Primary & Secondary Issues

Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry coming to you from Bethlehem Bible Church in West Boylston. No Compromise Radio is a program dedicated to the ongoing proclamation of Jesus Christ based on the theme in Galatians 2, verse 5, where the Apostle Paul said, �But we did not yield in subjection to them for even an hour, so that the truth of the gospel would remain with you.

In short, if you like smooth, watered-down words to make you simply feel good, this show isn�t for you. By purpose, we are first biblical, but we can also be controversial. Stay tuned for the next 25 minutes as we�re called by the Divine Trumpet to summon the troops for the honor and glory of her King.

Here�s our host, Pastor Mike Abendroth. Welcome to No Compromise Radio, a ministry.

Primary, Secondary, and Tertiary Issues in Theology

It�s about time Pastor Steve is back in the house. Pastor Steve Cooley, the Tuesday Guy, welcome. Thank you. Thank you very much for having me. Question number one, would it be okay for a Christian to be in politics?

Just kidding. Just kidding. Let me think about that one. Anything new in your life? What�s going on? Anything new in my life? Good news regarding your wife and cancer treatment follow-ups, right?

Well, yeah. I mean, she�s on a medication called Tegresso, which is a mere $15 ,000 a month. And uh... Hello. Hello. And yeah, the first test was very good. I mean, had very positive results. So she goes in on Monday for a full CAT scan, and the doctor said we should expect similar results then.

So we�re optimistic for now. We�re just taking it day by day.

Those things make time slow down. Yeah, they do. Yeah. You�re just thinking, okay, today versus, oh, next week in five months or 10 years.

I mean, we do have, you know, some short-term things that we�re looking forward to. I mean, we have a family vacation coming up and things like that. But you know, overall, yeah, it�s just day by day, and you just realize how every single day is just a blessing, and you know, we need to enjoy the time that we�re given.

I mean, it�s one thing to say life is a vapor and to think about it, well, you know, yes, that is true. But then it�s also to realize what a blessing, you know, each and every day is, because each and every day is, his mercies are new.

What�s Psalm 90? You know, we always count our birthdays, right? I�ll be 62 next week, and we�re to count our days, I think the psalmist said.

Yes, and I�m working on day number, oh, okay, never mind.

Did you know at the end of every one of the books in the psalms, right, there are five books, it ends with a doxology?

So that�d be a good thing to look up. That�d be a very, that sounds like a good Sunday night.

I know, I know. I heard it from somebody, maybe Robert Godfrey, and I looked it up, and I go, that is true. Every book ends in a psalm, I mean, in a doxology. Well, today on No Compromise Radio, Pastor Steve and I want to talk about first-level issues in theology, second-level issues, third-level, what do we call this, primary, secondary, and tertiary.

I know. I know. I think one of Paul�s amanuensis, one of his scribes, I think he used to name something like that, Tertiarius.

Sounds like a good Greek name, though, doesn�t it? My good friend, Tertiarius.

What would his name be, Tertius, or something like that? Turtle man. Certainly not Tartarus. Anyway, obviously, everything in the Bible is important. Is that true? I think so.

Otherwise, it wouldn�t be there. But everything is not equally important.

That�s right. So even 1 Corinthians 15, �I deliver to you Paul said, �I deliver to you as of first importance. Right? The gospel that Jesus, actually it says Christ, the Messiah, He died for our sins, was buried, was raised, appeared, ascended, et cetera.

That�s the most important message, because that�s the most important need we have is to get rid of our sins. Right? Yes. Absolutely. So that�s at the top. And then there are secondary issues and tertiary issues.

And here�s the premise for the day. Steve, why do you think in evangelicalism it is so easy to say, �This person agrees with me on a tertiary issue, but the primary issues that they believe in poorly don�t matter.

In other words, let�s just use an example. Somebody is anti-woke. And so we like that, right? Are we woke? No. Okay. Do we believe in CRT? No. I think that�s the initials of Carl Truman, though.

I don�t know his middle name. Oh, well, then I believe in Carl Truman. He exists. He teaches in a school in Pennsylvania, where my nephew�s just graduating, as a matter of fact. Seriously.

Yeah. Okay. I noticed that Grove City put together a big independent report on how they�re not woke, right? Remember there were some accusations? Yeah. Yeah. So see how this all relates? Mm-hmm. People are pro or people are anti-CRT, anti-woke, but let�s say they don�t have the right view of the Trinity, but we still exalt them.

We still promote them. We still go to their conferences. What do you think the psychology is behind that? What�s the reason why?

Well, I think there are a couple of reasons, I mean, that spring to mind. One is we live in the Twitter world, Facebook world, social media world. So to just be affirmed in our worldview makes us feel better, right?

I think that�s part of it. I think even listening to them I think sometimes can just be affirming, again, sort of in the world where so many things that are obviously true to us seem counterfactual to the world.

So it�s just good to hear those truths. I mean, look, if a Roman Catholic or some other religion, a Mormon or whatever, is saying the things that we agree with, sometimes it�s just easy to kind of go, �Well, I can relax a little bit because somebody agrees with me.

I�m not alone. So there�s that perspective, I think.

Right. And Steve, do you think that this is a possibility? Somebody we don�t know their theology well because we love celebrities and somebody�s got a platform and they put a book out against some cultural issue that we would agree with.

But then we start digging a little bit deeper and we move past celebrity, they�re just famous, they look good, they�ve got a big platform, a lot of followers, got a big position at some church or seminary, and we start digging deeper and we go, �Oh, they believe in eternal functional subordination.

They believe in eternity past in the nature of the triune Godhead, His nature, ontologically speaking. The Son is subordinate and the Father is always superior. And we go, �Hmm, that�s not orthodox Christianity.

And now we know and now it�s almost too late because we like that person and he was against the cultural things we were against.

But I think it even goes beyond that because I think that the church at large, I think most of our congregations, maybe even many pastors, wouldn�t know what those issues are that you�re even talking about.

I mean, you know, in other words, if we live in a world, and we do, where somebody like John Hagee can gain popularity because he�s pro-Israel, right? And we all, I think to some extent, we like Israel.

So then, you know, it takes a little bit of digging to understand that he�s an absolute heretic, right? So I think if something that easy, I mean, I get people who ask me from time to time, �What do you think about John Hagee

And they�re in favor of him. And I�m like, �Okay, if they don�t get that part, then other people who vary from historical Christianity at more subtle points, right, that�s just going to blow right back past people.

They�re not going to get it at all. Mike, you even brought Steve Cooley on No Compromise Radio. Steve, I found the verse, Romans 16, verse 22, �I, Tertius. T-E-R-T-I-U-S. I was close.

It could be Tertius. I�ve heard it, you know, both ways.

This is kind of like, you know, people are called Trey, right? Because they�re the third. Here, I�m the third who wrote this letter, �Greet you in the Lord. So you know what we should do? Remember, our old pastor would say things like, �Well, who wrote Romans

And then the person would say, �Paul. Well, what about the Holy Spirit? And now we can say, �What about Tertius They took turns writing. I mean, he said it right here. He writes it here as a scribe or secretary of the letter.

I think here�s another illustration, Steve, an example. People like Moscow, Idaho, and St. Andrews, and Canon Press, and Christ Church, and they like Doug Wilson, Blog and May Blog, because he writes well, he�s interesting, et cetera.

And he�s for our Republican Judeo-Christian rights or something. And so we say, well, we like him because he�s a cultural warrior.

Pete Yeah, he has our worldview and, you know, all the peccadilloes of everything that�s gone on up there. And somehow those just kind of get steamrolled because they�re not important because he�s on our side.

Well, to me, this is one of these primary, secondary, tertiary frameworks that I look through with the evangelical world and say to myself, well, he�s kicked out of his denomination years ago for denying sola fide, although he gives, you know, I believe it kind of thing.

But still, I�ll trust the churches that did all the work, the Presbyterian churches and Naparks, different, you know, associations. And so sola fide is different. Federal vision, whether it�s New Perspective on Paul somewhere else, but they�re federal vision.

But, you know, he really writes well. And I just can�t, I guess maybe I could do it this way, Steve. Can�t I find somebody else who writes well, who�s orthodox on sola fide?

Wouldn�t that be a better route? Steve. It would be because if we�re just going to go on those who write well, you know, there are all sorts of fellows that we ought to, you know, lionize. I mean, people want to talk about George Orwell sometimes, but we don�t get our theology from him.

You know, Mark Twain, very interesting humanist and with great perspectives on many things. You know, he�s not a theologian or not a good theologian. So, yeah, I think the fact that the man can write well is not a reason to support him or follow him or, you know, that kind of thing.

Well, Steve, I�m even thinking about somebody like C .S. Lewis. Obviously, he writes well. Obviously, he has some insight. You read screw tape letters or you listen to him talk about suffering and his wife and life and death.

And obviously, there are things there. But I�ve never really been that big of a fan because he�s got so many other problems. Purgatory, last rites, baptismal regeneration, Job isn�t real. I mean, the list goes on and, you know, doesn�t believe in penalty substitution.

I go, can�t I just find somebody else? I mean, I�m getting to the point now, Steve, where I�m 62 almost. I can�t read every book that I want to read before I die. Right. I mean, I don�t need to buy one.

I think my wife echoes the sentiment. I don�t need to buy one more book and I could be reading the books I do have for the rest of my life. True. But it�s fun to buy books, isn�t it? It is fun. And therefore, I have to pick and choose wisely which books I want to read.

So, why don�t I read books that really, I don�t have to say to myself, well, you know what, they�re really against CRT, but they have a semi-Aryan view of the Trinity. That�s crazy.

Well, it�s crazy for us because we want to make sure that we stand in a long line of faithful men, carefully handling the text, not being innovators in any sense in terms of theology. So, but I think for many, many people, you know, I mean, it�s like, would they rather read a book by, you know, Steve Willem or Bill O�Reilly, you know what I mean?

And it�s like, because we know O�Reilly�s on our side, that O�Reilly�s okay, you know? So, I think, because he does have a new book out. Yeah, what is it? Killer of the... Killing the Killers. Okay. Which I don�t know why they went after a rock band, but I digress.

I thought of the same thing. But it really is, I think it�s so easy for us as Christians to get lost in the culture wars and to forget what we�re really to be about, which, you know, if we�re gonna be faithful in terms of making disciples, well, how do we do that?

And the issue isn�t finding great wordsmiths. The issue isn�t finding people who agree with us on social issues. The issue is finding people who are faithful to the text and to, and, and listen, and to historical Christianity.

Totally agree, including a right view of the triune God. Yes. When you think of making disciples, Steve, I, when I think of it and you think of it, you go to Matthew 28, of course, and the Lord Jesus has all authority in heaven and earth, and he said, �Go therefore and make disciples of all nations.

So, we�re about disciple making. Baptizing them in the singular name, there�s one God, of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, one God, three persons, or three subsistences, however you want to phrase it.

And that�s pretty important to Christianity. You can�t make a disciple unless they start with, who is God? And God has revealed himself as an eternal God, one essence, one nature, one will, three persons, and then in the incarnation, of course, we have the Lord Jesus, and now he has two wills because he has two natures, human and divine, and all of a sudden, before we know it, we�re thinking about who God is, and we go, well, you know what, I don�t want to use my brain to think about that because I�ve got cultural issues I need to be involved in.

Pete I�ve got important battles to fight, right? The nature of the Godhead, the nature of Jesus Christ, that�s not important. What�s really important is that people agree with me about abortion.

Peter. But don�t you think that�s just kind of something we have to guard ourselves against because if people say, well, I like Fox News, but then they�ve got some, you know, Jenner�s on Fox News, and liberals are on Fox News, or, you know, like, isn�t there anyone who can agree with me on such and such?

Don�t they have my values? Then we find a person who is an evangelical Christian, and then they have our right views, and so, hmm, they�re good on that, they must be good on everything else. But if they�re bad on the Trinity, I say we have to say, well, teach the person the view, and until they change their view on the Trinity, I can�t have them come and speak at the church.

Pete. You know, Reagan once said that the most dangerous words in the English language are, �I�m from the government, and I came, you know, and I�m here to help. I�d like to say the most dangerous words in evangelicalism today are, �I�m a Christian.

Because many people say it, and they have absolutely no idea what that means. And if you can�t explain the gospel, and I talk to people like this, I know I talk to people like this on a daily basis.

They say they�re Christians, but if I say, what�s the gospel, they won�t be able to answer that question. If I, and worse, if I say, what�s the Trinity? I just don�t know if people would have a clue how to answer that.

Now, I wouldn�t expect them to be, you know, to quote, well, Matthew Barrett said, you know, I wouldn�t expect that. But people just typically say, well, you know, it�s kind of like a three-leaf clover.

Peter. That�s modalism, Patrick.

Patrick I mean, they�re going to give all kinds of analogies, and I need the Lutheran guys to sort of slap them down, yeah.

Peter Shell, albumen, yolk, like an egg.

Patrick. Yeah, it�s water, it�s steam, it�s ice.

Peter Gregory of someplace, I don�t know which someplace, they all start with N�s, that�s where the good Gregory�s are from, he said you can�t use any human illustration on earth and then think about God as triune.

In other words, it has to be revealed information because it�s, God is not like the creation. I thought that was really good. Patrick. Yeah, the analogies are always going to fall apart. Peter. Well, maybe I could put it this way, Steve, and this is true.

You have two books. One book is really good on the Trinity and explaining who Jesus is, how he learns obedience, how he�s submitting to the Father�s will as the incarnate Son, yet in eternity passed by nature ontologically, co-equal, same essence, you know, there�s no subordination in eternity.

I�ve got that book, but I know deep down the guy�s woke, but he�s right on the Trinity. I�ve got another book, and the guy�s anti-woke, and he�s right about it, but I know he�s got some hinky stuff on the Trinity.

Which book do I like better? I mean, that�s really what we�ve come to. Of course, I�m not woke. I hate it. But you go, well, at least he�s got the Trinity right. I think that�s a higher issue than woke, and maybe his view of the Trinity will filter down into the woke.

Steve. Maybe it will. I mean, I think, on the other hand, it depends on what I�m reading for, right? If I wanted to grapple with cultural issues for whatever reason, then I�m not going to pick up the guy who�s got the solid, you know, Trinitarian views, but on social issues, he�s, you know, in la-la land and vice versa.

Peter I like that.

Jordan Cooper is a Lutheran, and he�s got a video channel and sometimes interesting stuff. Here�s what he said. �The fact that people will unite with these guys who are heretical on the most basic Christian doctrine and do conferences with them because they have the same cultural enemy, like, get your priorities straight.

What are you doing Jordan Cooper. Jordan Yeah.

I mean, there are many... Not that, you know, let�s see. When was the last time I was at a major conference where I was a speaker? Never. Okay, so...

Peter Now, anybody who�s listening needs to have Pastor Steve come and do a conference. He�s willing and able to do it.

You�ve done two, I think, haven�t you? Jordan Yep. Peter Two local conferences? Jordan Yep, where I was the sole speaker, pretty much the only guy. But here�s the thing. Peter They invited you back. Jordan Well, kind of they did, yeah.

If I was on the marquee, you know, with a bunch of these other guys, and I knew that they held wrong views on the Trinity and whatnot, I�d be wondering why I was there. Because essentially, when I share that stage with them, I think I�m affirming them, right?

And I don�t really want to. You know, it�s great that we all agree on CRT, on, you know, different social issues. But so what? I can get that at the local Roman Catholic Church, or at the mosque, or at the, you know, I can get it in a lot of places.

But I think theological conferences need to be theological.

Together for the Gospel and Ethnic Diversity

Peter Speaking of which, changing gears just for a moment, or shifting down into second, Together for the Gospel, did you watch it this year at all? Jordan I did not. Peter Did you know they had a Master Seminary alumni speaker there, Bobby Scott?

Jordan Oh, I did not know that. Good for him. Peter And, well, good for him, but he�s, in my opinion, woke. And it�s, you know, Dever is the one that re-asked Platt to come back after Platt�s debacle last time.

And then you�ve got John Piper, who said I don�t know what about justification, crazy stuff, like in his new book on saving faith. And then you got Bobby Scott there, let�s use critical race theory as a tool kind of thing.

And I think, man, the world is wrong side up.

Jordan. Yeah. I mean, if we�re together for the gospel, why are we talking about those things, right? We�re together for the gospel. Now let me tell you where all you guys are not together with me.

Peter I know. Let�s look at the landscape of T4G, and you know what? I don�t think it�s ethnically diverse enough. I look at the different speakers, and I don�t think they�re ethnically diverse enough.

I mean, why did Bobby Scott even get invited?

Jordan Here�s a gripping conference, the ethically diverse conference. Peter Steve, I�d like to know this.

You preached Romans 9 the other day. I mean, what kind of associate pastor, when the pastor�s gone, would preach Romans 9? You know, thanks a lot. Jordan. Sorry about that. Peter. No. I�m glad you did, and I will listen.

You�re preaching that, and so I�d like to know out of the five to 10 commentaries you looked at. You know, in the old days, we�d look at 20 or 30 commentaries. Sometimes I look at 40. Now I just do a few, a few select ones.

If you looked at John Murray, he�s white. That�s Romans. I know it�s a good commentary, but he�s white. Robert Haldane, white, right? English. Jordan. Yeah. Peter. The first guy is Scottish, the second guy is English.

Who else did you look at? Calvin? Jordan Hendrickson.

Oh, white. Peter. Yeah. I mean, I have to say that probably everybody I looked at was Leon Morris, you know, white. Jordan. Uh-oh.

Uh-oh. This is, see, there�s a serious problem here because these truths are looked at from different ways. You don�t know the inherent biases that you have when you�re doing things like this. Isn�t that the stupidest thing you�ve ever heard?

It is utterly ridiculous. I never think about what somebody�s color is anyway, let alone a commentary.

Were the authors of Scripture ethnically diverse? Yeah.

Well, they were darker skin than we were, allegedly.

Okay, but were they ethnically diverse or did they all share one view of the world?

Come on, Simon. Sireni, Sirene. I think that�s Africa. I don�t know what�s going on there.

Something�s gotta give. Modern-day Libya. I, all that idea, you know, that I think, you know, diversity speaks only in terms of our experiences in the world. It should not touch what is true about God or true about Scripture.

Should not, it does not touch what�s true about the gospel. So, this whole idea that, you know, together for the gospel and we�re not diverse enough. Diverse enough about what? Right? The color of our skin should not have anything to do with the way we interpret Scripture or the way we look at the gospel.

It�s the evener, not the separator.

When someone like that guy that got together for the gospel starts talking about what do our churches look like and what�s the ethnic diversity of our churches and how churches need to reflect this, that, and the other, I�m just thinking, do these people even know what they�re saying?

Because what do you do if there�s a town in Iceland? What do you do if, I�ve been to churches in Africa where they�re all black. I�m the only white guy there.

What do we do there? What if the church is just supposed to reflect, I don�t know, the glory of God, you know?

And the community from whence it, you know, where... Yes, yes. Well, I think it would be summarized by, don�t get your theology from celebrities and make sure primary things are primary and tertiary things are from Aetertius.

Tertius. Mike Abendroth, Steve Cooley, No Compromise Radio Ministry. You can write us, mike at nocompromiseradio .com.

You can check us out online at bbchurch .org or by phone at 508 -835 -3400.