Yet Another Twitter Mob Refuted, Romans 5:1: Indicative or Subjunctive?

Alpha & Omega Ministries

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00:33

And greetings, welcome to the dividing line. It is a Tuesday and it is 1019 in the morning our time.

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I'm going to be having some problems. My Twitter feed is flowing heavily, shall we say, and every time

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I click on something, everything else goes away, unfortunately. And so some of the things

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I wanted to be able to to read, I'm not being able to find right now, but we will we will do our best as we move along here.

01:04

I'm sure there'll be a bunch of things posted by the time I get finished here. Why would we be starting the program early?

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We're going to be doing it at two o 'clock our time. It's 1020 in the morning on the 26th.

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So today's 28. So two days ago, basically, after I saw yet another situation where an extreme leftist governor was talking about how we're going to follow science.

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Well, for example, there's this new Western States pact. I don't know if you've seen this, but there's this

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Western States pact. So we all if you're outside the United States, you may not know this, but our our coasts tend to be very leftist, at least the northeastern part of the eastern coast.

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And then what we call the left coast, the west coast. So California is a nation unto itself that only has one political party.

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It's run it's run only by leftists. And that's why all the wildest, weirdest stuff comes out of California.

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But you've also got Washington and Oregon, and they're run by leftists as well, even though their eastern portions tend to be more conservative.

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Anyway, so there's a Western States pact, which thankfully, our state's not a part of because we happen to have a

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Republican governor. And they're talking about how they're going to use science.

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And what they're doing is we're going to stay in lockdown as long as we possibly can push us as close to the election as we possibly can and cause as much economic damage as we possibly can as much chaos as we possibly can prior to the elections in the hopes that this will allow us to continue the leftward lurch of the

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United States. And so these are the same people saying we're following science, and they're all the same people who promote transgenderism, which

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I find to be a very inconsistent thing. Anyway, so on the 26th of April, I tweeted the following.

03:14

The print here is very small, but I'll do my best. Are a sufficient number of people waking up to the reality that the panic of 2020, which has always been political in nature is now openly and clearly political in its motivations, and that the costs in human life will dwarf anything the worst models ever predicted.

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So what I was saying is that there are people in positions of power who have this belief that you should never let a good crisis go to waste.

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And they are utilizing the COVID -19 pandemic and the panic that is produced in the hearts and minds of many people as a mechanism, handed them on a silver plate to push

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Western society as far left as possible. And you must understand the farther left society goes, the less freedom there is for the gospel, because the farther left you go, the bigger the state becomes.

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The state becomes the primary competition to the church. And we've said it over and over again.

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What was the initial conflict that the church had to deal with?

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They said, Jesus is Lord. The state said, Caesar is Lord. And that created the persecution of Christians from approximately the mid -50s all the way to 313

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AD. Even the solution 313 was not the best solution by any stretch of the imagination.

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But that's neither here nor there. The point is, that's what we are going to be facing. And if you are not, if you don't understand that leftism means the end of freedom for the

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Christian church, then you haven't been following what goes on in China. You haven't been following what goes on in North Korea.

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We haven't been following what goes on in Cuba. You don't, haven't read anything about what happened under the

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Soviet Union. And those are just, those are just facts.

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And there are people doing their best using this to push things in that direction.

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And there were political elements of this from the very start.

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That's what I said. So that was the tweet. Now you may disagree. I don't know exactly how factually.

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I mean, I suppose there are people who could say, nope, nope. There is nothing about the fact that it's primarily democratic governors that are doing this kind of thing.

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And you know, it has nothing to do with the fact that there's an election in 190 days.

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And it's just all fortuitous. It just has nothing to do with it.

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No. Okay. We disagree. We disagree. But that's what

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I put up. A day later, so the date anyways, on the screenshot that I managed to grab, a day later, someone who

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I do not know have no past, I don't know if I've ever communicated with this person, talked with this person, anything.

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Someone named DVD responded to my tweet. Now there were, is that 63 or 83?

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It's got circles in it. It's either 63 or 83 comments on that one tweet.

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This one says, my 49 year old ex -wife of 19 years.

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So I'm not sure that means divorced for 19 years or they've been married for, I don't know.

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Like I said, I don't know the situation. Past last week, a healthy woman with no bad habits died within three weeks.

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Till it hits you close, you have no idea. I spent about 20 hours in COVID -19 ICU and it was heartbreaking.

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That is the middle son with his mom and he is in depression. Now, is that, what does that have to do with what

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I said? Does that have something to do with the political aspects? I mean, all of that could be absolutely true, but have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with the fact that people will utilize these things in a political fashion to cause even more harm.

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So I didn't respond to that. I did not tweet to that person.

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I have said many times right now, emotions are such that people that I never, ever, ever expected to be, well, to use a

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Star Trek analogy, emotionally compromised. If you're familiar with Star Trek reboot movies, the first one,

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Spock became emotionally compromised. And so people that I never expected to be emotionally compromised have been emotionally compromised by this situation.

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And maybe it's due to their past experiences or just the way they're made. I don't know.

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I don't know, but they're emotionally compromised. And so you can't reason with panicked people.

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You cannot, panicked people, panic causes tunnel vision, first of all, as it should.

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If the guy in the hockey mask with the chainsaw is coming after you, you need to have tunnel vision.

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You don't need to be sitting there talking about long -term consequences. Okay. You want to get away from the guy with the hockey mask and the chainsaw.

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Okay. So panic is good in that context, even though I've always been the guy who, when you've got something like that going on in a movie, when you've got women who just start screaming, they can't do anything.

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They can't run. They can't lock a door. They can't fire a gun. They can't do nothing but scream.

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I'm always like, oh, come on. What is this? Natural selection taking place or what? I mean, just act, do something, be a man.

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That's a biblical term, by the way. Anyway, panic narrows the focus and that's what you need short term, but it can never be a long -term settled mindset or it will bring about destruction in anything in life.

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And those who are in panic want others to panic with them. And they are extremely challenged and offended when someone doesn't panic with them.

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And so you can't reason with that. It didn't even cross my mind to go, well, do

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I respond by saying, but that's not what I was referring to. And could we talk about what I was actually saying?

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Why did you respond? I just skipped it. I just skipped it. It was like, okay, whatever.

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Now, another person named Liana Miranda then responded to the other tweet.

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Now, like I said, there were, I'm going to start,

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I'm going to set that thing up on my screen where it blows stuff, that big, big magnifying glass type thing. Okay.

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There were 63 as of whenever I grabbed this screenshot about an hour ago, 848.

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63 responses. That's a lot. And I use the standard

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Twitter web -based interface. I've used the tweet bots and tweet deck and all that kind of stuff.

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And they've just always messed up for me. And so I use the standard thing.

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And I have, looking at mine right now, I have all and mentions under notifications.

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And then you have home, which gives you everything that you've, everyone you're following all that kind of stuff, which my stuff almost never,

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I never happened to see that. So yeah,

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I mean, I could, I could just go through, I've never seen explosion of nastiness, just, we want you dead tweets, like I've seen today.

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It's like, it was all just piled up and just waiting and, oh, here it is. Let's get them now.

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And a lot of you are Christians. Thank you very much for your kindness. I appreciate your support for, you know, and it's always,

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I've learned a lot from you, but you're a jerk. Oh, thank you very much. Appreciate about all that coming from everybody.

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So I don't remember because of this, whether, whether I saw that Liana Miranda tweet at the same time or later.

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And since it's been more than a day, you don't get the hour stuff. So you don't get the timestamp stuff to know, at least in the screenshot, what the time was, but Liana Miranda posted to the

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DVD guy. I am so sorry for your loss. And I'm sorry that so many are taking the humanity away from such loss and making it about politics.

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I'm so sorry. So if you observe the reality of what's going on around you, then you are taking the humanity away from the loss.

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Now, if we follow that type of thinking, the results will be disastrous for human life itself.

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This is not logical thinking. This is not rational thinking. This is purely emotional thinking.

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And when you succumb to purely emotional thinking, the results are devastating.

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Emotional thinking like panic is focused upon the present. It does not see interrelationships and it does not see down the road.

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It does not see what the long term ramifications of your decisions will be, or at least could be.

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No one can see the future perfectly. So here is my response, not to the person.

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Now, I can't tell from the screenshot. I don't remember doing it, so I may have mistakenly just hit reply, which if it included multiple people would have replied to the first person.

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Because like I said, 63 responses just in this one thing. Should have if I didn't, but most of us just hit reply and we do it second nature.

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And I wish Twitter just automatically opened up a window and said, who do you want to reply to? It would really cut down on Twitter traffic, but it might cut down on their advertising revenue too.

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I don't know. Anyway, here's what I tweeted, not to the person who reported the loss of an ex -spouse, but to Liana Miranda, who evidently was saying that I'm taking the humanity away by recognizing that there are political realities.

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There are people who are being thrown into despair.

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There are people who cannot feed their children. There are people being made wards of the state. There are programs that in January were doing research on diseases for children that are shut down right now because there's only one kind of research being done.

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There are huge ramifications and now ramifications concerning famine, loss of food supply, not so much in the

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United States though there, but around the world, because we are the nation, the world's breadbasket.

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We are the world's breadbasket. And you shut us down. You shut down the breadbasket and that has ramifications.

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We're not allowed to think of the ramifications. If you think of ramifications, you're a heartless, terrible, horrible person until the ramifications come true and then everyone's blamed for not having thought of the ramifications.

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That's how it works. That's what happens. So I responded to Liana Miranda.

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If I were to tweet a picture of someone who died of, say, a cancer that was caused by industrial contamination, would

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I be taking the humanity away from the loss by pointing out the obvious reality of the political realities underlying the situation?

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Now, I discovered in the follow -up conversation with Liana Miranda that I had wasted my time.

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In fact, when she responded, she responded by saying, seriously, your statement, the panic of 2020 has always been political in nature.

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Always? I live in New York between two hospitals. People around me are living in fear because the number of body bags they see.

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What is political about death all around you? So my first response was panic cannot be reasoned with. And so here you have an emotionally compromised person.

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And so why should I have even bothered? Well, because other people read it.

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Did she understand what I had said? No. Did she respond to what I had said? No. Neither did the first tweet.

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None of them had responded to what I actually said. And right now the hate mongers just pouring it on are not talking about what

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I actually said, but what I should have said. They can't poke a hole in the truthfulness of it.

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You just shouldn't have said it to him. But they don't even get that right. Didn't even get who I was talking to right.

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It's just this explosion of nastiness. None of it dealing with what was actually spoken.

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There's something in scripture about us being held accountable for the words that we write and speak.

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That's true, but we will not be held accountable for the words that we did not write and did not speak.

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And hence, when you attribute to people actions and words that they did not do and they did not speak, you're the one that will be held accountable for your misrepresentations.

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Let's just keep that in mind. We all have to keep that in mind. So my response was to demonstrate that you are not taking the humanity away from anyone's loss.

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In fact, may I suggest something? If you, by thinking carefully and by restraining your emotions, and I would argue that when

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Paul uses such politically incorrect language as, be a man, stand firm, be disciplined, be strong,

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God has not given us a spirit of fear or timidity, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.

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That this is what he has in mind. That this is what he's saying the

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Holy Spirit brings about. Holy Spirit does not bring about emotional messes.

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And so, if we, in this situation, stand for truth, stand for freedom, for liberty, and stand against the kind of overreaction that will kill more people in the long run than COVID -19 ever could have in the short run.

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Who is being loving? Who is being truthful? And who is honoring the humanity of those who are lost?

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If you allow, if you just stand back and just go with the flow and allow an overreaction that ends up killing more people, aren't you taking the humanity away from those people?

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Oh, but we're not allowed to think that far down the line. Oh, no, no, no. We're only, those curves only go to like August, and that's as far as we can think.

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Well, evidently, if you think past that, you're a terrible, mean -spirited, nasty, nasty individual.

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Because that's what I'm reading online right now. I mean, I've got people saying farewell, just like they said farewell to Rob, what's -his -face, when

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John Piper said farewell to Rob Bell. They're saying farewell to me. I have, you need to understand, these people are actually saying that my daring to point these things out means my ministry is done.

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Everything I've done. 174 debates, irrelevant. It doesn't matter.

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You're just such a terrible, nasty person, because you actually think past just the present and the emotional fog that has me trapped within it.

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Okay, so my response to Liana Miranda, factual, logical,

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I've seen no one even try to take it apart. And they won't, because it's self -evidently true.

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Then I did respond to Liana in about four tweets. And I only have the first one here.

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But I went through what we've gone through before. I went through the death and mortality statistics provided by the

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CDC. This is from 2017. I'm not sure why they're not up to 2019, but 2017.

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And I went through the causes of death. And my point was this, and again, it's not something that's going to be disputed.

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My point was that there are many that most deaths are not from just a single cause.

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Now, you could have, for example, car accidents, where that's the singular cause.

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You have a perfectly healthy person. There's no weather conditions. It's just one of those terrible, horrible things that happens.

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And so you got a singular cause. But most elderly deaths are mixed causes.

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There's degradation due to maybe chronic breathing issues and heart issues.

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And, you know, maybe treatment for guys, treatment for prostate cancer can end up killing you some other way, for example.

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So was it prostate cancer that got you? Or was it treatment that got you? You know, it gets complicated.

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And so the numbers are difficult, necessarily. But the point is, part of the panic has been due to the fact that I never, ever see the

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COVID numbers being placed within a meaningful context of human mortality to begin with.

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They're always isolated. Look at, look at Fox News. Fox News can be talking about Joe Biden's sexual allegation stuff, which would be 24 -7 right now if it weren't for other things, which has political ramifications as well.

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But even while they're talking about that, what's up on the screen? U .S.

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and global COVID deaths. That's what's on the screen. It's on your phone.

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You're being sent push notifications. It's all around you.

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Every website you go to, the first thing that pops up, COVID -19, COVID -19, it's everywhere.

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You want to buy a bike tire? COVID -19. It's everywhere. You cannot get away from it.

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Do you ever see cancer that way? Do you ever see diabetes? Do you ever see heart disease? Cancer and heart disease are the two biggest killers by a long shot.

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Long shot. Now, I saw a tweet, I don't know, a week ago about a guy.

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It was said he was killed by COVID -19 and he died of a heart attack. Well, who gets to decide which category that goes into?

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I mean, that's strange. It's weird. And again, it shows the difficulty in providing exact numbers.

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But I provided a breakdown to Liana and said, was this the one?

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I'm trying to remember if this was the thread where I used the example of Alzheimer's. And I said, because there have been a number of environmental factors, factors that you use, stuff that you use, for example, in your everyday life that have been connected with Alzheimer's.

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Can you imagine what it would be like if every five minutes your phone's going off about another

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Alzheimer's? Because Alzheimer's in 2017, 121 ,404 in one year.

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That's over 10 ,000 per month deaths from Alzheimer's.

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And Alzheimer's is, if you want a reason to hate the fall and sin,

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Alzheimer's is about the best thing I can come up with, to be honest with you. So, I mean, if you were surrounded by that all the time, if there was a concerted effort to make you afraid of getting

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Alzheimer's, would it not radically change your life? But that doesn't happen.

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Why not? We need to think about the why nots. Why isn't that the case?

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It's worse. We don't even know exactly what brings it on, but there are factors that have been identified.

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So why aren't we panicked about that? Well, because this is new and this is highly contagious and it's never, ever, ever, ever been seen before.

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There are actually hundreds of coronaviruses. So I wrote about three or four in a chain to this

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Liana Miranda. And then I think, if I recall, it was yesterday, so I think it was the next day,

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DVD, the guy responded to me and I was not able to bring this up.

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It's in there someplace. There are just too many threads. I can't find everything. I did not realize at the time who it was.

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It was just since you're getting so many things and basically said, he basically said,

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I've been a fan of yours, but you're a waste of time. And so I was like, well, waste of time.

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Well, thank you very much. Have a nice day. And muted the person.

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I've been meeting a lot of people, um, instead of blocking them because, you know, when, you know,

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I'm not sure. I don't, I don't think I have an exactly consistent line, uh, between the two.

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It sort of depends on how you feel one day, but I tried to use the mute more than the block because people consider the block to be a, uh, you know,

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Oh, look at me. I'm, I'm special, you know, whatever. It doesn't, doesn't do much.

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It, all of that's for me anyway. So I don't have stuff sitting on my desktop that people insulting you and, and, you know, calling you all sorts of names and lying about you.

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And it's not necessarily fun stuff to have on your screen. Um, so, uh, still trying to get this thing to, to work.

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Um, anyway, so that's what happened. So this morning

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I get, um, a note.

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You've got, uh, Paul Flynn over in Ireland. Now, some of you remember

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Paul Flynn was hooked up with Brandon house. In fact, I think he had a program on brand houses thing for a while and then got kicked to the curb because nobody can get along with brand house.

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Um, but, uh, Paul Flynn has been going after me for a long, long time.

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And people started writing to apologia and saying, you know, this man needs to be rebuked and look at how terrible and horrible, look what he said.

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This poor person had none of them got the Twitter, the Twitter thread, right. Even though they reproduced it, there was one of them, which the, the, what

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I have in my screenshot is what they reproduced, but they didn't even recognize. And Rich, you said you didn't even recognize at first, but look, if anyone questions this, look at the quotation that I gave.

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I provided a quotation and it's from Liana. Okay. There's no question about this.

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There isn't, there's, this is not, this is not a, you're trying to hide something. No, nothing's been deleted.

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It's all there in the public record. I'm going to keep that screenshot. We'll post it if you want.

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I responded to a Liana Miranda, tried to reason with her. If you follow the thread, you'll see that her response was purely emotional to the facts that I provided.

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And I gave up right now. Well, it's not just right now, before all this happened, there were times you just simply have to give up on certain people.

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It just, it just, this is the way it was. It's much worse now. But Lex Luthoran, a fellow on Twitter that I've had blocked for a long, long time, likewise jumped in, and Lex Luthoran has crates of these.

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And he, he creates, he actually makes them himself. Okay. Probably one of the worst representatives of Twitter that I can think of.

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He jumped on it. Paul Flynn jumped on it. It's like, all of a sudden everybody's, oh, this is it.

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We've got him. He was, he's just a heartless, nasty person. Did any of them actually deal with who

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I was actually talking to and what I actually said? Of course not. Of course not. You whip people up into a frenzy and they don't go back and ask the question, what was actually said.

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Here's the concern. What? Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Here's, here's why the rest of you who are sitting back going, man,

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I'm glad I'm not James White today. Here's why you should be concerned about this. Oh, there's a little bit less of the straw man.

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There used to be. Put that over there with, might be able to repair him later on.

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I don't know. Here's why the rest of you should be concerned about this.

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Not only should we all be concerned when the Twitter mobs get the pitchforks and torches out and decide to go after somebody and just totally ignore what was actually said, to whom it was said, what was said, the content.

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Let's not worry about any of that kind of stuff. Let's just ascribe the most evil motives possible.

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You know, someone mentioned, I can't believe it. This guy wrote a book on grieving. Yeah, I did. I wasn't,

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I did not choose to enter into a counseling relationship with someone who chose to take a shot at a tweet that I wrote, take it completely.

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This was a troll shot, folks. This was, this wasn't what I was talking about. When you purposefully go into somebody's thread and throw an emotional bomb into the midst of it, and they ignore you, you've got no basis for going after the guy who wrote the first tweet.

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But that's what this is. It's exactly what this is. And it can happen to any single one of you and every single one of you with your pitchforks and torches right now, standing outside my door, it can happen to you too.

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And the day it does, I hope you remember what you did to me. I hope you'll remember. Because you won't be able to say, oh, someone needs to come to my defense because you were one of the people in the mob.

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But more important than just, well, it's Twitter mobology again. More important than that is this.

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There is going to be a price to pay for anyone who dares go against the flow that is developing in social media in regards to these issues.

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We're seeing the, I mentioned it yesterday, the virtue signal. What is the virtue signal?

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What was the virtue signal in November of 2019? You would virtue signal about transsexuals and trans rights.

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Wasn't Joe Biden saying at the end of 2019, yeah, it's like October of 2019, I think Joe Biden was saying the civil rights issue of our day, transgender rights.

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And we're all going, really? Oh, so that's virtue signaling now.

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That's how you virtue signal. How do you virtue signal today? You virtue signal today by saying we're all in this together.

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Stay home, save lives. And so there is an entire narrative that everyone has bought into with the few small exceptions.

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And when you dare go, you know, this doesn't make any sense.

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We've never done this before. This is not how we've responded to things in the past.

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And long -term, it is not sustainable. It will result in the collapse of the entire economic system of the world resulting in the end of medical systems.

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And oh, hey, it might destroy most private hospitals. And we may end up with state -run hospitals.

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Oh, I wonder if that is political motivation. Oh, if you dare say any of these things, then everybody, including the conservatives, will come down on you like a ton of bricks and will say you're heartless, you're mean, you love...

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What was it when someone finally first peeped and said, hey, this sort of looks like it's going to completely crash the economy.

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What was the immediate response? You love the almighty dollar more than you love people, more than you love life itself.

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Right? That was the first thing that came out. First response. And when you sit back and you go, could we talk about this?

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No, you're a terrible, mean, horrible person. Goodbye, James White. You're done.

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We're done with you. You're not allowed to even think these thoughts. You're not allowed to point us to the reality that what we are doing is going to have ramifications in six months, in a year, in two years, in five years.

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You're not allowed to remind us of these things, because right now we are so emotionally into this that we are just going with the flow and we're all in this together.

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And it's wonderful. And don't you dare stop us. Don't you dare warn us that the cliff ahead has no place to stop on the way down.

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Don't you dare. You're just, just go over there and watch your info wars. Right?

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That's what we're being told. Now, more and more voices are going, yo, hey, you know, you can come up with vaccines for viruses, but there ain't no vaccine for starvation.

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And there ain't no vaccine for communism either. Communism tends to get rid of all of its enemies.

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Ask the CCP where the Uyghur Muslims are. Ask the CCP where the

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Christians are. Ask the CCP why they continue to dynamite churches today. And who is benefiting from all of this globally right now?

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Globally, the CCP. Look into it.

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They are rushing in with money and propping up nations and making those nations their debtors.

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To do what? To promote communism. That's what they're doing. You can close your eyes to it.

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You can laugh and do whatever you want. And, but five years from now, are you going to be apologizing? Will you even bother?

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I wonder. Yeah. Will you, will you, will you have the freedom to do so is the question.

39:18

So there is going to be a price to pay for people who have not simply meekly submitted to the new

39:32

Romans 13 mantra. The Romans 13 separated from Paul's own experience, separated from the book of Acts, separated from the entire history of the early church.

39:46

That mantra is going to be picked up and utilized.

39:53

And if you didn't just do what you're supposed to do, it's going to be a price to pay. It's going to be a price to pay.

40:02

So in this situation, once again, the choices are silence.

40:16

I could have Liana Miranda, could have ignored it, could have ignored it, could have let somebody, could have just simply let the narrative grow and, and reverberate that if you dare to point out the realities of how this is being used to accomplish in a matter of months, what could not be accomplished by Hollywood could not be accomplished by elections could not be accomplished by compromised justices on Supreme courts for years has been done in weeks.

41:00

But if you dare point that out, if you dare say we need to be thinking about this and recognizing the new challenges that we're going to be facing and the fact that what we do now is going to in point of fact, have an impact on future panics, because there will be future panics.

41:23

There'll be a second wave of COVID -19. There'll be a COVID -20 or a COVID -21. There'll be panics based upon all sorts of infrastructure issues that we've now brought upon ourselves.

41:38

And the reality is we've said to the state, we will roll over and look to you to depend to provide for us.

41:46

We will stop building, building businesses and working.

41:51

And we will say to the government, take care of me. What's that going to mean?

41:58

What's the long term in regards to view of mankind, freedom for the proclamation of the gospel, abortion, redefining marriage, human sexuality.

42:15

What's that going to mean long term? Well, we can't talk about that. You're not allowed. You're not allowed to say those things.

42:22

We're just, we all need to be in this together. Just shut up. Just shut up and go away. That's what, that's what

42:27

I'm reading. Shut up and go away. That's, that's what he's, he's irrational.

42:33

He, you can't talk to him. No one's trying to talk to me. There's, if you want to talk to me, interact with what

42:40

I actually say, not with what you were lied to about what I allegedly said.

42:45

Just, just last week, as I recall in a place on Facebook, someone put up a big,

42:54

I don't know why they didn't just type it out. Maybe if it's in big graphic letters, it gets responded to or something.

42:59

I don't know. But someone put up, can you believe James White said that he'd, you should, it would be better for you to read the

43:08

Quran than the King James version of the Bible. And someone had actually told somebody that I had said that.

43:19

I mean, it's as, it's as huge a lie as possible. I'm guessing, my guess would be that where they got that was back when

43:30

I was talking about the TR guys, the arguments that they were using to substantiate ignoring the historic, historicity of the text is the same argumentation used by Muslims in support of the

43:44

Quran. Those are not the same statements by any stretch of the imagination, but I imagine that's probably where it came from, but that's the kind of thing that can morph and go out there.

43:55

And I am stunned at the willingness of Christians to believe that kind of utter abject foolishness.

44:04

Same thing here. Same thing here. There was somebody and I lost it. And I, I, I even, wait a minute.

44:16

Um, hold on a second. Maybe if I look at my own and tweets and replies.

44:27

Ah, yeah, there it is. Okay. I found it. Yay. Twitter worked for me once.

44:34

It was LBCF Logan, uh, at 1689 Wolverine had said, farewell, James White, you're done.

44:41

You're out of here. Daring to respond to somebody else about accusing you of removing humanity and demonstrating that that's not what you're doing.

44:52

Ah, you're not allowed to you're done. You're just too mean spirited for LBCF Logan.

44:58

Uh, Jordan Corbett reformed Jeff L I think, or Jeff one or Jeff Jeffel.

45:06

It's about his that's me complete disregard for the commands of scripture to be loving to your brother, to love your neighbor, to build each other up.

45:15

Yeah. I've never done that. I mean, did you see that last sweater vest dialogue that Doug Wilson and I did? Cause this guy obviously hates

45:21

Doug Wilson because he's on to say James White has been on a downward slope since he staunchly defended and stood alongside

45:26

Doug Wilson amidst Doug's myriad issues. Ah, well we can tell where this guy is coming from, but you just see that last sweater vest dialogue

45:35

Doug and I did. I mean, that was just, there wasn't an encouraging word to be found that entire, the entire program was there.

45:43

There wasn't anything about God's faithfulness over time, love for the word of God, uh, you know, centrality and witnessing of Christ, the world, nothing.

45:53

It was just not complete disregard for the commands of scripture. Jordan, you just lied.

45:58

You just broke the ninth commandment in public. And I just called you out about what are you going to do about it?

46:04

Cause everybody knows that's not true. My worst enemies know that's not true, but right now my worst enemies don't care about what's true.

46:12

At least it's what's going on here. Um, Oh, now why did it, uh, the interface because it shows, there you go.

46:30

Yeah. He responded, you don't need my permission. It's Twitter. I stand by what I said. Well, good Jordan. Uh, at 1689

46:37

Wolverine. Um, if you, if you stand by, if you want to, if you want to let people look at my history, look at the last six months of this program, this broadcast hundreds, if not thousands of hours and say, complete disregard of God's commands to love your neighbor.

47:01

He's never, never done anything loving to his neighbor at all. If you want to stand on that, we'll let you stand on that.

47:10

We'll let you stand on that. That says a whole lot more about you than it does me. It really does. So there you go.

47:16

Um, one last observation, and then we're going to move on to other things.

47:24

Cause this is a regularly scheduled dividing line. Just, we just started at a different time. Um, I don't know if and when this panic is going to end.

47:38

It is going to, this is, I believe a turning point in the history of the globe.

47:46

I really do. Um, the ramifications are going to be long and deep and wide, and I don't claim to be able to see all of them.

47:55

I'm just simply, I'm just simply the Debbie Downer guy. You know, if you're not who

48:01

Debbie Downer is, I'm the Debbie Downer guy going, you know, what we're doing could down the road, really, really impact our lives.

48:13

And if you actually love people, then you'll tell them hard truths.

48:20

We live in a very immature day. Um, it really seems a lot of people don't understand this concept of parenting because you have to say things to your kids that they do not, at their point in their life, have the maturity to understand why you have to tell them these things repeatedly over and over again.

48:48

But you know why you have to tell them these things and you love them enough to put up the stank eye you get or the rebellion you might get or the,

49:00

I just can't believe you don't love me stuff that you get because you know what they don't know.

49:07

You have a level of maturity. Our society is deeply immature. Why do

49:13

I say that? Because it is based upon emotion. Learning to rein in your emotions and to think long -term is the very sign of maturity.

49:24

And I was saying that long before COVID -19 came along. And in fact, I was saying that when almost every single one of you piling on on Twitter right now, throwing the dirt on top of my grave, was thinking

49:38

I was a great guy. You agreed with me then. Who changed? It wasn't me. It was you.

49:45

You changed. I've been saying this for a long time.

49:52

The reality is maturity means you will think things through and you will seek to rein in your emotions.

50:05

I'm not talking about becoming an automaton. How many programs ago was it that I took this beautiful Bible and I read you from Isaiah chapter 40?

50:20

Now, did I have an intellectual, historical, biblical, scholarly reason for reading from Isaiah chapter 40?

50:30

I did. Were my emotions disengaged?

50:38

Were we not all as a group moved by the description of the Almighty God found in those words?

50:44

When we got to Isaiah 40, 26, and we talked about Him leading forth the stars by His mighty power, not one of them is missing.

50:54

I may still try to do it if I can track it back down. But one of the things

51:01

I wanted to share before the pile on, please die and go away stuff started happening today,

51:07

I wanted to share was from that discussion with Jason Lyle.

51:13

And then, remember Jason was talking about how the magnetic poles switch on the sun?

51:19

Well, the next day, one of the lists that I subscribed to had this really cool graphic where there's two little sun spots.

51:27

They have reverse polarity from one another. The switch is happening right now.

51:33

The switch is happening right now in the sun. It's fascinating. It's awesome. Our God is great.

51:38

Are my emotions involved when I read Isaiah 40, when I think about the stars, when

51:44

I think about His creation? Yes, they are, but they have to be subject to and disciplined by.

51:54

So if I get all emotional about that, and then I go running off and start saying, that means the

52:00

Bible is saying this, and that means the Bible is saying that, that's where I've lost my maturity. That's where I've lost control.

52:08

So the emotions are real. If you want to believe that I am an emotionless, mean -spirited, mean -hearted automaton via the internet,

52:24

I can't stop you. Thankfully, people who know me know that's not the case, but I'm not asking them to be going out there and making themselves the targets of all the nastiness just because someone pulled the plug today and it's, you know, put the gravestone up, he's done.

52:50

Have people at mass exodus. Okay. If there is, it won't be because of anything

52:56

I said, it'll be because the lies that you all are saying. So, and I know most people who listen to me, this program, most people are certainly going,

53:07

I just can't believe you had to waste your time doing this, but you must need to understand there are people who watch this program faithfully out of hatred, hatred, jealousy, division.

53:26

Yeah. Yeah. People who put the thumbs down on the YouTube video before the program starts. Yeah. All that kind of stuff.

53:38

All right. What? Oh, I didn't even see that.

53:48

I was just, Michael Brown, there is now a prophecy that Trump will be reelected and will become a truly praying man in the second term.

54:00

Wow. Okay. I don't even know what to, I don't even know what to say.

54:06

Oh, he's doubling downward. Oh, I'm sure he is, but okay.

54:18

So you're talking about, where'd you get the idea that I'm passively waiting to be told what the facts are? I'm not doing my own research, making my own observations and then coming to my own conclusions.

54:26

Oh, that's, that's written to somebody else. It wasn't written to me. That's why, maybe that's why it didn't come up. You know, I'm thinking on Twitter, unless your name is the first name.

54:41

No, don't you just love it? What? No, I'm not gonna be able to find it.

54:54

It doesn't matter. I'm not gonna be able to find it.

55:00

It doesn't matter. If you're not, look, if you're, if you're, if you're not willing to listen to the entirety of my ministry and the

55:08

Swear of Us Dialogue is a part of that, what can I say? I'm done.

55:14

We're, we've, we need to say, these things pass. I'm just saying to all of you, if you see what

55:25

I'm seeing, be prepared to be treated this way as well. Just, it's gonna happen.

55:31

And it does not make me bitter toward Christians as a group. It just makes me aware of the fact that there are a lot of people who call themselves

55:39

Christians who are deeply influenced by something other than a consistent reading of Scripture.

55:47

What can I say? What can I say? Okay, I should probably take that, because I'm seeing a bunch of other stuff that's written to other people, so I, but I'm not seeing what you're, what you're talking about to me.

56:04

That doesn't matter. Doesn't matter. Not gonna go there. Okay, I said that I wanted to talk about a textual variant.

56:12

Yay, let's talk about textual variant. I had this all set up for the day. I was gonna do it this afternoon. And this is one of those places where this never happens, because this is where I'm going, you know, as I think back on my own life ministry, you see conclusions you came to, and then later on you go,

56:41

I never thought of it this way, I never thought of it that way, that this sheds light on something.

56:46

So let me tell you about how this happened. Maybe it'll help you, those of you who are ministers, you're preaching, you're

57:00

Sunday, as in a church, as in with people in a church. And I preached from Romans chapter four.

57:11

It was the third in a series, ended up being four sermons, three from Jeff Durbin, one from me, on justification.

57:22

He decided to put in a sermon on answering objections, so specifically

57:27

James 2 and Romans 6 and a few places like that, where people raise objections, standard objections you'd hear to justification by faith.

57:37

So initially he was going to be doing two sermons, and then on Easter Sunday asked me to do a summary on justification by faith.

57:45

Well, he had pretty much summarized everything. And so since it was Easter Sunday, I started thinking about a text that I've always, there are certain texts where you go, you know, someday

58:03

I'm really going to delve into that, but it's going to mean I have to look at this, I have to look at this, it's going to be a lot of work.

58:12

And you end up with a whole list of verses like that, that you'd really love to dive into, but there just isn't enough time.

58:22

One of them was Romans 4 .25. Romans 4 .25 says, speaking of Jesus, well, back up.

58:29

Now, 4 .23. Now, not for his sake only was it written that it was credited to him. This is right after quotation of Genesis 15 .6.

58:37

But for our sake also to whom it will be credited, as those who believe in him who raised

58:43

Jesus our Lord from the dead, he who was delivered over because of our transgressions and was raised because of our justification.

58:53

So, was given over because of our transgressions and raised because of our justification.

59:08

Given over, dia, our transgressions. Raised, dia, our righteousness, our justification.

59:22

What, so what you have here is in some sense, you have a connection between justification and the resurrection.

59:36

You know, it's Easter Sunday, so immediately my thoughts turn to this text and I'm like, all right, how do you, how do you play this out?

59:47

How do you explain this? And then I noticed something really, really important.

59:54

And I was going to, sorry, I was going to open up a, you know, a graphic of this particular page.

01:00:03

It's possible, I still can. Let me look at it here.

01:00:09

Yes. Why does that show it that way?

01:00:18

Oh, good. I haven't clicked, I clicked on the right one. That's nice. I was going to show you, Oh, it happens to be right there too.

01:00:28

There it is. Yay. Five. Boom. Oh, well, why did it do that?

01:00:42

Try one more thing here. Sorry. Oh, that's not it. How about that one?

01:00:51

That's probably going to be the old Testament. Oh, well that's not working for me, but I thought,

01:01:02

Oh, good. We're, we're almost there. And then it, it, Oh, okay. I found it.

01:01:08

Nevermind me. Have to have to click on the picture part. So here is an image.

01:01:17

How do we have this? Cause I haven't had anything on the screen, the whole program. So I don't know.

01:01:27

Here is Codex Sinaiticus. All right. And right there, let me blow this up.

01:01:39

See if I can blow it up a little bit more. So yes, in fact, this is,

01:01:53

Oh, that's perfect. Perfect. Let me see if I can get it a little bit bigger here. Oh yeah. Yeah.

01:01:58

Yeah. Yeah. Good. Oh, Oh, there it is.

01:02:05

All right. See right here, this is Dikaiothentes having been justified.

01:02:15

And notice, if you look at the line of the column, that is slightly outside the line of the column.

01:02:24

See how that Delta there is slightly outside the line of the column. So normally when we talk about, and you can see it over here, over here, over here, those are the ancient paragraph divisions as understood by that particular scribe.

01:02:48

So would that necessarily be transferred into the next copy you sometimes, sometimes, but it sort of varied from, from manuscript to manuscript, but in the production of this major manuscript, there is a, so this is the end.

01:03:09

So there is raised here is 426, right up above.

01:03:23

And then here's 5 .1. So remember chapter divisions versus modern innovations.

01:03:31

We, they're not part of the ancient text, but there is a recognition of our, of a break in thought, basically that becomes a chapter division in the medieval period.

01:03:51

And then is really firmly established once verses are inserted in 1551. All right.

01:03:57

So you can see the beginning of 5 .1, here's 426.

01:04:03

And then right here is the word I want to be looking at for the, our discussion.

01:04:11

This is echomen, echomen. But please note right above the omega is a dot.

01:04:20

There is a dot right there. Okay. Now what's this all about?

01:04:27

Well, as I worked through the sermon prep for Romans 425, 426, 425 and 426,

01:04:39

I started preaching before then, I decided to preach through the paragraph division into chapter five, but I noticed that a lot of the commentary is, has been influenced by the chapter and verse divisions.

01:05:08

And the result of that is that there is a tendency not to really emphasize or see the continuation of the flow into the rest of the text and hence into chapter five.

01:05:26

Why is this important? Well, the conclusion I came to is that the use right here of this word diah, because of our justification, there's the di, that seems to be, um, let me, let me, uh, want you to drop out of that for just a second.

01:05:51

And I'm going to be, in fact, go ahead and there you go. Cause I need, that's, that's still a cordon that I'm using there.

01:05:57

Um, okay. Dikaiosun.

01:06:03

Okay. There was no dikaiosune. I was wondering where it went. Um, so the term diah you saw was used twice there.

01:06:14

A lot of the interpretations came up with a different meaning for diah in the same sentence, delivered over because of our transgressions, raised because of our justification.

01:06:30

And I personally struggle with assigning a completely different meaning to a word within the same sentence.

01:06:37

I mean, I understood the argumentation, but it seemed to me that what was being communicated was that because of the reality of the justification that has been accomplished by Christ, he is raised up to demonstrate that his demons, his resurrection demonstrates that our justification, our righteousness has been obtained.

01:07:03

It has been obtained. So what does that have to do with verse five?

01:07:09

Well, if you've read the guy who justifies, if you've, and it's interesting thing is this has never, okay.

01:07:18

I'm not going to say never, but I have no recollection. The older you get, it's better to say I have no recollection.

01:07:24

Um, the older you get, the better it's sound a little bit like Hillary Clinton. Um, I have no recollection of this ever coming up, uh, in a debate with a

01:07:36

Roman Catholic, which surprises me, but there is a famous, well -known textual variant in Romans 5 .1,

01:07:47

Romans 5 .1. And we were looking at it. I showed it to you there. And it is the reading

01:08:00

Echomen. And I showed you the, um,

01:08:08

I really wish the sidebars were easier to see right there.

01:08:15

Echomen right here.

01:08:21

And this is an omega with a dot over it. The dot indicates a variant.

01:08:28

There are actually in some early manuscripts, this is fourth century, but scribal indications, sometimes it's three dots out in the, in the margin, for example, but where the scribe is aware of the fact that there is a variant reading and this scribe chose what's called the subjunctive form of echo,

01:08:54

Echomen, first person plural, let us have, let us enjoy.

01:09:03

Whereas other manuscripts have an Omicron, Echomen, which is the indicative.

01:09:09

We have peace with God. Now I have at least a page and a half, maybe two pages, just in the

01:09:15

God who justifies in a end note, um, on this textual variant.

01:09:21

And what's interesting is there isn't a whole lot of, uh, dispute.

01:09:32

Roman Catholic exegetes generally accept the indicative at Romans 5 .1,

01:09:41

as do Protestant exegetes. What is the meaning difference?

01:09:47

Well, that's just it. Is there a meaning difference? There is a group there. There's a grammatical difference. The indicative and the subjunctive are not the same thing, but the emphasis in light of the form of Dikaiothentis, therefore having been justified by faith.

01:10:12

So that's the past tense reality. Ireinane, Echomen, Prostantheion.

01:10:21

So let's, let's get this up there again. Uh, get it big here because I want you to see this.

01:10:29

Um, here is Ireinane. Now remember, um, in maguscule text or unseal text, maguscule is actually the more technical, but you'll hear it both referred to as maguscule and unseal.

01:10:45

So it's all capital forms and you break, you can break a word at any point, basically.

01:10:54

Um, though they didn't like to like right here, Prost right here. They didn't want to just put the first letter here.

01:11:03

So there are some irregularities on this, this border. Um, but pretty much you can break a word where you need break word.

01:11:11

But, uh, by faith, peace with God, here's

01:11:18

Prostantheion and then here's Theion. Now let me just, this isn't, it doesn't have anything to do with the variant, but I just want to make sure you, we do the educational thing here.

01:11:29

Um, this is called a nomenosacra. It is a, uh, abbreviation that as far as we can tell

01:11:40

Christians invented, it is a common element in the earliest manuscripts.

01:11:48

Theion would normally be Theta Epsilon Omicron Nu, but here it's just Theta Nu with the line over top.

01:11:57

And once you see those lines, you know, you're, you're pretty, you pretty much know you're Christian manuscript, but we have

01:12:03

Prostantheion with God, peace with God through, uh, and then down here, our, our, our

01:12:13

Lord. And then you've got Jesus Christ. And again, Jesus and Christ, Jesu Christu, much abbreviated, two letters lined over top, nomenosacra again, uh, through whom also we have, uh, this, this entrance into the grace, which we stand so and so forth.

01:12:33

So if this was an indicative, that was an Omicron, it would simply be what you have in most

01:12:40

English translations. Therefore, I haven't been justified by faith. We have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

01:12:48

Ecumen is the subjunctive. And in my opinion, the subjunctive is often not taught real well in seminary level

01:13:00

Greek. Um, you can, part of it is because it does not map real cleanly to English.

01:13:12

And so we struggle a little bit with it. All right. So I'm going to bail out of this. Uh, and I'm going to go to a, um, another screen if I can find it.

01:13:25

There it is. I opened up so many there and let me close that out.

01:13:33

Let me get this. Oh, press the big button. Not the little button. All right.

01:13:40

And can I get this? Where's the go big? Okay. Get rid of the library.

01:13:50

I don't see a go big. Well, that's big enough to zoom in on, isn't it?

01:13:59

Okay. Uh, here is, uh, the textual evidence for the variant found in the

01:14:09

UBS fifth edition, uh, materials.

01:14:14

I'm really looking forward. I will be honest. I am really looking forward to having the

01:14:21

CBGM data for the Pauline epistles available. That is going to be wonderful.

01:14:27

I am concerned that most of that work has come to a grinding halt in Munster right now.

01:14:34

It probably has though. I would like to think that the scholars would still be able to be working on this stuff.

01:14:41

They don't have to go into the Institute and it's all being done in computer. I'm sure they have remote access.

01:14:48

Um, but I don't know. Anyway, I'm looking forward. The CBGM coherence -based genealogical methodology has not been applied to the

01:14:56

Pauline epistles yet in any consistent fashion anyways. Uh, so as to render the

01:15:01

ECM, the Editio Critico Mayor, uh, readings, my, I don't, gut feelings for CBGM is not a good, good thing.

01:15:12

It's not a good thing. But when you look at what's on the screen, especially from the older way of looking at variants, let's, let's look at Echelman for a second.

01:15:25

Let's look at the second because they've, they've put, now look, look at the rating they give. A. So in the

01:15:33

UBS 5th, this is, this is a slam dunk, but what that tells you is the

01:15:39

UBS 5th is doing a lot more eclectic internal reading than they are looking at manuscripts because look at the manuscripts.

01:15:50

Echelman is the original rating of Sinaiticus, which we were just looking at.

01:15:55

Unfortunately, we do not have a papyri. Evidently, uh,

01:16:01

P46 is vacant for this spot, unfortunately. Um, that would, that's too bad.

01:16:07

Um, it's the original reading of Alexandros. It's the original reading of Sinaiticus.

01:16:14

It's the original reading of CD 3381, 436, 1175, 1912.

01:16:19

It is a split in the Byzantines. Notice how you've got biz part here and biz part here.

01:16:27

So the Byzantine manuscripts are split on this. Um, so KL and P are normally together, but they're split on this.

01:16:39

The lectionaries are split. Um, the

01:16:44

Latin is primarily supporting of the subjunctive though some are not.

01:16:52

Uh, the Vulgate follows the subjunctive though some manuscripts of Vulgate do not.

01:16:58

Um, and then you've got the Latin of origin. Uh, you've got

01:17:05

Gregor of Nyssa, Chrysostom, Theodore, Cyril one of five times, and that's why

01:17:11

Cyril's up here four of five times. So once he reads the subjunctive, once he reads or four times, he reads the indicative.

01:17:23

And of course, how complete is our knowledge of the transmission of the text of Cyril over time?

01:17:30

That's really the question. Um, but you've got a Hesychius who is down in Egypt, uh,

01:17:37

Ambrosiaster, Theodoret, Julianiclonum, and Augustine reading for the, so this is a definitely an

01:17:45

Alexandrian North African reading if we want to continue to use that terminology. Um, but with Byzantine support as well.

01:17:56

So what's the earliest reading in our manuscripts? It's the subjunctive.

01:18:01

No question about it because it's the original Sinaiticus, Alexandrus, and Vaticanus. That's the earliest reading.

01:18:09

And now the indicative has 1739 and 1881, which are much later manuscripts, but we can tell they are copies of very, very early exemplars.

01:18:25

So that's a somewhat of a witness there. And of course, the difference is very, very, very small.

01:18:31

We're not talking about some major editorial issue here, but I would say simply on the external evidence that giving this an

01:18:44

A rating, A rating by the UBS is almost impossible to understand.

01:18:50

There is such a strong external witness to the subjunctive. I think part of it is because of how people assume it would read and what the theological meaning would be.

01:19:09

So having said that Jesus was raised because of our justification, therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our

01:19:22

Lord Jesus Christ. That has to be what Paul is saying. And the assumption is if he uses the subjunctive, that he's introducing doubt or hesitancy in the affirmation of the reality of having peace.

01:19:37

And the rest of the next verse itself says, through whom also we have obtained our introduction by faith into this grace in which we stand, not in which we hope to stand, but in which we are actually standing, and we exalt in the hope of glory of God.

01:19:50

So obviously the theology has to be the indicative.

01:19:56

So the reading, the theology indicates what the reading is. Well, you have to be really careful with that because the reading should be determined by the manuscripts and the consistency, not by your theology, because that can become a very vicious circle.

01:20:16

So I remember having a conversation years ago with a textual scholar.

01:20:22

I was a part of working with him in certain areas, and he brought up this text.

01:20:30

He said, I'll be honest with you, I'm on the outs, but you look at the decisions made by Munster in other texts and compare it with this one, and there's an inconsistency here.

01:20:49

There's inconsistency. We should put the subjunctive here. And as I was thinking about Romans 4 .25

01:20:58

and what it says, I came to the conclusion that we probably should too.

01:21:06

Why? Because I don't think you have to read it, the subjunctive, as a doubtful thing.

01:21:15

There is a form of the subjunctive that is exhortatory.

01:21:25

It is meant to go beyond, instead of simply saying, we have peace, because that's already been said in verse 25, really, in the sense that he was raised because of our justification.

01:21:44

His resurrection has demonstrated the reality. Christ accomplished everything the

01:21:50

Father intended to accomplish, and this is the same book that's going to go to the golden chain of redemption. This is the same text you're going to have that foreknown, predestined, called, what?

01:22:03

Justified, glorified. So, there is going to be no way to read

01:22:12

Paul in such a way that he is going, well, not sure if we have peace with God or not.

01:22:19

No, that's not what the subjunctive is going to be indicating. So, if it is exhortatory, if it is the apostle saying, look, we've been justified, and through Jesus Christ, we have this entrance into this grace in which we stand, and we exalt in the hope of the glory of God, and not only this, that results in our boasting, in tribulations, and all the rest of these things, then why couldn't

01:22:53

Paul be saying, therefore, having been justified, enjoy, live in, live out, recognize the reality of, but see it as something that is an accomplished reality, experience that peace with God, rather than just simply, it's a reality.

01:23:18

If you're going to be going through tribulation, then peace with God is something that you need to be rejoicing in and experiencing on a daily basis, on a daily basis.

01:23:31

I need to have the peace of God today, okay? When former friends are throwing you under the bus, right, left, and center, and outside the

01:23:41

United States, and everything else, the only reason I can be still sitting here and rejoicing in the

01:23:48

Lord is because I have peace with God, and it wasn't because of anything I've done.

01:23:54

And so, there would be an appropriate, proper utilization of the subjunctive in an exhortatory fashion, because the reality of the peace is not at question.

01:24:09

That's already been established firmly before and after. Is there not room for an exhortation?

01:24:19

Sometimes, we can take for granted the divine truths that are announced for us in scripture, because we've heard them so often.

01:24:32

We need to hear them turned into exhortations. So, for example, we hear the term evangelize, and we think that's just simply bringing the message to unbelievers.

01:24:48

Yet, Paul said he wanted to go to the church at Rome and evangelize them. So, there is a proper way of understanding evangelism as yes, toward the unbelievers, and yes, the repeated proclamation of the truth.

01:25:02

Tell me the old, old story, but make it something that calls me to action, calls me to doing something.

01:25:14

And so, is there a orthodox, appropriate, consistent with Paul way of reading the subjunctive at Romans 5 .1?

01:25:23

I think there is, and it's in light of the recognition he was raised because of our justification.

01:25:32

He accomplished it. He was given over because of our transgressions, had to be dealt with.

01:25:38

He's raised because of our justification. Death can no longer hold him because that righteous judgment has been made.

01:25:48

Therefore, having been justified by faith without anything we do, experience that peace with God that you have through our

01:25:59

Lord Jesus Christ. Using the same dia, same preposition dia here that was used twice in the preceding sentence, or as we were looking at in Sinaiticus within, it looks like one big long line of Greek letters, but very, very, very close.

01:26:16

So, is there any major theological ramification to reading it as a subjunctive?

01:26:26

I don't think so. No matter what you do with the subjunctive, given what comes before and after, and as long as we avoid versification.

01:26:38

What term am I going to come up here with? What is versification? Not versification, heresy.

01:26:44

Versification, short -sightedness? Versification, narrow -sightedness, narrow vision?

01:26:50

I don't know. It's almost like because that delta is just out in the margin a little bit, we forget about what came before.

01:27:05

All of a sudden, we put it over there. Let it flow straight through. And when you do, there's not going to be any way to introduce some kind of problem with a subjunctive at this point.

01:27:18

But instead, you're going to be going, okay, in light of those strong statements, is this just a continuation of strong statements?

01:27:24

Because once you get down, if you were looking, once you get down to verse 3, then, you know, where you have tribulation and things like that, you've got a hati clause, you've got exhortation going on there.

01:27:46

Could this be the start of that? I think it could. I think it could. So that's something to keep in mind.

01:27:54

But it just has always struck me that in looking at the external data, the external manuscript data, the stronger argument is for the subjunctive.

01:28:11

And those of you who are TR or Byzantine guys, hey, you can't jump up and down on this one.

01:28:19

Your manuscript tradition is divided on it. In fact, if you'll give me a second here.

01:28:34

Man, I wish these were in alphabetical order. There's probably a way to put them in alphabetical order.

01:28:43

And I don't know how to do it. But I wanted to look at, why isn't it pulling it up?

01:28:53

Well, okay. The TR reading is the indicative. That doesn't surprise me.

01:29:02

But there. Okay. The Byzantine, the

01:29:10

Rabbes and Pierpont also has the indicative, but it does show a variant right before it.

01:29:20

I can't, it's not bringing up the stuff there. So I was, let me real quick look at the majority text, which

01:29:36

I don't have in there. Yeah, it also gives the indicative, but does indicate the majority text is split at that point.

01:29:50

So. Um, so you're sort of left with an interesting situation there.

01:29:56

Hey, what am I doing? I grabbed the other, instead of grabbing my

01:30:03

Jeffrey Rice rebind, I got the other one, which is a real nice one itself. Sorry.

01:30:09

Um, let's look at the Tyndale house. This is a musical interlude.

01:30:18

Oh, that's right. If you have a Tyndale house, it's wonderful, but remember

01:30:24

Romans is not going to be where you think it is. You're going to be looking for acts going, where did

01:30:30

Romans go? They use a different canonical order. Ah, subjunctive.

01:30:37

Yep. They went with echo men instead of, yeah, look at that.

01:30:42

I had forgotten that they had done that, but the, they, they saw the same thing

01:30:48

I did. Um, I do have that in here. Uh, I don't know why I, well, because it's more fun to grab that.

01:30:54

That's, that's why. Uh, but I, I do have the, uh, Greek new

01:30:59

Testament, uh, in that form somewhere in here, but I'm probably not gonna be able to find it right now.

01:31:07

Um, but yes, it does use the, uh, the subjunctive, which is cool. So there you go.

01:31:12

Um, there is our textual variant for today. I hope that was useful to you.

01:31:17

Uh, some people really enjoy textual variant studies. Some people don't. Um, but for me, it, for me, oh, okay.

01:31:27

Can I make an application here real quick? Um, I'm just seeing how many other people,

01:31:41

I keep doing quick, quick hate mail review. Um, how many people want me to die today?

01:31:47

Um, so, uh, here's something that we all, sometimes people bring this up and, and apologists sort of bristle, but it's because there's truth.

01:32:04

Okay. Because there is truth. Um, I am going to be influenced in my textual critical decisions by the theological conflicts in which

01:32:17

I engage. Everybody will be. The unbeliever thinks that he has no problem with that.

01:32:29

The unbeliever thinks I can just simply follow the evidence wherever it goes, because I don't believe this is inspired anyways.

01:32:34

So if it makes it contradictory, see you people who believe in inerrancy, can't do text criticism. You can't, because you can't choose a text.

01:32:46

Even if your standards would be that you should, that would cause an alleged contradiction.

01:32:54

Have there been, is there a long history, a long history of Christians, including

01:33:02

Christian scribes doing exactly that? Yep.

01:33:08

That's why we have all those, um, yeah, we keep running out of brain today, but synopsis quatera, uringeliorum right here.

01:33:21

You look almost anywhere in the synopsis where you are trying to create a parallel edition.

01:33:31

And if you have a critical edition that has, you know, this has the Nessie Olin stuff down at the bottom of the page, um, you will see scribes attempting to harmonize these texts one to another in the, in the footnotes.

01:33:48

Now, very often what you'll find is a single manuscript here, single manuscript there, whatever.

01:33:55

Um, so it's not necessarily a huge effort, but there are people who are trying to do that kind of thing.

01:34:01

So there's a long history and you can document it. So there's, there's no reason to deny it. What that means is, is that we have to be especially aware of the influence that our theological positions can have and be consistent.

01:34:24

Oh, there's that word again. And there goes white again. He's talking about consistency. Yeah. You gotta be consistent.

01:34:32

Uh, consistency is vitally important. And if I were to rewrite the sections on Romans 5 .1,

01:34:41

I mean, I was primarily quoting other people. And like I said, there is a consensus, but now, especially with the

01:34:50

Tyndale house and I really liked the Tyndale house, I disagree with places, but that's what, that's what

01:34:56

I want to love about something like this. Not only is it very easy to read, drags you back into history, um, respects the early history of the text, but in major places, there's, there's a note there.

01:35:09

I can look down at the bottom. It's going to give me the indicative. I can, I can make up my mind on stuff like that. Um, but especially in light of that,

01:35:18

I would probably write that section differently today. I would edit it and I would provide more discussion of an appropriate or proper subjunctive translation.

01:35:30

I think there, if I recall, I didn't look, but I think there is a section about that as to how it could be understood, but I would probably either bring that up into the text or do something now.

01:35:44

Is that because of the fact that I was so heavily involved in doing

01:35:51

Roman Catholic apologetics at that point, that there is a danger that you could be pushed to be imbalanced because of what you're dealing with?

01:36:01

Yes, there is. There can be a danger for that. Like I said, no one ever brought it up. I never had anyone bring it up to my recollection in written correspondence debate.

01:36:12

I don't remember it ever coming up. And I think it all was sort of surprised to me, but we're all just human.

01:36:20

And as a result, we can have good motivations, but you've just got to stick to principle.

01:36:28

You've just got to try to be consistent, even when it is hurtful to do it.

01:36:33

And there are going to be people who are going to attack you for being consistent at that point. Um, that's the thing to remember.

01:36:41

I try to keep that in mind. There's another one. There's one of the places where I disagree with Tindo is

01:36:47

John 118. They have monogamous huias as the primary reading at John 118.

01:36:55

I, again, hopefully within the next two years, hopefully,

01:37:02

John will be done. CBGM is being worked at in Birmingham. Um, I'll be really interested in what the

01:37:11

CBGM data is on that reading, um, and how to interpret it.

01:37:18

But, you know, I think there's a really super, super strong argument is to be made for the appearance of theos or hotheos depending on which tradition you read at John 118.

01:37:33

Um, is that because, is that, am I checking my bias?

01:37:40

And you might say, but the cultists never checked their bias. So your standards, truth, not pragmatism, right?

01:37:51

And unfortunately amongst a lot of apologists, pragmatism ends up rearing its ugly head. Hey, the argument worked.

01:37:58

Did it? If it was not a really truthful argument, did it work? Why do we do what we do?

01:38:06

Those are some of the questions. So those are some of the questions. So it doesn't matter when we stopped this program because it didn't matter when we started this program to be very honest with you.

01:38:14

Uh, we started at 19 minutes after the hour. So there's no reason for me to have to, you know, it is lunchtime three minutes.

01:38:24

So yeah, that's true for most people. It's well past that time. So what's that?

01:38:31

No, I'm not actually. Uh, I was supposed to be writing right now. We were going to be doing this later, but, um, things came up and there was no reason that I was not going to be able to concentrate on anything or have any interest.

01:38:43

Uh, once I saw all the stuff that was being posted out there, uh, but now we can link to the response and do so in such a way that hopefully, um, well

01:38:54

I have to leave it in God's hands. Um, I believe in God's hands. Uh, it just seems like once in a while people just decide they want to go on a tear.

01:39:03

And there you go. There you go. All right. Well, thanks for listening to the program today, both the first part and the second part.

01:39:09

They could not have been more different from one another. I would imagine, uh, hopefully both parts were useful to you.

01:39:16

Uh, Lord willing, we'll be back on Thursday, not on Wednesday, but on Thursday, unless things go crazy, but we're um, we're hopefully on Thursday, um, here on the divine line.