Simply Trinity Study (part 6)

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Simply Trinity Study (part 7)

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Well, good morning everyone Okay Welcome to Sunday school where we take the incomprehensible and explain it to you in 45 minutes or less.
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Okay Let's open in prayer our great father
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We come before you this morning thankful for a new year for new opportunities to learn about you to grow in grace to Marvel at the love that you have granted us
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Through the person and work of the Lord Jesus Christ Father we pray that by your spirit this morning.
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We would be encouraged we would be enlightened we would strive to Understand the doctrine of the
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Trinity better that we might know you all the more and worship you It's spirit and in truth
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Bless each one here. I pray in Jesus name. Amen Well this morning we're going to We're going to introduce a term.
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We'll get back to the quiz in a minute, but I thought I had a couple emails You know asking yeah, thanks
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You know what? I need probably one of those so I can at least I don't really need one, but it'll help me
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A couple emails asking questions, you know, because some people I know this is weird Some people don't like to raise their hand during class so Somebody I see that hand a couple questions along this line
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Jesus is praying in the garden of Gethsemane and he says not my will but Your will or thy will for those who are in the
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King James Thy will be done your will be done Like wait a second that seems
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Difficult to understand in light of the Trinity or how about this one? My God my God, why have you forsaken me is
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There separation there between the persons of the Trinity between the first and second persons
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So I started you know, just googling randomly online No, I I didn't because you you'd never get anywhere
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But but I thought everybody I want, you know next week everybody would be walking around the church saying well double constant
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Substantiality, you know just kind of casually throwing it out there and that's the name of this little handout here, which
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I did not write It's dr. Fred Sanders, which sounds like a made -up name, but It's not
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Double consubstantiality. What does that mean? And for those of you who are really reading quickly? Don't cheat here.
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I'm gonna make it really super simple Jesus is
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One person with two wills a
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Divine will and a human will One person two wills one of our problems often is when we think about God we think about a
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Person equals a will why would we think that way? That's us and I I think
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You know one of the reasons we struggle in understanding God well, let's back up a second What do cults do or a lot of cults do they make
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God out to be either? You know so far above us that we could never understand him never comprehend him, you know, etc.
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It said that he's he's completely other or they make him so much like us that it's hard to tell he's just kind of a better version of us and He's not like us and we and we see that here in this double consubstantiality, but he is like us
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Jesus when we're talking about double consubstantiality Really big word there a consubstantiality.
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It means if you just take the con off right Substance stuff
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I can say it I speak for a living substantiality It sounds like substance
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Right, and that's what it means con to have something in common with That's what it means kind of it's a preface and so basically what this means is
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Consubstantiality is to be of the same substance as So Jesus is of the same substance the same essence the same
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Stuff as the Father and as the Holy Spirit and he's of the same substance the same stuff as Mary You say
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Mary? Yes Why does the
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Bible stress over and over again that he's born of a virgin? because He's what?
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He's human Right. He's truly human. Yes But also he must be born of a virgin so that he's born without Original sin, so he's born without sin.
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He doesn't have our sin nature So this
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Consubstantiality double consubstantiality It helps us in understanding these questions.
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You know, how can Jesus pray in the Garden of Gethsemane? not My will but your will be done
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Does he disagree with the Father? Why does he say that because he's speaking as a man the man
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Christ Jesus in the garden is trembling why? because the
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God Jesus The third second person of the Trinity I can count one two three second person of the
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Trinity Knows what's coming? He knows that the sins of all whoever gonna believe are going to you put on him on the cross and he knows what?
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That's gonna be awful It's gonna be horrible. It's gonna be pain beyond Human imagination.
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So the man Christ Jesus in the Garden of Gethsemane and he says I'm not looking forward to that That's terrifying
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If there's another way I'd like that nevertheless
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Your will not My will I'll do it. I will do it.
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My face is set like Flint towards Jerusalem I'm going to go right? I'm going
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I'm going to go to the cross if there's another way
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Please There wasn't The man Christ Jesus wants another way.
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He said he says I if there is I would like that But he knows there's no other way.
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He's just expressing what anybody would express Not sinfully just saying
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I I don't want to do this on the cross
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So we have again this two -will model the human one person two wills the
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God -man Jesus on the cross saying my god my god.
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Why have you forsaken me? Is this a separation between the first person of the Trinity and the second person of the
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Trinity? No, why not?
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God can't be separated so Have a look here at this handout and you see these spiffy drawings.
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I mean, you know what? I like I like artists rendering that I could have drawn myself
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You know if you've ever if you ever taken a classroom where I've gone up to the whiteboard and drawn, you know I have mad art skills and And I think dr.
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Sanders probably has about the same level of skill as I do because I look at this and I go Yeah, I could have done this, you know triangle with a rectangle on it but if you look at the second one on the on the first page here,
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I Guess it's on the back page, too If we if we think in the triangle and by the way, you know, what's wrong with the
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Picture of a triangle as representing God. Is there something wrong with that? There's lots of things wrong with it.
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I mean as soon as you paint a picture draw a picture or whatever, you know of God You've got problems He isn't contained in a triangle, but here here's the point of the triangle the point of the triangle is just to get you think
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Okay, the this represents the divine nature. It's just a representation. It's not to scale
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That's why I like it right because it's not an artist's rendering of you know, the true nature of God But it's just to remind us that God is three
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Three points there, but he's one There's one triangle and so if we look at the triangle we see
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God the Father God the Son God the Holy Spirit, right? We understand that and then if you look at the rectangle, it's outside of the triangle it's outside of the divine nature because That rectangle is not divine
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But it's attached to the divine second person of the Trinity and it helps us to understand this
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That Jesus is Different from the Father and the Son in that he alone took on a human nature, right?
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or father in the spirit in that he alone took on a human nature and then if we think about Jesus being truly divine and Truly human it answers a lot of these kind of questions for us and This was you know the nature of the debate
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About Jesus in the 4th century Two different Church councils one in 325 and One in 383 or 381.
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Yeah 381 I think but the the Council of now
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I Nicaea and then the second one is the Council of Chalcedon and Where by the way,
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I was I was reading the other day This is where the legend of st. Nicholas comes from where he you know punches that way slaps down a heretic for having the wrong view
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And and you can read this later. I'm not going to go through all this. My main point was to just Introduce this idea.
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What does it mean that Jesus is truly God and truly man? And this is kind of the idea that he is completely
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Divine he is part of the Trinity, but he's completely human in that He is of the same essence as Mary So Let me just pause there for a minute
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Are there questions? Yes Yes, it would be incorrect to say it would be incorrect.
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Let me interrupt you there It'd be incorrect to say that the human and the divine are blended that he is, you know, 50 %
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God 50 % man or You know 60 % Divine and 40 % you know, or whatever, you know
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So go ahead, right?
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In one person, that's correct and and you know again You know, yeah, and when we so, you know when we talk about Miracles and we were talking about it yesterday morning in the
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Machen class When we talk about miracles what could be more miraculous than God Entering into his own creation the the space -time continuum and taking on a human nature being
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Truly human and coming to live among us and there really Isn't anything more miraculous than that So, okay other questions thoughts concerns
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Anybody want to wade deeply into the waters of heresy? They're like no
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I'm gonna pass. No, I mean really it you know double consubstantiality Just if you just think about it this way
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Jesus of the same substance substance Substantiality right same substance as the father and Same substance of Mary not of Joseph because he's born of a
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Virgin this is something you can laminate frame hang up, you know
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Talk about at the dining room table Etc. Any other questions any other perplexities?
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Okay, thank you Janet, I I knew somebody had to be improved go ahead. Okay, so So why isn't there?
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Let me see if I understand the question rightly. Is there why isn't there any mingling or Any of the divinity other divinity mixed with humanity kind of?
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Okay Interesting what's that? Yeah Yeah, well,
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I mean I I guess I would put it this way the divine Design, right?
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Was only for the second person of the Trinity was only for Jesus the second the
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Son to enter into humanity and even you know that has a
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I Guess we could say the the idea of it doesn't have a starting point but the actual
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Incarnation Does have a standing a starting point where Jesus? Comes into the world.
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That is a fixed point in history and it doesn't involve the mingling of Divinity with humanity at all.
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In fact, there are always separate but it is the God -man the person
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Second person of the Trinity entering into human nature taking on human nature now
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Is that obviously the the Holy Spirit is involved? When well, let's just put it this way because we've talked about this a little bit talking about unity of operations
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When the second person of the Trinity becomes incarnate Jesus when he becomes a man
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In addition to remaining God Are the other persons of the
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Trinity involved? Okay so it's
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Jesus alone taking on that second nature, but he does so by the work of The Bible tells us the
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Holy Spirit But we know that each of the persons of the Trinity. I mean if Jesus, you know,
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Jesus isn't forced to go into Human nature he chooses freely of his own volition to do that We could you know discern that from Philippians 2
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We also know that it was the plan of the father to send the son so they're all involved in this this one thing, but neither the father nor the
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Holy Spirit's have a direct Investment in a new nature shall we say?
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But yeah, and I'll get to you in a second, but you know was Jesus filled with the Holy Spirit. Yes So, you know,
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I mean there's all but that's just in his humanity. He's Fully attended by the
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Holy Spirit Well, you know, you know, and I mean, I don't want to get too distracted by this but if we we are indwelt as believers weren't dwelt by the
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Holy Spirit and Paul says in Ephesians 5 18 to do what?
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Be Filled with the Holy Spirit. So for one dwelt by the
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Holy Spirit, how do we get filled with the Holy Spirit? I'm looking for a theologian.
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Okay. So why does Paul command us to be filled then if we don't need more of it? Yes Go ahead sure.
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I think it very much could be like that Well, well because he says in it Ephesians 5 18 what don't be drunk with Okay For that is dissipation but instead be filled with the
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Spirit and here's the here's his point. Is it wrong to drink wine? No, his point is
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When you are drunk you are in a state of sin You are in a state of ultimately rebellion against the
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Holy Spirit You're not letting the Holy Spirit control you and you're not letting you're not exercising self -control.
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You're out of control. So What does it mean to be filled with the Holy Spirit to be filled with the
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Holy Spirit means to Exhibit the fruits of the Spirit to have less sin in your life, you know, why do we care about sin at all?
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Well, not only do we care about it because we want to honor the Lord Jesus Christ but ultimately if we don't kill sin sin will kill us and we want to be vessels of honor we want to Yield to the
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Holy Spirit and that's the whole kind of idea. Is this yielding to the Holy Spirit be filled with the
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Holy Spirit? And one of the reasons and I'll get to you in a minute Jonathan one of the reasons why we can
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Rest assured that Jesus never sinned is because the Holy Spirit is always fully with him.
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He's able to do things that we Can't do because we have sin in us
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Jonathan okay, and and I and I think that's right, you know, ultimately we want to let the the
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Spirit fill every part of our lives I think you know, I don't want to get too deeply into sanctification today
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But I think if we think about this, even if we think about Galatians 5 the fruit of the Spirit and it is one fruit
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Not fruits of the Spirit. Well, what is the fruit of the Spirit the fruit of the Spirit is the work of the
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Spirit We often think it's our own work, but it's ultimately the work of the Holy Spirit in us through us cleansing us
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Anyway, we need to get back to the quiz but any other questions about double consubstantiality Print it on your forehead, you know, it's like a phylactery just wear it around.
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Okay We're back to the quiz number 20 on the quiz
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Number 20 on the quiz and yesterday, you know what I we did find something in it. I guess this was
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You know to my everlasting shame the infallible highlighter was wrong yesterday. So I felt
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I felt deeply ashamed by that Number 20 true or false in the
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Father Son and Spirit God presents himself in three different ways See after this whole double
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Substantiality everybody's like I don't want to say anything because I might be wrong and you know, st. Nicholas might come along and slap me.
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No True or false in the Father Son and Spirit God presents himself in three different ways
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That's modalism Patrick, right? Three three different ways. No No, no three persons
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But one God right three different ways is a nice way of saying three different modes or modalism
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Yes, because it sounds different It's modalism, it's modalism, but it's named after Sibelius who was a modalist, you know, and what is modalism?
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Sibelian ism. What is Sibelian ism modalism, but what does modalism ultimately mean three different?
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modes right So God is either The father or he's the son or he's the spirit
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You know, it's kind of like the divine phone booth where he comes in and you don't know which of the three is coming out wrong and And the way the motor lists explain this is, you know, like in old times
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Basically you saw God the father and Then in the early days of the church you saw
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Jesus the Son and now we're in the era of the Holy Spirit And so it's mostly so, you know God Using these different modes to relate to himself or relate himself to humanity in different ways
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Well, no Again, it's too man -centered This is what
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Barrett says To some it seemed that Nicaea or Nicaea depending on how how smart you are
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Was saying that the person of the Son is the same person as the father
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That's not hard to understand right how could or you know to understand the confusion
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Because how could the Son be divine and not be the father? So to some it seemed like What these people were saying the
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Christians were saying was that the person of the Son is the same person as the father? Some thought the creed in Nicaea had succumbed to Sabellianism an early church heresy that said there's only one divine person not three who merely reveals himself in three different ways
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Nicaea however was not advocating Sabellianism modalism and in the years ahead it became crucial to overcome such an accusation remember
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Nicaea Distinguished between the persons when it said that the Son is begotten from the father we talked about eternally begotten
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And this or eternally generated. This is why the these these terms are important by contrast
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Sabellianism viewed the persons as mere functions as if what makes
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God the Father Son and Spirit are The diverse forms he takes when he creates or saves humanity
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Right there are different functions for them and so you know
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God just Appears in a different way because this is what this function or this mode or this representation of God does
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That's modalism. That's Sabellianism and We're all
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Patrick. Okay Questions or thoughts about that one don't be a modalist who are who's the most famous modalist?
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TD Jake's you know if you look at the Best -selling
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Christian authors he's one of the best -selling authors, and you know why don't you guys like him? Why don't you sell his books because he's a heretic you know other than that he's okay, and he can sweat
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You ever seen him preach? Yeah, and he just has like he just he has towels people coming up from the side and wipe him down because he's
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I Think it's the TV lights, but okay number 21 true or false The spirit is breathed out by the father and the son
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Okay, true the highlighter says it's true, so it must be true This vocabulary is not or was not speculative
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But was just another way of explaining what the Bible may means when it calls God father son and Holy Spirit the father listen is
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Unbegotten and if you read the ancient creeds is what you'll see he's unbegotten meaning.
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He's the The source of the essence, I guess we could say The Bible calls the father the father because he begets his son
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That's paternity that makes him a father though. He himself is begotten by no one
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The son is begotten and see what what what is that term? What what is the term begotten?
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What does that lead us to think about if you say well for example?
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What's young mr.. Arnold's first name starts with a oh, oh, and yeah there you go probably after John Owen, but I don't know that When we when we say that See yeah,
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Owen was begotten. What do we think that he's born or that he has a
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Beginning so when we see the son is begotten. What do we think? The son has a beginning and that's why
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The theologians will say that he's Eternally begotten they're trying to explain to you that your ideas of Jesus are too human
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So the son is begotten Generated the the Bible calls the son the son because he's begotten by the father and that's
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Affiliation that's the father being the father. He's because he's the father he has a son
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The spirit is spirated or sent The Bible calls the spirit the spirit because he is breathed out
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He is literally the breath of the father and the son that's spiration of the spirit
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To sum up these distinctions Barrett says the church thought hard about phrases it could use to describe these biblical names the
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Nicene Fathers that is to say The the men at the Council of Nicaea and the great tradition that followed came up with three phrases one is modes of subsistence modes of subsistence or existence
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That's not different modes. That's just modes of subsistence or their subsistence existence eternal relations of origin and personal properties
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So it's a few mouthfuls But here's and and here's what the
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Bible does often and I talked a little bit about this The Bible would say things like, you know, what distinguishes the father from the
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Son from the Spirit or are they all the same? Should we think of them as one?
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Well, they are one in essence and in purpose But why why is it that you know?
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The Bible emphasizes the Holy Spirit Taking up resonance in us.
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Why is it? You know, it emphasizes the Sun being You know the
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Creator and Sustainer. Why is it you know, etc. Why does it do that and it theologians say?
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It's to give us these categories for understanding The persons of the Trinity better that's the short version of it.
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Let's go to 22 and we'll continue developing this. Yes Yeah, yes, but that's a good question talking about, you know when
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God breathes the breath of life into man right in Genesis What you know, what is the difference between that and and the
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Holy Spirit and and here's what here's what I would say is Is is basically
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I think I think the idea here in In Genesis is to give us that kind of picture of the creative power of God, right?
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That he I mean when he speaks all of creation comes into existence The you know the word and when he specifically breathes life into man
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It's that breath that new sauce in the Greek. I forget. Well, it's probably Ruach in in Hebrew but it's that breath of life that The the the wind of life.
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It's that action of God and in the same way, I think same picture The father and son are said to breathe out the
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Holy Spirit now again, you know when we hear that we think wait a minute now you're telling me that the
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Holy Spirit has a Beginning Right because he didn't exist and then he was breathed out.
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Is that true or false? Why is that false? Because he's eternal
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So, what are we what are we left to do we're left to stand back and say I don't fully get this
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I don't fully understand how something You know can be said how someone can be said to be breathed out and yet be eternal and again
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I think part of that comes from our well all of it comes from our our
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Creaturely limits, right? We're finite beings and we're trying to comprehend the infinites
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Even if you know, our IQ is 250. We need about a 20 ,000 IQ to understand
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God. I Mean we need an infinite IQ to understand God and we just can't So these pictures are given to us like the the father and the son spirating or sending out in Isaiah 48 16 you know one of my
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Little pet verses here. I Mean you have to you have to just like Isaiah just because you can learn so much about Jesus and Isaiah, but here in Isaiah 48 16
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And we could develop all this I won't Well, let's back up a little bit because it is interesting back to verse 12
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Listen to me Oh Jacob and Israel whom I called I am he I am the first and I am the last
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Who's that sound like I'm the first and I'm the last I'm the
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Alpha and Omega. Who's that sound like? Okay, it sounds like Jesus to me My hand laid the foundation of the earth and my right hand spread out the heavens
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When I call to them they stand forth together Assemble all of you and listen who among them has declared these things
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The Lord loves him. He shall perform his purpose on Babylon and his arm shall be against the
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Chaldeans. I Even I have spoken and called him. I have brought him and he will prosper in his way
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Draw near to me hear this from the beginning I have not spoken in secret from the time it came to be
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I have been there and now the Lord God has sent me and His spirit
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Sent me that idea of sending so the father sends the son and the father sends the spirit and we're like, okay
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I don't understand how this how they could be sent and be equal how they could be breathed out and Eternally begotten and yet be eternal and part of that again comes from we have a wrong idea of time
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We have a lot wrong idea about a lot of things. Go ahead Okay Okay, good.
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Let me let me just kind of Back up a little bit on that for the for purposes of the people watching on the
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Internet So in the beginning what God okay, so and then
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God creates and Part of the reason he creates is as an accommodation as a way of Explaining himself and so time all creation even the act of breathing are
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Illustrations as it were to help us grasp in some way
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Who God is all you know if Correct me if I'm wrong, but the
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Bible might say that everything exists for Jesus, right and well, how is that?
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because it all exists to explain You know the great condescension of Jesus All of it explains the great power of the triune
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God all of I mean you could just go on What does creation actually do and in so many ways it helps us in?
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in in Some small measure to understand the greatness of God so excellent point
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Corey other thoughts questions Concerns comments heresies Okay, I'm always surveying the crowd wondering you know
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Anybody want to you know? step into the deep waters All right number 22 true or false the idea that Jesus is eternal is a relatively new one in church history
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It's relatively new in church history. Yeah, it's false.
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I mean what what is new you know? Let's flip it around for a minute the idea that Jesus is a created being
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Is relatively new it's wrong, but okay as it Athanasius said
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The Sun is ever the proper offspring of the Father's essence that is basic to the biblical metaphor itself a
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Man by counsel builds a house, but by nature essence he begets a son The Sun is proper offspring of the
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Father's essence and is not external to him I don't know how much that helps us
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But again the idea that the father has a son is helpful for us to understand the father all these things are accommodations to help us and Barrett goes on to say the
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Capet Cappadocian said the same as Athanasius Gregory of Nyssa said the same thing the only begotten only begotten
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Son is in the father and so from his nature or essence and For that reason there never was a time when the
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Sun existed not Again like Corey said and I think this is so helpful for us the triune
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God existed before creation right and so everything that happens
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You know from the beginning of Genesis forward is really kind of an
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Explanation that an explication of who God is kind of helping us understand it in some in some way
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But anyway Jesus has always been eternal I Mean we again we can go back to Isaiah.
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We can go back to other places, and we would see that John chapter 1 Explains all that Number 23 true or false the procession of the
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Spirit or the eternal spiration of the Spirit is considered his eternal relation of origin
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That eternal relation of origin. I guess I guess we could put it this way Yeah, I'm gonna deep.
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I'm gonna wait into the deep waters of heresy here Like all this is gonna be bad
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All superhero movies they have and most of them they have an explanation for where the
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Superhero came from okay, and this eternal relation of origin in a non kind of temporal way is
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A way of understanding who the person of the Holy Spirit is right it
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The descriptions of him so when we talk about his eternal procession or his eternal spiration his eternal sending
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That's his eternal relation of origin. It's just a way of understanding his His person from all eternity
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Barrick goes on to say as the biblical name for spirit or pneuma. That's the Greek term indicates.
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He is spirated Proceeding from the Father from all eternity and given to us in history for the sake of our salvation
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The spirit is a gift the spirit spiration or procession was considered the spirit's
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Personal property or eternal relation of origin so by the way if I didn't tell you the answer is true there
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So 23 is true, and we have time for one more Number 24 true or false it is wrong to worship the spirit as he exists only to point to the
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Sun Sounds true though doesn't it? No, it doesn't really okay.
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It's false Why is it okay to worship the Holy Spirit? Okay, because if we're truly
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Trinitarian we worship the Holy Spirit, too now he does he does he exist only to point to the
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The Sun that's the other part. That's kind of tricky right because we think of him
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What does he do in the New Testament, and what does Jesus tell it tell us you know that he? Doesn't speak on his own, but you know well
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Okay, let's listen to Barrett since the spirit is not a lesser deity Nor a created entity right he's not some kind of step down from the
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Father step down from the Son or He's not literally created by the
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Father and the Son The spirit is to be worshipped alongside the Father and the Son otherwise our worship is not fully
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Trinitarian as With the Sun the Cappadocians Believed the consequences for salvation were significant in other words if you treat the
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Holy Spirit different differently if you treat him as a Force as a non -entity or as the
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Mormons do as a personage The consequences for salvation were significant
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Can you you know be a Christian and not believe in the Trinity? I don't know
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I mean that that was I? I'm just being honest the answer is I don't know because when
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I when I you know for me personally when I finally came to Realize who Jesus was what was my problem?
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I'd spent my whole life denying the Trinity and so I was like cool I don't know if I could really be a
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Christian, and I don't I don't think it was I think I had to sort that Out and maybe
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I just believed in the Trinity and didn't know I believe I don't know you know I can't figure that out But I I think it's very difficult to come across somebody who is for example a
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Unitarian They believe that all the Trinity is summed up in the person of Jesus That they don't need to worry about the
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Father or the Spirit Or somebody who's a modalist I? Think it's very hard to understand how somebody could believe those things and be a
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Christian Comments questions concerns heresies I just like to throw that last one in there just in case somebody you know in case somebody wants to go you know
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I Would like to be a heretic this morning, and I that's fine Let's let's have all our heresies.
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You know yeah, put them all on the table so we can destroy them all Any other thoughts okay?
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Seeing none. We'll call this council officially closed Father we thank you for these for these concepts for these words of accommodation even for the concept of double
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Consubstantiality that Jesus being truly God and truly man truly of the same essence substance as As you are and as the
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Spirit is and yet That's his divine nature and then as is
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Befitting his human nature he is of the same substance as Mary father we admit these things are difficult to grapple with and to Wrestle down to the ground in our minds, but we thank you that even in these words and in these concepts
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We're able to glimpse in in some way the truths about you and to better understand you