June 10, 2020 Show with Randy Hekman on “Sweeter by the Dozen: Making Jesus the Lord of Our Family Size”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

It's iron sharpens iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues facing

the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us.

Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have in view in conversation To make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours.

And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions, and now here's your host Chris

Arnzen.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

Lake City, Florida.

And the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth.

We're listening via live streaming at iron sharpens iron radio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Wednesday on

this 10th day of June 2020.

And I'm very delighted to have on the program for the very first time someone who comes

by a very high recommendation from Reformation Heritage Books and That is

Randall Heckman.

Randy is a retired juvenile court judge who has headed several Christian nonprofit

organizations Committed to benefiting families.

He's the executive director of the Grand Awakening and husband of Marsha for more than

50 years Having parented with her their one dozen children.

And today we're going to be addressing a book By Randy published by Reformation Heritage Books

sweeter by the dozen making Jesus the Lord of our family sighs.

And it's my Honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time to iron sharpens iron radio

Randy Heckman.

Well, thank you Chris.

Great, and it's a delight to have you and let me.

Give our listeners our email address should they want to join us on the air with a question of their own.

Our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com chris Arn

z en at gmail .com and as always, please give us your first name at least.

Your city and state of residence in your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private

matter.

What we usually do on this program is a tradition Randy is when we have a first -time guest.

We have them give a summary Of their salvation testimony, but before we do that, I'd

like you to tell our listeners about the Grand Awakening.

Sure, appreciate that the Grand Awakening.

We've been existence about five year again as we

ready.

I mean I have a background in 15 years.

At one point I actually ran for US Senate.

I've worked in a nonprofit that dealt with Communicating family issues to our state government.

So I get government.

But we've got some major problems in America today that I don't believe government we have

problems in America, are you kidding?

But government is that public policy or

government is a lagging indicator and I agree with that but I go one

step deeper.

I believe the problems with the

culture.

We

have a

heart party my group my whatever

and the gimme gimme gimme and.

Regrettably that attitude is in the church.

It's in me.

Well, we gotta serve and

give his life

as far as we go away.

So, how do we change hearts?

We got a heart problem.

We need we need people to come to faith in Christ and to be and how do you do

that in a way in history?

Awakenings or revivals greater.

That's been our prayer.

That is our goal and we praying for a

Spanish country.

But we'd love to see it start here in the west side of Michigan.

Well bringing ultimately

great and for those of you listening you want to find out more about the Grand Awakening you can go to Grand.

Awakening org.

Grand awakening org.

Okay.

Well if you could let us know something about what kind of

Religious atmosphere if any you were born and raised in and what kind of problem.

What kind of providential Circumstances are a sovereign Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself and

saved you.

I love that question point to a specific period

of time.

But I was

raised he

was our background is a

mentor

church once a week and turn down in

the heart or in the life

Chicago area

and

for

my life.

He loves me knows me better than anyone

out on one

day I

remember I was

okay.

How many

days from plan for my life?

If he says my life counted it count.

If he says my life didn't count it didn't count.

So I wanted to count to that

point, but they even got

better and God just opened up huge including

Ultimately meeting my dear wife Marcia praise

God.

Well, I'd like to hear more about.

This brave woman Marcia how you met where you met and sure

and how you entered into a journey of a lifelong journey of marriage together we.

Again, I attended undergraduate school at MIT in the Boston area and Marcia went

to Northern, Illinois University.

We actually, you know did not know each other, but we're both involved in campus crusade for Christ now called crew.

She actually came to faith in Christ her freshman year at the Northern, Illinois.

Through crew and I mean, I mean

she's been from a Christian home.

They all came to Christ and I mean she she hasn't quit yet.

In fact, I was looking at her just some of our neighbors.

That's my dear wife now that I don't share but I mean she really she's amazing on

those lines.

But anyhow, so she came to faith through crew and I was involved in crusade figured, you know, I may as

well, you know.

First I guess spring vacation of our sophomore year I did go down to Daytona Beach share the gospel a little bit down

there and I actually saw her down there.

We never talked but I do I never forget a face.

I remember seeing her down there.

I knew she was from Illinois the summer.

Between sophomore and junior year of college and I decided if I'm gonna be involved in crew I better

get out to Arrowhead Springs, which is where the summer basically

and I went out for a week.

And I had just broken up with this went to Wellesley

same year, by the way, it's Hillary.

But I'm like this young lady with that despite.

Oh, I won't go down that.

But I tried every which way to convert her and I just knew and I'm

going out to Arrowhead

Springs and there's all

these.

Do you know

what?

No, wait a minute.

I Know

that I came

out here all the way

from the Chicago area

to learn more about you Lord want

to get to know.

I wonder what postcard my mother would like.

Buy that particular.

I'm you know, Marcia had

nothing to do

with my

mother or poor basketball.

My address with us with

somebody there to

give us to this map.

You got it to her tried You

know unsuccessfully to

get

graduated,

Washington DC.

Oh, praise

God and.

Just to Remind our listeners of the of the title of the book that you have

written.

This yeah sweeter.

By the dozen and making Jesus the Lord of our family.

Size.

Did you have any idea when you first Married Marcia that you would

have that many children.

I mean sometimes sometimes couples immediately say we want a big family.

Sometimes they don't say that but God gives them one anyway, but did you have any idea would be that big?

No,

not

looking back to Grand Rapids, Michigan where my parents said move back

to it.

But no way a banquet as

precious

look like that that talk.

Yeah, I mean just it just it was kind of a jaw -dropper for thinking.

I mean, we're gonna have maybe three lovely daughters.

Marcia got pregnant with number

four and that's it.

I mean, come on.

One of my dreams, you know flying private airplanes.

It was kind of one of my hobbies and I could think of maybe buying a four passenger six

passenger single -engine plane at Some point but beyond that couldn't

fit anymore.

House a lot of work.

In fact, you see that especially when you go from two to three when you got two, you know.

There's one for me one for you.

Then you get that third all of a sudden you think

but the thing is this they start growing up and then the oldest ones Can start helping a little bit,

you know, we were done.

I mean we were done done.

And Marcia's two sisters no brothers, I have three sisters no brothers.

We have no background, but Marcia is so real.

You got to meet her.

You really should be interviewing her, right?

I'm sure I'm sure that we'll arrange that.

What she is here we are, you know with

four kids and she prays that's enough kids want us to

have more change Randy.

Yeah, she was she was rich.

She was well, you know, she said whatever.

Challenging pregnant, I mean, that's

that's my dear

dear bride, but she's also courageous and God began to

mess once you prayed that God began to mess with me and

I just I Started seeing scripture in the Old Testament.

God opens a womb closes a womb some 127, you know children are a blessing.

God, what do you want?

Okay, God, we'll go cold turkey on any birth prevention method, but I am

confident God.

Because I know you love me a being you are wise.

Oh, I need that airport We're not going to have anymore.

You're going to

close your womb a little light -headed.

She pats her stomach.

Wow in my

imagination.

She's on the ground.

There goes my airplane.

In other words

Randy

think

about each one.

He's now

professor him on the phone

once a week now

and for a hundred kids.

Valedictorian ride the M is

wife's children are messages.

We send to a time and a place that we ourselves can never go

small.

And God has provided college tuition.

He's provided car.

He's not gonna get broke.

Blah -blah -blah

and all these

other things.

Now, how long did you how many children did you have?

When you finally came to the conclusion that you were not going to use birth control anymore.

It was basically four and after that was.

There any strong Theological conviction over that or is this just your

choice for your wife and your family not anything that.

That you.

Well it yeah.

That's a good

from this

issue

of my court for having run away from her mama.

And we didn't know she's pregnant we adjourned it to find out how

things were going.

We left her at home with her mom

parenthood and They said oh you you need to get an abortion because you know if you give birth.

Your heart's gonna stop.

Well.

That was a total lie.

I mean she's physically mature and so on.

They just were born smoking her nose, but they wouldn't give the abortion.

Without court what they knew that I was pro -life.

And I think they were trying to set me up anyhow.

For me to order these five months

pray looked

at the law and they should ignore the

unborn baby.

There we all the

testimony would not serve her best interest to have the

abortion.

And I made that finding, but then I went on to say even if somehow Emotionally it might help her again if it was

going to physically kill her to give birth.

That's a different story, but I said even when the other way that somehow emotionally someone

might suggest It would be better for her to do or not do that.

I consider that a criminal

detecting born to

an unborn child.

I'm not that schizophrenic entry

of editorial in the New

York Times tree

and

Entry and as I was doing that this is gonna blow people away.

But connection between my attitude

having more children born baby.

I've got in front of

me.

In fact this chart that shows the reason why people do have abortions enough to raise the child are

old enough.

They're not ready for another child.

They can't afford a baby.

They're done having all the kids.

They want they don't want any more blah blah blah.

Those are the major reasons.

It's not to kill the baby.

Well, what are the reasons people use birth control?

It's a bottom line

it same reason you

think God just

says well, that's fine.

God is the one that makes children in the womb.

It's not biology.

God uses Biological principles, but he decides whether you

look at

Psalm 139.

It's clear.

But we take this into our own hands so all this began to work in my mind at that time and I

saw the connection between

Abortion Jesus said

he says, you know, it leads to

say don't kill unborn babies.

But what what leads to killing unborn babies this attitude that sex is very important.

But one of the purposes God has for sex is not namely children.

And I

don't think we're ever going to totally eliminate abortion in America until we

Christians Adopt a pro child, but we love children that we quit

worshipping sex.

It's a means to wonderful communication between husband

wife child created in the image of God.

Life on this planet for good can lead people to the Lord, etc, etc.

And it's going to live forever in his kingdom and I'm supposed to run this area of my life.

Aren't we Christians trained for Jesus to be Lord of every area.

Is this an unimportant area of my life

and.

Along the way while you were Passing perhaps five children.

Did you have any?

Close friends family members even brothers and sisters in Christ who said

We really think that you should stop.

Well, sure, you know the in -laws but then you

know, once you get once

they're there you can you could ask whoa.

Wait a minute, you know sort of thing.

So we didn't get much push, but it's some people just raising their eyebrow.

But once they saw the children you

see the child, that's why I'll decide

on it through abortion.

You know, but once you see the ultrasound and that child.

Squirming away from that knife, you know or whatever.

Oh.

There's a person in there and he had

to grow the love of.

You know, they reflect their creator you just think.

That was editorially Grand Rapids Press years ago.

It by a doctor.

This is why I no longer do

scheduled it

but since the

uterus was to

but to explain it already changed.

Yeah, we're just gonna have.

And two years later three years boy Bobby

that he's playing in the stand.

I did at that point.

He saw the reality of what?

What children are?

Wow Wow praise God

We have to go to our first station break.

So if anybody would like to join us on the air send an email to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com Chris

Arnzen at gmail .com and as always give us your first name at least.

City and state of residence in your country of residence if you live outside the USA Only remain anonymous if your question

involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away.

We're gonna be right back after these messages with more of Randy Heckman and The book we are

addressing today sweeter by the dozen making Jesus the Lord of our family sighs.

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And welcome back this is Chris Arnzen if you just tuned us in.

Our guest today for the entire program is Randy Heckman.

Retired juvenile court judge who has headed several Christian nonprofit organizations committed to benefiting

families.

Executive director of the Great Awakening the Grand Awakening.

I'm sorry and husband of Marcia.

Marcia for more than 50 years having parented their dozen children and we are

discussing Randy's book sweeter by the dozen making Jesus the Lord of our family

size.

If you'd like to join us on the air our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

If you have a question and Remember to give us your first name.

City and state and country of residence.

In fact, we do have an anonymous listener right now.

An anonymous listener says have you ever heard from a brother or sister in Christ?

Which is the most cutting and cruel way to hear this.

That when you have a large family, you're actually committing a sin because you are

depriving the children of.

Being able to benefit from your income and the size of your home.

Etc.

And also you may be putting a burden on the church.

Just if

all

these things will be

given to you as well, I mean we have just seen God meet

our needs.

We have not had to

depend on meet our

needs those kids over

there.

Would you please meet their Chris?

He fact that was challenged was

making like 7 ,500 bucks a year as

a $9 ,000 a year as a teacher a high school teacher and.

You know someone challenged

my net income.

Was that MIT?

He challenged me.

He said, you know, do you want God to bless your net or your gross income?

I said, well, are you kidding if I would I have the gross income we're gonna starve.

But I thought okay God, here we go.

And I'm just telling you I'm not.

I'm not bragging.

I'm just

telling her it's about meeting our needs

for crazy.

And again, I if you want me to go down that road.

But Marsha and me praise God now I will give you the opportunity if you'd like to

To go down that road of some of the other ways that you were blessed by the Lord by getting

unexpected Financial blessings that that got you through the month etc.

Because I'm sure there are a lot of people out there that might have a third of the number or less

Of the children that you have that still are frightened about financial struggles and so on.

Yeah, and federal government does these

really cost thing, you know.

Two hundred and some thousand dollars per child on average

to rent, you know.

The younger ones don't cost nearly so much perfect again.

The bottom line is, you know, the

price the price.

It's a little wake

here and what started out girl

armor who

would hike on his

hundred and nine acres.

And he was getting on an age

and contract which I would then divide up and sell the parcels.

And by the grace of God we sold the parcels and by selling them for his flight

well bakers five acres to hike through and cross -country ski trip and.

By having that piece of land basically for free.

We were able to build

a six -pack quit being a

judge.

I voluntarily quit after 15 years because we were being recruited by

Michigan Family Forum, which is connected to focus James Dobson focus on the family and.

So we voluntarily left the judgeship

Lansing.

Which is about an hour plus every day

most on the market and

we said I guess we're gonna

have to build a house.

In the Lansing area.

I can't find anything big enough.

Chairman of my board of directors Found this

thing.

He said how about enough?

How about he said 11 ,000 of

an indoor swimming foster home and Long

story short.

We bought it for a hundred and seventy five thousand dollars.

Wow what I just described now, that's the good news, but that's a good

news.

It was not working.

We had to put thirty five thousand dollars into it.

But still at two hundred and ten thousand dollars.

You have an 11 ,000 square foot home of an end a 20 by 40 indoor swimming.

But now we got to sell.

I had a bridge loan with my board of directors.

Spired on March 30 our

12 bedroom house and believe it or not There's not a huge market for 12 bedroom houses.

One of our daughters said don't quit

praying mom and

dad.

I got a couple wallet

on March

seldom early.

That's just one another miracle, but then the college tuition.

If you want me to go on with with these things, oh, yeah, sure.

Okay, so college to it college these days.

I just purposed, you know, God you can come up with money.

We don't have to necessarily borrow.

So our first daughter went to at that time was twelve

thousand dollars a year.

And that was a hard

year, which is a nonprofit.

And our second born was a bit really

tough because I wasn't making you

know I was making you know decent money as a judge, but not an incredible amount.

Profit so I'd mute the Lansing.

I said, why don't you apply to Michigan State which

is dollars a year?

So okay that that summer.

Between her

gentleman.

The husband was an attorney foundation

to ministry

stored much

short

tuition.

Wow and it's got

it's

kind of

funny that it's gone

to a

different one more

store and there are

many more.

I mean, we've got a big family, you know.

And these friends of ours that you really need a bigger beer gave you

a 50.

He it's not

that we're

so probably he doesn't the hardest

words in the English language.

I Was wrong.

Amen, and we have to go to our midway break right now.

The midway break is longer than most of the breaks because grace life radio 90 .1 FM

in Lake City, Florida Requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show because they according to FCC

regulations have to localize Iron Trump and Zion radio to Lake City, Florida.

So while we air our Globally heard commercials. They are airing their public

service announcements and other local things.

So please use this time wisely.

Write down information provided by as many of our advertisers as possible so that you can more frequently

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Which means subsequently that we God willing will remain on the air for a longer future because

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very generous donors in the audience.

So, please write down as much of the information as possible for from our advertisers and send questions

to Randy Heckman.

About his book sweeter by the dozen making Jesus the Lord of our family size.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors.

As host of Iron Trump and Zion radio I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in

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Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the iron sharpens iron podcast.

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Iron sharpens iron radio depends upon the financial support of fine Christian organizations to remain on the

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-books .com solid -ground Christian books and before we return to

Our discussion with Randy Heckman on his book sweeter by the dozen making Jesus the Lord of our family size.

I just have a couple of announcements to make that.

I hope you will Take advantage of right now and etc first

of all a week from this Friday.

That's June 19th the very first time ever on this program.

We'll be featuring Oz Guinness.

It's been a long time coming at bonnet Oz on for quite a long time.

He's going to be on the first hour of the program and he's going to be discussing a book that he

has written that I think that every Christian should get their hands

on and by the way, just a little heads up for you.

We're giving away free copies of this book to the first Five people who

write in good questions, but the book is fool's talk recovering the art of Christian persuasion.

And that's by Oz Guinness, of course the second hour Gary DeMar founder of

American vision returns to the program and he's going to be discussing a Book that he has

brought back into print.

It's Greg L. Bonson's book against all opposition Defending the Christian worldview, so

that's going to be an excellent hour of programming on Friday, June 19th.

Make sure you mark your calendars also folks another reminder the during this

Coronavirus pandemic we lost and I'm hoping it's just temporarily we lost two of

our largest sponsors of this program because their businesses were so

negatively impacted by the hysteria attached To the pandemic and

if if you find it within your heart and within your Income to help us

make up for that lost.

Support financially, please go to iron sharpens iron radio calm.

Click support then click click to donate now.

You could donate instantly with a debit or credit card by doing that.

If you prefer a snail mail an address will appear on your screen when you click support at iron sharpens iron

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Also, if you want to advertise with us Send me an email to Chris Arnson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject

line.

We truly could use the advertising dollars from a new ad campaign if you'd like to

launch one with us and Of course the only thing I ask is that whatever it is you're advertising be at

the very least compatible with what we believe.

You don't have to you don't have to believe identically with me, but you do need to be promoting something That's at the very least compatible

with what we believe.

That's Chris Arnson at gmail .com put advertising in the subject line and I have a couple of reminders folks.

Please never ever siphon money away from your regular giving that you're accustomed to to your local

church in Order to be in order to give to iron sharpens iron radio, please never do that.

Especially during this corona virus pandemic many churches have been hit really hard and yours may be one of

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We don't want to add to your church's burden by you giving to us.

So please don't siphon money away From your giving to your church to give to us.

And also don't put your family in financial jeopardy if you're having a hard time making ends meet.

By giving it to iron sharpens iron radio those two things are commands of God in the scripture providing for church and

family.

Providing for this radio program is obviously not a command of God.

But if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands.

You might have extra money because you haven't been going to your favorite sporting events lately.

You haven't been going out fine -dining.

You haven't been going to the movies to theatrical performances to concerts to Bible conferences.

There's a lot of things that you probably haven't been doing that's enabled you to save money.

So if you have some extra money and you love this show and you don't want it to go away.

Please go to iron sharpens iron radio .com click support then click click to donate now.

Also folks if you are not a member of a local Bible believing church, you're having a hard time finding one,

please Send me an email to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and but I need a church in the subject line.

I have lists of biblically faithful churches all over the world and I have already helped listeners all over the planet

earth.

Find churches near them that they didn't know existed that they have either joined or recommended to family and

friends and loved ones or that They have visited while on vacation.

So any of those reasons and more that you need a church.

Send me an email to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

But I need a church in the subject line.

That's also the email address where you could send in a question to Randy Heckman The author of

sweeter by the dozen making Jesus the Lord of our family size.

That's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and

Randy we have a question for you.

From from Bobby in Hartsdale, New York.

He says could you tell us how to respond to people who are against large families

you already mentioned briefly.

About the argument of overpopulation.

If you could go further in detail into how to respond to that argument and any other arguments.

That you have conquered over the years that people throw in your face due to a large family.

Sure, I should thank you.

You

know

the

women's

in 1968 vision bomb and again, we were

all said, you know by

1979 which was 11 years later.

He gave just that the little things will be his

last point was he said the most intelligent creatures ultimately surviving this

period happened in

1979 and Exactly the opposite is true.

I've got a whole big section in my book that talk about this myth

and again It would take forever for me to describe every detail.

Let me quote a person who was from Harvard University.

Described as our century was last century our century's greatest echo

and he said that wealth is proportional.

Population which is to go here.

But you could take every man woman and child in the whole world

the state of, Texas.

And you get each one of them approximately 700 square feet to live on.

Now again, nobody would want to necessarily do that.

I'm just saying we have this picture of wall -to -wall people around this world and that is not accurate

can describe other things.

Do you know how many children it takes?

Chris to have what we call zero.

I've no idea.

It's two point one.

Children per female not married to all females.

Why two point one?

One to replace her one to replace her the husband the father of the child and Point one just

because some people don't have kids or can't have kids and so on.

Do you know that since?

1970.

The number

of children born per female in America has been below two point one.

You say well our population continues to go up.

Yes because of immigration but the demographers say that

within 30 years America's population despite immigration is going to start to decline

and never turn around the average the median age of Americans in 1970 was

28 that means there's it's in the middle.

It's now Thirty -eight point two.

What difference does that make?

All right, there's two groups of population that are

dividing the economic.

Children zero to 18 tired people basically

above 60 that middle category gives back Approximately ten times what

they consume people are not just drains.

I'm gonna hire somebody unless they give back more than they

consume we produce.

We don't just consume which is the again the picture the elderly

grow More dependent right now.

So there are at the point of insolvency in America because the average age of

America has gone up.

It's going to continue to go up and we will have so many people in the Senate

come to you folks that are younger in a few years and say would you mind taking this little pill and

Saying bye -bye to everyone to take care of you anymore.

We need more people.

I've got quotes in my book from a Wall Street the

problem

Workers 1

.5 a white numbered

white birth.

We don't realize what's going on, but you

gotta look at the day for

lunch.

Economic

final point on this necessity becomes the mother of invention

with Europe and a

an alternative.

How about one?

So that's how they do.

That's why they develop plastic.

Well, that's one of the reasons

yes problem with it where the world is not the lack of resources.

It's sin.

Blessing what a what a two million

Israelites

doing for 40 years.

We get afraid

the

universe in

heaven for eternity.

You think you think that's biting his fingernails my goodness

praise God.

Before I go to any other questions, do you have any other of the Obstacles people tried

to throw in your way or arguments that you.

Oh, yeah.

I.

Medical science.

They've come

up with inside, you know.

In Asia, you know.

We know how to kill people and unborn babies.

Just because science comes up with it doesn't mean it's right reality.

Control movement.

With this surprise the history of the birth control movement.

I was amazed at where it came from.

Excuse me.

Most people.

I'm just gonna go mute for a second and cough and then I'll be right back.

Can you hang on?

Yeah, no, and that's our email address again.

It's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

If anybody wants to send in a question of your own Chris Arnzen at gmail

.com.

Chris a r n z e n.

I'm sorry.

Yep, anyhow back with you.

Sorry about that.

But as I was looking at the history of the birth control movement, we again we assume kind of a

medical.

That's what modern people do.

But if you look at it and again I got a few books written by people who are far from

being of them a

Peter control

movement and he

talks about.

I went.

Unmarried women will find it far from easy to obtain contraceptive

instruction at Connecticut in 1965

actually not 1963 they Spring court changed that.

But anyhow, let me go on it is salutary says Peter Fry.

That's why he likes this to recall that and I'm control movement

throughout the 1900s when this thing got started was part of a

vigorous challenge to Christianity should

notions of sin.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com is the email address Chris Arnzen at gmail .com if you have a question

for Randy Heckman.

Sorry about that.

Marsha brought me some water help.

Good.

It's a vigorous challenge to Christianity and Christian notions of sin and everyone.

And we document this in my book every one of the birth control pioneers.

Atheist agnostic became a spirit

opposed to Christian atheistic.

I'm just going through a Christian.

Then atheistic.

Margaret Sanger is the name that'll be from us.

She started planned parenthood.

She was atheistic, but doubted in the occult.

Marie Stokes Claims God about all this good

stuff, but she's a mystic and then finally Paul Eric was a stick but.

You know, hey, we're gonna really be cool here.

We're gonna fight God.

God wants babies.

We want sex started and so we

just continue and we just accepted it our culture.

Speaks to the church in so many ways.

I have yet my good friend Chris to hear a sermon on this important subject.

I've heard many sermons on Jesus needs to be Lord of every era of my life.

But when I got married, I didn't even have a clue.

We have how many children you might want to put you

up to hear a sermon shared this with others.

Again, many we were

on focus 1994 with him as a

Bontrager family that we've never met before.

Heard it in 1994.

They're gonna have to if they heard our

program,

you know five

years ago

now be here.

But you know this family they're called the Bontrager family.

Maybe so many folks one family's been impacted by this by just making

Jesus the Lord of family sides.

And so we need to get this word out because we need more.

There's not enough good people in this world to impact our world.

Change lives and witness people are created in his image

and we really can use.

Many more people would just give us

by the way.

Bobby and hard still you have won a free copy of sweeter by the dozen making Jesus the

Lord of our family size.

So make sure you give us your full mailing address in Hartsdale, New York, in fact

there was a An earlier on in the program.

There was an anonymous listener.

I forgot to tell you.

Give me your full name off the air, of course and your full mailing

address.

We will send you a copy as well.

Actually Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service will ship it to you and no expense to you or to us.

And we want to thank our friends once again at Reformation Heritage Books for their generosity and

providing these Copies that we have been giving away.

We have another anonymous listener and this

anonymous listener says Do you believe that if your wife?

Does not want to have any more children at it after a certain point because of the fact it is straining

her physically perhaps even mentally or emotionally.

That that is a valid reason to not have any more children.

I'm not talking about Having abortions because I believe it's murder.

I'm not talking even about using contraception that is artificial.

But is it a valid reason to cease having children in your opinion?

Yeah, again,

we're

talking

about

Jesus being Lord.

Easier on

that side.

The presumption

should be that

you

have

physically had.

The presumption is that we are open to the children that God may wish.

The Reason that we feel would

be sinful to do it be wrong to to pray about it.

If God gives us the peace in our heart again, we're willing to do whatever and he just you know.

There's there's a big red flag that but he puts in our face.

Natural family whatever it is.

Abstinence.

I don't know you make that call you report to God.

You don't report with

America is thing.

It's just how we want it and then we're done.

Then we go get the vasectomy we go get you know, what

anymore, you know.

There's over popular if you doubt

me on

that get my

book and a prayer about that.

My good friends.

Again

God will show you if you're willing.

If we're not willing to Lord if you say

for us to go ahead.

But never child that you're gonna

leave us.

But if we say no, I'm not really willing to not willing to be open to having another will

definitely

show us.

Okay, I'm gonna read you a question and then have you answer it when we come back from our final break.

Sure, and it's a much briefer break or much more brief break.

Yep, we have Christopher in Suffolk County, Long Island, New York.

Who asks I understand that the Muslim population?

Continues to rapidly grow and dwarf.

The ever -shrinking Christian population on the planet.

Is it a good motivation to have large families?

To have hopefully according to the will of God Christian children who will then

be added to the number of evangelists in this world.

Spreading the gospel to compete as it were with false voices like the

Muslims.

And we'll have you answer that when we come back from our final break and if you have a question

that you'd like to Ask Randy and send it in now because we're rapidly running out of time.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back with Randy Heckman.

This Arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio here, I want to tell you about a man I have personally known for many

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James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here.

If you've watched my dividing line webcast often enough, you know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other

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I'm Dr. Tony Costa professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

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In Psalm 139 verse 14, the psalmist offers praise to the Lord like this,.

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Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor, frequent co -host with Chris Arnzen on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

I would like to introduce you to my good friends Todd and Patty Jennings at CVBBS, which stands for Cumberland Valley

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There is no voicemail, so please only call Monday through Friday, 10 a .m.

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and Iain Sharpen's Iain Radio.

And Randy, before the break, we had a listener in Suffolk County,

Christopher, who wanted to know if it was a valid motivation to

have a large family to, for lack of a better phrase, compete

with the rapidly growing Muslim populations because you want there to be numerically more Christians out there,

and of course you're hoping your children will be Christian.

You're not guaranteed that, as opposed to what some of our friends believe.

But what do you think about that?

Well, to me, again, the motivation, the subtitle of my book is I

know a number of couples that would love to have any children, and God is close.

Look at Psalm 139, where he talks about, you know, David speaking to God.

In verse 13, I mean, the

question implies we need

to be open to God, but I think God's plan would be for there to be many, many, many,

many more Christians who then can share the gospel.

That's where it just blows me away to think if I had run this era of my life, we would have

stopped with four lovely daughters,

kids now who are planted around our country, sharing the gospel, being

Christians, having children of their own.

We have 30, they're going to have an impact on our world.

You think of the Israelites in Egypt.

They're going to overpower us one of these days because Egyptians probably weren't having that many kids.

Yes, there will be an impact.

In Europe right now today, it's becoming Muslim.

Why?

Europeans are not having even the 2 .1 babies per female to break even.

They're going out, and the Muslims are at least doing one thing right.

They're having kids.

They'll become Muslim.

Even as London, nothing against them, but

the reality is if we simply say, Jesus, you be the Lord of my family size, and let God give us,

we'll end up with

12.

But we prayed before Marcia ever got pregnant.

I never kind of, I said, well, that's a good one.

But by the time we got to 11, I figured,

let's have the 12 tribes of Heckman.

And Christopher,.

Give me your full mailing address because you have also won a free copy of Sweeter by the Dozen,

Making Jesus the Lord of Our Family.

Size.

And by the way, I want to, before we run out of time, I want to make sure I read

an excerpt from the foreword of this book written by my friend, Dr. Joel R.

Beeke, founder and president of Puritan Reform Theological Seminary

in Grand Rapids, Michigan, and also founder of Reformation Heritage Books, the publisher of

this volume that we've been discussing.

Dr. Beeke says, this is a book that needed to be written.

Too many Christians today view children as something that gets in the way of what they desire

out of life, so they end up living selfishly by striving to limit the number of children they

bear to coincide with their all too frequently selfish plans.

Too many Christians also fail to grasp the beauty and the joy of a large

Christian family.

If the Lord sovereignly provides for his own honor and glory.

Excellent commendation.

Yeah, yes.

I would like you to have the remaining minutes of the show to summarize what you most want etched in the

hearts and minds of our listeners in regarding A Sweeter by the Dozen Making Jesus the Lord of Our Families Sighs.

Well, I appreciate that, and Chris, so appreciate this opportunity.

The bottom line to me are the one thing

provided again, the

example of money, stuff

that's not going to follow us to heaven, but

children, incredible value to create.

Yes, they are.

Yes, it takes pleasant.

Yes, life can give you this

kind of, in other words, you're producing children that can influence

the world that we're in, as we talked about in that last question.

They can lead people to the Lord.

They can lay up treasures in heaven, and then they can live in his eternal

thing, and God can provide the resources.

He can provide the home.

There's my brothers and sisters there.

I know this is radical.

This goes against many assumptions.

I've been there, but I'm just telling you, I could cry forever now knowing

each one is.

Tell me that we never had those treasures.

They are treasures, and I just want you, and again, for the God

will accept you where you're at, but maybe you can talk to your children, grandchildren,

about to get married.

I challenge you

that it will be worth it as you lay up treasures in heaven.

Amen.

And folks, don't forget that the website where you can find out more about Grand Awakening is

grandawakening .org, grandawakening .org, Reformation Heritage Books, who published

the book we've been discussing, Sweeter by the Dozen.

You can find them at heritagebooks .org, heritagebooks .org, and don't forget, folks, although

we want you to explore that website, please purchase the book from cvbbs .com, our

sponsors, because that does not hurt Reformation Heritage Books in the slightest bit.

Cvbbs .com will have to purchase the books from them.

So everybody wins.

I want to thank you so much, Randy, for being such a superb guest on my show.

I would love to have you and your wife come on the show at some point, and I want to thank everybody who

listened today, and I want you all to remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far, far

greater Savior than you are a sinner.