Braden Patterson Returns! The Complete Hunting Episode! DMW#198

Hunting, God’s Glory in Creation, and the Discipline of the Craft

Exploring theology doctrine and all of the fascinating subjects in between. Broadcasting from an undisclosed location. Dead men walking starts. What did I put in here. Was that Irish whiskey or is that bourbon.

I don't know maybe. Makers markets. My coach. Hey guys welcome to dead men walking podcast. I'm missing about what's in my cup but yeah if you're watching this if you want to get one of these mugs you absolutely can on dmw podcast.

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Which the guy right now that you're looking at pastor Braden Patterson. He's gonna be there aren't you.

Yes yes sir I'm super excited for it too. It's gonna be a blessing it's gonna be a.

So you. So you've been on the podcast a few times got to sit with you just for a few minutes. When we're told him last year you came on. I don't know. A couple a couple months. It's probably more than that.

Now it just feels like time flies. But for those who don't know. Host of open-air theology. Pastor is still pastor at Valley Baptist. Yes sir. Yep no pastor. Valley Baptist Church host to open-air theology podcast.

He can find his YouTube videos at reformed ex-mormon. And of course like we said he's gonna be one of the guest speakers for the sessions at the why Calvinism conference in Tullahoma Tennessee. But they're also gonna be recording a documentary.

There's gonna be a debate by James White. It is going to be an all-around good time. We're about to get rowdy down there have some fun and welcome back to the podcast brother. Oh.

It's good to be back it's a it's a huge blessing that I got invited back so.

Thank you Greg. Yeah no problem. So I wanted to have you on because we were talking I think through Facebook or social media and you said hey man I'm hunting right now. I said I'm hunting in a couple days.

You're like I'm antelope hunting. I said. I'm just jealous now because I'm just deer hunting. I haven't done really any big game stuff out of state. We have some black bear bobcat coyote fox and deer on my property in northern Michigan and I said cool.

Well let's connect and let's talk about that when you get back. And you just sent me a picture last night you bagged an antelope. You got some meat in the freezer.

Congratulations thank you yeah yeah yeah God was very kind to us this year with.

Providing us with some food for our family. So absolutely. So I came back without anything because just because I'm getting to the age now to where I'm about 600 yards back in a blind I only have foot trails.

I don't have any ATV so I drag everything out by hand or sled very thick forest actually looking for someone to force some of my land because it's so thick so I sit back and if I get a small doe that walks by me the old guy in me starts going.

Is this really worth it. I'm gonna have to get out there and field dress and pull it in hang it process it off. So I'm kind of waiting. I let a couple pass and some spike bucks go by had some does go by.

I was waiting. We had a nice eight point that I had my eye on that was on the trail cam but it didn't come by my way. The bear was in the area a few days before but we didn't see that that black bear.

But you want to I've got private property so we were open in December got muzzle loading season still got some chances so who knows. But yeah my friend give me the lowdown because this is what we want to talk about on this episode.

I wanted it to be the you know we had James White on and all we talked about was camping because he's he's in that camper right now. We didn't talk about theology or doctrine so I know we've talked about some of that stuff in the past.

We've been on here this episode. I want to be the hunting episode man I want to talk about getting out get in nature seeing the glory of God getting connected with your food. I believe it's probably the purest way to get your food.

You know all these left this crazy hippie liberal whatever's think. Oh killing these poor little animals or you know you're so mean when in fact most of them die of starvation or disease. Anyway we're actually doing them a favor by rightly a harvest on that the Lord has given us dominion over.

But I want to talk about all that stuff and I might get a little techie on you too because I saw the gun in your picture and I'll show the picture here. I want to know kind of what you were using where you were at so let's get into it.

Hunting as a Learned Skill and a Form of Provision

First of all did you grow up hunting or is this something. Yeah so I would say I grew up as a.

Professional hiker with a gun less than a hunter and so I I unlike yourself I live in southern Idaho and so I live in a lot of desert rolling hills Canyon type of area and so that. That's kind of been what my experience of hunting has been around a lot of that stuff.

There's some some mountains and some forest a little bit further down south and a little bit further up north and sometimes I'll find myself going up there but it's probably not nearly as thick as what you're what you're talking about.

But yeah I was raised by a father who went hunting grew up on a farm went hunting. When he was a little one he helped me do my hunter's ed and then we went out pheasant hunting. Didn't get anything. We went out a couple times didn't get anything and and that was about the end of my my hunting experience with my father.

So I was really stoked about it really happy about it. And then on our last on the last show I was on I talked about how I left it the LDS religion and so after leaving that I got really into wanting to do coyote hunting and that just developed into wanting to hunt more and more things and slowly but surely I'm.

Getting more and more proficient at it yeah it is a skill and it is a craft which I think is part of what I want to talk about as well too. Is like as as men we like to hone crafts and skills and I think it's good for us to do so out.

Where you're at is coyote varmint. Can you just shoot him at will. Do you have to have a license or what is it. I believe you. So you just have to have.

Your hunters license if I remember correctly but it is as many as you want any time of the year that you want. In fact I like don't take this advice from me but I'm assuming even if the law was for you to have a hunting license if you shot a coyote out here they probably wouldn't say anything to you.

That's kind.

Of how it is in Michigan. Visible. Yeah they're everywhere man as soon as I feel dress a deer and flop all those insides out you'll go back the next day. And it's like it wasn't even there. The blood off the leaves will be licked up.

I mean they get to him quick. I remember four or five years ago I was up and it was our first time. I don't longer than that. Geez eight years ago when I first got the property and my brother shot one right at dusk about 525.

So we're tracking it not very far but it's getting dark now. So we do we pull everything out out there. Heck we're not carrying in an extra 80 90 pounds dragging that in you know at night. And I'm telling you as we're as we're cutting it open you can just hear him in the you know in the dark probably 20 30 feet feet away.

Oh yeah they're waiting. They just knew you know and that was our first experience to go. And okay they're everywhere up here. Yeah but I got a neighbor who has a natural spring and he has a right next door and he has a spring like a like a water company.

I think Nestle wants to buy it off him for like millions of dollars and he's like nope not selling out but does his own little family thing bottles his own water. Super cheap. Just put the money in the you know in the little lock box and grab how many every gallons you want.

He's got a little like hangout shed with a bathroom in it. It's heated and he's like just come up anytime. Man we'll just sit right in the heated shed and eat jerky all night. Just shoot coyotes all night and so I'm gonna go up there this year.

I'm gonna take them up on it. I think I'm just go up there. We'll just hang out all night and shoot coyotes but that's fascinating. Hello. Yes. So you did coyotes. Did you ever did you then get into like later on get into deer hunting or big game or how'd that go.

Yeah. So.

That's really where the hiking with a professional hiker with a gun came in. Because there were several years here. So I I just have unfortunate I don't want to call it luck because we don't necessarily believe in luck right.

But God has not seen it so that I would ever do a controlled hunt. So I have not ever actually drawn anything. So I put in every single year here in Idaho and it seems like everybody else always draws.

And so I've only done general hunts. And in last year was actually my first year harvesting a deer. Okay prior to that it was like six years of not seeing anything. And really it was challenging. It was really really hard.

I saw some does but never ever any bucks to be able to get on public land. And it was there. Were several times that I think my wife included. We were saying why am I doing this. And so it. So like I said this year has been there's been a huge blessing.

Last year was a huge blessing. Last year I got a deer and an antelope. This year I've gotten a bear deer and an antelope and I'm hoping still to be able to go get a cougar and a wolf. Would. I wouldn't eat the wolf of course but try to get a cougar and a wolf by the end of the year.

Wow what kind of bear was it. I was. It was a little black bear. I think she was.

Three or four years old. Yeah okay. Yeah. Bear meats pretty good. Actually people know. I don't know it just says everyone. You know Joe Rogan made like elk meat all popular. And here in Michigan we have a city called Atlanta Michigan.

It's the elk capital of the Midwest. I mean they are everywhere and overpopulated. You could pretty much get a tag on site. And ever since he started talking everyone just I saw I saw as a real estate agent.

I sell property up there to hunters all the time though. They're paying 50 60 70 thousand dollars for like five acres you know. And then they're just hunting public land near there because you have to be in that area to pull a tag you know.

But bear. Man. I've had bear quite a few times. Never got to take a bear yet. So we were talking about offline this year. I was hoping to. But bear meat is is really good. I thought sometimes you got to add a little fat to it and some of the parts you know put a little sausage in there something get a little fat going.

But man's so good. So yeah that's awesome. She got deer bear. What was the other we said. And you're hoping to go.

Yeah I'm hoping to get a cougar. Yep hoping to get a cougar. I've heard. Really I I know somebody that's that's harvested one in the past and said it's absolutely delicious and so why not try it. I've never tried it before.

I would love to do that. And so there's there's some cougar that are supposedly reported in the in a place called the South Hills near near where I live and so try it.

What are you in. Idaho. Idaho. That's right. Oh man. Okay. So I had a buddy that went that paid for a trip to go out with an outfitter for cougar. Yep. And he got one. And he was up in an area where you kind of have some elevation some like foothills and stuff.

Where I mean he said it was it was pretty tough getting it out of there after they treat it and bringing it back. Yep. Because I think they're using dogs. Yeah. Weren't yet. Right. And. But he said it was like an experience.

He's like it's yeah. It's pretty awesome. He actually might have.

Came up really close to where I live at actually because there's a lot of people that do that where they paid this certain outfitters to take him up and that this area is pretty well known for having cougars in this in the spots.

Right. Because they they have outfitters out there with dogs that you just pay a certain amount of money and you can get a cougar. I don't know man I thought.

About doing that but I just can't. I don't know. I mean I guess I did kind of did do it. I went to an outfitter in Alabama. We did a my father-in-law invited me on a duck hunt. Okay. And that was pretty sweet because we just had like ten guys lined up.

You're you know you're three foot four foot down in the water in your box and you got the guy just calling him in. You know he's calling. He's all right. Guys lock it up like and you flip that thing up and you just got ten guys stand up.

I mean it's like Armageddon. Right. These ducks are falling. We took like 85 ducks over four days between the ten of us. I still got some of the some of the meat in the freezer. But. And duck is good.

Like a duck delicious. But that was something I guess. Yeah I did. That was technically an outfitter. And that was just a good time though. It's like it was almost cheating because they knew all the spots they got all the decoys set out.

They got the call. I mean I just showed up with my gun and sat there. Okay you tell me when to pop up and start target shooting. You know that's awesome. I'm jealous that you got.

To do that I the that's one of the the blessings that I have actually experienced last year. So one of the reasons like I would say I was successful this year was last year I had some some really godly men help help me with hunting last year and kind of showed me some of the some of the improvements I needed to make and in my approach and how I was doing things and that greatly benefited me this year.

I I don't think I would have gotten a deer.

Or an antelope this year. So like like what. Like. So what's different between a deer and an antelope. Are they pretty much the same. When you're hunting them kind of make sure you you know the site and they can win pretty easy.

Wind you like is it that kind of stuff with the deer they can still wind you with.

Antelope. The the difference within a deer versus an antelope. Deer like to go and hide in like the chutes in the valleys right. The areas where especially in the desert right. Because everything's super flat and so anywhere there's a little dip in the ground that's where the deer gonna want to go and bed down just so that they're out of the line of sight.

Antelope are a little bit different though. Antelope tend to go into the most open areas the most flat areas that they can see everything because they're. Their eyesight is phenomenal and they're fast right.

And so they want they put themselves in the best opportunity to get away from whatever's coming to chase them. And so where a deer you sometimes you don't know that they're on the other side of the hill because they're in that valley.

So you got to slowly walk over the hill and then they're gonna be down there. They may or may not see you. Antelope will see you a mile away and so and they'll watch you. And and once they once.

You get into a certain range then they'll they'll run away. Yeah and I'm sharing that picture right now. That cool. What what type of what type of rifle.

You're using right there. Yeah so well first of all so I wanted to take all my animals this year with a 357 lever action. That's a that's what I took the the bear with and the deer with this year. But since you cannot like it's really challenging to get close to those antelope just because of how well their eyes are.

I took with me a 300 wind and a nice scope on there and and shot him from 250 to 300 yards and so and that was after. So they spotted me at that that range about 350 is when they spotted me and they when they were crossing in front of me.

They got a little bit closer when they were trying to jet out of there and one just stopped there. It was a doe. That was what my tag.

Was and was it quickly so they were at what about. 250 for you think. Or 300. 250 250 to 300. Yeah it was just right now. Yeah see I got stuff that comes up on me 15 feet away and really state we stand because I'm right on a run and so man just imagining 250 yards I mean heck when I set in my scope at a hundred yards I'm like this is I have to go back and recite in scopes at like 50 yards for my place up there.

So right 250 and you've got a lot more. I mean if you're at 250 every little movement you know could be an inch or two off. Do you really got to be steady with that. So do you do any long-range like range shooting just a kind of practice or at that.

I do. I haven't done a lot yet with that 300.

Wind mag I've taken I have a ar -10 that I I'm a really big fan of. I recently took that scope that was off that gun. I put it on a different gun so that ar -10 doesn't have a scope right now unfortunately but I've shot that gun at a thousand yards before not at any animal of course but just targets and was able to to hear and see the the hit so that was.

That was exciting stuff.

Raiden the sniper on the podcast today far from yards. You should see all my.

Miss I'm only talking about it's like it's like a like a like a like a Kobe.

Bryant highlight. Right. You're only gonna see that. Exactly yeah we don't need to.

Talk about that. I hit all my shots. It's it's wonderful right. But yeah oh you.

Were talking about even having another gentleman help you and kind of train you to to get better. And this is one of those things that I like to talk about because I have some younger guys in my church and even some older guys that haven't experienced hunting.

I know it's not for everyone but at the same time for me. I find so many benefits in every aspect from training really focusing and trying to get better at a craft harvesting my own food. I mean from from field to table probably some of the cleanest food that you can get even when there isn't any.

Even when I have a even when I get skunked I force myself to sit in a blind for four to six hours at a time with no cell phone and it's just me and the Lord man and talk about a time to meditate. Sure you're looking and you're watching but it is just you and God.

And he will clear some stuff up with me real quick when I'm forced to sit there for hours and hours. I'll plan my year in my business kind of year in the homeschool with the family. I'll I'm sitting there and meditating on the word.

I just find the whole experience very cathartic and that's a great word. Yeah cathartic spiritual sounded like Ted Nugent spirit animal in me. You know what I mean though just like the whole thing any guys that don't experience that.

I know it's not for everyone but that that want to have that. I think there's a lot of good biblical things in that and I think we've lost that. I'm here in Michigan in the 80s we had over 1 .2 million licenses applied for annually like in the mid 80s last year 420 ,000 so you're almost down 800 ,000 licenses applied for over 30 years.

That's pretty crazy. There's just less people doing it not wanting to do it. I don't know what the reasons are for. I think maybe some of its social pressure as well too. It's just kind of fallen out of favor.

But man my grandfather and my great grandfather uh that was like hey this is where we're getting most of our meat for the year. When we go up they would take two or three at a time but 150 pounds in the freezer and you grow up on venison or whatever it was.

You know that is what.

You got those statistics are remarkable though. Like just even like because I'm assuming Michigan has had the population grow and so like that's that is. Yes I'm.

In a deer manage. I'm in a deer management unit it's called a DMU where I'm at. I'm kind of you know here's Michigan you get to do the thing I'm I'm up here right. So you can take three with one tag because it's I mean does everywhere up there bucks not so much they kind of hide out.

I'm up against really 50 ,000 acres of public land against my 40 acres or 20 acres of private land but but but it's insane because less hunters you have to realize too there's a whole conservation thing with hunting people who go oh you're big meanie you're you know killing animals.

Well it's like one they're gonna die anyway most of the time by predator disease or starvation so you know when I put one through the heart or lungs and it drops after 10 seconds I'm actually doing it.

You know it's it's a mercy killing at that point but too it gets all out of whack with predators. Hmm I mean it's just it's just in now black bears are that way moose have come across from the UP when Lake Superior froze over about five years ago so we've got this explosion of elk and moose in the Lower Peninsula in Michigan which is really disrupting things.

We've spotted three wolves now and they're all everywhere in the UP but in the Lower Peninsula and those things those things if they're hungry they'll take pets they'll take small children which they did there was one about three years ago where they they found the child.

It was a little too big I think for the single wolf he dragged it away about 200 yards but they found it but he was he was hungry he's like I need something so it's this weird thing where yeah and you know because they've they've up the the license rate exorbitantly because you know government loves taxes and I think it's just between culture falling out of you know favor and then that you got a thing where you got almost 800 ,000 less hunters every year and then the population control just kind of goes goes a little wonky because we got a lot I mean we got a lot of National Forest in Michigan you know it's maybe not quite like Idaho but there's a lot.

Especially in the UP. That is that is unbelievable to hear. So what what kind of. Since you shoot I that just to hear like you could take three with one tag. That is unbelievable to me. So you can. So you could take three does if you wanted.

Sure. They do have a restricted on a combo so there is a restricted where you can only take four four four plus on one side for deer so they don't want you out there taking. You can't take multiple large bucks but dough and then you get extra dope permits for like 10 bucks or like here $10 take as many dope permits.

As you want. Yeah yeah. So here in Idaho you can't shoot a doe with a with a general tag you it has to be a buck here in Idaho and so there's a lot of people that walk away without any any meat ever like several several several seasons in a row so that's that's remarkable to hear that.

So when you're.

Out there hunting. Do you. Do you kind of have those benefits that I was talking about to as a believer as someone who understands that nature reflects the glory of God. Like do you have some of those experiences.

Well to to where you know. Thinking to yourself this is important for me to do. My wife is to the point now to where she knows. Yeah. That's the week I'm up there. Kind of kind of need it. I joke. I joke.

My brother told his wife wouldn't. Kind of when they first got married she was giving him a little bit of a hard time. He goes. Look at. He goes. A hundred years ago I would have went out shot it got it for you prepared it for you.

It goes now I have to go to a store to buy my meat. It's in my DNA I have to do this. You know. He's like I have to it. It's kind of weird. How it's like a visceral thing. Where it's it is. You know being the provider and the person.

You know as a man there is something about that where you really connect with. Kind of how. Probably right after the fall how the created order was you know. Yeah. Absolutely no. And I will. And you would.

See that even like with Genesis 9 with Noah he's told to go out and kill anything and eat it. Like like yeah there's there's one I so there's several things on that right. Like so on being out in nature I think that that's one like while we're not like spiritual lists and saying oh yeah we go out we see God out in the nature.

Like I've talked to some individuals that follow Thor in the past and they're always like oh yeah the nature of this. Okay there there's something to be said about nature for sure. Right. And I think that's why in the book of Job like when when God is speaking to Job out of a whirlwind he refers to nature that magnifies who he is.

He talks about Job tell me tell me where the goat calves on the mountains tell me where the the shoreline comes and meets the beach and all these just really remarkable ways that God.

Describes himself in that text one of my favorite chapters. I think it's what 38.

And Job yeah yep yep 38 to 42 is just remarkable. It's just God hammering the truth down Job's throat and Job can't speak after that and so. And I think that you also see that with with God's creation in Romans 2 right.

That that we can tell that there is a God just by seeing creation. And so we have to also remember like the context of when the Bible is written it's not written when people are having a grocery store down the street from them and a vehicle and so a lot of times when it talks about the the creation it's talking about a lot of the things that we don't typically see.

Right. And so I totally agree with you. It's it's so wonderful to be out and in the wild having yeah just some some one. Well having time of prayer having time of just intentionality and recognizing God's creation is remarkable.

And then I think like the effort like even even when somebody doesn't harvest an animal the effort that somebody put in just magnifies like the sacrifice that individual had to make or did make to try to provide for the family.

Like that that is something.

That I think says a lot about that individual. Yeah. No absolutely. And to your point too. Yeah it's not like we're uh we're sitting here and we're you know Native Americans worshipping creation itself.

It's a reflection of the Creator. Right. The same way that we that we admire a painting and go wow whoever painted that beautiful. I mean that's how I'm looking at it. And I can see that in anything. I mean I just posted a picture on my on Twitter X a few weeks ago and I have this beautiful maple tree in the backyard and it turns up bright fiery red and orange.

Right. And fall. You know I just took a picture of it put it up and I went even in even in after the fall in in the death cycle of sin to where a tree has leaves that has to die and then come back there's God gave us artistic beauty even in that it through his common grace.

I'm going yep it's gonna have to die and in rebirth because of sin and there's death in the world. But I'm even gonna give you a beautiful artistic rendering of this tree. As it dies it becomes these beautiful vibrant colors and you go oh god you're so good to us even those those small things to where the sign of the fall of sin is event is even marked with a beauty in the way he designed it.

You know. And that's a tree in my backyard. You know people might think I'm a little crazy but I'm standing there looking at it's just such a gorgeous gorgeous thing. You know. So you don't have to you don't go out and kill your food to.

You know see the glory of God in nature. That's not what we're saying but that is a very.

All male all male statement though that you just made. I love it because that's exactly how I look at things. That's exactly how I look at things. Like like we look at the beauty of a tree and I'm like man that's so that's so beautiful.

Like to see see it and then fall comes around. I'm like man it looks like death like Christ died on a cursed tree. For me like like I do that all the time. I'm happy to hear that the same rationality goes through your mind.

No absolutely it's.

Biblical and then and then the other thing I would say too which is very proverb ish is working towards a skill. You see this a lot when you hunt here's the thing anyone who hasn't hunted or goes out for a small game big game whatever it is there's a lot of preparation that goes into it if you're good if you're just not shooting from the hip and wounding stuff and I mean you want to be accurate you want to be good.

There's preparation with with scouting and with what weapons you're going to use and where you're gonna be and the times and and how do I take this animal the best way possible. And there's all these things that go into it which I think is good for men as well too.

I we're seeing a generation coming up where a lot of young men don't want to work at any one skill. I saw a what was it a Pew Pew research poll and it said this was three years ago so my it's probably skewed now but it said 85 of those 15 and under which is a younger category but okay now they're not you know late teens 15 and under think that they are going to make their first million from being a social media star.

So 85 eight and a half out of ten kids go oh no I'm gonna I don't really need a real skill or real job. I'm gonna do something online and become an influencer or you know whatever podcast or whatever that whatever it is on social media tick-tock star and I just went how sad is that.

Because it look at I'm not right we're on podcasts we do media stuff. Yeah I'm not saying anything against that. I'm just saying it's such a lost kind of idea to work very hard at something to hone a skill and then get delayed gratification from it for maybe years there was a couple years like three four years in a row and I'm just nothing and you start thinking to yourself like why am I out here what am I doing at least like the fruits of my labor a little bit so I could you know I'd really like to make some jerky here you know some back straps or something and you can get discouraged in it and I think it's it really good at training young men and men of every age to really hone a skill even if you don't have immediate gratification from it and I found that's very beneficial to me as someone who is naturally impatient who naturally wants to see the fruits of my labor right away you know I know that's a weakness in me the Lord's dealing with me and that sanctification is a daily process I'm getting better as I'm getting older but very impatient with that and it's helped me go nope have a goal it might be far off but keep working at it.

You might not see the results today tomorrow or next year but you will eventually have you ever gone through some of that too or heck as a hunter ever had that dry spell and just go oh my gosh what. Oh yeah oh yeah and.

That especially those those years that went by where I just didn't see anything and it was just it was such a morale kick in the hiney in those ways and so like and I think I think that what you just expressed with with something that the Lord is working on you with it I think he's working on that with me as well and I think that that's a pretty common hardship a pretty common process of sanctification in today's generation that like has things instantly at the fingertips right.

And so I think that's where going back on on the how we don't have a we have generations now that are not into wanting to hunt it's because everything is just right there at their fingertips right. I I can do a grocery pickup on my my phone while I drive there I can have my kids in the back watching Bluey right which I love Louie right there in the back watching Louie and then also at the same time I can pull up to the thing and then I don't have tick-tock but I could be on tick-tock right.

And I get instant gratification over and over and over and over again during that whereas hunting it's going out it's having patience it's enjoying God's creation and then hopefully yeah and sometimes it doesn't but then like hopefully you harvest something hopefully you you you take care of the meat properly hopefully you get it to a refrigeration place quickly hopefully you can butcher it hopefully you can then have your wife like so tonight my wife made homemade sourdough bread with deer roast right.

Like I'm sitting there like just so thankful to the Lord that here is my wife who is a homemaker and she is being satisfied in her role for what I was able to be satisfied in my role as a husband to provide for the family and right.