've assumed and so and we we've said that's why we wrote this is to get people back the

Bible and I've benefited so much from it as well to just go is this am I believing this because someone else has said it or because I've really read it in the scriptures and this is really the truth by the way

Aaron you have won a free copy of the book Noah man of destiny so please give us your full mailing address in Indianapolis Indiana we have the winner now of our last copy we have

PJ in Bridge City Texas and and he is not only going to be winning a free copy of Noah man of destiny but because he's a first -time questioner he's also getting a free

New American Standard Bible a beautiful edition of the NASB with an embossed cross on the cover and it's a perfect size for carrying around to visitations and can easily fit in a briefcase in a winter coat pocket it's not quite a pocket size it's not a tiny tiny

Bible but it is a small enough Bible that it can be easily carried around and could fit in most women's pocketbooks and so on and purses

PJ says in your guest's book how are they going to introduce a pre

Hebrew culture in the book knowing that the biblical account was written in a

Hebrew context or if they are at all yeah

I think that's an excellent question and it's one that we had discussed many many times I mentioned earlier how

I was speaking with somebody and they said well Noah's the father of Hebrew people and they said well he's the father of all people and that really is true

Noah wasn't a Jewish man and you know we kind of think that anybody Old Testament we think of them in one way and they were you know

Noah wasn't that. So one thing that we did and we haven't talked about this yet in the book that will come up probably in the third book in the back of the book section if you look at the names of people in the

Bible there are a lot of them have God's name in their name in some way you know

Daniel Elijah Elisha or at least a title for God they have L but you also have many that have the

Yah sound in there which is short for Yahweh but that seemed to be more of a distinctly

Hebrew naming convention in fact the first time it ever comes up in the

Bible where somebody had named that is in Exodus chapter 6 right after God says that to where he tells him that he is

Yahweh and he says to your father that was not known by this name but then he he announces who he is and from that point on you see people being named with that sound in it but nobody in Genesis has that sound at all so in our book you won't see anybody with a

Yah sound even though it sounds like a biblical name we won't have it we've done several with the

EL because you see that in Genesis 5 like Methuselah there's a few people that have that EL title in there but they don't have the personal name of God in their name so that's one aspect where we did that we also tried to come up with different conventions that they would use and I'll let

Kay Marie talk about a couple of things like with the with weddings and funerals we're gonna see these things in the book but we didn't want to try to copy the way that you know modern

Americans do it or the way that Jews have done it because we wanted to make something that seemed

I said otherworldly but I don't really mean it to be like from a different planet but just something that we're not really accustomed to so I'll let her address that a little bit yeah so when creating the wedding ceremony in the first book

I went back to just what we see in those first couple chapters of Genesis and then with God creating

Adam and Eve in the garden and so I took it as if that's the story that would have been passed down from Noah's ancestors and so then that's where their customs came from and so you don't get to see a unity candle or any of our modern

American things or even some like of a Jewish culture thing but it's more of just a biblical culture a couple chapters in Genesis culture and and taking it from that well thank you

PJ in Texas and give us your full mailing address so I see we already have that in Bridge City Texas and we are going to God willing be shipping those two things out to you not only the book

Noah man of destiny but also the new new American Standard Bible compliments of master books the publishers of the

NASB and also compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CV bbs .com

so keep your eye out in the mail for a package from CV bbs .com that's CV for Cumberland Valley BBS for Bible book service calm and you should be getting that God willing as I said in about a week or so if you could if anybody else would like to join us on the air with a question our email address is

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com that's C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com

and please give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence if you live outside of the good old

USA we have BB in Cumberland County Pennsylvania who wants to know why so many unbelievers and secularists laugh and mock at the possibility of the ark fitting all of the animals to be rescued from the flood what was that extra actually a provable possibility or in your case it would be more than a possibility since you believe in the biblical count of course yeah that's something that we address at the

Ark Encounter in pretty good detail one of the things that we hear from skeptics frequently is that there's no way the ark could fit all the animals there's no way it could fit 10 million species or 20 million species or 80 million species and it seems like they always pull this number out of the hat but if you look at the

IUCN red list which is the this is all the number of species that we know about it 1 .72

million species the Journal of Science three years ago they published an article saying that they estimate that the total number of species on earth is anywhere from 2 million to 8 million 1 .5

have been identified and then they're speculating that the rest of them exist which

I think there are many that we haven't found yet but those are the actual numbers that they're dealing with but here's what they're not telling us or here's when people object to about the ark those numbers include 1 million insect species and Noah was not responsible for bringing they they include all of the plants they include all of the microorganisms and bacteria they include all of the marine life when you remove all of those what you're dealing with is 34 ,000 species or fewer than 34 ,000 species but the

Bible doesn't talk about the species going on the ark it's the kinds so when you look at like the wolf and the coyote and the different foxes and the in the common dogs that we have a lot of those are different species but they're all part of the same dog kind and when you begin to understand that Noah didn't need two dingoes two coyotes two wolves he just needed two dogs and that when you run the numbers and we've actually done this we have a list of them that we're going to be putting in the ark very soon so we can ask people hey which which animals are we forgetting and this is all of the extinct and still living ones that we've accounted for that are land dependent animals there are fewer than 1 ,400 kinds that would have been required on the ark and because some of them are going to be coming by twos and some of them are going to be coming by we're actually doing by seven pairs rather than seven because we're going to use a what we call a worst -case scenario to the numbers of animals some

Bibles say seven when say seven pairs and it's because the Hebrew technically says seven seven a male and a female so it sounds like 14 but I want to be dogmatic on that but we're gonna go with a higher number so the total number of animals is fewer than 7 ,000 and with the size of the ark the animals fit on there quite nicely actually remember he didn't have to bring the biggest one possible so even though the elephant gets to be very large he didn't have to bring the largest one and the sauropod dinosaurs that we think of like Brachiosaurus again he didn't have to bring the largest one at one point during their lives they were much much smaller based on biological classification this is more like the family level rather than the genus and species level am

I correct yeah in most cases it's very it's very closely related to the family level there are somewhere it might get down to the genus or even the species but in many cases it's at the family level well when

I think of dogs I think of dogs coyotes wolves dingoes you know me go through a whole long list of the things that could be contained in one kind yeah that's right dogs are a good example cats are another good example every cat that we see in the world today is part of the cat kind there's not a large cat kind and a small cat kind they're just cats unfortunately

I right there were no it isn't interesting how those who are mocking the story are forgetting their own evolution because even creationists who reject

Darwinian evolution believe that there is a type of evolution within kinds right and we call it adaptation yeah yeah a lot of times these skeptical try to point that out and the problem with that argument is that what we're saying is that original created kinds had greater variability genetic greater genetic information to give rise to the to what we see today so the species that we see today are actually more specialized there they have less diversity less genetic information and so what we're seeing from the art to the different dog kinds down to the species today is actually if you could say people there they're losing information along the way whereas evolution requires a net gain of information and we have no known process that could actually do that this whole process of adaptation and eventually extinction is a devolution process not an evolution and it speaks directly against their model yeah exactly right and going back to the insects about how many millions of varieties there are you could easily fit a couple of million insects in one tiny corner of an arc but termites we are going to our final break right now thank you

BB and Cumberland County Pennsylvania for your great question keep spreading the word in Cumberland County and wherever else you go we're going to be coming right back

God willing with the final half hour of our interview with Tim Chaffee and K Marie Adams on Noah man of destiny so don't go away we are coming right back after these messages

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Eastern Time on WLIE 540am .com well welcome back we have with us today for the last 20 minutes or so on the program

Tim Chaffee and Kay Marie Adams who were our guests today for the entirety of the show we were discussing and we will continue to discuss for the next 20 minutes

Noah man of destiny and our co host and studio has been and will continue to be today

Charlie Liebert of six day creation .com if you'd like to join us on the air with a question

I advise you do it very quickly because we will be running out of time before you know it and our email address is

ChrisArnzen at gmail .com ChrisArnzen at gmail .com

and I would like Tim before we take any more listener questions

I would like you to give a summary of what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners in regard to this story of Noah and in regard to this book that you've written and then after you're finished if Kay Marie you could do the same.

I really want listeners to ultimately to know is that God's Word is true when it speaks about the flood when it speaks about who

Noah was when it speaks about anything in Scripture from the very beginning to the very end it's

God's Word and it is absolutely reliable but that's not the ultimate goal is not just to show them that Scripture is true we want to show them who the

God of Scripture is we want them to come to know who God is and that of course the way we come to know him is through his son

Jesus Christ and so at the end of the book after the novel after the back of the book section that we have we do have a presentation of the gospel there for people because you know there are a lot of people who aren't willing to pick up a nonfiction book you know if you if you gave him a book hey here's a story here's what the

Bible says about Noah and it's a nonfiction book they may not be interested in that but they might be willing to read a historical novel and get engaged in the story and they find themselves enjoying this

I'm wanting more wanting to find out more about it and then I hear we have an opportunity to share the most important message with them so that's we wanted to make sure we did that at the end of the book well thank you and we let's see we have

Arnie in Perry County Pennsylvania who asks I want to make it clear that I do not agree with this assessment that some may have but how do you respond to Christians who believe something like the ark encounter removes the biblical stories of their holiness and dignity by turning them into somewhat of a carnival attraction

I have heard some Christians say this I don't agree with it because I think that they are powerful evangelism tools and of course

I think that anything that is taken from the Bible could wrongly be turned into this

I just don't believe that you have done that I would say that if somebody feels all to not go and they feel that God is telling them that that there's a huge discrepancy then by all means listen to what

God's telling you and don't do it all try to make something of it because that's not the point but it is a way of reaching a lot of people who it is nice to be able to visualize something to experience something to if you've learned more a style where you get to be a part of something and then that's where you should come and that's where you should see it and that's where even with this book you get to see

Noah as a human being someone who has has problems he's not completely perfect he's growing in his walk with God and he's someone who laughs and has a good time too and and so you get to see that aspect if that's something that helps you grow then by all means

I would recommend both right and I would say that when it comes to the ark encounter I think you look at the the spirit behind it look at the attitude in which it's done it's not done flippantly nowhere in there do we make light of Scripture in fact over and over and over again we point to this

Scripture as being our authority our goal is to uphold the authority of Scripture and it is not to make light of it in any way but there are going to be some people who just you know will don't want anything like that I remember on my one of my blog posts about the novel right away somebody said well why do we need a novel we have

God's Word I'm just going to study that and my response was great if you're going to continually study God's Word I'll never try to dissuade you from that please do it but there are some people who don't do that all the time and there's people who there some people who study the

Bible regularly and still want to read fiction too and so there's a there's a benefit sometimes in seeing it through somebody else's eyes

I remember here's an example I give a lot as far as this goes

I remember the Bible miniseries that was on TV a couple years ago and this is an endorsement of that there were a lot of problems with it but I remember when

Paul was blinded and he goes to see Ananias and you know so that he would be cured of his blindness and when he gets to Ananias there's this guy who's like you know in his late 30s or early 40s and he got a buzz haircut and I thought that's not

Ananias, Ananias has a long beard and he's an old guy and then I thought wait a second those are my ideas that's not what the

Bible tells us. So there's a time that it's helpful to see it through somebody else's perspective it helps you again it draws you back to Scripture to say does it really say this and that's what we we want people to be constantly going back to the

Word of God and that's really the goal of the novel and also at the Ark Encounter and if I can add this one of the things we did that relates to the

Ark Encounter with the novel is Kay Marie and I because we both worked on that project behind the scenes and we could see that the incredible things that the the artists and the fabricators were making every single day we were able to write in a bunch of the props into the story and it's kind of seamless as you're reading the story but then you can go to the

Ark Encounter you can see a lot of things that Noah came across in his journey in the book and so there's a section at the end of the book called

Encounter This and it lists about a dozen of these items that says well in chapter 10 he came across this thing or he talked about this well you can go see this on the second deck of the

Ark in this exhibit and so the book kind of comes alive for people in a way that most other books don't get to.

Well thank you very much for that excellent question and keep listening and keep writing in to Iron Sharpens Iron.

We have Christopher in Suffolk County Long Island New York who said that in the past you have had a guest on your program who is a

Christian archaeologist who believes he discovered the actual site of Sodom but he also said that he did not believe in any of the accounts claimed where a discovery of a part of the

Ark has been claimed. What is your current guests thoughts on that? I also don't believe that we have found

Noah's Ark in our day. I have real doubts as to whether or not it would still be around if you think of a wooden structure being left out in the elements for for thousands of years you know if you drive by an old farm where the barn is built a hundred years ago the roof is caving in the wood is decaying and within 200 years the thing is gone.

Wood just doesn't do well out in the elements and some people will say well if it was frozen in ice it could have been preserved and that's true but the ice on these mountains are you know they're moving constantly and that would rip the thing to shreds.

So I don't think that you'll find the Ark especially not in a you know in a constructed state at all.

Maybe you'd find pieces of it somewhere if it was trapped in ice but I don't believe that it actually was on the

Mount Ararat. The Bible tells us the Ark landed on the mountains of Ararat. Mount Ararat is a volcano that seems to have come up later in the flood and later than when the

Ark actually landed. So I don't think that when people are looking there they're looking in the right spot but then again

I don't think that we're gonna be able to find it in our day either. Yeah that was by the way if anybody wants to look up that fascinating interview

I had with Dr. Stephen Collins you can go to ironsharpensironradio .com

and you can type in Sodom in the search engine at the top right corner or you could type in Collins for Stephen Collins name and that will come up.

It was quite a fascinating interview about his discovery as an archaeologist of what he is absolutely convinced without question in his mind is the actual site of Sodom and this is not some sensationalist figure this archaeologist he's a very very serious brother in Christ who even will tell you that one of the the greatest hindrances to Christian archaeology today are the number of fraudulent claims made by charlatans who are trying to make money on certain things that they claim that they have found and so but he he had a very convincing account of this and has a book about it as well and I want to remind our listeners that our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com

chrisarnsen at gmail .com do you both have any other than the other two books in the trilogy that we're expecting do you have any other writing projects that you'd like to share well

I just finished off several of them that have to do with the Ark encounter a lot of more for the ministry and you know we have a book called

Noah's Ark or Inside the Ark how it worked I did a lot of the writing for that one and I've done several nonfiction books as well

I've done one on the resurrection and I've been kicking around the idea of doing one dealing with the issues related to the birth of Christ that have you know that have been quite controversial a lot of the skeptical questions about it and so I thought about doing that but I've got a series of novels to finish first yeah and I'm gonna stay focused on these for now well there that's a pretty good endeavor you got you got one book in the finished one book in the process another one to write that's a pretty significant amount of work it really is and for somebody like me it's easy to brainstorm and come up with the ideas but to write fiction sometimes it's challenging

I enjoy it I like that I like doing the dialogue I like doing the action but anytime there's some of the slower scenes that need to be in there to move the story along sometimes that can be

I get a lot of writers block during those times but nonfiction is pretty easy for me to do you just do the research and then you start writing right yeah

I've written several things in fiction that are on Kindle and that's always been a struggle for me but once you get starting on it usually it kind of rolls out yeah in fact especially if you start to know the characters and they become more and more developed in many ways the story starts to write itself which is helpful yep

I understand and before I forget to ask you this before we go off the air

Charlie Liebert you have a Christmas story that you have posted somewhere yes and you are saying it's starting to really catch yeah

I'm getting all kinds of hits on Instagram here and I posted a picture of the cover story it's called the memory tree it's about an eight or ten page story it's not very long but it does give the gospel very clearly and it talks about a

Christmas tree that basically people remember different different events and eventually the gospel and how does somebody in our listening audience the memory the memory tree is on Amazon Kindle you can get you can get you can get it there directly you can find a lot like I said

Instagram and I've also posted on Facebook and on my Facebook page my Facebook page is your

Christian answers calm okay great and we do have

Christopher in Cumberland County Pennsylvania who wants to know is there any other

Christian book of fiction or film that you two both enjoyed and promote

I love radio Alcorn's books of fiction

I love that he uses he kind of does a similar thing where he uses he's got

Dominion deadline and deception and he uses each book now who is this I missed the name I'm sorry yeah well it starts off a deadline and then there's

Dominion and then deception and each one kind of tackles a theme so in now

I met the author who is the author it's Randy Alcorn oh okay I missed that for some some reason okay sorry about that yeah so he tackles abortion in the first one he tackles the issue of racism in the second and then he tackles atheism in the third and I love that he uses a mystery to to kind of also delve into those topics and he also does a great job if you know about his ministry that he does eternal perspectives and you get to see earth heaven and then hell in parts of the book and so it's a really neat way to kind of yeah just to see a lot of it

I love them and I would say from for me as far as fiction goes but my favorite one is growing up and we're not that I think that they're all they're completely theologically sound but would be

Frank Peretti's this piercing or piercing the darkness and this present darkness is the first one and I'm piercing the darkness and then in terms of there's a couple of really good pre flood novels that are similar in the not in the content but in you know the same era that we've written that I really enjoy there's a trilogy by Douglas Hurt that great action series and then

I've got a friend named Mark Huffman who is working on a trilogy as well and his first book is out that one's called

Leviathan and it's very very good so I'm looking forward to what he's got yeah that that will probably be at least the fourth or fifth movie with that same title for some reason that that has come out in completely different movies by the way different themes that is of Leviathan well when it comes to Christian fiction

I gotta cite a couple Lord of the Rings CS Lewis's knowledge 90 trilogy and then

CS Lewis's sci -fi which are not commonly known which I really enjoyed as a sci -fi fan and I don't know if you would categorize an allegory as fiction but what about Pilgrim's Progress yes that means it was all about biblical themes but it was a it is fiction

I'd like to ask something of our guests we were talking all about the horrible movie

Noah has there ever been a good movie that is biblically faithful that you two enjoyed about Noah and the ark

I can't think of one there was a mini series last year or two years ago that came out that was better than the

Noah film but it still had you know I had Noah with a fourth son although he was kind of a like an adopted son and he didn't make it on the ark there and there's just some other like there are a lot more than just eight people at the end pound people came running out and he let him on there were a lot of people on the ark so there were problems with that I can't think of any good

Noah movies that I've seen before I mean as far as biblical movies are or at least dealing with biblical themes

I really did enjoy Risen which came out last year oh yeah I did too I thought that was really really well done

I can say even though I enjoyed it a lot I think that the casting of the actor who portrayed

Jesus was a big mistake because he is the same actor that portrayed a drug dealer in training day and it was it could not erase that from my memory when

I was watching the movie and I actually thought that the film was better before they revealed visually

Jesus they could have kept that you know out of the movie as far as I'm concerned you know with having perhaps just seeing the

Centurion his facial expressions or everything else to depict him seeing

Jesus like if you remember in Ben -Hur the only the only time the only thing that you saw of Jesus was in his hand lowering a bowl of water or a or a ladle of water or something to Ben -Hur but or from behind or from very far in the distance yeah right right well

I want to make sure that we have all of the contact information that we need before we run out of time so our listeners can purchase this book first of all you can get any book by any author that we interview on Iron Sharpens Iron at CVBBS .com

our sponsors at CV for Cumberland Valley BB for Bible book

S for service .com and if you don't see it on their website when you're looking you can order from them and they will guarantee a very competitive low price so I would go to that site especially since they sponsor us and a portion of every purchase you make at CVBBS .com

goes to the Iron Sharpens Iron radio but other than that you can obviously go to Amazon and you can go to the publisher's website masterbooks .com

masterbooks .com and to go right to the book we're discussing add on to that forward slash

Noah dash man dash of dash destiny so masterbooks .com

forward slash Noah dash man dash of dash destiny and do you let's see also let's not forget the

Ark Encounter the Ark Encounter you can see more about that spectacular recreation of the

Ark at Ark Encounter .com Ark Encounter .com

Tim and Kay Marie do you have any other websites that you care to mention? My website is

Midwestapologetics .org that that's where I have my blog I also have a store on there so people can find a lot of my other books as well

I've got about a dozen of them out including a youth fiction series called the Truth Chronicles but then also several nonfiction books on there so that's at Midwestapologetics .org.

And do you have one as well Kay Marie or any other contact information? I would recommend Midwestapologetics .org.

And I'll give you her phone number that you can put out in the air, no I'm just kidding. And I know that Charlie Liebert my co -host's website is sixdaycreation .com

and that's the word six day creation .com and you have another website as well?

Yes, yourchristiananswers .com that's where my two books are offered. yourchristiananswers .com and I want to remind our listeners that on Thursday January 12th 11 a .m.

to 2 p .m. Iron Sharpens Iron is having our next pastor's luncheon this is for men in ministry leadership whether you are a pastor, elder, deacon or man in leadership in a parachurch organization you are invited to this absolutely free luncheon at the beautiful Carlisle Vault that is a historic bank that was transformed into a catering hall and we got a remarkable price for that we thank the new owners of the

Carlisle Vault so much for only charging us for the cleaning crew that's coming in after our luncheon is finished and you're gonna have a gourmet meal you're going to leave each pastor or man in leadership is going to leave with a very heavy canvas sack filled with brand new books donated to us by major Christian publishers all over the

United States and the United Kingdom and also don't forget about the following night of Friday January 13th 7 p .m.

we are having the Iron Sharpens Iron great debate between evangelical Protestant apologist

Dr. Tony Costa professor of apologetics at Toronto Baptist Seminary and Roman Catholic apologist

Robert St. Genes on the theme Mary sinless queen of heaven or sinner saved by grace that's

Friday the 13th in January 7 p .m. at the historic Carlisle Theatre email me at chrisarnson at gmail .com

if you have questions I want all of you to always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater