Dr. Brown's Top Ten List Against the Trinity

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 9 7 3 4 6 0 2 or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1. And now with today's topic here is James white.

Travel Plans and Upcoming Speaking Schedule

And welcome to an unusual Monday afternoon edition of the dividing line a jumbo edition. It's all we get to do this week. I leave tomorrow. I'll be speaking in Hefzabad, Georgia, which is now that I know just south of Augusta, Georgia and I will be speaking Wednesday Thursday and Friday evenings traveling back on Saturday looking forward the time with the brethren there.

Especially since not only do I get to speak and do all that wonderful fun stuff. But at some point in time, we're gonna be sending a few down the range and did I tell you that Mother and one of the things I'm gonna get to send down the range a little bit is a 50 caliber Browning sniper rifle.

Yeah. Looking forward to that. I can't imagine what it costs for each trigger pull, but hey, you know, I probably won't fire too many times but we've all seen those beasts on television and I've always wanted to.

I was wanting to get to. You have to aim very carefully. No, no, no that that's something you shoot prone man. Let me tell you something. It's that's on a tripod and everything. Yeah, hey, let me tell you After I took that bear with my 338 I had a black and blue One that said because it wasn't in my shoulder and I knew I wasn't holding it, right?

But there wasn't anything to do about you know tree stand. There's over there. You got it. You know, you can't excuse me. Could you move over here, please? Doesn't work that way. You just do what you got to do and that's what we did.

Anyway, so we're gonna be out of town the rest of the week and next week should be a Normal schedule for the dividing line and then October. Just it's just a mess. I'm gonna be down in Sydney and Brisbane and I don't think anything's gonna happen during that about 11 days and then I'm home for three days and I'm down, Louisiana and Who knows so maybe all the jumbos and Megas and everything else will just sort of even out.

And we'll be even after all that because we've got a lot of traveling a lot of traveling to do speaking of traveling Times running out on the Defending the Faith apologetics cruise January 2nd through 8th in 2012 that's not very far away.

We're only talking what 100 days a little over 100 days and Times ran out on that and I'm looking forward to spending time with folks on that. I've really sort of You know, I told Mike I said well, you know use me.

You know, I I'm not like a lot of folks. Okay one cruise I was like a lot of folks when we were on the Zondam and I was sick as a dog. That was ugly. That was right after I debated Greg Stafford and man Oh Sam Schmoon was on that cruise and I remember showing up to speak on the Deity of Christ and I was I literally looked like I had run into the room.

Because I was just I was sweating. I was so sick I was so bad and yet I spoke anyways, but I didn't spend a lot of time with folks on that particular cruise. Mainly because they didn't want to Do they want to get sick too but I have basically said hey, I will spend I will do what I can to be out amongst the folks and speaking and we do these theology talks and all sorts of stuff like that, so Times ran out on that.

You'll see the banner ad on our website please click on that if you were thinking about doing that this coming holiday season January 2nd to 8th of 2012. Right as I was getting ready to get started here, I had everything queued up and This is what I like about the dividing line.

This is what I like about getting to start it when we want to start it and doing it the way we want to do It and not having you know All the network issues and stuff like that and all that stuff is I'm all ready to go and I can change directions.

I'm still gonna I'm still gonna be addressing the Dean show top 10. This fits in perfectly. But Sam Schmoon sent me an email. And Here is a video that was posted today now, I don't know I don't know how turrets and fan and Sam Schmoon.

They're the two primary guys. Just out of the blue. They're always sending me emails or PMs or something like that about people ragging on me out in the internet. I don't I don't have Those types of things set up to where I'm informed whenever anybody says anything about me because I'd never get anything done if I did be perfectly honest with you but once in a while.

You know, it's it's neat to be able to respond Instantaneously, so the Assyrian Encyclopedia sent this to me and I want to play this video now the problem is the video starts off and Evidently what happened here is Lane Chaplin we can blame Lane Chaplin for this one.

Because he contacted me last week and he said hey, you know, there's some videos of you. They're just floating around YouTube and no one sees them they've got almost no views because they're not linked to any of our channels so that people can find them easily and He said would you mind if I grab them and post them on my channel?

And I said sure fine, whatever. Of course Lane does know that he he owes a portion of his massive Viewership and his many many video views to me because I've let him do that. But that's okay and I'd people see more on his channel than do I mind so He grabbed a presentation I did at Calvary Santa Fe on the Trinity and he posted it.

Well, lo and behold just today the Abrahamic movement and That's associated with Anthony buzzard. And if all of you might remember Anthony buzzard. We've talked about Anthony buzzard in the program many times before I started.

Oh, man. When was this? This was 2006 I think. Um, maybe 2005 but probably 2006 when I was preparing the debate Shabir Ali I listened to a debate between Shabir Ali and Anthony buzzard and I commented then on Anthony buzzards big argument the psalm 110 argument that is not an argument at all and Then I've been on the unbelievable radio broadcast with Anthony buzzard and then Summer before last well, I guess last summer.

I guess it's still technically summer, isn't it for what two more days something like that? I Michael Brown and I took on Anthony buzzard another gentleman on the subject of the Trinity on the Jewish voice broadcast and Portions anyways of that are floating around YouTube.

I think somewhere I've never actually seen the whole thing in chronological order, which I think is the best way to look at it. But anyway, yeah, in fact, I just now just looked over and one of the videos in the Thing, you know the box that comes up after you watch a YouTube video.

Shows a picture of Michael and I sitting next to each other and I'm smiling very nicely there. That's nice. So that's I'll have to click on that one sometime, but anyhow I'm not sure who put that probably probably the same folks I want to play this video the video takes From that's Calvary Santa Fe presentation some basic statements that I make in regards to identification of Jesus as Yahweh and The title is is Jesus Yahweh or is dr. James White wrong question mark exclamation point.

The problem is while I'd like to just play the video and respond to it I can't because the only audio portion of the video is me talking the rest of it's all just written text. So I'm gonna play it and you'll see you'll hear some nice pretty music in the background but I have to read you what it says and Respond to it, but since it was posted today and as my viewing of it had exactly 11 views.

We are talking about it pretty quickly. So thanks to the Assyrian encyclopedia for finding this. But here's here's Anthony buzzards. I assume Anthony buzzard Abrahamic movement. That's what he's associating with.

Here's here's what he has to say now. Three categories of evidence for the deity of Christ. The use of God in describing Christ. He is called God numerous times in the Bible, but especially with Jehovah's Witnesses.

That's not where I go first. Because they want to argue about gods and a God and Moses was a God to Pharaoh and blah blah blah blah blah blah blah. I go to the second. That evocation of Jesus as Yahweh because especially for Jehovah's Witness.

If Jesus is actually identified as Yahweh. The argument is over all the stuff about a God God is irrelevant if Jesus is Yahweh Jesus is God. Period end of discussion. Is Jesus Yahweh or is dr. James white wrong exposing the smoke and mirrors that is Christian Orthodoxy.

When speaking of the Trinity we need to realize that we are talking about one what and three who's. We dare not mix up the what's and who's regarding the Trinity the Forgotten Trinity page 27. But later in the same book in teaching how to counter a JW dr. White writes.

We can agree that the father is identified as Jehovah. But I believe the Bible identifies Jesus Yahweh as well and the spirit is the spirit of Yahweh. Each of these three persons share the one divine name Yahweh or Jehovah.

The Forgotten Trinity page 132. Saying Jesus Yahweh does not work for both JWs and Trinitarians. Not only because of its illogical nonsensical formulations. One Yahweh in three Yahweh's or one what in three what's?

But mainly because this is simply the Bible. This is something the Bible simply does not teach covered that this identification of Jesus as Jehovah is a lot stronger than it appears at first look. We are not saying there are three beings Yahweh that are one being Yahweh or three persons Yahweh that are one person Yahweh.

Such would be self-contradictory the Forgotten Trinity page 27. So how many Yahweh's are there question mark exclamation point? For more information blah blah blah blah blah, so there is dr. Buzzard and you know Sir, Anthony should know better than this by now.

We've we've discussed this I've explained it to him the fact that he continues to make these kind of basic category errors and and really the The idea of trying to make us well. Is it one Yahweh or three Yahweh's as as if we are identifying?

One Yahweh is the father and one Yahweh is the son one Yahweh's he knows better. I mean he's got to know better by now. Is he is he's so blinded by his position that he he can't even understand the other position.

I mean that really becomes bothersome after a while. It really does and that's where the cultic aspect comes in because when I Respond to other groups I can use their language I can I can accurately represent what they believe in their language in their lingo.

And if they can't do the same thing back that's probably indicative of some kind of a cultic deceptive element. He should at least be able to understand what it is we are saying and hence to be able to formulate his objection in such a way that it's it's a meaningful objection because.

What what are we he just hates the one what and three who's. But what is what is that referring to? It's referring to the fact that we need we have to everybody. I don't care what their viewpoint. We've seen this with Roger Perkins.

We see this with the Muslims. We see this anybody addressing this subject has to make a distinction between being in person because we live. Making the distinction between being in person. We recognize there is something called humanity.

We recognize there is something called being a human but we also recognize that there are individual human beings we clearly in our everyday existence recognize the difference the category difference between being in person and.

So when we talk about what the Bible talks about in regards to the being of God. We're not saying the being of God is impersonal like it's a rock like it's an inanimate object like you can you can Separate the being of God from from from being personal but what we are saying is that the being of God is shared by three persons and If you want to talk about, you know areas of focused self-consciousness rather than using the word person whatever you want to do as long as each of these persons can refer to the other can love the other can interact with the Other and be co-eternal because that's what the Bible teaches.

That's what we see in John 17 as we see in Philippians chapter as we see in John 1 and when people like Anthony buzzard Tried to deal with these texts they fail and they fail badly. Just as Roger Perkins fails badly and the Muslims fail badly because they're not dealing with the text on its own foundation and So it's not that there is one Yahweh in three Yahweh's or anything of the kind while the word Yahweh is Being used of the one being that is God.

There are times when there's differentiation made. I mean, who was it that laid our sins? Upon the Messiah it was Yahweh in Isaiah 53 Yahweh has laid our sins upon the Messiah and yet Despite his ingenious attempts.

But fully refuted attempts to get around Hebrews 1 and John 12 the Bible identifies Jesus as Yahweh in distinction from the Father and no one argues the Spirit isn't the Spirit of Yahweh and so you have the biblical data right there right in front of us and you can try to Confuse people and everything else if you want, but it doesn't work.

Hey, you know, you know, let's do something live here let's take a risk and Here's a clip from the debate that we did on The Jewish voice broadcast and I don't know. I'm just I've not seen it. I Just saw it.

Like I mentioned beforehand. It's it's over here. Here's the link.

Let's see, I don't think you're alive when you're dead. That's a different point of view.

Exactly when the Son of God dies, he doesn't live. Wow. Talk about taking clips without context. I mean could could we could we maybe put more than three words together in a row? Maybe. All the references we gave to the pre-existence of the Sun.

They haven't been shot down haven't been touched. The explicit references like Isaiah 6 like Genesis 18 like these other passages. The other verses that we quoted that speak of the pre-existence of the Sun tell us now that he was not created.

When he entered Miriam's womb. But now he takes on the role of Son of God as he comes into the earth in that form that his resurrection.

Declared the Son of God entered Mary's womb. Did you hear it? When he entered from outside, is that what Luke and Matthew described? I beg you to go back and read the synoptics and see if there's anything about anybody entering.

No, no that which is begotten her in her Matthew 120 I want you to read. The Greek are conceived and it's the same thing but begotten that which is father brought into existence in her.

Is so evidently the very son who is described as the creator of all things? See, this is this is again where the blindness of this kind of unbelief Michael was exactly right it we they they never even tried to make a dent in the pre-existence passages.

They didn't try and so unless you're going to cut the New Testament up into itty-bitty pieces. Which is what you know, theological liberals do it's it's what the cults do. Then what Matthew and Luke are talking about?

Has to be informed by the entirety of divine revelation and at least buzzard would I think I Think except that I mean a lot of the sources he quotes are pretty liberal and Most of liberalism would say no.

No, no, no what what Paul believed is irrelevant. But what what you know, you know. You have to you have to take each individual and and only what they believed and that there could there there is no you know when when James Dunn talks about unity and diversity in the New Testament.

The emphasis is on diversity not unity and you you cannot you cannot look for a Whole truth in divine revelation and that's why. The cults and false teachers are always attacking the authority the Word of God so that you cannot have a Consistent teaching that is pan-canonical that comes from all over the canon of Scripture.

You can't have that you're not allowed to have that and sadly in many theological seminaries say you're not allowed to have that.

Is the Son of God a human being?

And the Sun is eternally pre-existent. We've seen all the texts that say so I read know what I do is I don't start reading in Matthew. I start reading in the Tanakh the Hebrew Scriptures. By the time I get to Matthew I already see the pre-existence on so it's again It's very clear and John one makes it abundantly clear for anyone that might have missed.

The writers say the atonement rests on knowing that the Son of God was the second human Adam. For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners Man capitalized so by the one man's obedience the many would made righteous as if Paul's point in Romans 5 is a Jesus a mere Man, and that the Son of God did not pre-exist over against his clear teaching in Colossians and elsewhere.

Which again you can get away with if you're a good theological liberal and you don't think that Paul wrote Colossians or something like that. Or Paul contradicted himself or whatever. You can get away with all that stuff if you want to.

You know, dr. Buzzard knows I challenged him on unbelievable to debate me one-on-one and I am still up for that because his exegesis is Not survivable when it comes to cross-examination it fell apart on the Jewish voice broadcast.

It would fall apart if if we continued to do that kind of engagement. It really would so anyways, there you go there's there's that and I Think it's fun. Do you have an opportunity? to immediately respond to things like that and once again many thanks for the Assyrian a cycle encyclopedia letting me know all about that and Getting a chance to respond to it now a couple weeks ago.

I know it was his first week in September I was pointed to again by the Assyrian encyclopedia to a Dean show episode with dr Lawrence Brown Who I believe is an ophthalmologist if I recall correctly retired US Air Force and He is a convert to to Islam who says he tried very hard to be a Christian now you know, we have talked about the Dean show before and We have a standing challenge To to Eddie of the Dean show to many people who appeared on the Dean show To debate and it's funny Eddie says we want we want to bring you the best we want to bring you well.

Then Eddie I think if you really really really mean that you need to start either bringing better people on or you need to start allowing another voice to be heard. I'd be happy to have these people come on the program.

But much more so I would be happy to debate these people in full recorded scholarly debate on the issues that they raise especially since the the the topic seems so often to be Anti-christian topics the Trinity and things like that now Eddie seems to be completely confused and I guess I can understand why if he's really believing what he's being told by all these people like Zucker Nike and and the Lawrence Brown and and the former youth minister that I did I ever get done with the his top ten if I didn't I I apologize and I should have I remember starting out a couple Years ago, but young fellow I'd be happy again to to debate in respectful But full debate on these issues.

We'd be happy to do that and have done so many times in the past but anyway, I Started listening to this. Why is it? That people are considered to be Christian scholars. This man's called a Christian scholar and yet by his own testimony He tried real hard to be a Christian but couldn't do it and he never believed the Jesus the Son of God.

He never believed in the deity of Christ. Why do you call someone like that a Christian? I mean I'd ask us of Eddie. He's the host of the program and I've I've written to the Dean show and and the folks who responded Eddie didn't respond.

I tried to try to write to Eddie, but he didn't respond. These other folks responded and quite honestly it was very obvious to me English was not their first language and It was very difficult to try to communicate with them and I got the standard Well to be perfectly honest with you very arrogant Arabic responses.

From a number of these folks where they just didn't understand what was being said or the challenges are being made or anything like that. But I would I would ask Eddie If someone comes along and They say you know I Tried to be a Muslim.

I really tried to be a Muslim. But I could never believe that the Quran was the Word of God or the Muhammad was a prophet. But I tried to be a Muslim. Would you consider this man an Expert on Islam would you consider him a former Muslim if he didn't believe that the Quran is the Word of God and If he didn't believe that Muhammad is a prophet and he wasn't a Muslim.

There's no trying is there and If you don't believe in the deity of Christ, you don't believe the son of God you're never Christian. Period end of discussion. You can call yourself whatever you were. You know, whatever term you want to use just don't say Christian.

Because you weren't you didn't try. You were a heretic from day one. I Don't understand this. How come Islam gets to be so Easily identified but Christianity we try to end up. Oh god. No, it's you know, you've got these people.

They're Christians over here and they you know, they can deny the resurrection or they can deny the crucifixion. They can I the deed of Christ and deny the Bible, but they're all Christians because they use the name Jesus.

Well, I guess that makes all Muslims Christians too because they use the name Jesus too. Well, actually they don't they use ESA, but anyway, I Mean, it's just it is it is debating via definition rather than via truth.

Doesn't make any sense. Whatsoever and yet these are the people that are constantly trotted out on the Dean show and I'm trying to think. Has the Dean show had anybody on it that actually does debate that actually is willing to stand behind what they say.

III don't know that Abdullah Kunduz been on there. I don't think that Abdullah and Lucy or Bassam Zawadi or Shabir Ali has been on there I Has Adam Dean been on there? I'm not sure I'd have to look. I'd have to look that up to see if they have.

But I know Zucker Nike won't. He won't stand he won't stand up he won't he won't debate people that are actually capable of exposing his just grossly. A constant errors. I think just especially when it comes to the Bible.

He won't take them on. Because all he's done is he's just borrowed everything from aqua D dot repeats it from so he doesn't know for himself. We would challenge him any day. He won't do it. We would debate him any day.

He's been challenged and this challenge stands and The only response goes well, you know, you've got to come up with 10 ,000 people to attend or blah blah blah blah. And we've said well, we'll do it on on ABN more than 10 ,000 people watching that.

Well, it's just very busy, you know. Yeah, well, okay Zucker Nike could not do a meaningful scholarly debate of his life dependent on it. He is totally dependent upon gamesmanship and showmanship and if he had to actually Answer direct questions could be held by a moderator to answer direct questions from the text of the Bible of the Quran.

He would collapse In a quivering mass. That's what would happen and that's why you won't do it. But anyways, we want to listen to the Dean show. We want to listen to these top 10 the top 10 reasons not to believe in the Trinity by Here on the program and Then we'll go from there.

You know, I just realized I totally forgot to bring in one of the books that I need to have so maybe at some point I will be able to Get someone to grab that for me while we while we while we look at this, but let's.

There's a big pile of big pile of books near the Lava lamp. I think at the very bottom is Harper's Bible Dictionary which is a wonderful source of Information it's one things quoted by dr. Brown as if it's a theological source of truth.

But anyhow, let's let's listen to the beginning.

The Dean Show Introduction and Dr. Brown’s Background

Bismillah. Alhamdulillah. Assalamu alaikum. Peace be with you. I'm Eddie host. You are watching the Dean show. Thank you for coming back for another great episode. We got dr. Lawrence Brown. It's exciting exciting.

He's back with us again. We had to get someone who is well-versed in Christianity to talk about the next topic. We don't want to offend nobody. We really want the best for our brothers in humanity. Some people are confused and we want to clear the confusion and now Dr. Brown who was an atheist you can go to the Dean show .com.

He has his own private section there to hear his story. He was an atheist. He was trying very hard to be a Christian the whole doctrine of the Trinity and many of the other tenants Of Christianity didn't make sense and he ended up coming to Islam.

Islam the same way of life of Jesus Moses Abraham Noah that complete and total adherence to God's laws that complete Submission and surrender to the one God alone and not his creation. So when we come back, we're gonna be clearing up the confusion about the Trinity.

The Trinity is going to be giving us the top ten reasons why the Trinity is not.

Valid when we come back here in a Dean show don't now so so here we've got someone who never believed in it always rejected it and He's an expert on it. He he's he's an expert. Why is he an expert? We're not told why he is an expert, but he's he's the.

All praise be to Allah. It's a pleasure to have you back with us here at the Dean show and I got to just describe a little bit. About our past. We have your conversion story. We've done some shows with you in the past and you have.

At the Dean show comm your own private section so people can read a little bit more about you. Get to know who you are. Watch some of the other videos, but in this week's show We're gonna be talking about the Trinity.

You have a DD doctor in divinity PhD in religious studies and you're very well-versed. Some will consider you a Christian scholar.

So we want to talk to the expert Christian scholar. Why? Why would he be considered a Christian scholar? We're gonna hear him for example opining on the Kami Ohanian as if this is we're talking about stuff that that first-year Bible students know all about as if It's a great Insight or something like that.

Why why is he considered a Christian scholar when he's actually a he never was a Christian and he's a Muslim. Why. Why isn't if If the roles reversed wouldn't the Muslims be identifying him as an anti-muslim scholar if the roles were reversed.

Wouldn't wouldn't charges of Islamophobia and all the rest that stuff be flying fast and furious.

I have a I have a feeling it was and there's some a lot of confusion about this Trinity. So We know that the Quran says that this is something that Jesus or none of the messages never taught. The consistent message that God has always declared through the out time that he is only one Undividable not three and one one and three just one and we believe Jesus taught the same teaching.

But there's some confusion about the Trinity. So you're gonna be giving us today the top ten reasons why the Trinity is not valid. I don't want to waste their time your time to just get right to it the top ten.

Please begin the top ten reasons. Are you ready? Are you ready now?

Why the Trinity Is Not in Scripture

The top ten reasons if if I were asked to give the top ten reasons Why the Quran is not the Word of God? Wouldn't you expect? That in the giving of those top ten reasons I would show Some familiarity to to some depth to at least some accuracy in having a knowledge of Not only the the text of the Quran itself But of How it was revealed The historical context in which it was revealed the language in which it was revealed its own apologetic.

Because as you may know the the Quran Shows evidence that during the period of its revelation especially during the Meccan period There are many people are saying these are just old tales that we all know.

This is nothing new. This isn't coming from God. This is this we've heard these old tales before That is found in the text of the Quran itself. There's a concern on the part of the author that the authority of this Revelation would be undercut by its reliance upon previous Sources and so you would expect that if I were to give top ten reasons Maybe at least when I point to sections that seem To be drawn from other sources that I would at least be familiar with what those sources are.

Maybe I might know a little something about the infancy Gospels. Because well, you know Jesus does speak from his cradle in the infancy Narratives, but they were written like in the 5th century and and that does appear in the Quran and you know the the clay bird stuff, you know that goes back to the infancy gospel of Thomas and and you know, it might be good if I've read those things and Have them in their original languages and in my library sitting on my shelf and on my iPad and stuff like that and maybe have some knowledge at least of how modern Muslims a Defend the Quran and some of the arguments are used along those lines is what you'd at least expect something like that.

But what we get from dr. Brown isn't anywhere near that. It's not even it's not even close and in fact it would it would strike me anyway That if Eddie Has been listening very well to Those with whom he has had dialogue before I've heard better top ten lists.

I Haven't heard any good top ten lists. I've heard better and It would it would seem to me that it would make him go. Hmm. Why is why is this guy, you know, not really? Not not really up to snuff on this I Mean, I'm just describing him as a as a Christian scholar and and yet.

Well, let's let's start with number ten. Okay.

Number ten. The word Trinity is nowhere to be found in the Bible. Now the word Trinity is not as important as finding the actual doctrine. So.

Number nine now. Whoa. Hit the skids stop the stop the the bus however else you want to or else you want to put it here. The word Trinity is Not in the Bible, but he immediately says but it's more important to find the concept than the word anyway.

So why is that an objection? Why is that an objection. It's there is a very very simple response to this that that my my learned and rational Muslim friends will recognize and that is there are all sorts of important Theological words for Islam that are not in the Quran the concept of ahad.

The very term is found in for example, surah 112 but Tauheed the central defining principle of Islamic theology Tauheed the unity of Allah. Tauheed is not found in the Quran. Not that form of the word.

Now you can go well over here as soon as you go well over here. It tells us this is that not what I'm saying about the Trinity. That when you take all of the biblical revelation as a whole it teaches that there is only one true God yet.

It identifies three divine persons father son spirit and differentiates between those persons and that is the doctrine of the Trinity so Unless you're willing to use double standards, which if you are is the immediate admission.

That you're not arguing truthfully. When you use even use a different standard for me than you use for yourself. Then you just lost the debate and it is my assertion. I have yet to debate a Muslim who did not do that.

Every single Muslim I've ever debated used a different standard and dr Brown's could be one of them too because the sources he draws from. There's no way he'd accept the same kind of liberalism about Islam that he does about Christianity.

He's enamored with liberal sources. I Don't think he's enamored with liberal Islam. I just don't find any of them to be consistent as soon as you adopt a different set of standards for me. Then you've lost the debate and my Christian friends will tell you my fellow Christian apologists who debate with Muslims will tell you That I'm constantly beating the drum that we need to use the same standard in Criticizing Islam that we use in defending Christianity.

And yes, that means there are certain arguments. We will not use that may have great emotional impact. But if we love the truth, we won't use them so we can look somebody straight in the eye and say yes I am seeking to honor him who is the truth by being consistent in my Argumentation.

Yeah, it makes you unpopular. But that's the way it goes. That's the way it it just has to be that way. It has to be that way. So that's what we we want to do. So Top ten number ten irrelevant by his own confession.

It is utterly irrelevant that the word itself does not appear because we have never said that it does we have always said the doctrine Trinity is Derived from the fullness of biblical revelation. That's we've always said.

We've not said that the Bible is some kind of systematic theology where you look up it in a in the index in the back. And well, here's where you you get this and here's me. It's not it's not a printer manual.

It's not a computer manual it is a record of God's self revelation and his salvation of a special people and We derive our beliefs from the examination of that record that Must be understood. So number ten.

Irrelevant, so you just jump. You did this. Don't look. Ten is done. We're not waiting the whole time. All right. Let's take it to not. Let's take it to. Number nine. Ten is done. You don't find the word Trinity anywhere in the Bible.

That was simple. That was easy. Okay, but as I said, the word is not as important as the doctrines. So the question is do we find the doctrine in the Bible? We go on a nine then number nine. Harper Collins encyclopedia of the Bible states quote the doctrine of the Trinity as such is Not revealed in either the Old Testament or the New Testament.

Harper Collins encyclopedia of the Bible telling us what. Telling us I'll say it again. Quote. The doctrine of the Trinity as such is not revealed in either the Old Testament or the New Testament.

So now we have now I got I even ordered the Harper's Bible Dictionary. But that evidently isn't the same thing. He has the Harper Collins. And it says the formal doctrine of Trinity as it was defined with the great church councils.

The four of the fifth centuries is not to be found in the New Testament. Nevertheless the discussion above and especially the presence of Trinitarian formulisms first and second Corinthians 13 14. Which is strikingly early and Matthew 28 19 indicated the origin of this mode of thought may be found in very early in Christian history.