We finally finished up the Madrid debate from 1993!

Opening Banter and Upcoming Debates

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James white director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now at 602 -973 -4602 or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 -877 -753 -3341. And now with today's topic here is James white.

And good morning, welcome to the dividing line back here in Phoenix, Arizona, I thought it worked out very well last week That we were able to use Skype and continue to do the program even though I was on the road didn't say much about where I was.

Because I don't know, you know when you're away, it's best talk about after you get back I guess but I Was that not so much a conference as a get-together? I guess you might say Along with a number of folks.

I mentioned Gary DeMar and his wife Last time and I also got to meet a gentleman by the name of Tim Janice now, forgive me sometimes, you know, I'm a little focused on things and I missed some of the stuff going on in the world.

I did not know who Tim Janice was. I'm sorry for those of you who are going how can you not know who Tim Janice is? But the rest of you who were like me don't know who Tim Janice is. We're at this little get-together beforehand.

I had just been Chatting Steve camp was there and so Steve and I were talking max he's always had a Mac and was congratulating me on my my freedom my exaltation into true computing and I Mean, I gotta admit you've seen those new Microsoft commercials where they're saying nothing about their product.

All they're saying is I'm a PC and that's all they can say. They can't say and I work. It's it's just it's just really bad logic and it's really bad advertising so Rich pointed me to the new Mac commercial where PC is sitting up this money over a big pile for advertising.

And then finally just put all in advertising. That was a that was very good program. But anyway So camping I were talking talking max and then I went over to say hi to a Tom Askell and To make some comment about Sparky and since we can do that now and He's feeling fine now.

So Everyone's coming up with all the electrified jokes that they can come up with for for brother Tom. Because we're also proud to know someone who has eaten that many millions of volts and lived as all about it.

So anyway, then Michael Fallon introduced me to Tim Janice and these two young ladies and I'm just like hi, you know I mean, all right, I didn't know and the two ladies of course were Ellie and cinnamon and found out that campy and Tim we're both having the same computer problem at the hotel.

We were at they couldn't send mail out. I was fine because I have my Mac set up to use I don't know how many different SMTP servers I have access to but I was I was working fine. So I said, well, why don't you come up to my room?

Well, well, I'll show you how I've got set up. So you guys, you know, so Steve camp and Tim Janice and now that I know the Tim Janice ensemble Came up to my room. We're just we're just talking Apologetics we're talking debates.

We're talking Macs and SMTP servers and stuff like that and I have no idea the next night's the big get-together. And this this this gorgeous dinner and we're all making presentations and stuff and about halfway through here comes the Tim Janice ensemble and I am blown away just just Ellie plays violin.

Cinnamon is a student at Gordon-Conwell and a flautist. But also plays the tin whistle and stuff like that and I was just absolutely transfixed. Let me let me just play just a segment here. I've been picking up music right and left.

But this is that would be a cinnamon on the. And there's Ellie, this is the Tim Janice ensemble from his Beautiful America Album, and so I was like wow, that's utterly incredible. Let's have lunch and let's let's talk and stuff like that.

And so we we got together and it was Plugging this in there we go. And so anyway also there for the weekend was gentlemen, some of you may have heard of I don't know but You know guy named RC Sproul was there and some of his staff and so I was asked Saturday night just sort of The discussion had happened months and months before and we thought my recollection was we thought that my travel plans were going to preclude this.

But there was going to be a service on Sunday morning. And so Saturday evening. I was asked to speak The service and so I had 21 minutes to fit a sermon in RC opened the service and prayer Steve camp and Ellie and cinnamon Played and led in worship and then I preached and then Steve closed with holy holy holy and it is Interesting.

I do not consider myself much of a preacher. So there is a little added Pressure when RC Sproul is sitting on the front row when you're speaking. Especially when you got word that you would be speaking the night before and you don't even have a Bible with you.

So you have to use your computer. Which is what I did. So all that worked out real well, so we had a had a great time and I'm really excited about Getting to know new folks and things like that and while I was there thankfully I Had full and high-speed internet access not only so we could do the dividing line, but also so we could get the final Things worked out for London.

I mean we better get them worked out. I leave a week from Thursday. So I posted on the blog what we are looking at for.

London and.

We now have the locations for those of you in the UK. You have the locations of the debates. Tuesday, November 11th 730 at Westburn Park Church in Portia on Port Chester Road in London I will be debating Adnan Rashid.

The subject does belief in the Trinity necessitate Shirk does believe in the Trinity necessitate Shirk. You have never heard a debate on the subject. I made it up I came up with this subject. It obviously is an opportunity to address the question Does the Quran? accurately represent the doctrine of the Trinity and What is it specifically that is condemned?

What is the excess in your religion that is condemned within the pages of the Quran? And what is the doctrine of the Trinity? Is it association of creatures with Allah? Is it association of the created order with the uncreated God and.

So that will be an excellent time. 730 p .m. Tuesday, November 11th. On Thursday, November 13th, I'll be debating Sami Zaatari Jesus divine son of God or prophet of Allah. That's a Trinity Road Chapel Trinity Road upper tooting in London.

The contact information is available. People have asked will there be? Charged for access. Well, there might be and here's why Arabic Christian perspective is going to be videotaping these and If you know what it costs to just just to buy Tapes for this many debates because they're not only taping mine.

They're taping David Woods. So, I mean, I don't know how many you're talking a lot of work a lot of transportation a lot of packing up setting up Expensive equipment, etc, etc. So there might be a small couple pound charge or something like that just to help cover that so that others other than those just there that evening will be able to have Professional grade videotaping.

I was a little concerned about that. I gotta admit I mean, I was gonna be bringing my little Casio cameras just in case, you know, and at you know might work. But it's it's a whole lot easier To look at a professionally done Presentation.

I hear a lot of popping and stuff in the background. You catch that same thing. Oh, okay. There we go. Is it the computer? Yes, I am. That's as tight as it goes anyway, so there might be a small charge along those lines just simply so that we can have the video and have this for years and years to come because I think it's very very important and so There might be some a door charge there for that.

But I want to thank George Saig and the folks at Arabic Christian perspective. They do a great job in recording these things and Making them available for not just the audience. It was there but for a much wider audience if you've seen the Professional version of the Jalal Abram debate in comparison to the little handheld cam that I had you can see why it's really nice to have have something like that there, so Might want to mention that then of course on Monday the 17th of November now on the same Thursday I am going to be on the unbelievable radio program I'm not sure with whom yet because we're not sure exactly what topic yet That's still a little bit up in the air.

I had initially wanted to do There was a BBC Discussion Article that came out last month on Codex Sinaiticus. It was horribly written. I blogged on it Demonstrated just the just the holes in this thing was spun so badly and all they did was you know quote Bart Ehrman and stuff like that, and they don't give the whole story and.

So I.

Want to be on with Abdullah al-yusufi Abdullah of London on the subject of Codex Sinaiticus. And because Abdullah and his friend Issa and the other gentleman involved with their YouTube website make a lot of wild claims about the text of the New Testament and I thought it'd be a wonderful opportunity to See if those claims actually stand up when you actually got somebody right there sitting next to you with a critical edition of the Greek New Testament and who actually knows a little something about textual criticism, but Abdullah Says he's speaking on a number of other subjects that time.

He doesn't really have time to prepare for something like that, and he would rather talk about the Trinity. So we'll see what ends up working out. That's one of the things that was going on this morning as we're currently discussing that but that'll be on I don't know if that's live.

I'm not sure if we just record that and it plays later. I just don't know I've not asked about that so then finally on Monday the 17th of November. And I have not mentioned the preaching that I'm doing at both Trinity Road Chapel and Edmonton Baptist Chapel.

But that's listed in the article on the blog on Monday 17th, November 7 30 p .m. Twin Holm Baptist Church, Fulham Cross Lily Road in Fulham, London. I will be debating Shabir Ali is Jesus prophesied in the Old Testament and is Muhammad prophesied in the Bible.

That'll be a two-part debate. It'll really sort of be two debates, but we're doing them all at the same time so who knows even how to count that but anyway, that will be on Monday the 17th of November and Then I fly out the very next morning what's left of me.

Hopefully over the next couple of days recover and then on Thursday, November 20th will be the debate with Zulfiqar Ali Shah at to Duke University. Again, that's one of the banner ads right on the front page the information available for that there.

So that is finally all put together and I've also put David's David Woods debates. There'll be going on on November 15th the satanic versus Fabricated or historical David Wood versus Adnan Rashid. I don't think I've ever heard a debate on the satanic verses so that will be very very useful and Then that's 1030 MC David, like I said doesn't sleep eat or drink that's why he probably is a Cylon or something along those lines and Because 1030 a .m. They do that debate and then 1 30 p .m.

Which is about when I would be shutting down getting ready for a nap or something. We have the biblical Jesus why we chose to accept and reject. That's Yahya Haider Seymour versus David Wood. At the same location and so two debates in one day.

That's I did it a few weeks ago, but that's not my preferred way of doing things. But like I said David superhuman and on Sunday, he'll be debating Adnan Rashid peace and violence and Christianity. And Islam so it's going to be a very intense week.

Starting on Tuesday and going through Monday. So seven full days. With a lot going on there in London so hope you will be praying for that as well as what then takes place afterwards the the truth war Conference going on in Durham lots and lots of stuff going on.

And oh did I mention we have a conference and a cruise? Coming up in January. There is still time an opportunity for you to go with us. I know that some people have had to cancel their plans to go with us.

Unfortunately, some of that has to do with the the economy the economy seems to be hitting some people but not other people it all depends. I know what your what your business is and what area it's in and things like that.

Some people are making a killing right now it's just you know, how things how things work and. But there are still openings if you would like to go with us on The cruise the conference the debate with Bart Ehrman all those things coming up in January as well.

And I just might want to throw out I've sort of noticed a pattern when you start. Getting more and more contacts from a number of different directions. About a certain possibility of a debate in the future.

It sort of reaches a critical mass and eventually something starts to develop. One of the individuals that I have wanted to debate for quite some time and I believe Would be an excellent debate primarily in the sense of correcting some.

Basically is put this way if if Ahmed D dot said it there are a lot of people who think that settles it and there are a lot of people who have basically picked up his banner repeat his material ad nauseam and and That kind of a representation needs to be refuted.

I have spent a lot of hours in this program demonstrating the many errors of Ahmed D dot and His primary student I would say in the world today who has become probably the most famous of the Islamic debaters is a man by the name of dr. Zakir Naik and One of his primary students was going to come to the United States.

We were hoping to line up some debates next September, but they can't get a any of the Muslims to support coming and so In response to an email that mentioned that just this morning. I said look I'll go to India.

We can raise funds. I'll go to India. They can arrange security and Make sure it's more than one debate. So that something meaningful can be accomplished. I want to debate Zakir Naik he is considered to be the the leading apologist many of his followers feel he is absolutely undefeatable and I see him as doing nothing more than what Ahmed D dot did his factual errors on the Greek New Testament the history of the Christian faith the doctrine of Trinity are basic and fundamental and easily refuted and so I know friends who go to India every January and so I said to him.

Hey. Would he be willing to debate in January of 2010. I Would give me enough time to set up a fund start taking donations basically because it ain't cheap to get to India. But I will go there if you won't come here I'll go there as long as we can make sure it'll be videotaped and that we will get hold of those videotapes.

Which in and of itself is one of my biggest concerns to be perfectly honest with him then I'll go there and We'll we'll he debates in front of thousands and anytime he does something like that There's thousands of people just fill stadiums and so fine.

If that will assist in. Again, the primary reason I think about this is his material is probably the most widely distributed of anybody's especially amongst The the Muslims outside of Arabic speaking countries, which is where most Muslims are.

Remember only about 19 of the world's Muslims are Arabic. The majority of the world's Muslims are in Indonesia and So his stuff is very popular in that area. Therefore to debate him is to provide a refutation of the most common attacks being used against our brothers and sisters in Christ in other in other areas, so You know, I could leave I could learn to live on protein bars for a week or so.

Because that's what I need to do. But yeah, I I'm not a world traveler in that sense. I don't like that a whole lot. I really don't much more comfortable right here and in my own my own routine in my own area, but there are more important things in that so Be praying that an opportunity will come up to allow me to debate Zakir Naik if he won't leave India, then What's if the mountain won't come to Muhammad and Muhammad the mountain and all that stuff?

That's not sure that we want to use that kind of illustration in that in that context, but So pray toward that end. We will certainly want to try to put something like that together. All right with that.

I do want to finish up the Patrick Madrid debate Today. I think that would be a good thing to do and all we have left is Patrick's closing statement when I was away, I played my closing statement and.

I.

You know what I criticized myself where I played it and then I listened to it it wasn't as bad as I remember. I Didn't spend as much time on Second Thessalonians 2 15 as I had remembered and I did more summarizing than I had remembered.

So it wasn't quite as bad as I thought but I think I would probably do it differently today. Anyway, but anyway, we played my closing statement. So now we need to play Patrick's closing statement and after this we will be done with this debate and Algo, we'll have nothing to look forward to so he's gonna have a blue Christmas, but May may we'll move on to another debate that he likes or something like that at that point.

But let's start listening to Patrick Madrid's closing statements. I'd like to.

Patrick Madrid on Sola Scriptura and the Canon

Close my remarks with a word of thanks First of all to all of you for your patience in this warm room the still air. I know it's been uncomfortable for all of us. But I I'm grateful for your sitting here and being willing to wade through all of these arguments.

I'd also like to thank you pastor Wagner. I know that Hospitality is so hard to come by these days and I appreciate you inviting us into your church this evening. I need to cover a couple of Points of old business before I move into my formal remarks.

First of all, I want to clarify something that I think mr White misunderstood. I did not earlier in the debate issue a challenge to him for another debate. And I don't want him or anyone else to make the mistake of thinking that I am thundering challenges to debate.

Well, you know that was pretty odd because he did say earlier that we could debate that at another time. It certainly sounded. You know, it didn't sound like a thundering debate challenge. But there were a couple of times when he made Statements that certainly sounded like he'd be willing to do that and I'm not sure why he wouldn't be willing to do that because again if he's going about telling everybody how He has won these debates and how they've been very clear and so on so forth.

Not quite sure why my phone is so silent When it comes to arranging these things. Because I think it would be useful to demonstrate to people just how wrong I am. With a more regular basis, but that just hasn't been.

What's what's happened.

I said earlier that that issue that we had talked about could be debated at a future point. But I didn't specify by whom so please don't misunderstand that remarks.

I think it might be to be able somebody else but not to be by me.

Like it. Second of all I Have not gone after all sorts of other issues. If you remember I am NOT the one who brought up the chair of Moses. I am NOT of the one who brought up tradition. I am NOT the one who brought up the church contradicting itself.

I. I am NOT the one who brought up tradition. Excuse me. What?

Okay, I'm not the one who brought up any of those things. Mr. White did. None of those things have to do with whether or not the Bible teaches solo scriptura.

Just just think for a second. Think about everything. He has said all of his arguments against solo scriptura and now try to fit in that. Oh, but traditions are relevant to whether solo scriptura is true or not.

Excuse me. How can you even begin to make sense of what Roman Catholicism teaches on that subject? If you do not include the subject of tradition.

I.

I'm sorry he.

Obfuscated. I'm afraid he brought up issues which he claims are related to whether or not the Bible teaches solo scriptura. But I don't think they are and yet the fundamental issue that has to On which his his position has to pivot is can you tell me with a certainty what the Bible is?

Now think with me for just a moment. He now says that his central argument was the canon of Scripture. When did he raise the issue of the canon of Scripture. Was his opening statement? No, what was in his opening statement.

Historical issues in tradition? Was it in his rebuttal period? No, it was not in his rebuttal.

Well.

Actually it was at the end of his rebuttal period after I've already had my opening statement and my first rebuttal and Now he wants the audience to actually believe. Now I think this is a tactic. I do believe this is a tactic.

I Think is a tactic to try to make the audience focus upon The issues you brought up at the end of the debate rather than the substance of your debate. Which didn't work for you very well because remember I presented Material and the best that Patrick had to do was to say well, that's just Protestant Bible scholars.

We don't have to worry about them. They're just biased. I'm not gonna give you any specifics in response, but that's just just the way it is and so he brings it up as At the end of his his his rebuttal period when there's no more positive presentation time there at all and now in the closing statement it is the heart of his argumentation if It was the heart of his argumentation should have been the first thing he brought up.

But it wasn't he managed to go for 20 minutes without ever mentioning Now is that just Confused thinking or is that a specific tactic? Well given the repetitive nature of its use by Catholic answers, I think it's a specific tactic.

Mr. White has failed utterly failed to give us an answer as To what his reason is for knowing?

That those 27 books belong in the New Testament now remember for a Roman Catholic utterly failed means he failed to agree with me. Doesn't matter if he gave a more historically consistent answer. It doesn't matter if he avoided The circularity of the Roman position which says we know these books are scripture because Rome tells us to how do we know Rome could?

Tell us to because Rome has the authority to we have a bigger bat than you do. You know the idea used to be we burn you if you don't. You know that type of situation during the Inquisition, but? You know ignore all of that and just redefine this as well.

You give me no no answer at all and My answer is I'm right because I say so it's a Dixit we are Rome. Rah-rah.

Oh, we're not talking about the canon of the Old Testament. Mr.. White. We all know that there's a dispute on that issue. Let's do on the issue that we do agree with the 27 books of the New Testament.

Why does does does Patrick want to avoid? That issue. Because he knows that the Protestant has the stronger position to begin with on the issue of that. He can't let that come in. He can't let that come in because now he has to defend his position Historically and step off of the nice simple authoritarian argument that he's trying to use here Against sola scriptura on a different issue called the canon of scripture which he brought up only toward the end of his period.

He has not answered that question. Don't forget that mr.. White likes to in his closing remarks Say that I did not stick to the issue and that I did not deal with his Translation or interpretation of 2nd Timothy 3 16 and 17.

I did deal with it.

I did not say he did not deal with it. I said he could not respond to it. I do not believe simply saying well those just Protestant scholars, but that's not true. First of all the sources I was citing include committees that have Roman Catholic scholars on them as well.

And If he was going to in a formal debate if you're going to try to argue against someone's presentation of a fact you have to prevent present facts. You can't just simply dismiss The sources that were used when you cannot even demonstrate the existence of bias in those lexical sources in this particular situation.

So he failed completely to respond to that in a meaningful Fashion just simply saying well James bought his Greek Texans lexicons tonight, but I brought the Bible. Okay, if you want to think that's a response if you want to think that has some substance to it, okay fine.

But don't expect logical and rational thinking people to agree with you on that.

And if he's fond of saying roll the tapes back to yourself and look at what I said Yes, and look at how I showed that he was misapplying The meaning he was missing. He was seeing a meaning in 2nd Timothy 317.

It's not there.

But he was. And how did you do that by referring to other texts that I demonstrated did not even use the same? Terminology syntactical parallels or anything else like that. And he could not respond. He could not read the language.

He can he can try to bluster all he wants. He did not respond to those issues in any.

Meaningful scholarly saying that it implies that the man of God is sufficient yet He excludes the role of the church in helping that man of God properly use that equipment that he's given. Oh, yes, I did answer that question.

I did deal with that verse and mr.. White can say anything he wants. But really the burden of proof tonight is not on me or him. It's on you. Because you're the one that has to stand before God someday.

You're the one who has to be judged on the basis of whether or not you accepted his word or rejected it. Now catch that.

Accepted his word or rejected it. And it's quite painfully obvious that for Patrick Madrid. That's not just the Bible. That's Rome's interpretive authority and dogmatic teachings. There's no question about that.

We're gonna take our break and then come right back finish up this portion. Maybe your phone calls to eight seven seven seven five three three three four one. We'll be right back.

Today many stop strong and true.

And.

Public crimes the criminal mishandling of God's Word may be James White's most provocative book yet. White sets out to examine numerous crimes being committed in pulpits throughout our land every week as he seeks to leave no stone unturned.

Based firmly upon the bedrock of Scripture one crime after another is laid bare for all to see. The pulpit is to be a place where God speaks from his word. What has happened to this sacred duty in our day?

The charges are as follows. Prostitution using the gospel for financial gain pandering to pluralism cowardice under fire felonious isagesis entertainment without a license and Cross-dressing ignoring God's ordinance regarding the roles of men and women is a public crime occurring in your town.

Get pulpit crimes. In the bookstore at a omen org. Alpha and Omega ministries is pleased to introduce the Christmas morning CD by Todd Lindstrom. Passion and peace are what sets Todd's music apart from others.

These 12 instrumental favorites will bless and inspire you as you entertain guests and spend a Christmas morning with your family. You can find this beautiful music that celebrates the birth of our Lord in the bookstore at a omen org.

What is dr. Norman Geisler warning the Christian community about in his book chosen, but free a new cult secularism. False prophecy scenarios. No, dr. Geisler is sounding the alarm about a system of beliefs commonly called Calvinism.

He insists that this belief system is theologically inconsistent. Philosophically insufficient and morally repugnant. In his book the potter's freedom. James White replies to dr. Geisler, but the potter's freedom is much more than just a reply.

It is a defense of the very principles upon which the Protestant Reformation was founded. Indeed it is a defense of the very gospel itself in a style that both scholars and laymen alike can appreciate.

James White Masterfully counters the evidence against so-called extreme Calvinism. Defines what the reformed faith actually is and concludes that the gospel preached by the reformers is the very one taught in the pages of Scripture.

The potter's freedom a defense of the Reformation and a rebuttal to Norman Geisler's chosen. But free you'll find it in the reformed theology section of our bookstore at a omen org. Hello everyone, this is Rich Pierce.

In a day and age where the gospel is being twisted into a man-centered self-help program. The need for a no-nonsense presentation of the gospel has never been greater. I am convinced that a great many go to church every Sunday yet.

They have never been confronted with their sin. Alpha Omega Ministries is dedicated to presenting the gospel in a clear and concise manner making no excuses. Man is sinful and God is holy. That sinful man is in need of a perfect Savior and Jesus Christ is that perfect Savior?

We are to come before the Holy God with an empty hand of faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Alpha and Omega takes that message to every group that we deal with while equipping the body of Christ as well.

Support Alpha and Omega Ministries and help us to reach even more with the pure message of God's glorious grace. Thank you.

After the Break: London, Manuscripts, and a Cruise

And welcome back to the dividing line Lord willing this afternoon finishing up The final additions to the second edition of the Potter's freedom get that sent out and have that out of the way as well.

When will these be available? I imagine the Potter's freedom will be available much faster than King James only controversy according to Amazon. The second edition the King James only controversy is due February 1st.

I am very thankful to announce that the last graphics I was waiting for arrived yesterday super high-definition pictures from the 1555 Stephanus text and from the Bishops Bible as I recall and I think there was a Coverdale scan in there as well great stuff to demonstrate the truth about Revelation 16 5 and those will be added to the text of the King James only controversy as well and So I'm very excited about that.

So that's wrapped up. I should wrap up the Potter's freedom today. That'll leave me without distraction Lord willing going into the London debates and I want to get back from that. I do have one trip to st. Louis first weekend in December.

Everyone in st. Louis who cares which is a fairly small number. Knows that first weekend in December for I think seven years running now. I have Been there in st. Louis at same church, and I'm gonna be talking about New Testament reliability and the manuscripts of the New Testament and all sorts of cool stuff like that.

Coming up there in st. Louis first weekend in December and then I don't have anything Other than preaching here in at Phoenix for maps Church Until the airmen debate and I'm gonna keep it that way. Because I want to be exceptionally well prepared and focused and I really enjoy this kind of study.

I really do on the plane. Going going to where I was going. I was reading about ancient manuscripts of the Quran and on the way back I was reading Comfort's book on encountering New Testament manuscripts and you know.

Most people would find this stuff just really boring but I think it's awesome to be reading about each one of the papyri and exactly what they contain and and where they were found and where they're housed and what their textual nature is and special things about them that.

And the range of dates by the way. You know, there's there's there's a lot of scholars that feel that the all in dates that are found the back of the Nessie 27th edition are very are way too conservative.

There's there's a whole body of scholarship that feels that there are a number of papyri manuscripts that are actually earlier than p52 that actually go into the first century the first century after the time of the writing of the New Testament manuscripts and so It's just exciting stuff to be looking at that and this incredible availability of stuff.

I I even Where did I find that? Was it I think it was in one of my RSS feeds while I was away. I found oh, no. No, you know what? It was someone who used to be associated with this ministry long long ago.

Who sent me a link to free PDF books online and one of them was an excellent work on.

Early.

Papyri manuscripts with high definition pictures in them of the various manuscripts and it was Really really neat to be able to grab that kind of stuff. I I look at my my Mac these days and I and I I realize that there is more.

There are more volumes of literature on that single unit than most Ancient libraries could have contained. Think about that. I think that's what Tim Challis is referring to as data fog.

We're just.

None of us have got the gray matter to keep up with all the stuff that's out there. We just it just ain't possible. But if you want to find out about an area, man, is it available these days? Well, anyway boy talk about wandering off someplace.

Let's continue with Patrick Madrid's closing statement because I want to get this done today.