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Good morning, I'm running a little late this morning and that's my fault. Hope you're having a good day so far. Got my coffee. I've got my Bible and hopefully I will have you shortly. Call this talk to you with you.

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So Just type me even if the prayer is not for yourself. The Lord knows who it is. You don't want to be it be in the business of Spreading rumors. That's not copyrighted. Cp emails joins us. I hope you saw the the pre message that I sent out yesterday the post.

I.

Like to put out the topic that I'm going to talk about and and the topic was As a church we should lead by doctrine and not vision. We should leave about doctrine and not vision. What does that mean. That's what I want to talk about this morning.

If you like prayer type me. Hopefully soon We will have some interaction. I would love to Have some folks ask questions talk.

Chat.

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Stick around with me for a little bit.

Good.

Morning James morning Karen. Hope you can stick around. Good to have you with us. If you would like prayer just like me if you want to chat ask questions. Type that in. Hopefully this can be more interactive, but this morning I want to talk about.

The church to be led by doctrine and not vision. As I thought about it the focus I wanted to to speak to. You pastor. You church leader. And you faithful church member sometimes. As you go throughout your week you hear things.

And. Someone someone makes a statement and. The way they formulate that statement. It's how you've been thinking. It's what you've been thinking upon. But they have really formulated that statement very concisely.

And and they formulated that statement those thoughts into it or sentence and they formulated it very well and. You're like, yeah, that's what I've been thinking. That's that's what's been on my mind.

I just didn't know how to say it or or whatnot. I Actually actually heard this.

Yesterday.

So if if all my preparation all my thoughts are not Concise and organized put together that's because I just heard this yesterday. The the The sentence was church to be led by doctrine and and I added the the last part to not vision just because That has been on my mind for a long time church How God wants us to do church?

What church should look like and and that part of it? Church will be led by doctrine. Was my thoughts were formulated in that sentence and and also As a result of those thoughts and Studies. The part that I added and not by vision Comes right along with it from my understanding.

So the person that I heard The church should be led by doctrine. I don't want them to give them credit for the But not by vision part in case they don't believe that so that that part comes from me and Hopes hope some other people will join us.

If you if you want prayer type me if you want to chat be interactive ask questions, let me know you're there Type something say hey who thinks it's gonna snow next Saturday. I Keep seeing it and then some people say no.

So, you never know. Where's the go-to verse? Where is the go-to verse? For church leadership People who who are in ministry. Where's the go-to verse and there may be others? I may be missing one. Like I said Just started formulating these thoughts yesterday after I heard that sentence.

But for me what I've always heard in the past the the go-to verse for church leadership Pastoral leadership that go-to verse is Proverbs chapter 29 verse 18 and it says where there's no vision The people are unrestrained.

This is an American Standard and It says the people are unrestrained other versions say the people perish. Where there is no vision that people are unrestrained. So Am I not contradicting scripture? I mean I just said church should be led by doctrine not vision and Here Proverbs 29 verse 18 says where where there is no vision the people are unrestrained or perish.

So what's going on. Why am I contradicting the scripture it depends on what you mean by vision.

And.

From my observation my experience people use this verse and say We've got to have vision in our church. We've got to have a vision. We've got to have something to lead us. We want our church to grow and evidence of God's blessings evidence of God's moving and working in our church is that we've got lots of people come to this church and We want we want the kingdom to grow we want this church to grow.

Don't you don't you want this church to grow? So we've got to have a vision so that we can have lots of people come to this church so that other people will come and so that we can We can have evidence That God is blessing.

God is moving in our church. So we've got to have a vision the Bible says it Proverbs 29 18 where there is no vision. The people are unrestrained people perish and to continue on what what do they mean by that?

Well You'll usually hear things like Going back to things that that I've talked about in previous videos we go back to our feelings I feel like the Lord is is leading me this way. I was planning this and then the Lord changed my mind and we're We we rely on our creativity on our our thoughts our planning our Contemplation we were like On ourselves and our feelings and what we can come up with creatively.

To formulate a vision so that we can have our staff meetings. We can meet with the church and say this is my vision for this year 2020. And this is where I feel like the Lord is is leading our church.

And this is how we're going to go in that direction. And this is how I want you to be involved. So we come up with our visions we come up with our strategies. And I vaguely remember hearing the testimony of a very popular pastor now I'm not going to say his name and Because I'll probably mess up the testimony and I don't want to misrepresent him.

So if I do I apologize. But it's something similar to this. I'm.

He.

He wanted to he felt the Lord calling. Whatever the language he used to. To start a church in in a large city and he and some um fellow workers Went to a conference and and they sat in the back. I think and I think it may have been A conference on the church.

I'm, not sure. And um If I'm not mistaken, he he said to one of his fellow workers that was there. He said next year. I'm going to be the one on that stage leading this conference. And if I'm not mistaken, I think that came true and now he has churches Everywhere.

And is that not because he has. He had a vision. He he had leadership. He had charisma. Uh, he he knew where he wanted to go where he wanted to lead the people. Yeah, I guess so.

Um.

It works. Vision strategies if you've got the right one. And if you have the right one the right vision the right strategy. And uh, I guess it can work. It can work. Well.

Um.

I guess.

I guess I do not based on based on that wisdom. And along with me and and you know smaller churches In our area and if you're a pastor if you're a faithful church member, um at a church.

Um.

That you've not seen growth in years maybe some decline. Um, maybe you're like me maybe your your vision your strategy.

Is.

Is not as good as his. Um, we we don't have the numbers to back it up. We don't have the numbers to prove it.

Um.

So.

Oh my goodness lost my train of thought, um. If if you join us. Um, even if you watch this later, um. Send a message and say hey, I watched.

Um good to see you.

Ask a question chat if you would like prayer during the week.

Um.

Send me a private message. Put a message on here. Type me. Let me know that you want prayer. So that I can pray for you today. So I can pray for you throughout the week.

Um.

It will be my privilege to do that.

So.

So the bible says Where there's no vision the people perish. The people perish. And Your church your church must Must have no vision. And the quality of your pastor. The quality of you pastor the quality of me Must be poor.

We must not be faithful enough. We must not have the the blessing of god. We must not be creative enough. Because our church is in decline.

Um.

Our our church has not seen growth so therefore We must not be called to ministry because We we cannot come up with Any kind of creative vision that people will grab onto and run with.

And.

And multiply our numbers. That's that's how we feel and that's that's that's a reality. That's how Pastors can feel. And get discouraged when they see these um mega churches multi-site churches. And they're they're booming.

They're growing. My robert.

And.

The they're just. They've just got the hand of the lord on them. Supposedly. Because they have such a wonderful pastor who has such a great vision.

And.

Somehow they made that connection.

Um.

They they were up here spiritually and. They were right where god wanted them to be and they were listening to god and they heard god and and we don't. Is that's what is that what happened is that is is that what's happening?

I apologize.

Is that what is happening?

Um.

We.

Even though. And I think we we get stuck there. We really get stuck there and the reason i'm harping on this is because. We we get stuck there. And we feel like that that is reality. The things that I just described are where people are.

And and they get stuck there and they get depressed and um, they they see the mega churches. And so they they pray for that vision they pray for that creativity to pray for the strategy.

Um.

They they contact those churches. What strategy strategy did you use? Because I can't make that connection with the lord and obviously you did.

Um And.

And when you when you're in those meetings when you when you're talking to folks this is some of the language that you'll hear and I think I may have already mentioned some of it, but you know the the lord the lord led me this way the lord spoke to me and I feel like this is what he's saying.

This is what The vision is he has for this church. Um, I was going in this direction, but the lord changed my mind. Is that how god works. Is that how we are to interpret proverbs 29 verse 18. Is that the vision.

That he's talking about because i'm saying The church will be led by doctrine and not vision. But yet proverb says where there's no vision the people are unrestrained or the people perish. It depends on what we mean by vision.

What does the author mean by vision? So we've we've got the um, what's the word i'm looking for.

The.

The common understanding. There's different phrase that I want to use. Um I can't think of it. Good morning, daniel. Um, I can't. Oh, I want to think of that word so bad. Not not common understanding.

Um.

Knowledge, um I'll think of it later. But it's not that it's not the common knowledge or common understanding that or. What I just explained is the common understanding going on in you going on in me one in pauline.

Going on in your churches going on with your pastor. That's that's why he is. Uh, that's why he's depressed sometimes that's why he's he. He's working his his brain to strategize to come up with a vision.

To do what he's got to do to get up here where these other pastors are. Where those other pastors met god. They need to be there so that they can catch his word catch his vision for for your church. So that they can multiply so they can grow.

Because don't you want your church to grow? Aren't you interested in the kingdom and you you can get that guilt trip from people. Don't you want your youth ministry to grow? We've got to do this. We've got to do this strategy.

We've got to have this vision so that your youth ministry can grow. You can get that manipulation from people. It's a hard place to be so that's that understanding of vision is Inputted or imputed into proverbs 29 verse 18.

So where there is no vision what we just discussed is. That understanding is imputed here. And when you don't have that when you don't have a vision when you don't have a good vision. When you don't have that creative vision when you don't have that.

When you're not on that level with god where you're hearing him speak and he's giving you that vision for your church. For your ministry for your youth ministry.

Hmm.

The people are unrestrained the people perish so your people are perishing because you don't have that that vision. You're not on par with these other megachurch pastors because That's where they met god and heard that heard that vision or felt his calling.

Wow.

What a weight. What a weight on your pastor's shoulders. What a weight he puts on himself. It's really crazy. It's really hard.

So, let me.

Let me lift and despite. This is what I see. And this is crazy to me too and unbelievable to me. That's that's the understanding of the word vision that we put on this text.

And.

The majority of churches out there aren't the megachurches. They're not. You have faithful ministers working day in and day out full-time part-time bi-vocational.

And.

They're seeing these megachurches. And they want what they have.

And.

Deep down they want what they have. They they want more numbers. They want more people in their peace. As a faithful minister that may not be you know your motivation, but you can't deny we all want more people in our church.

And that's that's not a wrong thing to to desire. But how we get there can be Um, but but we want more people in our church and that's fine.

Um and.

We're not doing something, right? We uh, we don't have the vision. Like I said. They must be faithful. They must be faithful. They must be doing it right. Somehow they're hearing from god and i'm not.

And the weight gets heavier and heavier. And and they're carrying that around. Um day after day year after year week after week. And then next sunday their numbers go down. And what I find unbelievable is.

What if that understanding of vision? Is wrong that we put on this verse.

And.

Then you don't have to carry that weight.

Pastor.

Church leader. Faithful church member. What if you don't have to carry that weight? On your shoulders. If if that understanding of vision is wrong, then you don't have to carry that weight. You can be relieved.

You can have joy in your ministry again. But we won't do that because we think They're doing it, right. That church is booming. They've got a mega church. They've got multi-site churches. They're doing something right.

I'm doing something wrong. Because we're not growing because we're declining. We're doing something wrong. And we cannot let that go. We can't let it go. We want to stay there. We don't want to be relieved.

We don't want to so that we can have joy in our ministry. But what if we did? Let me let me share with you.

Um.

If if you look at the greek word. And and sometimes when you look up the greek word like in this.

Um.

In this case There's multiple different definitions. Multiple ways to use. Multiple definitions to use for a word depends on the context. But one of the definitions for the word vision using the greek is an oracle.

Prophecy divine communication. That seems to line up with um our our modern understanding of uh vision or pastor. That seems to line up.

Um.

We're we're waiting for it. Divine communication from god. We won't we want to do his will so we we wait on him to listen for him for that divine communication. Where he wants us to lead our church. Where he wants us to lead his church as a good shepherd.

So so it still matches up, right? It still matches up. I don't think so. Let me share with you why I don't think so.

Because.

When I hear When i've always heard this verse used. It's only half read. And that's how we interpret so many verses. We interpret them out of context because we don't read the whole verse. We don't read the whole chapter.

We don't read the whole book. So we take it out of context. So let me read the whole verse so that we can get a true understanding of.

Uh.

What vision means if it means oracle prophecy divine communication. So the whole verse is Where there is no vision the people are unrestrained or the people perish. And here's the second half the verse.

But happy There's there's your peace your happiness your joy in ministry. But happy is he who?

Keeps.

The law.

Happy is he who keeps the law. What is the law?

An oracle.

Prophecy divine communication. That's the vision. That's doctrine.

So.

As a as a pastor as a church leader as a faithful church minister what you want to look for is Our is our church leading by doctrine. Or are we leading by this this idea of a vision. The church be led by doctrine and not vision according to the misuse verse of proverbs 29 18 Where there is no vision the people are unstrained, but happy is he who keeps the law.

The vision the oracle the divine communication the prophecy. Good morning, kelly. Good morning, todd. If you like prayer type me if you have any questions. You want to chat, um, please talk to me let me know you're there.

Um.

We're talking about the church. Should be led by doctrine and and not vision at least our modern understanding of what vision is.

Um.

Matthew 28 Jesus says go ye into all the world and make disciples teaching them To obey all that I have commanded you. Now. Now we've talked about vision. We need to know what doctrine is. Doctrine is sometimes a word that people don't don't know.

Or don't understand. So what what does doctrine mean? Doctrine simply means.

Teaching.

The teaching the doctrines are the teachings of so jesus says teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. So part of our job is to teach people the doctrines Of jesus the teachings of deep jesus.

That's how our church should be led. That's how we should lead our church. That should that's what we should follow. The church should follow the the doctrine the doctrines of the bible the doctrines of jesus.

Um.

And I got carried away because i'm trying to hurry and I because I see the time. Time has flown by. Um, but i'm just going to keep going because.

I have some time. Um.

Why do we not want to um. Why do we not want to use that definition of vision and import it into this verse? Proverbs 28 9 18. It if man. If man mystically hears from god about his the vision for the church.

Um.

Proverbs 14 12 says there's a way that seems right to a man but its end is the way of death. But this is this is what I feel. This is how I feel. The world is leading me. This is what i'm hearing from god.

He wants us to go in that direction. Is that how god communicates or is he communicating through? The law his word his doctrines his teaching. This oracle this prophecy. Or is it through you? Which is it?

Uh, psalm 118 8 or 9 it is better to take refuge in the lord than to trust in man. It is better to take refuge in the lord than to trust in princes. Matthew 15 14. Let them alone. They are blind to guides.

Um, if the blind lead the blind both will fall into a pit. Matthew 15 9 in vain. They worship me teaching as doctrines the commandments of men. Second john 1 9 everyone who does. Everyone who goes on ahead and does not abide in the teaching of christ.

Does not have god. Whoever abides in the teaching. Has both the father and the son. This is essential. To be saved. We've got to know jesus. We've got to know the right jesus.

Um.

If you're not describing the right jesus you're not worshiping the the right god. Jesus could be whoever you describe him to be. Um, but if if he is not who the bible says he is then you're not worshiping the right jesus.

You are not calling out for salvation to the right. Jesus and that is what second john 1 9 is saying. If you don't if you do not abide and have the right teaching of jesus. Then you do not have god. Whoever abides in the teaching has both the father and the son.

So you've got to have the right teachings and abide in those teachings of of jesus. To have god and have the son. That's why leading with doctrine is so important. That's all we must obey. Matthew 28 go into all the world made disciples teaching them to obey all that I commanded you.

So that we know who god is so we know that we're worshiping the right god.

Not.

Following the the vision of men. But following the divine communication of god, which is found in scripture. So that we know that we're worshiping the right god.

Um.

There's there's practical application. Uh, first corinthians 1 10 through 13, um, there was there was division in the church. And he says some of you say I follow paul some of you say I follow apollo some of you say I follow cephas.

There was division. And when there's there's not a leading by doctrine in the church. You're going to have division in the church. Division that you don't even know of because we don't talk about doctrine.

We don't talk about the teachings of jesus in the bible.

Um our.

Our churches sometimes are so shallow in our understanding of scriptures. We don't talk about scripture. We don't. We don't know the doctrines of jesus and and we're not teaching them. And there's divisions in the church that we don't even know of.

And paul says I appeal to you brothers by the name of our lord. Jesus christ that all of you agree. And that there be no divisions among you. So we're looking for that unity and doctrine. Unity and teaching.

Uh, not unity in in this pastor who has this vision. Uh, not following paul. Not following cephas. Not following apostle I mean apollos. But following christ and his teaching. We don't need to come up with some vision each year.

Um.

We don't need to feel depressed.

When.

We don't feel creative enough. When our church is not booming and our seats are not being filled like that church. Because they must have it all together and they must have that right relationship with god.

Because they heard the right strategy from god. Our vision Is god's law. Our vision is god's doctrines the teachings of jesus. So we we want unity in the church. We need to be teaching from the pulpit from our sunday school classes from our other classes.

From our communication our fellowship our talk amongst each other wherever we meet together. Whether it's simple communication conversation or whether it's from the pulpit the sunday school class wherever it is.

We want to be talking about doctrine. The the teachings of jesus who he is who god is. And and that's where we find unity around that. Are we going to have disagreements? Yeah. But we study the scriptures.

To get to an agreement to get to agreement because god doesn't change god is not schizophrenic. There's not there's not this understanding of who god is that's right and this understanding of who god is that's right.

God. God teaches us who he is. And he's not schizophrenic he doesn't have two personalities. He is he is this way according to scripture I've got it. We've got to be humble enough to say that i've got it wrong.

Or he's got it wrong. I've got it right or he's got it, right? Let's talk about it. Scripture calls us to that unity.

Um.

There's also a verse and it just hit me, uh, but I can't think of the reference. Um it says they went out from us because uh, they weren't Among us they were never among us. And why did they go out from us?

Um.

Because.

We were we were teaching christ. We were trying to um, To follow the word of god. And they weren't interested in that.

Um.

And I need to look up that reference so that I get My explanation, right, so I apologize. So we'll leave that verse. Um, what's another practical reason why we need to stick to um. Our vision being the law of god Understanding it that way in proverbs 29 18.

Um.

That's where you want your pastor to be. A lot of times we hire pastors because of They. They sound good in the interview. They sound good behind the pulpit and also.

Um.

Worldly wisdom, I think is. Possibly the word phrase I was thinking of earlier, but they have they have the wisdom of today, um contemporary wisdom. That says this is how you grow a church. This is how you build a church.

I was an associate pastor at this mega church, and I know how to grow a church. Um, i've been in communication with this mega church, I know how to grow a church. So, um, you like what they have to say.

They speak very well in the pulpit. Um, They they say all the right things. They they have a good strategy for the church. They have a good vision for the church. So there's there's so many reasons why um.

We wanted pamela. There's so many reasons why we hire pastors.

Um.

But I think we look at the wrong things because we've not been trained we've left doctrine in the church and so now we're. We rely on ourselves. To know what we want in a pastor. We wanted a pastor. Someone that can lead us to look like this other church.

Instead of.

Excuse me, uh pastor. What do you believe about this? What do you believe about this?

Because.

This is extremely important. This is extremely important. And I I wish everyone knew this would remember this even even with my dear friends who who I agree with that preach. Expositionally they go verse by verse that explain the text.

Even.

With with those type of pastors When they preach a text They are going to teach that text based on Their beliefs about other doctrines about other teachings their understanding of that text is going to come from Their understanding of other doctrines other teachings.

So.

This verse that they're reading from that they're preaching from may not have anything to do with this subject over here. But his subject over here is going to influence how he understands this verse.

And.

And then he's going to present it that way to his congregation. How will you know what he's presenting to you unless you know what your pastor believes? We want to know what our pastors believe. We want to know what we believe.

So that we know that we're we're being led in the right direction so that we know that there's unity. Come on Trent.

Um.

Um, so instead of looking for a pastor that that Has an association with with a church that Looks like it's got it all together and is doing things, right? When you're looking for a pastor Find out what he believes because what he believes is going to influence how he teaches the bible.

How he's going to look at every verse.

So we.

First we want to we want our churches want to be led by doctrine and not vision from proverbs 29. Verse 8 because it's it's from scripture a right understanding of that verse and then there's practical application unity in the church.

Unity.

Um.

In the teaching of the pastor. And and what he's teaching us and um. And then it helps us. When when we're filled with with god who he is and. And when we're in our communications outside of the church outside of the four walls of the church um, we know what to say.

We know. We know how to present our god who jesus is and and what he teaches and um. We we don't have to shy away from from that communication from that evangelism.

Um.

Because we know who jesus is from his teachings from his doctrine. There's so much more that I could say about this, but i've gone longer than I normally go. If you have any corrections if you have any comments if you have any questions, um, I hope that you will message me.

Type me.

Um.

Pastor church leader faithful church member. Um relieve yourself Of the stress and the depression of Not That we put on ourselves. That's not real because we're not doing church like they do it and we're not booming like they are.

And we're not filling our pews like they do because they must be More spiritual than I am closer what they must be smarter than I am. I'm, not as qualified as a pastor as he is because look at our two different churches.

Relieve yourself of that. Look at proverbs 29 verse 18. The vision That god wants us to have for his church is his law his oracle his prophecy his divine communication. Which is his word? Lead your church By his word.

And you will be faithful and you'll find joy in your ministry and you'll be.

Teaching.

People the right jesus you'll be teaching them the right way. You'll be leading them to god the way god wants you to. No matter what happens We will be obeying god and being faithful to him. And if you do not know the lord If um.