God the Father & Son

Hi, and welcome to Midnight Cry, a program that is committed to speaking the truth in love.

I'm your host, Romul Ghassan, and today we have with us Dr. James White, who will be discussing with us the relationship between the father and the son.

First of all, welcome to the show, James. It's a true honor to be with you. Now, Muslims often bring to mind

John Chapter 5. For some reason, they want Christians to look at John Chapter 5.

Can you perhaps guide us through John Chapter 5 and show us some of the reasons and some of the argumentations that are caused through this chapter?

Normally, they're referring to Jesus' words in John Chapter 5, and he says, Truly, truly, I say to you, the son can do nothing of himself unless it is something he sees the father doing.

And they understand this to be, on Jesus' part, a repudiation of his own deity.

But I think if we will just allow the text to speak for itself, and I would invite my Muslim friends to,

I hope they have a Bible, I'll certainly read the text, but to listen to what Jesus is actually saying, I think they will find that the

Jesus speaking in John Chapter 5 is not Isa ibn Maryam from the Quran. It is the

Jesus of history, the Jesus of Christianity. What you have at the beginning of the chapter is

Jesus has healed a man, and it has taken place on the Sabbath. And as a result, the

Jews are persecuting him. And Jesus' response in verse 17 is very, very interesting.

He says, But he answered them, My father is working until now, and I myself am also working.

Now, people might not understand the significance of that. But the Jews believed that God continued to work on the

Sabbath day. He continued to make the sun to rise, he can keep the planets in their orbits, etc.,

etc. And so God had the right to work on the Sabbath day in maintaining his universe.

So when Jesus says, My father is working until now, and I myself am working in defense of his healing on the

Sabbath day, well, the Jews understand exactly what it is, that he is saying. So, verse 18 says,

For this reason, therefore, the Jews were seeking all the more to kill him, because he was not only loosing the

Sabbath, which would involve, I mean, the Sabbath is a commandment of God. So to loose the requirements of the

Sabbath, only God could do. He was not only loosing the Sabbath, but he was referring to the

Father, to God as his own Father, making himself equal to God.

Now some people would say, well, that's just a Jewish interpretation, and they were wrong. But clearly, the assertion is, they understood

Jesus' words of, I am working in the same way that my Father is working, as a claim to equality with God.

Now how does Jesus respond to this statement? How does Jesus respond to the idea, calling

God his own Father, making himself equal with God? That's what the rest of John chapter 5 is about.

And I would like to assert, and then prove from the text, that what Jesus does here, is he is balancing two claims.

The first claim is his own right to act in a divine fashion, and that is the deity of Christ.

I believe the deity of Christ will come out clearly in these texts. But there's also another concern on Jesus' part.

And that is, if the Jews were to misunderstand his claims, they could understand him to be saying that he has authority separate from the

Father, and in opposition to the Father. And so what Jesus wants to emphasize is the perfect unity of the

Father and the Son. The fact that the Son has come to do the will of the Father, he is revealing the

Father. Yes, all these things require him to be deity. But we also assert, as the

Bible asserts, the perfect unity that exists between the Father and the

Son. And that's going to come out in these words. So what does he say? Therefore Jesus answered and said to them,

Truly, truly, I say to you, the Son is not able to do anything, and the

Greek term is af healtu, by himself. So yes, he's not a maverick deity outdoing his own thing.

He does not do anything from himself except what he sees the

Father doing. So in other words, there is unity in the plan of God and the accomplishment of the work of God.

The Son just doesn't go off and do something by himself, separate from the Father, apart from the

Father, any more than the Father does anything apart from the Son or the Spirit or the Spirit does anything apart from the

Father and the Son. There is perfect unity between them. So it's important to allow that term to stand by itself.

So he sees the Father doing, for whatever the Father does, these things the

Son also does in like manner. He's talking about healing here. He's talking about giving life on the

Sabbath. He's talking about having the right to define these things. No mere human being would make this kind of statement.

And I think it's important, if I could just for a moment say something to the Christian audience, we often abandon some of the most important evidence for the deity of Christ because we do not see this kind of material.

What do I mean? If someone else presents a view of Jesus other than what we believe about Jesus, we have to hold them to the same standards that they're holding us to.

And so I want to ask someone else, if Jesus isn't truly God, then who speaks like this?

Does a mere man speak like this? Does an angel speak like this? Does a mere prophet speak like this?

You have to take into consideration everything Jesus says and give a full accounting of his own words in your view of who

Jesus is. I mean, if he was only a prophet, he would be committing blasphemy. Of course he would. Here's a prophet who says that whatever the

Father does, giving life, raising the dead, creation, maintaining the creation, please, the

Son also does in like manner. And how many times have I had people say, well,

Jesus didn't claim to be the Son of God. I heard a Muslim apologist on a TV show in the

United States saying, well, Jesus did not. These things the Son also does in like manner.

This is Jesus speaking of himself. For the Father loves the Son and shows him all things that he himself is doing.

And the Father will show him greater works than these so that you will marvel. For just as the

Father raises the dead and gives them life, and of course, who is the origin of life?

I mean, God is the one who gives life and God is the living God. So also the

Son, now look at this, so also the Son gives life to whom he wishes.

Now think about that for a moment. Not only does the Son give life, which is a divine prerogative, but there is a sovereignty in the

Son's so giving. Now that is an amazing statement. Notice again though, the

Father gives life, the Son gives life. Unity is the theme of John chapter 5, but in the process of speaking of that unity, you have a distinction of who the

Father is, a distinction of who the Son is. We're not saying the Father is the Son, we're not saying they're the same person, there's a distinction, they've taken different roles, and yet because of that unity, the

Son must be deity to be able to do the things he does. Can you imagine a prophet saying,

I give life to whom I will? No way. Can't be possible. It's not going to happen, that's pure blasphemy.

Then, for neither does the Father judge anyone, but he has given all judgment to the

Son. Now think about that from an Islamic perspective. What is one of the fundamental

Sunni beliefs? The day of what? Judgment. But who's doing the judging?

Allah does the judging. In fact, even that text we looked at in Surah 5, Surah 5, verse 16, is the day of judgment when

Allah says to Jesus, did you say to men, worship me and my mother as deities aside from Allah.

But here, Jesus says, the Father is not judging anyone, but he has given all judgment to the

Son so that, and there's a, it's called a Hinnah clause in Greek, in order that all may honor the

Son just as, kathos, they honor the Father.

Wait a minute, the honor that is due to the Father as holy judge is due to the

Son? Just as. Just as. How can this, it's cherry picking texts.

When you go to this text, oh the Son does nothing of himself, yeah, of himself, separate from the

Father. But listen to the rest of what Jesus' answer in this situation is. It is so clear, in order that all may honor the

Son just as they honor the Father. And then there is a, there's strong language here, there's strong language here.

The one not honoring the Son is not honoring the

Father who sent him. Now I want my

Muslim friends to hear those words. The one not honoring the Son, the

Muslim says, I'm honoring the Father. Because the Muslim makes the identification that the

Father is Allah. I'm honoring the Father. But Jesus says, if you, the one not honoring the

Son, and what's the one term that Islam says is not appropriately to be given to Jesus?

Son. That's right. The one not honoring the Son is not honoring the

Father who sent him. The point of the Christian proclamation is the Father and the

Son are a package deal. You can't have the one and not have the other.

And if you try to only have the one, you will not truly have him. That's what Jesus was saying to the

Jews in John 8, unless you believe that I am, you'll die in your sins. You think you're worshiping God? God has given the greatest and fullest testimony of himself in sending me.

You cannot reject me. In order that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father, if you don't honor the

Son, you're not honoring the Father. Truly, truly, I say to you, verse 24, that the one hearing my word and believing in the one who sent me.

It's fascinating how many times Jesus will switch back and forth. We have to believe in the one who sent me, we have to believe in him.

We have to believe in the one who sent me, we have to believe in him. Are we believing in multiple gods?

Or is our one faith toward God expressed in our recognition of the Father and the

Son? And this is brought about by the Spirit. Believing the one who sent me has, present tense, right now, eternal life and shall not enter into judgment, but has already passed out of death into life.

I once again, I can't get the image out of my mind. I think of those two men in that Jeep in Glasgow.

And I just say to myself, what if they understood the message of Jesus?

That the one who believes in him possesses now, not something just in the future, but possesses right now, eternal life and shall not come into judgment, but has already passed out of death into life.

Would they have been seeking to bring death to all those people? Or would they not have realized that that fear of judgment which was theirs, which could only be alleviated, they thought, by having the promise of paradise by dying in jihad.

Would that not, would this not directly show them that there was no need for that fear?

It's quite interesting as well that if our Muslim brothers and sisters were able to see that the guardians of the doctrine of the oneness of God were the

Jews at the time. And the religious elite, the Pharisees, the scribes, the lawyers of the time, they were the ones who were asserting the authority of the reality and the identity of God.

They were not going to allow for somebody to come onto the scene and equate himself with God.

And so the Muslim needs to be able to put themselves into the picture here and see that the very position that the

Jews of the time were taking is very similar to the position that they are taking now.

And these same words that you're declaring and proclaiming were not only to the Jews of the time, but they are to the

Muslims of today. Very much so. They are to the Muslims of today. If you will not honor the

Son as the Son, then the very means that God has provided for you to possess right now eternal life will not be open to you.

And James, can you explain to us, when we go off into eternity, who is the judge that we're going to meet?

I love the next verse because after telling us that we can have eternal life, the person who hears

Jesus's word, Jesus's word, think about that, hears my word and believes in him who sent me, my word, again, what mere prophet could say that?

Having said that, that we can have eternal life, not commit a judgment, then he says, Truly, truly, I say to you, an hour is coming and now is when the dead will hear the voice of whom?

The Son of God. The dead will hear the voice of the

Son of God. If there is no Son, then why even try to honor

Jesus when these are the words that he said? He identifies himself as the Son of God, and he says that an hour is coming when the dead will hear the voice of the

Son of God, and what will happen? Those who hear will live. What power.

What power. Resurrection power. And again, our Muslim friends agree with us.

This is only within the capacity, capability of Allah himself.

And yet it is the Son of God whose voice will be the very instrument of resurrection itself.

And then look at verse 20. If you want any illustration of why the Islamic use of John 5 is completely off -base, verse 26 will give it to you.

For just as the Father has life in himself, even so he gave the

Son also to have life in himself, and he gave him authority to execute judgment, because he is the

Son of Man. Now did you notice something? Son of God, Son of Man.

Now some people feel that Son of Man is just simply a statement that, well, Jesus is truly a human being.

And there is an element to the fact that Son of Man certainly does believe that he does communicate to us that he is truly human, which is what we believe.

We believe he is the God -Man. But Son of Man is a divine title. Remember in Mark chapter 14 when

Jesus said to the Jews, I am the Son of the Blessed One, and you will see the Son of Man coming upon the clouds, what was their response?

They tore their robes and said, what need is there of further witnesses? You've heard the blasphemy.

They understood. The prophet Daniel. Daniel chapter 7. Saw the Son of Man and saw that he was worshipped in the highest form of worship.

So here, Son of God, Son of Man used in one sentence the voice of the Son of God.

The Father has given life. He has given, even so he gave to the Son also to have life in himself.

What prophet could ever be the one in whom is found divine life itself?

Makes no sense. And do you give to a mere human being authority to execute judgment?

I cannot help but sit here and think of the hadith that we read in an earlier edition of the program where all of mankind comes to Jesus on the day of judgment, intercede for us, and he says, it's not for me.

That's not the Jesus of John chapter 5. He gave him authority to execute judgment because he's the

Son of Man. Do not marvel at this for an hour is coming in which all who are in the tombs will hear his voice.

Who's the one who resurrects the dead? Well, it's the Son of Man. They will hear his voice and will come forth, those who did good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Then this is another verse that they quote. I'm glad we got to it, so let's at least look at it because we don't have much time. I can do nothing on what?

My own initiative. But it's actually from myself. Again, same context we had before.

That is, separately from the Father. I am not a renegade deity out here doing my own thing.

I'm not trying to get you to worship me as if I'm separate from the Father.

There's one God that we worship. I am not able to do anything on my own initiative. As I hear,

I judge, and my judgment is just because I do not seek my own will but the will of him who sent me.

What was the will of him who sent me? According to John chapter 6, next chapter, he's going to tell us to be a perfect Savior.

He's going to do the Father's will. If I alone testify about myself, my testimony is not true.

There is another who testifies with me, and I know the testimony which he gives about me is true. He brings in the Father.

The Jewish concept of having more than one person testifying makes truth. What do we see in John chapter 5?

Let's summarize it. What do we see? We see Jesus healing on the Sabbath. He says, my

Father's working until now. I am working. The Jews realize he's claiming equality with God. He does not repudiate that claim.

He says, no, no, no, you're wrong. He does not say that. Instead, he corrects any misapprehension that could be made of that by constantly emphasizing the perfect harmony of the

Father and the Son, the roles they've taken. In the midst of that, he says, you must honor the

Son even as you honor the Father. The one not honoring the Son is not honoring the

Father. There is no way to say, oh, that's excess. Son of God, excess.

Son of man, excess. That's what the Koran says. The author of the Koran did not understand what is found in this text.

There is no evidence whatsoever that the author of the Koran ever heard these words, ever had these words explained, read in his hearing, exegeted, anything.

That's right. And what we're doing here is we're showing Jesus in quite a different light. Often we're talking about his humility.

Often we're talking about why he prayed and why he hungered and why he was in such a humble state and in a lowly mind.

But what we see here is the Son of Man as judge, as life giver.

These are things which only God can claim to himself. These are the attributes of God and God does not share these attributes with anybody else.

And it really, I think it's quite a serious thing that one day every single person will meet

Jesus the judge. If they have not taken themselves to bow in front of Jesus as Lord now, they will certainly meet him as their judge.

Yes, and they will not be ready for that encounter with him. Yes, that's exactly right. This very same

Jesus, and I say this to my Muslim friends once again, this very same Jesus, a few chapters later in the

Gospel of John, right before his betrayal, prays to the Father. And I want you to hear these words that he says in John 17, 5.

Now Father, and before I read it, I just want to ask my Muslim friends, could your

Jesus, could Issa bin Maryam say the following words, which were written long before Muhammad was ever born, ever said a word, half a millennium before that.

Listen to what Jesus says. Now Father, glorify me together with yourself, with the glory which

I had in your presence before the world was. Could the

Islamic Jesus say those words? The answer is clearly no.

Here is one who in prayer to God says, glorify me. What man can make that statement?

Glorify me together with yourself, unity, not separation, the glory of the

Son, the glory of the Father is one, with the glory I had with you before the world was.

Before creation, the Son knows he is glorious in the presence of the

Father. And now going back to that position, he says Father glorify me with the glory which

I once had in your position, in your presence. Those are the words of one who recognizes who he truly is.

And he is the one who said, unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins.

He must be honored. He must be believed. This is the Jesus of Scripture. And if your

Jesus is different than this Jesus, he's not the

Jesus of history. He's not the Jesus of the Bible. He's not the Jesus who gave salvation. Yes. I mean, this episode really gives reality to the verse of John 3, verse 16,

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life.

The reason why God did send the Son, the Son of authority, the

Son who is the life giver, the Son who has a relationship and a oneness with God, why he gave him is for what reason?

So that we might have eternal life. So that the triune God would be glorified in the salvation of a particular people.

And as Jesus himself said, if you believe my word and you believe upon him who sent me, you have eternal life as a present possession right now.

You shall not commit a judgment. You've already passed out of death into life. What a tremendous thing that Christians can rejoice in.

But what a tremendous message for anyone else that they can still turn to the Savior. They can still bow that knee and confess that Jesus Christ is

Lord and experience forgiveness and eternal life at his hand. That's right. While there's still time, come to him.

That's right. James, thank you for your time. Thank you very much. You've just been able to listen as James has gone and expounded the gospel of John and chapter 5.

Christians don't turn away from this chapter. They don't run away from the words which are written here.

What we've been able to discover is this really shows who he is. That he is in harmony with God.

That he is God. That he is the Son of God. We hope that this was a challenge to your heart and that if you do not know him, that you might come to know him through a relationship, a personal relationship in Jesus Christ.

May God bless you and please stay in tune for the very next episode of Midnight Cry.