The Regime Tightens Its Control, A Review of Dr. Gagnon's Soteriology Posts on Facebook

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00:34

Greetings and welcome to The Dividing Line. I just saw this video a little while ago, so I suppose...

00:42

Oh goodness. Let's, um... On my screen right now is, uh, is the

00:49

Resident -in -Chief. And if you can see it, the, uh, the look on...

00:58

The look on the face of the guy in the background is Is that what he's getting in his ear right now is,

01:04

Wait, you let him wander off again?! That... But, this is, this is

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Biden unscripted. I want you to... The, the, the, the reporter asks him,

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What is your message to platforms like Facebook? Now... About what?

01:27

I mean, that's a pretty vague question. Is this about censorship?

01:34

Is this about... what? Listen, listen to what, what happened.

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This is today, as far as I understand. This is, this was this morning. What's your message to platforms like Facebook?

01:49

They're killing people. I mean, it really... Look, the only pandemic we have is among the unvaccinated.

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And that's, and they're killing people. They're killing people.

02:07

The only pandemic we have is amongst the unvaccinated. They're killing people.

02:14

So, I, I, um... If I were asked about Facebook, that, yeah, that's the first thing that would cross my mind, is they're killing people.

02:27

What happened there, I'm afraid, is... Here, uh, this, this will explain this.

02:35

Come on. This, this will explain this. This is, now,

02:41

I thought the chick who was the former head of Planned Parenthood was the director of the

02:49

CDC. Maybe it's a, maybe there's different office or position or something. I don't know. But this is

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Rochelle Walensky. It says CDC director. This is becoming a pandemic of the unvaccinated.

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So, I think what happened is Biden was fed his talking points, and then somebody asked him a question, and one of those talking points, it had nothing to do with the question was asked, just came tumbling out because that's what he had just been told to say.

03:22

Yeah, and it just... No, I'm serious. I mean, look at it. I already had, I had this queued up to talk about this before Biden did what he did, or at least before I saw the video.

03:36

I guess I can't prove that I had it before that, but I think this was from yesterday.

03:43

I think I, I clipped this. Yeah, I clipped, clipped this last night. So, here's the new talking point, and in fact,

03:52

I can prove it. Ha ha! I tweeted about it last night. I tweeted about it last night, and I talked about how

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I sort of, you know, for quite a while now, I'd say at least two months, you know,

04:07

I've been saying to myself, I've probably said here, I commented, it's like, well, you know,

04:15

Florida's open, and Texas is open, and California is supposed to be doing its thing, even though it's locking back down, and, and, you know, people are so like, okay, we're getting past all this.

04:27

And I'm like, no, we're not. No, we're not. This was never about a virus, so we're not going to get past it, because it is about fundamentally changing the entire globe.

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It's, it's about, it's about the fact that the global elites who have gotten together, so, corporations, big tech, have gotten together with governments across the globe to fundamentally change things.

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The Great Reset. And they're open about it. You can call it a conspiracy if you want, but if you publish books about it and use that in your title, it's not much of a conspiracy.

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It's pretty, pretty much straight out there, and you ignore it at your own risk. But it's, they've, they've, they're doing all this, and they're not going to let go of the power that that has given them to, to just completely, these, these people no longer feel that any of the constitutional systems in their nations have any restraint upon them at all.

05:41

This is an emergency, and so we can do whatever we want, and the Constitution be hanged. They don't care.

05:47

This new regime that has come in, every day, we see evidence that they are just simply ignoring the

05:55

Constitution and doing whatever they want to do. And we point on this program, you say, but, but why should you care about this?

06:03

We put on this program because it was the Christian worldview that made that Constitution work.

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It is an understanding that there are transcendent values and truths that remain transcendent long after we're gone.

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That's why, that's why our troops stormed Normandy, because they believed that what they would die for there would then be passed on to their children and their children's children.

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And so this is, this is as theological as it can, as it can be.

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It is amazing how many Christians think you can put a bunch of God -hating sinners together, give them a bunch of power, and they're going to be neutral.

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They're going to be neutral. They're going to always do the right thing. They're going to follow the rules.

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Really? Grow up. Recognize that when you put a bunch of sinners together who hate

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God and give them a bunch of power, the result is not going to be good. So, I've been looking around going, well, you know, people are planning on going on vacations, this, that, and the other thing, and all of us want that.

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All of us want that. But that doesn't serve their purposes. These global elites have made it very plain.

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They've published this. There can't be more than three billion people on this planet from their perspective.

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Three billion. There's between seven and eight now. So, there needs to be a drastic crash in reproduction.

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And so, they're going to do everything they can to bring that about. And the first step is you have to make everyone dependent upon the government.

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Once they're dependent upon the government, then they can't have children. China proved that. And then the only way, the problem is

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China has realized, wait a minute, if we only allow one kid, we're going to eventually be outproduced by everybody else.

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And so, now they're allowing two or three. And so, the global elites are like, okay, all right, we need all the nations of the world to contract at pretty much the same rate so that we can, we need, we need globalism.

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We need an absolute global totalitarianism to make this work. And they're doing it right in front of our eyes.

08:40

They're doing it right in front of our eyes. Here, so, the point being, this is becoming a pandemic of the unvaccinated.

08:47

So, when you point to breakthroughs on the vaccines, when you point to the fact that the

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UK is having a huge spike and the UK is 80 % vaccinated, well, that's expected.

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It's still just the unvaccinated. I wish we could trust almost any numbers anymore, but the fact is that these people will say or do absolutely positively anything.

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Remember Pravda? No, no one remembers Pravda. But communism has no moral foundation when it comes to lying.

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And so, everybody knows that they would talk about how food production was up here and food and auto production was up there and everybody knew it was a blatant lie, but it was just, it's what the state does.

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Big Brother couldn't tell the truth if his life depended on it. And that's what we're looking at now.

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And so, I've been saying, like I said, for about two months, they're going to start blaming anyone who has not joined the

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Global Genetic Experimentation Club for any future variants, everything.

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Now, the science behind that's laughable. And so, they won't put anybody out there to actually argue that point.

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They own the media. Eventually, people like Tucker Carlson will be disappeared.

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You know it's going to happen and it may just be disappeared. I mean, after he went after the

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Joint Chiefs of Staff last night, it just may be SEAL Team 6 disappeared, you know. Tucker Carlson's house was found riddled with bullets and no bodies were found and there were no witnesses.

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We're getting to that point, third world tin horn dictatorship type stuff. But they own the media.

10:51

So, the media will do whatever they are told. So, the media is being told right now, if anyone questions the new narrative about the insurrection of January 6th, where there were no plans and no guns and no bombs and only they got killed, but it was an insurrection, even though they couldn't have done anything.

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But it's an insurrection and it's the greatest attack on this nation since the

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Civil War, which makes anyone who knows anything about the Civil War and what happened on January 6th sit there and go, you've got the

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IQ of a wet shoelace. What are you talking about? But again, remember, we go all the way back.

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Incoherence, lies, hypocrisy, that's the mechanism that communism uses to break people down.

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And so we're just getting hit with it every single day and we keep sitting here expecting truthfulness and you don't get it.

11:52

But here's the scary part. Here's the scary part. What?

12:01

Yeah, sorry. Here's the scary part. I bet you haven't seen this. I guess on the last program,

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I bugged you by playing creepy stuff. And so I'm creeping you out again, aren't I? Yeah, I know.

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I know. Sorry. This is from New Zealand. Now, I've mentioned the fact that years ago, we were sitting in somebody's backyard.

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Beautiful day in Australia. And we've got some Kiwis with us, people from New Zealand.

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And they've come over for a Bible conference. This is years ago. This is one of the first times I went down there. And one of the

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Kiwis says, what's with it? What is it about you American Christians and your guns?

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And I at first sort of laughed it off, but he was serious. And so I said, well, you need to understand our

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Second Amendment was put there as a limitation upon the government, as a means for the citizenry to put a limitation on the government and the government's powers.

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And he says, it sounds like you don't trust your government. And I said, not as far as I can throw it. And he says,

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I just don't understand that. And I just looked at him. I don't understand how you can trust any government given history.

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So it really seems like for a long time, there's been something in the water in New Zealand that has made folks go, oh, yeah, sure.

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Our government just loves us and just wants what's good for us. So here's the

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Kiwis. I want you to listen to this woman. I want you to hear what she says. And see what is necessary in her world view for her to say the words that she's saying.

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We will share with you the most up -to -date information daily. You can trust us as a source of that information.

14:09

You can also trust the director general of health and the ministry of health. For that information, do feel free to visit at any time to clarify any rumor you may hear.

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covid19 .govt .nz Otherwise dismiss anything else.

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We will continue to be your single source of truth. We will provide information frequently.

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We will share everything we can. Everything you are, else you see. A grain of salt.

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And so I really ask people to focus on that. What's the greatest example of that appears to be this text which originated in Malaysia and has kind of has become a viral hoax in Australia and in New Zealand.

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How irresponsible is it the people that are sharing that news of a lockdown imminent in New Zealand? Yeah, and look that's the kind of thing that adds to the anxiety that people feel.

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So I continue to share the message New Zealanders must prepare. But do not panic.

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Prepare. And when you see those messages, remember that unless you hear it from us it is not the truth.

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And I really ask people just visit covid19 .govt .nz

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It has all of the up -to -date information and we will continue to provide everything you need to know.

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Just just trust us. We are your only source of we define truth.

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We are truth. We were born bubbling truth because we are your government.

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And you just need to trust us. Don't listen to anybody else. Just trust us. We control the horizontal and the vertical.

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Yes. Do not adjust your set. It's true. Did you notice the guy standing?

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We laugh but this is actually happening. Do you notice the guy standing behind there? He just keeps nodding. Uh -huh.

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Uh -huh. Uh -huh. Uh -huh. I'm getting paid good. Yep. I'm very serious. We're very serious.

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We're very serious. Uh -huh. Yeah. I mean this Orwell would just be sitting there going

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Why did you all take my book and make it the manual? I I that's not that wasn't my intention, but you did and this is what you get.

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We are your only source of truth anything else. You just need to reject it.

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Now the funny thing is I see this and they're saying oh, there's no no, no, no lockdown and then

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I was just watch looking at twitter and there's video in Australia Of people protesting because New lockdowns, but but but they just but they just said yeah

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Yes, I do yes, I I'm aware that Los Angeles County has re -established

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Masking requirements indoors including for vaccinated people now again

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Scientifically medically, okay, you heard also um

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About the regime Jen Psaki who really is

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Like it's like she was specifically chosen to be the face of the new american communism.

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It's just like wow Uh, you could see her with the hammer and sickle and and the whole nine yards going on um

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And because you know every word coming out of her mouth is a lie. It's just but she can just do it. So well um literally talking with carriers verizon at &t our carriers

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To scan SMS text messages, that's your text message, you know when you get your phone out

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And you know in our in our family In our family uh, my daughter

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Recently sent a I think it was a tiktok video or something of this young lady talking about her

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Text message experience with her mom and how She gets these incredibly random text messages

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That have really nothing to do with what's going on in reality, but she gets them And someone was saying now

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I feel understood Because my wife tends to use the voice stuff

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And so very frequently What comes across is incredibly humorous just today uh, she text messaged

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I think me or the family one of the two and we were talking about an old pastor friend of ours she saw today first time in years and He's coming out to the phoenix area in september and wants to visit apologia church

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Let me see Let me see if I can find it. Let me see here um

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Yes, uh if it works out for them to be in town on sunday they probably try to go to pyology p -i -e o -l -o -g -y

19:31

Pyology Well, I can figure that out Apologia pyology yeah, you know voice recognition stuff, but This happens all the time it does so those messages

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Could you stop on the way home and pick up a gallon of milk and a dozen eggs those messages

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That we send back and forth constantly The regime wants your carriers

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To start scanning them for the regime for the presence of Misinformation Misinformation we all know what misinformation means, right?

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Do you know what misinformation means Misinformation is thought crime.

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It's thought crime And we've talked about this for so long that that most of us just cannot believe.

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Yes, we're here this regime Wants to use our phones

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To check us for thought crime not thinking

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The way you're supposed to think Not having the governmentally approved viewpoints and opinions

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That's where we are So if you think That there were irregularities in the 2020 election

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That's misinformation i .e thought crime And you should lose your job.

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You should lose opportunity for education And they have further plans beyond that down the road

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You have to recognize that This isn't this isn't Conspiracy theories look here

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Here let let you don't you don't believe me Watch for yourself

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Providing for for facebook or other platforms to measure and publicly share the impact of misinformation on their platform

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And the audience it's reaching Also with the public with all of you To create robust enforcement strategies that bridge their properties and provide transparency about rules

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You shouldn't be banned from one platform and not others if you for providing misinformation out there

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You should not be banned from one platform and not others for posting misinformation

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You do know what that means, right? What it means is you should be banned from all of them

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For posting misinformation You should be silenced from uttering even a thought other than what

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Jen Psaki's bosses determine you should think And this isn't a worldview issue, right

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You you christians out there who are sitting there going well just get back to the bible Um what the bible says

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Is misinformation? It is thought crime

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It says boys are boys and girls are girls It says marriage between a man a woman

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It's all sorts of bad And so if the regime

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Is going to scan your text messages for misinformation Maybe this throwing pastors in jail was just simply let's see how they respond to this

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Well, how did we respond? Most of us sat back and said they deserved it So what do you think their next step is going to be?

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Yeah I mean Did she not just say that? I I don't have the ability to create deep fakes.

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So I don't I don't have that kind of stuff that that's that's the regime speaking

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And the regime is saying yeah, you should If you share misinformation You should be banned from all platforms and we need rules establishing this so Anything that the regime

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Doesn't like silenced. They're already doing it That the information has already come out that during the last campaign

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They were working with google and facebook to suppress stories

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Against what is now the regime? Don't expect consistency from these people.

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I mean Consistency the truth expect them to be consistently untruthful But that's where they are that's where they are

24:48

Um, just one other thing along that line Did you what you yes, I just want to chime in here one

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Periodically, I need to do this for all of you at home right now Who are saying I wish you'd stop talking about politics all you ever do anymore is talk about politics, right?

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I want to remind you folks and maybe that this was speaking of you years ago

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When all you could think of was the fact that islam was going to take over and dominate the world And and our greatest threat was islam

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You were sitting in that chair in that room saying our biggest threat to the church to the world is secularism

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You haven't changed. It's the thing you were talking about then. We're just further down the road on the matter

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This is it that what you predicted back then Unfolding before our very eyes.

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This isn't politics. These are totalitarians Power -mongers

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Who will seek to silence us? Jail us and close us and there won't be a christian church in their world because there's no room for it

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Because there's no room for dissent or independent thought critical thought or anything of the kind So we won't we won't have any opportunity to talk about the theology.

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We'll be talking about later on the program Because we'll be gone uh, you know who just sent me a quote from 1984

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Big brother is infallible and all -powerful Every success every achievement every victory every scientific discovery all knowledge all wisdom all happiness

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All virtue are held to issue directly from his leadership and inspiration george, orwell 1984 page 208 and Sure is sure is

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Did you all notice? I I kept seeing this show up in my I don't

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I don't normally have twitter Expanded enough to see the stuff on the side, but sometimes

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I have to use that browser do some other things And so I kept seeing This little

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Uh headline Wobbling moon will cause devastating worldwide flooding nasa warns

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And i'm like I know where this is gonna go but All right, click

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Read the article. What is it? It's a natural

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Orbital Variation in the moon that's been observed since the 17 or 1800s.

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I forget which one it was so for hundreds of years and So what they're saying is combine that because it has a minor influence upon high and low tides

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Combine that with global warming And the fact that the oceans are now 47 feet higher than they've ever been before no actually it's a matter of like a centimeter

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Uh, which most of you don't even know what a centimeter is. That's ridiculous but yeah

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You only know that because your tape measure has the has the two sides on it. It's like oh, that's a centimeter, huh?

28:18

Yes, I understand anyway Uh, so you you combine this with the computer projections of global warming and That's what they're talking about nasa

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See what's bothering especially us older folks is there's so many things that we were raised trusting

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That have already been completely corrupted NASA has been turned into a panic -mongering political organization

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The military has been turned into Social experimentation club a1 um

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The medical community we used to have man. I was raised this idea that doctors had made these

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Commitments to you know, never do harm and all the rest of this kind of stuff and now we have hundreds of Billions of dollars flowing into big pharma and folks

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You can get somebody to kill somebody else for 500 How many millions will you kill for 500 billion dollars?

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We already know that there are drug epidemics across the the the the pain med stuff

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Over the past number of years tens of thousands hundreds of thousands of people dead Because big pharma is big pharma and big pharma owns

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Almost everybody in the senate in the house And so it's difficult for us to To get past but we're supposed to trust these people no, you can't

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That that's foolishness. You can't But it's it sticks with us because nasa well, wow nasa got us to the moon

30:19

Well now nasa's making up stuff about the moon in the process uh a couple other things

30:35

Who loves us more than the one who made us? None of us are a surprise to god nothing about who we are or what we've done

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That's why to me It's so important to set a welcome table because I was invited to a table Where someone said don't be afraid you're loved gay straight.

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It does not matter. It doesn't matter how we behave It doesn't matter how we're wired

31:00

That of course is amy grant Speaking to apple music's

31:07

Lgbtq themed proud radio host hunter kelly who is himself a homosexual

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The award -winning singer continued arguing that we are all our best selves when we believe to our core i'm loved

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Grant further shared that she believes our creativity flourishes When we feel loved we're like i'm going to arrange flowers on your table and my table when we're loved

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We're brave enough to say yes to every good impulse that comes to us. She said Grant's words were celebrated by kelly and other members the lgbtq

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Community on social media. This of course is the end result

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Of the hermeneutic of love And the hermeneutic that tells you

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Don't worry about that sin stuff. Don't worry about that holiness stuff. The bible is all about us

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It's all about how much god loves us. It's all about About how much he wants us to succeed and to be happy.

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It's all about man You have to really stop reading the bible at all to get that Nothing here about redemption

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Sacrifice Wrath power. No, no, no That's not for today's world

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That's not what is attractive Well, and if you Stop believing it's the holy spirit of god that brings people to his truth

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And that there may well be times even in the accomplishment of the growth of the kingdom of god when judgment comes

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And the spirit of god is not drawing a whole lot of people In a particular culture at a particular time

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Because he's accomplishing a greater purpose down the road but Amy grant abandoned any type of Semblance of biblical christianity a long time ago, but doesn't that just sound

33:22

I mean If that is so sweet so sugary

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It should cause you to go into diabetic shock But it is also

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Utterly Disconnected from having anything to do with the jesus of history the gospel of history or the scriptures

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And that means It's just simply empty deception

33:52

Nothing more. I'm sure she's the one who's deceived but That's what we have out there one last thing for I want to address some um

34:03

Could have done a radio free geneva on some of the stuff I want to talk about But uh

34:10

I remember I remember what the room looked like. I don't remember which hotel it was in But a lot of the hotel rooms in england look very similar to one another um,

34:21

I was in a hotel room in london sometime in 2018 and it was right around the time when

34:34

I started Butting heads with Bradley mason also a carpenter on twitter

34:43

At the time as I recall I My recollection was he was like a presbyterian or something like that some type of reformed

34:54

Still felt that was somewhat relevant then again. So jamar tisby back then than anymore and He was coming after me for having said the things that I did after the martin luther day stuff and the early discussions that were taking place about critical race theory and How we're really united and what all of that means and I said at the time

35:28

Just Watch what happens over the next few years Just just watch what happens over the next few years

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So here it is 2021 probably right at about three years, you know, just just a little over three years uh since that and Here are three tweets from bradley mason.

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I mean john macarthur is actually an awful expositor He swims in a sea of exegetical fallacies in every sermon, but with confidence

36:02

How are so many duped by him? It's stunning And just look at all his employees at gty have you ever seen a group of less reasonable more ignorant people phil johnson daryl harrison

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That other dude who said white europeans gave the world correct theology. Come on people

36:21

I don't want anything to do with that guy's false religion nor yours whitewash doesn't do you guys well three years

36:31

And I was saying this this is this is going to divide this is going to And it's like three years later bradley mason providing for us documentary evidence

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Jamar tisby has provided for us documentary evidence. Everybody used to be in the reformed african -american network

36:52

Documentary evidence of what? The social justice movement is actually all about and what it is designed to be all about All right

37:10

Are we really gonna you know, maybe we should just start uh Posting all sorts of really important bible verses in sms to each other and just just witness to all these folks

37:25

About the judgment that's going to be coming on them Uh when when you promote that which opposes god's ways god's gonna judge you and and Yeah well anyway um

37:41

Yesterday I posted on the main blog. That was one of the first times in a while I have posted something not on the theology matters blog, but a lengthier article on the main blog uh

37:56

I started hearing from some friends last week, maybe a little bit before then that dr.

38:04

Robert gagnon was Really going off attacking the concept of What I would call the perseverance of the saints basically promoting very strongly that you can be a true believer

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And dwelt by the holy spirit of god and Lose that salvation and be lost die as the enemy of god

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And so I started reading some of the posts And I especially ran across the post on john 6 6 39 not 37 through 45, which would be the heart of the

38:48

Discussion, but anyway 6 39 and I I didn't really know

38:57

How to respond to it Most of us have read dr.

39:04

Gagnon Doing in -depth writing on the subject of human sexuality in the bible and so All sorts of Material about you know intertestamental sources and classical sources and Tanaitic judaism and everything going on in the first century and interaction with various new testament scholars and their understanding of this term and that term and arsenic coitus and all the rest of that kind of stuff and at the same time

39:39

For years and especially when his main book came out he was um at a presbyterian

39:50

Seminary but it was a PCUSA seminary and people would sort of ask me why is

39:55

Bob Gagnon at a PCUSA seminary because PCUSA is pretty compromised on this and has been since the 80s and it and it was

40:06

In fact, it was a PCUSA church that asked me to debate, um Barry Lynn Barry Lynn Barry Lynn, um because they were conservative

40:21

But they knew they knew that they were It was a last ditch thing, you know

40:28

And I I was always sort of like yeah, that is you know And look I went to fuller seminary

40:36

My one of my favorite professors at fuller was a PCUSA guy. In fact,

40:42

I think if I recall correctly he was ordained When he was during the course of one of the classes

40:48

I took like six or seven classes from him And Uh so I I could see

40:59

That Bob Gagnon was not nearly as conservative as I am on Biblical inspiration issues.

41:07

I don't think he would ever use the term inspiration. I'm not inspiration, uh inerrancy Um clearly he holds to Views that I do not hold to though.

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I'm well aware of why people do um I'm, just considerably more conservative

41:30

In my in my position so I I already knew that but I guess in my thinking

41:38

I had sort of assumed that the presbyterian part Meant something as far as Well, like I said that professor

41:47

I had had Mentioned to us in class his needing to have read the uh institutes of christian religion to to pass

41:58

Questions about the westminster confession of faith and stuff like that. So I just sort of assumed

42:06

But as I was reading Dr. Gagnon's post on facebook. I'm going These are not the words of someone who was even formally

42:19

Confessionally Formerly as in in the past Confessionally and convincingly reformed that there were just so many texts were being addressed where it's just natural for anyone to raise the issue of god's electing grace and god's sovereignty and are the elect a certain number of people chosen by god from eternity past and what struck me was

42:50

Every all consistently throughout all of the articles i've read

42:57

That never enters into the conversation at all it's never it's like it it's not even an it's not even an issue everything is about Man maintain if you even use term election, it's maintaining his election by what he does

43:14

I mean, this is john wesley at his john wesley -ist

43:23

There's there's no reformed element to it at all and I was

43:31

You know, it took me a few articles to start going. Well, this is pretty consistent And then as some people pushed back more articles came out

43:40

And It became very clear. Yeah Um, he said in one of them that he went through all the different churches that he's been in and wesleyan was one of them

43:52

Um, but it just struck me that yeah it The whole

44:01

Reformed understanding god's sovereignty the the organizing principle of scripture being

44:08

From genesis to revelation god's self -glorification Um his accomplishment of his purposes this sovereign god who does

44:19

His will whatever desires in heaven and earth amongst the sons of men You know the god described in daniel chapter 4 no one

44:27

Says why have you done this or withholds his hand or any of these types of things? no, that's no that's not there and there is a frightening consistency

44:40

In regards to the centrality of man In these statements and so I wrote a um

44:49

I wrote an article posted yesterday uh on john 6

44:55

Interacting with What he had written on john 6. I have not seen a response I I saw somewhere that he was going to I haven't seen any response today

45:04

At least when the program began there hadn't been one But I wanted to just look at a few statements

45:12

Um from what has been posted And provide some further reformed commentary um

45:22

About these uh about these issues. So for example in regards to romans 9

45:31

Dr. Gagnon wrote it may sound in 9 1 through 29 like everything is predetermined Giving no option for human beings to resist or respond

45:39

Yet even the potter clay imagery echoes the potter story in jeremiah 18 in which god emphasizes that the fate of nations

45:45

Is determined by their response to god and if they change that response god will change the good or evil

45:51

He planned for them. So god has plans, but these plans interact with human will And as I read stuff like this where instead of going into romans 9

46:02

Where it specifically says not human will It says it as strongly and as repetitively as possible

46:11

This is how norman geisler would Approached it Well, you know we can't get focused on just romans 9

46:19

Think about the potter and the clay and let's go over to to jeremiah 18, but that wasn't what paul applied

46:26

He didn't apply it to nations He didn't do the jeremiah 18 thing He did god prepares vessels unto destruction and god prepares vessels of mercy

46:38

That was his application And and so I i'm just looking at this and it was just like the john 6 thing instead of actually following the the the train of thought from 636 635 all the way through Which we've done over and over and over again, and I did again in the article

46:59

Instead it's yeah, but over here in john 15. It says this but john 6 was written before john 15 You can't go to john 15 and say john 15

47:08

Contains absolutely necessary information. It must be read back because what you're saying is john wrote his gospel to be read backwards

47:15

No, he didn't No, he didn't I'm, not saying that there's that there are not and i've said this many many times

47:22

There are beautiful threads and themes that are woven throughout the gospel of john But that doesn't mean you can read it backwards

47:31

And he did the same thing that that geisler did By going to john 640 and reading that backwards into john 639

47:39

Rather than following the flow of thought and allowing definitions to be provided by the writer himself

47:46

This is your standard synergistic man -centered wesleyan approach that results in And the thing is it results

47:58

In exegesis that is not the exegesis we have found in first corinthians 6 or in first timothy 1

48:08

You know because it you go to first timothy 1 and hey look here's all the evidence

48:14

That paul is using the decalogue here And so arson equates

48:20

Here in the decalogue going with pornia I mean, so he's done that kind of solid

48:27

You start here you walk through because he's dealing with New testament scholars that aren't doing that And they're misrepresenting the text

48:36

So he's like no, no, no. No, here's how you do it but it just doesn't I I don't

48:45

From what i've read so far and that's just facebook stuff But this isn't his area that he's written in so I don't have anything else to go on and with all due respect, it just doesn't seem to me like he's read the institutes or Read the westminster confession or understood what it was saying when it said

49:00

God sovereignly decrees all whatsoever comes to pass and so The number of the elect is fixed and all that old time calvinism stuff

49:11

You would think there would be some Interaction with that or some recognition of that or at least some rejection of it outside of just Ignoring it

49:23

Because it's ignored here there's no Romans 9 is just simply yeah, don't worry about the fact that romans 9

49:31

Specifically says it does not have to do with the will of man And yet the conclusion is so god has plans but these plans interact with human will that's not what romans 9 says

49:44

That's the exact opposite of what romans 9 says Um, so I mean, it's just it's confusing it really is confusing but today there was stuff on philippians chapter 2 and I It it it was it was concerning.

50:06

Um, and I think it's concerning to a lot of folks not just me So that's what i'm talking about So, you know that right after the carmen christie right after that incredible sermon example verses 5 through 11

50:18

Don't look to the things for yourself. Look to the things of others humility of mind key issue

50:25

Paul gets back to his exhortation And he says therefore so then

50:31

My beloved ones just as you have always obeyed Not just uh in my presence only

50:38

But much more in my absence Meta fabu kai tramu

50:45

Tain haeouton soterion katergadzeste Theosgar esten haenergon en humine kaita theline kaita energain

51:00

Hupertes eudachias So then my beloved just as you have heard

51:06

Just you've always obeyed not only in my presence, but in my absence haeouton soterion your salvation now, it's plural

51:19

So he's talking about the church as a whole Because that's what the exhortation has been to This is how you have peace in the church humility of mind toward one another.

51:29

Okay? Then he says katergadzeste work out and he put a whole section

51:40

Of saying it's not really work out um it's

51:49

How do you put it work for well, I might have it right here um

51:57

Paul quote paul is really telling his readers at philippi to work at bring about effect or gain by work

52:05

Accomplish their own salvation The fact that paul exhorts his readers to be doing this with fear and trembling supports this normal translation

52:14

Paul adds this to impress upon believers the gravity of the situation and the dire consequences that would follow from not working out your own salvation

52:20

Namely not being raised from the dead in transformed bodies and consequently loss of eternal life in the kingdom of god

52:28

Is that what paul is saying here? Not even close Not even close Paul's not addressing

52:36

That at all. He's talking to the congregation And he's warning them against division and he's referring to them in the plural

52:48

And he's telling them god is the one working Amongst you that's why it's meta fabu kai tramu not because you're going to Not earn your salvation not work out your salvation

53:02

But because it is god the one working in you and who mean plural

53:09

Both to will and to work who pair taste eudaic eos according to his kind intention

53:20

Now we could jump over to ephesians 1 and talk about eudaic ea And the ground of god's choosing and eternal salvation everything else there

53:31

But then notice The next phrase is ponta poieta Choris gungus mon kai dialogus mon

53:40

Do all things without gungus mooing remember my one of my favorite greek terms gungus mooing

53:49

Grumbling also in john 6 and Disputing it's literally dialoguing but it's being put in a negative

53:58

So you go with that part of the semantic domain anyways, so again, this is life in the church

54:03

This is life in the fellowship And so this working out of salvation is living in communion with one another

54:16

By practicing humility of mind as jesus demonstrated And that's what the carmen christie was all about so but the the point the the reason for fear and trembling

54:30

Is because you recognize that it is god who is at work within you Within you the people that's what philippians 2 is about and so it

54:43

I think is worthwhile to Point out that one said paul is really telling his readers at philippi to work at bring about effect or gain by work

54:54

Accomplish their own salvation No It seems that what dr.

55:02

Gagnon is saying is Salvation is provided by grace alone

55:08

But it is accomplished and obtained through our works Which is really what you're stuck with in provisionism too, which again all synergistic systems end up Coming down to that Um So it's troubling to see that because We've often said we we rejoice in the blessed inconsistencies of our arminian brothers

55:35

But it doesn't look like the inconsistency is here There is a consistent um

55:43

I think very dangerous Missing Of the centrality of grace and the power of grace

55:51

And the actual purpose of salvation which is not focused upon us It's focused upon The father son holy spirit accomplishing what has been decreed from eternity past Now I said it just did not seem that there is really a familiarity with past presbyterian writers and reformed theology and things like that You tell me

56:14

He wrote an article. I think this morning on the tulip and I I read the whole thing and i'm trying to i'm reading

56:24

I As a friendly person I don't want to Be at odds with bob gagnon

56:33

But This is important stuff. This is this is the essence of the gospel that we then communicate to people

56:41

And It just struck me that this is not a person who has ever

56:47

Who certainly has ever held to? Reform theology with an understanding of of of its consistency and its wholeness

56:55

But it doesn't even seem like it's done much reading in that area at all You you tell me here's here's this here's l

57:03

Here's limited atonement you tell me regarding limited atonement. I don't think god works toward works toward limiting atonement

57:13

But rather toward maximizing it that said

57:18

Atonement is certainly limited because not everyone will be saved And the only confident way of being saved is by believing in jesus

57:28

Faith understood in a holistic sense that leads to a transformed life Still some people seem to be attended to by god and his emissaries more than others

57:41

It is a complex issue and i'm not sure how to resolve everything Except to say that our cue from god is to take the gospel to as many as possible

57:48

And to be as little of a stumbling block as possible to the reception of the gospel without of course compromising truth and love

57:54

That is what god wants to be our operating premise, which is good enough for me Okay I mean i'm i'm literally

58:06

Wanting to read still some people seem to be attended to by god and his emissaries more than others

58:12

As some kind of an affirmation of election, you know, you know, i'm really wanting to read this positively

58:20

But limited atonement Is simply the recognition

58:26

Of the consistency of the father and the son In accomplishing the one purpose of god

58:35

So that the son dies to redeem those that the father has chosen to redeem

58:43

It has to do with substitution It has to do with who is going to be united with christ

58:49

It has to do with what the very source of having saving faith is I've seen nothing so far

58:57

In any of this that would indicate that dr. Gagnon has any Acceptance of the idea that saving faith is a gift from god

59:07

That that philippians 1 29 says it has been granted to us not only to suffer for to believe

59:12

And to suffer for his his name. It's been granted to us to believe I i've seen none of that and so i'm just I I if someone described limited atonement in this way

59:30

My and if you hadn't told me who it was and you just gave this to me and said just just for larks

59:37

What do you think this background the guy's background would be I would never ever ever say a theology professor at a presbyterian seminary

59:48

Maybe the pcusa has been so far removed from anything close to historically reformed for so long that That I was naive to make that connection

01:00:02

I suppose that's possible um I do try to think the best and But this description of limits homan actually doesn't touch on why anyone would believe in it

01:00:15

Why I believe in it why I think it is biblical why I think it's right there what you What you find in romans chapter 8

01:00:26

Um anyway, um Okay, and here's another one oops gone past time give me a few more minutes one could argue

01:00:40

That unconditional election is not the same as unconditional salvation, but this seems to me to be a distinction without much of a difference

01:00:47

There is no election of someone who won't believe Or no maintenance of election in individuals who do not continue in faith

01:01:00

That is a doctrine of election that is completely man -centered This isn't election is a divine act

01:01:09

It's god's choice He chose us in eternity past so You don't maintain that Your saving faith is the result of that It's god working within you both will and do according.

01:01:28

It's good pleasure as we just saw So So election two is bound up with the condition of faith

01:01:38

So you're only elect if you believe so God election is not god's choice.

01:01:43

It's ours. I don't I don't know how else to read this The father requires those whom he elects to believe in his son how about The father chooses his elect draws them unto the son

01:02:08

And as a result of the spirit's work in their life they believe and continue to do so And have persevering faith

01:02:16

That would fit john 6 wouldn't it? No one can come to me Unless the father sent me draws him and I will raise him up in the last day and there is no distinction between the two outtons

01:02:28

We've covered that Salvation is also contingent upon maintenance of a transformed life according to numerous new testament texts

01:02:40

This is what we deal with roman catholicism on all the time because that's what they say Instead of god's work of justifying and changing the heart

01:02:56

So that the result is good works that flow from that changed heart Salvation is contingent upon maintenance of a transformed life according to numerous new testament texts

01:03:08

So this is the difference between prescription and description And dr. Gagnon saying this is prescriptive just as rome says just as wesley said

01:03:18

Rather than This is descriptive of what the holy spirit accomplishes in the lives of his redeemed people to his honor and glory

01:03:26

This is the divide of the reformation. Dr. Gagnon's on the other side These words are on the other side.

01:03:32

I'm not trying to start a war here. I'm just pointing out I've taught church history for as long as dr.

01:03:39

Gagnon's been teaching And this is on the other side of that divide. This is on the other side of the tiber um

01:03:47

That's incredibly incredibly troubling stuff but again, it's troubling because It seems so inconsistent to me not only with the history but then inconsistent with the

01:04:04

Excellent examples of exegesis that have been provided to us in another area which again

01:04:11

I was thinking about and i'm like well I I get that part

01:04:17

Because the reality is there is no part of christian revelation

01:04:24

That more directly strikes at man's autonomy than this

01:04:34

And so how many people do we know who are so good in this area and so good in that area? It comes this one area

01:04:41

And all of a sudden they use a different exegetical methodology And that's what we've got here, too so I just got the feeling and there's so much more i've got a ton of stuff here but it it just Struck me because Real quickly and I quoted it in the uh in the thing, um

01:05:08

He I quoted the the reason why he was doing this and and I agree with him on this

01:05:14

We're we're in absolute agreement about this And that is What he really finds objectionable

01:05:22

Here if you believe that the new covenant makes it possible Albeit not preferable to live a sin -controlled life without fear of not inheriting god's kingdom consider yourself a purveyor of the heresy of antinomianism

01:05:33

Now he recognizes That perseverance of the saints is not once saved always saved. He recognizes that difference

01:05:40

I'm, just not sure if he recognizes why that difference exists It's not just a different way of putting it

01:05:47

Perseverance of the saints comes about because The son will always do the will of the father

01:05:54

That's its origin and source I don't see a recognition of that But we both recognize the anti -lordship easy -believe -ism get -your -ticket -punch stuff

01:06:07

Is reprehensibly false And obviously so so we get that But It just seems to me this is as you said it's this is your sort of standard

01:06:23

Wesleyan holiness stuff that Whitfield and and uh, and Wesley went out about a long time ago and comes up all the time

01:06:33

But it has to come up all the time Because this is this is a difference this, you know

01:06:38

Spurgeon wrote a great book all of grace still needs to be read important stuff

01:06:44

Really important stuff Well, there you go. Okay Uh, there was other stuff

01:06:50

I was I was gonna mention, um Really quickly, I know you keep reaching for the music button, but We're all fine here now, but um just really quickly, uh

01:07:04

Big news today. Um Pope Benedict Who's still alive

01:07:12

I think um who gave freedom

01:07:19

For people to use the latin mass Uh francis today rescinded

01:07:27

Benedict's granting of that freedom And is again restricting as had been restricted before um the uh the utilization of the of the latin mass and there's a lot of If you go if you start finding some of your roman catholic friends, they're all talking about it right now they're all talking and I had a

01:07:49

I've mentioned him before as this alan rule guy on uh out there. He's got a blog someplace

01:07:54

He's just always been a really nasty just Not the kind of person you really want to be spending any time just Everything he's criticized me for you just take the worst possible reading twist it and that's what alan rules come up with He just jumped into a thread on um on on uh

01:08:13

With some some muslims Which is amazing. He's he would actually do something like that.

01:08:19

I mean talk about uh being a papist but I it was so easy just to just you know

01:08:26

He was coming after me about you're quoting these wacko liberals and i'm like what like your pope it's like and you can just tell that there was brain matter all over the all over the room because he was like Well, he's not going to be there forever it's like yeah, but he's still your infallible leader now, isn't he?

01:08:44

And uh, you may have one worse than him after him What happens when you've you you're stuck with the papacy it's it's a mess so well we started off with the uh,

01:08:58

The resident of the white house, um Coming up with the wrong talking points, but the scary talking points at the start

01:09:07

Half an hour's worth of stuff that might make rich not sleep well tonight again

01:09:13

Uh, and then we got into theology, didn't we? Yes, we did Uh, because it's all still important and believe it or not.

01:09:21

It's all connected together It's all connected together so Anyhow, thanks for watching the program today

01:09:29

Uh lord willing we'll see you next lord willing Because let me tell you something

01:09:35

I don't know why we're still here Because I know all sorts of people

01:09:45

We all we can document all sorts of people Who have been disappeared from social media?

01:09:50

for a whole lot less Than anything I said today But at least

01:09:57

I said it clearly and without apology apology in the modern sense

01:10:04

I would be happy to present an apology for it in the ancient sense of that term Uh, but we'll see so always remember

01:10:15

Download the app So we can still get in touch with you If things go bye -bye and all of a sudden we're on some other mechanism or have an announcement

01:10:26

We got to get out that. Yep. We finally got disappeared and stuff like that. You need the app on your phone