WWUTT 2175 Q&A Marks of a Healthy Church, Masculine Legalism, When is the Rapture

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June 7, 2024

Responding to questions from listeners about the three marks of a healthy church, can a credobaptist attend a paedobaptist church, how do we confront the hyper-masculine movement in Calvinist churches, and when is the rapture in the 7-year period of tribulation. Visit wwutt.com for all our videos!

00:00: What are the essential marks of a healthy church? How do we combat hyper -masculine legalism that is rising up in many
00:07: Reformed churches? Does the rapture come at the beginning or the end of a seven -year period of tribulation?
00:13: The answers when we understand the text. This is when we understand the text, a daily
00:27: Bible study in the Word of God that we may comprehend with all the saints how wide, how high, and how deep is the love of Christ.
00:35: Tell all your friends about our ministry at www .wutt .com. Here once again is
00:40: Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky, who is not in studio with me this week and won't be in studio with me next week either.
00:47: Becky is presently in Kansas. Her grandmother passed away just this past Sunday. And Becky was already on her way to Kansas.
00:56: She already had her tickets to get there, was hoping to see her grandmother one last time and wasn't able to get there in time.
01:01: She wasn't going to arrive until Tuesday, and Ruth passed away on Sunday. She's there for the funeral, though, which will be tomorrow.
01:08: And she's also with our oldest daughter, Annie, who is 16. Annie will go away to camp next week, and Becky's going to make her way down to Texas and spend some time with friends there and probably even do a little bit of work on our house that we have in Texas that hasn't yet sold.
01:23: I know some of you have been praying for us regarding that. So she'll probably do a little bit of work while she's there also.
01:29: Your prayers for our family, for comfort during this time and for Becky and Annie's safe travels would be greatly appreciated.
01:37: This is the Friday edition of the broadcast when we take questions from the listeners and you can submit those questions to when we understand the text at Gmail dot com.
01:46: I've got a lot of questions this week. Busy week. I think I fielded 20 questions just from our
01:53: Gmail inbox. I'm not going to respond to all of them. I will respond to a few of them just in writing response.
02:01: I think a couple of more kind of of a personal nature. It would be better just to respond to them directly. We also have a voicemail to respond to today.
02:08: And by the way, you can also leave us voicemail. You can ask a question that way by going to W .W
02:14: .U .T .T. dot com. And right there at the top of the page, you'll see on the menu bar it says voicemail.
02:19: Click on that. It'll take you right to the link. You can record the voicemail either from your phone or from your computer.
02:27: So I've got a voicemail to respond to and maybe about four or five other messages. We'll see how far we get.
02:32: And whatever I don't get to, we will just move on to next week. But don't forget, once again, the email address is when we understand the text at Gmail dot com or leave a voicemail at W .W
02:44: .U .T .T. dot com. Before getting to these questions, let me pick up where we left off in our study of Psalm 18.
02:51: So this is verses 30 to 36 out of the Legacy Standard Bible. Hear the word of the Lord.
02:57: As for God, his way is blameless. The word of Yahweh is tried.
03:03: He is a shield to all who take refuge in him. For who is God but Yahweh?
03:09: And who is a rock except our God, the God who girds me with strength and makes my way blameless?
03:17: He makes my feet like hinds feet and sets me upon my high places.
03:23: He trains my hands for battle so that my arms can bend a bow of bronze.
03:29: You have also given me the shield of your salvation, and your right hand upholds me, and your gentleness makes me great.
03:38: You enlarge my steps under me, and my ankles have not given way.
03:44: Now, what do you see as being thematic in this particular section? What seems to be that recurring theme?
03:51: But being established, my feet firm upon a rock, my feet like hinds feet, my ankles have not given way.
03:59: So God sets us in the place where we are, and he holds us firm there, and will not let the circumstances and trials that come our way or the enemies that might oppose us.
04:11: He will not let us be moved is another expression that you've probably heard from scripture.
04:17: Psalm 30, verse 6. Now, as for me, I said in my prosperity, I will never be shaken.
04:22: Or in the King James, I shall never be moved. God establishes our steps, and he is the one who upholds us with his mighty hand, as we've heard previously here in Psalm 18.
04:35: As for God, his way is blameless. If we walk the way of God, we've talked about that on the podcast earlier this week, as we've been in Mark chapter 7.
04:46: If we walk the way that he directs us to go according to his word, we are blameless because his way is the right way.
04:54: He is the one who has established truth. In God's way, we stand before him as righteous, for he has given us the righteousness of Christ, all those who believe in him.
05:06: Remember, as we contrasted God's way with the Pharisee's way in Mark 7 earlier this week, the traditions of man that we also see play out in our world today, and even in some facets of Christianity or evangelicalism, people who try to establish man's traditions over God's way.
05:24: That is not the way that we attain righteousness. We cannot be righteous in that way. In fact, we can't even keep man's way, let alone
05:32: God's way. But we try to go according to man's rules, we will not be blameless.
05:37: We will stand in judgment before God. But if we desire Christ and walk in his commands, walking after the way of Christ that has been set before us, 1
05:47: John 2, 6, for example, then our way will be blameless, and we will be greatly rewarded. The word of Yahweh is tried.
05:54: He is a shield to all who take refuge in him, the word of Yahweh. So how do we know which way to go that is blameless?
06:04: It is according to what God's word says. For who is God but Yahweh, verse 31, and who is a rock except our
06:13: God, the God who girds me with strength and makes my way blameless?
06:21: It's not that whatever we do is therefore blameless because I have God on my side.
06:27: How is our way made blameless? Because we would go the way of God, the way that he directs us to go.
06:33: In those places where we have faltered and where we have sinned, God forgives and he atones for our sin so that there is no fault in our way.
06:43: Not that we've never done anything wrong, but God justifies us by his grace that our way may be upheld as blameless.
06:52: He makes my feet like Heinz feet and sets me upon high places.
06:57: That's a parallelism. So what is making my feet like Heinz feet? Well, this is like a ram that would ascend a steep rock wall in the mountains.
07:07: Have you ever seen deer or rams or the mountain goats up there and just how nimble they are to climb what would seem like sheer rock faces?
07:18: You would not even think that anybody could perceptively climb a rock such as that.
07:24: And when you look up there, you see a bighorn sheep standing there on what's practically a vertical rock wall.
07:31: Have you ever seen that before? Traveling through the Rockies? I've seen that. We don't have many mountain goats out here in Arizona, even though we do have plenty of mountains.
07:40: But if you've ever seen anything like that, it's like God has specifically fashioned their feet to be able to ascend high places such as this.
07:50: And here, the psalmist here, David, is saying that my feet have been made in such a way that I can ascend places that would otherwise be impossible.
07:59: With God, all things are possible. I am able to follow God's way with precision because he has given me the right kind of feet to be able to walk in the way that he has set for us to walk.
08:15: He trains my hands for battle, verse 34, so that my arms can bend a bow of bronze, strength that comes from the
08:23: Lord. You're familiar with Philippians 4 .13. I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me.
08:31: It's not my strength. It is God's strength working through me. That's also what it means to be meek, by the way.
08:38: It is God's strength working through us. That's a definition of meekness according to Helps Word Studies.
08:44: I still remember that one. Verse 35, you have also given me the shield of your salvation, and your right hand upholds me, and your gentleness makes me great.
08:56: So whatever the world has to throw at us will not remove us from the salvation of God, for his salvation guards us and protects us.
09:06: As Jesus said in John 10, no one will snatch them out of my hand. Nothing that the devil throws at us, not the world schemes, not even our own flesh can remove us from the salvation that we are promised in Jesus Christ.
09:21: Your right hand upholds me. It's not because of anything that we do. It is because of the grace of God.
09:28: As we talk about the doctrines of grace, you're familiar with the doctrine of grace that is called the perseverance of the saints.
09:35: Well, as I've heard R .C. Sproul say, I don't really like that word perseverance because it makes it sound like it's dependent on us to persevere when the reality of it is, according to the doctrine itself, that we are preserved.
09:48: We don't persevere. So it's better said that it is the preservation of the saints because it is
09:54: God who is the one who upholds us. The doxology at the conclusion of the book of Jude, to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to make you stand, to make you stand in the presence of his glory, blameless with great joy.
10:13: That sounds like Psalm 18 there, doesn't it? To the only God, our savior through Jesus Christ, our
10:19: Lord, be glory, majesty, might and authority before all time and now and forever.
10:26: Amen. Your gentleness makes me great. Not that God gives us strength that we may impress people.
10:35: Look at how strong and mighty I am. But it's the gentleness of God that makes us great.
10:42: Verse 36, you enlarge my steps under me and my ankles have not given way.
10:49: Once again, it is God who is the one who has established us and will uphold us and bring us into his kingdom in the end.
11:01: Amen. All right, let's get to some of these questions today. This first one comes from Travis, and he begins quoting a section from an article that was in,
11:12: I believe it was in Table Talk Magazine. I found it on Ligonier's website. It's entitled, How Do We Define the
11:17: Church? And here is the paragraph as it was written from Eric Watkins. He says the following, the church is identified by three marks, the faithful preaching of God's word, the proper administration of the sacraments, and church discipline.
11:33: These are the essential qualities of a church. These are the things that matter most in a church, not the style of music, the length of the service, or the number of people our age.
11:45: The marks and means of the church are essential to her identity and should be at the core of how we think about the church.
11:54: Now, I agree with that, with what Watkins wrote there. I would just add this qualifier.
12:01: So he says the church is identified by three marks. I would actually say it's two. So he says the faithful preaching of God's word, the proper administration of the sacraments, and church discipline.
12:11: Church discipline should actually fall under the proper administration of the sacraments. Because when it comes to baptism, you baptize a person who has made a credible confession of faith.
12:22: Even if we take the Presbyterian view or the Lutheran view, baptizing infants, still there you have a credible confession of faith.
12:31: Because whose confession of faith would even the Paedo -Baptist be relying upon?
12:36: It would be the confession of faith of the parents. So either way, whether you're taking the Paedo -Baptist view or the correct view, the
12:44: Credo -Baptist view, the Baptist view, you're still relying upon a person's credible confession of faith.
12:50: You are listening to their confession and you are, as a church, saying, we acknowledge this person is a follower of Jesus Christ.
12:59: And then being baptized, demonstrating in their confession that I am buried with Christ in my sins and I am risen again to walk in newness of life.
13:08: The other sacrament being the Lord's table. And if you are disciplining the people in your church properly, then you won't allow a person who is under some serious sin to come to the table lest they eat and drink judgment on themselves, according to what
13:23: Paul says in 1 Corinthians 11. So examine yourself, Paul says, that you would not partake in this table in an unworthy manner.
13:32: So the matters of church discipline fall under the sacraments. So therefore, the two marks that you would be looking for in a faithful church would be the faithful preaching of God's word and the proper administration of the sacraments.
13:48: Church discipline? Fine. It's just kind of sectioned out as a subcategory of the proper administration of the sacraments.
13:56: But all that to say, I agree with what Watkins said there. So Travis presents his question.
14:02: He says this, given the above truths about how God defines the corporate gathering of people, if one of these essentials is not taking place, then is it a biblical church?
14:14: Let's just go with what it was that Watkins presented here. So the faithful preaching of God's word, the proper administration of the sacraments and church discipline.
14:22: If one of those essential elements is not taking place, is it a biblical church? Travis continues.
14:28: The reason I ask is because we live in an area that is overrun with Mennonite, Amish and Brethren style churches, as well as charismatic and NAR style churches.
14:39: By God's grace, there is one reformed church in our community, which my wife and I have been faithful members of for years.
14:46: More recently, though, as God has been sanctifying me and convicting me of certain things, I have not been able to reconcile our church's practice of covenant infant baptism with scripture.
14:59: I have been praying about this issue for some time and have done extensive research into both the credo and pedo
15:05: Baptist position, and my conviction of being a credo Baptist has only grown stronger.
15:11: Am I sinning by staying in this church? Is it accurate to say that if a pastor does not properly administer the sacraments, then it cannot be called a church?
15:23: Is this an area of theology that falls under Christian liberty? How am
15:29: I to view my dear brothers and sisters in Christ who practice pedo baptism, and can
15:35: I in good conscience be a member of a church if the only thing I disagree with is baptism?
15:44: Well, Travis, this may not be the answer that you're looking for, but my response to you would be,
15:50: I don't know. And I don't know that I can make that decision for you. This really is going to be a matter of your own conscience.
15:57: And it sounds like that you have investigated the matter thoroughly, and therefore you are going to have to come to a decision.
16:05: Can you in good conscience continue in membership with this church, given that you are now fully convinced of your credo
16:14: Baptist convictions? Can you remain in good standing with that church and participating in membership?
16:21: Or do you now find a cause for division here that you can't in good conscience continue in faithful membership with that church and therefore have to find another congregation?
16:33: Like you said, there's no other reform congregation around you. So where is it that you would go?
16:38: And I don't know that I can answer that question for you either. So you have said there are many churches around the area that include
16:46: Mennonite, Amish, and Brethren style churches. Now, I'll tell you, I was baptized in a Mennonite church, but I was much less mature then.
16:54: I was a teenager and I was going to the church that my parents went to. So, of course, being subject to my parents, that was the church that I attended.
17:01: And it was fine. The preaching there was biblical. And that was the reason why we were there. Wherever we moved, when we went to a new community, my dad would find the church with the faithful biblical teaching, the gospel being proclaimed and sin being called out.
17:15: And if he could find that church, then that was where my family attended. So it was a Mennonite church where I was baptized.
17:23: But yeah, the charismatic and NAR style churches, well, NAR is heretical anyway.
17:28: And so those are definitely congregations that you should stay away from. You have found the one reformed church in your community.
17:34: But of course, this being reformed on the side of paedo -baptism, where they baptize infants.
17:41: Now, we have in my church, in a reformed Baptist church here in Casa Grande, Arizona, we do have members in our congregation who are confessionally paedo -baptist.
17:52: When I say members, we have congregants. Let me just put it that way.
17:57: They're not members. If they're paedo -baptists, they don't join in membership. And we have an understanding of one another with regard to those things.
18:05: They can't vote, but they want to go somewhere where they know that the preaching is solid and that the fellowship is reformed, is of a reformed conviction.
18:13: So they come to our church for that purpose, for that reason. And we're happy to have them there, but they can't join in the membership and therefore make voting decisions and things like that for our congregation and give input with regard to some of those things, because we don't want the paedo -baptist conviction to be directing the polity of our church, if that makes sense.
18:34: Even the understanding or the application of how we read the covenants.
18:40: I would still call them my brethren, happy to have them with us in our congregation. They just can't be members.
18:46: And this has been the case everywhere that I've been a pastor at the church in Texas, the church in Kansas. We would have people that would come that were
18:53: Presbyterian. In Junction City, Kansas, the only Presbyterian church was PCUSA.
18:59: And they became, of course, very liberal and affirming of LGBTQ clergy.
19:06: And so those Presbyterians that would move to our community could not in good conscience attend that church, but they loved being able to come to our church, even though we had disagreements on sacraments, of course, with baptism and things of that nature.
19:19: I did not withhold communion from them. I did not withhold from them the Lord's table. I said, that is a matter of conscience between you and God.
19:26: And I've not seen anything in your life for any purpose that I would have to call you out or confront you, even though they were not formally members of our church.
19:36: I still considered them part of my flock in a certain sense. And so I would still look out for them, even though the members, of course, would get the priority, but they still were part of our congregation and would fellowship with us in good conscience on both ends.
19:51: My conscience was clear in the matter and so was theirs. And so that just to kind of give you my experience with regards to churches that I have pastored and where we've had people within our congregation that are
20:03: Pato Baptist by conviction can't join the membership, but are welcome to be there to hear the word preached and happy to have brethren that I can call brethren, even though we might disagree on a secondary matter such as this.
20:18: And this is a secondary issue, not a primary issue. Those secondary issues are what separates us out in into different denominations and congregations.
20:28: It's the reason why a Presbyterian wants to have his own church and a Baptist wants to have his own church.
20:33: Because of these matters, we can agree soteriologically on everything else on matters of of salvation doctrine.
20:40: But with regard to administration of the sacraments, that's where we disagree. And so that's why we have bodies that have been broken up into this way.
20:48: I wish it wasn't that way. I wish everybody would be credo Baptist, meaning that it is by a person's profession of faith that we would therefore administer baptism, not not baptizing infants, which is the
21:01: Pato Baptist view. So again, Travis, giving you my experience, I hope would kind of help you make up your mind about that a little bit.
21:08: But I can't tell you one way or the other if you're sinning or not by remaining in the church where you are, because that is between you and the
21:18: Lord. If in your conscience, you don't feel like that you can remain there, then you're going to have to make a decision as to the next step that you're going to take and where you're going to end up going to church.
21:29: My advice, my general counsel is don't divide if you don't have to. And it doesn't sound like you have a whole lot of other options.
21:37: If there was another credo Baptist church in town, then I would tell you, well, go to the reformed
21:42: Baptist church. Absolutely. That's where your convictions are leading you. Then that's the direction that you should go.
21:47: Since you don't have that option, if you don't think that this needs to be a cause for division, then don't make it one.
21:55: Although I would be openly honest with your elders. If this is a place where you do have membership there, you've been a member of this church, they would have you on the membership roles.
22:05: In other words, you need to be honest with your elders and tell them, here's where my convictions have gone.
22:10: And maybe they might help you make up your mind for you. But you need to have that conversation with them.
22:15: I thank you for your email, and I'm going to pray for you. Let me pray for you right now before we continue on to this next question here.
22:22: Heavenly Father, I thank you for Travis, and I thank you for the way that your spirit has been working in his heart to investigate these matters, to study the scriptures and desire to know more about proper worship in the house of God.
22:35: For as it said in first Timothy 315, it is the church that is the pillar and the buttress of the truth.
22:41: And so we have been given directions as to how we are to conduct ourselves in the household of God.
22:48: And I thank you that Travis wants to do that more and more to the glory of your name. But as said in Romans 14, not quarreling over opinions, but welcoming one another.
22:57: So give Travis a heart that desires to be in unity with his pedobaptist brethren and also a spirit of wisdom so that as he talks to his elders about these things, he knows exactly the words that he needs to say.
23:09: And he's going to be receptive to instruction and direction as well. In all things, may we give glory to God.
23:16: And we thank you for your goodness to us in Christ. It is because of what
23:22: Christ has done for us with his death on the cross, his resurrection from the dead, so that in Jesus Christ, we have fellowship with God and the promise of eternal life.
23:33: It is because of that, that we desire this fellowship within the body of Christ and to do so to the glory of your name.
23:40: It is in Jesus name that we pray. Amen. Thank you again, Travis. This next one's a voicemail.
23:46: This comes from James. Let me play it here and then respond. Here we go. Hi Gabe and Becky.
23:52: My name is James. Recently, a new pastor has been coming across my feed and I'm getting some
23:57: Driscoll 2 .0 vibes from him. Funny thing is that he just did a podcast with Driscoll and John Lovell.
24:05: Right now I feel like I should keep his content at arm's distance, but that gets me thinking and I'd like to get your thoughts on it.
24:13: What do you think of this hyper -masculinization that is happening in the non -reformed, but Calvinistic camp?
24:20: It seems like the main push is to be a strong man and then that will lead into biblical masculinity, which seems kind of backwards to me.
24:30: Is this an overcorrection of the emasculated evangelicalism of the late 90s and early 2000s?
24:38: Thank you very much for your ministry. I really appreciate what you put out. Thank you so much for your question,
24:44: James. Well, first of all, our ideal model for biblical masculinity is going to be
24:50: Jesus Christ. Of course. How do you be a man of God? You look first at Christ.
24:55: Consider 1 John 2, beginning in verse 1. My little children, I am writing these things to you so that you may not sin.
25:04: And if anyone sins, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ, the righteous.
25:10: And he himself is the propitiation for our sins and not for ours only, but also for those of the whole world.
25:18: And by this, we know that we have come to know him if we keep his commandments.
25:24: The one who says, I have come to know him and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him.
25:32: But whoever keeps his word truly in him, the love of God has been perfected. By this, we know that we are in him.
25:41: The one who says he abides in him ought himself to walk in the same manner as he walked.
25:48: And just as Jesus submitted to the will of the Father and kept all the commands of the
25:53: Father perfectly, so we should desire to do the same. And this is biblical manhood.
26:00: It is being like Christ. There is this hyper -masculinity that is growing, as James had talked about there.
26:07: It's almost kind of a resurgence of hyper -masculinity because we see this come in waves. It happened, as James mentioned several years ago with Mark Driscoll.
26:15: And Driscoll's making a comeback. A decade later, here he is again and starting to make headlines with all of his braggadocious stuff that he does, going way out there, trying to be extreme.
26:28: And the more extreme that he can be, the more attention that he's going to get. Right now, it seems that he's been on this spiritual warfare kick, although it's very much on the charismatic side of spiritual warfare, not the way that scripture gives it to us.
26:42: But these things are stirring interest, especially among young men in our culture that are pushing back against the effeminization of men in our culture and the rise of the
26:52: LGBTQ movement. The problem is a lot of these young men are swinging too far the other direction, and it is becoming, as James said, a hyper -masculine thing or a legalistic thing would probably be the better way to say it.
27:05: And we've been talking about these legalistic things on the broadcast this week, as we've been in Mark 7, and we're going to continue with that more this week if you want to join me for our
27:14: New Testament study Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, as we'll continue that study in Mark 7.
27:20: So how do we combat this? How do we push back against kind of the hyper -masculinity thing that's happening?
27:25: And as James mentioned, a lot of Calvinistic circles may not necessarily be reformed. They may not follow the confession or a reformed confession the way that they should.
27:35: It does seem to begin with this masculine model. And then if we can attain to this level of masculinity, then everything else as far as biblical manhood will begin to fall into place.
27:47: But who should we be pursuing? We should be looking at Christ and pursuing Christ. So to combat this tendency, this really needs to begin in yourself, first of all, that you desire to be a man of God and you pursue those things.
28:00: 1 Corinthians 16, verse 13 is one of those verses that gets used by some of these hyper -masculine guys.
28:09: Be watchful. Stand firm in the faith. Act like men. Be strong. But don't miss the next verse.
28:16: Let all that you do be done in love. So you can act like a macho guy if you're not doing it in love.
28:22: It means nothing. That really goes back to the rebuke that Paul gave to the church in Corinth back in chapter 13.
28:29: If I have all knowledge, I can fathom all the world's wisdom. Or if I can speak in the tongues of men and angels, but I have not love, then
28:37: I'm nothing. I'm a noisy gong or a resounding cymbal. And so it would be the same way with those who aspire to this hyper -masculinity.
28:46: And if I can achieve this certain level of masculinity, then all the biblical stuff will fall into place.
28:52: Well, once again, it's pursuing masculinity without love. Then it means nothing. A lot of people, a lot of guys can be masculine, but not be godly.
29:02: And so it's godliness that we need to pursue. And in pursuing godliness, then we will find ourselves to be men of God.
29:10: I'm presently in 2 Timothy with my church. That's the series that I'm preaching through at the moment.
29:17: And there the apostle Paul tells Timothy, 2 Timothy 2 .22, flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love, and peace with those who call on the
29:33: Lord from a pure heart. Now, there where Paul says flee from youthful lusts, that's exactly the thing that's going on here with this hyper -masculinity group.
29:44: Oftentimes that phrase youthful lusts is interpreted as sexual immorality, but that's not the context there.
29:51: When Paul is giving that instruction to Timothy, it's talking about a young man's natural tendency to want to be combative, to want to fight.
30:00: It's that aggression that exists in some young men. And Titus 2 confronts the same thing.
30:07: Titus 2 .6, urge the younger men to be sensible. As Paul gives that instruction to Titus, it's the same kind of instruction, that these men would be temperate in their thinking, that they would calm down and that they would look to Christ and desire godliness in the meekness of our
30:25: Savior, not wanting to go after those passions of the flesh and want to be combative and fighting and pugnacious, which you see a lot even among these young Calvinist men.
30:36: And by the way, this is still, this is the continuation of what was called the Young Restless and Reform Movement.
30:42: That movement has not ended, just the same as Mark Driscoll has not ended. He's just moved on to his next thing.
30:49: He was called out and removed from Mars Hill Church in October of 2014.
30:55: So this was not even 10 years ago now. And here he has this church in Phoenix, which is just like 30 to 40 minutes from where I live, and he's finding a resurgence once again.
31:06: And even these Calvinist men are latching onto him online. And I see a lot of them saying, yeah, we understand
31:12: Mark Driscoll disqualified himself 10 years ago. Be careful. But hey, when he's right, he's right.
31:17: And they're still elevating the stuff that he teaches. So the fact that he would teach things that they agree with supersedes the fact that Mark Driscoll is completely unqualified, disqualified.
31:29: He can't ever be a preacher again. And no one should ever trust him because the guy lies through his teeth.
31:36: You don't know that he actually believes what it is that he is saying. He could just be putting on a con.
31:41: We don't know because that's Driscoll's thing. But this is still the continuation of that young, restless and reform movement.
31:48: And it really gives weight to an article that John MacArthur wrote in response to that movement.
31:54: When instead of young, restless and reformed, he said, grow up, calm down, but keep reforming.
32:02: And that's a good pattern for us to follow. The instructions that Paul gives to Timothy, 1
32:08: Timothy and 2 Timothy, good books to go to read those things and see how Paul instructs a young man there.
32:14: And may we model ourselves after those things. We desire to be like Christ, but we can even look to the apostles and others in the
32:21: Old and New Testament to see how we should be. For as Paul said in 1 Corinthians 11, 1, imitate me as I am of Christ.
32:30: So I guess the first instruction that I gave to you there, James, would be to work on those things within yourself.
32:38: Keep those teachers at arm's length, just like you had mentioned. Be careful.
32:43: It's okay to listen to them because you get familiar with some of the stuff that's out there. But don't let that be your influence.
32:50: And then consider the body of men that you are around. Because again, that instruction that Paul gave
32:56: Timothy in 2 Timothy 2 .22 was to pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, along with those who call on the
33:05: Lord from a pure heart. And as we do this with other men who desire to be Christ -like, then they can help to keep us in check.
33:12: Now, bad company corrupts good character, as said in 1 Corinthians 15. So you can surround yourself with a group of guys that leads to foolishness, or you can surround yourself to a group of men that are going to lead to godliness.
33:25: So be careful about the company that you keep. I just finished up Judges on the
33:30: Hear the Word of the Lord podcast. And when Jephthah was exiled by his brothers because he was born of a different woman.
33:42: And so his brothers kicked him out of the family. It says that Jephthah found a group of foolish men.
33:48: And they were the ones, therefore, that were the influence on Jephthah. And we see how that led to some foolish behavior a little bit later on down the line.
33:57: So you surround yourself with fools. That's exactly how you're going to turn out. But if you surround yourself with godly men who are meek, humble, desiring to grow in Christ -likeness, then that's going to have an effect on you as well.
34:11: And Godspeed to you, James. I thank you for your question and pray that the men that you surround yourself with will help to grow you in godliness.
34:21: You know, 1 Corinthians 12 is where we have given to us several gifts of the
34:28: Spirit. And among those gifts of the Spirit is the ability to discern between spirits.
34:33: And so somebody like James, for example, may have that ability to recognize some bad teaching going on here or something that would lead in a particular direction that would not be healthy for us as men or for our church.
34:45: And so that person could become a benefit to the other men or the church that he is a part of to keep them away from some of those teachers that might try to feed into those masculine desires and lead you in a direction that would be a lot more aggressive and a lot less godly.
35:03: And so think of those ways, too, how you might influence the men that are around you. So you're going after right teaching and sound doctrine and not being led astray by some of these guys that kind of hog the spotlight.
35:15: You know, when you're in a church that starts to get a lot more masculine, it leans more masculine, then there's a strong tendency for that church to end up going legalistic.
35:26: And I see this happen a lot. I could give you examples, but I'm not going to. Not now, anyway.
35:32: So those churches that that start to push into masculinity will even push their way into legalism.
35:39: A church, though, that pushes into femininity, like the women seem to be leading the way and drawing the church in that direction.
35:48: That's a church that tends to lean a lot more liberal. So these are the ditches that we could potentially fall into if we're not careful.
35:57: The hyper -masculine becomes more legalistic. The hyper -feminine becomes more liberal. And so this is one of those areas in which we see the benefits of complementarianism with men and women working together in their strengths and weaknesses become a functioning unit and therefore even a functioning church.
36:15: So coming back to those instructions that are given to us in Titus 2 about older men mentoring the younger men and older women mentoring the younger women.
36:24: And and those are good instructions for a church to follow that we may be a functioning church that is a representative of the body of Christ, pointing to Christ, who is the head.
36:37: A good functioning church is going to have a healthy balance of biblical femininity and biblical masculinity.
36:44: This next question, this comes from Sam. And he says, Dear Pastor Gabe, thank you for your wonderful ministry.
36:51: It has helped me immensely in my walk with Jesus. Thank you so much for that, Sam. I'm curious if you can do as I cannot find it on your site, a longer podcast about the rapture timing, or maybe you have a sermon on this or give your thoughts in an upcoming
37:08: Q &A. I know this is a secondary issue and a contentious subject for many Christians, but I am struggling to understand which is correct.
37:15: The pre or post trip rapture. I follow pastors who have strong views on both sides, one who is so sure of the post trip rapture.
37:25: He even offered 10 ,000 to anyone who could refute him, each giving scripture supporting both.
37:31: So it's very confusing as a believer. Should I be prepared to go through the tribulation or can
37:37: I be confident Jesus will take us out before it starts? Either way, I trust that he will take care of me.
37:43: The post tribbers say that those who fall away are most likely those who were pre trip and will fall away from the faith when they realize that there is no pre trip rapture, therefore losing their faith because they were lied to.
37:57: Then there's Revelation 310 and Matthew 24, which that's the Olivet Discourse in Matthew 24,
38:02: Jesus speaking to his disciples about what to expect at the end. Thank you in advance for any insights that you may have.
38:09: God bless you and Becky. Well, Sam, I'll tell you that when I was growing up, my dad had who was not a pre trip dispensational rapture believer and still is not.
38:20: So he did not believe that the rapture of the church happened at the beginning of a seven year period of tribulation. Then we go through that seven years and then
38:27: Christ returns again at the end of that seven years. He would have this saying whenever we would become members of a church, and usually that church would be a pre trip rapture view.
38:39: My dad didn't want to ruffle feathers. He didn't want to stir people up too bad. So he would just simply say, pray for pre prepare for post.
38:48: Hey, if God decides to take us out of the beginning of a seven year period of tribulation, amen, I'm on my way up.
38:53: Thank God if he doesn't and the rapture is actually on the other end of the seven year period of tribulation, then prepare for that.
39:01: So pray for pre prepare for post. I thought that was a good saying, and it was,
39:07: I think, agreeable for most people that held different end times views in the churches that we were a part of.
39:14: However, I will tell you this, and I'm just going to add in a little bit extra layer of confusion to where you already are concerning these things.
39:21: I don't even believe there is a seven year period of tribulation. We are in tribulation now.
39:28: There are Christians in nations on earth that are undergoing tribulation. Unlike anything that we experienced in the
39:34: United States of America, in Afghanistan, China, North Korea, Christians that are locked up, families that are torn apart.
39:42: Pastors are kidnapped. Churches are bombed or burned down. Saints being tortured and killed.
39:49: If someone from Religious Freedom USA says to them, hey, don't worry, Jesus is going to rapture us out before it gets really bad.
39:56: That does not minister to them. Now, someone might push back on that, on me saying that and say, well, what about Daniel's 70 weeks?
40:05: Because this is where we even get the idea of a seven year period of tribulation at all. It's from a certain interpretation of Daniel's 70 weeks in Daniel chapter nine.
40:14: The meaning of the 70 weeks is theological, not calendrical.
40:20: The 70 weeks are an approximate period that begins with the decree to rebuild
40:26: Jerusalem, Daniel 9, 25, and ends with the Roman general Titus marching on Jerusalem and destroying the temple in 70
40:33: AD. An inconsistent interpretation of Daniel's 70 weeks would be to count 69 weeks, which are exactly 483 years, then break for an unspecified 2000 year plus gap and then have the 70th week be exactly seven years of tribulation somewhere in the far distant future.
40:58: That is an inconsistent reading of Daniel's 70 weeks. And there's nothing in the text that lends to that interpretation at all,
41:05: I believe. So that's why I don't even agree that there is a seven year period of tribulation.
41:12: I believe that the most concise view of the way that the end is going to be is presented to us in 1
41:19: Thessalonians 4, 13 through 5, 11. And when you read what
41:24: Paul says to expect there at the end, you don't get any sense that there is some seven year period of tribulation that falls into that.
41:33: Let me go ahead and read that since I have it open here in front of me, of course. 1 Thessalonians 4, beginning in verse 13.
41:40: I'm just going to read straight through it. And you hear how Paul presents what the return of Christ will be like.
41:46: But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as the rest who have no hope.
41:55: For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus.
42:04: For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the
42:11: Lord will not precede those who have fallen asleep. For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.
42:27: Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the
42:33: Lord in the air. And so we shall always be with the Lord. Therefore, comfort one another with these words.
42:41: Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need of anything to be written to you.
42:47: For you yourselves know full well that the day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night.
42:54: While they are saying peace and safety, then destruction will come upon them suddenly like labor pains upon a woman who is pregnant, and they will never escape.
43:04: But you, brothers, are not in darkness that the day would overtake you like a thief.
43:11: For you are all sons of light and sons of day. We are not of night nor of darkness.
43:18: So then let us not sleep as others do, but let us be awake and sober.
43:24: For those who sleep, sleep at night, and those who get drunk, get drunk at night. But since we are of the day, let us be sober, having put on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet, the hope of salvation.
43:39: For God has not appointed us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our
43:45: Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us. So that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with him.
43:53: Therefore, comfort one another and build one another up, just as you also are doing.
44:02: Now there you are with a presentation on what the day of Christ's return will be like.
44:08: Did you get any sense in there that there's going to be some seven -year period of tribulation or that Jesus returns twice?
44:15: The rapture happens at the beginning of seven years, then we go through seven years, and then Jesus returns again. There's nothing like that presented in this teaching on that day.
44:24: Now, of course, this isn't the only place in Scripture where the day of Christ is taught.
44:29: But this being, I think, that most concise and laid -out understanding of what the day of the
44:34: Lord will be like and what we are expecting. The dead in Christ will rise first, and we who are left will be caught up together with the
44:41: Lord. And then he brings judgment upon those who did not believe.
44:46: And all of this seems to be happening as the same event. The dead in Christ rising, we being caught up together with the
44:55: Lord, Christ bringing judgment upon those who were ungodly. And we have no reason to fear that day or be caught by surprise.
45:03: We will be ready because we continue in the way of Christ and will be found faithful servants of the
45:10: Lord on that day when he returns. So let us be faithfully serving servants so that when
45:18: Christ comes, we are rejoicing on that day. Finally, our Savior has returned, and we are caught up together with him in the air.
45:26: And so we will always be together with the Lord. Now, one of the other things that's said there in this passage, verse 18 of chapter 4 and verse 11 of chapter 5, comfort one another with these words.
45:39: These should not be words to divide over. And my friends consist of all the different end times views.
45:49: And there is not a reason for me to break fellowship with any one of them. We'll pick on each other. You know, my dispensational friends are going to say, hey, when
45:57: Jesus comes, I'm going up in the rapture. I don't know what you're going to stay down here doing. And I'll say, hey, when Jesus returns,
46:03: I'm going up with him, and you can rub it in my face if I'm wrong. I don't think I am.
46:08: But should that happen on that day, there's no reason for us to break fellowship over this.
46:14: We should instead encourage one another with these words. And it has always broken my heart whenever I have seen churches divide over differing end times views.
46:23: I don't think that a particular end times view should be stated in your membership requirements.
46:30: You shouldn't say that in order to be a member of this church, you must be Amill or you must be Postmill or you must be a pre -trib, pre -rapture view.
46:38: And I see that a lot. I will see churches say, this has to be your end times view. If you want to become a member of our church, remember back to what we had read earlier with regards to those three main requirements that a church should meet in order to be a functioning body of Christ.
46:55: Your specific end times view is not one of them. And so I don't think that a church should state that.
47:01: I understand that there are churches that'll say, well, we'll welcome any end times view, but if you want to be a pastor or in leadership, then you have to have this specific end times view.
47:11: Okay, that's up to each church to decide, but I don't think it should be required membership that everybody has to have this end times view in order to be a member of our church.
47:19: We should not see this as a cause for division, but we should encourage one another. We're talking about future events here.
47:26: The future is not clear. And the way that prophecy is given to us in scripture concerning those future events is not given to us the same way as we look at historical events.
47:37: We can understand historical events better because they've already happened, but future events have not yet taken place.
47:43: And when that happens, we'll glorify God on that day and all of it's going to make sense to write down to the smallest detail.
47:50: And we'll see in scripture, this is what God said, ah, yeah, okay. Now that makes sense to me.
47:56: In the meantime, let's not break fellowship over it, but encourage one another logging all the more together for that day when we will be drawn to Christ in his eternal kingdom.
48:10: Amen to you, brother Sam. Thank you so much for your question. This next one comes from Eric, and this is less a question and more just a note of encouragement.
48:21: And the subject of his email is your YouTube interview with Justin Peters. And I believe based on the subject matter of the email here, that he's talking about the interview that we did with regards to The Chosen, which
48:35: I did, I guess that was in September when that aired. So just, yeah, like nine months ago, he mentions eight or nine months here.
48:41: I've done a couple of interviews with Justin over the last year. I know the last one that we did was concerning Mark Driscoll.
48:49: So that's specifically the interview that Eric is talking about here. So he says, good day. I'm a pastor of a small congregation in the
48:56: Philippines. God bless you, Eric, and the ministry that you were doing there. On the topic above,
49:01: I am eight months late as I have only recently watched your interaction with Justin Peters. I really enjoyed the interview and your exchange is helping me and my discussion with members under my care.
49:12: Like you, I still have a DVD copy of Jesus of Nazareth hidden somewhere.
49:18: So in that interview with Justin, as we were talking about The Chosen and why Christians shouldn't watch it, I mentioned that I still had a
49:25: DVD copy of Jesus of Nazareth. I can't remember if I bought it or if it was gifted to me and I had it more for nostalgia reasons.
49:33: But yeah, so I have that DVD somewhere in my possession. And I've not watched it and I don't know how many years, but just to say that I have something like that in my collection.
49:45: And Eric is saying he's got that same DVD. Admittedly, it has some sentimental values so I'm hesitant to throw it away.
49:51: He says I'm the same way. It just sits in one of my shelves and I have no urgent intention of watching it again.
49:58: In one of my discussions with church members, I mentioned another video portrayal of Christ.
50:04: Are you familiar with the Family Rosary Crusade from Priest Peyton? In their video series, which was usually played in the
50:12: Philippines around Holy Week, there Jesus always had his back turned to the camera when it was necessary to portray
50:18: Christ facing the camera. The setup was done so that the actor was some distance away and the face could not be seen.
50:25: It was something different, even leading my dad, who was all over the place religion wise, to comment that they actually did the right thing.
50:33: Again, I appreciate your interview with Justin Peters. Blessing to you and your ministry. So yeah, this is talking about basically like what would constitute a second commandment violation.
50:43: And should we have portrayals of Jesus Christ in movies or television at all?
50:49: Now, I don't inherently believe that any images of Christ are automatically second commandment violations.
50:55: Of course, the second commandment says, you shall not make a graven image. You shall not bow down and worship it or serve it.
51:02: I am the Lord your God. And so there are many who will hold that any image of Jesus at all, even a portrayal of Jesus in a play or in a
51:12: TV show or in a movie would be a violation of the second commandment. I'm not quite that strict on it, but I would say that it's unwise.
51:21: And I don't think that anybody should do it because it's just simply not possible for us as fallible human beings to accurately portray the sinless son of God.
51:32: What would that have even looked like in all of his nuance? There's no way for us to be able to capture that.
51:38: So I am more content as a pastor to just preach the words of Christ, reading the words and even giving it inflection is not at all the same as portraying
51:47: Christ and giving people an image that they would therefore have in their head whenever they would hear the words of Jesus read or hear his name said.
51:57: And that's the person's face that they have pop into their minds. I would never want to be that. So like if somebody were to ask me, hey,
52:03: Gabe, we'd love for you to star in this play and portray Jesus. I would say no. First of all,
52:09: I'm over 40 years old. I'm older than the part anyway. But other than that, that aside, because that's just a joke,
52:16: I wouldn't want people to see my face whenever they think of Jesus and are praying to Jesus and they see my face pop into their mind.
52:23: I would never want that. So that was some of the things that Justin and I were talking about with regard to that.
52:29: Maybe you don't stand on the side of any picture of Jesus being a second commandment violation, but you have to be able to say at the very least that it's unwise.
52:40: It's not a good idea for us to do it. And so some of those portrayals that I've appreciated have been like in the movie
52:47: Ben -Hur where Jesus' face is never seen. He's always seen it like a great distance or you're seeing him from behind, but you never actually see his face.
52:55: You don't even have any idea who the actor is that plays him. I'm sure people know that now, but at least watching the movie, you would not know who is depicting
53:03: Jesus in that film because he's always seen from behind or at a distance or something like that. I think that's a more honest way of being able to do it.
53:12: I'm not opposed to cinematic portrayals of Bible stories. I think that can be done very, very well.
53:18: And there are some Bible stories I wish I could see a good cinematic portrayal of. Somebody do the whole book of judges.
53:25: Just do judges from beginning to end. I would love to see that and even have a narrator in there so that you understand these people and the way that they're behaving in this book are acting according to their own desires.
53:37: There was no king in Israel in those days. Everybody did what was right in their own eyes.
53:44: And I think that could be a great film. Plenty of drama in there. I'm not opposed to putting
53:50: Bible stories in cinema, but it's not a good idea to do that with the story of Christ. And the bigger issue with The Chosen is that it's extra biblical and therefore anti -biblical.
54:02: And so it is leading people into a wrong understanding of what the gospels say, about Jesus and his disciples.
54:09: So no one should have anything to do with it. Avoid The Chosen. I happen to catch that The Chosen just managed to get out of their contract with Angel Studios.
54:19: So now they're exclusively with Lionsgate and the hold up on season four is probably going to be lifted pretty soon.
54:26: So the only way that you've been able to see The Chosen season four is if you went to go see it in theaters when Lionsgate did their theatrical run.
54:32: It has not been available on the app or on any of the streaming sites. But now that they've gotten out of their contract with Angel Studios, I believe that season four is going to be available pretty soon.
54:44: But things are just getting worse and worse as the show progresses, getting more and more counter biblical with with the way that they portray
54:53: Jesus and his disciples, no matter how biblically faithful they want to say that they are. I was able to identify immediately from the first season that that this was this was going off the rails.
55:03: And it's way off the rails now at this point. Hey, let me conclude with this poll. I'm going to save the rest of these questions.
55:09: We'll get to some of these next week and and see if I get any more before then as well. I did a poll on the
55:15: Whatcom site on X on Twitter X. And here was the question.
55:21: If you believe that pictures of Jesus are Second Commandment violations to CV, I have a poll question for you.
55:27: If someone made a painting of Jesus hanging on the cross, but Jesus and the cross were silhouetted, no face, no features.
55:37: Would you consider this a Second Commandment violation? So I'm asking this question just of those who would believe that any portrayal of Jesus would be a
55:46: Second Commandment violation. Can you have pictures of Jesus where Jesus is just silhouetted and you don't see any face or features?
55:56: This was pretty much across the board. I gave three options. Yes, it's a Second Commandment violation. No, that's acceptable.
56:03: Or I'll think about it. And among those three answers, it's pretty much an even split. So 28 .8
56:09: % said yes, it's a Second Commandment violation. 36 .3 % said no, that's acceptable.
56:16: And 35 % said or 34 .9 % said I'll think about it. That's over 200 votes that I got on that particular poll.
56:23: And that's how things are split at the present. So interesting to know your views on that. If you have any other questions that you would like to submit to the broadcast, our email address is whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.
56:36: And don't forget once again that you can go to the website www .tt .com and click on the voicemail option in the menu.
56:47: And then you can record your voicemail there, either through your phone or through your laptop. Appreciate James for submitting a voicemail this week and would love to hear from you.
56:56: It's great to interact with actual voices and hear your questions more so than just read them.
57:01: But I'm content with getting email questions as well. Now, the Southern Baptist Convention annual meeting is next week in Indianapolis.
57:09: And the big question Becky and I have talked about it on previous episodes is with regards to the law amendment.
57:15: This new amendment, which would change the Constitution to the Southern Baptist Convention would mean that a church that has a woman pastor would be an unfriendly cooperation and should therefore be removed from the
57:27: Southern Baptist Convention. So this is the big amendment that's going to be voted on at the convention next week.
57:32: And we will know this time next week what the outcome of that will be. So I'm going to mention something about it on the podcast.
57:39: I'm working on an article. I'm hoping to be able to publish it Monday or Tuesday just ahead of the convention on my thoughts before the law amendment comes to the floor for a vote.
57:50: Now, as I've said, I'm not going to be there. And with the passing of my wife's grandmother, then we would have had to have canceled our trip anyway.
57:59: So in the providence of God, we had planned not to go to Indianapolis. And now with all of this happening, it's clear that we would not have been there anyway.
58:08: I am at home alone with four children. So I could use your prayers also. I feel like I'm doing a single dad thing right now.
58:16: And I'm going to be doing this for two more weeks yet. So prayers for me also. I'm still trying to make it up to the
58:23: Building Tomorrow's church conference, which is in Phoenix right now.
58:28: It's going on right now. I'm going to make it to the morning sessions on Friday. And I'm taking four kids along with me anyway.
58:34: So as said, I'm not going to be at the Southern Baptist Convention annual meeting next week. If I was, here's who
58:40: I would be voting for. I would vote Jared Moore for president. Michael Clary for first vice president, who's a cousin of Michael W.
58:49: Smith, by the way. I had an interaction with Michael Clary and and he shared that with me. That's awesome.
58:55: I can't imagine what that would be like growing up with Michael W. Smith, but that's not why I would vote for him.
59:01: He's a solid guy. He would be my pick for first vice president. And then Chris Bolt for president of the
59:08: Pastors Conference. Man, I love Chris. And I think that guy would do a great job as the president of the
59:13: Pastors Conference. I hope he does well in the voting. So that's who I would vote for next week. Jared Moore for president,
59:19: Michael Clary for first VP and Chris Bolt for president of the Pastors Conference. And I'm praying for you guys and for the annual meeting next week.
59:28: Folks, this is the largest Protestant denomination in North America. And the things that will be decided there will have an impact on evangelicalism all across the country and even around the world.
59:40: So these things do matter, no matter your opinions about the Southern Baptist Convention. I was greatly concerned about things that were going on in the
59:47: United Methodist Church, even though I'm not Methodist. So be in prayer for these things that God would give wisdom to these leaders.
59:53: And maybe we would see a turn in a better direction in the Southern Baptist Convention, beginning with the annual meeting in Indianapolis next week.
01:00:03: Let's finish here with prayer and then God bless. And I hope to hear from you again for next week's
01:00:11: Q &A as well. Heavenly Father, we thank you for our time together here. And I pray for the Southern Baptist Convention as that's coming up next week, that you would give wisdom to those men who are running for these different offices, give wisdom to the messengers that are going to be there.
01:00:26: May the law amendment pass and biblical fidelity be upheld in the
01:00:32: Southern Baptist Convention. We've seen the law amendment pass in New Orleans. It has to pass twice. This is the second time that vote is coming to the floor here in Indianapolis.
01:00:41: And so we pray that it would be upheld what the Bible says about a pastor, that God has given it to a man to fill this role.
01:00:49: And this is an important biblical issue that the Southern Baptist Convention is deciding on next week.
01:00:56: Lord, I pray for my own wife and for the family that is grieving right now at the loss of Ruth.
01:01:04: And we thank you for her life and the children that she had and the grandchildren.
01:01:09: And we pray that the gospel would be proclaimed at her funeral tomorrow. And many others may come to hear the good news of Jesus Christ who died on the cross for our sins and rose again from the dead so that all who believe in him will not perish but have everlasting life.
01:01:25: Being together with the Lord forever in glory, life from the grave. This is only given to those who have faith in Jesus.
01:01:35: And so may that gospel continue to be proclaimed in the world. And may we continue to share it with boldness for it is only in Christ that we have the forgiveness of sins and life forevermore.
01:01:47: It's in Jesus name we pray. Amen. This is when we understand the text with Pastor Gabe Hughes.
01:01:53: There are lots of great Bible teaching programs on the web and we thank you for selecting ours. But this is no replacement for regular fellowship with a church family.
01:02:02: Find a good gospel teaching Christ -centered church to worship with this weekend and join us again Monday for more