Interview with David Buboltz

Hello, this is Truth and Love. I'm thankful that you decided to watch the video and join us for this occasion.

I hope this video will encourage you and will spur you on for gospel ministry, for sharing the gospel, for many other gospel -related issues, especially the topic that we're going to talk about tonight.

I have a very, very special guest, a gentleman that I have met recently, and I was excited to meet and to know what he and his friends are doing.

I'm excited to join him in the fight, join him in the, just meet another brother in Christ who is working for the

Lord, acknowledging that Jesus is king, not just spiritually, but in all realms, all aspects of life.

And we are working for him, submitting to him, love him, and we want to share

Jesus and his kingdom and how that manifests itself in all areas of life.

And tonight we're going to be, I'm such in the habit of using,

I keep wanting to say pro -life, and I've got to stop using that terminology, but we're going to be,

I'm trying to frame, and maybe you can help me, David, on how to frame what I want to say, but the issue that we're going to be talking about is,

I keep thinking about anti -abortion, the life issue, that's what we're going to be talking about tonight.

And I am joined by a very special person, David Bubuls, and you'll get to know why

I think that he's a very special person later on in the interview. So without any further ado, let's jump right in.

And David, would you take just a moment and introduce yourself, let us know who you are? First of all, if I'm special in any way, it's only because God used us.

I mean, literally I should be dead. And God just uses us in ways that's great.

It's a privilege, I guess, that God would use us.

So basically, I'm David Bubuls.

I'm a Christian. I always knew the Sunday school answer, but I would say maybe seven, 10 years ago, there's probably a period of a couple of years where, because I already knew that Jesus was the answer since I was a kid.

So it wasn't so radically transformative, but it was certainly a season of time when

I got saved. And then, yeah, that's me.

I'm a Christian. I'm a husband, a father of three, now three girls, now a fourth child.

Praise God, my wife's pregnant. And a business owner, I was an engineer, had broke away from that and started some couple of small businesses, but that's just allowed me some good flexible time, which has really been a blessing for doing some ministry work.

Well, just right off the cuff, to the best of your ability,

I'm going to throw this question out at you. The abortion issue, the life issue, why are you and I having this conversation right now?

I mean, look, there's 30 ,000 children that get killed in North Carolina every year.

It's the leading cause of death. It dwarfs cancer. It dwarfs heart disease. It dwarfs any sort of car accidents or anything like that.

It certainly dwarfs COVID. And we act like it doesn't exist.

I just, and I'm really guilty of this too. It's like we grew up.

We grew up in a place where Roe was essentially settled.

That was before my time. And it's like you grew up in a house full of filth and you don't realize it's dirty.

And then you step outside and you get a breath of fresh air and you look and you're like, this is a pigsty.

And it's a major problem. And we've got a church on every street corner in America, really, certainly in North Carolina.

And if you were to have a foreigner come to North Carolina, would they know that there's a genocide of children going on?

And I would venture to say, no. Jeremiah says, you've healed the wounds of my people lightly and said, peace, peace, when there is no peace.

You look outside and it's peaceful. It's relatively peaceful. It does not look like the leading cause of death is murder of children in the womb.

And there's no justice for them. So I think through that is

God's really kind of now, I believe, wakening up the church and a lot of scales are coming off people's eyes.

And through that is how we connected. Absolutely. And I'm going to have you repeat that number because I don't want people to misunderstand that number that you gave is not in America.

That's North Carolina. Yeah. And it's even worse than that.

And, you know, I even hate saying numbers because even one murder is in the womb is bad enough, but it's,

I think the real, the statistic, the numbers somewhere around 28 or 29 ,000 surgical abortions that we know about.

So it's leaving a lot off the table when I even use the 30 ,000 number, because one, it's a cash -based business.

I sell, I help people sell small businesses. We know what happens with cash -based businesses.

A lot of that's under -reported. Two, a lot of chemical abortions are not reported.

Three, we have plan B, which is over the counter at every CVS, Walgreens, and Walmart, completely no statistics on that.

We've got IVF, which is in vitro fertilization, where, you know, they'll take, you know, maybe 20 embryos and fertilize them all.

They will grade them. And some of them are deemed not strong enough.

And so they discard them and basically kill them, let them die. And then they'll implant some of those in the womb, and then they'll freeze a smaller subsection of them in cryogenic prison.

So for every IVF child born, there's about 20 human lives destroyed in that process.

And then we've got hormonal birth control, which is rampant in the church. It isn't abort efficient.

It's a mechanism of action to thin the lining of the uterus. And so eggs will sometimes, you know, get implanted, will conceive, and sperm and egg come together.

We have fertilization, we have conception. And as it's traveling down the fallopian tube and goes to implant into the uterus, into the womb, the womb has been largely chemically poisoned to be too thin to accept implantation.

And the medical industry has defined implantation is when pregnancy starts. So they'll say hormonal birth control does not terminate a pregnancy, but it does terminate a human life.

So you add all that on top of the 30 ,000 surgical number,

I don't know where we're at, but it could be 100 ,000, could be 200 ,000. And that's just North Carolina.

We're getting to the point where numbers are too big to even like, rationally make sense of.

You know, like, what's the difference between a billion and a trillion? It's a big gap, but it's hard to conceptualize that.

And so we're getting, we're into those numbers with genocide. Yeah. I'm glad you gave us all that additional information because that can be very eye -opening and helpful for people because I'm going to use the word callous, as you described the situation that we're in, this is how things have always been.

So we're callous. And so I think our minds go to, we think of three things, you know, we've all heard of Roe versus Wade.

We've all heard the term abortion and we think of Planned Parenthood, but you just opened our eyes to all these other many ways where we end lives, end the life of new persons.

And so I'm praying that, you know, this information is going to open up eyes and people will see the severity.

And like you said, we don't want to minimize the fact that we lose one person, but boy, you know, when you get up into the thousands and hundreds of thousands, if not more, that's incredibly sad.

Yeah. And, you know, I've found that sometimes the

IVF and hormonal birth control issue is harder for Christians to take or to take seriously.

And maybe that's because we're involved in it more, you know, like sometimes when we've got to really take some hard looks at ourselves and our own lives and our own actions in the past, it's easy to say, well,

I never killed a child in abortion before. But then when we start saying all these other things, you know, like maybe

I have killed a child through hormonal birth control, you know, and at best, at best it's manslaughter.

You know, I should have known, I should have done my research to not put these chemicals in my wife's body.

You know, I should have known this, but I didn't. And it caused a loss of life.

That it's manslaughter, but at worst it's, it is murder on, on your heart.

And, and everyone kind of has a crossroads where especially hormone, hormone and birth control is really kind of covered up and people don't like to talk about it.

And they obfuscate this, you know, with different words, how, like we're talking about how they redefine pregnancy to mean implantation, not fertilization.

And, but now, now that someone knows there's a choice that they got to make, you know, we can say

I was ignorant before I shouldn't have been, I'll still, I was still responsible for what

I did, but you know what? Oh, there was a level of ignorance there. But now that, now that I know there's a crossroads and people either harden or they soften, you know, it's just like, it's just like a

God, like the gospel, you know, people either harden or soft, soften to the gospel and, and it's the same thing here.

And so I really, really pray that the church wakens up to this and softens the heart and has compassion on our own children who are dying in our, literally in our church pews.

You know, you go to a church and there's a couple hundred people standing, giving praises to God.

And if one quarter of those women are on birth control, there's children dying in those pews while we're singing praises to Jesus.

And, and it's, you know, I have, I don't exactly know where I stand on the spiritual realm, like, but I think that there's actually, you know, a spiritual component to all of this, which is aiding to the scales on the church's eyes.

When we have bloodshed, even unintentionally or unknowingly in our churches, it can cloud.

There could be a spiritual haze to that because that blood guilt is still there, whether we recognize it or not.

And so I think that's all a huge component of it. Absolutely.

So we're coming up on 50 years, the 50th anniversary of Roe versus Wade.

So describe to us the churches, the Christian strategy that you've seen from then until now, the most popular strategy.

Well, you got to go all the way back to before Roe v. Wade, you know, and I'm not trying to throw anyone under the bus here, but it's important to put all this in context is, you know, even people like Billy Graham was saying,

Hey, look, we, in some cases of rape and incest, abortion's okay. And this is a couple of years before Roe.

So the, the, the groundwork was already, the compromise was already there in the church and in the house of God before Roe was overturned.

So I think it's important to know that, that, like we, God's church laid the groundwork of compromise and Roe followed after that.

And, and so that's why it's so important when, when we're really big sticklers as abolitionists to say no exceptions, none,

God did not say that because we got here by people like Billy Graham saying, well, maybe we should have some exceptions and that's, that's the sin.

Like that's how the devil works. He gets you by just putting your foot into sin, you know, just put your foot in the water and then, and then, and then you just start to, it starts to snowball.

So we got to be hypersensitive to, to those exceptions. And so the response of the church, you know,

I don't have a lot of good foresight back then, cause I wasn't alive. But there never was an immediate call to repentance from our nation.

Like, I mean, there was still probably, you know, a way majority of the population even then was, or even more so would be called

Christians. And we can't, there's no, where's the, where's the moral outrage?

You know, I wasn't alive there, but I just feel like if they wouldn't have compromised from the get go, we wouldn't be here today.

And the strategy for the last five decades has been, let's just minimize and reduce the number of children killed, or at least attempt to reduce the number of children killed and ease our way out of this, incrementally get ourselves out of this sin.

And that's not what God says. Like God says, do not murder.

He doesn't say do not murder unless they're 20 weeks old. And so we don't treat any other sin this way.

And like, we know this as Christians that we don't treat sin this way. Imagine like if you were a

Christian counselor and you're counseling a guy who is in adultery and you said,

Hey, look, you're sleeping with this woman seven days a week. You need to slowly get out of it. Let's try to bring it down to five days a week and then one days a week, and then some phone calls and emails.

And then maybe once a year, you could do some long walks on the beach together. It's like, no, that's not how you treat sin.

The only answer to that is immediate stopping of that sin and immediate repentance.

You know, and so we know this, we know this, if it's cases of rape or pedophile or any of that, we treat it that way.

But for some reason, when it comes to killing children in the womb, we do want to slowly reduce it and get our way out.

And that's been the strategy for the past five decades. And, you know, look,

National Right to Life spent 15 years and basically a quarter billion dollars to get partial birth abortion done on a federal level.

And it didn't affect anything. It didn't affect one child. It affected the baby's positioning by four inches, and that child still dies.

And it didn't save one life. And so what were we fighting for? You know, we, and by the way, a partial birth abortion is like such a sliver of the abortions that happen.

You know, we're not, it's not even fighting the battle. And we celebrate that, right?

I mean, everyone celebrates it. We high five each other. We say, good job. We're winning the battle. We're winning.

And the whole pro -life community establishment, when

I would say the pro -life movement, it can largely be a business.

And you need those victories. And you need the rah -rah. We're winning. You know, we got them on the run.

And we're causing more abortions than ever. We really are. And some people will say that we are making ground because there's certain cases where abortion numbers have stagnated or gone down a little bit.

But the reality is we're killing children earlier and more efficient than ever before.

Like how we, like how we first started talking about that 30 ,000 number is surgical abortions, right?

So if we kill more children through hormonal birth control and plan B and chemical birth, chemical abortions earlier, they don't hit that statistic.

So yeah, we're not winning, right? We're not. And five decades later, where are we?

And here's a doozy for you too. Five decades later, it's still legal for a woman to kill her own child at any stage up until birth on her own in every state.

So people like to say you can't have abortion after 20 weeks in North Carolina. No, an abortionist can't perform an abortion after 20 weeks.

But there's no exception. There's no restrictions for the mother herself.

And as technology advances, DIY abortions are becoming a reality.

Like when I first started to get into the battle, I used to think being at the clinic was the battle.

Now it's certainly a big part of the battle and an important part of the battle.

So I do not want to minimize that with this statement at all. But I thought that was the battle, but it's actually a sliver of the battle.

And we need to think comprehensively. And the way things are going, abortion clinics will be out of business.

Not because we're not killing children, but because technology will have advanced to the point where they're no longer necessary, but we'll be killing more children than ever.

And so I think it was in Tennessee that an abortion clinic burned down.

And some may cheer for that, but you're informing us, you're educating us that there are so many other means now that we are killing children that we're not going to need those clinics anymore.

They do abortions in hospitals. Yeah, yeah. And you were talking about compromise, and it made me think about how we discuss often one of Satan's greatest strategies, which is to question

God's word, going back to the garden, did God really say? And so we fall for that temptation, and then at least this compromise.

And as you were talking, I couldn't help but think about the interview that I listened to you and your fellow abolitionist,

Wayne, did on another podcast. And what he said, one of the approaches that you guys have when you have conversations with folks, when you go talk to senators or whatever, it was the simple comment, who, how did he say it?

Basically, who are you accountable to? You're accountable to God. And so when you mentioned the name

Billy Graham, I'm thinking about how, I think it takes a lot of courage to mention a name like that, because you could get a lot of backlash from people in the church because he's such a hero of the faith.

But when there's compromise, there's compromise. And you've got to ask yourself, who am

I accountable to? Am I accountable to, do I have a fear of God or fear of man? Am I going to be afraid of the backlash being less popular because I called out compromise or am

I going to understand that I'm accountable to God and take on the possible backlash from speaking out on compromise?

And so I applaud you for that. And I think everybody needs to step back and realize that we should have a fear of God instead of fear of man.

Yeah. And it's really hard, especially people in the pro -life community who are leaders in the pro -life community and pastors, because if we've been leading the church for a long time, you probably largely pushed these sinful compromised ideals, ideas.

And it's hard. It's really hard. I know this because I'm a human being too.

When we're pushed for something and led people in a direction and now we're being told that's sin, it takes a lot to go back and say, wow,

I was wrong. I repent of that. And there's a tendency to just hang on to your flesh and dig your heels in and plug your ears and just keep on trucking.

But the scorecard's not written here on earth, like you're saying. God's watching all of this.

But you know what? There's no condemnation in Christ. That's the thing. Do we really believe the gospel?

I know a God who forgives murderers. I do. And he certainly will forgive us for pro -life compromise and pro -life apathy, but it takes repentance and it takes turning away from that.

And you know what? Every time, my own life and other examples, it's like when there's repentance,

God is so merciful. And we think that it's going to hurt us to repent.

And we think that it's going to, you know, degrade everything we've worked for.

But God's so merciful that he oftentimes, you know, blesses that.

And you find yourselves on the backside of repentance and restoration.

And it's a beautiful, wonderful thing. So if someone's listening to this and they haven't really, you know, and we're saying things that look, the pro -life community is in sin.

And that's hard. Look, we can turn from this and get back on track.

Well, and you've kind of answered the next question, how has that worked? And you definitely answered that question.

We're killing more. We're doing it more officially. And the strategy has not worked.

No. And so that, and you've talked about how the part of that strategy is the legislation part of it.

And how the legislation part of it is not working. And you use the terms incrementalism and regulation.

And so what do you believe about this strategy of incrementalism and regulation? Yeah. Legislation.

Yep. Let me, and let me go back to one point. You said it largely hasn't worked.

And you're right. It hasn't. But we got to not fall into the trap of what works and what doesn't work.

We have to, we have to always ask ourselves, what does God say? Right.

And what does God want us to do? And we follow that and the results are up to God. I'm reformed.

I believe you're reformed. Also, you know, God changes the hearts and minds of people.

Right. And, but the call was given to us sovereignly to be a prophetic message, to, to disciple the nations, to, to, to make an accurate call of what

God, an accurate proclamation of what God says. And the results are up to him. So I do believe that if we, if we act biblically, it will be better and babies will be saved.

But even if they, if they weren't, we would have to do what God says over there.

I'm talking to a lot of pro -lifers and they say, Dave, we're on the same team. You know, we all want the same thing.

I said, what's that? Well, we all want to save babies. Well, no, see, we, we got us, we got to focus on what honors

God. Right. First. And if we're compromising on what

God says to save babies, we're never going to be in a good spot. Right.

So that was that, that point. But I really believe that if we do what

God says, it actually will save more and more children. Absolutely. And, and if I could make a point before you get to the legislation part of it, you know, you, you're making me think about going to Matthew chapter 28 and for so long, you know, we call it the great commission.

And for so long, we, we think that is solely evangelism. It's an evangelistic message, but Jesus says all authority has been given to me in heaven and on earth.

Therefore go make disciples and teach them all that I've commanded you and teaching them all that he's commanded includes this.

So it's, it is evangelistic. It is gospel messages. It's gospel spreading, but it's also his teaching, making them disciples.

And this is part of it and not compromising on that message. Yep. That's right.

And I think that's largely where, you know, going into legislation here is where the church has kind of falls, fell short.

There's, there's a real tendency to be pietistic, meaning like,

Hey, look, I got an, I got to know I got to do what's right in my life and the world's the world's going to be the world.

And as long as me and my family are doing the right thing, you know, but we're not taking the gospel to the culture at that point, you know, like, like the gospel applies and God's law applies to the legislature as much as it does my personal life.

And so exactly what you're saying. I know a guy first heard it from a guy in Virginia, Jason Garwood, he says all of Christ for all of life.

And I think about that often it's yes, we do need to be pious and have internal holiness and strive for that, but don't have a truncated gospel because if you leave it at that, that's half, that's, that's only part of the equation.

The other part of the equation is we've got to disciple the nations, right? Like, so yeah, so, so to legislation, the way that, you know, politicians have, have fought this is incrementalism, which is slowly chipping away and say, trying to save more and more children as we go.

But at each one of those terms, it is compromised. Like in, in, in North Carolina, the easy example is you can't kill a child over 20 weeks, over 20 weeks old.

Well, literally written into law, it says you can kill a child under 20 weeks old.

So that piece of pro -life legislation quite literally writes into law when and where and how you can kill a child, you know, or you got to wait 72 hours after counseling.

Okay. Or, you know, people want to push ultrasound long. So you have to have an ultrasound done.

Okay. You're just putting stipulations of when and where and how you can kill a child. And newsflash here, a lot of pro boards sometimes think there should be restrictions on it too.

So not all pro boards are like want full fledged abortion.

So like in, in how it actually plays out is pro -aborts and pro -lifers are both pro choice.

Like they're both dictating when and where and how you can kill a child. The debate could be where on that scale you want to slide this thing.

Right. But there's actually some overlap. There really is. There, there would be some pro, pro, pro choicers who would be okay with, you know, not killing a child over 20 weeks.

Cause they would say, Hey, look, like, like, you know, if you're pregnant at that time and make a decision, whether you kill a child or not.

And that's in accordance with pro -life legislation that's been passed.

So there is an overlap there and it's all pro -choice. So God says, thou shall not murder.

It's really that simple. And that's how we need to treat it. Are these children really human beings?

And if so, we have to treat them like that. That's it. It's really that simple.

And, and that's our responsibility. And, you know, the, the politicians have been pushing this.

And I used to think that the politicians were the, were kind of the slimy ones, you know, and they are, but ultimately they're giving us what we want.

They, they will, they want to get reelected. They, they will give us what we demand of them.

It's like, I used to, I used to feel bad that like the people who'd go to like, you know, Joel Osteen's church or whatever, apostate preacher.

I used to feel bad for that congregation. Like, look, they're being duped. No, they wanted that.

That's what they want. They sought it out. And he is just their judgment on their own desires.

Right. And the same thing happens with politicians. So they're giving us what we want.

It's easy to say, Oh, these politicians aren't doing the right thing. Well, you know what? It's our fault.

It's, it's our, it's our fault because we desired that as a church, we demanded that them to do that as a church.

And they gave us what we demanded. And so this whole thing starts with the house of God.

We need repentance with us first. And then just maybe

God would save us. And I mean, the mercies of God are unspeakable and unknowable.

And I, you know, sometimes I get all pessimistic of everything and I would just, God's way more merciful than I could ever imagine this.

We just repent of this compromise. I mean, who's to say

God wouldn't restore us? He doesn't have to. He certainly doesn't have to, but so, so, so the strategy needs to be just stand on God's word.

God doesn't have exceptions on, on don't kill children. Like children of rape, of rape and incest are created in the image of God too.

And we have no right to kill them. They didn't do anything wrong. They don't deserve death.

Children who are disabled are created in the image of God too. Life of the mother stuff,

I'm just, you take it where you want, but there's life of the mother stuff. That's, that's another big exception that's has been rampant in the pro -life community.

Luckily, some of these exceptions are getting backed down on because of abolition.

But life of the mother is a big one too. Like, okay, like what if, what, what if the mother's life's in jeopardy?

And well, yeah, triage laws exist already.

You know, like if you have a doctor and you only have so many medical supplies or resources and you've got two patients, you have to make medical decisions about who's getting the hospital bed.

If you only have one hospital bed and you got five patients, you do the best you can to save everybody.

Right? If you're limited by resources, you just do the best you can. And that's the same thing with the life of the mother.

You just do the best you can. And the reality with life of the mother exceptions is if we can keep that child in the womb longer and longer and longer, they have a better and better chance of survival.

There's, there's been a number of children, I think, who have been born below 22 weeks,

I think, and are alive today. And most of the complications in life of the mother situations don't happen until later in pregnancy.

So keep that child in the womb as long as you can. Keep the woman in the hospital if you have to monitor her, get monitor 24 seven if you have to, you know, and, and, and, and then if you have to have an emergency

C -section or whatever, because the mother's dying, you can try to save that child and the mother at the same time.

And, and even, I even think it should go further than that.

I don't know if you can put this into law, but look, as mothers and fathers,

I mean, we're supposed to sacrifice for our children, aren't like, like God gave us these children to raise.

And, you know, I hope God never puts me in this position, but if it's between me and my child, you know, what's the, what's the answer?

I'm the father, you know, and, and I would never want to sacrifice my own child for my own life.

And, and that's, that's a tough, that's a tough one. But, you know, I mean, imagine you were like in a train tunnel with your two -year -old and the trains come in and you have to run really fast to get out of the train tunnel.

And you realize the only way to make it out alive is to ditch your child and run faster. What do you do?

No, you hang onto that child and you run as fast as you can. And maybe there's a one in a million chance that you make it out alive.

Well, you take that one in a million chance, you know? And so like, if you have an illness and you're, you're pregnant and there's a life of the mother issue, do you ditch that child in the train tunnel or not?

You just fight it out, fight, fight, fight. And it's not like God doesn't make miracles, right?

That's right. So, so that, those are, those are two exceptions. You know, we can, we can keep going, but there's, there should be no exceptions because God doesn't accept those.

God doesn't allow us to have those exceptions. Right. I want to go back to one point that you made and I think that will transition us very well into the next question.

So let's say many Christians were like me and we know, and we believe that abortion is wrong.

Abortion is murder. So we're going to, we're going to reach out and hang on and claim the only label that we've heard, the only label that's taught to us.

And that is that pro -life label. And so that's what we're taught. That's what we hear.

And that's what we hang on to is because that's all we've been taught. So there we are in that position.

Now, that's why I think what you said was so informative and educational for us. We dove into the other side of being pro -life and you talked about how being pro -life has a side of pro -choice in it.

And so we need to open our eyes to the reality that pro -life is not really as pro -life anti -abortion as we maybe once thought.

And I hope this will open up eyes and be very educational for folks. And so that transitions me to the next question

I have for you, because we've used the term, which was new to me in this realm at some point.

So I'm going to make the assumption that you were like many of us at one point, because you were against abortion, you were pro -life, but you've made a transition to what we're calling an abolitionist.

So is that true? And how did you make that transition? And what is an abolitionist?

That's a good question. I think, well, there's a whole backstory about how I even realized that there was a genocide going on.

And that's a crazy story in its own right. Long story short, I was in Liberia during the

Ebola crisis, and we were talking to former warlords and child soldiers who would commit child sacrifices, zero to three years old.

They'd sacrifice these children to demons. It's the heart of witchcraft, West Africa. And God redeemed them, saved them, a number of them.

They're doing great work of rehabilitating child soldiers. But it really opened my eyes to the, you know, look, the demons that ancient

Israel, that they're sacrificing these children to, you know, on the statues of Baal are still around.

They're not in the pit of hell yet. They're still here. And these children are still being sacrificed to them.

And they were in West Africa, and they are here. And that's a tough one.

So I came back from that trip, you know, I don't want to go into that side story, but I came back from that trip thinking, wow, we're in trouble here.

Like, this is really, really serious. And God hates this.

And this is child sacrifice. And God hears every drop of spilt blood of these children who are being killed here in America, and there will be justice for them.

And every nation that has killed its own child has been utterly destroyed.

And why are we any different? And so I started looking around like in West Africa, that country hasn't had running water or electricity in 20 years.

And one of the child soldiers said, look, we killed a lot of children, and God killed one third of our population and destroyed our nation.

But we don't kill children anymore. Praise God. And the spirit,

God's spirit was like, wow, what am I doing here? Like, God brought me here to hear that.

Because we're going to be destroyed. Like, what am I doing? This is our mission field.

We're the ones in trouble. And so what did I do? I went to start going to a clinic.

And, you know, and I just didn't know what to do. But you know, saying, hey,

I felt I was still thinking that women were victims in all of this.

And, you know, that's a narrative that the pro -life industry has pushed, which is a false narrative that women are victims.

And I saw that firsthand, where I would say, what do you need? Do you need money? Do you need a place to stay?

Do you need a job? Do you need support? Do you need clothes? Like, you name it, like literal blank check.

And I saw 850 babies dead. You know, we can adopt your baby, we can do all this.

No, I'm here to kill my child. You hear that enough times, start to realize, you know what, it's not about money.

It's not about resources. It's that people were intent to murder. And I saw that firsthand.

And so it took me like a year to come to that conclusion. And then you realize it's a gospel issue.

It's a hard issue. It's not a material issue. And so you preach the gospel when you're at the clinic.

Like, look, you got murder on your heart. You're gonna be held accountable for this.

I know a God who forgives murderers. So repent of that. And God will restore you.

Like it's a simple message, but it's a great one. And that's what we need to be preaching at the clinics.

But I started to hear the abolitionist movement of what was happening in Oklahoma with abolished human abortion around maybe 2016, 2017.

And they had a bill, the first bill to abolish abortion in the nation was

SB, I think it's SB 1118 in 2016, I think in Oklahoma.

I was following that. My wife's family was from Oklahoma, from Norman. So we'd be going back there every once in a while.

And that was the epicenter of this abolitionist movement. And so I was like, wow,

I'm gonna be in this town. They're in this town. I gotta meet them and see what's going on.

And so I met with Russ, I met with a guy named Toby, and just kind of broke everything down for me.

And it was the first time I heard that. Fast forward a year from there, there was the first abolition bill in Texas.

I think that was 948. They had a rally there. They had a conference, a three day conference where they had a lot of speakers who were breaking all of this down.

And I remember just hearing all of this for the first time. I had a yellow notepad that was just full of notes.

I just could not believe it. I was just taking notes. And I was like, it's so simple.

How come I didn't see this? Shame on me. But someone was just saying it so plainly and so clearly.

And the scales came off my eyes. And that was off the back of what I had been seeing at the clinic of women really aren't victims, they're the perpetrator, the child's the victim.

And that was it. I heard all that.

And I said, I came back, I said, I got to reorient my life. Like apart from taking care of my family and the children

God gave me, I need to, this has got to be my life mission until this is abolished.

Because it's that great of a sin. And it is a gospel issue.

It really is. So that was how

I first got involved. And then you're always, always learning, always hearing more things.

And then you just start putting your hand to the plow. There's no one telling you what to do.

It's just the body of Christ. What talents do you have?

What talents did God give you? And how does that apply to genocide in our own town?

So you might be good at art or music or graphic design or speaking or writing or organizing or whatever.

That's all the body of Christ. But many people, I came back and I remember putting my hand to the plow.

Many people would say things like, I'm God glad to really put this on your heart. I hope you do well.

It's like, guys, do you not realize that God's going to destroy all of us for this?

Like literally the priest and the Levite talking to the Samaritan, like, you know what? I'm really glad God put taking care of that guy on your heart.

I hope it works out well for you as they cross the side of the road. And I'm not saying everyone's got to be the same.

I'm not saying we all got to fight the battle the same. But we just got to take initiative and find out how we can apply the gifts that God's given us, whatever that may be, whatever resources we have and apply that.

And just all I'm asking is that people just rightly divide the world that we live in.

You know, I'm not, we have to work. We have to take care of our family. We need some time to rest and refit.

You know, we need all this stuff, but everything we do, let's do it in honest analysis of how to weigh this in the world that we are in a genocide.

And if we do that, God's going to open doors for us. He really will.

And so we start putting our hand to the plow here. We start really trying to shift the culture.

So going to churches, right? That's really the main, look, judgment and repentance both start at the house of God.

And so I'm not going to, although I could try to go talk to some pro board about it, they need just the raw gospel, right?

And the church needs to be shaken out of sin, two specific types of sin, apathy and compromise.

And so I remember going to this church. I was going to this church.

There was 4 ,000 people who went to this church every single Sunday. And less than a mile from there was the biggest killing center in Raleigh.

And many people, hundreds, maybe thousands of people drove by this street to go to church, passing the clinic, going to church on Sunday.

And there was one guy who would go to the clinic from that 4 ,000 people.

And look, I mean, I get it. I'm not saying that everyone has to be at a clinic.

I'm not, I'm really not. I'm just saying, if we're really looking objectively, that's an indictment on the church.

And that's just an example. It's really all of Christianity.

And it's easy to say sin and generalities, but when you say sin in particular particularities, it's hard.

That's hard. I wish I had the quote from Martin Luther exactly, but paraphrasing, if you're valiant on the entire battlefield, except for that point where the devil is pushing his advance the hardest, we've abrogated our duty.

And so, I really think the message needs to go to Christians.

The apathetic part is we just need to treat this seriously. We have an obligation to our brother.

It's not okay to say, I didn't have an abortion and I'm good. We actually have an obligation to our preborn who are being slaughtered.

So that's the apathetic side. And then the sin of compromise is how we fight it.

If we're fighting it using compromise methods, like we're saying, incrementalism, pushing legislation of when and where and how you can kill a child, saying that there are certain exceptions in rape or incest, that's the sin of compromise.

And a lot of people will say, I don't believe in any exceptions, but then they don't live their life that way.

For example, the Texas heartbeat bill, a lot of the people who support that Texas heartbeat bill would say,

I don't believe in exceptions, but yet you're supporting a bill that has exceptions in it.

So there's a disconnect between what we say we believe in what we actually do.

And so that's what I'm saying. They're compromised. A lot of people are not compromised in what they think they believe, but in their actions, they are.

And that goes that compromise goes into, it's really moral relativism.

It's an anti -biblical worldview. I can give you an example of this. Okay. Let's say you had a 15 week bill or a 10 week bill.

And we say in North Carolina, is that a good bill or not? Right now, you can kill children up to 20 weeks or for example, maybe let's say a 25 week bill in North Carolina, you can't kill children up to 20 weeks.

But if someone put forth a bill up to 25 weeks, people would say that's a wicked bill because it's going the wrong way.

But you have that same piece of legislation and you go to a place like New York where you can kill later than that or whatever.

They would say that's a good bill because it's going the right way. So you can have the same piece of legislation depending upon where it is.

A lot of pro -lifers would say this bill is good or this bill is bad. That's morally relativistic.

What's right or wrong does not depend on where you're at. It depends on what God says.

That's right. And so these heartbeat bills are a product of that.

Where we're saying, look, a heartbeat bill in Texas is good because it moves the needle down.

But the heartbeat bills like what, like 10, 15 or 18 weeks, if they had a bill that was down to 10 weeks, then that would be better.

But that's relative. God says don't kill children. And you're still killing children.

No matter where the timeline is, you're still killing. Exactly. And it's also child sacrifice because the people in Texas are saying, and I'm not picking on Texas, we're worse.

We're worse. But like in the Texas heartbeat bill, we're shaking hands with the devil and we're making a deal with him.

And we're saying, devil, guess what? Let's make a deal. You take the ones without heartbeats in exchange for the ones with heartbeats.

We'll save the ones with heartbeats. And in turn, we'll give up the ones without heartbeats. And the devil says, deal, let's do it.

And we just sacrificed the children without heartbeats in exchange for the ones with them.

We cannot fight child sacrifice with child sacrifice. We can't fight moral relativism with moral relativism.

The only way to do it is to stand on the solid, firm foundation of God's law that says, we shall not kill children.

And don't back down from that one inch. And we need to hear that. We need to hear that.

We're pro -life. I'm pro -life. But have I ever heard someone say to me, I'm exchanging those with a heartbeat for those without a heartbeat.

And there are children still being killed. I'm just making an exchange. We need to hear that and let that open up our eyes.

We're using our children as chess pieces. We really are. And some of them we say, oh, they're pawns.

We can sacrifice them for a more valuable piece. And we're not allowed to do that.

We're not allowed to do that. And people will very pragmatically say, Dave, you're not going to get anything accomplished that way.

You're not going to save any babies that way. I differ with, I don't believe them in that. But you know what? So be it.

God's in control and God's sovereign. Do we really believe that or not? Right.

He is. So let's just have the faith that if we do what God says, he'll bless this nation.

I want to hold on to that to the very end, because I wanted to make a comment. And you just, you said what

I wanted to bring up. And I hope that it'll be interesting to you. So I do want to get to what you're doing specifically,

David. But before we get to what you're doing, to wrap up this part of the conversation, I know we're going on pretty late here.

But to wrap up this conversation, you talked about opening up doors or God opening doors, going to the church, the people of the church, and people using their gifts.

That's where I want to go for the last part of this. So you're a North Carolinian. I'm a North Carolinian.

We are working in North Carolina. We're working in our own backyard in our community. So if somebody is listening to this and it's opening up their eyes, it's opening up their heart, their conscience is being spoken to, what can

I do in North Carolina? So what I want you to speak to as I listen to that podcast with Free the

State, I heard you guys talk about abolish abortion in North Carolina. I've heard you talk about HB 158.

It's so interesting that I listened to that podcast because as God has given me the opportunity to speak to folks in the ministry that I'm doing,

I will continue to remind everybody that I talk to, there is a house built in North Carolina, HB 158, that is sitting in committee and God is already working and there's something there in place.

And so I'm just sharing with folks with what God is doing, what he's already done, and we don't have to start from scratch.

God is working. And then I listen to you guys in the interview and I'm like, I'm getting ready to talk to the guy who helped form and introduce and get that bill going that I've been talking about all this time.

So that was very exciting for me. So if you'll tell folks about abolish abortion in North Carolina, HB 158, what you guys have been doing.

Yeah, we formed an organization,

Abolish Abortion in North Carolina, and I was actually really opposed to forming that organization because I want it to be organic.

It's through the church, through the body of believers. We don't need these para -church organizations, but we almost need it because the church is not doing what it should and has given that role up.

And so I was kind of opposed to that, but I also kind of felt a need to to help drive the narrative.

This narrative is so apt to being corrupted. Like right now, we're seeing some people who are saying,

I'm a pro -life abolitionist. Now, I'm opposed to that because it's so critical for us to drive the distinction between compromise and no compromise that we need to continually drive that narrative.

I guess intrinsically, yeah, I'm a pro -life abolitionist, right? But that undermines the wedge that we're driving between compromise and no compromise because we're trying to shift the culture.

We're trying to change the culture. And that goes back to HB 158.

The focus has always been the church and repentance of God's people. It always has been and always will be.

That's the foundation of what we're trying to do. And I found through what was happening in Oklahoma, there was a guy named

Dan Fisher who was running for governor as an abolitionist governor. And through that campaign, thousands of people were exposed to abolition and the movement started to explode.

Not only for that, a lot of reasons, but he was a major catalyst for that. And we started to see running a bill is the right thing to do and the government needs to do the right thing, but it's also a catalyst for cultural change.

It's like you hear the story of someone sitting, has a broken down car on the side of the road and he just sits in that car, no one helps him.

But if he gets out and starts pushing that car to get out of the road, five, 10 people will jump out of their car and help him push his car out of the road.

You know, so we have to like start some traction in that, that, that like gathers more and more and more momentum.

And look, I called hundreds of churches about abolition.

We're doing this wrong. We got to stop being apathetic. We got to stop compromising. Just the door slammed, slammed in my face, literally punching up like it was like up against a brick wall.

Now we run a bill, we call them about the bill and they want to hear it, right? So it's, it's, it's a mechanism for the same story, but in a different way.

And for some reason, it's a little bit more palatable. And it's also is more tangible, certainly because the government needs to be doing this.

God gave the government to bear the sword and that's what they need to do to establish justice.

But it's a tangible thing, but it's also, you know, a way to, to, to a catalyst for cultural change.

And so we spent years looking for someone who is willing to do, uh, uh, uh, uh, abolition bill.

We found a guy who wanted to do a personhood amendment. Now I really respect personhood law.

Um, and, and, and sometimes it's a level of semantics and I don't really care about that, but abolition bill needs to have five critical components.

Um, it needs to be at conception, needs to be without exceptions. It needs to criminalize abortion as murder.

It needs to defy Roe and it needs to, um, repeal all laws which allow for abortion, which is essentially pro -life laws because they dictate when and where and how you can kill a child.

And so, so criminalization is a critical aspect to all of this because if we proclaim that, that someone is a human being, but then don't act like it or don't have the meat to that, it's, it's just nice words.

We got to put the rubber to the road. And in fact, in a way, it actually might be more damning on us.

There's, Jesus talks about a parable about, um, a parable about, you know, a farmer,

I mean, a farmhand, you know, who, someone who doesn't know the father's will and doesn't do the father's will deserves a light beating that someone who does know the father's will and doesn't carry it out deserves a severe beating.

So if we don't have criminalization, we, but we do have, you know, declaring people, human beings from conception, but there's no criminalization.

We are proclaiming to the world. Yes, we do indeed know that this is a human life that needs to be protected, that is created in the image of God.

There's no exceptions to this. And then we don't act like it.

We are proclaiming to the world. We do know the father's will, but then we don't do it.

And that according to Jesus, our King deserves a severe beating.

And that's where we're at. So criminalization is critical to this. Um, and so you got to lay the foundations, you know, and then we, we need to criminalize it and then we need to defy

Roe. So the Supreme Court's not God. Jesus is

God. You know, who do we serve? The Supreme Court says we need to kill children.

God says we can't, what are we going to do? You know, we're lucky enough that the constitution has the right to life in it.

You know, ironically, the 14th amendment, which they somehow find the right to privacy in literally says you cannot deprive life without due process.

You know what I mean? Like has that baby had due process yet? No, not deprive life.

So the constitution's on our side. That's a rogue court. They're the illegal ones.

And so we need to defy them. But you know what? Even if the Supreme Court had the legal authority to do that, shouldn't we still define them anyways?

Because right. So, so, so we've also got this sin of idolatry of the

Supreme Court rampant in the church. You know, this is the same court that said black people were not human beings in the

Dred Scott case, which by the way, was never overturned. We had a constitutional amendment against it, but Dred Scott was defied by several states and jurisdictions, rightly so.

And we need to defy the Supreme Court too. So there's historical precedent of it. I mean, dang, we do it for marijuana.

We do it for a plant, which is an actual law, not just a court opinion, but we won't do it for our children.

So, so yeah, so we, so we got HB 158. A guy named Larry Pittman was a pastor, was essentially going to do a personhood bill.

We said, we need to have criminalization. We got criminalization in there. It didn't have defy row.

We said, we got it defy row. He, he made provisions to put that in there.

And we were off to the races and all these pro -lifers, pro -life politicians didn't want to touch this at all.

And I mean, let me tell you that's eye opening. I knew that was likely to happen, but when you actually see it, it's, it's it really brings it home that there's wickedness going on and we really do need repentance.

You know, all these politicians campaigning on pro -life, on pro -life, on pro -life, and we actually have

North Carolina's first ever bill that treats abortion as murder and stands on God's word.

It is a righteous piece of legislation and it gets killed in committee and then the next committee and then the next committee.

And we're trying to do all these efforts to get it out of committee and get it for a vote.

And it got killed by Republicans. And so Larry Pittman's great, but he told his constituents that he wasn't going to run again.

He said, he's going to run five terms. He said at the beginning, this was his fifth term. He's not running again.

And who's going to be the next champion? We, we looked and I had high hopes for my own

Senator, a guy named Jim Burden. He's an elder at a local Baptist church. I was like, he's going to be our guy.

I go to talk to him about abolition and how we got to run an abolition bill. And he wants no part of it.

He won't do it. His answer, by the way, was to give hormonal birth control to underage women all across the state.

He says that's going to reduce abortion by one third. So first, you know,

I can't figure out if he's giving it for free or not. If it's free, it's socialism. But regardless, it's promoting promiscuity amongst our youth across the state.

And he's an elder at a local church. And, and it does nothing to establish justice for those intent on being murdered.

And hormonal birth control causes abortions. So it's just a wicked bill all around.

And he stands on it. He's proud that he got all the

Democrats who love abortion to vote for that bill. So just think about that, right?

People who love killing children love his bill. And that was the day

I was like, you know what, we're up at the Capitol every week trying to find a champion. Can't find anybody.

And you know what, I don't, I don't even believe it can be changed from within. So that means we got to primary somebody and started looking for people.

And I just got more and more and more convicted that there was no one there, but it has to be done.

Like I've dedicated my life to this cause and this is the need. And so I don't know what's going to happen, but if that's the need, do you want me to do this

Scott? And I was really slow to come to this conclusion. I really did not want to go down this road because I knew what it was going to cost in time and money and exposure and you know, all kinds of things.

And, but it was confirmed in just a number, a number of ways that was just undeniable to me that to the point where I was believed

I would be in sin if I did not do this. And so I decided to run for Senate.

I chose Senate for a number of reasons. One, those conversations with Jim Bergen, you know, was like, he's got to go.

But then also there's only 50 senators in North Carolina. So we only need 25 votes and there's 120 house reps.

So you need 60 votes. So that's a big spread right there.

And also what we were finding with HB 158, which was a house bill, is they were all giving each other cover.

There's 120 house members and they would all blame each other. They would say, no, it's this guy, it's this guy, it's this guy.

And I go around the circle and they're all like, well, who's responsible here? Well, if there's only 25 who could be responsible, it's a lot easier to pin the villain down who might kill a bill and put pressure on them.

So lots of reasons that I wanted to run for Senate over House. It was also two counties.

I'm a stakeholder in both counties. I own land in Lee County and I live in Harnett. It's also a total information campaign too, because it's all, again, it's all about the culture.

And so that gives us a bigger footprint, a bigger footprint to print the campaign on, which means a bigger footprint to shift the culture.

More people are being exposed to these issues. And so although it was a bigger battle, which means it's a more difficult one to fight just logistically,

I think the fruit of all of that was much more. And so we are in the heat of it now.

We need help. We need help. Prayer, for one.

We need physical laborers. We're going out and knocking on people's doors, on voters' doors, and just laying it out.

So we need help with that. Obviously, we need money and resources. We're going after the devil's crown jewel of child sacrifice.

He's not going to give it up easily. And I'm fully aware of that. And we hadn't even got into vaccines and how aborted fetal cells are using vaccines.

And the fact that Pfizer's got a $1 billion vaccine plan that does aborted fetal cell research in the heart of District 12, where I'm running, like,

I'm telling you, we're going right for the jugular of what the devil loves the most because it fuels the demonic realm of child sacrifice.

And so we need help in that. And it's so important to connect all the noise we were making with HB 158 with the election cycle for these politicians.

Because that's all they care about, is about getting reelected. And so we go up to the Capitol. We have a rally for HB 158.

There's hundreds of people there. We're writing letters. We're meeting these legislators. There's emails and phone calls and all this stuff.

And it didn't move the needle one bit on HB 158. Not one bit.

But do you know why? We made a bunch of noise. And they're looking around saying,

Hey, did I I didn't get hit. Did you get hit? They're just they might they're shooting bikes. And so if we can, if there can be an abolitionist that gets elected, and knocks off an incumbent, because they did not stand on the word of God, and they did not deliver justice for these children.

And we hang that in the state house and say, this is the reason

Jim Bergen isn't here anymore, because he didn't stand on the word of God. Politicians will equate all that noise we're making with their survival.

And now all that noise means something. So we have to prove we're not it's not blanks.

We have to prove this is the real deal. We have to prove that this noise, if they ignore that leads to real world consequences for them.

And that's why this is so critical. For me, it's for the whole it's it's it's

I see it's so critical. It doesn't have to be me, by the way, it just has to be abolitionist.

And and you know what, it's very doable. And you know, the other thing is to I love telling the story.

I used to work for a guy who told this story. And it's a story of Roger Bannister, who in the 50s was the first guy to break the four minute mile.

And people told him, it's impossible. You can't do it, your heart's going to explode.

Literally, doctors are saying, you're going to die. Don't do this. Well, he did it.

And the next year, six or seven people did it. They all could have done it before he did.

But they believed they could. And so not only are we going to connect the noise with consequences if if abolitionists gets elected, but people will believe that if we stand on God's word and get elected, we can get elected.

And there might be five or six other candidates in the next election cycle who win.

And now we literally are taking back the state at that point. And that excites me.

It fires me up. It's very doable. I'm sick of just having the pessimistic black pill that, you know, they can't they control everything.

There's nothing we can do. It's not like God didn't use 300.

Right. It would get in. It's it's not like God didn't use Jonathan and his and his armor bearer.

It's not like God didn't just use the angel of death with nobody.

Right. You know, I mean, like God will do it. So so I'm sick of saying we can't do it.

And you know what? Even if we can't, we have the obligation to do it anyways. That's right.

So there's there's the fight is now that this election hinges on May 17th, which is the primary.

It's a sprint to May 17th. The outcome of that May 17th primary is likely the outcome of the entire election, because we live in Harnett and Lee County.

I don't want to take for granted that people are going to write, you know, vote for a

Republican regardless of the name. But that's probably what's going to happen. We would still have to campaign and fight in November.

But realistically, this will be decided on May 17th.

And we're not holding back. We're not holding back. We're swinging for the fences and with everything we got, because that's the right thing to do.

Amen. As a Christian. It should excite you what

God is doing and what God is doing through David and what

David is saying. It should excite us as Christians. We need to open our eyes to the fact that we deserve a sovereign

God. And he's in control and he's working. And open our eyes to the fact to what he's doing.

And we can see it and we can join it. So with that being said, if we're not in, let's see,

David Bubold is running for the state senate, North Carolina state senate in District 12.

And so if you're in District 12, we know what, you know what we want you to do.

But if you're like me and you're not in District 12, David, if you'll tell us, what can we do as far as the abolitionist movement working with Abolish Abortion North Carolina?

And what can we do outside your district to help you in your campaign? Yeah. Well, right off the bat, prayer is super important.

I need it. You know, keep me away from temptations and distractions.

And I mean, the devil is going to try to devour us, but you know what? We've got a powerful, we got way more powerful

God. So prayer is really important intercession in that level. As far as in the physical here, we need people to help go knock on doors.

Basically every Saturday, we're going to be knocking on doors. And so if you're within driving distance and you have a free

Saturday, contact us and we can do that. It's just, it's not hard.

It's just literally putting door hangers on people's doors. You know, so it's not scary. It's not hard.

It's just, it's just putting literature on people's doors and steps essentially. But that's, that's effective.

We're going to be looking at making calls. Donations, monetary funds is important too.

So that's all for the campaign. But with all of that,

I don't want people to lose sight that the whole purpose of this campaign is to shift the culture of the house of God towards repentance for apathy and compromise.

And so use this campaign, if need be, as a tool, as a catalyst to talk to other

Christians, to say, this is what's going on in District 12, and tell the story of pro -life versus abolition, which goes all the way back.

We didn't even get into the historic roots of abolition versus the anti -slavery movements, because there was a whole anti -slavery movements that was making compromises and they were doing everything but abolishing slavery.

They were Christians, church -going, Bible -believing Christians who would say things like, you can't work them more than 18 hours a day, and you can't chain them up too hard.

You can't whip them too hard. You have to give them Bibles and you have to feed them right. And like, well, they weren't abolishing it.

And so the abolitionist's greatest enemy, greatest opponent was not the slavers.

It was the anti -slavery societies. And that's really our heritage and why we call ourselves abolitionists.

And the anti -slavery societies is the pro -life movement. It's the same compromise.

Look, nothing is new under the sun. This battle has been fought already many times by God.

So we think that this struggle is unique to us, and it is to us, but it's not to God. And so use this campaign to shift the hearts and minds of God's people to repentance of compromise and of apathy towards our pre -born neighbors.

And if we do that, everything else flows downhill from then, because now we're not like the people in Joel Osteen's church, tickling our ears.

We start demanding a different preacher, different action. And now the legislature will start doing what we want if we demand that they do and really mean it.

And if they don't, they got to get going. So that's it.

Prayer, helping us doorknock, have monetary funds if you have them, but most importantly, use this as a mechanism to affect cultural change.

Absolutely. And I would just add too, if we're outside, if you're like me and you're outside District 12,

David still needs our support. And that's through prayer and all the things that David mentions. But also in my mind,

I'm thinking that we can support David in a different way as well. We have a representative in North Carolina House and Senate.

We have our own. And if you have a Senator, a

House member that claims to be pro -life, if they run pro -life, they need to hear this information as well.

We need to, as cities, as counties to come together, to reach out to our own

House members and Senators and share with them this information. We need to pray for them.

And David, I think, could use the support of fellow

Senators and fellow House members to come alongside him. And we want to reach out and be those church members that you were talking about and say, we want a different preacher.

It can be you, but change your platform. You're accountable.

Like Wayne said in the interview, you can even tell them, you and I both are accountable to God.

You're not only accountable to your constituents, you're accountable to God. And so if you're going to claim to walk that life with Christ and be obedient to him, then let that carry over into your legislation and to your work there in Raleigh.

And so reach out to your Senators and House members so that they can be a support to David and what he's doing.

Yeah, exactly right. Some of these people who are in office could easily say, wow, you're right.

I'm an abolitionist. I repent of pro -life compromise. I'm an abolitionist. It's happened multiple times before in the

House and in other state legislators. Larry Pitman, he's a man of God.

We talked to him about this stuff. He got it. He got a right bill.

So yes, um, maybe they can, they'll, they will be a champion, you know, absolutely.

And so, but, but the word of caution with politicians are, they're probably going to tell you anything. So you have to look at what they do.

So great. They tell you something great. Okay. Let's see if they introduce an abolition bill.

That's the proof, proof's in the pudding right there. Right. And is, is the, um, the effort that, um,

Larry Pitman, because you told us about how the, the HB 158 is sitting in committee, it's not going anywhere.

So his strategy next was to, um, do the, uh, the discharge petition.

Is that right? Yeah. When you were using basically bills, uh, they put them in committees to die in committees so that they don't go to the house floor for a vote.

They're terrified of that because they don't want to vote for, they don't want to vote for abolition, but they don't want to be shown to not vote for abolition because it might hurt them.

So they don't want to be exposed. And so in order to keep the light off of all of that, they try to kill these bills in committees where they never get a vote.

And so they weren't letting it out of committee. So Pitman had a tool called a discharge petition, which was literally a petition that we would go around and talk to house reps.

Um, do you want to hear this on the floor or not? Yes or no. And if we got a majority, then it would be forced out of committee and they would have to vote on it.

But what we wanted from the vote was to expose who was for abolition and who wasn't because politicians will tell you anything.

We have to force the vote to see where they really are at. But this discharge petition was doing exactly that.

It was exposing whether they wanted to hear it on the floor to a vote, which was just as good.

And so they were terrified of this discharge petition. So what they did was they moved it to a different committee, which nullified that discharge petition.

And there are some stipulations we had to wait like 15 or 20 days before we could file a new one.

And then we, we, we had to follow the, the, whatever the internal rules were.

We filed a new discharge petition that same day. They moved it to a third committee, which nullified that we had to wait another 15 or 20 days.

And by that time, essentially it was too late. So, so they had, they were able to play these little games to keep people from going on record because they all want to campaign that I'm for the babies and they didn't want this to be used against them because, but they don't want to stand on righteousness.

So that's what happened with HB 158. But, hey, look, if I get in there, we're going to have an abolition bill and I'm going to be exposing who votes for it and who doesn't.

And look, every pro -life bill that happens, there's going to be amendments filed to make it an abolition bill.

Every, I might just file an amendment on every single bill that, that puts abolition bill on it.

It could be with something totally unrelated. I might just amend it, put an abolition bill on it. We're going to fight from every single angle.

We're not going to let them get around this. And that's what we need to do. We need politicians to, to get off the fence.

They're not on the fence, but, but expose whether they're for us or against us because there's no middle ground with Christ.

There's not. We're for him or against him. That's right. That's right.

And, and just like we were talking about before, just because in our mind, it may not work, we still stand on the word of God.

That's right. And so the same thing is true in this circumstance. Just because a house bill was put in committee, people tried to kill it.

We're on the winning team. We are going to win. I mean, there's no reason to get discouraged.

So let this excitement be continued because we can, we can live with the joy of Christ because we're, we're in his kingdom and his kingdom shall never end.

It's a never ending kingdom and it's going to continue to grow. So we're on the winning side. We're going to win.

And so we're going to keep pushing and we're going to support you. I am, and I'm calling everybody to support you and to, and to call their senators and house members to, to this call to action and to support you as well as they're in office.

One last thing that I wanted to bring up. You mentioned it briefly without me even having to say it.

I know with the Abolish Abortion North Carolina and with the Free the States folks, I know that there's this, this big push and there's this, this call to proclaim repentance to the church in this area.

But, but you've already said it. You said we need to have faith in Jesus Christ as well.

And, and every time I heard you guys talk about repentance, um, I thought about the, the missing part of that.

There's the gospel is, is two sides of the same coin, repentance and faith.

And so we, we need to call the church to repentance about their advocacy, about their compromise.

But we also call the church, just like you do with the gospel back to faith in Jesus Christ.

Yeah. And so, um, there's the call to repentance. There's the call to faith of your sin turned from your sin, but your faith and trust in Jesus Christ, um, call out to God that you may be born again, come into his kingdom and join us as a brother and sister in Christ.

And then on the same token with this apathy and with this compromise, repent of that and turn to Jesus Christ and trust in him that he is going to move and he is going to save souls and he's going to save babies.

Yep. Yeah. That message is so freeing.

It is. There's nothing sweeter than that. And look, the pressure's off.

All we gotta do is just be faithful. Like, like you were saying, like we don't have to have all this pressure of like, is this bill going to work or not going to work?

Or is he going to save children or not or whatever? We just got to do what God says. Results are up to him. We run as hard as humanly possible to run the race and it's freeing and it's comforting.

And, um, repentance is a beautiful thing. Um, it really is.

It's not a dirty word. It's a, it's a great thing. And I think anyone who's actually been to the depths and known what they're capable of evil wise and been forgiven, like knows that repentance is an incredible gift from God.

And as Christians, we should not be shying away from that. Um, and you know, the victimhood of the false victimhood of women is also a denial of the gospel because a lot of the pro -life community doesn't want to offend people who've killed a child before.

Um, and so let's, Hey, let's not call it murder or let's say you murdered a child or any of that, but that's really a denial of God's forgiveness.

And, and we're not going to get full restoration until we fully own our sin.

You know, we're not going to be fully restored if we're continually saying, well, I wasn't really the perpetrator.

There was all these outside factors that made me do it. You know, there's all these excuses and that's not the path to real restoration.

And, and, and so we need to call it what it is unashamedly. But the thing is,

I know God who restores, that's the gospel. So we call sin, sin, and we repent and we get restored and God brings fruit and it's all for his glory.

Well, that's all that needs to be said. It's all for his glory. David, thank you so much for joining me.

Thank you for letting me talk with you and giving us information, educating us.

And I hope that through this video and through your, your other efforts, people will hear the message and people will support you and come to this message of living a life of glorifying

God and living that in all aspects of their life, all of Christ, for all of life.

So thank you for what you're doing. Thank you for joining me and being with me tonight.

And thank you guys for watching the video. Go to abolishabortionnc .com,

sign the petition, sign up for the newsletter, pray and ask the Lord how you can be involved.

David, what is your website? Buboltz4nc, that's my last name. B -U -B -O -L -T -Z -F -O -R -N -C, buboltz4nc .com.

We can sign up for information there. There's also really good links on that site.

We've tried to build this site to be more than just a political site.

Again, the whole foundation of this is we're trying to shift the culture. We've got as much resources and links.

We've made a series of videos to try to explain this stuff. We've got links to doctrinal lesser magistrates, to a

Freedom County project. We've got the gospels on there. So there's tons of resources.

I think it's a good spot, but you can get in contact with me there too. I'm happy to talk to anyone.

Fantastic. Yeah. He talked to me, so he's willing to talk to anybody.

He talked to me, you know, both ways. One last thing that I think

I can encourage folks with that they may be able to do, from the people that I've spoken with so far, they've heard the name

David Buboltz. Like him on social media, share his post, and like your own

Senator, House member on social media. If you're sharing his information, maybe they will see it, and they will be hearing, you're that citizen, you're that constituent, and this is what you want.

This is what you're looking for, because they know what David stands for, and they know that HB 158 exists.

So share this information on social media. Pray for David, and pray for this work.

So thank you, David. Thank you guys for watching. And with that being said, remember that Jesus is

King. Go live in that authority. Go speak with the authority of Christ, and continue to go out there and share the gospel of Christ.