David Platt Documentary: Part 1

The Opening Accusations and the Cry for Accountability

Hey Pastors, I'm Kevin Eazell, President of the North America Mission Board, here with my good friend David Platt, President of the International Mission Board. And we are here to serve you and your church.

I have failed to act as I ought on the issue of racism.

And I would actually like to make a motion for David's dismissal and removal based on gross violations of Article 9 of the Constitution.

This is not the forum. Hear him out. It is. Give it to me. Turn on his mic. Turn on the mic. Why are you silencing him? There's nothing going on behind the scenes. There's no attempt to. I know we don't all know each other really well.

All I want are the minutes from the last meeting. I'm trying to understand what's changed. We're ending the meeting. Everybody work, work, work. Where are the elders?

Where is David Platt? Where are the elders? Why did they all run away? I see drop balls. Drop balls. Drop balls. All over the place. Be careful. Don't treat sin like it's no big deal. And whatever you do, don't try to hide it.

Don't pretend like it's not there. Sin thrives in secret. And sin will not remain secret.

Victim Impact, Church Hurt, and the Loss of Trust

Dear David, I'm writing this victim impact statement to you because you are lead pastor of McLean Bible Church. Typically a victim impact statement allows the person affected by a crime to address the court during the sentencing process.

Written from the victim's point of view, it facilitates their own emotional recovery from the direct trauma suffered by them and or their loved ones. Although we're not in that sentencing process, I want to be sure you understand the crime of emotional trauma you've committed against me personally through the hijacking of McLean Bible Church.

I'm not merely a name on the MBC membership rolls. I'm more than a unique identifier on one of your open ballots. Even though you may know my name or might even recognize me by sight, you don't know who I am.

I'm a real living person.

When David Platt came to the church, I didn't know much about him.

We didn't think that there was anything up, but we didn't really understand some of his connections and who he was in SBC. He's a very charismatic guy. If he was running for office the first time you meet him, you feel like you want to vote for him like right away.

I've seen him dodge questions, deflect questions. I've seen him run away, like literally run away.

He's a great actor. He gave Romans 8 word for word, and boy, it was impressive. It was quite a performance.

Sunday was always my happiest day of the week. I served in more ministries than I can remember. I was on staff twice. The joy that I felt through MBC has evaporated and been replaced by righteous anger, trepidation, and vast sorrow.

MBC is supposed to be my safe place. You've stolen that from me with your lies, gaslighting, and sceptrefuge. It feels like you came as a thief in the night, bent on destruction, but you have not succeeded.

You've been derelict in your duties, and you should be ashamed of yourself, as should the rest of the elders. And you will have to answer for all of this, but not to me. You will have to answer to the Lord.

You are likely surprised. I do not write this in anger. I write in tears for what I've lost. It's a pain that's palpable. I pray daily for all of you, for repentance and restoration to the Lord and the family of God.

May he have mercy on you. Carolyn Hyben, 25-year McLean Bible Church member.

My name is Jeremiah Burke. This is my wife, Laura. We started attending McLean Bible Church in 2005. We became members in 2015, raised our family in this church, and actually moved to the area for this church.

I was actually saved at McLean Bible Church. I heard a sermon from Lon Solomon on God's unconditional love, and that was it. There was no going back. So, Abby and I became members in 2015, began attending McLean Bible Church regularly around 2010.

It was a great experience. I think the young adult ministry, we enjoyed being a part of and volunteering there.

I've been attending McLean since 2004, approximately. Pretty much ever since 2008, I was serving in some capacity. And we grew, my husband and I, in our relationship with God and had lots of ways to serve.

And that's what we loved about the church, because it had so many great ministries.

I grew up in a completely Jewish household, but I never felt a true connection and the humility of Jesus Christ. I ended up in the evening service at McLean Bible.

I had just graduated from law school. I heard Lon Solomon through his radio ministry. He would talk about the evidence for Christ. That resonated with me because I had been trained to examine the facts.

I eventually went to McLean, joining the men's discipleship ministry, to try to expedite this explanation. Eventually, I met my wife.

I'm very grateful for McLean Bible. So much happened there.

Lon Solomon's Ministry and the Church's Early Growth

Pastor Lon Solomon is now the pastor of a mega church with thousands of members in McLean, Virginia, just outside Washington, D .C. The church sponsors Bible study groups on Capitol Hill and throughout the federal government, an inner-city ministry in southeast Washington credited with helping teenagers avoid drugs and violence, a clothing ministry center for disabled children, and support groups for divorced and abused women.

Doing the Lord's work, says Lon Solomon, is not for the glory seekers. You see, God's not looking for big shots. God doesn't need prima donnas. God is not interested in divas. The kingdom of God always has moved forward, and the kingdom of God always will move forward on the backs of men and women for whom no job is too menial if the Lord asks them to do it.

Men and women for whom no sacrifice is too great if the Lord asks them to do it.

I came to McLean, and immediately the Spirit of the Lord spoke to me, and I said, okay, this is my church home. I volunteered to teach first grade boys and girls. Twenty-four years later, I was still teaching, committed to partnering with those parents in the spiritual development of their kids.

2012, my son said, Dad, why don't you come to church? This guy Lon really, he teaches a lot of history, teaches a lot of things. I said, well, okay, nothing else is working. And the very first sermon I heard from Lon was on Isaiah 36, 37, Battle of Jerusalem.

It had a profound impact on me archaeologically, because I said, these are real stories. And then one cold, dark night in my garage, I had a long talk with Jesus, gave my life to Christ, and boom. It's amazing what the Holy Spirit will do even in one week.

Those chains were gone. I just started absorbing all this and trying to learn. And then I got into the position where I was helping to run the security teams through training and everything else with Lon and upping the ante on that.

My first visit to McLean was in the summer of 1983. I've defended the Christian faith for 20 years, both as a volunteer and professionally. I'm a scientist and engineer in biomolecular physics. And I always felt welcomed at McLean because Lon Solomon became a Christian in part because of the study of enzymes in the cell.

He went from being a Jewish atheist to one who believed in God. And a few years later, he became a Christian. So I felt kind of a big welcome coming to McLean Bible to be able to give teaching there. I have a lot of friends there from years past.

It was always a wonderful experience, up until around the time of David Platt. We started attending when our family was going through a big time crisis. That was about 20 years ago. And it was just an amazing transformation, and we just felt like we found our home there.

My wife and I began in 1975, and it was a small rural church. And we were involved in many different levels. I served in some leadership positions there up until the time when Lon Solomon was asked to come and be the pastor.

I was privileged to be on the committee that called him. I've served in pretty much every position in the church, treasurer for a while, youth ministry for over 20 years, elder. When it came time to find a new location, I actually wrote the contract for the new building and the new property on my living room floor.

My name is Michael Russell Lynch, 27 years, United States Navy. We've been at McLean since 2002. My wife and I were the leaders, or still are the leaders, of Discovering the Word, which is a main community group there that was at McLean, not anymore.

I just immediately loved the church. I visited the church one time, and I didn't even visit any other ones when I moved to the D .C. area, because I just loved it. It was just so vibrant.

My name is Pam Guerin. My family, in 1961, the Wilsons, moved from Beckley, West Virginia, to McLean, Virginia, and found McLean Bible Church. As a child in particular, I loved it. You know, all my friends were there.

We were taught the Word, and it was just a wonderful experience. I was actually led to the Lord by one of the founding members, Betty Wright.

My name is Chuck Wright, and I was at the very first church service of McLean Bible Church. My mom, Betty Wright, was very instrumental in starting the church. At the time, I was a junior at McLean High School, and JFK was president.

We had no idea back then when we first met in that elementary school cafeteria on Chesterbrook Road, with only 25 people in attendance, that the church would eventually grow exponentially into a megachurch by the 21st century.

My name is Craig Pru. I was an elder a little over 25 years, so I have an immense respect and an immense awe for McLean and Long and what God had done there. I can't put that into words. So when I think about it now, I feel like some of the prophets in the Old Testament.

They look over at Israel, and they just shake their heads, and they cry. I feel somewhat maybe the same way. I just, oh, what is going on there? It's not good. David Platt had a different mission he wanted for the church.

I know as a white pastor, I am part of the problem. I do not want to speak from the Bible on issues that are popular among white followers of Christ while staying silent in the Bible on issues that are important to non-white followers of Christ.

That's not a faithful pastor.

I was seeing things that bothered me, that concerned me.

We started to see the implementation of some of these DEI principles. I think David Platt is weak. I think that David Platt is a coward. He is a false teacher.

He is a wolf. He is a liar. We'd been lied to from the pulpit. We were lied to from David Platt.

There's no doubt about it, he's in it for the money.

And in so many ways, my world has been so white. But I look around at my country, it's not so white. So why is my world so white? Why have the churches I've been a part of and led in been so white?

The founders wanted McLean Bible to be an evangelistic outreach for Christ in the Washington, D .C. area. So the simplicity of this founding formula brought about incredible growth with attendance starting at 26 people in 1961 all the way up until 2017 when there were well over 13 ,000 people per week in attendance every Sunday at McLean Bible Church under the ministry of Lon Solomon.

We have a patriotic service every July 4th weekend. Without apology, we've got some wonderful songs that thank God for this wonderful country, America. So I want you to enjoy singing them. Let's stand together and start with my country, Tis of Thee.

Here we go.

Let's sing together. He had led the church for 30 years, was loved by its congregation.

I'm a Jewish person who believes Jesus is the Messiah. Don't you let these people teach you a myth out there. Forget dialogue. The word doesn't even appear in the Bible. You understand what I'm saying?

God didn't call us to dialogue the world. God called us to reach the world for Jesus Christ. Don't you go out there and dialogue.

You go out there and preach Christ. And the board and Lon, we had a very good relationship. Lon realized, I think, very early that we appreciated him and that we would go the extra mile for him. Even if he messed up, he's not perfect.

Nobody's perfect. There's no perfect church. We had Lon's back. I just could see. From the early 80s up until the time I got on the board, I could see God using Lon in immense ways.

I look back 45 years now and I see how the Lord led me here to McLean Bible Church, a little tiny church in a little tiny yellow brick building with a couple of hundred people. And now I look around, God took those meager beginnings and has turned McLean Bible Church into the 21st largest church in America.

The largest church on the East Coast between Charlotte and the North Pole.

You know, some people are skeptical about megachurches, but I just never felt that way at our church. It was so easy to get plugged into people and the people were just so warm and welcoming and it wasn't fake.

As far as the Bible is concerned, we only taught the Bible.

And they modeled Christian community for me. It was so vibrant and there was so much joy before.

But then something happened that changed all of this.

David Platt's New Mission and the CRT Controversy

Just imagine leading churches to multiplied churches. Alright, we're going to make disciples, we're going to multiply churches, don't we want to be a part of that here?

When David came on board, it didn't take long for people to realize, wait a minute, we're not getting the same teaching as we did with Lon.

And the first sets of sermons did have some decent theological meat in them. But now, I've watched his sermons, he wouldn't get past a hermeneutics 101 class. They're horrible. You know, he draws pictures and things on his tablet.

Like, really? We're not getting this exegesis, we're not getting this expository preaching. David was teaching essentially CRT. What he said was that the whites were privileged, first of all. When I was walking out of the parking lot one day, a group of four black gentlemen said, Craig, would you mind giving David Platt a message?

And I said, no. And this older black gentleman, he put his finger in my face and he says, tell David to stop it. I go, stop what? He goes, there's nothing wrong with the white people in the church. He said, we love this church.

He says, and you tell him to stop it right now because you're dividing us. And I said, okay. I said, I will tell him. Well, the next elders meeting, I said, David, I said, I had a couple of African-American gentlemen, very devout Christians.

They asked me to tell you to stop it. David goes, stop what? And I said, stop dividing us. What really stunned me, he looked at me and he went back and sat down. Didn't say a thing to me. That really had an effect on me.

I'm thinking, he can't even give me an answer. I don't know what his thought was.

That's what happened. It felt like we were being told because we were white, we were racist. Now, I don't believe I have a racist bone in my body. It was so devastating to hear. And I kept thinking, well, I must be misunderstanding.

He said, you're guilty of not exactly racism, but racialism, I think, racialization. And I never heard that before. Then I started rethinking, gosh, I thought I loved everybody.

David Platt had said, well, yes, McLean is diverse, but it doesn't have the right kind of diversity. It's not good enough to be biblically impartial because that in itself is racism.

One of the members in our small group had brought up something in the SBC with resolution nine that got passed. I move that the convention adopt resolution number nine on critical race theory and intersectionality.

Resolution nine was to introduce critical race theory to be used as an analytical tool to inform preaching, teaching. What does that mean for McLean Bible Church? Why does it affect us? We started to see that kind of come out during the course that David taught.

He wanted to reprogram the members in the church leadership. And I use that word very carefully. He wanted a reprogramming. So he put together this class called the Gospel, the Church, Justice, and Race.

And he gave that to the elders to take a look at. And we said to David, David, this isn't good. This is very mild, subtle CRT. There were some problems there. David Platt had said that, no, we've got nothing to do with CRT, and just gaslighting a woman who was asking her questions about it.

Because I'd seen evidence for it, it was very, very clear during the class.

The language of oppression is not worldly language. It is biblical language.

He said, we've got nothing to do with critical race theory. And I'm glad to hear that, but I fear that the congregation doesn't understand what is critical race theory. I would kind of appreciate you actually defining the terms that you have used.

We reject critical race theory.

That's a great question that I don't think we're going to be able to dive in-depth into tonight. Like, an examination of critical race theory would definitely take a long time, and there would be a definition of words and phrases throughout that conversation.

Because you could ask ten different people what critical race theory means, and you'd have ten different definitions.

We took this discipleship class that David was leading. I found myself questioning all the things that I had learned about the gospel, and what is salvation, when you start to introduce things like corporate repentance because of the color of your skin, or accepting that the tenets of critical race theory, it really kind of caused confusion for me.

But I would point you to the latest draft of the discipleship resource on the gospel and the church and justice and race.

My concern starts with class. The class didn't start with the Bible. The class started with, divided by faith, and the book is critical race theory. So I am concerned.

Thank you. Sure thing. Thanks again for sharing that. And please send feedback on, I would not endorse everything divided by faith says, but I would endorse everything the Bible says, to the extent to which you have any feedback on that document that's intended to represent the Bible.

Please send that in.

So, alright. They're very good at question deflection.

I loved the church. I loved our pastors. I thought they left me back, and they didn't.

If you look at David Platt's legacy at McLean Bible Church, from a spiritual sense, it's carnage. That's all it is.

It's an absolute bloodbath. That's all he's left. David Platt did not act alone. I mean, how did he even get to the church?

Behind-the-Scenes Takeover and the SBC Partnership

Now I want you guys to notice something, and those of you who know Lon will especially appreciate this. He has no microphone tonight. Do you get that? No microphone. He can't. You know how much he wants a mic right now, right?

This is killing him. He just wants to clean up what I'm doing. Dale, if you'd said it this way, it'd be a little better. Yeah. You did. No, you did great. I did okay? Alright, good, good, good. Alright.

Let me pray for Lon.

Let's all pray together. Okay. We had been used to the protection of our shepherds, of the elders, and so we thought that was good enough.

There was stuff going on behind the scenes that the elders didn't know about.

Lon Solomon stated in late 2016 that he had no intentions of ever leaving McLean Bible Church. David Platt was inserted in September of 2017, and by 2018, Lon Solomon, a Jewish follower of Christ, was gone from NBC, never to set foot in the church ever again.

This wasn't an amicable separation by any stretch, and the whole takeover by the Southern Baptist Convention and David Platt was full of lies and corruption.

Dale Sutherland worked behind the scenes with the SBC leadership and the IMB to move towards selecting David Platt as the new senior pastor at NBC. When Lon left, very abruptly, Dale Sutherland took over, pushing David Platt here big time.

I started in asking David some questions, and Larry and Dale said, Craig, stop. That's not what we're here for. We're just here to have a nice conversation with David. And I thought, what? I want to know, David, where's your heart?

Where do you stand on this? What are you going to do when you get up to McLean? If you get up to McLean, what are you going to do? And I could not ask those questions. Well, why don't you tell me what this is?

I don't know. Have you seen this before? Not that I remember, but does that mean I never saw some document before years ago? Well, of course I could if I don't. The third page, do you see that? Go ahead, sign it.

I was going to say, isn't that your signature? It sure is. Okay. So having said all that, what is this that we're looking at? It's a partnership form. Yeah, a partnership form between the Southern Baptist Conservatives of Virginia, the SBC of VA, and McLean Bible Church.

I saw this with his signature on it for the application. The other thing I noticed on this application was the date that Elder vote for partnership, 3 -23 -16. We never voted on it. If this would have ever came up, all of us Elders, I think, would have questioned this.

But, see, we never knew about this.

We never knew about this. This is discovery document 2517. David Platt writes to Dale Sutherland, We obviously need to sit down soon and come up with a comprehensive plan for this moving forward. In the meantime, I'd say to tell Brian that McLean will, as he mentioned, send its contributions to SBC Ministries through SBCV.

Who are the Southern Baptist Conservatives of Virginia? Sorry, I don't understand that. I'm not a lawyer.

And if it would be possible, it'd be great if we could send a check from McLean to SBCV right now with no designation of how to use it, i .e. simply to the cooperative program. What was the cooperative program?

I don't know. Is there money anywhere in the budget that we could use to give a decent amount right now, i .e. before October 3rd? Maybe we even use some of the money that was designated for my honorariums.

Let me know an amount that might be possible. Thanks, man. David. Why is he directing the flow of money before he's even voted in?

You can see that things were put in motion. The elders were not aware of any of this money that David was asking for.

Dale Sutherland is advising David Platt in an email titled, Dinner with Lon. Advice. Sorry to bug you with another email. I was thinking about your dinner with Lon and thought I might prepare you a little.

Lon will be very interested in all you have to say. Don't get drawn into making a choice for him right now. He will hope to get you to say that you're open to doing the job he is leaving. However, he will want you to do nothing else.

My thought is to tell him just where you are, you are open to wherever the Lord leads. Remember, he doesn't understand the IMB or the SBC, so he doesn't know the impact of the decision.

The way I read that is Dale had to be careful how he needed to word that. Don't let Lon know what we're actually doing, right?

I mean, that's clear and simple. Later down in that email, he also tells him to clarify our relationship with the SBC as a partner church to the congregation. In parentheses, not even the elders understand the real impact of the partnership we already have as an SBC church.

It definitely did not become a Southern Baptist church. Join is not the word we would use.

Not even the elders understand the real impact of the partnership as an SBC church. Do you see that? Yes, sir. Who are you describing as an SBC church? Yeah, McLean at that point. We did not understand it, and we never did, I don't think, what the SBC saw us compared to how we see us.

We see us, Lon and I and everybody, we saw us as a partner, like we were a partnership with lots of other ministries. We didn't really see it as a denomination. And he was getting all this pressure from the SBC saying these guys aren't SBC enough because we never went to any SBC things.

We didn't do anything with them.

So the discussion was, you know, are they becoming a Southern Baptist church? No. Not by any stretch of the imagination are they doing that.

Do you know whether or not McLean Bible Church ever sent a messenger to the Southern Baptist Convention?

The answer is I don't know for certain. The McLean Bible Church, located at 8925 Leesburg Pike, Vienna, Virginia, 22182, has elected David Platt, a messenger to the Southern Baptist Convention. This appointment is made on the basis of and in agreement with the Convention's constitutional requirement.

This church is entitled to seven messengers. Our church elected two messengers. In this one specific email to Heather Platt, it's also stated the same way to David, McLean Bible Church has elected Heather Platt, a messenger to the Southern Baptist Convention.

We are members of the SBC.

Again, it sounds difficult to explain, and it is.

There was no vetting of David, none whatsoever, really. It was rush, rush, rush, push, push, push, get him in there. I was a lone gentleman who said no. I was a lone elder who said no. And Larry had to work me over good.

And Larry's good at working you over. He really is. And he said, Craig, I know you don't want to do this, but you got to do it. We got a chance to get a celebrity pastor in here, and I gave in. I admit, you know, I was wrong.

I was wrong. I apologize. But I went along with the board, and then the congregation overwhelmingly, you know, voted yes for David, and he was in. There's a humble side to David, but David knew how to use that celebrity humbleness of his to his advantage, and he did.

He could get what he wanted because he was David Platt. The staff who wasn't with him, he got rid of or made it so uncomfortable that a lot of the good staff left. When you have all these proxies in place, and that's what they did.

They got rid of the old guard. Everybody, gone. And put in his new guard. David Platt's proxies are running everything now in the church.

The pastoral staff. Nate Reed, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. Todd Peters, Southwest Baptist University. Britton Taylor, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary. Eric Saunders, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary.

Mike Kelsey, the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary. Joe Carter, Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. And David Platt, New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary. Every single pastor on staff is a graduate of a Southern Baptist Seminary, except for Wade Burnett.

Wade is basically just a low-budget street attorney that David brought on. He has no theological training. But he is from Nashville, which is where the SBC is headquartered.

I was just starting my doctoral work, and I had written a couple of emails to his executive assistant. Can I come in and talk to David? I just want to know what would I expect in this doctoral program?

Can I just talk? Nope, he doesn't have time for you. Sent it two or three times, I said, really? I mean, I am a doctoral student. I'm one of his congregation. I've given countless hours to personal security details and everything else.

I'd just like 20 minutes with him to know what should I expect during the dissertation. And can I run some things past you with apologetics? Nope, wouldn't give me the time of day. And I really said, okay, well, maybe the guy's busy, etc.

And I didn't really give it any thought at the time. I was disappointed. During the dissertation, it's a doctor of educational ministry, and so the educational portion requires a lot of quantitative survey work and then actually teaching and writing formats.

I asked Dale and I asked David, hey, can you guys help me out with this? I need to get surveys from the congregation on what is their apologetics knowledge. Could I come up and take David's sermons, write an apologetics piece of it going back to archaeology, science, manuscript evidence, etc.?

Nope, he doesn't have time for you. I'm trying to further myself in the Lord, further myself for the congregation. And you're not even, you guys can't even talk to me for five minutes? That's very, very curious to me.

And I don't think they wanted, especially someone with my background, in that inner circle to know anything. It seemed to me then that he was very, very far removed. So I started to ask him some questions.

I said, you know, does David do any pastoring? Does he have office calls? No, he's here just to teach. There is no counseling. There is no pastoral care, shall we say. So fast forward, a job came open for director of training and education.

I said, oh, cool. Applied twice. Nope. We're looking at other resumes. Okay. Who did they end up hiring? A guy who had given a substantial amount of money to the church, had made friends with David Platt at one of the campuses, had never taught a class before in his life.

And one day we saw him walking around talking to all the ministries, snooping around looking for money. And he came to us and he was looking for money. He said, how much money do you guys have? I go, well, why do you need to know that?

And this was the start of the destruction of all the ministries.

David Platt said, we got David Young coming in. I said, give me a job description. They couldn't come up with a job description. You can't come up with a job description? You know, I used to manage 500, 600, 700 people under me in a corporation.

I had people all around the United States in 13 different offices. I will let you hire that person, I will give you the money, but give me a job description. I want to know what value that they are going to bring.

They couldn't do that.

No matter how long we've been in the church, a little while or a long while, we all lay down our preferences, plans, desires, and we ask, God, how can we most faithfully and effectively glorify you by making disciples and multiplying churches?

I want to introduce you to Dave Young, who, long story short, was very successful in business, quite frankly, made a lot of money building and consulting businesses, and I have asked Dave to come alongside me and use his gifts.

The brother is brilliant to lead out in how this mission plays out across our church. The best thing I can say about this brother is that, yes, he's brilliant, he's extremely gifted, but far more important, he loves Jesus.

He walks with God. And I asked him to shoot a quick video introducing himself, and this is what he sent me.

Hey, guys. David asked me to send over a video, so I thought I'd say hi on my way over to Penn Station. Whoa, don't want to get hit by this car. We are seeing some amazing things happening at NBC today, and some peace is falling into place that make me think, man, NBC's best years of ministry feel like they're in front of us and not behind us.

And that is cool to think about. The initial claim was we need to make some shifts. David Young was put in charge of this by David Platt, and even at the meeting, David Platt was there and did some of the speaking himself.

Most groups are shallow Bible studies, just social community. These groups are unhealthy. Many pastors are uncomfortable sending new people into an NBC group. The whole point was, Dave Young was saying, let's go from a menu of ministries to this map.

They called it menu to map. We don't need this many ministries, this many kinds of ministries. We just need a few good ones that everyone can do.

I'm here to say that I am really looking forward to being in McLean Bible Church with you guys, and I think it's going to be so much fun, and undoubtedly a few bumps along the way.

It's okay to slash all these ministries and stop supporting them.

Maybe a U-turn or two, but so good for sure.

So that's Dave Young risking his life to see this mission accomplished at NBC.

We looked at each other as small group leaders, and we feel really insignificant. Are we being told that our ministries are problematic, that they are not healthy, that they are shallow?

We need to change the way we're thinking about church.

And David tried in elders' meetings to have us give up our elder control and authority of how the money was spent. David wanted to say, this is how we're going to spend the money, and you're just going to have to kind of go along with it.