WWUTT 1140 Q&A Leaving or Finding a Church, Evangelizing With Patients, Superbowl of Preaching?

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When is it time to leave a church? And how do you find a good church? How can you share the gospel with patients, like hospital patients?

00:08

And what's so bad about the Super Bowl of preaching? The answers to these questions and others, when we understand the text.

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This is when we understand the text, a daily Bible teaching podcast, where the aim of our charge is love that issues from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

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Find all our videos online at www .utt .com. Here once again is

00:41

Pastor Gabe. Thank you, Becky. You're welcome. All right, so we have to do something at the start of this program, which we have not done like the last several weeks.

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I've got this question that I've always kept at the tail end of the questions that we have to answer for the day.

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And it just keeps getting knocked off. It just keeps getting pushed to the next week. So we have to start with this question. We have to begin with it.

01:05

That way we are taking care of it this time, finally. So otherwise, being

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Friday is the day that we take questions from listeners. And you can send your questions to whenweunderstandthetext at gmail .com.

01:19

Before we get to the question, so here I am putting it off yet again. We had a wonderful compliment that was sent to us by Ritesh in India.

01:30

Oh, fun. And he said, I am so blessed waking up in the morning, as I am in India, and reading godly edifying tweets by pastors and brothers in Christ, like Pastor Gabe.

01:42

Thank you so much to you all. That's wonderful. I can't remember who else he had tagged in that, but I appreciate that you.

01:50

There was a list of names, I think. Yeah, I think he had quite a few in there. Probably all the same guys I follow. Probably.

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Kosti, and Dustin Binge, and Nate Pickowitz, because they all edify me.

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That's why I follow them on Twitter. So thank you so much, Ritesh. And yes, if you want to follow, well, it's just me on Twitter, because you've privatized your account right now.

02:12

I have. That was a whole story. Yeah. But you can find me on Twitter.

02:17

It's twitter .com slash pastor underscore Gabe. And I just started an

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Instagram. Yeah. I don't know why, but it's Instagram .com

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slash pastor underscore Gabe. I don't know if you find users the same way, but it's the same username. Pastor underscore

02:35

Gabe. I have no idea. I don't have an account. I don't either. I still try to figure Instagram out.

02:40

Yeah. I don't know. It's just a bunch of pictures. Yeah. And, I mean, you can caption them.

02:46

Yeah, you can write posts and stuff, but I don't know. And see, I'm not really much of a picture taker.

02:52

So that's why I haven't been on Instagram until, well, now. Well, your wife is. You are?

02:59

I take pictures. No. Yeah. You take pictures. But, I mean, you're not on Instagram. No. I kept saying that earlier.

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That's why I thought it was just. Anyway, it's fine. Well, you said your wife is. So it sounded like your wife is on Instagram.

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No. Your wife is a picture taker. Oh, okay. I got you. Yes. Yes. My wife is a picture taker.

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Yes. I think that. We don't have to give examples. I was just going to say,

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I don't think I've ever had to unload all the pictures on my phone. Right.

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Ever. Ever. Yes. In all of our marriage. Unless you're switching phones. Unless I'm switching phones.

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Right. That's pretty much it. That's it. Yeah. When our contract is up and we get a new contract, we get new phones. That's probably the only time

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I transfer pictures. Right. I never have to take anything off of my phone. Right. Becky, it's like every three or four weeks.

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At least. I have to clear her phone off. Yep. Which is all saved on my computer, taking up my memory space.

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But your computer is just working fine. It's good. It's good. It's running. It's good.

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Anyway. Yeah. So follow me on Twitter or Instagram. I've been doing little short videos because on Instagram, if you do like the,

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I think you got to hold down a button and it records a video. Okay. It gives you 60 seconds. Oh, okay.

04:18

So as long as your video is under 60 seconds, then you can make some sort of address. So I was like, well, how can I utilize that?

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You know, just have a different devotional thought. Yeah. And just, you know, hold the button down on my phone and utilize it that way since I don't take a whole lot of pictures.

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So I've done that a couple of times and I got a comment from one guy. I didn't save this comment.

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Didn't pull it up. But he said that he was watching it on like the subway or the bus or something like that.

04:43

Okay. So he watched my little devotional thought that I had on there. And when I got to the end of the audio, the lady right in front of him turned around and went, now, what was that again?

04:52

Oh, neat. So she heard me sharing from, oh, first Timothy chapter two, verses eight and nine was what

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I was teaching from. And so she was curious now. She wanted to know what it was that was. So there you go. You can just, if you take mass transit to work, listen to my little devotional thoughts or what videos and you're witnessing to people around you and you don't even know it.

05:12

That's right. Let the Lord do his own work. That's right. All right. So now here's the question we've been putting off week after week.

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And finally, we're coming to this. This is Andy and Rachel in Cincinnati. Okay. So they say,

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Hey, Pastor Gabe and Becky. Thank you. Thank you so, so much for your amazing ministry.

05:30

I'm sorry. I'll let you say hello. I just said hello. Hello. But without me talking over it. Yeah. Well, you know, it's okay.

05:38

My husband, Andy, and I share your videos often with family and friends. They are perfect for millennials with our embarrassingly short attention spans.

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They are packed with solid truth. I actually just had a comment on one of my books on Amazon .com.

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It was the same way. It was like, I love that Gabe's chapters are so short because I have a short attention span.

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Me too. Happy to oblige. The reason why they're so short is because that's all the time

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I have to write. I can't write a 3 ,000 word chapter. I can write 1 ,500 word chapters.

06:12

Question. Our current church where we are members has a wonderful, loving Christian community full of super friendly people, but it has strong ties to Bethel, uses worship music,

06:24

Bethel inspired prayers. A pastor just did a sabbatical there at Bethel church.

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After listening to what and other sources, then praying about it, we feel convicted it is time to move on to somewhere with solid doctrine.

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We found an amazing church affiliated with grace to you. Pastor used to lead adult community groups at grace community church and is a good friend of Dr.

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MacArthur. It has sound doctrine. It is exactly where we want to raise our young family and it is the best place that we have found to grow.

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How do we go about the process of leaving our current church? Since we have legitimate reason doctrinal differences, not superficial reasons like the pastor's haircut, we think that this is the right move.

07:09

I don't know. I mean, pastor's haircut might be the right move too, depending. All right,

07:15

I won't go there. Yeah, no. However, our membership booklet doesn't have info on what to do for leaving gracefully.

07:24

Also, it is excruciating because the pastor, elders, and other members are dear friends of ours. As a pastor, what do you think is the best way to handle this?

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Thank you again for your amazing ministry. Super cool and beneficial for us and others. Andy and Rachel in Cincinnati.

07:40

Well first of all, we have a video about that. Yes we do. So here is the what video that I did on how to leave a church and then we'll kind of come back in and add some things.

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There are times when leaving a church might be necessary, but there's a right and wrong way to do it.

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Don't just up and leave. Here are five helpful guidelines you should follow. Number one, pray.

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Really, there's no decision you should jump into that you haven't prayed about. Number two, talk to your current pastor.

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If you're moving or thinking about moving, perhaps because of a job or because of family, ask for his counsel and to pray with you.

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If you're uncomfortable in your current church, it is especially important to talk to your pastor. Don't be vague or cryptic.

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Share what's on your heart. Number three, consider your motives. Why do you want to leave? Is the reason doctrinal?

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Is it because of sin or a personal conflict? Can it be resolved? Do everything you can to reconcile any broken relationships.

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Number four, exercise grace and look for how God has been working in that church. If you cannot see grace there, examine your heart again because the problem is probably you.

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Number five, be humble and give others the benefit of the doubt. You don't have all the facts and the same measure of judgment you use will be used against you.

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If you still decide you must leave, don't divide the body further, sowing discord in the hearts of those who remain. The Bible is very clear regarding what

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God thinks about those who cause division among brothers. Avoid gossip. That includes venting.

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Instead, be charitable. Even if there is hurt, you still must forgive, as you have also been forgiven.

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Let the peace of Christ rule in your hearts, to which indeed you have been called in one body and be thankful when we understand the text.

09:23

So there you go. Yeah. Five tips. And once again, you can find that video on YouTube.

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If you search WWUTT, how to leave a church, and that video will be the first thing that comes up.

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Incidentally, if you do a YouTube search for WWUTT and then whatever Bible topic, you'll probably find a video on it.

09:43

That's very true. Yes. That's a good search method to see what other videos we might have on various Bible topics out there.

09:51

Now, with this particular case, with this church that you're leaving, yes, Andy and Rachel, I would say absolutely you have doctrinal reasons to leave.

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Churches that are affiliated with Bethel, that are going down that rabbit hole,

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I mean, it may... Especially when they go on a... What was that? A sabbatical? Sabbatical to Bethel. Right.

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That means that they're not very discerning about that. It's not just a casual thing.

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They're totally committed to the teaching that's coming out of there. It's not like the sort of a thing where, well, we just think the

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Bethel songs are catchy. Right. They really like what's going on at that church and seem to be completely unaware of the problems that are arising.

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So I would really tell you now, in a lot of cases, I'm gonna say act slowly in these types of situations.

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But in this particular case, you've got a church, you know where you wanna go, go there.

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And I would say do it sooner rather than later. The one step that I would tell you to add that was not in that video is talk to the pastor of the church that you're going to so that he's aware of all of the things that have been going on.

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Yeah. And it sounds like the way that you're talking about him in your email, you probably do have a good connection with him that way. And maybe you have talked about those things.

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Make him aware of those things that are going on so he is not left with the impression that you're...

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This is what you do. You're church hoppers. Right. You might commit to a church for a year. So you're gonna be here for a year.

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That's true. And then you're gonna find something better and you're gonna go there. So really be clear on here's the problem that we have with our previous church and here's why we like yours and get his advice.

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And I would say take his advice even before you take mine. So see what he would have to say about that as far as getting out of your current situation and going to a church where you know this is what's best for us and our spiritual growth and for our families.

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We're raising our kids in the church as well. Yeah. Anything else you would add to that? I don't know.

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Like the dear friends that go to that church. The church they're leaving. Right. How close they are with people there.

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Right. I mean, I wouldn't just leave them high and dry necessarily. Maybe try to encourage them about why you're leaving and that sort of thing.

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So not to like totally break the ties with them, but just give them the opportunity to hear the doctrinal difference because maybe they just don't know.

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Right. I mean, being taught the wrong doctrine for a long time, it just kind of.

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And maybe you'll find some people at your church that also have some concerns with what's going on there and you didn't know that they were there.

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Either way, at least as far as the scenario goes, as you've described it to me, I wouldn't try to talk you out of leaving.

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Right. I mean, if I was involved in a church that started going the Bethel way and their pastors are even going there,

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I would now, of course, I'm a little bit better at communicating the problems with what's wrong with that church.

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Might be the sort of a thing with you where it's like, well, I know there's a problem. I just don't know how to talk about it. Yeah. And if we're going to have a debate over it,

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I don't really know how to defend my position. Right. That's fine. There are some people that just their mind just doesn't work that way.

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Yeah. Mine doesn't. Yeah. Becky's that way. I'm like, hey, I know what I want to say, but I can't figure out how to get there.

13:14

Yeah. Right. Go talk to Gabe about it. Yep. He can tell you. That's what I do. So, yeah, again, you want to you want to be respectful.

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You want to be respectful of even the leaders of the church that you're leaving and the friends that you have there.

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Make your intentions clear. Don't try to be vague or cryptic. Right. Don't be insulting, of course, as well.

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Of course. Yeah. But but I think that there is enough ground there for you to say, here's what our concerns are.

13:43

Mm hmm. And we just don't like the direction this church is going. It's not good for us. It's not good for our kids, especially when we have this other church that is so faithful to the word.

13:53

Yeah. And expository preaching, which if they're connected with, you know, grace to you, they certainly would be dedicated to that.

14:00

Yeah. And that's the kind of diet you need. That's what you need to have in your church family. Now, we've got another email coming up here after Andy and Rachel's.

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And this is a this is a different sort of a situation, but same same sort of a deal. Rick is wondering where he should go to church.

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OK, so this email, he says, hi, Pastor Gabe and Becky, first, let me thank you for your ministry.

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I've been watching your what videos on YouTube for years now. Oh, hard to think we've been doing that for years now.

14:29

It is hard to think about. And I have to say that you pack more good doctrine in a minute and a half than I've heard in most 30 minute sermons that I've heard the last few years in churches here in my area.

14:41

You know, Phil Johnson made that comment, too. Oh, really? He when we were talking at G3 once and he said, how do you get all of that in a minute and a half?

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And I said, I really don't know. I think that it it really came from years of radio. Oh, yeah, definitely.

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Because you have to put everything it's all in 30 second increments. It's got to be 30, 60 or 90 seconds long.

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That's how long all your spots and commercials have to be. And so it just came to, you know, hitting the basics, hitting the facts and being able to fit that in those time slots.

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And somehow I and not any fillers. No, yeah, no filler stuff, but then can't tell stories.

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You add more by more scriptures on the on the screen. So right.

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So I mean, that's where a lot of extra stuff comes from, too. Yes. And I deliberately do the videos that way.

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So in addition to watching it and getting the basics of everything the first time you watch it through, you could go back through it again and hit pause whenever you see scriptures on the page and read in more specificity.

15:43

Even what I'm saying. Yeah. So, yeah, there is a lot packed in there. And I do that deliberately. I'm saying one thing you're seeing on the screen, more material that you can utilize.

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And I have received emails from some who have said, I've turned your videos into Sunday school lessons. So we can watch a video and then the slides get broken down and the materials get handed out to everybody.

16:03

And that's neat. Yeah. And then they can go through more of the details in the scriptures. And even when I have sources and I've cited sources in there as well.

16:10

Cool. If you go to the transcript on the what website, if I've had a source to cite, but I couldn't get the source in the video, there will be a link to the source in the transcript.

16:21

Cool. You just have to go to WWU .com to find all of that anyway.

16:28

But yeah, years of training and experience in Christian radio in particular. That's where that knack for being able to do all of that has come from.

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But anyway, he goes on, I've just recently found your church's website and your podcast. And I find both to be educational and entertaining, especially the podcast that you share with your wife.

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She seems to be a keeper. I think so. Thanks. So sweet.

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I thought so from our first date, but it was like, you know, it's like, I can't rush into this, but I know this is it.

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We're done. We're done. Yeah. I'm done looking. I found her.

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So then going on, which leads me to the question that I've asked you in the subject title, where do

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I go? I live in a small town in Missouri that has a choice of churches to choose from.

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Number one, a Roman Catholic church. Number two, an assembly of God church. Number three, a United Methodist church.

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Number four, two Southern Baptist churches. The Roman Catholic church is just that it's

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Roman Catholic. The first and only time I went to the assemblies of God church, one of the members recognized me from working together and decided, along with other members there, to lay hands on me so that I could receive the baptism of the

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Holy Spirit. Yeah, I've been I've been through that before. Yep. Yep. Walking into a charismatic church.

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I was in the door for like 90 seconds, the length of a what video. And somebody is already approaching me and laying hands on me and whatnot.

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So he says, I neither asked for that nor appreciated their efforts. The Methodist church was pastored by a woman pastor in in quotes who introduced me to her wife.

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I left before services started. That's a good move. The first Baptist church I went to was very upscale, very, very youth oriented.

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I was kindly told by the pastor there that I would probably be more comfortable at the other Baptist church because their focus was on the youth.

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I'm in my late 60s. The other Baptist church I went to was interesting.

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I was one of the younger people there. The music was was mainly praise songs led by a very nice lady accompanied by two guitarists.

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While they had hymnals, they never used them. Instead, they had a large screen TV for the lyrics.

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Once when the electricity went out, they canceled the music portion of the service because the hymnals didn't have any songs that the guitarists knew and the guitarists were electric.

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The guitars were electric. Over the next few months, I learned quite a bit about the pastor's golf game, his vacations in the

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Smoky Mountains, and why the Kansas City Chiefs are the best football team ever. I'm sure he's just ramped that up all the more since the

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Super Bowl win this past Sunday. So Rick says, sigh, I do have one other choice.

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20 miles from here, there's a Lutheran church. But since losing the sight in my left eye, I'm pretty uncomfortable driving much farther than that, the 20 miles away.

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So the question remains, where do I go? Thank you and God bless you and your ministry.

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Well, if I had to pick one of those five that you listed there, I would pick the last

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Baptist church that you mentioned in which you considered yourself to be one of the young whippersnappers among everybody that was there.

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I love that, whippersnappers. Whippersnappers. Because you could walk in there as a whippersnapper and probably help -

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Rejuvenize them. Exactly. You probably could help to whip them into shape. Now, I would say going about that in a very respectful way, a very gentle way.

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But that, at least from the description of the churches that you gave me, that seems to be the one that would be the closest to being committed to the word of God.

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Even though the pastor seems to be more about himself in his teaching than exalting

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Christ and his word, there seems to be the most amount of room there for improvement.

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Right. And the most possibility of the people there being receptive to any sort of constructive criticism that you might have about the way that they conduct things, the way the church is ordered in service and things of that nature.

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So that would be my recommendation. I would not recommend the Lutheran church, not because I wouldn't tell you ever to go to a

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Lutheran church, but simply because of what you mentioned, your vision issues that you have in your eye, and because it's 20 miles away.

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I think that you have a good opportunity to help to grow that second

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Baptist church that you mentioned, not to be confused with a second first Baptist church. Or a second

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Baptist church. Yeah, that's what I was trying to avoid. But now I've just confused everybody. Yeah, never mind.

21:16

Never mind that. So just to dig a little bit further, why would you not recommend the youthful Baptist church?

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Because they are demographically focused. What you would also call contextualized.

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Now, anytime we use that word contextualization, we tend to think of like reading the Bible in context.

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Okay. Because that's how the word applies. You read things in context. But the word contextualization, as it applies to church growth, basically means that you focus on a particular demographic and you're trying to grow the church there.

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So from the get -go, from his very first visit, he's already being told he would probably be happier in another church, which means they already are not interested in an older crowd coming in because they're focused on youth.

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Now, I think that a church that is operating in that way is completely unbiblical. Yeah, I think that's really unhealthy.

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Yes. I don't think they're focused on Christ. I think they're seeker sensitive. So because that's their aim and that's their focus,

22:23

I don't see you having any sort of influence there. The youth are just not interested in listening to you.

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But in the other church, they're aging and they don't really, it seems to me at least, as far as Rick's description of them goes.

22:38

Okay. It doesn't seem to me that they understand what they're doing. Okay. And so since they don't have a particular mission focus to which they're married and they're not automatically intercepting people coming through the door and saying, you're not going to like it here, you should go down the street.

22:53

True. That seems to me like they're going to be the most receptive to growing together in love.

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Okay. Rick may have some things that he can offer to that church that they just lack as far as the parts of the body are concerned and how

23:09

God has gifted us in different ways for the edification of the body. There may just be a part of the body that isn't there that could help the body grow in love.

23:19

True. And Rick may be able to provide that for them. Being a whippersnapper he is. Being the whippersnapper that he is.

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That's right. And so all of that in keeping with Ephesians chapter four, verses 11 through 16, where we help the body grow in love.

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Each part when working properly helps the body grow. You have the gifts of the Spirit that are listed in 1

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Corinthians 12. You have the various parts of the body of Christ mentioned in Romans chapter 12.

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I would encourage you as you're praying about this to read those sections, particularly Romans 12 and Ephesians 4.

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Read those two chapters and ask the Lord how he might use you in that particular environment.

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If that's the church where you think you would find the best fit, how can you help that body grow in love?

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And at the same time, even though you're walking in that place and you're looking at it like, boy, this place needs a lot of work.

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There are going to be ways in which you need a lot of work as well. Very true. And these brothers and sisters in the

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Lord. And sometimes it's patience. Exactly right. And wherever these brothers and sisters in the

24:25

Lord are in their Christian walk, there's nevertheless going to be ways that they will have opportunities to grow you and lift you up.

24:33

Now, this is definitely going to be a labor of love. And you being in your late 60s, you're probably not walking into a church like that thinking, well,

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I've got a lot of years to give to this church. But you could start something that will be picked up by another generation coming after you.

24:49

I've heard Mark Devers say, and I've heard John MacArthur say the same thing, that when you invest in cultivating a church that is grounded in scripture and the word, committed to expository teaching, being sanctified according to the word of Christ, that effort takes years.

25:09

Yes, it does. And it's not going to happen overnight. And when I say years, I mean, you're talking 40 years, an entire generation of people to move the church out of some messy doctrine into sound doctrine.

25:22

Now, there are leaps and bounds that are going to be accomplished that will happen very, very quickly. But then there are other areas in which it just seems like a very long drag in order to get from this point to this point.

25:34

Right. But it's going to take some commitment. So on your part, it would just be on you looking at this going, here's the opportunity that I have to help a body grow in love.

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And this body can help me grow in love. And may we do this to the glory and grace of God, our king.

25:50

Do you recommend him sitting down with a pastor in any capacity or? Certainly.

25:56

Oh, yeah. Yeah. I am sitting down with a pastor and explaining to him, you know, I like your church.

26:02

Here's what I like about it. Here's what I don't like about it so much. I remember a Billy Graham movie years ago.

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This was from like back in the 70s. Might have even been older than that. But, you know, Billy Graham's organization used to even make films.

26:17

OK. And there was a Billy Graham movie from way back when where this young guy becomes a

26:23

Christian and he starts attending this church as a new believer, brand new believer.

26:28

This was even the church where he became a Christian. But the pastor was even younger than him. And he had a hard time understanding the pastor because the pastor was still speaking like he had just come out of seminary.

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So he sounded like he was teaching a seminary class rather than helping the congregation understand some of the finer points of the gospel and the word of God.

26:48

OK. And so this guy who was a new believer was able to go to the pastor and say, I just don't understand what you're talking about.

26:55

You're talking about all this stuff, these terms, these terms, I don't get it. And then you don't explain what the terms mean.

27:02

And so I'm totally lost. And I'm a new believer here and I need help and you're not helping me. Well, that criticism was helpful for the pastor in helping him understand that as a teacher, it was his responsibility to help break down those terms so that members in his congregation could understand it.

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And I remember, I mean, I was a kid when I saw this movie, but I just remember how much of an influence just that scene had on even me as a pastor that I may have to break this down to a kindergarten level for you to understand it.

27:32

But that's that's part of my job as a pastor. I'm reading, you know, John Calvin's Institutes, but I can't be speaking like John Calvin's Institutes.

27:40

I've got to lose your wife. Loser mentally is what you're saying.

27:45

Yeah, yes, definitely. Mentally, not. Yeah. Anyway, I don't know.

27:51

I might die of boredom. Might lose you in that way. But not that she's walking out on me.

28:00

That's right. No, definitely not. So there are ways in which you might even help this pastor.

28:08

And then and then, of course, this pastor is supposed to be helping you as your shepherd. Yeah. If you're going to submit to the role that he's been given by God to serve in that church, but you might help him a great deal in the work that he has set before him to shepherd a congregation according to the word of God.

28:25

Don't just look at everything on the surface and then automatically decide, well, this place isn't for me.

28:31

If you had more options. Right. That would be different. Yeah. I may not be having the conversation with you in this way.

28:39

I may be telling you now you find the place where they're committed to expository preaching. Right.

28:45

And and and sharing the gospel. Talking about sin. It sounds like this town needs, you know, the sound doctrine.

28:51

Right. Established somewhere. The whole community is lacking. Yeah. And I grew up in small towns my whole life, all the way up until I got to college.

29:00

I was growing up in small towns. And so we went where we believed that the gospel was most accurately being preached in that church.

29:09

It wasn't perfect, but it was the best thing that there was in town. As far as the commitment to the word of God, the gospel is concerned.

29:17

Even talking about, you know, sin and the judgment of God and the gospel is what frees us from the wrath of God.

29:23

We're looking for those basic points on the gospel whenever we were searching for a church.

29:29

Might have some problems in some more secondary doctrinal areas, but at least the basics were there. And and that's what

29:36

I grew up around. So you just had to take what was the best thing that was there. And then as you're growing and maturing in the faith, you're helping that church to grow and mature.

29:46

So, yes, I certainly understand small towns in need of good, sound, solid churches, especially growing up in southwest

29:53

Kansas, where just about every single one of those little farming towns was in need of some good, solid teaching.

30:00

Probably nine out of ten of those towns. I remember what that was like. But this may be a way that you can help this church grow in in their knowledge and understanding of God's word.

30:11

Definitely. Thank you for your commitment to God's word. Yeah. And I hope I hope the

30:16

Lord has put you in a place where you're able to help some other believers grow. Rick, you're not you're not too old to help in these kinds of things.

30:25

Definitely not. I remember preaching at a church in Ashland, Kansas when I was in my 20s and there was a fellow that came up to me after church and like the young age in this church was 60.

30:39

I was the youngest person in the church. I was the youngest person there preaching. Of course, I was going to be in my 20s.

30:45

But but yeah, no. Then there was this huge gap between like 25 and 65.

30:51

OK. 40 year span where there's nobody in that church in that age range. And and there was an older fellow that came up to me and I, you know,

30:58

I'm even being generous. He was an old fellow, came up to me after church and said, that was a very nice speech, young man.

31:06

OK. And I said, well, thank you. And he said, but I think that message was more geared toward young people.

31:13

And I had to share with him, look, as long as you've got breath in your lungs, there's a work of God for you to do.

31:23

Even though you're 70 something, 80 something years old, however, however old the guy was. And so same with you,

31:30

Rick. I mean, you're you're a whippersnapper compared to that guy. Right. You've still got a work of God to do in your community.

31:37

And I pray that he's able to reveal that to you. Be grounded in the word and lead according to the word is about the best that I can tell you.

31:45

And I'll certainly be praying for you, too, that that God would give you wisdom in terms of the kind of church that you can select.

31:52

You can be a part of their next question comes from Michael. Hi, Pastor Gabe and wise wife.

31:58

Oh, I thank you for your ministry. It's helped me in my growth daily. And you both are in my prayers.

32:04

Thank you. My question is, I just finished school. Very nice. And plan to go to paramedic school.

32:12

During my time in the class, I saw people die and it's bothered me not knowing if God was in them.

32:19

How can I preach to or pray for my patients while taking care of them, especially when it's incredibly frowned upon to talk about God to a dying person when working?

32:30

Thank you all so much for your answers. I hope to meet you both in person in the future. Well, Michael, unfortunately,

32:36

I really don't have any good advice for you here because I'm the guy that people call when they don't want to be sharing the gospel with their patients or they don't know how.

32:46

Right. But it's like, hey, I have a pastor I know, and he'll come and share these things with you. And so on occasion,

32:51

I get calls from the hospital and I just go down there and this patient doesn't know me from Adam, but I'll stand there and share the gospel with them.

33:00

Sometimes I'll even sing hymns with them. And sometimes the nurses stick around and listen to me, and sometimes they don't.

33:06

But it's because the patient has requested speaking with somebody and the nurse of the orderly doesn't know how to do that.

33:12

And so they call me. And it just kind of depends on really how much you want to put your job on the line, because you may do this with some patients and you may get reprimanded for it.

33:25

True. Depending on who you work for. Somebody may tell you, no, I don't want you doing that. Or the patients have been complaining or something like that.

33:32

I don't know that it would be too different than walking up to a person on the sidewalk and sharing the gospel with them.

33:38

You could start by sharing something with one of your patients and they may shut you down. They may say, I don't want to talk about it.

33:44

And if that's the case, then don't. But you never know until you open that door and you begin speaking with your patients.

33:52

I would recommend that you talk to someone who has experience in this area. Somebody who's worked in a hospital, maybe even somebody who's been a chaplain.

34:01

But you want to look for a sound chaplain. Right. Not just any chaplain who's like one of those syncretism sort of guys where he just has a bunch of beliefs.

34:10

He'll talk to a Hindu about Hinduism. He'll talk to a Muslim about Muslimism.

34:17

Muslimism. Or Jehovah's Witnesses or New Agers or any of these other things.

34:24

But they're not committed to just teaching the gospel and teaching Christ. So you want to find somebody who is sound in their doctrine and has experience as a chaplain.

34:33

And maybe they could give you some advice and some tips there. And maybe be picky about who you go to work for, because there's some

34:42

Christian hospitals. I think they're more Catholic hospitals than Christian. But just see if there's any openings with some sort of Christian organization hospital and see if you can go work there, because then you wouldn't have to worry so much about the scrutiny.

34:59

Right. You have Methodist, Presbyterian, Wesleyan and Baptist hospitals. Those are the four denominations that you'll find most commonly in hospital.

35:08

Lutheran would be the other one, apart from the Catholic hospitals. But I can think of around here is the

35:15

Catholic ones. But even the Catholic hospitals would probably be totally open to you being there and sharing the gospel with patients.

35:22

Right. You just yeah, like Becky said, you just have to ask. Yeah. I mean, that's my best advice.

35:29

You've had, I think, an aunt that was working at, was it the Wesleyan Hospital in Wichita?

35:35

Is that where she was? Yeah. She was a nurse there. Worked on the oncology,

35:41

I believe. Yeah. Floor. And then I had a cousin who worked at the. Over in Manhattan.

35:47

Manhattan one, yeah. I remember that too. I hope that advice was helpful to you, Michael. All right.

35:52

We've got 20 or so minutes left here. Becky, you're really going to love this next segment. Okay. This person has asked to be anonymous.

36:00

They say, thank you for the great work that you do. Cincinnati's largest megachurch is literally kicking the word of God around the stage for Super Bowl weekend.

36:11

You can see the male and female pastor, man and woman pastor, throwing and kicking the

36:17

Bible like it's a football. What? And then this person gives me the link to their.

36:23

Let's see, what was this called? Super Bowl. Metaphorically. No, they really are kicking it around. I watched it.

36:29

It's the Super Bowl of Preaching 2020. To save you the agony of watching all of it, this moment happens at the 1733 mark of the video.

36:37

Can you please warn people not to go here? It is the largest megachurch in Cincinnati.

36:44

It's called Crossroads Church. When I pulled it up and I started watching it. And they kick around, I just can't.

36:51

Okay, to their credit. Okay. To their credit. I was going to save this until we got to the segment where they were kicking the

36:57

Bible. To their credit, it looked like it was an empty Bible case. Okay. That they kicked.

37:02

So it probably didn't actually have the Bible in it. It doesn't matter. But it's still kicking the

37:08

Bible. And that's exactly what they said they were doing. It was the Bible kickoff. They're kicking the Bible across the stage.

37:14

So again, it was probably an empty case. The Bible wasn't actually in it. But yeah, they're still. Yeah, still showing themselves kicking the

37:21

Bible. Wow. And that was their kickoff to the Super Bowl of Preaching 2020.

37:28

Now, when I pulled this up and I saw who the pastor was, I was like, okay, yeah, I recognize that guy. I don't know that I associate him with being in Cincinnati.

37:36

But yeah, once I saw him, I was like, I got it. All right. Okay. But yeah, I did watch a little bit more than just the 1733 mark.

37:43

I did not take this person's advice. And I watched about a good 45 minutes of it. And it's awful.

37:48

Oh boy. I would say that the kicking the Bible part was not even the worst part. What? The preaching is wretched.

37:56

So here we go. Oh goodness. Here's the beginning. And here's how the members of this congregation are introduced to the

38:02

Super Bowl of Preaching 2020. If you've ever wondered about what this possibly could be, here's your introductory video.

38:10

Thanks. Today, you're going to have more fun at church than you thought was possible.

38:16

There will be a preaching competition. There will be a halftime show. There will be epic commercials.

38:22

It's going to be great. You're telling the truth, Lena. My hips don't lie and neither do you. Shakira, Shakira. That's right.

38:31

You look like you've been sucking on lemons, babe. You didn't like that reference?

38:40

Yeah. We're just getting started. Oh boy. Now check this out. We've been doing this thing for 18 years.

38:46

The Super Bowl of Preaching has been happening for 18 years now. Yep. And we do that because historically across the country,

38:53

Super Bowl weekend has been the least attended church weekend nationwide. And we decided to change all that. Yep.

38:59

As Jenny from The Block once said, we used to have a little, now we have a lot. That's right. Word to Ja Rule right there.

39:05

All right. So by the way, we are legally obligated to state that this is not the actual

39:11

Super Bowl. Anyway, there's no reason to go through all of that. But that's the way the church service begins is with these two

39:19

Yahoos explaining to you what the Super Bowl of Preaching 2020 is all about. And this church does this because Super Bowl weekend is the lowest attended weekend.

39:29

So why don't we just... Make it a game? Right. Turn it into an absolute circus. Wow. This is as bad as the

39:36

Pope watching that circus. Yeah. Literally a circus. Right. That was insane. Yeah. This is, wow.

39:43

So now, so skipping the rest of that, this is probably another 15 minutes or so in after they've done the interviews, which were, but I'm not going to go through all of that.

39:52

Okay. But now they're explaining. I guess, thank you. Now they're explaining the rules.

39:59

So here's the rules to the Super Bowl of Preaching. Oh boy. So here are the rules for today's game, though let's be honest, we tend to make a lot of this stuff up as we go.

40:10

Am I right? We do, yeah. But here's what we know so far. Each team will preach two six minute quarters. Each preacher may use three reference sources.

40:17

One has to be the Bible. Well, I'm glad they're using the Bible. Oh, maybe. Well, they're going to use it to kick it.

40:25

Coming up here in just a little bit, but yeah. So you got to preach and you have to use three sources.

40:32

Oh, and one of them has to be the Bible. But you even have to qualify that. It's novel. In each quarter, preachers will be given a random phrase that they must effectively work into their message.

40:43

And my understanding is these are completely random. They have never seen them before.

40:49

Seriously. You know what's more random than Rob Lowe showing up at an NFL game with a referee hat on? Tell me, Paco. These phrases that we've got today.

40:56

Okay, now speaking of referee, the referee today has complete jurisdiction over whether or not the player has adequately met the above criteria and will award points accordingly.

41:06

And we're not exactly sure of his background and how great he's going to be at this. It should be interesting.

41:12

That's right. So here is how you get points. A compelling message in six minutes or less, six points.

41:19

Correct use of the random phrase, three points. Bible trivia, correct answer.

41:25

That's important, one point. And lastly, there is an opportunity for penalty in losing three points.

41:32

Preaching penalties today, negative points. Negative points. This should be very, very entertaining and very, very interesting.

41:39

And right now we're going back to the booth with Greg and Chuck. Take it away. We need more

41:45

Zoom sound effects on this program. I don't know how these people can hear anything after that. That would be deafening.

41:53

You know, I took a persuasion class in college. It was part of my communications major.

41:58

Sound effects were part of that? Right. And just in that class,

42:03

I mean, you're not even talking about preaching homiletics classes, okay? If you were to present this to a secular persuasion class, to communications majors at a university, they would tell you this is a terrible idea because the point is no longer the message that you're preaching or that you even want the people in your audience to hear what it is that you're communicating to them.

42:29

No, it's just a game. Right, it's all a game. It sounds like a game that you would watch on TV. Exactly. So cognitively in everybody's mind, they're processing this and receiving this as just a gimmick.

42:40

They're not hearing a message that's being communicated. Right. Because when they listen to the preacher, what they're going to be listening for is, okay, he used a

42:48

Bible reference. Okay, he used his random phrase. Right. Okay, he uses another reference.

42:53

So they're tallying points in their head. They're not actually listening to what the pastor is communicating.

42:59

And what was that about being correct? Oh, it had to be the random phrase had to be used correctly.

43:05

But the referee was going to determine whether or not it was used in a proper way in order to award the points.

43:11

Okay. But so you've got these pastor teams up there on the stage. And then after he gets done with his message, the ref is going to come up and tally the points.

43:21

Everybody cheers, applauds. Now what I'm going to skip, we're going to get straight to where they do the coin toss.

43:26

Okay. For this. I'm going to skip the whole introduction. They're running in by, you know, an announcer.

43:33

Like a game show. Right. Yeah. Like Michael Buffer in a boxing match. Okay. In this corner.

43:38

Oh, okay. They do all of that. The pastor runs, he runs down the aisle, he's slapping high fives with everybody.

43:44

I mean. You mean like a football game? Well, yeah, like a football game, but it's. I know, I'm just kidding. That's not the really the way that, yeah.

43:50

They don't announce people in football. They don't even announce people in football games that way. Not unless it's senior day at a small school.

43:58

Yeah, something like that. But they're still not as corny and cheesy as all of this is. And by the way, watching all of this,

44:04

I'm going, this isn't even. I wouldn't go to a secular event like this.

44:10

It's so dumb. And they think that this is entertaining people. I mean, there are people that are buying right into it because there's tens of thousands of people that attend these churches and their various campuses.

44:22

So again, this it's like the seventh largest church in the U .S. Is this church in Cincinnati? They're being as irreverent here in church as the people evidently are in their hearts.

44:34

Right, exactly. So, yeah, where Paul talks about that the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears, they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.

44:53

Verse five, this is second Timothy four that I'm reading from verse five. As for you, always be sober minded, endure suffering, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

45:03

And elsewhere, Paul has talked about him from the first letter that he sent to Timothy, be devoted to sound teaching and don't let anyone teach any different doctrine, wandering off into myths and endless speculation.

45:14

And that's what these messages you're going to hear are going to be. They're myth and speculation, because this is if you took the

45:21

Bible reference out that this pastor is going to use, it's a motivational speech. Oh, OK.

45:27

It's all it is, is a motivational speech with a Bible reference in it. Well, it doesn't sound like they're trying to focus on the

45:32

Bible verse anyway. Oh, certainly not. Yeah, it's not focused on the gospel. It's not focused on Christ. It's all about entertaining the people and especially entertaining the goats, because this is all that seeker sensitive.

45:43

Hey, we just want people to come to church and be entertained. Right. And we can't we don't want them to skip church. Yeah, we can't get people to come on Super Bowl Sunday.

45:51

So we're going to do something just absolutely cornball in order to get them there. Bring it in for the coin toss.

45:58

I want a good, clean game. Brian, as home team, you will call the coin in the air.

46:03

This is the coin. This side is heads. This side is tape. No, this side is heads.

46:09

This one is, you know, we'll just call it when it lands. Call it in the air. Tails! What I'll be kicking.

46:17

It. Yeah, let's just go with tails. Would you like to kick or receive the Bible? I will receive.

46:23

Tom wins the toss, chooses to receive the Bible. Patterson back with the kick. Oh my goodness.

46:34

Is that a touchback? Can you even get a touchback? First time in 18 years, there's a touchback for the kickoff.

46:42

The glitter shoes going to work. Wow. Everybody touch your back. He has no idea what a touchback means.

46:50

He does not know what a touchback means. All right, Brian, please choose your random phrase.

46:57

So there you go. They're kicking a Bible. I mean, the irreverence there, the disrespect for the word of God, which he's not even going to teach when we get to the, you know, as much of the sermon as we're going to get to here.

47:11

It's only like six minutes long anyway. But the reverence for Christ and his word just simply isn't there.

47:18

They're kicking it before he gets to it, which he doesn't even preach it. All he does is give a motivational speech for the people with Jesus' name attached.

47:27

So they feel like they're getting their little religious kick. No pun intended.

47:32

No pun intended. Yeah. But, you know, this is going back again to 2 Timothy 4. Yeah. Let me jump back to verse 1.

47:39

I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by the appearing and his kingdom.

47:47

By his appearing and his kingdom. Preach the word. Be ready in season and out of season.

47:54

In football season, out of football season. Preach the word. Don't do

47:59

Super Bowl of preaching. Preach the word. Every Sunday is the Super Bowl of preaching.

48:04

If you're preaching from the word of Christ. Reprove, rebuke, and exhort with complete patience and teaching.

48:12

For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears, they accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions.

48:21

You notice the contrast there between you teach soundly, because a time is coming in which people are not going to listen to sound teaching.

48:28

They're going to listen. They're going to look for the unsound teachers. So because their hearts are dark and they don't even want

48:34

Christ in his word, they're going to look for the guys who will fulfill that false office for their false church that they want to be attending.

48:42

But you need to be a true pastor in a true church teaching the true word of God.

48:48

There's the contrast that Paul puts between the charge he gives to Timothy versus the false teachers that people are going to go after.

48:57

You be faithful to your ministry. Fulfill your ministry. Even though people are going to wander after myths and go after the false teachers.

49:04

Don't follow after them going, wait, wait, guys, wait. I think I've changed. Yeah, I can change it and make it and make it better for you.

49:11

Come back, come back, come back over here. Now, what does he say? As for you endure suffering, be sober minded, do the work of an evangelist and fulfill your ministry.

49:23

Don't go chasing after the masses. You preach the word and the sheep will follow the voice of the good shepherd.

49:30

Amen. So now we're going to get to the. Oh, there's more. Yeah. Sorry, babe, we're not ending there.

49:37

We're going to get into the. It was a great spot to end. Just saying.

49:44

Yeah, maybe I should. Maybe I should just close it up there. But we've got a few minutes left.

49:49

Okay. Okay, you want to you want to fill it with some wonderfully terrible teaching? I was thinking something sound, but sure.

49:57

Your random phrase is. That's why you pillage before you burn.

50:05

Oh, that's why you pillage before you burn. Wow. Let's see what he does with this.

50:11

Yeah, we're going to have some fun today, but we also want to spiritually grow today. So let's pray a little before we go any further.

50:17

God, thank you for the ability to laugh. And I pray for growth, real growth and real insights to happen to all of us who are a part of the

50:25

Super Bowl preaching today. I pray these things according to the character and identity of Jesus. Amen.

50:31

That surprised me. That was actually pretty sound prayer. Yeah, right. That we would grow according to the identity of Jesus.

50:37

But how do you grow according to the identity of Jesus? In the Bible. By reading his word. Kicking around.

50:43

Yeah. Okay. So anyway, I could see where some people get the idea that maybe they are sound.

50:50

Just, you know, filling in the blanks. Well, there's a lot of blanks. With that kind of introduction to the message he's going to preach.

50:57

Sure. But the message itself. I mean, it's complete. Well, I meant the prayer. I'm still sticking to the prayer. That was.

51:03

I know. That's what I'm saying. Okay. Yeah. With that kind of introduction. Yeah. But what's coming up in the message is devoid of anything that would shape you into the identity of Christ.

51:12

Yeah. Okay. So I don't know about you, but I like to win. Anybody else like to win? I like to win.

51:18

Winning doesn't necessarily mean beating the person just sitting beside you. It means whatever lane

51:24

God has you in, you need to win at that. Whatever it is, there's something

51:29

God wants out of your life and you've got to win. And the truth is, many of us in here are not winning.

51:36

Many of us are losing. Many of us are not happy how our relational life is going. We're not happy with where our credit card is.

51:44

We're not happy with a variety of things. And for those of us who are losing, it doesn't mean that we're a loser. It means you're primed for a comeback.

51:53

You're primed for a comeback. You're primed to go to a whole new place. I think we can learn something from Jesus today, because Jesus wasn't always sitting on top of everything.

52:03

In fact, oftentimes Jesus had significant, massive, massive pain. And the way that He ended up winning, because all people, whether atheist, agnostic,

52:13

Islam, Jewish, Christian, whatever stripe we are, would recognize Him as the most influential person in all of human history, bar none.

52:22

How did He win? He had amazing comeback. And specifically what He did is He knew how to cheat.

52:29

Yes, He knew how to cheat. By cheating, what I'm describing that as is similar to say, well, she knows she cheated death in that car accident.

52:38

Cheating is something should have happened and something totally different happened. How does a guy who's from Nazareth become who he is today?

52:47

It's like he cheated the history of Nazareth. This is a guy who went off script.

52:52

This is a guy when the system came his way and they said, you should play this way.

52:58

He went against the rules of that culture to enable himself to be the powerful person.

53:04

He cheated the system. All right, I give, I give. That's as far as we'll go.

53:12

Becky's got her head in her hands. Oh my goodness. I can't take it anymore.

53:17

This is the irreverent silly myths that Paul was warning Timothy to stay away from.

53:22

Have nothing to do with irreverent silly myths, but rather train yourself for godliness. People just read your

53:29

Bible. And he won't even do that. He's got one verse reference, I think. Not him, the people attending the church and they will know that they are just wrong.

53:40

Test all things. Oh my goodness. Hold fast to what is good and abhor what is evil. And yeah, this is a congregation that's not testing all things.

53:46

They are storing up for themselves teachers to suit their own passions. That's exactly what they're doing. And they love hearing the messages where Jesus cheated his circumstances.

53:55

Jesus went off script. That's the kind of stuff they wanna hear. Not that Jesus was submitting to the will of the father.

54:02

Well, no, because that's not what our society's all about. Yeah. So if we are to be

54:07

Christian and like Christ, we are gonna take the narrow path that is not society as a whole because society has a very wide path.

54:16

Yes. That is, yeah. Enter the narrow. All about cheating and not taking responsibility and not reading, not verifying.

54:25

Rebelling, going against the system. That's what you, I mean, you're dead on. It's just, oh man.

54:33

Yes, you're dead on. He is absolutely appealing to the kind of vocalizations and things like that you hear exactly from our culture.

54:41

Yep. So avoid Crossroads Church in Cincinnati. Yeah. And thank you to my anonymous contributor asking me to raise awareness about that.

54:51

And evangelize to them. I don't like you for asking me to, yes, right. This church is a target for evangelism.

54:56

Oh, definitely. These people need to hear the word of God and they need to hear the gospel. Anyway, what

55:02

I was saying, I didn't wanna leave that thought unfinished, but I don't like you for asking me to listen to that. And then, but I appreciate your love for the people at this church and the people in Cincinnati that they would not be led astray by this kind of tripe.

55:17

Yeah. A blasphemous mistreatment of God's word, even to the point of kicking it across the stage.

55:25

So let's pray. We'll conclude here with prayer. Just for the show of it. Yeah, all right. Yeah, all of it was just for a big show, a big circus, entertaining the goats instead of feeding the sheep.

55:37

Heavenly Father, we pray that we would be committed to your word and so committed to it that we warn those who are being led astray by a bunch of Christianese that sounds like it might be a godly.

55:51

But as Paul had said to the Colossians, I say these things that no one leads you astray by plausible arguments.

55:59

We are committed to the word of God. We test all things according to this word. And when we see something that is false, we recognize it is false.

56:08

It's not God's word. And so we test all things according to this because it is only by God's word that we are sanctified and we're shaped into the image of Christ.

56:17

The speaker there had even prayed that we would be more like Christ. Well, they're not gonna accomplish that if they're not committed to the word.

56:26

So may we be committed to your word. May we rebuke and exhort and teach according to this word just as Timothy was instructed.

56:33

And I pray that we know how to do that wisely and gently giving an answer for the hope that lies within us, doing this with gentleness and respect as we're instructed to do in 1

56:43

Peter 3, 15. Lead us in your truth and sanctify us in your truth. Your word is truth.

56:51

And we pray these things in Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. You are just gonna love what we're doing today.

58:04

Well, it is February, love month. It's love month. You're cold?

58:12

I'm freezing. I had that heater going for a whole 10 minutes. And it's not as cold as I expected. So thank you.

58:19

I suppose. Would have been better the other day because I left it going all night and I didn't realize that.

58:26

No. When I came in here in the morning, it was like, wow, it's like 80 degrees in here. That's awesome.

58:32

Feels great. I recorded three books of the Bible. Right, yes.

58:39

Wasn't that many. About 22 chapters. Still, that's awesome. It was easier to do when the room was warm.

58:46

Yeah, I think I'm gonna go get a blanket. Okay, go for it. Because otherwise you'll hear my teeth chattering.