Are Stay At Home Dads Worse Than Unbelievers?

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01:26

Welcome to Bible Bash, where we aim to equip the saints for the works of ministry by answering the questions you're not allowed to ask.

01:32

We're your hosts, Harrison Kerrig and Pastor Tim Mullett, and today we'll answer the age -old question, are stay -at -home dads worse than unbelievers?

01:41

Now, as we kick this episode off, Tim, what Bible verses or what Bible passage do you have to help prime us for this conversation?

01:50

I mean, the obvious Bible passage is 1 Timothy 5 -8, which says that if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his own household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

02:02

So let's go with that. All right, well, you know, I think that's a good place to wrap up the episode,

02:07

Tim. So, you know, hey, we appreciate all the support that you guys give to us. You know, we were joking right before we started recording.

02:17

Hey, I'm cool with it, man. We can end it now. Just wrap it up. That's all we need. You know,

02:22

I can't say it better than Paul did, man. So, you know, I've got some other things I've got to go do after this.

02:28

So, no, we were joking. We were joking before we started recording, and I was basically telling

02:34

Tim, you know, it's crazy how the Bible just says this.

02:41

Like, this isn't like a – a lot of times people think that when we're doing these episodes, we're trying to do these sort of like gotcha questions or, you know, something that's like this loaded kind of question that we don't actually mean.

02:55

You know, we're just doing it to try to, you know, stir people up to rage and bitterness or something.

03:02

That's people's response in a lot of different cases. Like, I mean, people generally think that for some reason.

03:09

I mean, I think people are hostile to the things that we're saying. They typically generally go there. They think that the point of our titles is just to tick people off or something along those lines.

03:18

But, I mean, the point is just to ask like legitimate questions that people don't want to hear.

03:24

Right, and it's like – this is a very obvious example of that where it's like you can – I mean, you can accuse us of that if you'd like, but then it's like –

03:33

I mean, it's just a Bible verse that this question is coming from.

03:38

And it's – in my mind, I mean, it just totally blows my mind. I guess I should be ashamed that it still blows my mind that I'm still giving people this much credit.

03:49

But it just blows my mind that the Bible can be so absolutely, unequivocally clear on a certain point, and then people will still get mad about it.

04:01

And they'll accuse you of like, hey, you're just trying to stir people up. And it's like, man, just think about how mad you're going to be when you realize that we actually mean these things, you know.

04:11

There's – yeah, I mean, there's a lot of times where people – like this happens a lot in what I'm preaching in general where – so there's a couple things that are going on here.

04:22

But one of the things that's going on is – I mean, that does happen to me on a regular basis when I'm preaching is

04:28

I'll just quote a Bible verse, but then often when I'm quoting Bible verses, I kind of paraphrase them or just say them loosely.

04:35

I might like, you know, 1 Timothy 5 .8 says, you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So I'll say something along those lines where I'm just kind of paraphrasing a

04:42

Bible verse. And what generally happens is like I'll have someone come up to me after the service like just very concerned and very confused, wondering, you know, why

04:53

I just said what I just said, you know? So like an example of that would be just like, you know, at some point in my preaching ministry,

05:00

I made an offhanded comment that, you know, women are the weaker vessel, right? Yeah. Stuff like that.

05:06

Then I had a church member come up to me after the service and, you know, why would you say that? Why are you saying that women are the weaker vessel?

05:13

And it's like, well, I'm just quoting the Bible here. Let me pull it out and show you where I'm quoting it, right?

05:20

Like this is just a Bible. So I think sometimes like people, what's happening with these kind of things is people don't, they really don't understand, like they're just so ignorant of what the

05:30

Bible says that they just have no category for the way that the Bible speaks.

05:35

So part of it's that, you know, part of it is that people have become so familiar with the

05:41

Bible too, like in the opposite way, meaning like you're, you listen to a

05:46

Bible phrase and people kind of, it's not that they're familiar with it. They just do a weird kind of Charlie Brown thing where like they hear the words that are coming out, but they don't process them as like real words.

06:02

Right? Yeah. It's like a, yep. I read that Bible verse that is in the

06:07

Bible. Yeah. Anyway. Yeah. So that's all that happens. Like, so then like, but, but then like this kind of thing happens with Jesus where, you know, he's talking to the

06:17

Pharisees where he's saying you brood of vipers who warns you to flee from the wrath to come something like that to where they'll hear those and they'll say, okay, those are

06:25

Bible words, but they don't process what just happened in that moment. Like where Jesus was standing in front of like people and calling them brood of vipers.

06:35

Right. So they won't process like how offensive that was like by modern standards.

06:41

And it doesn't kind of dawn on them that like the Bible just doesn't share their standards at all.

06:47

Right. Like the Bible just has like a completely and totally different standard of communication than what they're realizing.

06:53

And then, so, so when you're thinking of something like, you know, if anyone doesn't provide for members of his own household, he has denied the faith and he's worse than unbeliever.

07:01

We're so used to hearing that. Like there's people who've never heard that before, but then the people who have like, just they're trained to have

07:08

Bible impulses where they just don't recognize what's being said. So it just kind of goes out their brain. They don't know what to do with it.

07:14

Right. There's just like ignore, you know, whatever. But then it's just like, there's so many things in that that are just so counterintuitive to the way that we expect to communicate and the way that we like our expectations for what is appropriate communication and our expectations of like what we should be saying in general.

07:35

So, I mean, like the whole, like, for example, like the idea of saying that someone is worse than an unbeliever, that would be communicating that unbelievers are bad.

07:47

But we're not really, are we allowed to, to acknowledge that unbelievers are like wretched people to be around?

07:56

No, you can't say that, Tim. Are you allowed to say that they're like pitiable people that are just like, just awful people?

08:05

Like, you know, so like, it doesn't. No, no, Tim, because I want to love people like Jesus loved people.

08:11

All right. So then think about that. So like, if you love people like Jesus loves people in people's minds, they think that what it means to love people is to affirm them.

08:20

Right. Yeah. So you have to affirm all like every like, you know, letter in the

08:27

LGBT, you know, for instance, alphabet as like special and unique and whatever else you can't call them like awful contemptible people.

08:35

Right. You can't say that about them. You can't say worse than an unbeliever as if unbelievers are bad, like as if they're not just like us and just normal, you know, but then like, you look at like our

08:45

Twitter line when we, when we made this poll. And I mean, there's just like the scum of the earth, like the literal scum of the earth.

08:55

Like, I mean, there's like, like disgusting things being said. Yeah. I mean, it's just awful, like awful, like wretched people, like coming out of the woodworks to, you know, just absolutely like people can't even like, they have no reading comprehension ability, like no understanding of logic, no nothing, you know, and they're engaged in all this depravity and like the way that they communicate the way they talk.

09:17

I mean, it's just like, these are wretched people that you would not want to be around, you know, in real life.

09:22

Like they're just filled with malice and hate and, you know, all manner of wickedness and all manner of evil. So, you know, part of it is just Paul saying that if a person doesn't provide for his household, he's worse than that.

09:35

Right. So that, that hits people weird. Like if they, if they could, if they could actually hear what's being said, like it should hit them pretty weird.

09:42

Right. Like that should make them pretty weird. But then like the other thing that's really people don't realize what's happening here, like with the way their expectations is, you know,

09:51

I do a poll. I can't do a poll on Twitter where I simply say our stay at home.

09:58

Dad's worse than unbelievers. Have they denied the faith and worse than unbelievers. I can't even do that because there's this expectation in literally everyone's mind, even the solid people that I need to qualify that statement to death.

10:13

Right. Yeah. So I can't make, I can't just say it like Paul, like even the solid people, you know, like, you know, and if you're listening to our podcast and you're one of the solid people, then just, just take this one, you know, like, like we should be able to generalize as, as much as Paul generalizes.

10:30

Okay. And Paul really generalized. Right. I mean, that's a, that's a generalization, right? Yeah. There were no what abouts in the

10:36

Bible. And he feels no need whatsoever to say, Hey, yeah. You know what guys, when I said that, you know,

10:42

I wasn't talking about, you know, James over there who just got his legs cut off because he was a

10:49

Christian martyr, you know, and he can't go back to his carpentry job anymore or stuff like that. You know,

10:54

I mean, obviously he's cool, man. You know, I'm not talking about him. I'm just talking about in general, you know, like, like he does, like, you know,

11:02

Paul feels no need to do that. Right. Right. He feels no need to, you know, he, he knows like, he expects people to understand exactly what he's saying and to not like qualify the thing endlessly to death, you know?

11:16

And so like online, we did a poll on this and I mean, I had to qualify it to death, you know, just to keep from having the comments, the comment sections, you know, filled up with, you know, the one in 1, you know, million kind of example of, you know, the poor guy who went to, you know, the vet who got his leg blown off, or, you know, the guy who just got unrighteously fired and is now looking for a job, you know, for his faith or something like that, or, you know,

11:40

I mean, all these kinds of like the man who, like you shouldn't even have to talk about the man who was widow, who is widowed.

11:46

Right. Who is a stay at home dad or something like that? Because like the whole category of a stay at home dad is that is a man who lets his wife work while he goes and, you know, plays the domestic role that she should be playing.

12:01

That's the very definition. So, I mean, it's pretty funny. I did a poll on that and I just put that definition underneath it.

12:06

And just people didn't even read the thing, you know, but, but I mean, it's just like, no, we're not talking about all those things.

12:11

We're talking about the man who refuses to go to work. That's what we're talking about. Like the man who refuses to go to work.

12:18

And instead of him going to work to provide, he's going to let his wife be the provider and he's going to be the domestic person.

12:26

So, you know, we shouldn't have to provide those kinds of qualifications. Paul doesn't provide those kinds of qualifications, but I mean, it seems to me that there's a, that's exactly what

12:34

Paul's talking about. Like that kind of situation in general. I mean, I'm not saying he's that's the exact situation that he has in mind, but that's a very direct application of that kind of principle, obviously.

12:47

Right. So talking in, talking about all of the, you know, people demand endless qualifications and whatnot, just, just for, just to even like entertain your simple question about things.

13:01

And then, you know, on top of that, there's a, there's a, there's a, it's like, it doesn't really seem like it's that beneficial anyway.

13:38

Yeah. Cause people don't even pay attention to it half the time, but then, you know, in, in talking about that, it might be helpful for us here to define, what are we talking about with a stay at home dad?

13:50

What, what do we actually mean? You know? So you mentioned like, it's not this, it's, you know, it's not, or you implied, it's not the guy who got his leg blown off serving our country.

14:01

It's not the guy who got fired for his faith. It's not the guy who got fired for his faith. It's not the guy who has a job where he works from home.

14:06

Right. So what, what is the stay at home dad? I mean, I just did a simple brave search on this and I put this on the online, but you know, a stay at home dad is a father who is the primary caregiver of their children and is generally the homemaker of the household.

14:21

Okay. So stay at home. Dad is a father who is the, I'll read that again. Is the primary caregiver of their children and generally the homemaker of the household.

14:31

And then in this quote, it says the female equivalent of a stay at home dad is a father who is the stay at home mom or housewife, right?

14:37

So it's a male housewife, right? That's what we're talking about. Male housewife, man, mom, right? Or as Lone Star put it,

14:43

Mr. Mom, Mr. Mom, you know, and then the quote says, as families have evolved, the practice of being a stay at home dad has become more common and socially acceptable.

14:53

According to urban dictionary, stay at home. Dads are usually people who have failed at other manly pursuits, lack any real skills or expertise.

15:07

Oh, I wasn't, I wasn't prepared for that. That's pretty good. I put it all on there, man.

15:13

Like I put it all on there. I even put the urban dictionary part of it, you know, just to help people. That's pretty, that's lacks any skills or expertise.

15:25

I mean, but it is, I mean, I, you know, it is the classic, you know, guy who sits, staying at home, you know, playing video games and that kind of thing, you know?

15:33

So that's, that's what it is. That's what it's talking about. Like the classic dad who's staying at home, playing video games and, you know, barely watching the kids, you know, basically just gets everything done real quick so that he can, you know, do his own thing and all that.

15:46

So, but that's. A guy who's failed at other manly pursuits.

15:53

Yeah. That's, that's pretty good. You know, as a side note, you were, you were talking about what, what should we call this?

16:02

And stay at home dads. And well, that's, you know, one of the options was, um, man, mom, man, mom, people were voting on should, should we call it?

16:12

Oh, should we call them man moms? And my response, I, I liked that because, you know, it's, it's alliteration, you know, it's short, it's you, you remember it easily.

16:23

But then the thing that I didn't like about it, there's one thing I didn't like about it. And that was the fact that, you know, if you use a term like that, you're implying that there's still men.

16:37

All of them. Yeah. All of them are a little bit awkward. I was trying to get people to vote on like the best, uh, replacement for this.

16:42

I mean, I really like transgender role ism, you know, even though it's a mouthful, like, I really liked that because it's, you know, like, um, like a transgender person is obviously like a man.

16:53

I, you know, if you were to think about it like a man, trans, you know, quote unquote, transgender, transgender, um, transitioning to, to be a woman.

17:00

Yeah. It's a man. Who's basically like pretending to be a woman. Right. Yeah. So, but then like the same thing is functionally happening with like the stay at home.

17:07

Dad is a man, right. Uh, who is like transgender role, right? Like transgender role is a meaning like he, like he's taking on the roles of a woman.

17:17

So like, it's just, it's the same kind of idea, you know, is, you know, you, instead of him pretending to be a woman, he's pretending to take on the roles of a woman essentially.

17:26

Right. So, um, I think, um, I was asking, or I was talking to Conley about it cause we had him on last week.

17:34

I was talking to him about it. I was asking him for suggestions. And so he was talking to chat GPT about it.

17:40

And, uh, you know, he, he couldn't get chat, chat GPT to come up with like derogatory names, you know, for it.

17:49

Surprising. But he was trying to get chat GPT to come up with like names that had like a Greek, uh, root or whatever.

17:55

And it came up with like, like, basically. So like house, house father, you know, but he couldn't, it couldn't get him to, he couldn't get it to do anything derogatory, you know?

18:06

So I keep yelling at that, but, you know, so, but I, I think, yeah, I mean, this is like, we, you actually kind of have to think about what's going on here.

18:16

But, you know, a lot of people were a little bit surprised that we're bringing it up because they didn't make, they didn't have any experience with this.

18:22

And, um, but then, you know, I have a job that I, you know, go into customers homes all the time.

18:28

And this is just a thing that's like on the rise where like the standard guy who is, is like a man, mom, like, he's just, uh, he's like a gamer addict kind of guy who's just worthless.

18:40

You know, like, uh, I just went into one of these guys homes like last week, you know, and like, I come to the house to do some, you know, do my job there.

18:47

And he's, he's, he's sitting there in his pajama pants with his shirt off. You know, like waking up, you know, you know, barely awake, you know, uh, half asleep.

18:59

And then, you know, I'm doing work for his house, like in order to like, um, do work on his, uh, his video game area, you know?

19:07

So like, that's the standard guy. But, um, you know, a lot of people, they just don't realize that this is actually like a real big problem right now.

19:14

And, and Christians don't really have a whole lot of answers to this, but just some stats, uh, stats that I posted about this too.

19:21

Like according to Pew Research Center, an estimated 2 .1 million fathers were stay -at -home dads in 2021.

19:29

So 2 .1 million. Wow. That's up like 8%, uh, essentially since 1989.

19:37

So this is on the rise, but the, you know, it, it, it basically says, uh, like there's, there's different categories of this.

19:44

Okay. So like the stay -at -home fathers tend to be older than stay -at -home mothers. Uh, so that may explain why so many, or at home due to illness or disability.

19:53

But then like, this isn't always true though. So you have like the older kind of type of stay -at -home dad, but then you also have like, you know, and this is, this number, number is kind of startling, like in post

20:04

COVID world, about 14 % of dads with young children, about, so here, here, this 14 % of dads with young children are out of the workforce, not actively looking for a job and taking care of the kids full time.

20:20

And, and, Wow. 14%, 14%. Like that.

20:26

Now that's, that's like a staggering number. Yes. Yes. Now, pre COVID that number was in the one to 5 % range.

20:34

And now, yes. So post COVID 14 % of dads with young children.

20:39

So think about with young children, right? Stay at home. I go, young children are, you know, they're out of the workforce.

20:45

So like you have the other category, like, which isn't related to this as much of like the older guy, who's probably taking, like a stay at home mom with a teenage kids or something like that.

20:54

You know, maybe he's like, you know, I think that kind of gap dad is like the depressed kind of dad who has his mental illnesses or, you know, all of his mental illnesses, excuses.

21:04

And you have like a two income family at some point, he just kind of gives up. Right. And let's the wife take care of it.

21:10

And then they realize that, you know, surprise, they can live off of one income, you know, right. And then he just kind of curls up in a ball.

21:18

He doesn't feel appreciated as work. And, you know, you know, he's, he feels depressed and she just kind of takes it on. And then he just, you know, gives himself over to entertainment or something like that.

21:27

But, you know, this 14 % of dads with young children are out of the workforce, not actively looking for a job and taking care of the kids full time.

21:35

And that's just shocking. That's shocking, particularly when it's with young kids, like what we're talking about.

21:40

So like, this is a real problem. And you look at our, you know, Twitter feed recently, and you realize that Christians don't know how to respond to this, this one.

21:50

so you mentioned, you read, what was that? First Timothy five, eight.

21:56

Is that what it was? You read that at the, you read that at the beginning of the episode.

22:03

And, you know, we jokingly wrapped it up there. Cause it seems pretty clear, but then, you know, if we were, if we're to indulge people who might still have questions, they're not persuaded by the

22:14

Bible verse, you know, how do we know that, that, you know,

22:21

Paul there is talking about the guy who is trading, you know, the quote unquote, traditional, you know, husband role of being the financial provider for the family.

22:35

How do we, how do we know that he's, how do we know that he's the man, you know, the man, mom.

22:41

Yeah. He technically isn't like the man, mom, but then, so, so part of what's happening here is you have like, you have a different series of passages that you can talk about.

22:51

As you're thinking about this kind of question in general. So like, meaning like this, this kind of passage is basically just saying, it's a man's job to be a provider.

22:59

So that's what it's saying. So it's a man's job to take on the role of being a provider. But then you have like, so part of it is like, all right, step one, man's job to take, take over the role of provider.

23:09

But then step two is like, well, what is the woman's role? Right. So what is a woman's role? Well, you know,

23:15

Titus two says the older women likewise, it'll be reverent in their behavior, not slanderers or slaves, so much wine.

23:20

They are to teach what is good. And so train the young women to love their husbands and children, to be self -controlled, pure, working at home, kind and submissive to their own husbands.

23:29

So you think about like a woman's role, that working at home phrase. I had a lady once arguing with me about that, like the working at home phrase, like saying, well, they just happened to be working at home during that time.

23:42

Right. They just happened to be working at home. So maybe now they're not working at home. Now they're in the workforce.

23:48

The problem is it's a compound word in the Greek that basically means to be domestic. So, I mean, that's like what the

23:54

Bible is calling women to do is to be domestic. Like, that's what they're called to do. So, you know,

23:59

Titus two talks about that. You know, first Timothy five, later on in the passage, like the same one we're reading, a man doesn't provide for his own, you know, household, enrolled relatives.

24:10

He's done the faith and worse than unbeliever in that same passage. She's saying, so I'd have the younger widows, Mary bear children, manage their household and give the, the adversary, no occasion for slender.

24:20

So like in that passage, like that's talking about the woman's side of it. The woman's side of it is to be like, to manage your own household, to be a worker at home.

24:27

Right. Paul saying the man's job is to be a provider. Now, I mean, I think it's,

24:32

I think it's like obvious that in a agrarian society, you know, during Paul's day, you wouldn't have a man who would leave the home for 50 hours or whatever, leave the wife at the home, defend for herself.

24:44

So there's unique problems that we have for living for our society. But like, the real issue is that there's a role designed for a woman.

24:50

And, you know, there are roles designed for men, you know, so men are designed to like subdue the earth. Right. That's why they're made so strong.

24:57

Right. Because they're designed to like Adam's curse was that the ground would, like the work of the ground would be harder because he's made to work the ground.

25:05

Whereas the woman is made to care for children, right. To be domestic, to manage her own household. That's why the Proverbs 31 woman, like her, if you think about like what she does, it's just all the standard women's stuff, like, you know, cooking and caring for her household, making clothes for the household, you know, like, so that they're not afraid of the winter providing food, right.

25:24

She rises early and her lamp doesn't go out at night because she's providing food for her household. So, I mean, like the

25:30

Proverbs 31 woman is doing largely all the domestic stuff that everyone, you know, hates. Titus two, first Timothy five are basically just reinforcing this point that a woman has a job.

25:41

So like, you have a woman has a job and you have a man who has a job. And like, here's the issue.

25:46

So you think about first Timothy five, a man who doesn't provide for his own household. He's abandoned the faith. He's worse than the unbeliever.

25:53

You look at that. Like you think about the kind of man who refuses to provide for his home, the kind of man who refused, like not only does he like, so the situation of the man, mom is even worse than what

26:05

Paul has in mind. So it's not just like, it's a man who's not only rejecting his role of being provider, but he's putting on an apron.

26:14

And taking on the woman's role, you see what I mean? So it's like, that's adding insult to injury.

26:20

That's even worse than the situation that Paul has in mind. So you have, you have a spineless man who's not only not doing the thing he's called to do, but then he's, you know, engaging in transgender role as essentially.

26:31

Right. So you, you take a man, like you, you put them into a woman's job and he's going, he's not going to do it.

26:38

Well, he's not going to do the woman's job. Well, he's just, it just looks awkward. It looks embarrassing. And a lot of people just couldn't understand that basic point.

26:45

Either. It's, it's honestly pretty, you know, like I said earlier, it's a pretty jarring position to take, to say that, you know, a passage like this, a passage like this doesn't count.

27:01

That's right. For the guy who is performing the woman's role. Right. Because for all the reasons you've said, right.

27:12

Yes. I mean, it's bizarre, you know, and I think that a lot of people, they just couldn't. So like, if you, if you look at a situation like that, you look at a man doing a woman's job, like you should cringe, right.

27:25

Right. Yeah. I mean, it feels embarrassing. It feels like a, like a shameful thing. It's like, like you imagine a guy sitting around all day long, holding a baby, doing dishes, you know, folding the laundry.

27:38

And then his wife comes home and he's like, how's your day? How's your day, honey? You have a nice day at work.

27:43

I mean, it's so emasculating. It's so painful. It's so like, it's so cringe worthy, you know, but then

27:49

I think what, what would happen is you'd have like people who would come along and then they would think, well, if you make fun of that guy, then you're trivializing the woman's role.

27:59

Yeah. That's kind of the response they have. Like you're trivializing the woman's role. Like, so basically if it's a joke that this man would do the woman's job, if that's such a big joke, then aren't you really mocking women right there?

28:12

Like, aren't you really, but, but the issue is it's like, no, like you're not. I can, this is something that it's just like almost impossible to get people to understand who are predisposed to not want to understand it.

28:22

But it's like, you're talking about two totally different things here. Right. So like in the same way, like if you look at Dylan Mulvaney wearing a dress, prancing around like a, you know, six year old girl or something like that, like that's deserving of mockery.

28:37

But in mocking like Dylan Mulvaney, you're not mocking women who act like women.

28:42

Do you understand? Yeah. Because that's what they're like. Yes. So like, they're like that, you know,

28:50

I mean, women are women and they're made to be women, but then like, I mean, certainly like you've seen like the pictures of pictures online where, you know, the ladies are engaging in like the, you know, the girl poses or whatever.

29:05

And then you have a guy come along and like trying to make the poses or whatever.

29:11

Yeah. You have like the, the dad trying to embarrass his, you know, teenage daughter or something. And by doing the same, the same pose, you know, the sorority squat and duck face.

29:22

And it looks weird. It looks like unnatural. What's going on.

29:28

So, but then the issue is, it's like, well, if you laugh at the guy doing that, right. Like the guy's doing all the glamor pose, like the glamor facial expressions or whatever.

29:37

Like, you know, are you laughing at the woman doing it? It's like, well, no, I mean, I, I think like what you're not doing is you're not making fun of women in that way.

29:45

What you're, what you're acknowledging is that two people are made for two very different things. So like a man is not made for beauty in that way.

29:52

And so if he tries to do it, it just looks like a caricature. Right. And so in the same way, it's like, it's the same kind of thing where, like if a woman tries to act tough, like, like, you know, a woman cop, you know, one of our followers, like I was trying to make this point about how unnatural it is for like a woman police officer.

30:11

And they shared like a video of a lady cop who was basically trying to be tough with this old man and, you know, pushing this old man into a car.

30:18

And the old man's like, you know, what wasn't having any of it, you know, she's telling them to sit on the ground like a child or whatever.

30:24

And it was like, she doesn't look tough. Right. She's not made for this job. It's like, she's making a mockery of being a police officer because she can't even restrain one old man here.

30:32

Right. So like, so, but then the issue is like, it's the same thing is happening here. When you take a man who's designed for hard physical labor, it's like, you know, men have significantly more upper body strength than women.

30:45

Like you take a man who's designed for physical hard labor. Like you have a, you have a man who's designed to subdue the earth.

30:52

Like so many, there's so many design features that are different between the design of a man and a woman. You, you put a man in a man role and he's going to look good doing a man job.

31:01

You put a man in a female role and you're going to realize, man, this doesn't fit. You know, this is a joke. This is like a comedy like movie that we're watching here.

31:08

Right. This is like Arnold Schwarzenegger being the homemaker or something like that. That's, that's a joke.

31:13

That's not, that's not like, because it's just like, it's such a waste of everything that he is to, to get him to sweep floors or something like that.

31:23

It's like, you know, so you should be dragging a truck somewhere, right? No, he should be dragging a train somewhere.

31:31

I mean, but then you think about him like sweeping up on the house, right? It's like, well, that was a profound waste of all of that.

31:37

Right. So you've broken like 20 brooms, snapping them in half on accident.

31:43

Yeah. So that's, that's kind of the point. So you like, like a woman is designed to care for small children. The woman is designed to make a house, a home like she's designed to do it.

31:52

You know, hang on. How dare you say that, Tim? It's like, it's like you're, it's like you're acting like women have, you know, even body parts that are supposed to help raise a child.

32:04

What's wrong with you, Tim? Breastfeeding didn't give it away. If the breastfeeding didn't give it away, then, you know, it's funny, like even like, you know, women who are like significantly in shape, they're like, you know, 20 % body fat or something like that.

32:20

Over and against like men who are significantly in shape, having like 1 % body fat or something like that. But then like, why is that?

32:26

Well, like, like that extra body fat percentage makes women like very soft. That's why like men like to touch women because how soft they are.

32:35

Right. Like that's the way it works. And so, but then why, why would God do that? Well, because they're like part of it.

32:41

Yeah. To be enjoyed by men. But the other part of it is like they make better baby holders than men.

32:47

Right. Right. Like, like you take a guy with like huge, you know, steroid jacked up muscles holding a baby.

32:53

It's just like, am I going to crush this thing? You know? And that's like, many men have that kind of reaction. Like, and you know, and they have a difficult time comforting the baby because like, why wouldn't you feel like, like uncomfortable being like held by a rock.

33:06

Right. So you think about it like that. I mean, like women are designed to like really care about like, like the home, be oriented towards the home, be oriented towards small children.

33:17

They're made to be sensitive. They're made to be caring. You know, you can imagine a man going in, like, um, um, the child gets hurt, you know?

33:26

Like, I mean, all the jokes apply. Like the child gets hurt. The man pulls out the roll of duct tape, you know?

33:32

Yeah. You know, I mean, like the issue is, it's not that men can't take care of children.

33:38

It's just that what that man's going to do to that child is like that man's the way he's going to take care of that child.

33:44

It's not like he's incompetent to it. It's just to do it. It's just going to be like, all right, you're going to get tough really quick.

33:50

Right. You're going to get tough. No crying, no emotion, no nothing. Right. Eat what

33:56

I tell you to eat. Do what I tell you to do. You know, it's like, I mean, so the standard kind of man can't just like step into that lady role, you know?

34:04

And there's a place for that. I mean, children need to grow up, but like the, you know, everything they need get both sides of that too.

34:11

Right. Right. For sure. Now, what do you, you know, what about the argument that, you know, this passage, it really does, in a lot of ways, the, the person that's going to come to mind is the sort of, the, the guy that you described earlier, the one who's just sitting, you know, sitting on the couch, shirtless, playing video games, barely awake.

34:35

You know, he just woke up. It's, it's 10 o 'clock in the morning, just woke up on a weekday.

34:41

That, that kind of lazy, sort of good for nothing person. Right now that I've seen many make the argument that, you know,

34:50

Hey, the, the dad who is at home. So, so not that guy, but the dad who's like getting up early, he's staying home while his wife goes to work.

35:00

He's taking care of the kids. He's cleaning the house. You know, he's going to the grocery store. He's cooking all the meals.

35:07

I mean that, you know, he's not being necessarily lazy. Right. He's working.

35:13

And I mean, can't we say that that is providing for your family? Well, it's not providing in the way that the

35:20

Bible is describing. Okay. Meaning that men and women are designed, I guess, different tools that are designed to provide different things.

35:27

So that's part of the problem. So like, I mean, in the language of Proverbs 31, a woman provides like clothing for the household.

35:34

Right. The woman is providing food for her household. So like, meaning like there's just different roles that each person is made to provide.

35:41

Right. So the woman is a provider in one sense, a man is a provider in another sense. And so like, that's kind of the issue.

35:47

So like the woman is taking the resources that the man gives her and doing, you know, providing, you know, food and clothing and everything else with it.

35:55

You know, so like a man, like it's just a man's job to put a roof over people's head. That's like a man's job.

36:01

Right. So Jesus says, I go to prepare a place for you that where I am, you may be also. Right. So yeah, it's a man's job to put that roof over their head.

36:09

And then it's a woman's job to decorate that thing, you know, like, and I mean, it's just like all the standard gender stereotypes are all in the

36:17

Bible all over the place. So like the issue is not like that, you know, men only provide women don't provide the issue is what are they meaning to provide?

36:25

Does that make sense? Yeah. No. Yeah. So, I mean, a man can like be like, the issue is like, is there anything about like, is there anything necessary about like a mom's interaction with young children in particular?

36:41

Is there anything necessary about her interaction as a homemaker and everything else? And so part of what's happening is like the standard man is just not going to be nearly as oriented towards those kinds of things, nearly as gifted in those kinds of ways as caring for caring for small children.

36:59

You know? So, I mean, a lot of that's just like the way that they're biologically made. You know, there's a reason why that these jokes exist, where like when the mom leaves, you know, mom has to go shopping.

37:12

Dad's watching the baby. The baby spends most of the time crying, right? Yeah. Well, the dad spends his time, you know, playing, you know, video games or doing things like that because men are just not nearly, they don't like, so a lot of it's like men are just not nearly as sensitive as women, right?

37:26

To these kinds of things. They're not nearly as nurturing, you know, they're not nearly as compassionate. They're not.

37:31

So they're, they're not designed to do these things in the same kind of way, but then, you know, you, there's obviously like scenarios where you can have a man who just like throws himself into like all the effeminacy that he can muster.

37:44

And he, you know, he becomes that replacement mother for those kids, right? Right. Like he can, like, so I'm not trying to say that that kind of situation is impossible, but the man can't do that.

37:54

Then maybe they're like, there's a, like a hard, you know, woman who's men in the workforce her whole life who hasn't.

38:00

I mean, a lot of like ladies, they enter into the workforce and they train all their mothering instincts out of themselves because they're used to being around men so much.

38:08

And they start acting like men. They have a child and they're just like, I don't even know what to do with this thing. Right. So I don't want to breastfeed the thing.

38:15

I don't even want to, I'm sick of it crying at me. Right. I don't have any kind of compassion.

38:20

I don't have any kind of mothering instincts towards it. And so a lot of like ladies, they've just, they've so embraced feminism.

38:27

They like in that kind of way as an ideology and they've thrown themselves into man works for so, for so long that like, yeah, the lines are blurring, you know, and then, you know, society is emasculated so many men to the point where those men are more, you know, nurturing and caring.

38:43

And maybe you have a situation where the man's more nurturing than the woman, you know, even, and that's like, contrary to their design.

38:49

But like, you know, that, that could be the case, but that would be like, so part of it is like, that would be like a scenario where, you know, you have, like, you can imagine like a police officer scenario where like the, the

39:07

Metro sexual man, like makes for like the worst band cop that you can possibly imagine.

39:13

Right. Like you can imagine like the Metro sexual man cop, right.

39:19

You know, who has the Cara Dune partner. Right. Like, I mean, that kind of freak scenario can happen, right.

39:26

Like to where it's just like, he's scared of every traffic interaction that they have and, you know, crying on her shoulder or whatever.

39:33

And she's trying to help them to toughen up a little bit, you know, and it, all that, I mean, that can happen, but that's just not

39:40

God's design. Right. Like in the vast majority of cases, like, you know, the woman is not even going to be like that.

39:46

Right. Like, they're just going to be the standard lady cop in the man role that, you know, is getting beat up by the thugs.

39:52

Right. Like, that's what's going to happen. And then if you have like the guy who's just a complete and total wimp, it's like, well, maybe she has a little more courage than this wimp guy.

40:00

Right. But like, this is not the way the world works. So part of it's like it, you just have to trust

40:06

God that he knew what he was doing by giving these roles. But even if you don't agree with all that, or even if you want to point to endless exceptions, the end of the matter is

40:14

God commanded it. Right. You get what I'm saying? Yeah. Like it should just be, you know,

40:21

I'm going to ask, I'm going to ask you a question here in a second that, well, you know, let me go ahead and ask you this because it is related to the, so you're talking about,

40:28

Hey, trust in the Lord. Yeah. Trust the Lord with all your heart, lean not under your own understanding and all your ways, acknowledge him and direct your path.

40:34

Right. You know, like his ways are higher than our ways. Right. He under, he like, he is the one who tells us to begin with what is good and what is evil.

40:43

You know, it seems, it seems like it would be pretty, this, this specifically seems like a pretty, you know, open and shut case given the verses we've read so far.

40:51

But then, you know, some of the pushback we got on this, on this subject was related to, well, what about when the, you know, when the wife makes more than the husband.

41:02

So let's say you have two people coming together. They were both working. The husband makes significantly less than the wife.

41:09

I mean, then isn't it, isn't it okay then to, you know, let the, let the wife work since she makes so much more money.

41:16

Like let, let's just make it totally ridiculous. Like she makes 500 K a year. And he makes, and he makes, you know, 45.

41:25

I mean, isn't, isn't that like the exception? Yeah.

41:30

I mean, so, you know, does life consist of the abundance of things, right? So like, is there, is that all there is to it?

41:36

You know, so a lot of people, they're only thinking along these things on one axis. And that's this, the axis of money.

41:42

And they don't have a category for what I just said, like trusting the Lord with all your heart, not leaning on your own understanding and all your ways, acknowledging him and he'll direct you to the path.

41:50

I mean, my wife and I, we made a decision early on that she was going to be a stay at home mom and I was going to provide. And I have, we didn't start off marriage with me having like a wonderful plan.

41:58

I provision, I had two Bible degrees, no backup plan. And, you know, God's always just provided a way for that to happen.

42:05

And it's not been easy. You know, it's been hard at times. It was more difficult sometimes than other times, but like God, you know,

42:13

God blesses faithfulness. So, I mean, you just trust him and like you have to sacrifice, you know? So like the

42:18

Bible says, no one can serve two masters, right? You, you can't serve God and you can't serve money. Like you can't serve both at the same time.

42:24

You know, you have to really believe like that it's better to, you know, suffer in the here and now in order to obey

42:30

God. So like you lay up for yourself, treasures in heaven, not treasures on earth. Um, you don't want,

42:36

I mean, isn't, isn't that like a pretty obvious, like, Hey, this glorifies

42:41

God. Like I turned down 500 K to, I mean, yeah, no one who's like giving up houses and lands and properties for like, uh,

42:50

God's sake. Yeah. Well, I mean, like anyone who's done that, that will receive more in this life.

42:56

And then even in the next life to come. So, you know, God acknowledges that no one can be my disciple unless he count the cost.

43:02

And there's often costs, you know, and some of that cost might be some of the stuff now, you know, and we'll, we'll get back at some point.

43:08

So some of it's that, but then I do think that like when people, part of what's happening is people are not thinking about this topic along every single access that they should access, that they should be thinking about it.

43:21

So thinking like in very narrow ways, like meaning. So like, if money is the only consideration, then obviously, all right, we'll do what makes the most money.

43:29

Right. So buy a 500 K job and do that. The problem though, is like, if you actually look at men who are stay at home, moms, everyone has like the same kind of reaction.

43:41

Even you're not allowed to say it, but everyone knows, like, you just feel very embarrassed and very, very humiliated for that kind of guy.

43:50

Right. Like, it's just, it's just so cringeworthy. Like, like you just want to like, like there's just no way, like it's the same kind of thing where Dylan Mulvaney is prancing around as a girl.

44:03

Like any normal person just looks at that and just like, this is not pretty. Right. This is just embarrassing.

44:10

Like, this is just like, I feel humiliated. Right. Now, but, but imagine like the same thing is happening when a guy takes on a female role.

44:20

It's just emasculating. It's like totally like, how do you respect that?

44:25

Right. So, but then like the issue is, right. So the same thing is happening in both directions because the man's not made to do that role.

44:32

He just looks like a clown doing it. Right. But then when a woman does it, it's glorious. Like it's glorious when a woman does what she's designed to do.

44:39

It's glorious when a man does what he's designed to do. But when a man does what a woman is designed to do, the only way like either he's going to be the worthless video game kind of guy.

44:47

Right. Yeah. Or he's going to be like really throwing himself into that role and like looking like a feminine, like disgusting person.

44:58

Right. Yeah. Loser. So then what happens on the other end is when, when the woman throws herself into the man job, she looks equally unattractive too.

45:07

Right. So like you, like you imagine like this, like soft doughy man who taking on these women jobs, you know, wearing his apron, you know, as he's cooking, you know, and all that and doing all the house.

45:22

I mean, I was saying that like men like look emasculating cooking, but like in order to do this role, you, you end up looking very odd.

45:28

Right. Like if it's like, if your whole role is devoted to, I mean, you know, the kind of guy you're talking about, like the kind of guy who doesn't wear his shoes in the house.

45:36

Right. And it's like sitting there like on the ground, like with Indian style, like talking to kids on their level, kind of, kind of like, you know, like, so that guy is not attractive.

45:47

Now you put that guy next to the boss, babe, like woman, who's the executive or whatever. She doesn't desire him.

45:53

She's not attracted to him and he's not attracted to her. He's scared of her, you know? So like you, like, so meaning like you, you put those people in those kinds of relationships and it's like, you're giving the, you know, like suppose where you're giving the lady what she wants to work and all that.

46:07

I mean, lady, lady doesn't want to work. So like, like, like the, the issue is like, she, she's told she needs to in order to feel okay and feel whatever.

46:14

But then like most ladies, they're not handling 50 hours a week, 60 hours a week. And all the gender pay studies show that kind of thing that like, you think about what's actually happening there.

46:23

Like they're not, they're not willing to work as long hours and as hard hours as men in order to get ahead because they're pulled towards this domestic stuff.

46:31

And so what ends up happening is you put that woman in that situation. She's going to like, she's not meant to bear the load of provision.

46:38

She's not meant to bear the load of all the stress and conflict at work, you know, that everything hangs on her, that the whole family like is depending on her to bring this money in weekend and week out.

46:50

And so she's, you know, she's tired, she's exhausted. She's whatever this man is just kind of like, you know, he's there, you know, he's doing his job, but like he feels emasculated.

47:00

So like, he's depressed, they're depressed, they're both depressed. You put them up, you put them together. And it's like, it doesn't make for happiness even in this life.

47:06

But then like the issue is, is say, Hey, you reject all that. Right. And here's kind of your point.

47:11

Like if you reject all that, you don't agree with all that. You don't think that those generalities hold true. You can't see what

47:16

I'm talking about here. Well, whatever, just do what God says. Right. Let, let him be God. You're not. Yeah.

47:22

So the Bible says no one could be my disciple unless he denied himself, take up his cross and follow me. You know, why do you call me

47:28

Lord? Lord, if you don't do the things that I'm going to say that I say, right. So Jesus is Lord. That's what it means. He's Lord.

47:33

He calls the shots. So like the reality is you do what he says, everyone will be benefit. That wife will be benefited.

47:38

That husband will be benefit. The family will be benefited a thousand ways beyond what I can even describe. Everyone will be benefited.

47:45

But if you don't believe that, just do it anyways. Right. Just let God be God. And you'll realize that you can fight this, you know, you can fight this thing, but it's not good for everyone, you know?

47:56

And I mean, the reality is like the divorce, the divorce, the divorce rate is like 50 % in that kind of scenario.

48:06

So all these things, I mean, it's just a train wreck in every single way. And people just, you know, and that's kind of what happens when you just don't understand that men and women are different.

48:17

So in these passages, are we to understand that Paul means women can never work like a job outside of the home?

48:24

Yeah, I don't think, I don't think that that's, you know, people often will point to, you know, a job outside of the home, you know, the proper study, one woman, she goes and considers a field and she, you know, goes and purchase it, everything else.

48:37

And so like the predominant, the book, like there's some dishonesty that's happening here. And it's one of those things.

48:44

It's very difficult to respond to in a short one sentence kind of thing. So the got yet is,

48:50

Hey, look, she, she does more than work in the home. She goes and she considers a bit field and she buys it. Right. Right.

48:56

You know, she sells her goods. So she makes these, you know, clothing for her own household.

49:01

And then she makes more and she sells them, you know, in the marketplace and, and everything else. And so, look, she's industrious.

49:07

She's got her Etsy business, man. She's got, yeah. But so like the thing, the thing about it is like, like the thing is that you, you have passages like Titus two, you have passages like Proverbs 31.

49:21

Yeah. You have fat passages, like first Timothy, Timothy five. You have like all the narratives in the

49:27

Bible, where all the, all the women are, you know, like Jesus heals the woman. Right.

49:32

She, and then she gets up and she starts serving him. Right. Like, so all the passages in the

49:38

Bible are speaking to like a woman's primary role is to be a worker, like a, to be domestic.

49:44

Right. So like the, the issue is like, if you look at the situation we have in our society right now, the question is not like, is a woman allowed to bring in any money into a house or is a woman allowed to ever work outside the home or anything else?

49:57

Like, I guess she allowed to go to the market and sell her goods or whatever. Like, that's not really the question. The question is like, what is she primarily called to do?

50:06

Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. What is the, what is the most important thing that has to get done every day?

50:12

What, yeah. What, what is the essence of being a wife and a mother? Well, the essence of it is being a homemaker.

50:19

That's the essence of it to make a home. Right. So like, that's what she's doing. That's like the thing.

50:25

Right. So now, like when you live in a society right now, like ours, it has like microwaves, it has, um, refrigerators, you know, that have stoves, you know, washing machines, dryers.

50:36

Yeah. There's a lot to homemaking that has been made a lot simpler now. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

50:41

But the, but, but the issue is like, no, you're not going to be able to work a 50 hour a week job as a woman with small children and be domestic and not have your kids raised by a babysitter or school.

50:55

Right. Yeah. So like, like the issue is like you, like, can you work outside the home? Maybe to some extent, you know, but probably what that's going to look like is you have an, an

51:05

Etsy shop, you know, something that's like extreme, like that you can do in the context of your home that also blesses you financially.

51:12

Right. So like if you're making your kids clothes, so to speak, right. So like make a few extra, sell them on Etsy because you got good at it, but that's not taking you away from what you're called to do.

51:23

That's just an extra thing you're doing to bring beyond what you're called to do. Right.

51:28

Right. And it was, you know, it was enabled by you doing what you're supposed to do to begin with.

51:34

Right. Right. So now, like, if you're going to work outside the home, like the issue is like someone's going to have to be that kid, those kids, moms for you.

51:44

Someone's going to have to pick up that slack for you. You know, I mean, there, there are situations where, you know, a dad can like, you know, dad has a stay at home job.

51:53

A mom has a stay at home, you know, maybe, maybe the dad has a stay at home job that has some flexibility in his schedule and she could take on a shift somewhere and everything else.

52:02

You know, all those things are true. I mean, but there, I mean, there are real temptations and that you're not allowed to talk about, but I mean, there's very real temptations and dangers that come from women working outside the home.

52:15

I mean, adultery is like higher than it's ever been, you know, since the advent of women entering into the workforce, because, you know, you have the guy who has his work wife and the guy who has his home wife.

52:25

Right. And like, you know, so a lot of these things, like you, you can argue for these things in the abstract, but then when you think about like the actual consequences of the kind of things you're saying, it's like, yeah,

52:34

I'm going to send my wife out to a bunch of them, like to work alongside a bunch of unbelieving guys who are going to be constantly trying to flirt with her.

52:44

You know, nonstop. Like, what do you think is going to happen with that? You know, what do you think? Do you think that's good? You know, so like, like when you think about like the reality of the kind of thing that we're even talking about here, a woman's primary job is to be a homemaker.

52:56

And if somehow she can figure out how to add additional like income without neglecting her primary thing with that, without like handing your kids off to be raised by other people, then fine.

53:08

Right. Like, fine. Like, there's no like a prohibition against that, but like, it's just baffling to me that people just can't see the main point.

53:16

Here. Last, last question I'll ask you, what about a situation, you know, where a guy is trying to, you know, like put himself through school or something where he's not necessarily being a stay at home dad.

53:31

Right. But then he's not working this, the normal amount of out like a full time job.

53:39

Is that, is that still violating this command that Paul has given or, or does that fall more in like the, you know, veteran that got his legs blown off or the guy who was fired and he's looking for a new job?

53:52

Yeah. I mean, this is a common question that seminary people face essentially. And it's the question that I really had to think through.

53:59

So, I mean, in my last, in my last year of seminary, there was, so I went to seminary for two years and then

54:09

I did like an internship, like a year long internship as kind of like a break where I was taking very limited classes in there as a counseling internship.

54:17

And during that time I was reacquainted with my, you know, soon to be wife, but, you know, we had known each other before that.

54:25

But like during that time we got married and then she was going to come back with me to seminary for my last year.

54:32

And my plan was, you know, because I hadn't really thought through all of these things like I should, my plan, like I thought just kind of the way that you're saying there that like, well,

54:41

I mean, yeah, I want her to be a homemaker and all that. Right. I want her to be a homemaker, but like, it'd be nice if she could like work full time while I'm in seminary for this last year and free me up so that I can finish this last year of seminary and do that.

54:59

Okay. So she could take on the role of provider temporarily, you know, you know, because it's not really that big a deal.

55:04

Right. So it's just temporarily, she's going to take on the role of provider, you know, for me and, you know,

55:09

I'm going to be domestic and all that. So she's going to do double duty for just to help me get through school. So for the greater good, you know, kind of thing.

55:15

Right. But then I think like very, like it didn't take long.

55:21

Like it took a, took about a month of us trying to figure out how to do that kind of thing to where I realized that like, like, what am

55:29

I doing? You know, like God's called us to be fruitful and multiply the field, the earth and subdue it.

55:35

And here we are just like entirely stressed out, trying to prevent a child. And then having her having to bear the entire weight of putting all the food on our table, you know, like in an environment she's never been in before, like trying to work a job, you know, that's just like, we're just moving up here.

55:52

Right. Randomly. So there's all this pressure being put on her. You need to find a job that's going to pay for all of our bills while I go to seminary.

55:59

And then, you know, like we're going to deny all these, you know, God given purposes of having babies and everything else temporarily, you know?

56:07

And so she went on the birth control pill and, you know, it made her crazy. I don't recommend anyone go on birth control, you know?

56:15

But I mean, it was just a big, like it messes with women's hormones in a pretty big way. And there's all these side effects and, you know, there's like a real concern about like whether or not it's abortifacient.

56:24

So like we're thinking through, is this abortifacient? Like she's going, like, like it's messing with her hormones.

56:31

She's being the provider there. You know, I'm sitting there working seminary, like being largely unavailable, you know, as a, like, because it's just so much work and so much time.

56:41

And then there's all this pressure put on her to do all this stuff, like be a homemaker, be full -time worker, be a new wife, you know?

56:48

And then she's denying all the baby itches and then birth control is messing everything up. And it's just like a big train wreck of mess, you know?

56:55

And at some point I just thought I need to obey God now. Right. Yeah. God says, if a man doesn't provide for his own household, he's abandoned the faith.

57:03

He's worse than an unbeliever. And that kind of stuck in my mind to think I need to do that now. I can't just put that off.

57:09

It's not okay just to say, Hey, I'm not going to do that for a year just for the greater good or something like that, you know?

57:15

So for me, I mean, like I just thought, well, I'm going to have to do it, you know? So I'm going to work full time and I'm going to,

57:20

I'm going to, I need a job, you know? And God gave us a job. We limped along. It wasn't, you know, as easy as what my current plan would be, but you know what?

57:29

Like I could handle the, I could handle 10 times better being a provider and bearing the load of all that.

57:34

And then she could, you know? So, I mean, it just like, it was like, it's one of the most counterintuitive things that people would think is just to say like you take that on while you're a full -time seminary with all the things that I mean, seminary is a beast, man.

57:52

You know, that goes all the things like that was the most counterintuitive thing in the world to say, yeah, you still need to be a full -time provider and she still needs to be like domestic.

58:00

you know, and then, yeah, but we got off the birth control. I did that. She's got pregnant.

58:05

You know, it was great. You know, God provided every step of, no one died. You know, we all lived, we all had food on the table.

58:12

We didn't miss any meals. And it was just like, yeah, I mean, yeah. So we started off life a little bit hard, but God provided everything we need.

58:21

So, I mean, I think the, the issue is, yeah, people can make all those kinds of justifications if they want.

58:27

And I saw all my seminary friends making those kinds of things and they worked out about the same as it did for me.

58:33

You know, I get was, I mean, you know, and they, you know, and I just told him, Hey, you guys just, you need a man up.

58:38

Just, you know, I, I need a man up. You need a man up. We don't need a man up. Just like, you know, and it's just like, just do it,

58:45

Just do what God tells you to do. Quit fighting all the things God tell you to do and then just let him take care of it, you know?

58:52

And so, God, God will take care of it. Okay. All right. Well, I think that's a good place for us to wrap up the conversation on.

59:01

you know, like, like we said at the beginning, at least for me, this is just sort of a jarring, it's very strange to see people even advocating at all, you know, for stay at home dads, given the, given the

59:16

Bible verses we've discussed. So, you know, this is, this is, and, and the, the statistics that you read were,

59:23

I mean, jarring. Yeah. I mean, just so that was, that's so concerning, you know, to know that the, the numbers are, you know, two, 2 .1

59:33

million or whatever it was you said. And, you know, 14%. Yeah.

59:39

Like, those are insane numbers. I, yeah, I mean, this is going to be coming to a church near you.

59:46

yeah. Yeah. And, and so obviously, we don't have answers to these things. We don't, you know, right. I haven't thought through it.

59:53

Right. And, and so we, so, you know, that's, that's why we're having these conversations in order to get, you know, try and give people answers, give them a true biblical perspective.

01:00:04

That's not going to be trying to, you know, cater to the current zeitgeist of our society or, you know, put you in a situation where your, your, your number one love is money or, you know, physical possessions or something like that.

01:00:20

And, you know, encouraging men and women to take on the roles that God has designed them for and not apologize for it.

01:00:29

And then, you know, the, the good thing about doing that is you end up benefiting from it.

01:00:34

Right. So God's commands are good and they lead to good things for us. And so, you know, so that's the purpose of this conversation and hopefully it's given people out there, you know, our, our hope is that you take these things and you, you, you take the things that you've learned from this and you share them with your friends, you know, it's fine to point people back to us and say,

01:00:58

Hey, listen to these guys, but then we want you guys to be able to have the conversations with people yourself and disciple them that way.

01:01:03

Call out sin the way that it needs to be called out for the reasons that it needs to be called out with the specific

01:01:10

Bible verses that back it up. And, you know, for others who might not agree with our stance, the hope is that you hear what we have to say and, you know, think through your actual position and realize that it is actually contrary to the

01:01:24

Bible. And obviously so, so, you know, with all that being said, we appreciate all the support we get from you guys every week.

01:01:31

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01:01:49

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01:01:54

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