February 28, 2017 Show with Larry Taunton on “The Faith of Christopher Hitchens: The Restless Soul of the World’s Most Notorious Atheist” PLUS Craig Biehl on “The Box: Answering the Faith of Unbelief”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming. This is Chris Arnz and your host of iron sharpens iron wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this final day of February 2017 February 28th.

I have in my studio with me my co-host the Reverend buzz Taylor Hello and we have on our guest today as our guest today for the very first time ever on iron sharpens iron Larry Taunton, he is an author columnist and cultural commentator.

Frequent television and radio guest on CNN CNN International Fox News Al Jazeera America and the BBC columnist for the Atlantic USA Today CNN comm the blaze Founder and executive director of the fixed-point Foundation debater of such high-profile ace atheists as the late Christopher Hitchens Daniel Dennett and Michael Shermer as well as Muslim cleric Zayed Shakir.

He's an organizer and has chaired debates on science religion and ethics at Trinity College, Oxford University The Edinburgh International Festival the Melbourne Town Hall in Melbourne, Australia Princeton University and the Oxford Museum of Natural History.

Today we are discussing his latest book the faith of Christopher Hitchens the restless soul of the world's most notorious notorious atheist and Now it's my honor and privilege to welcome you to iron sharpens iron for the very first time Larry Taunton I'm delighted to be with you.

Yes. I'm delighted to have you on the program and I don't think that I had mentioned this to you previously before the program began but this Subject one of the reasons is it is of great interest to me.

Is that years ago before? Christopher was diagnosed with cancer. He had agreed to debate my dear friend Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega ministries a world-renowned Christian apologist and The theme was to be is Christianity evil or is the New Testament evil?

I believe it was actually the title of the of the debate and Christopher agreed to do the debate. He actually agreed to do it at quite a reduction of the typical honorarium he receives for this kind of a thing and I was taken aback by how pleasant he was with me over the phone very humorous.

Very.

Apologetic to me because I Think it was a couple of months had gone by before he returned my phone call But it was because he was out of the country and I didn't and I didn't realize it and he Was very profusely apologetic that he didn't get back to me, but he agreed to do it and then I actually had posters all printed up for the debate, but then sadly I got a Phone call from his manager or publicist as a as agent Jessica fee Contacted me with the bad news that Christopher had developed and had been diagnosed with Cancer, I think it was esophageal cancer.

Was it not? That's correct. Yes, and so we had to Understandably cancel that debate and David Silverman the president of Madeline Murray O 'Hare's atheistic organization American atheists took Christopher's place on that same topic.

But anyway, uh This book is a very intriguing book. How did you first get to meet? Christopher I'm assuming it had something to do with the debate of your own.

I.

Yes, I met him. We've facilitated many of the high-profile debate. You know when we were, you know, kind of among the first to do that we one of those the Edinburgh in 2008 and I'd not met of him that this would seem particularly personable.

He seemed like a loose cannon and he seemed like someone who Who's needed to be taken down so to and. It's charming, you know several lengthy road trips. He had become a friend and.

Christopher Hitchens’s Upbringing, Atheism, and Family Background

What can you tell us about Christopher's upbringing. Because it is interesting. Some of our listeners may know but many may not know that he has a brother. Who is a Bible-believing born-again evangelical Christian?

Obviously the two went in two very different directions in their life. But to tell us something about Christopher's upbringing in England.

Sure, Christopher was born in 49 and died in 2011 as stated of esophageal cancer. At the age of 15 in 1964 Christopher declared himself an atheist burned his Bible and his brother Peter who's two years younger.

I would do the same thing and both atheists also became Communists and within that to undermine. Excuse me. I'm Westernism and he had been very early on. He was he was Participant in in for Union. He became a journalist variety of public.

He wasn't the sort that evangelicals would just don't read those publications because Christopher wasn't the sort to to be on TV. And it was mostly moving and fairly unchanged with Christopher and he you know, they're fair-haired boy when in 2007 he published great how religion to the challenge that he was just people anytime anywhere and.

And it's then that he he began Really engaging evangelicals and debating them in the Hindu who wanted to debate him or Muslims or or very many Jews. Actually, it was it was Christians and cheaply evangelicals and you're right to say 51 Peter 91 I think it is in the early 90s.

Okay the way you characterize him just a little bit. Peter's not an evangelical. He does not believe in evangelizing quirky. Sort of English twist on his own Christianity his faith in Jesus Christ. I certainly think is very but evangelicals would an interview.

Yeah, I saw that interview and as I mentioned before the program I think that was the most painful interview Eric Pataxas ever conducted. He did not look like he was enjoying himself all that much. It was it was it was like pulling teeth sometimes to get Peter to answer questions.

Position of your of your listeners for a moment because I did not hear any of that. What was what was the the problem with the debate? With the debate, yeah, you said when when Eric no, he was in a debate.

It was an interview an interview.

Okay, Eric Pataxas has a Meeting that he has sometimes in New York City sometimes in Oxford and in England Called Socrates in the city where he interviews all types of people including our guest Larry Taunton, and he had Christopher's brother on who is a Christian Christopher Hitchens brother, right?

Yeah, and It seemed as if you could hardly tell and Larry you could speak more to this with Peter you could hardly tell if Peter is being offended or upset by questions being asked of him because There is very little change in his tone of voice or facial expression or anything like that.

Yeah. Which of collision named a 2016 book of the year. That one that I that I in the book. Relationship the atheist and his relationship. Look now, how did.

Christopher's Parents and family react to his becoming an atheist and of course you said that Peter actually along with Christopher Originally became an atheist and a Marxist as well. How did the family react to that?

Peter says maybe 7th of Christianity. So were themselves about Atheists, but one doesn't get the impression that that Italy, you know. Any kind of strong was the world and went up in I think I mean you can imagine this is written against them World War two he you know, he fought against the the Nazis and of course in the Soviet Union and yet Here were his own children so you can imagine that that the father was none too pleased by that.

Now most of the atheists I have seen who are in the spotlight those who are involved in apologetic interaction with Christians and people of other religions, they all seem to have a Bitterness to them and an anger as does as did Christopher.

Although I've met atheists or self-professed atheists in person who are not intellectuals or authors who are very pleasant people who don't seem to have an axe to grind or don't seem to have any anger or bitters bitterness pent up in them at least that they Wear on their sleeve, but Christopher seemed to be an angry and bitter man With to even describe Christianity in the terms of evil and so on.

What do you think was the the catalyst of this? Pent up bitterness that he had rather than just a Stating plainly that he doesn't believe God exists. There seemed to be more to it than that.

Yeah, I think there are several factors here. One is that Christopher was a showman and. But that I by that I don't mean to suggest that Christopher Wasn't really an atheist or or didn't believe much of what he said, but rather it's more than that played.

And he knew that late to that now could be very different again. I don't mean that you know on stage being atheist and often not be one rather in the issues and then trying to a second Factor is that some of the other new atheists?

People who don't getting Lee he encountered at parts and these were things. Neither of us would disbelief as an authentic one for to to see religion in a much more nuanced way. I mean, he wouldn't want need for instance to assume that he's a genocidal man, you know, I do feel more new on but but Christopher was used to Seeing churches that has for was that I did not find him particularly in belief that he took to be authentic.

Provided in fact, I want to read something that Christopher said about you which is quite impressive. Christopher Hitchens said about my guest today Larry Taunton. If everyone in the United States had the same qualities of loyalty and care and concern for others that Larry Taunton had We'd be living in a much better society than we do.

That is a pretty Touching and moving and remarkable thing for an atheist to say about a Christian apologist.

Well, it was in the might yet for no one, you know to try to trust in our debate. It was going to be taking place either that night or the next night. I can't immediately recall the way he did. I yeah, I can still remember.

How Disarmed I was by how friendly he was with me. And how a polite and respectful he was with me on the phone and I. I can still remember thinking how much he sounded like Richard Burton the The the late British actor of former husband of Elizabeth Taylor at least a couple of times.

But I can still remember when he told me that I had to make most of the arrangements for the debate with his agent Jessica fee Ephesin Frank EE and I can still remember him saying Quite an appropriate name for agent is it not fee?

I can. Yes, exactly I still exist could be very.

And I wanted to read another little plug from another atheist Michael Shermer and Michael Actually on Long Island, New York a couple of years ago debated Christian apologist Frank Turek. And I had the privilege of actually being the moderator for that debate.

But Michael Shermer says of this book this book should be read by every atheist and theist passion about the truth. That's quite an interesting Thing for an atheist to say about this. And Ravi Zacharias who's been on this program says this book will surprise and challenge you and I hope open fruitful conversation among atheists and theists alike.

I'm gonna announce our email address for those of you who would like to join us on the air with a question for Larry Taunton. Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA. And. We have a listener from Randleman, South Carolina Seth Who says Christopher Hitchens was an atheist but also pro-life.

How did he come to that stance given his unbiblical worldview? Was he ever challenged given that stance and I'm assuming he means by fellow atheists. But if you could respond to that.

Yeah, certainly. TAUNTON or you can go to TAUNTON find an exchange. In my debate on this very Sharma, you know accuses me of being against life. And you know your fellow actually stand with me on this particular issue.

Christopher Paul. Christopher never Interestingly claimed to be especially logical belief. That is to say could adhere to an orthodox atheism. And one of the ways that he did as being pro It was very decisive in his thinking on this was that his own mother told him that she had had an abortion.

Both before he was born and after he was born and Christopher hit him as it were with abortions. And it was just a llama. He it made it very real for him that she might very well have decided to have aborted him.

Wow. That just for some reason reminded me of Jack Nicholson who I heard was pro-life. Because he was raised by his sister his whole life and was under the impression that his sister was his mother and didn't even find out until he was an adult that his.

The woman that he thought was his mother was his sister and he was pro-life because apparently his mother was considering aborting him. But the One of the things that I wanted to know if you ever asked Christopher and I'm assuming you did because of your Debates with him and also cordial friendly conversations with him.

How did he answer the question as to? The determination of evil. In the mind of an atheist when there really is no logical basis for a for an atheist Or even an agnostic for that matter to determine for anyone else what evil and what good is.

When they believe that we have just evolved from pond scum we're just walking bags of protoplasm, basically. And Why would it not be a very legitimate action? For one group of humans who believe in survival of the fittest to murder another group or what have you?

Did he ever answer the question about the no?

No, at least not not to my knowledge. Not it's certainly not a fight that I saw him an amusing Storm, you know that that Frank said to him what is? You know, what is the origin of evil in your worldview audience.

Very witty comment. But of course, it wasn't an actual answer. I Didn't it didn't really address the the issue of was a to you. What you've just said is true. He would he would probably admit to you that at the end of the day that that strictly speaking within an atheistic Universe and what is attractive to many to become a theist in the first place?

Actually You know very famously Said that the reason he Wanted to be an atheist is because it liberated him both politically and sexually to do whatever it was that he wanted to do. Hmm, you know and very similar to that.

I asked him, you know, why did you choose to be an atheist? He said well, you know. This is the sort of thing that and we have to go to a break right now.

If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Please at least give us your first name city and state and country of residence. And I want to thank Seth and Randlesman, North Carolina.

You have won a free copy of the book the faith of Christopher Hitchens By our guest Subtitled the restless soul of the world's most notorious atheist. So, please make sure you give us your full mailing address and we'll get that out to you.

Compliments of Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CV as in Cumberland Valley BBS as in Bible book service comm. Don't go away. We will be right back with Larry Alex Taunton. Hi, I'm Chris Arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio.

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Everyone needs a pastor. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnsett. If you just tuned us in our guest for the first hour is Larry Alex Taunton the author of the faith of Christopher Hitchens the restless soul of the world's most notorious atheist and my co-host Reverend buzz.

Taylor just had a quick question about you your Involvement if any with Doug Wilson who also debated Christopher Hitchens. Buzz. Yeah. Well, yeah, I.

Don't I'm not really familiar with Christopher Hitchens and I remember a few years ago seeing that Doug Wilson was Touring and debating an atheist and I was wondering that was definitely Christopher Hitchens.

It was okay. That's what I wanted to find out because I see that Doug Wilson is mentioned on the back of the book.

Okay, and Larry, what do you know? If Doug had developed a as close a relationship with Christopher as you had.

We've never spoken. Oh and Before the book was published I'd had no interactions with With Doug not he was writing the review for Christianity today of my book is because I knew That Doug had had a relationship that was similar to my own just heat praise on this book and began his own review by saying You know, I I was and he said, you know.

At the end I concluded that with the same Christopher Hitchens and debated the same Christopher Hitchens that I had. And I found that very I kind of wondered to myself, you know, did I see a signs of this man?

They did I just somehow with him, too. I I found to be you know. Interaction the the paperback next week or excuse me and the the book forward to this book is written by Doug Wilson.

Oh great. We have a listener in Slovenia Joe. Who says? Christopher Hitchens is quoted as saying what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence since Christianity. Since Christianity is Thoroughly a historical faith that can be verified or Invalidated by examining the historical evidence or lack thereof for the claims that it makes.

How would Christopher have applied this quote to Christianity?

It was that was one of Christopher's nice little rhetorical flourishes that gets lots of applause and it's certainly very witty. But he often didn't didn't go to the next day. He was awfully clerical claims of the Christian faith.

Um, you often find with many of the new atheists I see this as somebody who's engaged for Hitchens or Michael Schermer or Dan Dennett or or views on these things and what you all. And.

We have a listener in Mastic Beach, Long Island, New York Tyler who says. Was Christopher Hitchens part of the new atheists that you keep mentioning? Such as men like Richard Dawkins. Well, perhaps you could take this time to differentiate.

What would be different about Christopher Hitchens than these other men that are known to be new new atheists?

Fairly evangelical in their atheism, that's the world view. They're not chiefly to the so-called four horsemen. They refer to them. That would be Daniel Bennett, but there's a a one Dan Barker Seeking to Encouraging deconversion really Christian the way these guys.

There certainly isn't. Rather and by the way, thank you both.

Joan, Slovenia and Tyler and Mastic Beach, Long Island, New York. You're also both getting a free copy of the faith of Christopher Hitchens the restless soul of the world's most notorious. Well, I keep saying notorious.

Because of the word notorious and atheist being next to each other. Roulette the restless soul of the world's most notorious atheist and that is compliments of Nelson books and we thank them for providing these books and also they will be shipped to you by Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service CV for Cumberland Valley BBS for Bible book service comm.

In fact. The the title as you well know Larry may Mislead people before they read the book. In thinking that you have written a book about a conversion experience of Christopher to Christianity or at least theism.

But that is not the case at all. What do you mean by the faith of Christopher Hitchens? Well.

To be misleading.

And I didn't I didn't mean to imply that you were intentionally.

That certainly is an accusation that who loves to crash the Amazon web page and you know. Give it one second read it and it I do mean terrified atheists from Pasadena, California like Michael Shermer all the book and in in places like the New Yorker where Lawrence Krauss another one of the the new atheists and Atheists that it is only really if you read their characterization of my books.

We immediately know that that's not true. These are general and that may be fake news on the gospel or it might be fake. But I'm getting at here is that everybody is putting up markets of in Bernie Sanders or their 401k their faith in a relationship.

One hopes it is in Jesus Christ, but these are individuals who are gambling their faith is that there is no. So what I'm getting at with that title is what was Christopher Lee in? You know without giving away too much from the book I'll simply say that the if you're looking for the key that unlocks him The tumblers don't line up with the atheist key and that's that you would assume to find him and it wasn't.

As if you spent any time with him you began to realize this was finding.

Now perhaps you could Be more clear as far as a foggy memory I have. About something that Christopher said When he after he was diagnosed with cancer, I seem to recall him giving a Friendly Rose, excuse me.

Well that that actually is quite close to what I thought that I remembered. What I was thinking of more in terms of. That that don't believe anything you hear about me converting because it may have something to do with medication or anesthesia or something.

But yeah, yeah.

Very very.

Christopher. Christopher seemed to be not for the part that he converted for. Hitchens might say something that gave the impression that he.

Did he ever Explain like for instance, I have even heard Bill Maher Notorious agnostic who many people identify as an atheist. I heard Bill Maher At one point. I don't know if he's changed his opinion and become even more clearly in a state of unbelief but he at one point hurt.

I heard him say that he Identifies himself as an agnostic because to claim to be an atheist would mean that you're claiming you have all knowledge and. Did Christopher ever see that that was a dilemma for him to call himself an atheist?

How could he possibly know for certain that God does not exist unless he had all knowledge?

You know would say that he thinks there's about For so I think Christopher, you know, there's an interest there might be in it doesn't believe that anyone You know really is not a very right when you begin speaking of Things so Christopher.

Christopher, you know often that he wasn't near against the idea of God's and and hence was You know, at least it in part making his living. Now, would you agree?

Sometimes sometimes I am uncomfortable as an evangelical Christian sometimes I am uncomfortable with Fellow Conservatives and perhaps even fellow Christians. Who want to? make the case for the beauty of religion and the beauty of Pure and simple theism apart from Christianity.

And I have a I have a problem with that because although I could not say that religion is the root of all evil as Christopher might claim I believe that all other Religions do lead to evil other than the one true religion that is taught in the scriptures as being the religion of Jesus Christ and and faith in him and him being the God man who paid the penalty for the sins of his people on Calvary and turned away the wrath of his father away from us and Rose again, and it ascended and is seated at the right hand of the father.

That religion I believe is the only true religion. And I think that sometimes people go overboard trying to defend religion and theism in general. Whereas the atheists on some points of have valid points when it comes to the evil of religion.

If you could comment on that.

Yeah, well, you know my religion. I agree with the new atheist. Listen. I'm an every religion see that. You know that a mother true one. There is a real one people see in general. And well, I know that you could only be on with us for the first hour.

And I do want to make sure our listeners have your websites. Larry Alex Taunton calm is one Larry Alex ta you and Ton is one. And you also have fixed dash point org. That's fixed dash point org. Any other contact information you cater share.

Well, it's been a joy to talk to you Larry and I definitely want to have you back on the program and.

Frequently if your schedule permits and if you're interested because it was a joy to interview you.

Well, thank you so much. Listen gentlemen, you have a good day.

You too Larry and don't go away folks because we have for the second hour something that does relate to our first discussion. For the second hour of the program. We have Craig Beal. Dr Craig Beal is going to be joining us any moment.

God willing he is the founder of pilgrim rock a ministry which develops courses and other material to boost the believers joy comfort and faith in Christ and Scripture and to nurture in believers and their children a God honoring an intellectually defensible worldview that can survive and thrive in the face of sophisticated attacks of unbelief.

So he's going to be joining us after the break God willing to discuss his book the box answering the faith of unbelief. If you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away. We will be right back after these messages with. Dr. Craig Beal and answering the faith of unbelief. I am Chris Arnzen host of iron sharpens. Iron radio here to tell you about an exciting offer from world magazine.

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Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said give yourself unto reading. The man who never reads will never be read. He who never quotes will never be quoted. He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves.

He has no brains of his own. You need to read.

Solid ground Christian books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of preachers to heart. The mission of solid ground Christian books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and future and To publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001 Solid ground has been committed to publish God-centered Christ exalting books for all ages. We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid ground books .com That's solid-ground-books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past or present You can unearth from solid ground.