Ehrman/Wallace Debate

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James White director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now 602 9 7 3 4 6 0 2 or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1. And now with today's topic here is James White.

Year-End Show and Upcoming Schedule

And good afternoon. Welcome to. Well, let's see. Will this be? Yes the last dividing line of of the year in fact. Let's see. Next Tuesday is New Year's Day. New Year's Day and I fly out next Tuesday evening.

So, what do you think? And are we gonna do something next Tuesday? Probably not. Just now. Just gonna let it just let it slide in and well, that would mean nothing. Next special announcement here. Our plan.

Well, you're gonna you're gonna do up to my hip boots. No, you know, you're gonna do your own program. You're gonna do a solo dividing line. Featuring all the new features and wonderful things in the ailment web store, right?

If I were to do a show, the first thing I would do is turn the heater on over here. I Was actually thinking of re-recording the intro today to have instead of the desert metropolis the frozen tundra.

Of James White's office just no reason to turn it on. I mean, it's it's all the way up to 65 already. Come on, it's not that bad. Uh. Think of the money we spend to cool this place during the winter and we're just getting during the summer you mean during the summer.

We're just getting a head start, you know, it's just gonna you know, see we're so discombobulated by cold weather. We can't even think straight. No, that's that's not true. Anyways.

You were saying I was saying that we will be unveiling the new web store at ailment org.

New Year's Day. Yes, so that's why that's why I was saying you should do a special program by yourself.

Well, the special program will be online and people can go online to the store link there.

You can explain all the wonderful neat new features and how it's gonna look so much better than the old one.

And it has stuff in it. It has stuff in it. And they can go and they can click that stuff and they can they can get it and they can finally get the mp3 Downloads again, which yes is where the the biggest complaints are people need the downloads and they need certain programs.

It will be nice about it is that the I just saw something on the Cameras up there that looked odd, but it really wasn't. What will be nice is that if you click into a particular item? The old store couldn't do this.

We can basically flag things and say these are related items. Oh, yeah, so if you did a series of dividing lines on that particular subject, right you can look up and say Oh, well, there's a bunch of dividing lines up here.

I should click into and see. You know what? They were about because they're somebody's gone in with a brain and said that they are related. So with a brain well. Too many people rely on computers to do this stuff.

And oh, we need someone with a brain to sort through and go this program and this is what it's about and Tie it in with that one. So we relied on algos brain. We will be relying on algos brain more and more.

Yes.

All right, Tom, but are those gonna be available yet?

Well, we have what we call algos top mp3 pics. Okay. All right they are featured on the main page of the store and along with a number of books that will be featured up there as well and The initial design will be just you know, a real basic design.

Just getting that's gonna get just gorgeous something I'm anticipating come March. There's gonna be some real big surprises with the website. Oh good. Good. Excellent.

Okay, so something will happen on the first but it won't be a dividing line. Let's put it that way. So I. Basically, what I'm saying is next week. Nada because on Thursday I can guarantee you I won't be doing dividing line.

I will be teaching up at Cornerstone Seminary in Northern California and that's from like 8 o 'clock till 4 o 'clock and it after that I.

Don't want to talk to anybody. Yeah, but if they've got Wi-Fi we could just open up Skype and well, I suppose.

Yeah, I I'm not sure at the seminary would necessarily appreciate the live go for that. Yeah, but yeah, who knows? But anyways, so that's what's going. So this will be the last of 2012 and sort of the first of 2013 and then we'll get into it in the week after.

Next week and like most people we'll be finishing off all of these sweets that have invaded my diet horribly and Getting back to eating really good stuff again. As we all do for about the first three weeks of January and then after that it it doesn't really work as well.

Hobby Lobby, the Contraceptive Mandate, and the Secular Worldview

I saw a sad story this morning. Supreme Court denies Hobby Lobby request for reprieve from health care mandate. Supreme Court has denied a request by Hobby Lobby to shield the company from the so-called contraceptive mandate.

While its legal battle plays out after a federal court last week similarly ruled against the Christian owned company the lower court had earlier refused to protect the company from an Obamacare tied requirement to provide contraceptive coverage and The fines that come with it for not complying.

CEO David Green who had taken his case the appeals court after losing the lower court ruling had argued that his family would have to either Violate their faith by covering abortion causing drugs or be exposed to severe penalties and quote.

The Supreme Court's latest ruling is not on the underlying merits of the mandate itself. It simply denies the company's request for an injunction while legal battle on the merits plays out. There are currently more than 40 cases pending against the rule.

Once again theology matters. There is no such thing as a. You know the secular worldview is opposed to the Christian worldview. There is no question about this and The question is going to be whether the secular worldview will become so predominant that it's hatred of the gospel and it's of hatred of God's people will in essence run Christians out of business and out of the public square.

That certainly is. Exactly what many many many people want. They won't admit that because they're not honest. But that is exactly what many people want and this is a part of it and we just pray God protect your people, but look Christian businesses are a blessing on a nation businesses run by Christians where there is going to be morality and ethics involved.

It's a blessing on a nation and And If God withdraws his blessings he withdraws his blessings. And that's what's gonna happen, and we just we look at this and we we pray Lord. I certainly I've been talking about this for a long long time Lord protect your people and that does not necessarily protect your people does not necessarily mean that your people will continue to be able to do and enjoy the things they've been able to do and enjoy and I have to keep telling myself that I have to keep reminding myself of that that our range of freedoms activities Enjoyments in the future well look at how Christians have to live in Pakistan.

We've had it real easy for a long time and Who knows who knows I've had this Next little item in my folder for a long time, and I never got to it. I'm not sure why I do have a couple things queued up, and we will take your phone calls if you'd like at eight seven seven seven five three three three four one.

There was an what's the date on this thing here? December 21st. So it's not it hasn't been too long, and there is a picture of Pope Benedict doing his blessing thing. This was Wednesday December 19th 2012 and It says the Pope pressed his opposition to gay marriage Friday denouncing what he described as people eschewing their God-given gender identities to suit their sexual choices and Destroying the very essence of the human creature in the process now.

Everyone knows who has listened to this program more than ten times. That I believe that Roman Catholicism is a false gospel in a false church. I believe that it is a False system of worship that it engages in idolatry and the elevation of Mary.

The denigration it's as a false gospel it elevates people. I mean this man standing here the man who said these words allows people to call him Holy Father. A term that is only reserved for God in Scripture the Vicar of Christ who is the Holy Spirit?

There is much. I have been consistent for a long long time in fact we can go back to the dividing lines if we had them from the 80s and 90s before the Wayback Machine and Before where we start in 1998 we don't have almost any of those do we Just some way we had to get at least couple them from them in the store.

Yeah, okay. Anyways, you can go Back for many years in fact almost 30 years in my life not quite that long. Being that I'm an old man now. We're both in the same same decade now. That's I feel better about that now because I I felt a little badly making fun of how old you were before and now we're in the same decade so it's though you're still older than I am but but we're only in the same decade, but Combing the hair there.

Anyways, it's been a long time everybody knows that I have a strong stance against Roman Catholicism. I defend Sola Scriptura, Sola Gratia, the five solas, etc. Etc. Etc. But I am I have often been concerned by the imbalance of sometimes normally not always but normally younger folks who hear the appropriate Repudiation of False teachings from Rome and then come to the weird conclusion that that means Rome never says anything.

That's true or ends up feeling weird or imbalanced or strange. When you have to agree with something that the Pope says well look if the Pope says the sky is blue that doesn't mean the sky isn't blue and What the Pope said in this Presentation.

Very little of it. Could I find anything wrong with and I'd have to agree. I mean it is perfectly let me read this again. Denouncing what he described as people eschewing their God-given gender identities to suit their sexual choices.

Exactly, right. Exactly, right. I Agree destroying the very essence of the human creature in the process. Yep, exactly, right. No question about it. Benedict 16th made the comments in his annual Christmas address to the Vatican bureaucracy one of his most important speeches of the year.

He dedicated it this year to promoting traditional family values in the face of gains by same-sex marriage proponents in the US and Europe and Efforts to legalize gay marriage in places like France and Britain.

In his remarks Benedict quoted the chief rabbi of France Gilles Bernheim In saying the campaign for granting gays the right to marry and adopt children was an attack on the traditional family made up of father mother and children.

Haven't heard anything wrong yet. Have you? People dispute that quote people dispute the idea. They have a nature given to them by their bodily identity that serves as a defining element of the human being he said.

They deny their nature and decide that is not something previously given to them, but that they make it for themselves. Exactly, right. The manipulation of nature which we deplore today where our environment is concerned now becomes man's fundamental choice.

Where he himself is concerned he said it was the second time in a week that Benedict had taken on the question of gay marriage. Which is currently dividing France and which scored big electoral wins the United States last month.

In his recently released annual peace message Benedict said gay marriage like abortion and euthanasia was a threat to world peace. The Vatican went on a similar anti gay marriage media blitz Last month after three US states approved gay marriage by popular vote.

Well, it wasn't three states. It was two states and one that turned down. Yeah, so that's not even quite accurate. Anyways after the peace message was released last week gay activists staged a small protest in st Peter's Square on Friday.

Gay activists sharply criticized the Pope's take on gender theory and Insisted that where gay marriage have been legalized families are no worse off. Italy's main gay rights group Arca gay Called the Pope's comments absurd dangerous and totally out of sync with reality.

They misspelled sink and a coalition of four u .s. Catholic organizations. I love this. And a coalition of four u .s. Catholic organizations representing gay lesbian and transgender people said the Pope had an outmoded view of what it means to be man and woman.

May I stop and simply ask a question that I keep asking at points like this. Why haven't these people been kicked out? Why haven't they been removed from the one true Church? Again, it's nice to say, you know.

Right about what's being said here, but if you're the infallible leader of the one true Church Why can't you do basic Church discipline haven't figured that but oh, it's grace. No, that's not even New Testament.

But we'll get to that in a moment. Increasingly Catholics in the United States and around the world see what we see Catholics following their own well-formed consciences. Here's where we start getting the interesting stuff are voting to support equal rights for LGBT.

I'm surprised I don't have QRL PMT so on so forth and eventually it'll get long enough. That'll be just the entire alphabet rights for LGBT people because in their churches and communities they See a far healthier Godly and realistic vision of the human family than the one offered by the Pope.

According to a statement from the group's call to action dignity USA fortunate families and new ways ministry. Now may I just stop to point out that Reformed Baptists such as myself do not have any Popes and.

So we don't have a parallel situation. But if there was a group that called itself Reformed Baptist that defended LGBT perspectives and teachings. Their members would be disfellowshipped from our churches.

They would be brought up on charges for denying fundamental biblical teaching. We wouldn't just sit back and go. But you know we need to be inclusive and open. No we would. We would definitely deal with it, but that's not what is happening here church teaching holds that notice church Teaching.

Have you noticed something so far in all of this? Oh, we've heard true things. But you know when you grab your chest like that. I'm start at your age. At your age and with my issues don't do that. Okay, I was just watching rich in there.

I'm sitting here talking else. Suddenly grabs his chest. I'm like oh no. Oh no. It was he had put it stuck his phone in his shirt pocket. It was vibrating. This is a live program folks, and we do not edit it.

Church teaching you know something. Church teaching well-formed conscience. You haven't heard a word of Scripture so far, and that's where I'm going with all this eventually Church teaching holds and homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered though it stresses that gays should be treated with compassion and dignity as Pope and his head of the Vatican's orthodoxy watchdog before that.

I love that you can just tell there's there's a Axe to grind the person who wrote this Benedict has been a strong enforcer of that teaching. One of the first major documents released during his pontificate said men with deep-seated homosexual tendencies shouldn't be ordained priests.

Hello. Maybe we should rethink that whole priest thing. Maybe we should go back to like biblical parameters for what the elders were like. So I guess if you don't have deep-seated homosexual tendencies.

It's okay to be a quote-unquote priest that okay. You can see there's a problem there for the Vatican though the gay marriage issue goes beyond questions of homosexuality. Threatening what the church considers to be the bedrock of society a family based on a man woman and their children.

Yeah. That's exactly right in his speech the Pope cited Bernheim as lamenting how a new philosophy of sexuality has taken hold whereby sex and gender are no longer a given element of nature that man has to accept and personally make sense of it is a Social role that we choose for ourselves while in the past it was chosen for us by society.

Well, even that would be incorrect. It wasn't chosen for us by society. It was chosen for us by God our Creator,. I'll just stop there and Read just a final line and then make some application here. 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1 is the phone number.

When freedom quote when freedom to be creative Becomes the freedom to create oneself then necessarily the maker himself is denied and Ultimately man too is stripped of his dignity as a creature of God.

Benedict said. Those are true words. Those are words that are true because they reflect Biblical teaching and the Pope said them the Pope can say true things. But he says true things not because he's the Pope.

That's the difference. This is the same thing. We look at church councils. We do not invest in church councils some kind of inspired authority. When the Council of Nicaea says what it says about the nature of Christ it is true.

Because it reflects biblical revelation not because Nicaea said it. But what Benedict said Cardinal Ratzinger said is Absolutely true because it reflects a biblical worldview. But how he gets there and how he defends it is where we have to part company with him.

But the statements are still true. When freedom to be creative Becomes the freedom to create oneself. Then necessarily the maker himself is denied folks. That is the secular worldview. This is why I have emphasized this over and over again.

I'm gonna emphasize it again. I'm sorry if you get bored with it but what was the Central emphasis of the revelation that God gave to his people When they were faced with the idolatry of the Babylonians around them.

What was the center what was the main thing he felt his people needed to know about the one true God. That he is the creator of all things including themselves creator of time Sovereign king over all of things.

Yes, but he's the creator. Everything comes from him. You see if you don't have that and our society no longer has that it's gone folks. If you believe that and you actually live in light of that notice I didn't say if you just believe it because I think one of the biggest problems we as Christians have is That we say we believe that but we don't live in light of it.

We it does not impact the way we think and the way we respond the world around us. If you believe and live in light of the fact that you have a creator who has made you. Then you recognize that the way you've been made how you look the gifts you have where you are in life God is behind that.

God's behind that and as a result. Man, I remember as a young person. This was drilled into my head. God gave you the gifts that you have and when you see someone that doesn't have that you don't have their gifts if you Feel Covetousness if you if you covet what they have that you don't have you're sinning you are questioning God's wisdom.

Man, that was that was drilled into me and I'm glad that it was because I Look around and I see people absolutely miserable they're stuck on the the the hamster wheel Trying to keep up with the Joneses.

They ruin their lives. They ruin their relationships. They've ruined their health. Why? Because they think that happiness and joy and fulfillment is gonna be found in having what somebody else has not just on the shallow surface level of things but in looking like them and Being like them and you don't have to think that way.

You do not have to think that way when You understand that there is a personal Sovereign creator who made you and placed you where you are for a purpose. The sad thing is the laws of this nation were based upon that worldview and that's why there is such a massive chasm developing between The form of government we've been given and the people who are now trying to use that form of government.

The two can't go together. The Founding Fathers knew that there was a necessary worldview connection to this experiment and Liberty and my deepest concern my the conclusion I have come to is That we've passed the point where this experiment and Liberty can continue in its current form at all.

Immoral people who have no ethics and no morals cannot be a free people Cannot be a free people and the fact that especially our young people are willing to trade their liberties and their freedoms for baubles for a little life goes back to worldview issues and Most Christians were talking about this or just go.

Well, we need to change how we present this we need to change our present that It goes to the heart. But anyways, I started preaching back to this. What Benedict said is exactly right the maker himself is denied and ultimately man, too Is stripped of his dignity as a creature of God exactly right, but how does anyone know they're a creature of God?

See Rome says it's by natural law we say that yes in The sense that we are all created in the image of God. There is that undeniable character that is there but we differ strongly with Rome in Regards this Autonomous natural law that exists apart from the supremacy Primacy and Sufficiency of The special revelation of God in Scripture and that's why I would hope now like I said This writer Nicole Winfield probably has an axe to grind and I am sure that there were biblical references sprinkled throughout what Benedict said.

But the fundamental difference between how Roman Catholic apologists and I've listened to Roman Catholic apologists I've listened to them attempting to address these things. I listen to Catholic answers live every once in a while.

It's not enjoyable to do but I do it's part of my job and there will be times when these social ethical moral issues come up and We will say many of the same things but there is a subtle difference and The subtle difference goes to the fact that Rome No longer has the foundation That a true Christian Church must have She still has the scriptures and therefore will still say true things but the centrality and the Sufficiency and the primacy and the supremacy of the very spoken Word of God has been dogmatically denied in the Roman System of things and so as a result you get this subtle difference a subtle Change true things.

Yes But not Defensible in the same way that we would present them. 877 -753 -3341 is the phone number. It has been quite some time Since we last listened to a debate that we had begun Had begun Listening to I would say last summer and What's interesting is in This particular debate an announcement was made about an upcoming book that at the time seemed like it's long time coming.

Now we're talking about just about next month Lord willin. Oh, by the way, I got I got an indication for Amazon this morning That my Nestle Allen 28th edition Greek New Testament has shipped. So I will soon have it to Look at and realize that the only thing different is a few readings in the pastoral epistles.

But that's that's interesting in and of itself. I mean for geeks like me. It's that it's still interesting, but You may recall the debate that took place this last Was it August or October now that now that I'm thinking about no, it couldn't been October had to have been August.

I Don't know anyways between Bart Ehrman and Dan Wallace, and we had gotten one hour 20 minutes and nine seconds into that and I thought you know, I Already put it in audio notetaker. And so it's there.

I know where we are so let's go ahead and grab some of that and then we can also grab a little bit more a couple more of the sections of the Audience questions and interaction from the Chris Green Paul Williams stuff as well.

Oh, and by the way, I posted today man This thing gave me fits. But I got the a video up today where I went through at least a couple of the well about the only meaningful argumentative sections of Khalil Meeks presentation from the Dean show and Using the the new camera and trying to get the glitches out on that and a couple times I recorded stuff with a new camera and it would just stop like 15 seconds for I was supposed to I'm like What's it doing? but I got all figured out and man, if I even narrated all the troubles I had getting that thing to work, but somehow it is it is on YouTube now and Hopefully works.

I think it Rendered correctly. No, I've not seen anybody coming to channel saying no, it doesn't work so hopefully it's it's up there, but it's half an hour long, so The longer than I expected it to be but it's it's up there.

So I would love to again if anyone has a means of contacting I got a a linkedin thing, but I'm not in LinkedIn's that really didn't help me much. But a you know direct email address to mr. Meek I know that he debated Jay Smith and Someone tweeted me that he debated Jay Smith and a link.

I've downloaded the debate so I can listen to it. It was at Midwestern. So I know he does debates but for some reason he would not allow the video of the debate to be used and I find that odd and somewhat troubling.

We would have to make sure that there was a Signed and written agreement on that particular issue where we to ever do something like that. But again, my understanding is he's down the Dallas area more than happy to go down there if we could work something out I would love to do two debates one on the deity of Christ and one on whether Muhammad is prophesied in the Bible because those are the two issues that he specifically raised as Part of his conversion.

So I think that'd be I'd be well worth well worth doing it. But anyways That is up on the on the website. Actually, I think it would be a good idea Right before we dive back into the Wallace Ehrman stuff to take a brief break because I Didn't bring my water in with me.

I Was rushing I got in here one minute beforehand because I was FTP I've got a new program by the way for those of you who listen to WMCA in the New York the greater, New York area I will be having a I think it's monthly.

I think it's monthly. I Hope it's monthly Program called theology matters. It'll be airing right before Renewing your mind. I think it's I Think it's why I better find out, huh? Anyways, I record the first one today and I was sending it up to the Radio station and got that done right beforehand.

So let's take a brief break. We'll break.

Book Promotion and Ministry Announcements

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This marvelous study is a valuable text for Christians who talk with Mormons and is an ideal book to be read by Mormons. Letters to a Mormon elder. Get your copy today in the Mormonism section of our bookstore.

At a omen. Or this portion of the dividing line has been made possible by the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. The Apostle Paul spoke of the importance of solemnly testifying of the gospel of the grace of God.

The proclamation of God's truth is the most important element of his worship in his church. The elders and people of the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church invite you to worship with them this coming Lord's Day.

The morning Bible study begins at 9 30 a .m. And the worship service is at 10 45. Evening services are at 6 30 p .m. On Sunday and the Wednesday night prayer meeting is at 7. The Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church is located at 3805 North 12th Street in Phoenix.

You can call for further information at 602 to 6 grace. If you're unable to attend you can still participate with your computer and real audio at prbc .org. Where the ministry extends around the world through the archives of sermons and Bible study lessons available 24 hours a day.

And welcome back to the dividing line. I Don't know. I don't know if I can continue on because I just found out that summers in Channel and She's not having Clementine listen to the dividing line and this would have been the first opportunity.

The Clementine would have had to listen to the dividing line and instead she's asleep. I mean, where are the priorities? That's the rich in the other room. He can't do anything anymore now because he's pulled his sleeves down over his fingers to keep them warm.

Come on.

It's 65 to 65. I can't feel my feet.

Then you need warmer socks. Wine wine wine. Oh good grief. Okay. Anyhow Let us press on. I I'm not even gonna bother to try to Give you the context here. We're just gonna dive in. This was the debate between Bart Ehrman and Dan Wallace on the subject of the transmission of the text of the New Testament.

Gonna do a few Minutes here on this and then Sort of pick up the pick up the level a bit truly if you want to appreciate. If you want to appreciate Bart Ehrman listen to Paul Williams. I Never I never thought that you know Bart Ehrman would have a you know a positive effect upon someone but Listening to Bart Ehrman makes you listen to Paul Williams makes you appreciate Bart Ehrman or vice versa.

The other direction. I don't know anyway. So let's let's just dive into where we had last stopped there. There's probably like two people that know exactly where it was. That's stopped. I don't but the computer did thankfully.

The Transmission of the New Testament and the Ehrman-Wallace Debate

How does he know? That the manuscripts were not changed. He agrees with me that there are hundreds of passages that really mattered. But then he wants to stress that no essential Christian beliefs are affected and he quotes me to that effect.

That is absolutely true.

Well now we certainly know where we are. We are in the very heart of the issue. The very heart of the issue that unfortunately our Muslim friends don't seem to want to fully understand what the issues are.

We certainly discovered that in our last trip to to London. We are at the very heart of the issue that we need to be able to communicate if you are a Sunday school teacher Boy talk about shifting gears, but I'm not if you are a Sunday school teacher.

You say well I I just I just teach six and six and seventh grade I teach young kids If you can in any way communicate to them The reliability of the scriptures not just the the bland statement, but if You can understand what this debate is about then you will be able to communicate that to others and Do for them something that might have life-changing Implications.

I've said many times. I remember I can see this guy's face in my mind. I Don't remember his name. But I remember his face very clearly. He and I both started going to fuller theological seminar at the same time here in Phoenix and It was a small enough group that you pretty much got to know everybody real nice guy didn't go to my church went to a different church, but real nice guy and I knew where he was coming from theologically when we both started.

All I can tell you is that when he graduated he had a master's of divinity in confusion. He didn't have the proper foundation and as a result just and I can understand why I Had to go through all those struggles.

I had to deal with all the contradictory views that were being presented and all the rest of this stuff and and But I I went in with a strong foundation if you if we could send our young people off to college.

And even yes, even to seminary. With a solid foundation and understanding of why we believe in the reliability of scriptures. Oh what a difference we could make and my the next generation is gonna have so many battles to fight and What what I'm concerned about is that when we are constantly battling against a society that has Determined to to silence us the tendency is That we become soft on the specifics of the faith.

That's why you see a lot of people. We feel like we're a smaller and smaller group. And so let's not worry about the the non essentials. Well, what are the non essentials? That line starts moving and For a lot of people it's already over the mere Christianity line.

The non essentials are everything past the Trinity Crucifixion resurrection anything past that not essential hence gospel Justification all that stuff non-essential now, we don't want to be you know.

There's a pendulum swing where people will go. Yeah, but I know people they think everything's an essential. Yeah, I know I see people and you'll make a certain kind of speculative eschatology. And I'm using that specifically of whether you're pre Post or for some people pre mid post and stuff like that.

Turn that stuff into absolute necessities. I've been to churches where you know you Sign on the dotted line right here with this very very very very very very specific eschatological viewpoint and we go.

Well, we don't want to go there. So we can't draw the line anywhere and yet we all know the line has to be drawn someplace. What are the essentials if? You can communicate and I mean you. And you go, how do you know who you is?

Most of people that listen this program are involved in solid churches not all but most and most of you probably involved in some type of service ministry. Teaching young kids and If you can communicate to them and other people in your fellowship.

What we're talking about when we listen to Bart Ehrman and Bart Ehrman saying how does Dan Wallace know those? Earlier manuscripts the ones we don't know. How do you know they weren't changed? We've already addressed this that's been so long.

Let me remind you. What is the response to Bart Ehrman at this point? He's admitting look once we have manuscripts, yeah, we know we can take the text back to that point. We're okay with that. But that's in the second century.