RV News, Then Hebrews 1:10-12 and Dale Tuggy

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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00:32

Well, um One o 'clock came fast. I Put together a tweet yesterday, but I realized that everybody's on Twitter and I realized that the fact that I'm Insisting on using the term

00:50

Twitter is sort of like why still and will always summer Sorry, put two spaces after a period

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Because You know, I'm old and I don't want to change

01:05

I just don't have any any desire to so Twitter is Twitter. And so you still write tweets and It was a big hill for me to climb to ever use that terminology and I just don't think you can just change it

01:16

I don't care if Elon Musk did it. I mean, I've got a lot of respect for the guy, but Doesn't matter they're tweets and so I Mentioned on Twitter yesterday that I Yesterday turned out to be not what

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I expected to be. Okay? I Got back on Thursday. We had to get the

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RV now. I had some guy complain on on Twitter About you know the first 15 minutes.

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Well look Most people know that over 35 day period

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It's February into March we did a marathon trip marathon trip and We did

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Five major debates and I taught at the seminary barely

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We we were at a conference. I preached various churches it was

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But most of you also know that I also became very ill and for the first time in years and years and years and years

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I was at an urgent care and then I Was just a few days later about five days later.

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I'm in the ER. I Even packed a little bag When I went to the ER because I figured

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I'm gonna be here a while Thankfully didn't turn out that way. I haven't gotten the bill yet so Up till now

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I have been going this is a great ER man. I was in and out, but I haven't gotten the bill yet so We'll hold off on that last part until we have all that figured out.

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But anyway We had some serious challenges on the on the trip

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And just you know for those who are new I drive now.

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I do. I am NOT afraid of flying. I flew 165 ,000 miles in 2019 alone.

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I Flew I've ministered in Samara Russia Kiev Ukraine Durban and Johannesburg South Africa spent two months in London.

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I was in Melbourne, Australia I was all over the world in 2019 and Looked like it was gonna continue that way and then

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COVID hit and Everything changed and you had to wear masks and The airlines didn't care that if I put a mask on I'm in real danger of going into what's called supraventricular tachycardia

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SVT Which is far more dangerous than COVID was turned out to be

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They didn't care it was just die that you've been giving us over a hundred thousand dollars a year and ticket ticket costs

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We don't care. We don't want your money so I drive now and I miss my overseas folks, but things are the way they are and so we invested starting in 2021 in a way to get me around and We started with a little 19 -foot

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Self -contained unit that we rented from I forget what it's called but I messed it up not not that I crashed or anything, but I didn't realize how tall it was and We had some issues and I tried to keep all that stuff out of my mind

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All we were trying to find out is could I do this? Could I travel this way and we decided yes, we can do that and so we didn't know what we were doing

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We got a truck it was really nice truck, but it wasn't a diesel That was a mistake Derek Melton told us to get a diesel from the start, but we didn't and we got a 30 -foot long grand design fifth wheel and We had to figure out, you know

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You know Rich is sitting here and and he was he was our big expert at the start because he had he used to pull his boat

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That was that was the level of our expertise Well, okay, but that was a that was a fully that wasn't a fifth wheel

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No, that was a self -contained that's different. So at least you knew what a sewer hose was, but I didn't and so we there was there was a big learning curve, you know and We didn't realize first one.

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You have to put the slide out to use the restroom man Is that a pain when you're traveling that is that that design flaw major stuff?

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so we've been learning a lot and last year I came up with the idea of Getting a little bit larger unit.

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They would have bunks in the back and taking the bedroom out and making it into a studio and rich got at it and he

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You all helped raise the the funds to we We got funds from another source

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So thankful to God for that for the truck upgrade so we have a powerful 2500

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HD diesel truck with a 10 -speed Allison transmission in it. So it's designed to pull that's what it's it's designed to do

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And we got a Jayco Eagle a 35 -foot Jayco Eagle and rich got in there and he pulled out the bed and he built a platform and found a

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Just did everything we needed to do. I did the background. I'm not sure how we're gonna get that off but You don't think that's gonna come off We're just gonna hope they don't notice that part

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Don't ask don't tell We're gonna do the don't ask don't tell for all the places where the pictures come down and there's holes in the wall and everything

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Else. Yeah, and don't ask don't tell anyway And so all of you most of you probably have seen

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What we've done from in there and we've done a lot from in there and it's really great and it's really super But those who are listening

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At the end of the trip as I was coughing and hacking my way through it know that I reported that we had roof problems and That had started

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Long ago Really after like the first or second trip We we pulled it in to the place where we you know have tires you know the tires checked and rotated and there's just the stuff to do to make sure that it keeps running and Rich is taller than I am.

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And so he was out in front of the truck and he's like Is this supposed to look like that and there were bubbles?

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Ripples in the roof membrane that are not supposed to be there. This is a brand new unit and So they get up there and they go

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Yeah, this isn't good but Jayco will have to repair this and so They went to bat for us, you know the

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Jayco want us to go to one of their dealers Which was going to be months down the road We were gonna be without the unit and this place went to bat for us.

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And so they got Jayco to use them. They sent them the material Anyways, make a long story short.

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They well they redid the roof and This was the first trip with the new roof and I'm maybe 2 ,000 miles into this trip.

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I'm 90 minutes outside of Houston and I hear the strangest noise I've ever heard. I've never heard

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Anything like this in all the miles. I've been pulling an RV a fifth wheel and so I I get to the place

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I I had to back into this spot. It wasn't a pull through and so it was right next to a lake and So I back in and I backed it in real nicely and nice and straight and so I took a picture and Sent to the family.

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It's really pretty got a nice lake back there fountains. It's really nice. And so I'm sort of looking at it and Then I Expanded the picture and it's like oh no and I see that the front of the roof has peeled back and So we call a mobile

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RV repair company, there's two of them listed in the brochure of the place They send somebody out they spent hours up there and they said oh man we've we've put we've put even better material than then is there up there and and you know all that kind of stuff and and So on and so forth and so I got literally 100 and 135 miles

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From Houston when I heard it Disintegrate the patch that we had spent nearly

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My eyes the the patch that we had spent nearly a thousand dollars on lasted 135 miles like and we called we called the guys and and Richard told me what

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I was what we were gonna hear We're sorry Get money back.

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No, I don't think so You're gone now We we've we've got the money and that's how it works.

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So I get to the next place in Texas Real nice guy comes out and all we try to do there is just tape it

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I've got some roofing tape that I carried with me and he's up there using a roller I it actually lasted like a day and a half

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Before one side of it stayed down and I had some real wins. I was fighting So the lead there's at least that but by the time

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I got back I was down to wood I mean you could literally see the wood framing on the one side. It was it's pretty bad and so we're like what's going on guys and So they told us that they were hearing rumors that there is a particular problem with the

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Jacobs that they were flexing and When you think about it that membrane up there is glued down and if you flex something that's glued

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Over and over and over and over again. What does it do? It breaks the glue and So I said there's a test that we have to do and if it fails then

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What we're told is Jaco requires you to send the unit back to Illinois Indiana and starts an eye.

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Okay, Indiana where they're headquartered where their manufacturing is for a rebuild and So Monday we did the big program here and I was thinking, you know,

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I preached on Sunday Monday we did the big program Tuesday I'm gonna for the first time in A month and three weeks

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Try to take it easy. Try to start recharging the batteries a little bit and in the meanwhile rich goes over to the

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RV place and They have discovered that the unit is defective

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That it is not built right? There's be no way to repair that roof at all

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So we automatically know what this means all that stuff that we've done with the with the

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Studio and the stuff that rich built and you know He even got the carpet that matched the carpet that was in there and it was it was great

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My beautiful background. I don't know what I'm gonna do with my light now, you know Rich says that he's not sure what's gonna have that I can assure you what's gonna happen to rich if anything happens to that No, it ain't getting lost

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I assure you of that I have a good idea where it's gonna end up anyway Yesterday they they they go, okay, it's

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It's going back to Jaco and I'm like, I'll be honest with you. I don't want to get another

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Jaco I mean, we've we've really had to fight with them and I Don't honestly trust almost anything that's been made since 2020

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The grand design had issues. It was made in 2020 during kovat.

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This is made during like 2022 Everything we've been hearing horror stories from everybody in the industry about what's been going on since 2020 well,

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I'm really Blessed providentially we are blessed. We've developed a good relationship with this this this place

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In getting all the repairs done that we've done and they've gone to bat for us and they know we're Christians and we're gonna treat them right and they're gonna treat us right and When when we come in they know that we understand that we're dragging these things down roads

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With big old potholes in them and I do everything I can to avoid him. But sometimes there's nothing you can do and so they're gonna get banged around and stuff's gonna break and stuff's gonna not work, right and Most of the people that come in there are blaming them

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For the fact that you know that poor little that poor little thing you're dragging behind your truck is gonna go through 20 earthquakes every day

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We don't do that. We we know there's could be wear and tear. This could be stuff that happens they like us and they have units on consignment or that have they've received in some other way and So I had gone over and looked at the fifth wheels that they had

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Rich and I had gone over because we have been told of a particular brand that almost never has service calls

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The guy in Texas had told me I've never been called out to work on one of these and yeah

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I can see why I mean we are talking top top top top top and Most expensive type of stuff that you can get and I can see why okay.

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Yeah, that's that's probably gonna last a long time But we went over and I went

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I met one of the sales guys and was talking to him and and There were two units that they had that were very very very similar floor plans very similar

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We had decided two things We didn't want to go back to the Jacob And We needed to rethink not having a not not rethink having studio.

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We want to have the studio We want to be able to do that want to be able to have the two cameras want to be able to do the the

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Stuff like what we do at the big screen over here, which we'll do a little later in the program We are going to get to that.

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There's a reason for me taking this amount of time folks. There really is But we also recognize that when

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I got sick this last time I Wasn't in a good spot To try to recuperate in that unit.

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I didn't have a bed Yeah, I've got a bunk You can't sit up in it. You can't you

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I couldn't like stack pillows under my head so I could breathe. I had to sit

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Sitting up at the kitchen table to try to sleep because of the sinus infection and you know

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Sinus infections are fairly common while traveling especially when you're greeting people and stuff like that. Yeah So we had started gone, you know, we just sort of assumed

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I'd always be, you know, super healthy And made him not that may have been a little bit arrogant really when you think about it

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It would be good to have a bedroom again So you need to have a bedroom and a place to put a studio

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Well, both of these units Have that have that capacity that ability

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Plus some other really neat things that go along with that to be pretty honest with you and so Yesterday moved fast

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Yesterday moved really fast and Basically they they are really trying to work with us now

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They we have to take a bath on the Jayco. How could we not? I mean, it's gonna it's basically to be a refurb

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You know They can't really sell it for top dollar so we're not gonna get a whole lot back out of it but they've given us a

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I think an incredible price on a 2020 unit That I will be honest with you makes me a little nervous

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It makes me a little nervous first of all because it's so nice and it's such high quality

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It's been super well taken care of but what makes me nervous is It's five and a half feet longer

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Than the unit I've been pulling and weighs 4 ,000 pounds more

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That's not a big deal on the freeway, okay, I mean other than Okay, I I'm gonna be weighing that much more

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So that's that much farther ahead that you need to be thinking and by the way

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To everyone out there driving on the freeways in your little teeny tiny little cars when you pull in front of one of us or a semi -tractor trailer and Then slam on the brakes you may die

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Because there's nothing there's there's things called the laws of physics. All right, and You can stop a whole lot faster at 2 ,000 pounds than I can at 22 ,000 pounds.

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Okay, and we're not even talking about a fully loaded Semi that's doing, you know 60 ,000 pounds

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Just don't do that. There's a reason that there's space in front of my vehicle It's called so I don't kill anyone in there and it just it's amazing the number of people's

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In there as they don't even think I mean, but even think about twice Anyway, every truck driver will tell you the exact same thing.

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It is just the constant bane of our existence so But I've never backed something up this big

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It's I'll just say right now. It's 40 feet long. It's 40 feet long and Our storage our storage slot our covered storage slot for it is 45 feet long.

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Okay. Well, it'll fit but I have I've sent rich pictures when

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I've gotten it in there nice and straight and I would say about that much space between the

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Pole, which is holding the roof up and the side of my unit and Maybe this much between that and the parked vehicle on the other side

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It's a little bit of a challenge I'm a little nervous about it it's not that big deal out on the road

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I go through the same lanes that the big truckers go through to get diesel and deaf and So that's not that's that's not an issue

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That was an issue initially one of the things that was really tough initially was we had a gas -powered truck so you had to go through the auto lanes and I'm not even sure how

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I survived that to be honest with you, but somehow I did So what does all that mean? It means that as of right now

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Rich and I both have a lot of work When we get done with this program We're gonna be looking at Hebrews chapter 1 here in a while Talking about some of the stuff that came up in the

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Dale Tuggy debate doctrine the Trinity stuff like that When we get done with this he and I are both jetting over and I need to get my bike and trainer out of the old unit and get out of the way so that rich can bring the couch

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Which is supposed to go there and and put it back in hey at least at least

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Anybody who buys that Jayco that couch has never been touched Might be a little dusty But it's never never been used.

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We just pulled it out as soon as we got it, and that's where you put my bike But you know

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I've got to get that stuff out of there. There's all sorts of other stuff and at some point next week

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I would imagine Rich and I are gonna be spending a long day getting everything out of the one and into the other and That's in the midst of I'm not sure if you've thought about this or if I even mentioned it to you the

22:22

Easter pageant starts tonight in in Mesa, Arizona, and so my son -in -law is leading is

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Heading up apologias outreach at the Easter pageant in Mesa, Arizona I want to be able to get out there with my granddaughters at least a few nights

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And we also hopefully not sure how we're gonna make this work rich. We'll figure it out

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But either tomorrow or Friday. I need to talk to Peter and Tobias Our dear brothers

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Peter Schultz and Tobias Raymond Schneider from Germany landed a few hours ago here in Phoenix and You know every year for a number of years.

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I would go visit them now They're returning the favor coming to visit me and apologia

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Tobias will be preaching on Sunday at apologia, so four o 'clock

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Mountain Standard Time, which is currently Pacific Daylight Time Anyway live on YouTube and Facebook Tobias will be preaching for us this coming

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Sunday. I would highly encourage you to tune in for that He will be preaching in English is

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English is wonderful, but it does have that good German. I remember you know who

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Tobias is I didn't have time to pull it up, but we played him singing Psalm 2 in German on the program.

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I don't know about a year ago or so and It's a wonderful singing voice, I'm not gonna ask him to sing on the program, but They will be joining us for the dividing line at some point between now and the weekend we just have to work out exactly how to do that with the

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RV stuff and the outreach to the Mormons and Everything else we've got going on so Lord willing

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Yeah Someone just said 4k more pounds my Miata is under 2 ,200.

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I know believe me Because people in a Miata will pull right in front of me and slam on the brakes

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And if I don't see him and just keep on going I want I'm not even sure that I would know that they were gone

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What was that another another bump in the road a little speed bump there, and that would be the end of that So yeah,

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I I get it anyhow He sent a picture and yeah, you're parked next to a vehicle

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That's still not as big as my truck so that gives you an idea of what we're doing out there So we've got a lot of stuff going on and and I'm not even talking about the fact

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That we have two debates coming up. We've announced these now On the front page at a omen org to the base of Jimmy Akin coming up in Louisiana And I basically have to leave in a month

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So we've got to get all this done gotta get all the stuff done to the truck everything into the new unit

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Have everything ready to go now. I I don't think we will have the studio as tweaked as We would eventually like it to be

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But it should be functional at least we'll be able to programs the background may just be a black background nothing overly fancy Yeah, we're not gonna have time to have anything printed between now and then but once I get back from that one

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We'll work on stuff for the background, and I'll see what I can do with my lights and and stuff like that Rachel Try to find ways of making that not happen, but anyway

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Oh look it got broken. Don't worry. I know how to get it from from from Amazon again and so But this is gonna be a busy month, and it's it's like Didn't you just do 35 days, and you're not even gonna slow down Yeah, basically is the way.

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It's looking right now. I don't see really much anyway around that You know we've got to take it you got to work while the while the

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Sun is shining the nights coming when no one's gonna be able to work someone said that once and I don't

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I'll be honest with you. I don't know what state this nation is going to be in after the election I Just don't know

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I can see all sorts of really probable situations that Could make travel next to impossible

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I don't know. I just want to take advantage while I can and We are going to schedule some in -studio debates like in here and I'm not saying that that they have less worth than In -person debates but I prefer the in -person

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I I prefer live audience I prefer

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Questions from people that are right there rather than Nameless stuff coming in on the internet with a super chat or whatever those things are called.

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We've never done that anyway So yeah,

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I just I do feel a need a compulsion to work hard at this point in time and to get as much done as we as we possibly can and So I Have I think

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Yes, I do Uh -huh, should I so here's here's the here's the situation folks

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Let me put this down a little bit I Don't figure anyone's gonna be able to track me down and like shoot me in my sleep if I do this

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Here's we're not we're not doing a There's if you go to the donation page at AOMN .org,

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we don't have a special Fundraising tab

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Right now like we did last year when we did the Jayco and the studio and by the way,

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I Don't know That it's going to There's gonna be a huge amount of costs as far as the studio is concerned

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We've got the cables. We've got the lights. We've got the cameras The all the expensive stuff we've got it's gonna be little things like The the stand we need that's going to be firm enough that hold the light and the camera is this kind of stand or something like that that kind of thing so that part isn't the issue the the issue is

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We're gonna be getting a minimal amount. I think a fair amount given the situation and you know

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These these guys are these guys are taking a risk for us and I appreciate that Okay, there's not many places.

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It'll do that. They're really aren't We're gonna be taking a bath on the

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Jayco They've given us a really good price on this unit, but we need to raise those funds

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And so we're just using the travel fund at AOMN .org and I happen to have a

29:52

Picture, it's the picture they took I Can't I can't well what if I do that oh there you go

30:02

So there it is I don't know if you can bring oh there. It is you can see it down there, so you can see it's rich says that you looked into it and that the thing down there the hitch in the front you said is

30:18

One of the top in the industry It's really everything we've seen on this has been

30:26

Just Everything we've been able to look up people have said this is this is really really good stuff, and you'll you can't tell

30:36

Moses If you're if you're an RV or like me you see that it has six struts instead of four

30:42

It's only a two axle some of them. They're that big or three axles But it's a

30:48

Redwood it has three slide outs and For those of you that are fellow

30:57

RVers, there's a little teeny bathroom right through that door And you might go why?

31:05

Because when you pull over along the side of the road you don't want to be there for a long period of time, okay?

31:11

It's just they're just there's little things that can really mean a lot In a situation like that that pass -through storage by the way there kid.

31:19

I think we could put that Miata I think we put Scott Johnson's Miata in the pass -through storage

31:26

The unit there So yes There's there's the 2020 unit that I think the

31:33

Lord just planted at that place And it was the first one I walked into its first one

31:38

I looked at and I said this has got everything that we need It is a little bit older on some issues

31:44

It's it's similar to the first one we had the grand design as far as the refrigerator is electric propane and It has a hot water tank instead of a tankless hot water system, so I'm gonna have to shift my thinking back a little bit but the

32:05

Studio will go in the very back so you can see a slide out there. That's making room for that back area

32:10

Where we'll have the cameras set up and the lights and things like that now I I know that I'm gonna have to set things up.

32:17

I have to set things up right now, too But obviously we're gonna be looking at doing is making it so that that's the least labor -intensive thing

32:28

Well you know what You you told you told me

32:35

That it had only been there what about a week When you look at the listing it says more photos coming there were none on the inside there were no inside pictures but but I Okay, yeah,

32:53

I Did Yeah, and unfortunately it didn't my my signal thing for the family isn't

33:09

Pulling up the stuff that I sent out last night unfortunately, so I did find some inside pictures

33:17

Just the unit in general not necessarily just this one That was able to send to the family because that is one other thing.

33:23

I just want to mention this one other Reason for the much larger unit is

33:30

I'm hoping That maybe my wife might be able to come with me not for entire trips right now.

33:38

She's taking care of her mom You know there's other things take care of at home But what would be really nice is like at the end of a trip when

33:47

I'm really starting to get a little tired It'd be great to have somebody in the truck with me the last couple days and This is a unit that I can guarantee you she

33:59

It has a real bathroom, okay, I can understand and most women would be able to understand you look at most

34:10

RV bathrooms and They're not something that a woman would be overly excited about They're very very very small

34:21

Constricted no space for anything. That's not this this has two sinks and lots of Space and yeah,

34:30

I think my wife would be willing to do that and maybe get me home all in one piece That's the other other aspect of this that we're rather excited about so Travel fund

34:44

Akin debate coming up in a little over a month There's a couple others possibly online that we're looking at and then let me just tell you

34:54

I can't give you any details But I have made the decision to start doing some very serious research and reading

35:03

In a brand new area that we have not Gotten into in the past and I'm really hoping to set up a major debate this fall

35:16

I'm not exactly sure where yet. I would need to have we would need to have a decent -sized place and I'm thinking about I Was contacted today about speaking at a very large conference in 2025 and The sponsoring church,

35:34

I think would be just ideal for this Maybe a lot of study on my part hours and hours and hours and hours and hours of study on my part

35:41

But again, I really think that this is how we'll be able to get all that stuff done

35:47

Scott Johnson, it doesn't yet, but it's ready for it I'll just let you figure that out from Twitter It it it has all the connections all it's all we need to do is put them in there and we will do that So yeah, there you go

36:04

Okay, so Travel fund if you go to the donate page, there's the general fund and we you know still need stuff in the general fund

36:12

Yeah, I've got to keep the lights on but then if you drop that down travel fund, that's how we'll be covering all of this all this stuff and Making it work you know,

36:26

I I Was not expecting this at all When I pulled out on this last trip got a brand new roof, all right, whoo, yeah, this is is great, you know

36:37

This is wonderful. I never saw this coming and I never want to hear that sound again either

36:43

But I'll know what it is if I hear it. I don't want to hear it. So, all right, so Hit the travel fund.

36:52

Let us know you support us in doing the debates and this is how we do them now That's just just the way it is

36:57

I've explained why and and You know some people go not not gonna support that.

37:03

Okay, that's fine. That's cool. But those who Want to see us continue to do these types of things

37:10

We need your assistance and be very appreciative of it. So what I want to cover in the last amount of time we have here and we haven't talked a lot about it and I Don't think

37:22

I mentioned or I may have mentioned in passing Dale Tuggy is interested in doing

37:30

The prologue of John a debate on the prologue of John. We're having some conversation We both know that in person is a little bit better than online.

37:40

But hey This would be a good way to do it too. And I I do want to try to start arranging some debates

37:49

Utilizing this type of thing. I I wanted to do that in the studio too and we will do that I really really do want to schedule a

37:59

Serious debate while I'm on the road using this stuff that God has given to us

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So Haven't said much about the the debate

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I did see some debate review I guess even Dale Tuggy Dale Tuggy is getting into doing having guests on to do debate reviews

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I guess that's what you got to start doing now or something. I don't know but If you have watched it,

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I would be interested. I would really be I wish there was some way To like take a poll of the audience.

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I suppose we could on Twitter We probably if we had somebody running the

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Twitter feed we probably could put a poll up and do again an instant response from everybody watching on Twitter or something like that, but I would be interested in What most people felt

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About the interaction that took place and the arguments because I knew exactly what was going to happen.

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I Knew exactly what's going to happen. I told people exactly what was going to happen and Well that that was it wasn't magical.

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We had to exchange our opening statements He required that and he probably would for the John 11 debate, too

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So I knew But but even before we exchanged opening statements, I knew what was going to happen

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Dale Tuggy has a specific approach I suppose people say so do

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I but Mine is a primarily exegetical approach. His is a primarily it the

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Bible can't mean these things because of these issues G that you can't be a

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God man because of certain philosophical issues Okay, and so I knew that that's pretty much what we could be getting and it was for his opening statement then in his rebuttal he

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Started to try to address the text that I had presented in my opening though All you can do if you don't if you don't go after those texts in your opening

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Which was what 25? I think it was 25 minutes long the rebuttals.

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I think were only 10 So when you think about it, how can you give almost any meaningfully?

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deep Exegetical response to multiple texts when you only have 10 minutes

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I It's just not possible to do and so when I had seen the opening

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I was sort of like this is mm -hmm, okay of The texts

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I presented and there were many many more we could have gotten into I did get into I Did eventually get into in the rebuttal period because he mentioned the

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I am sayings of Jesus I got into some of that because that's directly relevant to who Yahweh is and and things like that but I felt

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That the weakest by far the weakest Argumentation that he presented was in in response to Hebrews chapter 1 and so Let's let's take a look at the text wet the whistle a little bit there

41:34

Rich has built a really cool little place. I can put my water bottle in here Very impressive, of course, if the thing ever falls apart on air, we will know exactly who to blame and it won't be me

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So here's uh, I suppose we could call it the prologue of Hebrews in a in a sense, but You know, yeah, hold on that's gonna drive you crazy

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Let's go ahead and make it a little bit easier for folks to see Or a little bit easier for me to see

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I suppose we can go ahead and blame me if we want to Blow the fonts up a little bit So we have at the beginning of Hebrews the beginning of the demonstration of the supremacy of Christ because remember what's

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What is this all about? Hebrews is about the fact That there's nothing to go back to There's nothing to go back to There's great pressure being put upon the

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Hebrew Christians to go back to worship in the temple to curse Christ you've joined a cult all this kind of stuff and The argument of Hebrews is there's nothing to go back to and so the first Demonstration of that Hebrews chapter 1 has numerous references to the deity of Christ So he is the radiance his glory the exact representation of his nature upholds all things by the word of his power

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When he made purification of sins, he sat down at the right hand of the majesty on high And become as much better than the angels as he has inherited a more excellent name than them

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And what name might that be? Well, we were gonna find out here and you'll notice the

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Nessie Island 28th edition over here in the Greek puts this in poetic form the

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NESB which I forgot to switch over the LSB because I The default hasn't been changed The NESB does not put it in that I would be interested in knowing what the

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LSB does with it But we can't worry about that right now. So then We have

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Four to which of the angels did he ever say so now now what you're going to be getting The NESB uses the blocks the block letters

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The Nessie Allen uses the italicized Greek letters for citations from the

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Old Testament specifically from the Greek Septuagint and Says for to which of the angels did he ever say?

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You are my son today. I have begotten you and so now we're getting these

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Old Testament citations and We're getting introductions so so for to which of the angels did he ever say so there's the introduction and then you've got the quotation and then notice here and Again, so he doesn't he doesn't have to repeat everything.

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He said up here. He doesn't have to say and To which of other angels did he again say or something like that?

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And again is all you need to then introduce the next citation and I'll be a father to him.

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He should be a son to me. So these are rhetorical questions. He never said these things to angels so whoever this is is above angels and what did what's the gradation of Beings that the

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Bible gives not not other religions and not intertestamental people and all the rest of stuff

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But the Bible Jesus for is in no man Knows the day or the hour angels

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Not even the son but the father right so you get men angels deity and So if he's above the angels then you can't have an angel

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Christology here and So no angel has ever heard God say to him.

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You are my son. I'll be a father to him He should be a son to me. So you have this Assertion being made and this is how you introduce it and again, and then you have the quotation now

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I Almost took the time but ran out of time. I was gonna pull up Vatican or Society Atticus something like that We can put it up there

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Italics block all this stuff is editorial The originals don't have that kind of stuff in it.

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I get that But this is very

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Helpful in understanding what's going on and You'd have to be able to argue against this. What would and again be if it's not

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Functioning as well. You got one citation here. And again, here's the next citation. That's that's how it's functioning

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And we're gonna find out here in a moment. That's rather important verse 6 and when he again brings the firstborn into the world the

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Prototokos right here for Tata Khan and he gives it if when he again brings firstborn in the world

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He says let all the angels of God worship So they all the angels of God are worshipping him.

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He can't be one of the angels of God if He's being worshipped by all the angels of God Then because they'd be worshipping himself that did come up in Revelation chapter 5.

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We're not doing that today, but that's where it comes from and so and he says then you have a quotation and Then he verse 8

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I'm sorry verse 7 and of the angels he says and so here's another he's so here's a he says here

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I'm not marking out yet because we're not down to the section we need to be but here's he says quotation and He says then quotation so he's being he's being consistent here

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Who makes his angels wins his ministers a flame of fire? And so we have introduction then citation introduction then citation

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So this is where it gets important verse 8 Pross I'm gonna go ahead and let me see here.

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Yeah Yeah, I guess I will I guess I sort of need to actually this is useless anyplace else

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So to the

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Sun prostate on we on but of the Sun he says and now we have entire quotation your throne your throne your throne

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Oh God is forever and ever now Jehovah's Witnesses and others will argue Well, I actually should be

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God is your throne forever and ever the righteous step to the step of his kingdom

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You can make a very strong argument for this understanding in the context. It's not directly relevant

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We're talking about here. What is relevant here is here is another introductory Yes, go away.

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Here's another introductory phrase but to the

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Sun and then here's the citation and The citation goes from verses 8 and 9

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You have loved righteousness hate lawlessness therefore God has christened anointed

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Christ there's what the term Christ comes from God has anointed you with the oil of gladness above your companions.

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And so here's the introduction and you can still see it down here verse 10,

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I'm gonna pull it up here and Now What is

49:38

Why is that relevant? Well, you'll see here so you've got the citation and It's down here over here.

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It hasn't gone up because there's still a little bit of chapter of verse 9 there and and You Lord in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth and so up above we had but to the

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Sun He says and then you just have this little word and just hanging out there

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No This there is no there is no and in Psalm 102 25, which is quoting so this and has to be explained and The vast majority of interpreters all recognize the same thing

50:28

This is the introduction to verse 10, but it's being drawn from back in verse 8 cross day tan we on to the

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Sun up here and then here's the end and this is also being said to the

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Sun and What is being said to the Sun is the citation from Psalm?

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102 25 27 you Lord in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth and heavens the works of your hands

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They will perish but you remain they will all become old like a garment like a mantle

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You will roll them up and they should and like a garment. They shall be changed But your years never end and you shall continue on this what it says down there.

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Now the point is this verse 12 then verses 10 11 and 12 quotation

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Psalm 102 and then verse 13

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Goes straight back to what but to which of the angels has it ever been said?

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Sit my right hand until I make it your enemies for still for your feet with the most The most central

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Christological text from Psalm 110 in the New Testament So there's been no break everything here is about the supremacy of Christ.

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He's above the angels and the Psalm 102 citation is plainly and clearly being applied to the

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Sun The context does not change verse 13 But to which of the angels so the contrast again the angels which we already saw above is continued

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Very very plain very very clear Are they not all ministering spirits sent out to render service for the sake of those who will inherit salvation

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So again, the Sun is of a different order than the created angels are

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Now why is any of this important? Well, how did Dale Tuggy tried to get?

52:38

Around this text evidently he recognizes He he recognizes that if this is about the

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Sun If You Lord in the beginning laid the foundation of the earth and the heavens are the works of your hands

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They will perish but you remain. This is about Yahweh and this is about Yahweh's unchanging nature

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So if this is addressed to the Sun in the very words that were applied to Yahweh The debates over and so what did he do?

53:25

Well, I think a lot of people have not seen you know I hadn't looked at this before didn't know exactly why he was saying what he was saying.

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But what he says is that Verses 10 through 12 are not about the

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Sun that leaves this word and just hanging out there.

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No explanation Why is it? Why is it there up above it had continued the introductory?

53:55

Scheme So I say this then I have a quote and then I say quote same things going on here

54:02

Verse 8 of the Sun he says 8 9 and verses 10 11 12. They're all about the

54:07

Sun That's the consistent way of reading Hebrews 1 but Unitarians don't believe what

54:14

Hebrews 1 is actually teaching and so verses 10 11 and 12 are all of a sudden turned into Something else

54:29

Now I had mentioned at one point Anthony buzzard Tries to say that What this is actually about it goes into chapter 2 and in chapter 2 it's a it's a new creation and It's it's about redemption and stuff like that.

54:49

The chapter 2 goes a completely different direction It it it it's actually a good chapter division because the subject changes the subject never changes here

54:59

This is all one continuous argument and verses 10 11 and 12 are directly addressed to the

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Sun and if that's the case then

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This is the Sun being identified as Yahweh Now we don't have one one advantage of that you would have and you need to know this

55:27

I wonder I it probably take too long to pull it up actually

55:38

But oh Maybe not. Let me look real quick and see if What do they call it

55:47

Uh, what do they call that now,

55:56

I don't want the Wikipedia I don't want Facebook Well, this is weird

56:06

You try to you try to just bring up there it is JW org Wow JW org is like the 10th thing you hit

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When When you search for when you search for JW org,

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I've that used to be watchtower. I forget what they did You know, I might be able to do this

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Okay, except except except fine 2013 edition

56:36

Well, they've got a study edition now I wasn't aware of that That's probably just a big brown one updated.

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I'm trying to bring up Hebrews 1 verse 10.

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Let's see what it's got Yep, okay.

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It's got marginal references. Maybe this will work Yep, look at that.

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All right, let me let me pull accordance down here and Let's put the watchtower

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Bible and tract society on the screen and here is New World Translation and At the beginning

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Oh Lord, you laid the foundations the earth the heavens will work your hands. They will perish so on so forth and this is in the

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Printed versions as well. It will be the little teeny tiny note It's with the references.

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Sometimes it's center. It's normally center column sometimes bomb the page depending on which printing but notice

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Hebrews 1 well at least 112 and I guess if you marginal references here.

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Yeah Hebrews 112 is the last one What what reference they give you? Psalm 102 25 to 27 so when the

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Jehovah's Witnesses come to your door and you Might want to get into this conversation with them their

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Bible will actually have The reference right there telling them the citation we're reading is from Psalm 102 so that's why

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I say When you're speaking to Jehovah's Witnesses get them to read

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Psalm 102 first from the New World Translation and Have them back up a few verses where the last occurrence of Yahweh is so that they're it'll it'll say

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Jehovah in their version obviously And ask them who's this about who is it that never changes who is it that Created the world by himself.

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Who has it that does not age and and and all the rest of these things

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Jehovah Jehovah Jehovah Jehovah, then when you take them to someone or two Make sure to read verse 8

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Also, he says about the angels quote quote quote quote quote quote quote quote quote quote quote quote and Quote quote quote quote quote quote so even the way that the

59:06

NWT punctuates Tells you that verses 10 and following are being applied to the

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Sun you get down to verse 12 you say What's that from and there's the reference Psalm 102 25 to 27 you told me

59:21

Psalm 102 25 to 27 is About Yahweh, it's about Jehovah. It's about Jehovah's unchanging nature and Yet the writer the

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Hebrews applies it to the Sun Now you don't have the same thing with a

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Unitarian that doesn't have a new world translation and did you catch what dr. Tuck He left the poor

59:45

Jehovah's Witnesses standing on the doorstep He I don't was it was it during the closings or was it during the

59:55

Q &A I think it was during the Q &A He made some kind of statement about the anti -intellectual

01:00:02

Jehovah's Witnesses and blah blah I mean he let him have it. He took a shot at him

01:00:07

I think maybe someone maybe mentioned the NWT during a Q &A a question.

01:00:13

I don't yeah, I think that's what it was. Yeah It's like I bet you they've

01:00:18

X'd him off there there was to then come to my house didn't come to his house But yeah, so there you go

01:00:24

You it's a good good reference to use a lot of people have used it very effectively in In talking

01:00:31

Jehovah's Witnesses, so I wanted to go through that Just simply to respond to that very unique argument that he made

01:00:39

So that you're aware of what that is. We're out of time rich, and I have to go do stuff And sweat and do things like that.

01:00:47

It's gonna be fun But it's gonna make it possible for us to get to Louisiana next month for the the debates down there

01:00:54

By the way if you're down that area Don't put it off too long. There's only so many seats in the church, so you need to get tickets

01:01:02

They're not expensive or anything the tickets are just simply so that you don't have 500 people staying outside rioting because they can't get in that's that's the fundamental reason for that But the link is at AOMin .org

01:01:14

right up front page There's a graphic there click on it takes you right to The website that the church has put up and don't put that off because I had a lot of people contacting me

01:01:26

I can't get into the debate, so it's like well. I'm sorry we've been telling everybody about him for a long time all right

01:01:31

The travel fund is at AOMin .org that link is at AOMin .org Thanks for watching the program.