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“Behind The Bible: A Primer in New Testament Textual Criticism”
AND ALSO
“The Church: Why Bother? The Nature, Purpose, and Functions of the Local Church”
Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.
Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us. Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and directed to have in view in conversation To make one another wiser and better.
It is our hope that this will be accomplished over the next hour. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions. Now here's our host Chris Arnton.
Good afternoon Cumberland County, Pennsylvania. And the rest of you humanity who are living on the planet earth. Listening via live streaming. This is Chris Arntz and your host of iron sharpens iron wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this twelfth day of April 2016.
I'm very happy to have returning as our guest today who I think he may be washing dishes right now judging from the sound effects. On the other side of the phone, but we have our friend Pastor Jeffrey D. Johnson joining us today again.
He is founder of free grace press and the pastor of grace Bible Church in Conway, Arkansas. We're going to be addressing two of his books today or the themes of two of his books the first Behind the Bible a primer in New Testament textual criticism and then for the second hour We are going to readdress or return to a book.
We already examined on a past interview. But there's a lot to say on this topic and the issue will be the church. Why bother the nature purpose and functions of the local church? And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron pastor Jeffrey D. Johnson.
Thank you, Chris. It's good to be back with you and.
Let me introduce you to my co-host today Reverend buzz Taylor. Good to have you back Jeff. Thanks buzz. It's great. Well before we go into the topics at hand, I never Take it for a try not to ever take it for granted that everybody is who is listening is not a new listener and therefore there may have been people who Did not hear your last interview who don't know anything about either Grace Bible Church in Conway, Arkansas or free grace press.
So let let's let our listeners know something more in detail about each of those. Let's start with your church grace Bible Church in Conway.
Yeah, thanks for asking about the church. The church has been Existence for 15 years my living room and another family's and the Lord has richly provided a say also done. We're going to be into the place debt-free, which I think nowadays just out of curiosity.
Where have you been meeting? With the last four years. We've been meeting on a college campus. There's a beautiful Baptist Campus and they've been really in bingo halls. We have met in a noble home. We've kind of traveled around but the Lord's blessed us.
Well, great. Well having met in bingo holes all those years.
Is the dominant makeup of your membership. 80 years old with blue hair.
Well, I was noticing a Something missing from that list he gave us because it seems the popular thing around here when you're starting at churches. You rent the Seventh-day Adventist building.
Yeah, yeah, we did. We've looked at that. We did look at this Day after this building, but that didn't work out. The bingo hall was a weird thing. I was going to the gym one day and I'm gonna walk in there.
And of course.
I.
Went in there and said hey, we're looking for a place to have worship to. Y 'all use this on Sunday. Feel free to come and use it. And I asked him what? We we met in there for a while. I do say it wasn't the ideal place.
It was it's like meeting in a big football stadium into time. We only had about 30. It's like putting 30 people into a Walmart without any show.
The conducive to worship, but you tried.
Well an ideal place to attract Roman Catholic converts. And to tell our listeners something more about the church itself is that a reformed Baptist Church is a confessional.
Except it's a 1689 London Baptist Confessional Church, we're reformed Baptist Church, we elder let the church has been just a lot of salt. Baptist churches are not the largest churches around but. Typically if you find one you found and tell us something about free grace press.
Free grace press started five years ago and my published my dissertation my doctoral dissertation, but. And as I was looking for publishers, yes wrote a dissertation and I think I'll do that and it's turned into a real I'm getting people.
It's really encouraging. See what Lord's doing. Yeah, I mean your.
Covers and the quality of the binding and everything is very professional top top notch. And you're getting endorsements by some of the most prominent Christian thinkers in America today like even John MacArthur and others.
So this is not I don't want to give our listeners the idea that this is some Guy with a staple gun in his basement putting together loose leaf loose leaf. Manuscripts or something. These are these are top-of-the-line books there.
Yeah, we're using the same printers. That all it is not. There has been a learning curve. But it's it's in fact, we hired our first one man to handle and one delegating out. Chris Press is growing and I look forward to it to continue to grow.
But we're the main thing we're doing is trying to stay Simple rate of growth and keep a little overhead down and so we can grow in a way that.
It's a stain. I'll give out our email address If anybody listening wants to join us on the air with a question of your own. It's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Please give us at least your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside of the USA and The first hour as I mentioned we are going to be addressing Jeff's book behind the Bible a primer in New Testament textual criticism.
I just want to read a couple of endorsements very powerful endorsements that have Been given for this book Richard Belcher who? Jeff mentioned earlier who is well known amongst especially Reformed Baptists in the United States or Calvinistic Baptists in general.
He says about this book one of the most difficult areas of Biblical study is the matter of textual criticism. Which is the analysis of the ancient manuscripts of the Bible in their original? Languages in order that we might be certain of the reading of the biblical text.
Obviously, this is not something which can be done with perfection. But Jeffrey Johnson has in this book titled behind the Bible show Not only how it is done, but also that it can when done properly arrive with a great certainty of the original biblical text in a day and age when many are producing various translations of the Bible and One when one might wonder about the trustworthiness of some of the translations.
Here is a book which covers many of the questions one might have Concerning how the work of textual criticism is to be done in a proper manner in order to find the original reading of the biblical text this book because of its clarity and helpfulness in the area of textual criticism is A must reading for all pastors and students of the Bible of our day and then also a mutual friend of ours The world-renowned apologist and debater and author and New Testament Greek scholar.
Dr James R. White of Alpha Omega Ministries says Jeffrey Johnson has provided a helpful and clear discussion on the key issues behind the whys and wherefores of How we got our New Testament text in light of the frontal assaults upon the integrity of the new of the text of the New? Testament pervasive in our day it is important for believers to have a knowledge of these matters and Johnson's work is a useful addition to the introduction available on the subject and as I said, that was dr James R. White.
Well, that should give us or should give our listeners. An explanation of exactly what we're talking about when we address textual criticism and Doesn't this whole subject usually come to light in the media when those who are either liberals or perhaps have even abandoned the faith like Bart Ehrman a Renowned textual critic who was at one time a professing Christian and was viewed as perhaps a one day hero of of modern evangelicalism and a shining light and rising star in the in the world of evangelical literature, he totally abandoned his faith and became an agnostic and Isn't the textual criticism usually coming up in discussion?
In the media and so on is when someone of that background is trying to get people to doubt the reliability of the Bibles that they have in their hands.
Yeah, that's right. Yeah airmen would say like there's more very all the. You take all of our Manuscripts that we know of and you're a easy answer. So and the goal that we we have what Jeff?
Look, maybe we need to start a little bit simpler here because I'm sure there are people listening. Who? When you say textual criticism, it sounds like we're liberals criticizing a text. Could you give us a definition.
What exactly you are talking about when you are talking about textual criticism.
Yeah, yeah, there's there's two types of criticisms. You have what you call and that's with liberal feel merely a divine author and accept that and their differences. Any. So there's six and that's because they don't accept obviously you can have some and the goat Of the Old and New Testaments with one another to reconstruct the original wording called the autographs.
Now the the autographs are document. Now we do not have copies of those doc copied and they were caught as the Manuscripts were copied and copied in that generation after generation up to 1 ,400 years of copying meaning meaning.
We wouldn't call a mistake even though I've already said there's like we have Every year all that. There's right at around 58. Variance.
When you say variance though, you're not talking about people even deliberately undermining the Word of God, right? You're just talking about human error.
Human error like Word spelling spelling error or adding extra article. I mean, in fact, no variance readable. You cannot translate those into as you translate the way you translate them into the into the English if it just be spelling errors or.
And they really have no great significance as to the outcome or what the passages are teaching. Am I correct?
That's correct. That's one of the goals of the book is to show that. Only two person. Okay, so can we get back then to our definition then of the textual criticism?
Because I just wanted people to know. We're not talking necessarily about Deliberately undermining the text, but we're trying to find out what the original text said.
Right. It's reconstructing. Seeking it. Look at all the manuscripts we have and seeking to take that and now. Isn't it true?
We were going we were both talking about part airmen before the agnostic who is one of the greatest champions of Bringing doubt in the minds of people regarding the reliability of the scriptures. Didn't he even I'm almost positive that during a debate with dr. White who wrote an endorsement for your book Didn't he concede that?
In the world of books of antiquity that the Bible is actually more Reliable in the Certainty that what we have today is very close to what the originals were. I mean when you compare the variance in text with secular works and so on.
That's right. Yeah, like 59 BC. You can go back to here. Look at all the ancient 3 to 95 ad. And we have some 808. Unimaginable. Yeah.
Now is it true that? Our brethren in Christ Who we would disagree with on a very major issue and who? And the issue is something that they would disagree with us on as well In fact might even tend to vilify us greatly.
But our brethren in Christ who are in the camp known as King James only now, obviously King James only ism is a wide spectrum of Includes a wide spectrum of people because you have sane sound rational even some brilliant people who are blessings to the body of Christ who Believe that the King James Version is a superior translation and their denominations have a view that that is the translation they use exclusively from their pulpits and so on.
But then you have all the way on the other end of the spectrum people who are raving lunatics who Who are really? Heretics in the true sense of the word because they are seeking to cause derision and in the church and and all kinds of Division and slander and And even calling into question the Word of God itself.
But but but isn't that? Movement that would be on the opposite end in many respects to the liberals within the higher textual criticism, aren't they sometimes really Unwittingly playing into their hands and up actually helping their cause.
But they're bringing doubts into the manuscripts that they reject.
Yeah, they are that that's only it's probably in that some of them are just larger sure people understand between the King James and the modern Version. If you really want to debate it from a scholarship standpoint, you have to look at the at the various at the manuscript level.
Not just on the transit. There's there's two things to consider that you have the translation which is which is a better Translation and I think there are some principles of translation. That's one debate.
Another debate is what are the best manuscripts right when you get into that debate? Which manuscript should we trust your two major textual families and you have the the visiting textual family? Which is the King James is based on then you have the Alexandrian textual family.
Which is what the show can say that maybe the Alexandrian is a little more faithful. But but even saying that we're not undermining the I think both families We can we can use all the manuscripts. I know there are some manuscripts that we would want to enter an end visiting.
I think we're looking at agreement. Yes families.
Well now you use the word faithfulness. I might as well bring the names up because they're gonna come up sooner or later in the next couple hours but I have never heard so much vindictive negative press as I have against Westcott and Hort and I started reading their book the New Testament in the original Greek and I you know Confess.
I have not finished the book yet. It's not exactly an armchair book, but it at least gave me an awareness just the enormity of the job before them what they were actually trying to accomplish and the Difficulty that they faced doing it and you know, I think they did a remarkable job considering things and they certainly Were a lot more careful I think with the text than a lot of people gave him credit for being.
Yeah, I think they're just living a criticism the text since then greatly. However, it's not like we should I think it's it's still you think team James only as I imagine it was just a huge stronghold back in that day and and so.
They were happening to fight against even today.
All right, we have to go to a break right now if you'd like to join us on the air with a question. For our guests today on textual criticism our guest pastor Jeff Johnson. Our email address is Chris Ornson at gmail .com.
Chris Ornson at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages.
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Paul wrote to the church at Galatia. So am I now saying. Or if God or am I trying to please man if I were still trying to please man I would not be a servant of Christ. Hi, I'm Mark Lukens pastor of Providence Baptist Church.
We are a reformed Baptist Church when we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689. We are in Norfolk, Massachusetts. We strive to reflect Paul's mindset to be much more concerned with how God views what we say and what we do Than how men view these things?
That's not the best recipe for popularity. But since that wasn't the Apostles priority. It must not be ours either. We believe by God's grace that we are called to demonstrate love and compassion to our fellow man.
And to be vessels of Christ's mercy to a lost and hurting community around us and to build up the body of Christ In truth and love. If you live near Norfolk, Massachusetts or plan to visit our area Please come and join us for worship and fellowship.
You can call us at 508 -528 -5750. That's 508 -528 -5750. Or go to our website to email us listen to past sermons worship songs or watch our TV program entitled resting in grace. You can find us at Providence Baptist Church Ma .org that's Providence Baptist Church ma .org or even on sermon audio .com.
Providence Baptist Church is delighted to sponsor iron sharpens iron radio. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen.
If you just tuned us in our guest today is Pastor Jeffrey D. Johnson, and we have him on the air for both hours today. We are discussing his book on textual criticism right now. Which is called behind the Bible a primer in New Testament textual criticism.
The second hour we will have a continued discussion on his other book the church Why bother the nature purpose and functions of the local church? If you'd like to join us on the air with a question our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.
Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. And my co-host again in the studio today is Reverend buzz Taylor. And by the way Pastor Jeff just a little tip for I should have told you this before but during the station breaks You might want to put your phone on mute because it sounds like you're working on a construction site.
It's because of the way the sound is amplified over the phone I guess.
And.
Before I go back into the discussion. Well, I guess this is actually a part of the discussion. Reverend buzz Taylor. Why did you? Beam with glee when you heard that we were discussing textual criticism today.
You seem to be more enthusiastic about that than anything we've ever addressed on this program.
Well, it's because it's a subject that well, first of all, I. What in my first pastorate back in New York State? I I had a couple guys in town with me that would visit my church every once in a while and they Wanted to be a part of what I was doing there, but they couldn't because I wasn't using the King James Version.
One guy his license plate was a v 1611 and the other guy stamped his mail. The King James is the Word of God so, you know. This is a subject that I was concerned about many years ago. In fact, I had done some research and had considered Writing on the subject myself, but then I got to thinking well, there's so many other good books out there though I might be better off, you know choosing other subjects, but it's been an interest of mine ever since then and The reason that you saw the glee a moment ago is because right after we were talking about this our ad for the new American.
Standard Bible came on. Oh, yes, that's one of these sponsors of iron sharpens iron and one of them. That's actually my Translation of preference. I'm going to take a deep breath and ask you Jeff. What is your translation of preference?
Interviews over interviews over.
Well, I'm glad you brought that up though seriously because that that Bible has suddenly become so popular and. Of course, it's most the time I did my research into the whole issue of versions and all that stuff was years ago.
So my information is very old. In fact, there was no ESB at that time. So.
But I've seen it. Yes, there was it was the revised standard, okay?
Yes, but I've seen it grow in Popularity especially in reformed churches, and I know nothing about it. I tried to use it for a little bit and I just found it was not quite as Fluent there. So I say flowing as I had hoped it would be in modern English, but.
Can you tell us something about the ESB?
Yeah, since crossway is not paying for this program. Just keep it keep it short.
Do believe the ESB is still most accurate translation and I never prepare a sermon without. You know, I look at the NASB because it's do I think is especially if you're going to do some major Bible study.
You definitely want the ESB. That is I do think it's it. I don't believe it's a pair. I do think early days. It's a little better than its first edition. So they're constantly going back and there are seeking to make a very accurate translation and but I'm preach from it is.
One is I believe it's a trustworthy version and I think it's very important to preach if you're preaching line-by-line. For the people to be looking at the same text. Yes, and I wouldn't have done it what I said.
I didn't like the the flow of the language as much. I was trying to use it primarily For radio for recording texts for radio and and. It was just a lot of things where I was because it was so fluent so fluid.
So I say I was expecting certain things and it didn't go, you know. The grammar and everything wasn't exactly what I was expecting. So I had to really concentrate to get it right as opposed to others.
You know, of course, I have the same trouble with the NIV which I wouldn't even want to touch anymore, but.
Well might it might be the fluidness or lack thereof is because it just wasn't a translation you were used to. That's that's entirely possible.
But I was curious about its sudden acceptance and but you are telling me of course you use it. So You're saying it is a very reliable translation then as far as I mean.
I I'm not. I know a little bit of Hebrew enough to get me in trouble. But right but when it comes to the Greek, you know, I'll look at look at. There's some times. You know, there's some times I don't agree with the times that I'm like like they're interpreting it and we have to remember all.
Translation has a degree of interpretation. Oh, yes. We'd love to say that's not true. Sometimes I feel like they may be taking a little bit. Yeah, and I may even agree with the way they do it that you leave the ink allow the interpreter, right?
Well, you know even the original translators to the King James Version said that they that are wise would rather have their conscience at Liberty Between you know to rather than to be stuck to one when it might be the other, you know.
But right so, you know. They they understood this and of course what people don't realize also is that even the King James Version took a lot of liberties? Because they wanted certain, you know prose they wanted certain Cadences at the ends of their sentences and you know for that structure.
Sometimes they would choose a word that might not have been the best Translating word, but the right number of syllables. And did they not did they not leave in?
Transliterations rather than provide English translations because they wanted to preserve peace within Anglican.
Well, we're not going to go into that subject because I'm a presbyterian.
Yes, I know obviously you're gonna lose every time with that that subject, but it's true, isn't it?
He'll make that case with the word and he thinks that should be translated. I mean, it's not just that I mean.
Even using the word Bishop and there were other things in this in the in the King James translation that they were the words were carefully picked to align more with Anglican polity and and Theology. Were they not.
I mean, isn't that why they didn't. They didn't provide clearer English translations for some certain words.
That would be a question that I may I may not have the scholarship to answer for some, okay.
That's okay, but going back to our King James only friends I find it interesting that I'm gonna try to parse my words carefully. There seems to be a great similarity between the way that they defend the King James translation and how Muslims defend the Quran in that.
We know from history that that all of the earlier versions of the Quran were destroyed and Therefore you you don't have the diversity of manuscript evidence that you do with the New Testament and You have King James only advocates who seem to be Putting forth the notion that any time that you have any question mark Where where where you have to dig and study and compare? you you are denying the inerrancy and the reliability of the scriptures and therefore It's obvious that many of them if they had the ability and power they would destroy every other Translation and every other Manuscripts that that existed.
And why don't you share with our listeners? First of all, what are the manuscripts that the King James Version is based on?
They're based on the visiting textual family and Which is the majority of the text that we have our business team. But but with that said they're not as where the visiting textual family. Early as you can go is to the fourth and many of those are maybe most most of those even though you're looking at 12 13 14 century manuscripts.
Would you agree though with my assessment that there seems to be a similarity not only not only with the King James only us and the Muslims in the way that they defend the Quran, but even in a weird way, they're all in agreement with the liberals.
Because the liberals say that we can't trust the New Testament because of these differences and so on.
Yeah, it's a naive understanding of the preservation of scriptures and it's if this that if there's not this I had copy machines. Back in the day. Yeah. And you know, I had a hard drive you can save this on it.
We would expect greater from different variants. Course I've already admitted that they're spelling admitted that you know, I think 75 and then the other 25 of which are still not major issues. However, the King James only advocates have this kind of almost naive assumption.
Usually what. King James only King James very with the King James. You know, it's wrong. So they're making the King James as the kind of a standard and. And and well. Maybe I should look at the King James and go back to the original language and see how well.
I made a mistake of doing that once when I saw a I'll tell you what it was. It was comparing the King James Version to the Living Bible of all things. I mean Please understand. I never called the Living Bible a Bible.
Okay, it's a Bible paraphrase, you know and I certainly do not recommend it before use as a Bible, but In the particular passages that this guy picked out the Living Bible I believe actually had a lot more accurate than the King James Version.
That was a shock to me. That's that and that was a lot of what really led me into the whole issue was the fact that I I read that one. Work, it's like wait a minute. What's what's really going on here, you know.
I think I think what we need to do on our side is because I mean this would undermine our argument as well. But what they'll say one of the chief argument the King James only Advocates make is like well for many years in English The King James was the and therefore has to be a reliable trustworthy.
We can be certain that it is a trustworthy the only one we have. I think that's a legitimate argument in this. In this sense I do think the King James is the Word of God, but I think the ESV and the NASB and other.
Translations. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, neither is it the same King James Version? Right, it's not the 1611. It's primarily 1769 or something like that that we have today.
And this is what's encouraging for the average person in the pew that doesn't know the original language and it's like man. Can I even trust the Bible that I have. I'm hearing all this. How do I sort all this out?
We have. The encouraging thing we need to remember for the layman is that the Lord Jesus used a translation himself the Septuagint. The Hebrew by a lot of that and when we compare the Septuagint to the Hebrew to liberties.
But look the Lord used which I think it's still yeah.
We have the work even as you mentioned the variance and the thousands and thousands of variance. There's not an assumption with what you're saying there that those variants can't be figured out by textual criticism.
That's right. That's the very easy to correct and some of them I think matter like the existence of Jesus Christ. We do want to know every words inspired. We would like to know the order of that but in the end of the day I'm not too concerned if it's Christ Jesus or Jesus Christ, right?
It's the truth is still Billy.
Yes, the thing that's bizarre and I don't even know how they explain the inconsistency that they have. But in regard again to the King James only is the more militant ones They tend to be although I'm sure there are Pentecostal King James only is They tend to be Very often vehemently opposed to Pentecostal ism and the charismatic movement.
They tend to be very much in defense of the idea that the sign gifts and revelation Cease with the Apostles the passing of the Apostles. And therefore it seems bizarre that they Would hold to a view that would force them if they're going to be logical and consistent To teach that the Anglican Church in the 17th century was somehow miraculously Guided by God in a revelatory way where there would no Errors in translation made and so on.
Do you follow what I'm saying?
Have to see that that look at that. That's really easy to undermine when you look at all the different Multiple revision and then isn't just that I mean what people don't realize is there never was.
One King James Version. Even since it's it's very first publishing you had it. One from Oxford one from Cambridge, wasn't it?
And you had the he and she Bible and the the biggest irony of it all. In regard to the more hardcore fundamentalist Baptist who embraced the trail of blood theory as to.
The.
Purity of the Baptist line going back to John the Baptist and their denial of any connection with the Reformation and their hatred of the Anglican Church As well as other branches of the Reformation. It makes no sense to me that a King James only as fundamentalist Baptist Would have such a high regard of the Anglican Church when it was executing Baptists in the same century when the King James Version came out.
In fact in the same year in 1611 there was a Baptist executed in London for being a Baptist. So so this is just this is bizarre. I mean have you ever heard any attempts at defending that or explaining that?
No, I haven't and honestly, I know there are. They're not actually or they're more of a Byzantine or Texas receptive Advocate and so they're not. They're not really saying hey that is the other the more there's more.
Is it really you meet those people standing. Yeah, and I do. I do want to be quick to say that some of my.
Dearest friends and men that I also even uphold as Modern-day heroes of mine whose writings I love and so on some of them would be in some shape or form King James only ist or at the very least King James supremacist for lack of a better term, but the folks like dr. Joel Beakey of the heritage reforms nomination they only use the King James version.
And David Murray who is a professor at Puritan Reform Theological Seminary? Which is a part of that denomination that seminary isn't anyway.
They.
Use the King James only and I've come to know and love a number of the brethren within the Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster and the Free Presbyterian Church of North America Who only use the King James version and some of these men have preached from the pulpit at my former church in? New York.
And although we did not hold to a King James only position by any stretch of the imagination We didn't even have the King James in our pews. But that that just I wanted to make it clear that I'm not just sitting here mocking everybody that right.
Because we have dr. Beakey scheduled to come to our church in 2018 we're looking forward to that and I've been asked to preach in different churches. And they've made it clear that the King James was the owner of that and I Think the King James is little.
Yeah.
Well before Chris forces us to change the subject to the top of the hour. I mean we can extend this longer.
We don't have to. We already did the Church. Why bother. So we can cut that little short.
I'm just wondering if you could spend a few minutes telling us a little bit about how you came to write your book and a Little bit of a breakdown of the the contents of the book.
Yeah, I'd be glad to read All that I could only really want to go through any type of stuff available on the top of person I think even if I'm not the nature of my study habits. Yeah, and so I remember Church won't bother about publish it.
Well, you know, I got another little manuscript. But wasn't even trying to get it published wasn't even trying. Really close to get ready to could be making a little like to know more about it and he said well I send it to him and he's a solid ground Christian book.
Doesn't seem fair.
Yeah, just by the way of is just a way of process, you know. So that's how it's been the introduction explaining what textual criticism Criticism is give a kind of a working definition. I go and spend a whole chapter on how many very important.
You know, it's like not all manuscripts should be treated equally. Valuable, but if you have a second, so how do we date now? It is a textual criticism. What he would do. He would pick a base document.
He would find that a manuscript that he thought was very trustworthy and he would. He had Other manuscripts and he used one as the base. Kind of a working one. And he used the other eight to help correct the one.
He's working. One way of doing methods. It's historical. The history of the Greek text, you know a lot crammed into that very a fairly short book. You don't have to have any prior knowledge. You can just dive into this book with with no knowledge on the subject.
I think it's very that's why it's called a primer actually. Right, right, and we have to go to a break right now. If you'd like to join us on the air, we do. Thank you. Those of you who are waiting patiently To have your questions asked and answered we will get to you God willing after this break, but I think we're going to extend this subject a little bit longer.
Perhaps even the full hour depends on how long the discussion lasts on the textual criticism aspect. But if you'd like to join us on the air as well. Our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.
Don't go away. We'll be right back with Jeffrey D. Johnson.
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Welcome back. This is Chris orange. And if you just tuned us in our guest today is Jeffrey D. Johnson pastor of the what's the name of the church? Greatest Bible Church in Conway, Arkansas. Sorry about that.
And He is the author of a couple of books that we're discussing today right now. We're still continuing a discussion on behind the Bible a primer in New Testament textual criticism and.
Later on if we have time, we'll continue a discussion that we began in February on another book. He wrote the church why bother the nature purpose and functions of the local church? And if you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.
Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. And before I go back into the discussion and address some of our listener Questions I want to announce That our friends at P &R publishing Presbyterian and Reform Publishing and the Alliance of Confessing Evangelicals are partnering for a pastor's retreat May 9th through 11th at Harvey Cedars, which is a beautiful Christian conference and retreat center on the Jersey Shore and the speakers are Dan Doriani and David Powelson both of whom have been a guest on iron sharpens iron.
The theme is the faithful shepherd and if you'd like to have more information about this Pastors retreat May 9th through 11th go to Alliance net org that's Alliance net org and click on events at the top of the screen and Scroll down there are a number of events highlighted, but scroll down to where you see the faithful Shepherd May 9th through 11th.
I also want to remind men in ministry leadership who are either from the Carlisle, Pennsylvania area, which is South Central Pennsylvania or if you're willing to travel there on Thursday April 28th iron sharpens iron radio is having our spring pastors luncheon at the thorn walled mansion, which is a Gorgeous historic mansion Originally erected in the early 20th century 1909 to be exact and was a place where national politicians Celebrities and societies elite were lavishly entertained.
This has been beautifully and recently restored to its original beauty and is the location of our next pastors or Our luncheon for men in ministry leadership, we're not we're not making it exclusively for pastors.
But if you are a man in leadership in your church Or perhaps a power church organization We would love for you to join us. Absolutely free of charge. Each pastor is going to be leaving there. With a sack of books you may get a hernia Or be a need of the hernia operation when you leave the building because we have major Publishers from all over the United States bring your trucks Donating the books for these men of God who will be gathered there including our guest Jeffrey D Johnson who is the founder of free grace press he has provided some books for each and every one of our pastors as well and Not to mention some of our the other publishers such as solid ground Christian books Presbyterian and reform publishing Baker B &H we could go on and on with the number of the generous and gracious Publishers that have provided books for each and every one of the pastors attending this event.
So if you'd like to go you're getting a free lunch. Also, everything is free from beginning to end we're also going to have a message from David Wood who is one of the most gifted Apologists alive today with a special specialization in Islamic studies.
He has debated Muslims all over the world And is a mutual friend of dr. James R. White who we have mentioned a number of times during this broadcast and Dr. White has a very high regards for David and And I if dr. White puts his seal of approval on David with regard to Islamic studies Then you know, he must be a man worthy of hearing and on top of that Stephen Bloom who is Pennsylvania State representative will be giving a brief message to our guests and I'm so impressed with Stephen Bloom with his Unwavering commitment to the gospel of Jesus Christ is unashamed Public stance.
In.
Favor of the scriptures and of his Christian faith. Without Backing down or being shy about it he will be speaking to the men as well. And I'm hoping that you can join us and you we only have room for about 25 or so pastors left because We have a maximum capacity seating of about a hundred in the area that we are in the mansion.
So, please email us as soon as you can if you'd like to go at Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.
As I was saying earlier we are discussing with our guest Jeffrey D. Johnson his book behind the Bible a primer in New Testament textual criticism and We do have a listener who has submitted a question Anonymously and This anonymous listener says my pastor says how can you trust?
Any.
Man who pretends to be a Defender of the Bible and the Word of God and yet will throw out a cherished story like the woman caught in adultery in the gospel of John chapter 8 and. If you could comment on that comment or question.
Even your modern Bible now, there's always come and but when you go to look at the sculpture. It's not in the out. It's not in the. Well, you're asking the wrong guy. I.
Said I was going to write a book. I didn't say I did.
Is a Legitimate personally. I I any issue personally with it being a family what Christ a legitimate.
Do you have a problem with those that do believe that it is not?
No, not at all. I can understand why many people would not want to preach.
Well now as far as that text is concerned though, isn't it? Also true that it appears in various manuscripts in different sections of the gospel. Right now but the problem I think that we're starting out with here as far as answering the question is.
Well, just the way the question is worded throwing out. Now you you follow that up with saying that it was not in the most ancient manuscripts now. You know, we need to think that cannot be just Ignored that it was not there.
It's not a question of throwing out who threw it out. Then is the question Was it thrown out or was it added in. You know, that yeah, that's a good good good thing to point out because.
It's you're you're all. You know, if you throw something after we don't go you don't trust anybody throwing out scriptures. But that's not the question like you pointed out. If the question is it Shouldn't be in Scripture.
Yeah. Well, this is where the slander.
Occurs when you have King James only advocates.
Of.
Maintaining that I mean with certainty that there is a conspiracy by translators deliberately to eliminate or obscure or hide truths about the gospel about the person and work of Christ about the Godhead itself and There is no basis for these Conspiracy theories at all.
Is there?
No, no, it's gone again. Weird, right. If you assume that's the standard than anything that's that it's a corruption, right? But it's starting on the wrong premise that the King James is not the standard.
Let's get back to the original text. Right, let's get back to the manuscripts and let's go back and see which manuscripts are the most trustworthy. And so that's what textual criticism is seeking to do.
It's not just Bluntly accepting a translation and saying okay. This has to be now the way that and perhaps you could critique.
My analogy that I tried to use or or comment on it, but the way that I have tried to explain that to people Is I have said let's say for lack of a better argument that a miracle occurs and Chris Arnzen does a English translation of the Bible and I put in John 3 16 That in the beginning was the word and the word was with God.
You don't mean John 3 16. What in John 3 16? That's what I mean the Gospel of John. I.
Mean, that's what I was saying. Okay, didn't I say John 3 16? Yeah, but you're quoting John 1. Oh, I'm sorry.
He's undermining the word what can I say?
Yeah, John John is right. And and I say in the beginning of the Was the word in the words of with God and the Word was God and and then I in my translation I have.
The word was the second person of the Holy Trinity. Now that obviously even a King James advocate King James only advocate would recognize that isn't in there at all. What are you talking about? But then another miracle occurs and for the next hundred years if post-millennialism is true and we survive for another hundred years.
This becomes the most popular version of the Bible. And then when people go back to the Manuscripts and they say wait a minute this sentence here.
That.
The word was the second person of the Holy Trinity. That isn't in there and they take it out. Then people say wait a minute this person is anti-trinitarian. This or this group of of textual critics are Anti-trinitarian.
They're taking out this beloved passage. That the second the word is the second person of the Holy Trinity now, isn't that somewhat what we have here in Comparison with the King James advocates. King James only advocates.
Exactly what happened? Yes, you're explaining what did happen in the heavenly witness passage in 1st John whether we are three or bear witness the Father Son of the Holy Spirit. That's obviously a very just not pinned by the Apostle John it's been added in there and.
And if that happened by Erasmus in that that in the old Vulgate that and and it was like the King James of the S worthy edition of the scriptures and and here Erasmus is critical text and he produces one and he leaves that verse out because it's not in any Greek Manuscript and he leaves it out and there's a parade is like, okay I promise you don't believe in the Trinity.
It's kind of the same argument and he basically said if you can find one manuscript. Just one that has that in their Greek manuscript. I'll add it. When you behold they found one. The ink was still wet on it, though.
Well, of course the assumption there is that there's this deliberate. As Chris alluded to it, you know conspiracy theories abound on this stuff that there's a deliberate move to undermine the Word of God and you know, I've heard things say, you know, people tell me that the New American Standard Bible publishers have Deliberately tried to expunge the deity of Christ.
Well, you know if they really were trying to do that you gotta. They were the most. They did a terrible terrible job because they left it in so many places.
Yeah, they they're not very good at what they're doing man. Yeah, you're right yeah, but the charge him with the motives of being deliberate is it shows the Kind of a ad homily argument. Yes, we need to do.
That's what they've done with with hot and bored. I mean exactly I think they begin to attack the person the character and yes.
That's what I was mentioning earlier if people want to criticize Westcott and Hort. They should at least first read their book instead of the the comic books that have written about them.
Right. So do you look at me? Look at the evidence. Look at the evidence not not the people themselves.
So do you think I should continue using that analogy? Is there flaws in that analogy or is that a reasonable analogy as long as well? That would be a big miracle.
It's.
A reasonable analogy because it's actually what did happen. Mm-hmm. That's what happened with Erasmus and you know, and that's why the King James has this. You know, it has this is in the third edition of Erasmus.
He took it out his conscious got a hold of him in the fourth. He took it out because he took it out, but it was the third edition that got and. And so we can know with certainty that that verse is not in there.
It is it it's been added to the you know, the Texas Receptus and it well.
I can even use my flub and say that in the arms and translation. For God's whole of the world that he gave his only begotten son the second person of the Holy Trinity. That's a whoever believed in sacred etc.
And then then a hundred years later That is the the most beloved version and then people find out wait a minute this whole Sentence of the Trinity is incorrect. Well now you just brought up.
Twice now the words text this receptus so could you please tell us a little bit about the Texas Receptus not only the The man is you know, the text itself, but the title that means received text, right?
Yeah. Yeah, but yeah, we're gonna get a little bit more than that. Of course. I.
Asked questions. I don't answer.
So we're not even viewed as a critical text, but it's the text that that began by Erasmus translation. Oh nine. He he used the manuscript. Like I said He took eight of the other manuscripts that you could find locally and he began to correct to correct the manuscript that he had.
But these other Greek manuscripts and by the way, if we haven't we've made earlier. But the word manuscript is something he would take these Henry to correct. And then that was his first in his own lifetime and after him come Theodore Bisa.
Who was a Bisa picked up and began to to the critical after Bisa was done. There is a man named Stephanus who came and he's the one. Stephanus is no Noteworthy because he's the one who added verses somewhere in the middle of his life where he was working on it.
It might have been the seventh or eighth Edition that he was edition it was but one edition in the preface. It was written now. We have after all these years is about 50 now. We have the received text of the text that or the received text the work that began with Erasmus.
That is the that the Greek text that the King James translators Their translation don't go back for the time rather than just this receptus. He discovered men did not possess. They did not even know about them and I can almost assuredly assure people that if Erasmus had been managed at on the utilized company He didn't have access to him and it only makes sense as and so that's what rest caught report did and it kind of broke.
Obviously they were well to use the term Texas receptus then would be the same in in Chris's Hypothetical translation here if in his original preface to the arms in translation He said now we have the received Translation and that becomes the name of the Bible then the to receive translation, isn't it?
Something like that? I prefer arms in translation.
I mean, this is universally the translation of that that day. Mm-hmm. More on work that the great Bible the Geneva Bible, right? And then we're all using the received text as a Greek text.
Including 1901 as far as 1901 at least right as far as 1901. Yeah, that's right.
By the way, our anonymous listener if you give us your full mailing address You're going to receive a free copy of behind the Bible a primer in New Testament textual criticism by our guest Jeffrey D Johnson and we assure you we're not going to expose you on the air.
Just give us your full mailing address so we could ship you out The book and we do have another listener. We have BB in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania. Who wants to know what problems do you have with the latest edition of the new international version.
When? Renowned reform scholar da Carson has done a study Bible using it.
It's hard for me to answer that because I have I'm gonna just I would surrender to the scholarship of the ace Carson. So it's hard for me to criticize. Do you know anything about the.
Hysteria that was caused over gender neutral Changes in the NIV. Somebody was telling me who was not a liberal it by any stretch of the imagination. That they weren't changing Words that were exclusively male in the original languages.
They were just turning Words that could be used to mean people that used as meaning people rather than men. They were they were changing those. Those terms, I mean, I don't know if you're familiar enough with the NIV's.
Yeah, I'm really not. I mean, I remember a couple years ago when that was I am but even bought. We look at it a little bit. Obviously, uh, I mean waiting what position in Wayne Grudem hold. Well, he was advocating.
He's advocating that we we don't do that. Yeah the mail. To be faithful with the text, right? And that would be my position too. I mean obviously it does refer to mankind and it can reckon that includes women and we don't deny that.
But my goal if I'm a translator and even a pastor my goal is to be faithful with the text. Yes, and now there are there are going to be some cases where you have to explain the text and they're going to be some Idioms that no longer are easily identified in our culture, but I don't think we change the idioms to fit our modern-day idioms.
I think we'd leave them to the culture that it's me. They will translate the text as faithfully as we can to the original and even if it's not about trying to undermine Any theological position even the translation, you know, even if the a car says that we're not trying to undermine that that God is male and male has a Headship position in the family even if they said we're not trying to undermine theology I still think we have to be faithful to the text as a translation and that would be where I would really question that.
The translation that you might be that does this, right?
No, I think some of the the the question Was directed to me since I'm the one that made the Disparaging comment about the NIV earlier. So let me just explain in fact.
In fact if you could explain it after the break as we have our final break, okay. And if you'd like to join us on the air, we do have a few more people waiting to have their questions asked and answered.
So we apologize for making you wait so long but hang in there. And if you'd like to join them now is the time to shoot that email out because it's already 530. We only got about 28 minutes left. The email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.
Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Don't go away. We'll be right back with Jeffrey D Johnson. Attention coin collectors and investors. Long Island galleries of Wading River, New York as Brilliant uncirculated 19th century Morgan silver dollars for only fifty four dollars per coin.
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Welcome back. This is Chris Sarnes. And if you just tuned us in for the last 90 minutes. We have been discussing behind the Bible a primer in New Testament textual criticism with our guest the author of that book Jeffrey D Johnson and we're going to continue that discussion rather than revisit the church.
Why bother we can. Return to the church why bother at another time? And by the way, that's no reflection on the theme of the church. Why bother as if why bother?
This.
This first Topic really seems to be keeping a good pace here, and we've already addressed the church. Why bother. But we will return to it at some point, but. Buzz Reverend buzz you had a question.
Yeah, well, there was the question that was aimed at why would we be against the NIV? That your listener sent in and I made the the comments earlier against it. So I figured I better at least Explain what I meant by that.
For when I was talking about the I alluded to the fact that I was thinking of the gender neutrality of the More recent editions of the NIV. When I said that, you know, I wouldn't want to use it. But let me just say even that anytime you have a translation of the Word of God Where it's an agreement with?
The Word of God it is the Word of God. So, you know, I will not say that the NIV is not the Word of God. People can Come to Christ using the NIV. The Spirit of God certainly can use that. But when I was talking about the the flow of the NIV I was talking primarily again from the standpoint of trying to use it for radio.
Where one of my goals is to try to read the scriptures, but not sound like I'm reading. I found even the NIV slightly stilted in some of the English to where I could not read it. Like I wasn't reading, you know I'd say so that was just a little that was a flop that was strictly because of the job that I was doing.
But.
Also, I had the experience years ago and I'm sure our guest Jeff Johnson can can relate to this because He's using the ESV right now. And yet he says he still confronts or not confronts Consults with the New American Standard when he's preparing his messages as a pastor doing expository preaching.
Oh, I was very concerned about original intent and the first thing I tried to answer about any text is what does it say before? I ever got on to what does it mean or what do I do about it? So I was dealing with the the text specifically and I just I tried to use the NIV for a while because I had just spent a year working for Teen Challenge at that time and Just about every church I visited which was you know, 130 some churches that year.
That's what people had on their laps was the NIV so I figured yeah. Well, I'm gonna use what's on their laps and right more and more evangelistic type preaching where great the stories were the same you know, no problem, but when I tried to use it in the intricacies of Exposing a text.
I just didn't like it as much I spent too much time Correcting the text but some of that was because just the nature of the NIV. It's a phrase-by-phrase translation instead of a word-by-word translation.
Well when you're dealing with the words, you don't want a phrase-by-phrase translation so that.
Exposition of the text. If you're not you're trying to get the thought you're trying to break down the thought which of course you get into the words.
Exactly and I just found that. You know, I went back to the New American Standard and so it wasn't that I'm anti NIV. Okay. It's just it wasn't What I was looking for at that time and I'd much prefer the accuracy of the New American Standard.
You just redeemed yourself and you will be coming back as our co-host. Okay good. We do have another listener in Clinton Township Michigan although the first half of the city. He lives and gives me the creeps the Clinton Township.
My apologies the citizens of Clinton Township. Or should I say my condolences? Jeff in Clinton Township, Michigan says. Greetings all. I was taught by several pastors and Bible teachers that Westcott and Hort were not to be trusted in that.
They denied the resurrection. Is this true?
Do you know if that's true Jeff, I don't know if that's true or not. I know Personally, you know the West red flag I have about them not that I think there I think we have to look at their work and not just criticize them as people I but one of the things to their studies if I can remember right this is five years ago when I When I studied them indefinitely.
Is that they did not believe. I think it is and so I think they had a presupposition that that I Wouldn't call them. I want them to be all together to Westcott or it would be in that you and I would be in I don't think Westcott and Hort were all together Evangelical conservatives now, I do think that they were experts in their field and I think they broke they broke ground that was necessary to be broken and And in God used them in a in a very important way.
So I I'm I'm on that try to be hopefully balanced because there are some that vilify them Unnecessarily and discredit everything they've done and there's others that you know that not so much today. But there's others that may have looked at their you know, they were dead on but even your textual scholars today Even Bruce Metzger would look at Westcott and Hort and in he and he would even admit that we have come In a progressive good way, we've come farther than they did and and even the textual Text that we're using today Nestle Allen edition Is a much improved edition than what was wasn't Bruce Metzger even Bart Ehrman's Mentor when Bart Ehrman was a professing evangelical.
That's right. That's right. And that's why Bruce Metzger would say about the criticism that he levied against the Bible the New Testament Metzger says, you know, this is a man that that Knows better than his own.
I think what we need to understand here too, though. Is that.
You know, we're not called to be the average layman is not called to be a textual critic. Leave that for the professionals. You know, we're not here to say, you know Westcott and Hort versus Erasmus. We're called to be doers of the word and you know.
Unfortunately, most of the arguments that I've heard have been from people who you know like one in particular was Wrote a whole book to blast the New American Standard Bible. And he said it had the seal of the Roman Catholic Church and he went on and on and suddenly I don't know me.
He was talking about the New American Bible not the New American Standard Bible, but he didn't know that. I mean, so we're not talking about the brightest lights in in the house here, you know in many cases, right?
So we need to remember, you know we have the Word of God preserved and I think that's the whole point that we're even discussing this issue is there is a An art and science called textual criticism and it works.
We do figure out the Word of God what it actually says and that's what we're accountable to. It's the message from God to our hearts.
All right. And now that buzzes undermined the sales of your book behind the Bible a primary new text. Testament textual criticism. Why don't you explain why this is a useful book for the average person?
Yeah, I can be honestly. It's one of those books. I've written five books. It's the book that people are least interested in and it's kind of sad because people look at the word textual criticism. Which is in the title and I go all of them.
Yeah, that's I don't want to I don't want anything to do with that.
We don't criticize anymore.
So maybe if I ever redo it the title needs to be changed because Because of the phrase textual criticism puts people off. But the reason why it's really a I think a important book for the it it gives even the average Christian a The confidence and that was the goal is to provide confidence That we do have God's Word that God has preserved his Word.
The bulk of the book is the historical the historical preservation of the scriptures and I show how You know how got what God used and the means that God used to keep his work and not only is it just fascinating and interesting.
But in the end, it's meant to be a book that causes people say hey, I have God's Word I can trust God's Word. Yes, and that's where it's important. And that's where the rubber meets the road is can I have faith in God's Word and the answer is yes.
The answer is without a doubt that would God has kept his word we can trust it. Methods of the handle. You know, which translation do I need? This is books not going to answer that question. What's translation?
Should I use it's going to show that and by the way Jeff from Clinton Township, Michigan.
You're getting a free copy of behind the Bible a primer in New Testament textual criticism compliments of our guest pastor Jeffrey D Johnson and free grace press and We have Christopher in Suffolk County, Long Island who wants to know.
Do you know anything about the charge by King James. Only us? That there was a lesbian involved in the translation of the New American Standard Bible.
No, I don't know. I thought it was the NIV now. It's the New American Standard. Yeah.
In fact, it was the NIV and it what was the I've heard this explanation from Dr. White and others that it was somebody involved in the choice of fonts or something, right? It was something that had nothing to do with the content of the Scriptures at all, you know, there was nothing the message or the wording or anything like that was not.
She was not in any way involved in that type of a role, right? Yeah as far as the English translation.
Well the book that I'm not going to write. Because because Jeff Johnson and James White have written excellent books with. One of the things that I was one of the angles I was coming at. More than I've seen in the other course.
I haven't read them so I can't really say that but I believe we have to be fair in our accusations because people blame those who are involved in anything other than the King James Version with things that they would not.
Things that they find intolerable. That if they were to look closer to home, you know I would not criticize Westcott and Hort without first looking into Erasmus, you know, there's.
Yes.
Brilliant Roman Catholic, but he was a Roman Catholic, right?
You can you can find flaws with anybody. You can find, you know, youthful speculations. You can look for the dirt on anybody, but at least be fair and you know, like, you know. Well, they were a little bit, you know shoddy on their word choosing.
Well, you know. There were places where the King means for translators might have been a little bit shoddy also. So, you know, let's just you know, like Jesus would have us to do let's operate, you know judging by the same standards and also.
King James only ist is in very weak position to make a claim about the NIV being corrupt because of a person Involved in the in the committee or company who was a lesbian when King James himself Has a very questionable moral character.
So I think it was terrible to name the Bible after him. But anyway.
Yeah, it's the whole thing is very ironic.
But I really want to make sure before the time just flies. Bias before I go back to a couple more listener questions. Jeff I want to make sure that you Left our listeners with the primary things that you want etched in their hearts and minds regarding your book today.
Yeah, I think the main thing is what I said earlier is it's if you're If you just want to know a little bit more about this and you say hey. What makes my book unique from the other books that are out there?
In fact, there are many good books out there and I would even say there are better books out there on the subject a lot better than this. But what my book does that the other ones don't do is I assume that the reader knows nothing of the subject and.
So if you're out there and you just want a basic knowledge Introductory knowledge of the topic. This book will give you a good introduction. It's a very short easy book to read you can read it in two hours.
And and and then you you can go from there if you want to know more then you can pick up some of the other Books that I reference within the book. Look at some of the footnotes of hey I want to know more about this where there are other books that are going to give you more in-depth study on the subject.
But by the end you already have to be familiar with the terms. You'll you won't have to look up in your dictionary. What is he saying? I do that for you. I break down the Jargon, if you would the technical terms break that down for you.
And then you can go from there into a deeper study if you like or you can be content. I think it gives me what I need to know to be almond objections.
CJ from Lindenhurst, Long Island, New York wants to know how important do you think it is for the average Christian to have? Any knowledge of Greek in Hebrew?
To it's some students that I've taught before up and down. Then someone who just barely knows Greek and right for instance. My father is a pastor. Forty years been pastoring and and he breathes the Bible so much that You could just almost he's like a living Bible.
He just starts quoting it is in any place and just quotes large sections of it. And it really what makes any text context and any translator Has to translate by looking at the context of the words. You know you look at a lexicon and it gives you the the meaning of these Greek words.
The person writing the lexicon is and so with that said if I was a translator. And I can only translating a sentence. I'm not going to be very good a translation trustworthy or Something that we can be certain that we have the Word of God is the fact it's not translating Just one or two words or one or two sentences.
It's translating the words in the context of the other words in context of the sentence in context of the paragraph in context of The book and it's the whole context that gives us a better understanding of the details.
The average Christian That does not know the original language can still have a very very solid. You can just use the Greek to support things. Another way you look at I think that the original language that Hebrew and Greek Adds color it's like going from a black and white television to a color television.
It has a little clarity, but you still can get the meaning of the text in black and white. Oh, yes, but if you can study the original and of course just a very basic knowledge of Greek.
Opens up a world of English helps to you.
Well, I can tell you this. I learned English by studying Greek. Oh, yeah, they didn't really pay attention to grammar when I was in high school. I started studying Greek. Okay, here's what a verb is. Is what a noun is.
Here's how. Here's how language works. I was like I had to learn how language works by studying.
Studying Greek. Yeah. Well, there are a number of really fantastic English helps to do that. Especially based now that they base them on the Strong's numbering system. It's very easy to look up Greek words.
But I'm saying if you have a basic knowledge of Greek you can use Greek dictionaries and things like that because that's right. That's right. You open up that world of Helps to you.
It sure does. We have a listener Christian in Carlisle, Pennsylvania Who asked? Isn't it strange that the King James onlyists that are anti Calvinist are defending a Bible when the majority of the Translators themselves were Calvinist.
Is that true? I'm not a hundred percent certain of that.
Is that. We're not certain of that too, but I wouldn't be surprised. I couldn't speak with certainty. I wouldn't be surprised of that because During that period though. There were some Armenians in that and that day, you know that Calvinism wasn't something I mean, it was a pretty predominant teaching.
Yes, and Thomas Cranmer was a thoroughgoing Calvinist and he was the right drafted the 39 articles of religion, right?
Well a lot of your King James the original 1611 King James Version was very very similar or identical To the Geneva Bible, which we have no doubt about that one being Calvinist. Yeah, and it's no I know.
Yeah, the Geneva Bible was.
Reference with the King James translators. I mean they they they weren't really trying to produce a totally different than per se. Even though it wasn't a fresh version. It was a clear fresh version. I went back to the original languages and however they were.
They had the the giant Bible and the you know the Geneva Bible or the great Bible the great Bible the Geneva Bible at their at their fingertips and.
I understand that the Puritans who favored the Geneva Bible looked upon the the King James Version as a new and weird and liberal Translation that they that should be avoided.
Well, this is what happened and when the Latin Heretical Heretical to any new training game time. You have a version is around for a while. I think it's mainly sentiment you get you grow up reading it you memorize it.
That's the Word of God. Because the deezer now, that's what I've memorized. That's what's familiar with me. That's the Word of God in it. And you start messing with that and you all of a sudden you you're sounding the same.
I think people say how can this be the Word of God? I think you're arguing not. We have an anonymous listener who?
Asks I heard you ask a recent guest if there was anything that would convince you of a new discovery of manuscripts. Whether or not they should be included in the canon that had never been seen By the light of day in history.
Or would you dismiss? Including any new discovery no matter what the.
Circumstances were well, I just missed it. Anything that was no.
Is that because you believe that in Providence God has hidden something for 2 ,000 years, it's probably not. Something that was intended for the church. Is that what you mean? That would be a strong that.
That God's given us his word that he's and. So that would be a bit now If anything with this was discovered and it was orthodox. Of course the way they determine which books are to be in the canon or not would be on various Criteriums.
And what does it match with what we already have? Even if we found something for instance, we have letters Barnabas that Truthfully, they sound like the Apostle Paul. In fact, they quote Barnabas What's a lot of the Pauline epistles and when you read that some of these letters by Barnabas you go, man.
That sounds good. In fact, it is good, but it doesn't mean it's inspired. Even though it might be orthodox that alone doesn't mean it's inspired. Something we would want to utilize and I would definitely maybe we could say this has a high degree of Fidelity to it and this might add a little historical value to our study of the New Testament.
But that doesn't mean that we open up the canon. It's okay.
It belongs very quickly. A Robert in New York City wants to know if you have any theories as to who authored the book of.
Hebrews.
You know, it's interesting because James White believes it was Luke.
That's interesting. Yeah, that is interesting. I'd like to hear James what argument on that and I bet it would be very convincing. But my argument is more is not as I mean, I wouldn't die on this. I know right.
But it just I know. There are some terms that Paul doesn't use. The author of Hebrew uses some terms that the Apostle Paul never did use. There are some phrases. It doesn't sound Pauline.
Well, we're out of time brother and we look forward to having you back and I know your website is GBC conway .com GBC for Grace Baptist Church or Grace Bible Church conway .com. Thank you so much for being a part of the program.
Thank You Reverend buzz again for being my co-host. I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner. We look forward to hearing from you and your questions tomorrow on iron sharpens iron radio.