ReformCon 2019 Announcement and More!

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00:01

Non -rockabotas must stop! I don't want to rock the boat, I want to sink it! Are you going to bark all day, little doggie, or are you going to bite?

00:12

We're being delusional. Delusional? Delusional's okay in your world view. I'm an animal.

00:17

You don't chastise chickens for being delusional. You don't chastise pigs for being delusional. So you calling me delusional using your world view is perfectly okay.

00:25

It doesn't really hurt. She hung up on me! Desperate times call for faithful men and not for careful men.

00:38

The careful men come later and write the biographies of the faithful men, lauding them for their courage.

00:45

Go into all the world and make disciples. Not go into the world and make buddies. Not to make brosives. Don't go into the world and make homies.

00:53

Disciples. I got a bit of a jiggle neck. That's a joke, pastor.

01:00

When we have the real message of truth, we cannot let somebody say they're speaking truth when they're not.

01:22

Jesus said to them, I am the bread of life. Whoever comes to me shall not hunger, and whoever believes in me shall never thirst.

01:29

But I said to you that you have seen me, and yet do not believe.

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All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me

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I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will, but the will of Him who sent me.

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And this is the will of Him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that He has given me, but raise it up on the last day.

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For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in Him should have eternal life, and I will raise

02:07

Him up on the last day. What's up, y 'all? Welcome back to another episode of The Gospel Heard Around the

02:14

World. This is Apology Radio, guys. I'm Jeff. They call me the Ninja. That's Luke the Bear. What up? And that is

02:20

Joy the Girl. Hello. She is from Sheologians, y 'all. I am. Go check that out at Sheologians .com

02:25

with Summer Yeager and tons of amazing episodes. You guys should go check it out and do it as soon as possible.

02:33

Make sure you guys download that. It's on everything, right? iTunes, Google Play. Everywhere.

02:38

It's funny because I used to be from Apology Radio, but now I'm from Sheologians. Yes, that's right.

02:43

Now you're like a guest host on our show kind of in a way. No, I don't like that. No. This is your show.

02:49

As long as you remember where you came from. That's right. Okay, good. All right. So, hey, guys. We're back.

02:55

Very exciting news today. It's been actually a couple of weeks of exciting news. We've had a new

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Appy app we dropped for End Abortion Now, folks. Now Christians can talk, converse globally on a free app.

03:10

Took some time, took some doing to get done. Thank you, Tim, for all your hard work on that and everyone else who worked on that.

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So we've actually put together a free app for everybody who is engaged in the issue of abortion with the gospel.

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Okay, there you go. I was like, is that a cowbell going out of my ear right now? So it's a free app, and you download that app.

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We put the video up recently. Go check out that video. It is very, very exciting. Now all the churches who are involved, local churches who are involved in bringing the gospel in the area of abortion, now you can talk to each other.

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It's a very big deal. No cost to any of y 'all. All you do is get connected to it. So that's big news.

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But we also have big news today that we've been waiting to actually drop for a long time.

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Yeah, we're excited. We have tried to drop this news for a very, very long time, but something just kept kind of getting in the way.

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And now we are ready to do it. So we're glad you're all watching. Make sure you guys like and share.

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Do everything you got to do. Hit all the buttons. Make sure everyone gets to know all this. So many of you guys know that we held a very big, very exciting conference 2016.

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It was ReformCon 2016. Has it been that long? ReformCon 2016,

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I had a blast. I really did. It was a lot of fun. It was a whole lot of fun.

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We had some great speakers. We had some amazing people from all over the country come and join us. We had amazing fellowship.

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We got fed. I mean, spiritually and physically. We had some good food and food truck stuff and even some interesting fun goodies showed up.

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Ice cream things. And it was a lot of fun. It was not. It was not. It just showed up.

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We didn't even invite them. We don't even know how they got there or heard about it. It was not your mama's or your grandmama's conference.

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It was a lot of fun. Contrary to popular opinion, it was not a tattoo,

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Bible, and beer conference. That didn't happen. Never happened.

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I don't think the word tattoo was said once. Maybe. There was no beer.

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No. There was no beer. Actually, I think Nate Wilson did mention tattoos in his individual talk, but that was because he was against them.

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Oh. There you go. Okay. So it was such an amazing success.

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ReformCon 2016. We thought we needed to do it again. And I actually read one of our favorite

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Reform verses just now as we started the show today. John chapter 6. All that the

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Father has given to me will come to me. And when it comes to me, I'll never cast out. So we thought a good chance now to do

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ReformCon 2019. And only this time, we wanted to make it very, very special with more stuff coming in terms of food and fellowship and all the rest.

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We don't want this to be the typical gathering where you kind of sit and you just sort of, you know, for nine hours a day, you just get stuffed full and just worn out.

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We want opportunity for fellowship. We want opportunity for everyone to be able to network with one another.

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But more importantly, of course, we want to have you guys come and be a quick. Get tattooed.

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Yes. I mean, sorry. Yes. Oh, goodness gracious.

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Not really. No, not really. What Jeff was saying. Yeah, yeah. That stuff. We want you guys to get equipped.

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We want you to get ready to engage the culture in the public square, which actually is the focus of ReformCon 2019.

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It's Reformation in the public square where it needs to be.

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That's where the gospel really first broke out was in the public square.

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And that's where the Reformation broke out was in the public square. And so that's what we need to take place now in 2019.

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As you see the collapse of culture in the West around us, we need to engage with the truth, with boldness, and of course, with love in the public square.

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So we have some amazing speakers and teachers. I'm going to kick it off to you guys right now so you can tell everybody what is happening, dates, times, and how you guys all can get connected.

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I want to just say officially right now, because I really want to make sure that you guys get a chance to come.

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We have very limited space where we're meeting. And so if you don't get your ticket early, if you don't book your spot,

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I can't promise you that you're going to have a spot the day of because it's only limited space that we have.

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I think we can only fit somewheres around 500 uncomfortably. Yeah, that'll be like shoved together.

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That'll be very, very difficult. So with that in mind, just know that it's going to be limited space.

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You should get your tickets. And I'll let them let you know about the very special bonus that's coming at the end of ReformCon.

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Go for it. Go ahead, Joy. OK, well, first of all, you can get all the information that we're about to talk about here on ReformCon .org.

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So go to ReformCon .org and you can look at all the information with your eyes that I'm about to tell you right now.

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OK, so on ReformCon .org, you will see that ReformCon 2019 takes place

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October 24th to the 26th. That's a Thursday, Friday and Saturday.

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There is a little description. You can register and get your tickets right now. We currently have an early bird rate that saves you some money.

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And that's going, as you'll see on the website also, that's going until August 8th.

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OK, and then ticket prices will go up. We have a family rate. So you can check that out.

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Also, when you click the little register now button, you'll get a little description of kind of what's involved in that ticket.

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You will need to have a ticket. We will not have tickets available for sale the day that it starts.

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So you will want to buy your ticket before October 24th because that is the day it starts at 8 o 'clock a .m.

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There is a little special extra. I like how you did that.

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You're like a little special. A little special extra. So technically the 24th and the 25th.

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So that's Thursday and Friday are ReformCon 2019. And then Saturday, October 26th is our gift to you.

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And that's included in the price of your ReformCon ticket, which is a we're doing a short end abortion now conference.

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Yeah, Saturday. Since our 2016 ReformCon, we had an end abortion now conference.

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So we've had them separately. This time we're going to combine them. So technically that event is included in the cost of your

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ReformCon ticket. It is, as you'll see on the website, at some point, once we have an idea of ReformCon attendees, we will open up registration for just the end abortion now event.

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So at some point, just we'll announce it. Don't worry. Don't freak out. At some point, we will allow you if you just want to.

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If you live locally, if you just want to attend that for free, then you can. All that, like I said, all this information is on here.

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You can check out some of the speakers. We're updating the speakers as we go.

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If you look at the little speakers thing, there's a picture of Summer and myself. We're not actually speaking in case any of you guys are about to freak out.

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Oh, lady. Women are teaching. But there we will have. So we'll have teaching sessions.

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We'll have some breakout sessions. We want to have some live crossover podcast events.

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As you can see, Dr. White's going to be there. He'll be speaking. And obviously, the

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Dividing Line will team up with Sheologians or Apology Radio or CrossPolitik. You can see

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Toby's there. Toby's going to be speaking. Gabe's picture is up there as well.

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And he'll be there as a part of CrossPolitik. We just have a lot going on. It's all about confronting culture and meeting people in the public square and reasoning with people regularly.

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So a lot of it will have to do with media, specifically social media. Andrew Sandlin's also going to be there.

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I mean, honestly, we'll update you guys more with what the exact schedule looks like.

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The topics that they're speaking on. But that's a good general overall. And just so you know, so you can get a fix on like when we pick the speakers.

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Just know that we pick the speakers that we delight in. And we're like,

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I want to get fed by these guys. I want to be taught by these guys. So you're getting really our picks in terms of when you have like ReformCon.

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We're saying we believe that these guys need to be heard in our day. And that these guys are effective.

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And that they can make you effective for the battle that's ahead. So these are our handpicked speakers.

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When you talk about having someone like Dr. Joe Boot. He's a legend. Andrew Sandlin.

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Dr. James White. I mean, you go down the list of guys that we have scheduled to speak. And you have a list of people that we believe need to be heard right now.

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To be effective in the public square. And to prepare you to fight with the gospel in the public square.

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So that's what we're doing. Yeah, so right now we got besides Jeff, Dr. White, John Sampson, Joe Boot, Andrew Sandlin, Toby Sumter.

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Those are the confirmed. Maybe more, but those are what's confirmed. Geologians will be there. Dividing the line.

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Cross -politics. Marcus will be there. Marcus will be there. Doing a promo hopefully for Babies of Murder too.

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That's right. And then on Saturday for In Abortion Now. It'll be myself. Conover. Zach Conover.

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Rusty Thomas. And Jeff. So it'll be a lot of teaching.

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But we're hoping that it's also fun. And that you can get. I know that a lot of people who attended

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ReformCon in 2016, it was just an opportunity to meet people.

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Sometimes people that you didn't realize lived so close to you even. Right, right, right. Like people who you can be friends with.

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And it's a really cool opportunity. I get emails all the time through the

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Apology of Studios contact with people going, What's my first step in getting equipped to be like Jeff?

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And it takes a lot of time. This conference won't turn you into Jeff. But if you've ever sent an email, if you've ever wondered like, where do

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I start? Who do I listen to? This would be a great event for you to attend. Just saying.

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Yes, that's right. That's right. Hashtag. And you get to meet all that you get to hang out with and meet all of the people that you see regularly on Sheologians or CrossPolitik or here on Apology of Radio or Dividing Line.

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And you get to meet some of my very favorite teachers, honestly. I mean, Luke and I, these are our handpicked.

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Like these guys you need to hear. They will bless your life. From Dr. White to Dr. Joe Boot to Andrew Sandlin, Toby.

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I mean, these guys we believe are effective ministers of the gospel in our day and age. You need to hear them.

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So that's what's up. Now, I want to also say that, like Joy said, we don't want

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ReformCon to be a time where you kind of come and you just sit and you just get sort of like cram -fed, you know, nine hours of teaching.

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We want to have time for you guys to have a good time. We have plans for like book tables and plans for food and fellowship and all those different things, things happening outside of the conference itself.

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And we promise no one's going to be here tattooing your forehead. So regardless of what you heard about the last

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ReformCon 2016, it probably was not true. So if you're like,

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I've heard all. If you heard that it was really fun. Yeah, then you heard right. Yeah, ReformCon 2016 was actually a huge success.

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And we're looking forward to 2019 because we have a lot more planned and we think we have a lot more work ahead of us.

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And this particular conference of ReformCon 2019 is about Reformation in the public square, which honestly, if you consider it, all the things that are happening around us in the world right now, that is probably one of the primary areas of focus that we need to be focused in upon is

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Reformation in the public square. And that is our engagement with the biblical worldview, biblical gospel and the word of God in the public square.

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And it needs to be done with boldness and it has to be done effectively and honestly, I think that the lineup you have at ReformCon 2019, there's nobody better that can get you ready,

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I think. And I was just going to add one thing you were saying about like fellowship and stuff. We've made a priority not to go late.

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Yeah. Well, no, on Thursday it ends early too, right? Yeah, it tends to work a little bit better for people to...

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I know in the past we tried to have lunch and dinner at the conference and have people return, but we've tried to kind of keep it to them, you know, so that it ends, you can go have dinner with each other and...

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Go have, dare I say, a pub meetup? Yeah, you can do, let's just put it this way, you can do whatever you want when you leave the conference, that's fine.

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That's up to you. I mean, we're not condoning anything you would do, but just remember, lawful, profitable, let's keep those things in mind.

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Yeah, that's right. So somebody asked, did they share the dates and location already? ReformCon .org

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is where you go to the website to get all those details. The link is also in the description. Yeah, the dates again are...

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October 24th to 26th. Okay, 24th through 26th. And it's in Mesa. Mesa, Arizona.

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And we're talking about Stapley and University area for those guys that are in town.

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Well, and as we update, like I said, even if you register today and get a ticket today, if you keep returning to this website, you'll see more updates about speakers, you'll see updates about hotels.

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I'm working to try to get discounts on hotel rooms. Are you looking at the comments?

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Sorry, I'm trying to let Joy stop before I... Joy needs to read the comments. And yes, you can cosplay as John Calvin.

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Yeah. Actually, that was one of the things we tried to do the first time was get the people to cosplay. I came as Charles...

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Spurgeon. Charles Xavier Spurgeon. Remember? I was in a wheelchair.

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Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And no one else, literally no one else cosplayed. So yeah, we actually encourage you to show up.

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Yeah, it might be competition. Yeah. Okay, so Sheologians is the name of a podcast.

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Somebody said, Sheology sounds like feminist nonsense. Well, Smitty2000 really strongly encourage you, advise you actually to spend more time getting to know things before you make comments and leave records like that.

18:50

Sheologians is just the name of a podcast. And it's the anti -feminist podcast.

18:56

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, if you knew that... We literally have podcasts called

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Feminism is Poison. Yes. Don't worry. Literally titles of their podcasts,

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Feminism is Poison. Sheologians is, I know that people want to make it a thing, but it's seriously just, it's just a pun.

19:18

It's just a pun. On the word theologian. Yeah. It's really funny. Because they're girls. She's. Get it?

19:23

Get it? And actually, when we accepted that name as the name of our podcast, we were only okay with it if we could make fun of it a little bit.

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You know, let's have a good conversation here. I think this will be very helpful here. One of the things that I, and please, and can you turn it down just for a second?

19:41

Okay. So serious conversation right now. And I'm going to have all of you guys who love us, who are brothers and sisters in Christ to come in on this conversation right now.

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Because I think it's so, so, so important. I think one dramatic failing that we all have as Christians, brothers and sisters towards one another right now in this generation, like in this little era, this time that we're in right now, is specifically in the area of social media and grace less ness.

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And it's in terms of even like little moments like that. You know, sheologians. That sounds like feminist nonsense to me.

20:20

It's like, well, wait, wait, wait, hang on. Just take a breath for a second. Maybe assume the best about your sisters in Christ or your brother in Christ before you go nuclear.

20:31

Now you'll note that Apologia Studios, we actually take heat a lot of times from say, feminists, atheists,

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Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses. We take heat. As a matter of fact, we are heavily, heavily, heavily persecuted right now.

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In a specific area of ministry, I won't mention where right now, but we have people who are heavily, heavily under persecution right now who are members of Apologia Church and the work that we're doing.

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Yeah, we're not just talking about us. No, no. We're not even a small portion of what happens.

21:07

Yeah. And the accusation that's made is just that we are too abrasive.

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We are too straightforward with the truth. We're not loving enough and those sorts of things. Those things come our direction.

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But it's weird because on the other side, you have other people saying, praise God for Apologia Church and the witness of your graciousness and your humility and your kindness and everything else.

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But so the point is you can't please everybody. This isn't about pleasing everybody or placating to their sensitivities.

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My point is that when I say as a pastor, as a brother in Christ to you, when

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I say, look, we need to stop just immediately going nuclear, like it can't be like first step is drop the heresy bomb, drop the heretical bomb, drop like start cutting heads off immediately.

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Like don't do that. Like assume the best about somebody who professes faith in Jesus. Like, for example, in something like a brand name like Sheologians.

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It's just a pun. It's just a brand name for a podcast. It's just it's easy to remember and it's funny.

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And somebody thinks sounds like feminist nonsense to me. It's like if literally five minutes, five, one, two, three, four, five, five minutes of just examining the thread of Sheologians, you would have seen that they are hated by feminists.

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They are hated by those who hate a biblical form of maleness and femaleness.

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And it's probably one of the most hated like girl Theologian shows out there in terms of popularity and in terms of actual position and biblical stance.

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Like, but you don't give enough grace ahead of time to say, let me assume the best possible scenario right now before I go nuclear.

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Like I said, I'm all for going nuclear like the Apostle Paul in Galatians 1. When it's necessary. When it's necessary, he goes nuclear when necessary.

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Like, I hope you burn in hell forever, anathema kind of a thing. I'd say that's going pretty nuclear.

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But you notice that the Apostle Paul doesn't do that constantly. He's not constantly going nuclear.

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And guess who else wasn't going nuclear always? Jesus. Like, for example, do you ever notice that Jesus treats the woman at the well a bit differently, and she's still in sin.

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Then Jesus treats the religious hypocrites before the all of it discourse.

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Do you ever notice the difference in how he handles one sinner versus another sinner?

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It's not always nuclear with the Lord. Jesus went nuclear? Yeah, Jesus wasn't all about love all the time?

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No, Jesus uses a serrated edge. He definitely cut people. So my point is this. Like, I think like, honestly, this is like I'm saying to myself too.

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I am willing to bet that if you look back in my history through social media, if you look back, say, 2007, 2008,

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I'd be willing to bet you probably find some pretty nuclear things and graceless things from me as well on social media.

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I don't think you would really find it past then because I came under deep conviction, I remember, a long time ago that I need to love my brothers and sisters online and give them the benefit of the doubt and give them grace and mercy there too.

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So I just wanted to say that, guys. Please feel free to jump in this conversation. I just truly believe that this area of social media and the abuse of Christians on social media, it's something we should talk about because I think it's one of the dramatic failings of the

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Christian church today is we don't know how to actually live on social media. We don't act like Joy is a real sister in Christ as she's in front of me.

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I'm treating her on social media in a way I would never treat her face -to -face. And something's really wrong with that.

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I talk about this a lot. I call it drive -through theology. We're just so used to everything being so like this that we aren't willing to take the time to actually research things.

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We will maybe in person, but again, on social media, we're not, so to speak, and quick to listen.

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It's the exact opposite. It's like you see something, you're immediately just rattling off something. It's like you didn't even think before you typed that.

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And it's because we're used to everything so quick with social media and the way everything is, it's instantaneous. And it's trained us to not do the hard and dirty work for truth.

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We get questions all the time where it's like, literally, if you Google that question, you'll have 20 answers immediately.

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But people aren't even willing to go that far to Google it. They'll message us wanting us to give them the answer.

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That's what I call drive -through theology. That's not how this works. You don't get to just come in and push a button, and you get your answers, and you leave.

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You need to do the work, and you need to study, and you need to learn, and you need to love truth and not love laziness.

25:57

Yeah. People get frustrated when they can't learn everything in an instant or the opposite, which is you assume you learned everything in an instant.

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Right, right, right. And it's not like a condemnation of anyone that has done this.

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I think that there is a lot of Christians that are indeed believers that will be sanctified, and everyone has to work on it.

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Yeah. Oh, yeah, yeah. All of us. Yeah, there's a weird depersonalization that happens when you're talking to someone that you can't look at and that you can't touch or be in the same room with.

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Yes. But, yeah, I think it ultimately just comes down to loving neighbor. On the internet, it's like we've adopted a different doctrine in that regard.

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We've become lazy when it comes to loving our neighbor on the internet. Let's go with that. Absolutely.

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It's just like we don't even care to do it. It's like it's not even a practice.

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I don't have to. Right. Yeah. Because I don't have to ever look at you offended. But, I mean, honestly, you will come to some sort of confrontation with the things you've done in your life at some point.

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So let's not act as though the internet is just a big recycle bin that we constantly throw things into, and it means nothing.

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It should mean a lot, and I'm not totally trying to just plug ReformCon, but this is kind of the conversation that ReformCon is happening.

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This is a part of it. We probably need to get this on the page, but Acts 16 and 17 is the tagline verse for 2019

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ReformCon, and it says, Now, while Paul was waiting for them at Athens, his spirit was provoked within him as he saw that the city was full of idols.

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So he reasoned in the synagogue with the Jews and the devout persons and in the marketplace every day with those who happened to be there.

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So he didn't just kick the door down and be like, Listen here. He went regularly, reasoned with people, and he reasoned with devout persons, and he reasoned with common people in the marketplace.

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And that's a part of being in the marketplace, is that you still act like a

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Christian. You still act reasonable. You're capable of critical thought. When you become a

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Christian, there's an imputation that happens, but you're not automatically imputed with critical thinking skills.

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You need to practice and, you know, shape those.

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It just doesn't happen like that. I mean, that's how salvation works, but we need to just be a little bit smarter and better,

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I think. Amen to that. Yeah, amen. By the way, know this, that all this conversation happening is happening amongst us because we believe it applies, of course, to us equally and to all of us as a church.

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You know, I think that when you look at social media, the removal of accountability from this world can be damaging, very devastating if you think about it, because when you're sitting in a room with other believers, with other people, there's accountability because there's consequences.

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You have to look at that person. You can touch that person. But when there's this whole other world out there that you're in and you get to sort of put your avatar into, right, and you just sort of work around with no real consequences because there's no accountability.

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It's another world. Right. Yeah, that can take somebody who has a propensity towards sin, and it could turn them into a monster.

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And all of us are there. All of us have a propensity towards sin. All of us have that bent towards sin.

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Now, if you're in Christ, you have a hatred for your sin. God's sanctifying you, but you still struggle with sin.

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And, you know, one big thing that is a struggle for people when they get into theology is theology creates pride.

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You grow in your knowledge of God, and so you become prideful when, in reality, it should be actually the other direction you go.

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The more you grow in your knowledge and understanding of God and who He is and His goodness and His love and His grace and His mercy and how

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He controls the world, the more that it should actually humble you. But it doesn't tend to do that.

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It tends to actually turn people into pompous, arrogant people. They become arrogant and prideful.

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Why? Because they know more than the next guy. And so I would say read a lot of John 6 and John 10 where Jesus talks about how you are not able to come to Him unless the

30:42

Father who sent Him draws you, and He'll raise you up. Like, you have no ability outside of the sovereign will and act of God to come to God.

30:52

And so if you came to God, and if you know Jesus, that's an act of God's grace. Jesus says, I come down from heaven not to do my will, but the will of Him who sent me, that of all that He has given to me,

31:01

I should lose nothing, but raise it up at the last day. That's the gift of God. That's the gift of His grace. So if you know

31:07

Jesus, if you know God, if you're saved, that's a gift. It's a big, big gift, and nothing to be arrogant about.

31:14

Now, again, I'm not saying don't go nuclear when you have to.

31:20

I'm saying make sure it's when you have to. Make sure it's a have to. And we're going to talk about that stuff at ReformCon 2019.

31:29

ReformCon .org. ReformCon .org. Get your tickets. And I am very excited, by the way.

31:34

For everybody who's going to ReformCon, you're going to get that ticket to End Abortion Now, End Abortion Now conference one day.

31:41

Very excited, and I will confess, we want to get everybody from all over the country to come in so that we can actually send you back out across the country ready to fight.

31:52

So that's kind of the goal. Well, it's basically just the same theme as ReformCon 2019, but just specifically in a certain area.

32:02

Towards abortion. Yeah. Yes, exactly. All right. How are we doing on time? We're about halfway, so you want to do the commercials and then come back?

32:10

Yeah, let's do this. So, hey, guys, we're going to take a quick commercial break, and when we come back, we're actually going to finish reviewing a bit of a discussion between two guys professing

32:20

Christians. Yes. One claims to be a Christian, and he is also pro -choice.

32:25

Right. And so what we're going to do is take a quick break. Stay with us. Share the content. Make sure you guys go sign up for ReformCon at reformcon .org.

32:35

We will be right back. What kind of society will we be responsible for building, and what kind of people are we sending into the world?

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42:28

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42:59

So let's do it. Let's get right into it. We're going to finish up the show here today with just maybe a couple parts of this discussion between two professing

43:06

Christians. One says they are pro -choice. Yeah, I think at this point we might get through one little part. That's okay.

43:11

That's fine. This video, I put the link in the description, but it's like an hour long. And we started to go through this last time with Dusty Marshall and didn't get very far because it's so crazy.

43:22

So if you guys get a chance to watch and you want to know about some wax theology, this is where you're going to go. So, yeah, just as a reminder, this is his name is

43:31

Ruslan KD. He's like, I guess he's a big name in the hip hop community. He has a show he does, and he's with Dr.

43:38

Bruce Haskins. And so right now I'm just going to start playing where he starts talking about Bruce Haskins starts talking about how he is a

43:47

Christian and also pro -choice. There we go. Kind of explain as someone that identifies as a

43:57

Bible -believing Christian, you believe in the scriptures, but you lean towards a pro -choice position.

44:05

Yeah. Look, so understand this, folks. I'm taking this interview because Ruslan is the homie.

44:12

He's my man, 50 grand or so. But it's at great expense because my wife is definitely a pro -life person.

44:20

There you go. She is a hardcore pro -life person. Shout out to you,

44:26

Ms. Haskins. And we were just talking about this this morning. I was just telling Ruslan, I was like, yo,

44:32

I was talking to him. I don't know how that works. My wife and she was already getting heated about what it is that I was going to come in and talk about.

44:40

She was already triggered. Yeah, she was already triggered. And so I'm like, look, understand this. Completely understand that I live my theology.

44:48

I live it every day in my own household. I live it in my classrooms. And so one of the best ways for me to explain why

44:55

I am pro -choice is that I need people to really understand this. And this is, like I said, this is truly from the heart, is that pro -choice doesn't mean pro -abortion.

45:08

Explain that. Okay. So when I say that I want people to have choices, abortion has to be on the table for there to actually be a choice.

45:19

It's like, look, I don't know how biblical you want us to be in this moment.

45:25

I'm just going to be me. I'm just going to do me. It's like when you think about, and I in no way equate myself to God in any of this stuff.

45:31

What I'm saying, though, is that when God created Adam and Eve in the garden, there was that tree.

45:37

He could have left that tree out of the whole – the tree of life or whatever. He could have left that out of the garden, but then that wouldn't have been choice.

45:45

And so therefore, I get what people are saying. I am anti -abortion. I don't want –

45:50

I would never want anyone to have to take that option ever. And my daughter got –

45:58

So pause. All right. So do you guys want to jump in? There's some major category errors. Yeah, major category errors.

46:03

Go ahead. I want to hear what you have to say. Okay. Well, so I was going to say that the Scripture makes it very, very clear. First of all, we don't know a lot about Adam and Eve and their relationship with God.

46:13

All we do know is stuff throughout the Scriptures, little moments like Ecclesiastes, that when God created man, he created him upright.

46:20

So he was in a period of testing, and God essentially was testing

46:25

Adam. And in that moment, he gives him what he can do, and he says,

46:31

I'll bless you. And he gives him what he can't do, and I'll curse you. So, like, you'll die.

46:37

And so it's covenantal. Yeah, it's not really like a choice because either way –

46:43

It was covenant. Whatever he chooses to do, the covenant covers that. Yeah.

46:48

And even in that, you could assess that covenant and say there are things that you wouldn't want to – you wouldn't want to make the wrong choice because there's a consequence for it, and it's actually wrong and disobedient.

47:03

That's the point. You're talking about category errors. There was a part of that choice that was purely wicked.

47:11

It was evil. It was worthy of death. So when you talk about, like, well, he just needs to be there anyway.

47:17

It's like, well, wait a second. This was a covenant that God made with his image bearer, and in that covenant, he promises blessings and curses.

47:24

But don't forget that this is a sovereign God who already determined before the world began that he was allowing all this to take place, and he was going to give

47:32

Adam the ability to do what he wanted to do in that moment because he was ultimately bringing about his greater glory through the redemption of an undeserving people in Jesus Christ.

47:42

So Jesus Christ is a lamb slain before the foundation of the world. I don't want to go too fast here and just throw out a bunch of theological jargon, but just to say this, all of it was purposed and God planned before.

47:54

None of it was like, let's just see what happens. God actually creates, knowing full well, decreeing, actually, what is going to take place.

48:04

And, of course, Adam is acting according to his own likes and wants and desires. He's doing what he wants to do. But there's a covenant

48:10

God made with him. I'll bless you. I'll curse you. You'll die if you do this. Now, here's the thing. The fact that that tree was there, what was it that was so tantalizing and enticing about this thing?

48:22

It's, no, you won't die. So questioning God's, watch. So this is, by the way, it's all circles around the same issue.

48:31

What was the temptation? Hath God said?

48:37

Right. The temptation was to say, did God really say? Like the temptation was to question

48:44

God's self -attesting word. So God says, don't do it.

48:49

You eat, you'll die. Satan comes and says, hath God said? Really? He goes, no, you won't die.

48:54

You'll be like God, knowing good and evil. And that doesn't mean experiencing good and evil for yourself.

49:02

It means determining what is right and what is wrong for yourself. Knowing, being intimate with good and evil, right and wrong for yourself.

49:12

So God says he's the determiner of what's right and wrong. Right? And he says you're going to die if you eat it.

49:19

And what Satan says is, no, you won't die. You'll be like him. You will determine what's right and wrong.

49:25

You'll be the little gods in this system. And so that's really the temptation. And what's amazing about that temptation, if you want to call everyone's mind back to that moment in the garden, where God puts his image in the garden, and there's actually a word given saying yes and no, and Adam goes,

49:42

I'll go this direction because it looks good to me. That's a perfect example of the same situation we're dealing with when we talk about the issue of abortion.

49:49

God says in the womb, from the moment of conception, we have in the womb itself,

49:54

God knits us together in our mother's womb. We are fearfully and wonderfully made. You've got John the Baptist getting hops in the womb when he gets near Mary and Jesus, right?

50:04

He's filled with the Holy Spirit. You have all of these instances in Scripture that demonstrate that you have image of God, image of God, image of God from the womb, uniquely and wonderfully made.

50:12

That's God's self -attesting word, is that you have image of God, unique human being, and final word, and I'll shut up.

50:21

Law of God actually gives a case law example of if two people are struggling, and they cause the miscarriage of a woman who is with child, she's got a baby in the womb, then actually that's death penalty.

50:35

If you actually cause her to lose the life of her child, it can actually be considered manslaughter.

50:42

You've killed a human being, even though it's in the womb. It means little. Ultimately, it's just a little space.

50:49

It's just a little space between human and then outside, you know, inside the mom. So the point is the

50:55

Scripture is very, very clear abundantly, and if you want to recall the mind back to the garden, I would say let's talk about what the temptation was, and that was to question the self -attesting word of God.

51:06

So if you guys watch this whole episode, there's probably six or seven major topics that come up that you could spend a whole show on, just to throw that out there.

51:19

So we talked a little bit about this last week. He says, one, that he lives out of theology, which is important because as he talks more and more, it shows that he doesn't really believe much of what

51:31

God has said. There's some major issues there. And he says, I don't know how biblical

51:37

I should be. It's like, well, you should be totally biblical, actually, like completely, not just somewhat, like completely. But here's what

51:44

I found interesting in what he said. Before he gets to the garden thing where he says, well, I think everybody needs to have a choice and all that,

51:50

I mentioned last week later on he gets into the race issue, right? And he says that he makes the claim that this wasn't a big issue for white people until the black race started to become more than the white people in our nation.

52:09

And he actually makes that claim, and it's in regards to the conversation about Margaret Sanger and her desire to eliminate the black race.

52:16

That's his response, right? Okay, so he actually brings it up later. But this argument he's using, we know where to come from.

52:23

Slavery. Because that's what the slaveholders, or that's even the ones that were like, whatever, if you want to have a slave, that's your choice, because you need to have a choice.

52:32

I'm pro -choice. I'm not pro -slavery, but I'm pro -choice. That's the same argument. It's coming from that same group of people.

52:38

And it's honestly, it's a lazy, and I'll say sinful, and really just stupid argument.

52:46

So that's all I got. It's not critical. Well, I think it's a bit of a – I don't think you're really – so, okay, so we're all about pro -choice, the equivalent,

52:57

I guess, and this guy's mind is not pro -abortion, but it's pro -human autonomy.

53:04

People get to choose for their own thing. But I think if you think of God saying do this or die is a glorification of human autonomy, then

53:17

I feel like we've read different versions of the Bible. Right.

53:28

We don't have the ability to pick where we want to have lunch or to sin even.

53:35

It doesn't – like nowhere in that is God glorifying human choice.

53:41

He's actually saying when you choose your way, you choose death. That's not him glorifying human choice.

53:50

Right. That's not what's happening there. And if you think that like follow me or die is

53:56

God saying, well, I just want you to have a choice. Right. Yeah.

54:02

I feel like there's just a misunderstanding of the text there. Or it's not really a misunderstanding so much as it's allowing culture to like change and sort of mix up what – it's sort of letting culture impose on God and who he is and what he's saying when he says do this or die.

54:28

Yeah. It just shows you what his standards are, right? Because, again, if we reinstituted slavery, he wouldn't have that same opinion about slavery.

54:35

No, no, no. Right. Or if it's – Well, and he shouldn't. No, he shouldn't. Right. Or if it's about rape, for example.

54:43

I don't think he would say, well, I'm not for rape, but it's your choice. Like, no, that's not how this works.

54:50

We've got to at least have a choice. Yeah. Or a pederasty. Exactly. Or anything else. Especially in situations where God's law specifically says don't murder or die.

55:00

Right. I like that. Don't rape or die. Right, right, right. For example, like I like that we can appeal to scripture and actually show that kidnapping and enslaving other human beings was a capital crime.

55:13

It deserved the death penalty. I like that as Christians we can pull from that case law and that system of justice and say to the world today,

55:22

God's law condemns this outright, without question. I like that we can do that.

55:29

I wonder if our friend would also like to be able to do that, to say scripture condemns this and says it's a capital crime in terms of slavery, kidnapping.

55:37

I'm sure he would like that. But what I would ask is, do you like that law? And if he says,

55:42

I absolutely love that law, I'd say, well, then do you also like this one over here that says that if you, case law, if you cause the death of a baby in the womb, that that's also capital crime?

55:52

Right. Because you have to make sure that you hold to consistent standards. And if we want to say, look,

55:58

I love the image of God in scripture. Like, for example,

56:04

I think that we all need to uphold this. I think that white people need to uphold image of God. Black people need to uphold image of God.

56:12

Yellow people, red people, whatever color you are, we need to hold an image of God for one another.

56:18

And that should be the main thing is that we're not just animals or rocks. We are image bearers of God.

56:25

And that's why we can't abuse somebody because of the color of their skin. But look, if we want that part of the biblical worldview, then we had better be willing to accept all the rest of it too.

56:36

Like, what helped to abolish slavery? It wasn't atheism or agnosticism.

56:41

It wasn't humanism. It was Christianity. It was the biblical worldview that says that's the image of God.

56:47

It's not just a beast, like people were saying. It's not just a brute beast. It's an image bearer of God.

56:54

We're all created equal in the eyes of God. And that was what did away with slavery. It was a

56:59

Christian worldview that actually gave it some punch. It's what moved it along. Well, if we want to have the same kind of devastating impact in the world for peace and justice and equality, then it's got to be across the board like it was when we were fighting against abortion.

57:15

Sorry, slavery. Well, it has to happen right here in this issue too with abortion. Because look, we have not long ago in our history, we've had these two classes of people, and we should keep talking about it.

57:27

We've had black people and we've had Jews. Two massive incidents, cultural incidents, where we have a whole group of people that were actually put under the feet of other people because of the color of their skin or because of their background or ethnicity.

57:43

It's so fresh in our memory. How can we possibly be struggling right now in the

57:49

West with another instance of image bearers of God being traumatized and brutalized and murdered when we literally have just had black people.

58:00

Now we overcame that. And then we had Jews, and we overcame that. And now we're over here and we're like, no, let's get to the most innocent and vulnerable.

58:09

It's like before, you move down the line and it's wicked all the way across.

58:15

But then we decide in the 1970s with Roe v. Wade, we decide let's make it the most innocent and vulnerable.

58:23

It's madness. And I want to say I don't like when you see today a lot of the social justice warriors.

58:32

I'm not saying this guy is, but I'm saying across the board, you've got like the social justice warriors and intersectionality and all these people that are trying to use

58:39

Christian terminology to push leftist, liberal, Marxist ideology.

58:46

I don't like it. I don't appreciate people borrowing capital from the Christian worldview and then infusing those ideas with Marxist ideology and leftist ideology and then calling it

59:00

Christianity. Let's just be honest with who you are. You're not being Christian. You're not representing the

59:06

Christian worldview. If you're going to be Christian, be a Christian. Like I said at the beginning of the show, if you're going to go nuclear, then go nuclear over things that are true and worthy of being nuclear.

59:16

The thing that's killing me with this race aspect around abortion, and here we are, a bunch of white people talking about this, automatically we're racist and not allowed to have this conversation, right?

59:31

Yeah, according to some people. But what kills me honestly is

59:36

I love people in general. I don't care what color your skin is, and I want to rescue these babies that are being saved.

59:43

I don't care what color their skin is, but I don't know if you saw this. This kind of brings it into another kind of side discussion, but did you see the thing with the

59:51

Betty Ross shoes this last week? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so if you're not familiar with that, Nike came out with a special edition shoe for the 4th of July called the

59:58

Betty Ross shoe, and it had like the 13 stars. They actually were really cool shoes. I liked them. But Colin Kaepernick, if you know him, he's been big in the race push and all that.

01:00:10

He threw a fit and said basically he was triggered because these shoes, you know, they're the 13 states, and they had slaves and like all this stuff.

01:00:17

And so Nike pulled, even though they had already shipped out all these shoes and made them, they pulled them, right, so they're not selling, they're getting rid of them.

01:00:23

And so there's this group of people, you know, that happen to be black that are upset, they're triggered about this because of the states, they had slaves, and it makes them upset.

01:00:32

But then it's the same group of people that are pushing for abortion, that are pushing for the support of Planned Parenthood.

01:00:39

And Planned Parenthood is actively from the beginning trying to eliminate their race, their ethnicity, their, and you know, we don't like to use even the word race, but like their color of their skin.

01:00:51

They're trying to actively eliminate them off the face of the earth, and they're supporting it, but they're upset about these shoes. And it's like, it just, it's frustrating.

01:00:57

And it angers me because, you know, it's like, what are you, what are you doing? It's hypocrisy.

01:01:03

It is hypocrisy. It's hypocrisy. And hopefully we can put together some content that'll help expose some of that hypocrisy.

01:01:10

Did you finish that book yet? I finished it this weekend. I'm almost done. Oh my goodness. Yeah, yeah. Which is, I mean, which is just another promise that like, if you don't, if the

01:01:19

Bible and God's word, if God's word isn't your source of wisdom, you'll be a fool.

01:01:26

Yeah. So it's just another consistent, according to the Bible, this is all still not a surprise.

01:01:33

This is all still totally consistent with who God is. That's right. They can't be consistent at all because they've rejected any sort of objective standard for truth or meaning or what makes a person in the image of anything and not just like the same as the table that we're in front of.

01:01:58

That's right. That's right. Good show today. Yeah. All right, guys. So thank you guys for watching and listening and sharing.

01:02:05

Don't forget to go to reformcon .org. Get those tickets right away. I want to remind you again, we have limited space available at the event.

01:02:14

And don't forget, you also get a free ticket to the End Abortion Now conference happening directly after ReformCon on that Saturday.

01:02:21

So go to reformcon .org, book your tickets right away. Come out and hang out with us.

01:02:26

Come out and see us. Come out and eat with us. Come out and get fed with us from some amazing teachers.

01:02:32

Get your tickets, get them right away. Because I assure you, we're going to run out of space quickly. Yes. And so make sure you do that as soon as possible.

01:02:41

Reformcon .org. Don't forget, guys, go to apologiastudios .com to get more. That's Luke the Bear. Peace out.