Matt Slick Live: January 28, 2025

The following program is recorded content created by The Truth Network.

It's Matt Slick Live. Matt is the founder and president of the Christian Apologetics Research Ministry, found online at karm .org. When you have questions about Bible doctrines, turn to Matt Slick Live for answers.

Taking your calls and responding to your questions at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Technical Setup and Upcoming Eastern Orthodox Discussion

All right, everybody, welcome back to the show. I hope you guys are going to have a good time. I am working up, literally, up to the announcement. That's how busy I have been recently. And hopefully everything's working fine.

You guys can hear me everywhere. We have Clubhouse opened back up. It seems to be working fine. I rebuilt my computer yesterday. Good thing I'm an ex-computer tech and know how to do all that kind of stuff.

Got it going. I did it about once a year and had to get that going. All right. If you want to give me a call, all you have to do is dial 877 -207 -2276. It is easy to do. I want to hear from you. So give me a call.

All right. We got that going. We got that going. We got that. We got that. We're going. I think it's right there. And there we go. All right. Hey, we got nobody waiting. And open calls. And if you want, you can send an email to info at carm .org.

Info at carm .org. And put in the subject line, radio comment, radio question. Radio comment, radio question. And hopefully everything will work out there. You should be able to get to us. And let's see.

I think that's it. I don't know why it's not working right now. This thing, it should be adjusting, but it's not doing it. I don't know what's going on. Why is that not working? You know, when you do something, when you change a little something, it can be difficult when you're trying to work on eight things at once, which I'm trying to do right now, trying to get it all to work.

So I'll just continue to do that. At any rate, I want to hear from you. Give me a call, 877 -207 -2276. All right. Now, recently, I was asked to speak at an online conference on Eastern Orthodoxy, Eastern Orthodoxy.

And I do plan to do that. I'm going to be speaking on the, it's hard to describe, but the sacramental system of salvation and also the priesthood in the Eastern Orthodox Church. So it's going to be, for me, it's going to be a very interesting discussion because the, as you guys, well, as you guys know, I really study this stuff a lot and I seek to present, let's see, how do I say this?

Present the most accurate information I can in order to represent the other side properly. And I, you know, I try to make sure that I'm representing everybody and everything accurately. So one of the things that's come up recently is that I'm going to be meeting with some, with some, with some people who are, how do I say this?

Some actual Eastern Orthodox people who defend the Eastern Orthodox faith. And what they're going to do is they're going to talk with me about the certain doctrines. I said, look, I want to, because they know I'm against Eastern Orthodoxy.

And so I said, look, what I'd like to do is just ask you a bunch of questions. Just get in and just ask questions. And they've agreed to do that. So I've asked for documentation. I've asked for all kinds of information.

And they said they're going to provide this kind of a stuff. So this is what I'm looking for. And I'm hoping it's going to work out very, very well, very nicely getting as much information as I can from them.

And we'll just see how that goes. So all I can do is try and I'm going to continue to work on that and continue to do that. So there you go for that. Like I said, give me a call, 877 -207 -2276. I did download all kinds of new stuff and get things going different ways.

We're going to get the system going today. And I'm still working on trying to make it work. So we'll just see what happens. All right. We got a caller coming in. And like I said, if you want to give me an email, you can at info at karm .org, info at karm .org.

And we can get into the questions that you offer. Now, what I would ask that if you do that, that you would simply put in a subject line radio comment or radio question. And then we can get to the stuff.

That's what we do right there. Radio comment or radio question. And that's it. It's easy to do. Okay. All right. All right. So we have, like I said, we have a caller coming in, but it's acting a little bit funny.

And I don't know what's going on. Maybe they're, are they having phone problems? I don't know. Let me just kind of ask. And this is what happens when you allow, when you rebuild a system. So, all right.

I don't see anything, but I'll ask him to see. So what does Eastern Orthodoxy teach? Sacerdotal salvation is something really simple. I'm going to talk about it. Sacerdotal salvation is the idea that a person is saved by this participation in the sacraments.

That as long as you are keeping sacraments, as long as you're doing that kind of thing, communion, baptism, they call it the Eucharist, varying things that their church says you have to do in order to receive the grace by which you are then enabled to have grace change you to make you more like a good Christian.

And so in that, you are able to be saved. So that's what they're teaching. And so this, we call it sacramental salvation. And I'll be dealing with that. I'll be going through the East Orthodox sacraments, what they call the sacraments, and analyzing the documentation and analyzing the stuff that people give me on what it is they actually teach.

Now let me just tell you again that it's really difficult to get a lot of information from the Eastern Orthodox because they really don't write any official systematics that are officially stated. And because of that, it's difficult, or it just makes it more difficult to be able to find out the detailed teachings of their positions.

What you have to do instead is read, read, read a lot. And you get a gist of what it is they're saying. And then with that, you posit what it is they mean by it. And then you hopefully are able to represent them properly.

And so it may sound a little bit odd, but that's what they have to do in order to get it to work right, to get them to deal with the, you know, well, what is it you're saying? That's not what we teach.

Well, that's what you're, you know, so-and-so said. And they say, well, that's not what we mean, and things like that. So it gets difficult sometimes, but we'll be working on that. Let's get to Germaine.

I can't activate him. Don't know why, but let's get to Germaine. If the producer can do that, and we will get to him. All right. I can't get him to activate. Germaine, are you there? Testing one, two.

I just stepped away really fast. We'll get to him a little bit because the producer had to leave. So we'll work on that in a little bit as well. All right. Man, this is happening. So sacerdotal salvation is salvation by works, by ceremonies, by doing the things that you want to do according to their church.

This is what really bothers me a lot about different churches is particularly these what's called apostolic churches. They claim to be the successors of the apostles. And they will then say that in order for you to be saved, you have to trust in their system.

It's a system of salvation. It's not justification by faith. It's a system of salvation. The system is by faith and keeping the commandments and participating in sacraments. It's a system. Now, what's really disturbing is that this Eastern Orthodox Church is gaining ground.

People are joining it. This is what I've been hearing, that they're more and more interested in accepting the Eastern Orthodox Church. That is true. I'm just blown away by that. I don't see how anybody could do that if they understand what the Bible really is.

So it just doesn't make any sense to me. Hey, Jermaine, welcome, buddy. You're on the air.

All right. Yes, I'm here.

All right, man. So what do you got, buddy? What's up?

Yeah, I just want to discuss 1 Corinthians chapter 15, verses 55 through 57. The verse starts with, O death, where's thy sting? And what brought that to my attention is I see a lot of believers that really do have a fear of death.

And I'm just kind of wondering if a lot of the reason for that fear is maybe we don't know as much as we should about what's over there with the Lord versus over here. And I just kind of want to know, did that verse kind of apply to that fear?

And I want to hear what you have to say about it.

Well, yeah, it's a natural phenomenon to be afraid of death. We can have our faith and we do. But it's difficult to, how do I put this? It's difficult to just get rid of all the fears of the process of dying, of increasing pain, of lack of efficiency and darkness overtaking you permanently, so to speak.

So for a lot of people, it can be very difficult. And anybody who is afraid of death, I never look down upon them. I understand it. I don't look forward to it. I'm trusting my Lord. I know I'll be with Him.

And that's an issue by faith. So all I can do is trust in Him and hope in Him. And so when others have that same issue, it's a natural issue. Now when it comes to the scriptures, by faith we trust. By faith we believe that we're going to be resurrected, that Jesus rose from the dead.

And let's just say nobody has 100 perfect faith. So that we do struggle sometimes in varying areas. And it's just a normal thing. Okay? So that's why people are concerned about dying out of.

Depression at 15 and stuff like that. Okay? Okay. Can I ask a quick follow-up? Sure. Go ahead. Sure. Okay. So I've seen some other people who was just the opposite where they, either they were going through an extreme amount of pain mentally, physically, or they were just old.

Like my grandmother was almost 100 and she was more than ready to go. Like they almost had an excitement about getting out of here and not having to deal with, you know, whatever. Is that an increase in faith or just being wary of the flesh?

Could be. We don't.

Know their hearts. But when I was an assistant pastor at a church, there was a 90-something year old woman I went to see as part of just, you know, comforting the sick and the ill. And she died two or three weeks after I visited her.

And she was a devout Christian. And I just, I'll never forget her saying, I'm looking forward to going home and being with my Lord Jesus. I just never forgot that, you know? And so maybe there's something to the idea that the closer you get to that, the more, I don't know, the more grace he gives you.

I don't know, but it's, we just don't know until we're there, you know? Yeah.

That makes a lot of sense. All right. Well, thank you, man. I appreciate you.

All right, buddy. God bless. God bless. All right. Hey folks, if you want to give me a call, the number is 877 -207 -2276. I want to hear from you. Give me a call. Oh, and there's the music. We've got one caller waiting, Brad from North Carolina.

We'll get back to him right after these messages. Please stay tuned.

It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Adam and Eve, Death, and the Origin of Sacrifice

Hey everybody, welcome back to the show. If you want to give me a call, it's easy. Just dial 877 -207 -2276. We just lost the other guy there, so I think it was, the question was Adam and Eve saved, will they go to heaven?

And the answer is, yeah, they were. They were saved. And the reason we would say that is because the pre-incarnate Christ, as he walked in the garden of Adam and Eve, was able to, and did, cover them with animal skins.

Now, it does not say that he killed an animal in order to do that, but it does say covered with animal skins. The implication is that an animal was sacrificed. An animal was killed because of the way Jesus sinned his death, and it wasn't until after Adam and Eve sinned that this death then occurred in the world.

And I think what's interesting is that God, it looks like, it appears to be, that God is the one who killed something first biologically to actually cease its biological life then and there. Adam and Eve were killed spiritually, but their biological life continued after they sinned.

And so immediately what we see is the pre-incarnate Christ in the garden, who it appears to be. The reason I say it appears to be because there's no scripture that definitively says that an animal was killed, but it does say provided with animal skins, that's consistent, the shedding of blood for the forgiveness of sins.

It's consistent biblically, so that's why I say it certainly appears to be the case that an animal was killed, maybe a sheep, in order to cover Adam and Eve with these garments. So if this is the case, think about this, that a garment, a lot of times we think of things in modern terms, a garment like a shirt, a pair of pants, whatever, it's all clean, it's all new.

And so we kind of project the idea that it's new, this new garment's all clean. But if it is the case that an animal was shed, then the skin would have been ripped off, cut off, I don't know, and then applied to Adam and Eve.

So was it a bloodied garment or not? The Bible doesn't say. So I can't say it is, but it would make sense to say that if it was a bloodied garment and that blood touched them, this is reminiscent, typological, of the sacrifice of Christ that was to come.

And so by the pre-incarnate Christ shedding blood, He was instituting the sacrificial system that He Himself would undergo later on. And what I think is interesting is that it was God who offered the sacrifice and God who took that sacrifice.

And He provided for Himself the sacrifice. So God went and found that animal, killed that animal, removed the skin, the garment, the skin, and then covered them with it in the garden. And Jesus was in the Garden of Gethsemane, which I've been there, it's interesting.

And then He went to the cross where the blood is shed, and the Garden of Gethsemane is really close to Golgotha, the place of the skull. I've seen it, really close. You can walk to it in a minute or two.

And so it just all makes sense as you put these things together to see how things work. I like to see the patterns that God has. I like to see what He does and how wonderful He is in His presentation of the gospel.

All right, let's get.

To Ray from Virginia. Ray, welcome. You're on the air. Good evening, Matt. I listen to you often. Always got this query or question or, you know, assumption from people at times, and I wanted to know where I could find or continue to research this, the question of if Adam and Eve were the only ones, they had Cain and Abel, and when Cain was expulsed, apparently there were other people on the earth.

Where can I get some answers on that? Sure. So you're asking, I'm repeating this.

Because we're having a little bit of an audio issue. So we want to know where the other children came from that'd be married, right? So what you do is you go to Genesis 4, I believe it's Genesis 4 .1, and there it says the man had relations with Eve.

You can see it gave birth to Cain, and she said, I've got a man-child. And where is it? It says, you hear a lot of background noise there, but I'll.

Keep going. I'm sorry, it's just my truck. I'm driving a truck. That's okay. That's all right,.

It happens. So he said he had other children, and it actually says so, and other children he had. So that's what's going on, is he just had more children. Now, we don't know how long it was before Adam and Eve were alive, before they fell.

Personally, I don't think it was very long. That's just my position. It's not very long at all. So once they had children, they had a lot of children.

That's it. That's great. Thank you very much. I'll research that more, because I get a lot of folks that kind of pose that question or just try to make it a conversation. I can't add to it at all. Thank you very much for clarity on that.

I'll research it. Thank you.

It's actually, I've got a verse. It's Genesis 5 .4. All right. And he had other sons and daughters. Yeah. So then what's going to happen is people are going to say, well, that's incest. And you say, yes, it was.

Their genetic line was perfect. It was pure. So this could happen. They could marry their sisters and brothers. They could do that and have children, and it wouldn't be genetic deformity. It wasn't until later on that this was forbidden.

And that's the case. Okay.

Interesting. Thank you very much for clearing that up. God bless.

God bless. All right. Okay, brother. All right. If you want to give me a call, we have three open lines, 877 -207 -2276. Mike from Toledo. Welcome. You're on the air.

Hi, Matt. Can you hear me okay on my rinky-dinky government cell phone?

Yes, I hear you, brother. I hear you. What's up, man?

Okay. I wanted to comment on, I believe it was your mail caller. He would now be three or four calls behind where he was talking about people and who are close to death and why are they apprehensive? Is it their faith or is it the fact that they're not a true believer?

And I kind of had a thought when I heard that, what's the old adage saying? You're kind of apprehensive to try something new. Yeah. People are still afraid of death because.

We live by faith, not by sight. So it's a tough thing. And even Christians can have those moments of, okay, what's really going to happen? But they're trusting anyway. And so this is just.

Normal. Yes. Well, true, true. But it's like the first time you ever rode your bike, you were a little apprehensive. The first time you ever tried to cook an egg. So I kind of had a laugh about that. But at the same time, yeah, I know what you mean.

I'm 65. I've been in and out of the faith, I guess you could say. A lot of the childhood things and growing up in that, I had a lot of struggling inter-emotionally. And now I'm kind of physically disabled in some areas.

But, you know, I listen to the radio. There's a break coming up. You want to hold on, brother? You want to hold on? Okay. Sure. I'll talk to you some more. Thank you. All right. Folks, we'll be right.

Back after these messages. If you want to give me a call, the number is 877 -207 -2276. We'll be.

Right back. It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

All right. Welcome back to the show. Thanks for waiting and being patient. Let's get back on with Mike from Toledo. Okay, Mike, do you have one more question or anything?

Well, not really. Just kind of wanted to mention that, you know, I listen to your show off and on when I can get it on. I have like about seven different religious stations, so I kind of flip around like you would with a TV surfing.

But I like listening to you. I've heard some interesting.

Callers from you. Well, good. I hope that some of those aren't Catholic and that you're being seduced by the false teachings of Catholicism, because that's bad. No, no, I get the ones I.

Usually pick up on your station. And when I do listen to people that argue about something and, you know, if they just opened up the pages in between the two covers of the hard book, they might actually be able to decipher and discern a little more better than what some of said.

Instead of just getting a hot head and going, well, that's not right.

Yeah, that's true. That is true. Well, good. I'm glad that, you know, you're listening. So keep listening, because there's a lot more to say. And hopefully, by God's grace, we'll really be, well, you know, adding stuff, you know.

Okay.

Yep. And I'll tell you what, I heard about you having to have a little debate with the Eastern Orthodox. I will pray for you on that one. I'm sure that they're going to be challenging.

Oh, yes, they are. They're all challenging. I think I'll give, after you're gone, what I'll do is I will mention one of the things that they do. And it's out of a Mormon, actually. It'll do that. Yeah.

They twist things. Yeah. Oh, yeah. And just like the Mormons and the Jehovah's.

And a few other different brands out there that claim, you know, Jesus and Satan are twin brothers. Yeah. Okay. I don't see where that says it in the Bible. But, you know, hey, that's what.

You want to believe. That's what happens. Mormonism is not Christian, that's for sure, even though they say they are. In fact, it reminds me of going into Instagram and I don't know what happened. I don't go on there.

And I just started going on to check things out and just getting flooded with Mormon posts, how great Mormonism is. So I wrote up a paragraph to put in there, just documented from Mormon sources. There's many gods.

There's a goddess mom, all this weird stuff from Mormonism that just makes it not Christian. And I just paste them in. I just paste it in to these very things. I don't say they're Christian or not Christian.

I just paste it. That's what they're teaching. So hopefully it will cause conversations and people to realize how aberrant, how off the mark.

The Mormon church is. Oh, it is so bad. Oh, yeah. It's it's kind of a latch, a last ditch effort to get people, you know, like some of these other ones, kind of like your TV, you know, you know, and I can't say the word, but the TV evangelist go, yeah, go, you know, hey, um, you know, God will really save you and all this.

But, you know, I think he needs a small donation first. Okay. Yeah, that's right. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And then and then, you know, they they act like they're so poor in spirit and, you know, humility and they're so humble, but they've got the yacht and, you know, a few things that you don't see.

Yeah, it's okay to have those things,.

But as long as they're not the whole thing, it's just that what it does is it uses it uses Christian words, but it changes the meanings of the words and then they appeal. Yeah, yeah. A great deal of emotion.

You know, yeah, I feel so wonderful and family forever and it just sounds so good. And and then they I've seen a lot of the videos are kind of condescending when they they talk about how we the anti Mormons don't really understand them.

And I guess we do. You better believe we understand you. And it's really kind of interesting. So,.

Okay, buddy, we got some callers and move along. All right. All right. You guys take it easy. Be.

Safe wherever you are. All right. Okay. God bless. All right. Now let's get to next longest waiting is. Let's see. Let's get to. Come on. Here we go. Mario from North Carolina. Mario, welcome.

You're on the air. Oh, thank you, Matt. God bless you, brother. Yeah, I have I have questions regarding your your take on immigration policy now that a lot of things have been changing lately. I've been noticing my entire family is, you know, I come from a family of pastors, evangelical pastors myself.

So I grew up in Christianity, but I have never seen so much hate from the Christian community towards strangers and immigrants. And that's not a biblical hatred. Yes. Even even from pastors. And how do you define that?

How do you define that? How do you define hatred, hate, hatred? I define it as closing doors, not being merciful and compassionate about the needs of the poor, the naked, the naked and the. Let me ask you.

Something. Should we allow just allow people to just cross the borders from all over and sort of the southern border? This is not political, Matt. This is this is I'm talking about Bible and I know I got you political issue, but the Bible, the Bible also says I got you.

Yeah. But the Bible also the Bible also says to submit to the elders in the church and the government, the rulers and stuff is to submit to them. So it should. I'm just asking you since the the law of the land is that you come in, just come in, but do it legally.

That's all.

It is. Would you say that you're making it political and that's contrary to God's word?

And no, it's not. No, it's not. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. It's not contrary to speak about politics from the Bible. Yes, it is. OK. OK. Hold on. Let me explain. Jesus said,.

Rendered a Caesar. What is Caesar's? If you read Matthew twenty five. Mario,.

Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario, Mario. So does not Jesus say to render to Caesar, what is Caesar's and to God, what is God's? Is that not a political statement about Caesar being in control politically?

Is that not the case with Jesus? But if he goes to to escape, Mario, you answer the question, Mario, you have to answer the question. Is it a political statement Jesus is making when he says render to Caesar what belongs to Caesar?

Is it political or not? And what is Caesar's in this case?

Caesar was the emperor and he was the governmental head in the Roman Empire.

No, but what does it mean to give Caesar. What is Caesar? What do you what do you get?

It means to submit. It means to submit in taxation in the context. It means to submit in the rule that was not ungodly to what was going on. So that's it. So did you know being.

Unmerciful to your neighbor? Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Love you, God.

It's been a moment. But for all of you, you don't want to go. It's been a day. It's been a day. See. OK. It's been a moment. OK.

No, I'm not listening to you, but you're not listening to me.

Yes, I am. But you're not listening. Look, two days ago, I'm picking up medicine for my wife and I'm in the first one in line at a pharmacy into my in the front to the left. I could tell he was an illegal alien.

I didn't say anything. I didn't do anything. He's using his phone to get medicine. You know, he was illegal alien. OK, Mario, if you don't let me finish talking, I'm not going to have you talk anymore.

OK. All right. All right. He didn't speak any English and he was using his phone to try and and communicate. And look, I used to live in San Diego. I know what illegals look like. I know. OK. And I have a friend who's a border patrol.

He taught me all kinds of stuff. You're being prejudiced now. OK, so here we go. We're dropping you because you don't let me finish. You won't let me finish my sentences and you're not listening. So you're gone.

All right. Now, what I was going to do was step up and help him get his medicine. I was going to speak Spanish and help him get what he needed so that he could go for whatever need it was. It's not being unmerciful.

It's not being unkind. It's being helpful. Now, we need as as Christians to submit to the laws of the land and the laws of the land say we are to to have people come in across our borders legally. That's all it is.

It's not being unmerciful to say, I'm sorry, you came in illegally. You broke the law. You need to be gone. That's lawful. It's law. That's what we should be doing, because so many of these people who've come in are murderers and we have terrorists who've come in from China.

We know that there are people coming in to steal our secrets. We know people from the Middle East have swarmed in by the thousands. We've got to be careful. We've got to get rid of them. I agree. And then just have them come in legally.

That's all we're saying. And it's not unmerciful. It's not being unkind to do that either. So when I was in in San Diego and I used to work at a hospital speaking Spanish to register patients, I could tell when they they were newly across the border.

I could tell. And I never turned them in. I wasn't going to turn them in. They're there for help. Just show them compassion. They need it. And that's what they should be doing. You should need to be able to be safe to be able to get medicine and help.

That's not a problem. We need to adhere to the laws of the land as much as we can. We'll be on the phone back with Scott after the break. Please stay tuned.

It's Matt Slick live, taking your calls at 877 -207 -2276. Here's Matt Slick.

Immigration, Mercy, and Submission to Civil Authority

Okay, everybody, welcome back to the show. Sorry for the tech problems we're having, but we are. And at least on my end, you guys don't hear it in the radio area. Let's get to Scott from Spokane. Scott, welcome.

You're on the air, buddy.

Hey, Matt, how have you been lately?

Super busy.

Yeah, same here, my friend. And so, yeah, it sounds like you just figured that out. I wanted to let you know that on Rumble and on YouTube, you can only hear your voice and not the audience, but it sounds like you figured that out.

Is that right?

Yeah, yeah, it's just I have to reboot the computer to hopefully activate the new microphone that we put in because I didn't do that before, et cetera, et cetera. As a computer tech, sometimes things don't get picked up, even though it's dynamic, it should be ready.

But it's a different kind of a setup. So, yeah, I've been rebuilding my computer now for about 24 hours, putting stuff together, getting it all ready to go. That's all. Okay.

Okay, well, good. So I'm glad I got through. I've been attempting to call for like weeks now, and I keep calling at the tail end and not having enough time. Anyway, so I have a couple of really good questions.

The first one is in Zechariah chapter five and five. I'm just running this by you. I would appear that I might have found a verse that indicates female angels in verse nine.

Yeah, that's one of the places two women are coming out with the wind in their wings. They had wings like wings of a stork, and they lifted up the ephod before between the earth and the heavens. That's the only place you can go to in the Bible where it might mean something like an angel might.

So let's look at verse five. We have the context and the angel who was speaking with me went out and said to me, lift up now your eyes and see what is going forth. I said, what is it? And he said, this is the ephod going forth.

Again, he said, this is their appearance in all the land. And behold, a lead cover, excuse me, lead cover was lifted up. And this is a woman sitting inside the ephod. So it's a vision that's happening.

He said, this is wickedness. And he threw her down in the middle of the ephod and cast a lead weight on its opening. But I looked up the eyes and looked, there were two women coming out with the wind in their wings.

So they had wings, et cetera. I said to the angel who was speaking with me, where are they taking the ephod? So it doesn't say they're angels. Some could interpret it as angels in a feminine sense. And I don't have any problem with that.

That's what the Bible teaches. But this is not a very good place, or it's not proof that that is the case, because it's a vision and don't know what those women represent.

Okay. Okay. Those are sort of my thoughts also. And just a quick question. What is an ephod?

Oh, what's an ephod? An ephod is, let me look. I used to know that. Come on. What is that? An ephod? You know what? What is an ephod? You should usually see my notes right there. Let me try this. I know what an ephod is.

An ephod. It is, let's see. I think it's a measurement. An ephod. That's right, it was. So like a certain amount, like a bushel and things like that. It's what it is. So an ephod, that's right. This is an ephod going forth.

This is their appearance. And that'd be, you know, that's really interesting. What is that in light of that? That's a good question. In light of that, what's an ephod? Huh. This is what's going forth, and it's the ephod.

So I'm looking, trying to find it in the Hebrew to, I can't really find it. Why is this interesting? This is, oh, there it is right there. So I click on that, and why is it not opening? It won't open.