F4F | Che Ahn Explains Who The Apostles Are

Welcome to another installment of Fighting for the Faith here on YouTube. If you've listened to Michael Brown and talk about, well, the so-called NAR, as if somehow the NAR is a figment of the imagination of, well, conspiracy wingnuts and types like that, consider this installment of Fighting for the Faith an ongoing example of, well, stuff that we keep finding on the internet that just seems to say, well, you know, maybe, just maybe that NAR is for real.

And the reason I say maybe, just maybe that NAR is for real is because it is. And so what we're going to do here is we're going to go back in time to the year 2010 when Cheyenne traveled over to the United Kingdom and was the guest of Trevor Baker of Revival Fires at a conference that they were holding there, and did a little four-minute interview, and it ended up on the Revival Fires YouTube channel, and it's titled, Who Are the Apostles?

And we're going to note that at this time, you know, back in 2010, Cheyenne was talking quite openly about the restoration of apostles. We'll talk about that. We'll talk about marketplace apostles taking, getting to the top of different cultural mountains, taking dominion over them, and once they get there, they can decree and declare stuff.

Yeah, this is a short little interview, but quite the thing. I'd love to find out what Michael Brown thinks of what Cheyenne says in this thing, but I seriously doubt he'll even give it the time of day.

But let's go ahead and get the desktop up and running, and let's listen in as Trevor Baker and Cheyenne discuss.

The Re-emergence of Apostles in the New Apostolic Reformation

Who Are the Apostles? Here we go. You've been here at the conference, Aligning Ourselves with the Kingdom, or Kingdom Alignment, as we call the conference.

I love the title, by the way. That's a great title for a conference.

And it's just some of those things of how the church at this moment can align with heaven. We hear lots of teachings about how the church at this moment can align with heaven. Okay. Your kingdom come on earth as it is in heaven, and some of the things you've been talking about in terms of, you know, we've had whole lots of teaching on the prophetic, and now there's this re-emergence of the apostolic.

Now, I'm going to point that out. That might seem like a minor.

Detail, but there's nothing minor about it. In fact, that's quite an important detail. Notice he talked about the re-emergence of the apostolic. Now, Michael Brown, one of the reasons why he talks about why, well, there's always been apostles, and I mean by apostles, small a apostles.

The reason he's saying that is because he knows just how duplicitous it would be to say that, well, apostles disappeared and then re-emerged, because that means that the church has been literally for almost 2 ,000 years, 1 ,900 years to be exact, been without any living apostles until they've just recently re-emerged.

And so the NAR teaches the re-emergence, the restoration of apostles, and not little a apostles, big a apostles. We've covered this on previous installments of Fighting for the Faith. So yeah, you're going to note that Trevor Baker had no problem talking about the re-emergence of apostles.

That's kind of an important thing, and back then, Cheyenne didn't even blink an eyelash at it. He totally agreed. Let me back this up just a little.

Bit and listen in. You know, we've had lots of teaching on the prophetic, and now there's this re-emergence of the apostolic. And just talk to us about that, Chey, with regard to kingdom alignment and where the apostolic fits into that.

Well, I love the word alignment.

Where does the apostolic fit into alignment with the heavenlies, you know?

There's a scriptural term, and the Greek word is katatismos, which you see in Ephesians 4 .11, but it's in the context that when he ascended, he gave some to be apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers to equip the saints for the work of ministry.

That word equipped there.

Is alignment. It's allowing the saints. Yeah, now that's not exactly correct. Let's take a look at it, and it's Ephesians chapter 4. I'll start at verse 11. This is the standard text for now the people who are five-folders.

Michael Brown, he's not N .A .R. He's a five-folder. He believes that there have always been apostles, but Cheyenne and Trevor Baker, there's been a re-emergence of apostles, and I mean this. I want you to consider the implications.

The five-folders say, well, the church has always needed apostles, but the N .A .R. guys like Cheyenne say, no, no, no, the apostles recently re-emerged, which means that for 1900 years, the church has been unable to properly equip the saints.

So the word in question is how in the ESV gets translated as equipped. So he gave the apostles, the prophets, evangelists, and shepherds and teachers to equip, and katartismos is the Greek word, and let's go ahead and pull it up in BDAG, and boy is that small.

I'm going to make that a little bit bigger. Now, important thing, definitions of a word are based upon the context. So many words have multiple definitions, and the context will tell you what the word means.

Always, and again, I go to the word up because it's kind of simple. If I were to say somebody threw up, up in that sentence means one thing, but if I said somebody went up the escalator, well, up in that sense means something different than throwing up.

You get the idea. The context will tell you what definition is appropriate. So katartismos is the Greek word, and it's a classical Greek word, by the way. This comes from classical Greek, and it means the setting of a bone historically.

Okay, so if you broke a bone, you would katartismos it, which is not exactly the right way of putting it because this is actually a noun, but it's not a verb, but you'd get the idea. And so in this sense, then, what's being discussed is the second understanding, the equipping or equipment or equipping, and this falls under the idea of training or discipline to equip God's people for service.

That's what it means, although historically, in classical Greek, it meant the setting of a bone. Now, all of that being said, then, you know, what Sheon is engaging in is classic charismatic wordplay where he's blurring definitions, and so this does not mean, by the way, alignment.

It literally means equipping. That's what's going on, and in this particular case, I want to see something here, masculine singular accusative. Yeah, no, that's just the noun form. Okay, so you get the idea of what's going on here, and so he's going to be engaging in wordplay, and so since it means the setting of a bone, it means alignment.

No, it doesn't, and he's, you know, engaging in some weird wordplay, but we go on.

And it's a medical term that simply means to set a broken bone into place, so something that's out of alignment, you set it so that it could heal properly. No, that may have been how it was.

Originally used in classical Greek, but that's not how it was used in Koine, and especially in.

This context, it has to do with equipping, not aligning. Stronger, and so I really feel this is a prophetic word for the church because a lot of us are talking about kingdom assignment. Okay, the seven mountains of culture, what do you call to, how can you take the arts and entertainment mountain, or the media mountain, or the government mountain?

Yeah, how do you take the media mountain,.

The government? Notice he said take. This is classic NAR dominionist talk and strategy.

But I feel what's more important first is alignment before the assignment, because what we have to do is recognize who are the ones who really are the called as apostles.

To those various mountains. So apparently apostles are called to those various mountains.

To quote-unquote. Take them. That's what he said. As far as spiritual authority goes, the Bible says in 1 Corinthians chapter 12, 28, it's first apostles, second prophets, third teachers. And in my observation, the ones that are really bringing about transformation in society are people who are the marketplace apostles, marketplace prophets.

Okay, marketplace apostles, and notice.

He's talking about transforming society. This is much different than making disciples, very different altogether. And apparently there's this new category with the reemergence, as Trevor Baker talked about it, the reemergence of apostles which have been gone for 1900 years.

With the reemergence of the apostles, now there's a new type of apostle, the marketplace apostle, mm-hmm, which is nowhere spoken of anywhere in Scripture. That's the invention of C. Peter.

Wagner. Just a nuclear church. Obviously, the religion mountain, you have the nuclear church apostle. Nuclear church apostle. But when you begin to realize the business people who are really making a lot of money are marketplace apostles, and they are just, God's given them tremendous authority, or the government mountain.

I just had the privilege of meeting with the president of Korea, South Korea, and he is an apostle on the government mountain. He was a.

Former... South Korean president is an apostle on the government mountain. Who knew? CEO of Hyundai.

Motor Cars, and it would be like the CEO of Mercedes Benz, or is the number one car for Korea. He rose from the very bottom to the very top, and then he became mayor of Seoul. When he became mayor of Seoul, he dedicated the city to Jesus Christ, and he got a lot.

Of criticism by the Buddha. How do you dedicate a city to Jesus? What does that mean exactly? Do you give Jesus the key to the city? Does that mean everybody there is now Christian?

What does that mean? This is my faith, and I did what I did, and I'm not going to take it back. When you get to the top, you can start doing some radical things for the Lord.

If you get to the top, take that mountain, then you can do some radical things for the Lord. The Bible says no biblical text anywhere. Where is he getting this? Again, this is classic NAR dominionism, which of course Michael Brown even denies exists, but it's right here.

It's strange that I could find examples like this of the thing that he says doesn't exist.

The problem is that, unfortunately, many of us are not at the top.

Yeah, see if you're not at the top, you can't do those radical things, so you got to take those mountains. You got to get to the top, so then you can do the radical stuff.

As a marketplace apostle, apparently. And so Deuteronomy 28, 13 says we're to be the head and not the tail, but unfortunately, many of us are just behind, and so if we share something...

So if you're not the head, you're doing it wrong. If you're the tail, whoa, yeah, you've got things really backwards. Talk about a twisting of Deuteronomy 28.

About something concerning a Christian value. We get persecuted because we're not at the head.

So the reason why Christians get persecuted is because they haven't taken the mountain, and so they're not at the head. They're still in the tails, and that's why they get persecuted. Wow, that's absurd.

To the head, then all of a sudden we can make decrees and declarations, and we can shift.

And influence that whole mountain. Hang on, I got to back that up. Yeah, so what's the point of getting to the top? Well, there's certain things you could do at the top you can't do when you're.

Not at the top. Listen to him again. But unfortunately, many of us are just behind, and so if we share something concerning a Christian value, we get persecuted because we're not at the head. But once we do get to the head, then all of a sudden we can make decrees and declarations, and we can shift and influence that whole mountain.

Yeah, see, you.

Can't make decrees and declarations unless you actually get to the top of that particular mountain. You have the seven mountains of culture. Once you get to the top of it, whoa, man, then you can do, like, I decree and declare, and no biblical text teaches that.

This is straight up mythology. And wow, and not only is it mythology, this is the kind of stuff that Michael Brown says doesn't exist. Huh, weird. We always seem to stumble on these things that Michael Brown says just aren't there.

But then again, I mean, clearly I've got to be some kind of weird wingnut conspiracy theorist, because I actually believe the New Apostolic Reformation's a thing, because it is. Anyway, yeah, you get the idea.

Seven Mountains Dominionism and Marketplace Apostles

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