Twitter-Driven DL from Dolores, Colorado

Intercession and Mediation of Christ

Greetings and welcome to the dividing line. My name is James white and we are coming to you live from. Are we literally in Dolores? We're outside of the woods six miles outside of Dolores, Colorado. And you might be saying.

You normally don't tell us exactly where you are. Because that sort of helps the Isis terrorists. All the The Danites some of you don't know who Danites are. Danites come from Mormon history. They were the they were the hit hit people for Brigham Young, basically, but anyway.

That tells you everybody is well.

You know.

It doesn't look like the most populated area. I've ever been in that there probably aren't any. Well I think about it. We're close to Utah. They're very close to Utah. Yeah. Mmm. Yeah. Well, I'll fight the Danites off if they find me I guess but we are we are at the views RV Park and when I first.

When we first announced we bought a little grand design reflection 150 that we I Started pulling around and was so proud when I got back on my first trip that having destroyed it. Because I I still think if rich had been honest, he assumed I would destroy it somewhere along the way.

I think that's probably. Anyway rich said hey, I got a call or a email or a letter I forget exactly how it was there's there's a couple up in Southern Southern, Colorado, and he knew where it was because he and his wife his wife has family up in Denver and they instead of going the 25 route up to Denver, they like to go through the mountains and Have been through this direction.

And in fact, he was telling me about.

The.

And I ran it I saw it it was on the 160 coming up on the left-hand side of the road. You're driving along and there's this high school and it's on the reservation and It's that and you're looking around there is nothing else out here.

I mean as far as there's not even a hogan out there. You see nothing out there and here's a high school and the hilarious part is Right on the scoreboard, you know what the mascot name is the Redskins on the reservation it's called the Redskins and then you go like a quarter mile and here's this big old hospital and Right next to it really nice Government homes because no one's gonna live out there unless you provide.

And.

But I'm looking around there's nothing out here. There has got to be a secret government facility underneath this thing. That's where they keep the aliens when Independence Day really happens. That's where they're gonna be going.

That's the real area. 51 something. I don't know. But anyways rich knows that area really really well. That's like you said you haven't gotten there. But when you get there, this is what you're gonna see.

And he was spot-on.

So.

Anyway.

So we got this invitation and then I ran into these folks. Well, they say at g3, but I'm sorry that part just just. Yeah, when you're I meet a lot of folks at g3. But I do remember at Apologia when you all were down in Phoenix warming up or something like that.

Because I imagine it's a little bit nippy in this part of the woods, so we have a live studio audience today here in at the views RV Park, and so if you're hey if you're see I. Everything's backwards.

There we go. There it is. Um. There it is right there. See. I'm wearing the t-shirt. So if you're up in the area look them up and you'll get lots of nice views. That's why maybe you got that name.

I don't know.

But.

Yeah, I was unfortunately Had to cut off a few limbs of the tree next to me today because this is not a small unit. It's it's a beastie. And this is a nice long slot that I'm in now. That's that's very nice of you to do that.

I have been stuck in some slots that I wasn't sure how I was gonna get. But it's nice to be a nice long one so we're up here I'm gonna get to speak on Sunday actually local church always enjoy getting a chance to do that kind of thing getting to meet people and that's why we That's why we do the do the RV thing now rather than well.

There's lots of other reasons I guess the Data crash today took most of the airlines out, too. I happen to see the only thing still working is Twitter. Thank You Elon Musk, I mean seriously, we're coming to you.

I've got no cash. Everything's working. Perfect we're coming to you by a Starlink and We've had Starlink now for about two years the improvements in Starlink in two years. Astonishing. I mean, you know most companies you put something out and then hey live with it.

Obviously these folks are like we're gonna keep improving this and it's like now It's working for us so so well and it's exciting to be able to do that but I'm watching this thing on Twitter this morning that shows all the airplanes in the air in Arizona and Arizona in the United States and then you see the time of the crash come by and everything.

It's just there's just almost nothing in there. It was about it looked like 9-eleven. It really did look like. My wife was used to work for American and they were particularly taken down by it and so.

Yeah, you know I could be sitting in an airport someplace. Trying to get somewhere and those are not fun places to be. Let me tell you so we are taking your Twitter questions today and I keep getting notifications on my phone from my I have a very nice weather center Weather thing in my backyard and it tells me that there's There's lightning within 25 miles of my home.

So that doesn't help me where I am now at all.

But.

It always looks like you're gonna get rained on up here, but then it goes away. I'm not sure why I Haven't yet gotten a really good rainstorm. I hope it's not just saving up. But I want a really good rainstorm because we had the roof sealed.

Because they had a leak coming through that Bent right there, right? It wouldn't have quite it would have almost taken you out. I would have taken your foot out or something like that right next to the door.

But that was in a thunderstorm and that in Texas that was a thunderstorm. I mean it was coming down buckets and it probably took 20 minutes before it started leaking. So.

You know.

It's a new unit as far as Going on the road and you shake stuff loose when you bounce these babies up and down roads. People understand that but that's what happens. Anyways, we're taking your questions on Twitter and I guess there are two places.

I need to be looking at there is the broadcast channel the live broadcast channel, which Okay, I I see some of the. Yes, you know for example Scott Johnson is in our channel and I need better glasses well, I need glasses period.

Scott Johnson's in our channel and he just said Starlink is neat, but it ruined astral photography forever. He's right, he's right believe you me he's right. I Was doing stuff before Starling and you would still get streaks from satellites now I actually have night-vision goggles and I got the idea from Jason Lyle smartest man on the planet truly is.

I Would challenge anybody show me someone smarter than Jason. I can't find it Hopefully gonna be running into him next week when I'm in Colorado Springs. But in fact, I texted I texted Jason today. I said hey the debate worked out in Colorado Springs and I'm just telling you you're my backup guy if I get sick.

It's like yeah, right, okay, so, um, but I Was so Jason gave me the idea and you know night-vision goggles. You look up at the sky on a clear night with really good military grade night-vision goggles.

It's amazing what you can see. It's amazing. And the thing is when I first got there when I was up in Denver, I look up the sky I Could find a satellite within 30 seconds easily sometimes immediately just all sudden you see this thing and Now with all these Starling ones up there they are you take a picture where you open your lens up like 20 seconds and You're gonna have streaks going all over the place because there's so many satellites up there now I don't know how anybody launches anything without running into one of those things.

They need they need they need traffic lights up and It's amazing. Um. Okay, well, you know what other there there there are a bunch in the public channel, but in the in the Dividing line channel. I'll go ahead and and go with that question first.

And then we'll go to the others. But Roberto has asked what does the intercession and mediation of Christ mean? Nothing like easy short questions. Like, you know I'm surprised no one asked me. I'm wearing a Nice turquoise inlaid cross today, but last time I had my child.

I've never had anyone you saw you saw it, too. Okay. People are wondering what's that? What is that weird thing? You've got it's a hi. There's one right there actually. That was perfect. Um Hi means life in Hebrew and so If you've ever watched fiddle on the roof, you've heard what I am look I am to life that's where it comes from and that I am would be plural but Hebrew frequently uses plural just to Emphasize something so it's not lives necessarily, it's life and So John 14 6 when Jesus answers that question.

The Atonement, the High Priest, and Christ’s Heavenly Intercession

I am the way the truth and the light would be high. Would be what what would be referred to there? So That's so it would have been very quick and easy to answer that question. I guess I could answer the question by saying it is probably The most Beautiful and important clear biblical revelation in Scripture that most Christians know nothing about and everything and I hate to say it that way.

But you would think You know some of the Puritans said things like You know if if I what was it Who was it that said it was was it? Bunyan, I think it was Bunyan who said if I knew That Christ was in the next room Praying for me, I would fear nothing and The reality is the biblical teaching is that Christ is at the right hand of the Father Interceding for me.

So why should I have fear of anything?

And.

That's a that's an appropriate observation. We've talked about mediation intercession accessory work of Christ a lot in light of the doctrine of the Atonement. Because unfortunately in most of evangelicalism the doctrine the Atonement is primarily Communicated to people by hymns.

I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with communicating good theology by hymns. The problem is in the Context in which I was raised. We had a lot of hymns about the cross. But they're not inspired and.

And.

Very often you ended up with a Doctor of the Atonement that was primarily based on emotion rather than revelation. For example, I I can't I can't even think of well, I don't consider myself an expert on Hymnology.

Maybe we could ask Scott annual. That's his thing.

But.

If you're asking you're going why. Scott annual. Scott and I both teach for GBTS, so he's my fellow professor. I don't talk about it a lot, but I am professor of church history and apologetics at GBTS and Scott teaches there as well.

And so we have staff meetings and stuff like that. So We communicate in that way and are on the same team and working together and he's is really an expert on Psalms and hymnology and stuff like that, but I can't think of a single him.

I'll bet Charles Wesley did. Write something and now that I'm thinking about it I think there is. I am now now I am thinking about That one that he did on the cross but almost none of them when speaking of the cross speak of Christ's Intercessory work on behalf of all those for whom he is died.

A.

Very few people think of the fact that the work of the high priest There is the the audience for whom the high priest offers sacrifice is the same audience. And if people just think about that and if they would think about what is the new covenant?

It's the covenant. What in my blood? When when you really start seeing the interconnected connections these things. And I Think this will come out when Jared and I Jared Longshore and I are debating in a few weeks from Denver from this location.

Lord willing.

The.

The beauty and harmony of the biblical revelation, especially in Hebrews, but also in Romans 8 9.

That.

Shows us Christ as high priest The nature of the New Covenant who is in the New Covenant and The perfecting work of the intercession of Christ Hebrews 7 24. He is able to save to the uttermost or completely Because he ever lives to make intercession for those who draw near to God through him.

So it's it's not.

Just.

The offering of the sacrifice it is then the presentation of that in the resurrected Christ and and.

I.

Said a number of times we posted last year I preached at the church in Denver. That is hosting. I'll be preaching there again, but that is hosting The open theism debate and so I Preached there on the ascension of Christ and its connection with Mark chapter 14.

And I said then I said, you know what I can remember the first time I ever preached on the Ascension I was at a church on Long Island and It was a liturgical church and so they. It was a set Ascension Sunday or something like that.

Believe me Independent Reform Baptists don't have Ascension Sunday. That's that's a calendar you don't you don't play with and so I Remember it was so to come up with a sermon on the Ascension, which only meant I had only ever really viewed it as.

A.

Fact, you know sort of how Jesus gets back to heaven, you know really wasn't anything more than that. And then when I Had my Eschatological awakening a couple years ago. I started realizing.

You know.

When when Psalm 2 says kiss the Sun lest he be angry. Where's the Sun? Where's the Sun today? How is Jesus raining today? And that's when I realized the connection between Mark 14 and Daniel 7 and how Daniel 7 is.

The picture of the enthronement of The resurrected son when he comes before the ancient days he's the son of man and a kingdom is given to him and His servants will Serve him. And in the Greek Septuagint is Latrua.

That's the same term used for the service of the priests in the temple. That's the highest form of worship.

And.

So, I think all you put all that together and I think that's why there is a Lack of emphasis the part of many people in understanding Christ. Intercessory and mediatorial. Mediatorial work. It's not a separate work as in additional to.

Because when you know what the high priest did on Yom Kippur in the day of atonement.

16.

I.

Mean we started thinking about Leviticus 8 blood on earlobes. But anyway. But you know what the high priest did, you know that that was that was his duty that day he performed. The sacrifice the carrying of the blood the sprinkling of the blood upon the mercy seat in the holy place.

And so Christ as our high priest. The difference the fulfillment element is that the high priest always had to then back out. There was no place to sit down in the holy place. He could never his work could never be finished because next year he's got to be back and the after that.

He's got to be back here after that. He's got to be back. It was the repetitiveness of the sacrifice. It was meant to point people's minds forward to a perfect completion which is what you have in Calvary, which is.

What is so? Dangerous and destructive about the Roman Catholic Mass is You don't have a finished sacrifice. That is then Commemorated in the supper you have a propitiatory sacrifice. It doesn't protect them and That's a that's a tragedy.

I say that because I was seeing stuff on Twitter yesterday about a Eucharistic conference going on somewhere in Midwest with 55 ,000 people in attendance and That there was a picture where the light came in through a window and it struck the Eucharist and there was light going everywhere you know.

Miracles miracles everywhere stuff going on. So, um, there you there you go. Um,. So anyway, I don't even know how people know how to get into this.

A.

Thing on the live broadcast, but I suppose. Did it. Did it the deed do you think. When Christ sat down after performing the Atonement, he sat on the mercy seat.

I.

Never considered it and and scripture does not say it. It says he seated the right hand of the Father. I Don't know how to answer them like that because I don't think. That's the case rich says I need to move the microphone closer.

Having to be able to see rich see it's one thing in the studio because you know, he's right there in the window. But you know when I'm on the road, I figure I get away from the nanny state, you know. And and instead I still get stuck with do this do that.

Talk louder move them move the microphone closer. Anyway, um, okay. It's rich ruffling now, um, let me go to my feed here. Gabriel Hughes asks Why is a good burger better than a great steak? And I know most people disagree with Gabe on this but I agree with Gabe on this.

I'm not a big steak guy and it Part of this cuz it's hard to get really good steaks. I've had a couple really good steaks when I was up in First Mount Rushmore, then it's in the codas. Yeah. The folks that had me up for the debate against Iglesia Iglesia, Negrito they had this place were like the this cow had been Slaughtered like 12 hours earlier type thing, you know, I mean just super super fresh and those were really good.

And when we were on the Mercury in Alaska cruise ship Mercury in Alaska over a decade ago. Wow. Wow, most of the time most of places I go it's just and I'm just not in there Stuff and so yeah, I just have awesome.

I've had some great great burgers. And so I'm with Gabe on that one. Um Stephen asked why is a good pizza pie better than both of those? Well that really depends then someone had RC scroll going what's the matter with you people for all of that?

I will skip passing. Um Ty you're trying to get me in a lot of trouble.

Ty Brillhardt.

Asks about Sabbath issues. Let me just tell you something. Um, if I were to address this I would want a whole lot of time. Outside of certain elements of eschatology, I can't think of a subject that Launches more tradition based emotion Than this issue.

On the one hand amongst Non-reformed you never even think about. It's not even some people think about and they wonder why Calvinist do you think about it?

And.

Then amongst the reformed. You have the the Puritan view and you have what's called the continental view so the Puritans and. Hence the early Reformed Baptists and I have sat look. I've sat in Reformed Baptist conferences where I was once.

And I have listened to brilliant brothers. I love them. They may not love me anymore, but I've listened brothers. I still love. Give the absolute best arguments. To assert that the Seventh day Sabbath has been moved in the providence of God to the first day of the week.

Sometimes in Hebrews 4 Hebrews is about the only place you can go that talks about Sabbath rest and so.

And.

Look, I'm sitting there as a person Who is friendly to these folks and you know, I'm willing to listen to them and stuff and I I Just sit there going. I.

Could never defend that.

Now I again, I've said this many many times I'm weird and you all know that One of the first things crossed my mind When a topical gist comes up as I go if I'm going to present something as being dogmatically Necessary Which a lot of people present their views of the Sabbath as I mean so much so that they will cut you off.

If you don't agree, okay, so it's it almost never goes to the direction but If I were to Try to defend that position in a debate against a well-prepared person who has Dealt with the New Testament in its original languages Read our material.

I don't think it could do it it would be a preference thing and So When you when you look at the continental view, which was Calvin's view Certainly they have You know emphasis upon the necessity of gathering for worship and the priority of the church and all that stuff.

But the idea of a wholesale Transfer a movement I could never defend that exegetically using the same hermeneutical principles that I would use to defend the Trinity of the D of Christ the resurrection or justification by faith and all the rest of the type of stuff so I I can't go there dogmatically like a lot of Puritans did there are a number of things Puritans did that I I just go I bless them, but You know that was that day and this is this day and it's not that God's truth has changed, but there were cultural issues that led to certain conclusions that I Can't defend it All of that to say it just seems to me that there are a few topics that can get people more riled up And more angry than that particular one from one particular perspective I don't see the people who would take like a continental view Getting out the long knives or anything else but it's folks on the other side and And I'm just not interested in that battle to be perfectly honest with you so there you go with that.

And Lee Stanley just made another huge fumble well, okay, I'll take a look at that one later Make sure you stop and get a burger at the Depot best burger for over 500 miles. I'm getting I'm getting a A thumbs up from the live studio audience on that so Is that down in Cortez?

It's in Dolores. Oh.

Okay, well.

We may find out what your Sabbath views are. Hey if Scott Christensen tells you last time I saw Scott This was weird because I've flown exactly twice since coded it. One was within a few weeks, so They were just starting to suggest masking and stuff like that so To go see my dad as last time I saw my dad before he died and then the other time I flew was to go pick up the truck in, Louisiana and I'm walking Through the airport Sky Harbor, and I hear someone say James, and I look over and I hope I'm remembering, but I'm pretty sure it was Scott Christensen and Cancelled flights.

The look on everybody's face was like I just want to go home. You know it was it was a massive change in and travel.

But.

I'm I don't see if the picture is too far away from you to see things, but I'm pretty sure it's the same Scott Christian Brenda asks this is a big one in your opinion. Is it accurate to call the angel Lord a pre-incarnate appearance of Jesus as opposed to a pre-incarnate appearance of the Son?

Am I nitpicking too much to think calling him Jesus and an accurate way of talking about the angel of the Lord. Well the angel Lord obviously Represents Yahweh speaks for Yahweh. A lot of people think it's a Christophany.

And hence is a pre-incarnate appearance of the Son my assumption is That the question is going. He's not named Jesus until he's born of the Virgin Mary and is incarnate. And the Pre-incarnate Appearances.

Genesis 18 and 19 three men come visit Abram and The two go down to Sodom and Gomorrah. They're the angels the one walks with Abraham you've got the what if there's 40 what if there's 30 20 10 so it's over and Then you have that statement Yahweh rained fire and brimstone on Sodom and Gomorrah from Yahweh in heaven.

And so was that the angel of Yahweh being identified as Yahweh it's. You know, there's there's a lot of Arguing back and forth on certain issues like that, but yeah, I I I think especially when doing apologetics you do need to be careful about how you Say things, you know, we tend to just go well, you know in eternity past Jesus did such and so.

Okay, I was actually the second person in the Trinity the Sun. Yes, it was absolutely certain. He was going to enter into time at the fullness of time as Jesus. So it's not like some heresy or something.

But yeah, it's probably best to be careful, you know, it's similar but this might actually be more important it's So common when I travel and I I visit other churches and things like that. It's so common to hear folks be less than Particular and specific in Their addressing father son or spirit in prayer.

So I'll start off all our gracious Heavenly Father. We thank you Lord Jesus for savings. Okay, did you just identify Jesus as the father probably didn't intend to. But that's how it came across. You didn't indicate that you were shifting.

You know the object of your prayer or your dress and so it happens a lot. I think It would be similar. I think It's not so much that people are Are actually modalists, that's what a person who confuses father son spirit is modalism.

It's not that they actually hold that view. It's just that they slip into it. For not just simply for not being overly accurate in their statements. So I See that I see the distinction you're making and it's and it's a it's alright.

Can you explain or speak on what Abraham's bosom is? Well, it's just a term Brad Lambert asked this question. It's the term used in in Luke to refer to a place of What we would call Hades. Which is different than hell.

It is a Now you get into what's what is the intermediate state. Is Luke 16 actually a parable or is it an actual story? It's you know, it's about the you know, Lazarus and the rich man and Lazarus dies and he's in Abraham's bosom.

So he is in a place of joy and peace. He's not being punished and there are those who are being punished and Then what happens at the resurrection of Christ is is the statement in Ephesians about he leads captivity captive.

Is that when those who have been in this holding place? Leave and are now in the presence of Christ leaving only those who are under punishment. That's my that's my view but again It's I Would not do a debate on Everything that I have a view on.

Okay, so there's a there's a big difference between Dogma and then stuff we can that stuff's it's important, but I've got friends that believe all sorts of things about that and then the stuff down here where it's like Hey, if you all want to fight about that go go on Facebook.

Care.

The Adi Afra the things that don't make a fundamental difference and so. Those that's some of the background issues that we can look at there. Oh, I can't bill. I haven't. I haven't had a chance to listen to his book.

Bill Roach asked me to Talk about Michael Icona's understanding of inspiration and errancy. I Haven't had a chance with the debates. I've got coming up. I'm not debating him. So.

But.

He has. Michael Icona has put out a new book. You may recall I forget how many years ago it was now.

He.

Well, remember for those of you who don't the names, let me just real quickly. Mike like Kona is Christian apologists. He's very much in the camp of William Lane Craig. William Craig is very weak on Inerrancy original sin issues like that.

And.

Mike like Kona has done a number of debates with Bart Ehrman and We have reviewed Those debates with Bart Ehrman and Mike like Kona on the dividing lines we spent hours. And a few years ago. He came out Mike like Kona came out with a Paper or somewhere in a book somewhere along the lines.

He was the one that got in big trouble with Norman Geisler About his views about Matthew remember in Matthew. We have the singular text that talks about The dead coming out of the graves and coming into Jerusalem.

Okay. And Mike like Kona said basically that that's mythology. It didn't really happen and Norman Geisler Came down on him and his views of inerrancy says not really inerrancy in and of course Norman Geisler came down on me first for things do so I I don't automatically just go but I agreed with Geisler on that particular subject and the nature of inerrancy and the Tendency toward compromise that's part of the Craig like Kona Majority of scholars believe type of school of apologetics and so if years ago he came out with something Book or something about saying well, here's a here's a place where mark blew it mark Got a geographical fact wrong.

He says but it doesn't matter it doesn't change anything and we walked through it and said but you don't have to come to this conclusion and Through it, but it was sort of an indication of the direction that he was going to be going and so He has a new book out haven't had a chance to listen to it yet.

Because the debate topics that I'm doing on this trip are open theism authority authority issues with Roman Catholicism. Not I'm not sure if I'm even gonna count this debate as my seventh debate on solo scriptura.

Because I'm in the negative this time. We actually have it's taken 34 years To find someone brave enough, but Alex who I will be debating. If you've not don't know who Alex is. I think I posted the graphic.

I'm pretty sure I posted the graphic. Alex is a sharp young Roman Catholic apologist Who has probably been sued 12 times by Sylvester Stallone for impersonation fraud? Okay, seriously It's I'm I'm I'm literally debating rocky.

And and Alex you listen to him and and he I don't think he'll be offended by this at all. I really don't he seems like a really cool guy. He's not gonna be offended and I'm sure he has been told 10 ,000 times in his life that You cannot tell the difference between He and Sylvester Stallone in their accent their voice the whole nine yards, which does give me an advantage.

Because Sylvester is not the fastest speaker and now there's Alex. So I will get at least 33 more words in during the course of day. So he'll probably laugh about all this stuff. I hope you will anyways.

Because it's it's all men's and fun. But Alex is actually going to be positively defending the Catholic view of authority over against soldiers and We've been trying to get to something. Have somebody do that for 34 years.

He's the first one the man up and do it now. That's not a very long debate. So it's not like we can get into a whole bunch of stuff. But Yeah, that's that's the the first debate next weekend in fact, I think it's Week from tomorrow.

Yeah week from tomorrow. Colorado Springs. I have zero notes. That doesn't mean anything I was I've been listening and this is a subject I've been dealing with for most of my life. But I'll be honest with you Being on the other side now neither one of us are using slides.

Which which means he's not gonna walk in and just do a presentation not care whether I'm there or not like some Catholic.

But.

You know in this situation obviously, there's certain points I want to get to but being in the negative I think the respectful way of debating is for me to Respond to what presentation he makes and not just have my own thing going on which can be hard to do.

You know because exactly where is he? Where is his emphasis gonna be and stuff like that? So it it could be challenging. Anyways, those are the topics I have coming up.

That.

Open theism and then The nature of the New Covenant and the blood of the covenant things like that. So like cone is just not there yet. But he's done some presentations. I've got the book I can use speech if I to listen to it.

Man, I love that program. It works so well. Maybe I can start getting to some of it on the way back. But honestly, I've got some great stuff from Greg Bonson Kenneth Gentry to get to as well and I Still know um Bill Why aren't you doing it?

It's you're the young guy. You're you're the guy with a whole lot more of youth and energy than I've got. Next question best path for pastors. For seminary who don't want to bankrupt themselves and be able to provide for their family.

And that's sad I because it's it's a very good question. Um, it is sad.

And.

I've I've sort of preached on this subject before. In essence obviously my views are a little bit different than professors at big-box seminaries. For a long time Seminaries were the you know, this massive library and was before the Internet and things like that.

And you you uproot your family and you move there. And when you think about it What local churches were doing is you train young men up and you hopefully give them consistent testimony of how to handle the Word of God and and Worship and all the rest that kind of stuff.

And then what do you do you get rid of? You you ship them off someplace. You put them under somebody else's authority. Somebody else's preaching. They'll never come back. You'll never see him again. And so what that means is.

Your.

Elders and pastors. Stuff you've got to be getting from someplace else. It's not. You know second Timothy 2 2 seems to indicate that the apostolic way is raising up leadership from within the church. How else can you how else can you look at someone's life and know if they are?

Responsible enough worthy enough to be entrusted with these things. You don't do it that way and.

I.

Think the internet is breaking some of that down in the sense that you now have the opportunity to learn and to study. Even learn the languages and stuff like that without uprooting your family and going someplace and spending.