What Ministry Leaders Don't Get - w/ Marcus Pittman and Jason Farley from LOOR.tv

All right, everybody. Happy Friday. God bless you. I hope you had a productive week. I just wanted to introduce this video. I think this is an important topic. You know, obviously with all the dust up with G3 and Christian nationalism, one of the things that's come out of that is a lot of accusations of childishness, a lot of accusations of immaturity, you know, memeing is wrong, you know, things like that.

Comedy, Laughter, and Truth-Telling in the Culture War

And I wanted to put this conversation out because comedy and laughter is a tremendously important tool. And the people who laugh the most are typically going to win in this culture war. Now, obviously, we understand that, you know, ultimately and cosmically, it's the gospel that changes hearts, you know, changes a heart from a heart of stone into a heart of flesh.

And hearing that gospel and the power of the Holy Spirit, that's what ultimately makes lasting change. Without the gospel, without regeneration, any change that happens is not going to last. However, preaching the gospel is not the only thing a Christian needs to be engaged in.

And a lot of you do need to hear that. Because if you talk to some guys, they'll never really say this outright, but they certainly act like preaching and maybe exegesis are like the only legitimate things that a Christian can do.

And that's not true. Christians, not only should we tell jokes, not only should we meme, not only should we be comedians, but we should be the best ones. And we should be the best ones because we have the truth.

Because here's the reality, those who don't have the truth, they can try to joke and they do. But they're not funny, they're not good. And often they don't even try. People that don't have the truth, they really have a problem taking things too seriously.

It's hard to laugh at yourself when you're lying constantly. It's hard to laugh at yourself when you know the truth is not on your side. This is one, you know, Big Eva with the Gospel Coalition and all that, of course they still exist and they're still big, you know, they're bigger than we would want.

But they've already been dealt their death blow. They're a byword in a lot of circles. And the people that take them seriously, it's shrinking every day. And so they still exist, sadly. But it's not going to be long before they're looked at as mainline Protestant.

The way we look at mainline Protestant, people are going to look at Big Eva. And humor and memes and jokes was one of the primary tools that we used to expose the fact that they don't have the truth. It's tremendously powerful.

James White in a recent Dividing Line, or rather The Driving Line, kind of asked, you know, rhetorically, are memes going to, you know, help in the culture war? Are they going to stand against the tyranny that we face?

And I was riding my bike at the time. And as I heard that, I shouted out. I was, you know, I'm out of breath because I'm riding pretty strong. And I shouted out, yes, that's exactly what's going to do it.

And of course, you know, I don't mean that's ultimately what does it. But jokes are an extremely powerful method for truth-telling. And we should harness that. And we are harnessing that. And so this isn't really a plea, although it is a little bit of that.

This isn't really, like, supposed to be just an explanation, although I'm going to explain a little bit. This is an exhortation for Christians to be joke-tellers that tell the truth, that make people laugh because these are tools in your arsenal that will carry us to victory.

It is not an exaggeration to say that those that laugh the most control the future. Now, I hope you enjoy this. And of course, if you have any questions, let me know. Listen, if you don't believe me that I don't think humor is important, I mean, just consider the fact that I root for the Mets.

All right. Well, I am joined today by the great Marcus Pittman. Marcus is the founder and CEO of Lore. And also, I got to say, when I told people that I was going to have Jason on, too, who's the chief content officer at Lore, I don't know, I told them right before we jumped on live, there's some people that are not too fond of you, Jason.

Yep.

I got myself the haters. I didn't pursue why. I don't know why. It doesn't matter.

I just thought that you might like to know. It's racism. That's why. Probably racism, yes. Anyway, so I was talking on Signal with Marcus the other day, and he had the idea to do this show. Marcus, why don't you just kind of tell me why you wanted to do this show?

Because it has to do with this whole controversy with Christian nationalists and G3. Tell me what you saw.

G3, Christian Nationalism, and the Theology Gap

Well, I think you see basically what's happening with G3 is this inability for those in the ivory towers to be able to speak to those in the regular laymen in the pews. And there's a theology breakdown that's happening where G3 is really good at stuff for the church.

Right? That's their ministry. They're really passionate about the church and the supremacy of the church and stuff like that. But they're not really good when it comes to how to use theology to build a plumbing business or landscaping or these sort of things.

So we're seeing this breakdown with G3 and that sort of what's happening. But then I started to see a lot of comments about how memes are immature and all these other sort of things, which is, first off, memes are like the best lessons in logic that people are getting right now.

It's better than anything they're being taught in government schools and even seminaries, really. The logic in a meme is a really good education. But ultimately, I was just like, man, Christians and conservatives in general really don't understand the power of comedy as a weapon.

And that's been the key thing to see is everything is always so serious. And then if it's not serious, it's automatically deemed as immature. Even though comedy has been used probably to change our nation more than anything.

As we look at Lorne Michaels in Saturday Night Live and the history of culture that has gone through him has been quite incredible. And so as we're go ahead.

Let me just catch people up because basically the reason why you wanted to do this show is because you saw people very hot under the collar about my clown shoes meme. That's basically what this boils down to.

I couldn't believe that because I had put some spicier stuff than that. There was some other stuff that I thought was even borderline, you know what I mean? But like, that I put out. I was like, man, if they're going to get me, they're going to get me on one of these.

And then the clown shoes meme was the one that did it. And I just couldn't believe it. And I think that was what led to this. It's like, man, we're missing something here. We need to talk about this.

I didn't even see the clown shoes meme. What was that one? I don't really go on Twitter much.

It's hard to explain a meme out of context, but I'll try. No matter what, you're going to sound so dumb. But anyway.

It's basically people at G3 putting on their clown shoes for today.

From my perspective, every day that passed, we got these really bad arguments against a Christian nation. Why we shouldn't have a Christian nation. And it was like the worst stuff. It was like, what do you think, you're saved by the government?

Stuff like that, right? So then, I didn't even make the meme. I wish I did. But it's just G3 getting ready to go on Twitter for the morning. And it's just a clown putting on his shoes. Again, in the grand scheme of the memes that I've been putting out, and the stuff I've been saying, that's so tame.

Yeah. But comedy is so powerful that you probably feel it harder. When people laughing, you feel harder than people scowling or anything.

That's a good point. And actually, I want to get back to what you were saying, Marcus. I'm so sorry for interrupting your thought. No, no, it's fine. Well, that's kind of something that I was saying. Because during that same time when that meme kind of made people upset, the same people that got upset about it were in the comments saying how silly so-and-so's statement was or things like that.

And that's the same message that's being sent, right? Your argument is silly. That's not nice, right? But it's the same message. The thing was, though, that doesn't make anyone laugh. But the clown shoes meme, it sends the same message, but it does make people laugh.

It does. I think there's a couple of reasons for that. One is we are completely, as a culture, we are numb to guilt. But we are not numb to shame. And so people laughing at us is something we still feel because of the shame of it all.

And so it's an important thing that we've got to figure out how to use properly.

Memes, Shame, and Fighting Bad Theology

I think that's the key, how to use it properly. Marcus, is it appropriate to meme on someone that you like? Someone on your team, like a Christian, another Christian. Nobody's calling into question their salvation.

No one's calling into question their commitment to the Lord. And they've done great things in the past. A lot of the guys that I was memeing on, these guys have been in ministry longer than I've been, maybe not alive, but as long as I've been an adult.

Is that appropriate to meme on people like that? Yeah, I think so. I think that's how men fight each other. In a loving, kind way.

We tease each other. We make fun of each other. We laugh and have a good time. But then also, at the end of the day, we can just go and hang out and drink a beer or whatever. That's how men were made.

I think one of the dangers is when you get too emotional over a meme being directed towards you. And that, to me, is when you come across as effeminate. Because women don't have the same ability to be able to fight and laugh at each other and make fun of each other as men do.

That's a key distinction between men. And it's how God made us. So, when you hold a grudge, when you see a meme against you and you hold a grudge, you're acting more effeminate at that point. But also, we need to encourage the use of comedy and memes in fighting.

Especially when we're talking about fighting bad theologies and this sort of stuff. Because it doesn't matter. The thing that's so powerful about memes or comedy or jokes is that a well-done joke can dismantle a 100-page thesis.

In five seconds flat. In five seconds flat. And when you spend a lot of money on a college education, and you have credentials, and you're trying to be sophisticated and have the five-star dinners at Mar-a-Lago and those sort of things, and you're just undercut by one video or one meme every year, it's dangerous to your reputation.

So, they are powerful tools. They're absolutely not immature. And the embarrassing thing is those who have a high education, PhD, those sort of things, and who are undercut, their entire life is undercut by one meme.

That's where the real anger, I think, is coming from. It's not whether or not the joke was good or whether or not the argument is credible. It's the personal attack on everything you've built up or your theology that you're basing your life around.

Jason, before we got on live, you guys had mentioned a few projects that you have, and they're going to be launching at some point. I don't know when. And they're a comedy base. They're comedy shows. They're supposed to be funny and all of that.

I'm just going to be straight up with you, because this is a question people ask me all the time. Do you really think you're going to be making headway in this culture war with comedies?

Comedy Requires a Moral Center

I think you're only going to be making headway in this culture war with comedies. When the world has lost its moral center, comedy is one of the only ways to shine a light back to the moral center. Because comedy requires a moral center.

You can't have comedy without morality. And that's why all of the attempts to get rid of morality have always ended up ruining comedy. You don't get funnier and funnier and funnier the further progressive the left gets.

We went to a gay-owned comedy club. We were just looking for a comedy club and picked one out of a hat. We didn't know it was gay-owned. Wait, you guys went to a gay bar? Is that what you're trying to tell us?

Yeah, basically. So we walked in and it said up above the bar it was a safe space. And I said, Sanctuary! Sanctuary! And the bartender looked at me and he was like, It's a gay-owned comedy club. That's not funny.

And I was like, but it kind of was though, right? It kind of was funny. And he said, no.

And I was like, okay. Point it to the rainbow flag behind you. No, don't.

And it was like, you know, there is, We don't joke about that. And I was like, it's a comedy club. We joke about everything, right? It's the blasphemy laws. Because there's things that I wouldn't joke about and think they're funny because of my religion, right?

Because of what I believe about God. I found their blasphemy laws really quickly through humor. And I think that's what humor does. It assumes a center. It assumes a moral center. And if you can't do that, you can't be funny.

And then that was the least funny comedy club. Marcus and I go to comedy clubs all over and that was the least funny. Because they kept holding back and pulling back and say, oh, I can't tell that joke here.

Because this is a safe space. And that multiple times they pulled back on jokes because they were like, well, we have to keep this a safe space. But the whole point of good comedy is to get to the truth.

Is to put on display the lies that we tell ourselves that our culture tells. And if that's not allowed, then it's a quick way to ruin the comedy.

Underground Comedy, Censorship, and the Best Jokes

Yeah. And just as a comparison, we went to the Comedy Cellar in New York City, which is one of the most popular comedy venues. That whole street is just lined with comedy clubs. And when you get there, they take your phone, they put it in a plastic bag and seal it.

And the bodyguard writes his name on it. And then the waitress comes and won't serve you or seat you until she sees that your bag is still sealed with the bodyguard's name on it. And so that freed up all the comedians to really be able to tell whatever joke they wanted.

And the biggest lesson of the night came from anti-gay, anti-trans jokes. Just everything you would think you would be cancelled for on the government-sponsored media. And they were just killing it in New York City, right?

And so then you go to Los Angeles. And by the way, these underground comedy clubs it's the point where the culture is starting to overflow. So when you see comedy clubs and the funny thing and the hot thing to do is the anti-trans, anti-gay jokes that shows you where you are without the media telling you.

Which direction the toes are pointing.

Yeah, that's right. I want to make sure people get what you're saying. You went to basically a comedy speakeasy because actual funny jokes are not allowed. And so you had to actually put your phone in a bag so that you wouldn't record it so they could actually tell their jokes.

Right.

So yeah, part of it is to protect the comedians. And then also sometimes you have people like big-name people like Dave Chappelle or Chris Rock will actually come in and make a surprise appearance. So they don't want the filming of that as well.

But for the most part, it freed up the artists to be able to really be able to tell the jokes that they wanted to do. It was incredible to see. And then we were invited to a comedy show in LA called American Live.

And this is right in Hollywood, Burbank area of Hollywood. It was sold out, 300 people. And you had some of the funniest jokes I've ever seen in my life. And it was all not church comics. I want to be very clear.

I think there's a very strong difference between conservative and Christian comedy and church comedy. I think church comedy is just playing it just to the church crowd. But this is actual comedy as a weapon, conservative Christian comedy.

And we had one of the best jokes with a guy, what was the guy's name? Like what? Jason Lefkowitz. Yeah, Jason Lefkowitz. He's a Jewish guy. He just became Christian. And the joke was essentially, look, I just became a Christian.

I don't know much about the Bible. But I know that the Bible only lets you cut off a little bit of your penis. Right? That's a great joke. That's a great joke. It's a great... It is. But see, that's the kind of comedy even when you say it, people are like, am I allowed to laugh at that?

Because we've been so just demoralized by that. But that's exactly the kind of fighting that we need to happen. And that's why I'm excited. So when I see these evangelical organizations and the Gospel Coalition was the worst of it.

Oh yeah. Just completely deriding comedy and memes and any sort of argument that just crushes them.

That isn't winsome, right? Because the reality is when you take yourself really, really seriously, you're giving up the future. Because the future is always laughed into existence. That is... That's the direction that the culture goes.

And right now the church just has... The evangelical church has decided that it needs respectability and needs to be taken really, really seriously. And that's... That's what a corpse does when it's waiting to be buried.

You know, this is good stuff. Because there's a couple things going on here. So kind of the infighting, and that's fighting between siblings. A lot of this is sort of in my estimation, it's sort of like testing each other.

And it's also practice. Because I think that if you take yourself so seriously that you can't take a meme from a brother, how in the world how in the world are you going to move forward against the actual enemy?

I cannot for the life of me understand. And listen, memes aren't for everybody. I think this is another thing too. People say, well, we can just joke and make comedies and have memes, and we don't need to actually study.

We don't need conferences. We don't need preaching. That's not it. Nobody's saying we've got to discard writing books or discard conference speaking. Maybe I'm saying that.

Is this where I should plug the conference I'm speaking at coming up?

But in any case, nobody's saying that. Not only is this a valid tool, but it is a crucial tool. I think you guys are 100 right. On the most recent dividing line, James White was actually talking about is memeing going to stand up against the culture war, like the culture warriors?

Is this going to turn the tide against the evil that we face? When I was listening to that, I was exercising, and I just shouted out yes, that's exactly what's going to do it. And it's already working, by the way.

A lot of the younger people, they get these, they understand this stuff, and they're like, oh yeah, it's ridiculous to be a tranny. That's shameful. And they get that from memes. They don't get that from their teachers.

Memes, the Reformation, and the Priesthood of All Believers

Recently, I was involved in a slight kerfuffle online, and what I learned was...

Did you just say kerfluffle? Hold on, stop, stop, stop. Did you say kerfluffle? Yeah. It was slight. Okay, so I feel a lot better now. I used to think it was kerfluffle, too. It's kerfuffle. Not fluff.

It's fuffle. I'm with Wittgenstein in that meaning is use, so I'm sticking with kerfluffle.

Is it kerfuffle? Kerfluffle? It should be kerfluffle. That's a funnier word. Way funnier. Like, go get me a peanut butter and kerfluffle. Exactly. Anyway, sorry to distract. I just think that's so funny because I just mentioned that on a show making fun of myself for using the word kerfluffle.

But what I learned was that.

The power of the young 1689 Baptists is real, because they can meme. They memed me into the ground. It was hilarious. I've got a whole folder on my phone of memes people made. It was good. It made me so happy.

I was like, I have made the world a better place because look at these amazing memes that have come into the world through this.

If you never had said that, we would never have these memes. I remember when I was going down.

And Jason was just telling me about how excited he was about these memes that were against him. They were against him, but it was just.

Like, that's how men fight. It is, and it gives me hope for the future because they were young dudes who were on it. They were on it. I was like, we're going to be fine.

We're going to be fine. Well, look, let's talk about one of my best friends. I was in his wedding, Rhett Koppel. The guy, by all accounts, is a nobody. He's just a factory worker. He goes to church. He's faithful with his family and his kids, but he is getting into serious discussions with James Lindsay.

He started this whole, basically, meme war that has moved them to respond to a nobody. That's right. That's a big deal. We say, well, are these things going to actually influence culture? Well, they already are.

They already are. James Lindsay wouldn't have responded to him if he was just speaking in theological treaties and stuff to him, but James Lindsay has to respond to every single thing that Rhett says now.

He can't help himself because the memes are too good. Who is winning that one? Right?

These are things that he does in his spare time.

I just see him at the factory machine and he's like, okay, hold on, hold on a second.

I got an idea. It goes like this, right? He's loading something and then he goes, and then he goes over and he makes the meme. You know that it starts with that giggle. Yeah. It's incredible.

Just to see that, and this is the thing we've forgotten, I think. The Reformation happened when theology got into the poor lower class. It didn't happen at Mike O 'Fallon's $10 ,000 per table banquets, right?

I thought that's exactly how it happened. Martin Luther started hosting private.

Banquets at the Pope's Palace. To learn all about how the magisterium is screwing them over.

That's exactly not what happened, right.

Perhaps join me upon this cruise.

Right. If you read Bran Luther, it talks about this very specifically in terms of how Martin Luther used art and language and stuff to get into the hands and create a brand for himself in the way that the common man can understand it.

That's really when the Reformation happened, this priesthood of all believers. It's not only the people who want to go to seminary or have the biggest library. That's not how you change the nation. You change the nation by the priesthood of all believers and recognizes that every single individual is equally in the same war and can fight as hard as the next person.

And sometimes that's with comedy and jokes as Martin Luther was obviously really skilled with.

But make sure my wife doesn't hear you say that buying more books doesn't help change the culture because. Yeah, no, no, no. We can't have.

That getting around. 100%. And again, it's like it's amazing to me because I just think about things like how many important truths have been communicated to regular people through the change my mind meme or that one with the two buttons.

Not everybody is going to pick up the latest 400 page book on whatever topic you want. Some people will and honestly some people have to in order to have content for those kinds of memes. The people that are true meme Lords have read a lot.

You know what I mean? They have to because it's very difficult to communicate a truth that's very complex in a picture. So somebody has to produce and read those books but not everybody's going to and not everybody needs to.

That's a great point. Let me.

Conan O 'Brien was head of the Harvard Comedy Club. All the writers for the Simpsons like some of them had PhDs. They went to elite Ivy League schools. Some of the best comedians that we know have incredible educations.

And this is what they did. I'm trying to think specifically and I know Colbert a lot of the Simpsons writers. A lot of the Futurama writers too were also high-level PhDs and academics. A lot of comedians are actually geniuses in my opinion.

No, they absolutely are. Whether they have the actual academic credentials or not. They're still geniuses but I was speaking specifically on like there is a whole class of comedians that was part of the Simpsons and Saturday Night Live and those sort of things that actually do have the credentials.

So what they were doing wasn't dumb at all and it wasn't because they couldn't get a job anywhere.

Else. Yeah, all the Monty Python guys came from Cambridge and Oxford. Yep, there you go. I mean one of my favorite comedians, he has a side hustle where he writes Chaucer commentary on Middle English poetry.

But then he's also just.

An incredible comedian, right? Yeah, so. But because it really does because it's not a.

It's a hard art form and it takes education, commitment, the whole business. And bravery. Yeah, a lot of courage and I don't think most people realize what it takes to actually do comedy. There's a really great book called Father Joe and it's about the guy that wrote he was an early Monty Python writer, he was on the first season of the SNL, he was he wrote the, oh man the, our amps go up to 11.

What was that movie? Spinal Tap. He wrote Spinal Tap and he was and he was raised Irish Roman Catholic and then left the faith but the priest from his parish growing up pursued his spiritual health his entire life.

Wrote him letter after letter after letter. It's an incredible book and you know about the he tried to commit suicide he and every time his life fell apart he would go back to the parish priest and the guy would share the gospel with him.

Seemed to be a real solid believer when you look at the stuff that he said to him but along the way he tells the story of all the different things that he was involved in and every single time it's me and my friends from Oxford met up with these guys from Cambridge and then I went to America and hung out with all these guys from Harvard and we started so he was at the beginning of all of these different now institutions of comedy the National Lampoon.

He helped start National Lampoon when he came to America, right? And every single one came out of these high Ivy League schools and he said and every single one was a group of people who had no plans for the world.

All they wanted to see was it burn down and comedy was the tool that they used to go after civilization because you can assume the moral center, right? And they just assume the moral center against civilization but what we've done is we've retreated and said well I guess we don't have a weapon that can fight back but the reality is we've got the, all of the best comedians throughout history came from here, right?

Came from Western civilization, came from the at the I mean even a guy like Chaucer, he's one of my favorite writers, guy was hilarious and he knew how to tell a joke, he knew how to he's got one of his long poems it's this very feels like this very very serious poem and the entire thing is a set up to a fart joke right?

And this is like high English literature one of the greatest, right? I mean Shakespeare is not as funny but most of the great English literature is has really really funny aspects to it and we've said we're too good for that, right?

Lore’s Comedy Projects and Launch Plans

Yeah, no. I absolutely hear what you guys are saying, so what's going on with lore, right? So you guys have, you know it's not all comedy but you have some comedies coming out, do you want to talk about any of that?

Yeah, so.

We've got a show for boys and their dads called Barely Biblical from one of the animators of Phineas and Ferb and it's the it's stuffed animated bears acting out the most violent stories of the Old Testament so it's really funny and it's a good way it's a good way to get boys to want to learn the Bible, you know watching bears hack other bears to pieces with swords and hold their head up and watch the fluff fall out like it's blood you know and all of the Gentile bears have a full tag intact and all of the Jewish bears have clipped tags.

It's just a really really funny show. I'm really excited for that one, we've got one called Churchville that we just signed that is really funny and it's a show like The Office or with some sketch comedy mixed in about two churches across the street from one another and all of just the goofy things that happen in church life but it's a show for adults right a lot of the jokes will go over the head of kids but it's really funny and it's funny in a way you know the way something like the Fresh Prince of Bel-Air was funny where they said hey we love black culture and we think that you'll love it too if we just introduce it to you, you know that same sort of approach to the church like we've got goofy uncles.

We've got the camp counselor that thinks if he could just get all of the boys to stop masturbating, Revival would break out, you know like we've got those people in the church and there are people, we love them, we love the church but that's still goofy like that's still funny so we've got that, we've got some other we've got other sketch comedy shows we have sitcoms what am I leaving out Marcus?

Oh we've got a really great oh yeah we've got hashtag fake news the hashtag fake news show where they take different headlines from the week and act them out and it's really funny. We have a rom-com called The Lesbian and the Lumberjack about a woman, a Portland woman who thinks she's a lesbian but it turns out she's just never met a real man.

So when her car breaks down on the side of the road.

A very relatable story in Portland. Exactly.

A lumberjack comes to help her fix her car and she's like I just don't understand these feelings that I have. And we've got serious stuff too. We've got some incredible movies adult animation. We've got some good horror movies.

We've got a lot of the artists that God has raised up and given the skills are ready to go. They've just never had a place where they can go to an audience and say let me tell you the story I really want to make.

I want to make a post-apocalyptic show about after the zombie apocalypse. The guy that says I want to start a pizza delivery company has to deliver pizzas through the apocalypse. It's like stuff that is fantastic.

Very talented artists. That in the Christian world because most of what we've made is obsessed with a particular it's obsessed with a particular kind of conversion story. It's really just trying to be a sermon illustration and not a movie.

It's not culture building it's just a good way to put it, a sermon illustration. And so because of that.

A lot of these artists have the church has sloughed them off hasn't embraced them and they just want to serve their people, right? They just want to serve an audience with the stories that they have to tell so I can't wait to show.

The stuff we've got to the world. I'm so excited about it, I really am and I think that I do think that a lot of, you had mentioned sort of the younger 1689 guys memeing on you into oblivion. A lot of the younger people get this kind of stuff they're not too uptight and they know the power of some of this kind of stuff and so they get it they're ready for something like this.

I love our elders and I'm always going to honor them and all that kind of stuff and I think that they'll get it even if they have to be drug kicking and screaming. Right but I keep telling Marcus this in side chats and stuff.

This is an idea whose time has come you know what I mean? It's time man. Anything else you can tell me about Lord? Do you guys have an official launch date yet? We're going to be at the NRB.

Conference and I will say that by all intents and purposes we will be launched at the NRB conference officially.

So that's at the end of May so we're hopefully right around the corner here.

We're actually just working on the very beginning of doing basic bug checks on the new site before we start to do a soft launch in the next week or so so we'll start to let people in very soon and then we'll do official announce towards the end of the month so it's going to be great.

It's going to be really fantastic. We're going to have a bunch of projects to fund and we'll see which funds first. So it's going to be. It's going to be really great.

That's the best part about it too. I like how it's like a game for me. It's like a game on how to get your projects funded. You know what I mean? You only have so much but you could I could do a video about it to help get what I want out there.

Who knows? It might not be a documentary, who knows?

Right. Yeah I think I think it's going to do really well. We already have a lot of people that have wanted to sign up as paying customers just to do bug checks for us so that's a great sign. We've raised money to get us to launch and it's going to happen.

So it's taken two years of hard work. It didn't come overnight. You know we never found a multi-millionaire donor that wrote us a check for 50 million dollars or anything like that. So it's just been hustle and grind and one step at a time with what we had and what God's given us it's worked out in our favor because we've had two years to build a reputation among some of the most talented filmmakers in the Christian universe that don't work for the Christian film industry.