Will There Be Introverts in Heaven?

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I mean, I know of guys who They come home after their long day of work and they just ignore their family for like three hours or something

00:09

Because they're they've had enough, you know And I know of women who like will literally just by the time that their husband gets home

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They're like i'm done with it. I'm out of here. You watch the kids do dinner do everything else.

00:24

I need my me time You know kind of thing i've been around people all day i'm frazzled or whatever and it's just like So so then when you're challenging this idea, you're you're really just kind of poking at this thing about them

00:36

It really does need to change Morning, the following message may be offensive to some audiences

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01:19

The issue is that humanity is in sin and the wrath of almighty god is

01:27

Hanging over our heads. They will hear his words They will not act upon them and when the floods of divine judgment when the fires of wrath come

01:37

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01:43

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01:56

Jesus is saying there is a group of people who will hear his words They will act upon them and when the floods of divine judgment come in that final day their house will stand

02:09

Welcome to bible bash where we aim to equip the saints for the works of ministry by answering the questions.

02:15

You're not allowed to ask We're your host harrison kerrigan pastor tim mullett and today we'll answer the age -old question

02:21

Will introverts be in heaven? So tim, what what are your thoughts on this question if you just had to give an answer right off the riff?

02:30

Well, if someone asks you will introverts get into heaven, what's your what's your answer to them?

02:36

Yeah, I mean it's easier for a camel to go into an eye of a needle than for an introvert to go to heaven So there you go

02:44

Is that is that what is that what it says in the bible That's clearly the right answer but uh, it's clearly the right and you're a pair we're paraphrasing there's a rough rough paraphrase

02:56

A rough paraphrase. I feel like I feel like it's a the verse is slightly different than that. But um

03:02

Yeah, so so okay so your answer is essentially no then I assume yeah, it's funny

03:08

Yeah, I think when I asked this question online, I asked it in more of a neutral way So I asked it.

03:14

I mean I asked something along the lines of will there be introverted personality types in heaven? And many people did they they heard it the way you asked it they heard it as basically saying that all introverts are going to hell even though I Tried to be as specific as possible.

03:29

So, you know If you if if uh, if they're going to misunderstand no matter what then just just you know

03:35

Word it in a way that lets them I guess but um Yeah, I I think it's um,

03:42

I think it's one of those things where When you think about the nature of the question that's being asked, you know

03:49

We're not really trying to discuss whether or not there are people who now identify themselves as having introverted personality types

03:56

Who will go to heaven? The question is is like introversion In the sense in which it's popularly understood.

04:04

Is that Psychological label is that something that it that represents a problem that will be resolved in the afterlife essentially

04:11

So that's that's the question that we're discussing So in other words like will like in heaven where there'll be will there be people who are appropriately?

04:21

identified By this label like introverted essentially That makes sense

04:26

So is is it a problem to resolve and it's yeah, I mean it really is a touchy topic

04:33

Uh, particularly when you when you go after introverts, they really get really defensive on this one so it's kind of interesting to watch and I find it uniquely humorous because I would say

04:44

I fit the introverted personality type for sure. So I you know when

04:49

I when I comment on it if I Put if I give any any pushback at all to the label then you'll get any number of people with pitchforks and Torches who are you know storming the gates of your house

05:01

Ready to go to war with you on that. So that is an interesting phenomenon to observe for sure

05:06

But yeah, I mean I think yeah The question we're trying to ask really trying to answer is is is the introverted personality type something that?

05:14

Will be resolved when you get to heaven essentially Yeah, basically meaning in heaven will there be people who

05:21

The majority of their time is spent by themselves not around other people, right?

05:27

Is that what you mean? Yeah, sure. I mean I think um It's interesting because when you think about this label,

05:35

I mean it is a psychological label and one of the Assumptions about these personality traits is that these personality like Types or whatever they're

05:47

Fundamentally fixed. So that's that's basically a a presupposition that undergirds this project

05:53

Is that personality types are fixed like you are what you are, you know, whatever your like personality type is that that In some sense that like identifies you as a person, right?

06:03

So Yeah, when I was asking people about this online they they really did

06:08

They really did respond to this question thinking that if the introverted aspect of their personality were to change

06:16

They're like will I even be myself then? because Because this is like I lost a part of me.

06:23

Yeah This is a fundamental aspect of who I am, you know so like in other words like in heaven will everyone have the same personality type that's part of a that's a question that goes into this like Meaning like is there some perfect personality type that?

06:38

you know is maybe a healthy balance between introversion extroversion, whatever, you know, and that there's going to be a

06:46

Uniform personality type ever something like that. So all those are the questions but I mean I think When you think about what this word means

06:52

I think a lot of people right now are identifying with this label a lot more than what probably should

07:00

Simply by virtue of the fact that we're living in a society. That's increasingly impersonal

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So most of our interactions are online and there's a lot of ways that we can entertain ourself too, you know, so I know one guy who is about as extroverted as you can possibly imagine a person to be

07:21

But then when I asked a question about introversion, he identified himself as being an introvert.

07:26

I'm like, you're not an introvert Like on this like knowing what these words mean. You're not an introvert, you know

07:32

And I think what he meant by that was he just likes To Vege out entertain himself a lot more now because there's so many options, you know to do that nowadays nowadays so Yeah, I think there's some confusion about what the label actually means in general

07:49

Yeah in general introverts. They obviously like to spend more time on their own but then when you think about what the

07:57

Label really means and I mean you can look this up in any I mean look it up in a google search look it up Like any anywhere you look it up what that what's going to show up over and over again?

08:08

is this aspect of it where an individual basically feels drained by extended prolonged social interactions so the introvert person is going to feel drained by prolonged social interactions whereas the extroverted person is going to feel recharged by extended prolonged

08:31

Social interactions and then this the extrovert is going to feel drained by extended periods of isolation, right?

08:39

so That that really is foundational to the nature of what we're even talking about I mean like I think in general introverts will describe themselves as preferring to be alone preferring solitude

08:50

Which is what you said. So I mean looking looking this up. I mean The first characteristic is like a preference for solitude.

08:58

You do have like a deep thinking component to this too like a reserved nature More of a thoughtful communicator kind of thing whereas the extrovert can you know be the peter type with the foot shaped mouth or whatever along those lines whereas, you know the the

09:14

Introverted person can kind of agonize over their words and spend a lot of time internally

09:20

Going over things in their mind working out problems that kind of thing um It like the extroverted person typically is going to have more um close relationships

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Than the introvert, right? So like the introvert is going to prefer to have few really close relationships over the extra over against the extrovert

09:40

Who's going to prefer to have a lot of relationships that are more superficial? And then yeah, the introverts generally going to be the person who just prefers to work alone, you know over against the lone wolf type

09:51

Right, so if you imagine mr. Mr. Incredible at the beginning of the incredibles, right?

09:57

Something like that so I mean you have people who love teamwork and then you have the person who's like no like i'm gonna solo everything, right?

10:07

I'm gonna sell i'm gonna sell all this raid boss, right? So sell the raid fly fly home buddy.

10:13

I work alone. Yep. Yep So, I mean those are some things that yeah think about it doesn't really stop

10:18

But yeah, the preference for solitude is at the top of this for sure Okay, so so but then you know when we first opened the episode you were making it sound like No, that won't be in heaven

10:33

Right. I mean, I mean you quoted the you quoted or i'm sorry you paraphrased The bible verse, you know, uh, uh

10:42

It's easier for a campbell to go Through the eye of a needle than for an introvert to enter the kingdom of heaven, right?

10:48

You know woe to the introverts for they won't see the kingdom of heaven is something you said something like outside of the dogs

10:55

The sexual immoral the introverts, you know the introverts So so then what you know thinking about the topic question itself will introverts be in heaven

11:06

You know, it sound it probably probably to most people. It sounds like you're saying. No, there won't be any well

11:13

No, actually what I would actually say if i'm trying to be careful, which I haven't been trying to be careful so far uh What what

11:19

I would actually say is I think that some of that stuff which you just which people classically describe as Introversion is neither here nor there, you know is is somewhat neutral but then a lot of it really isn't you know, so there's significant aspects of introversion that Are negative, okay

11:41

So, I mean and I would say the same thing for extroversion too And that's what introversion introverts always get mad about when you have this conversation like the extroverts aren't typically picked on and part of the reason for that is because yeah,

11:52

I mean like in order to get ahead in the world you really do have to be an extrovert for the most part unless you're just working in a um

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Like a stem field or something along those lines like there's most most area in most areas of life extroverts excel

12:07

Even if they're not qualified, right? People just are attracted to them and they want you know want to put them forward as people who are um

12:15

You know leaders or whatever else and so but then they may not be the most competent and they may not be the most capable um, so there's that but yeah, yeah,

12:24

I think the the biggest problem with this label is the idea of being drained by social interaction and all the preference kind of language like meaning in substance like preferences are

12:39

Huh? preferences are They are what they are, right?

12:45

Like meaning like there is it's not as if it's bad to have desires or something like that But then a lot of these preferences like related to introversion

12:54

They really are the kind of things where they're very self like an introvert introverts can be very self -focused people

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By default, right? So like the idea of an a person being drained by social interactions,

13:08

I would say i'm drained by extended prolonged social interactions

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But I I see that as a problem to resolve in over the course of my life I've gotten much less drained by extended prolonged social interactions.

13:23

So Like I mean, I remember when I was about to get married. I was asking like a godly couple

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I knew I knew about this topic and you know, I was asking him so how do you deal with you know personality types introversion extroversion and all that I mean,

13:39

I i'm the kind of person who just if i'm at a party all day long or whatever i'm just Mentally exhausted i'm done with it.

13:47

Like I just want to be alone or whatever and You know, so how do you work that out in marriage?

13:53

Just like the whole idea of having your alone time your me time or whatever like, uh, Like because there's no escape with marriage you're just there you're stuck with them, right?

14:03

There's no there's no out or whatever So what do you do with that? You know and they kind of looked at me like I was an idiot and I appreciate that that they they uh

14:10

Couldn't hide their facial expressions at that, you know, and you know, I mean their response to that was yeah, you just get over yourself

14:16

It's more pleasant to give than receive you grow up, you know, like you realize that this is a responsibility

14:22

You're taking on you're one flesh. Yeah You know you die to yourself and like you learn to care about people more than you care about your own little

14:30

You know time that you need or whatever and I mean I took that to heart and and you know i've grown over the years to where i'm much less drained by social interactions, but the reason why i'm drained by social interactions is because one like people are sinful

14:47

Right, like most of it's related to either sinfulness or fall like our fallenness Like if you think about it so like a lot of times introverts they think about things very deeply and if you if you're trying to interact with an extroverted kind of person personality type and you can't get them to Even under like you may be you may have thought about this issue like for years, right?

15:12

And you're trying to have a conversation with with them about this topic that you've thought about for years And it's like whatever you're saying is like completely incomprehensible to them

15:21

Because they haven't thought about it like that, you know, and then they just get mad at you and offended with you about it and so I mean a lot of like The things that make introverts feel drained are either related to the fact that they're selfish

15:34

The other person's selfish. They're not a perfect communicator. The other person is not a perfect listener, right?

15:40

like like so all like You're not gonna in heaven just be like man. I'm so sick of like hanging out with all you guys like, you know

15:47

I'm done with it, you know, I need to go to my cave over here, you know my mansion over here, whatever And I just need to go fish for a little bit because i'm so exhausted by being around all you people

15:56

It's like that isn't gonna happen Like whatever that is. That's um, like you're gonna be perfectly long -suffering patient Kind you'll have learned that it's more blessed to give than to receive right?

16:10

You'll you'll have You'll be like perfect in every way and so like these this aspect of like different personality types that Like it's the same thing with just like men and women have a hard time communicating with each other

16:26

But there's not there's not going to be like a battle um Battle of the sexes in heaven or something like that all the things that make communication between men and women hard Will be resolved.

16:37

Does that make sense? Yeah Yeah So all the things that make communication between introverts and extroverts hard will be resolved in heaven and you'll have people who are perfectly selfless who

16:48

Won't who have learned it's better to give than receive to receive And so you're not going to have this like social battery thing that's you're drained and you're exhausted and you've done your duty

16:58

You've had enough of it It's like I need to be done with all this, you know, like that that kind of component isn't going to exist now, but I do

17:06

I do imagine that just um That people will have jobs in the afterlife right in the new heaven new earth

17:13

There'll be jobs and some of those jobs will be more suited to brains and some of those jobs will be Like will be more suited to hands right and that kind of thing

17:22

And so I think those things will I think there's different types of people and who are given different gifts

17:28

I don't think that in heaven afterlife or new earth, whatever All of that. I don't think we're all going to have the same gift giftings

17:35

I think there'll still be different giftings and different responsibilities that different types of people are given Now, I don't know if god will change it all up, right?

17:43

like meaning I don't know that if he'll Make the brains on earth the hands and in the new world, right?

17:50

Yeah, there's no like I I don't think that whatever your Giftings are here now.

17:55

They're going to be eternally the same You know, I went to a passion conference once and louie louie giglio said the most insane absurd thing i've ever

18:03

I could ever imagine but you know, he is basically saying, you know, won't it be great when we all get to heaven and chris tomlin will be

18:09

Leading the americans in the american worship and all that I'm, like I doubt Somehow I doubt that chris tomlin

18:20

Seeing what he's doing right here on the stage right now Like I I somehow I like this is when

18:25

I was first christian or whatever I thought the whole thing was absurd But I mean it was like I somehow doubt that he's going to be heaven's worship leader because he's topping the charts right now heaven's heaven's worship

18:36

I I sincerely doubt it man, you know like but tim he's so extroverted though Just goes to show maybe you know, maybe he makes it

18:48

I don't know maybe but you know He may be a janitor or something like that. Who knows? And I mean i'm not i'm not picking at him like who know i'd be happy to be a janitor, you know

18:58

So but I mean i'm I don't think that you know that it works like that So I don't know what kind of personality type we'll have in heaven

19:05

It may not correspond obviously going to be segregated worship by nation The germans will have their worship the french will have theirs the americans there right, man, that's the way obviously the way it works, but yeah, so I I think that yeah, there's some of that like just god's given people different gifts and You know there

19:26

I think there could be people who are more brains in heaven and given brain jobs in heaven

19:31

Like jobs that require brains like, you know more brain power But a lot of that social battery kind of stuff which seems to be the foundation for it.

19:39

I think that's That's not like what that's not wonderful right now Either way so like an extrovert is a big you you would think the extrovert thing is wonderful because it's like well

19:50

They are really other centers like no, they're selfish too, man They like the they like social interactions for all the things they get out of it, right?

19:57

Right, so they get the they get approval out of it. They get affirmation out of it extroverts can be some of the most needy people imaginable because they just Need constant like affirmation from everyone around them in order to feel.

20:10

Okay And so then these are like just big self -focused moments for them, right? Whereas the introvert struggling with that uh, because you know, they don't uh

20:21

Know the same formula or whatever but like it's sinful both ways. Okay, it's not good

20:27

You know, so yeah So yeah, I I don't think there would be like this concept of the social battery that will be trained in heaven for sure

20:36

The social battery so one thing one thing you mentioned Briefly and I wanted to ask you directly about it so that you could you could explain it some more as you so you went to the um

20:51

You know to your Christian friends who were older than you further along more experienced and their christian walk and you asked them about introversion related to marriage right and and they kind of They kind of laughed at you and and mocked, you know

21:07

Mocked you innocently a little bit. No, I was merciless man. I I took it And and you said you were appreciative of that, right?

21:15

Oh, yeah. Yeah, you were appreciative of the mocking part of it, right? Yeah, yeah, so So some

21:22

I think something i've noticed and and we're you and I were talking about this Uh before you had mentioned it before we started the episode

21:30

I've noticed it too Is this is one of those topics where?

21:36

the the first time you mention introverted people needing to change anything about What their preferences are?

21:46

You know what what drains them mentally or emotionally anything like that uh, they instantly get

21:54

Upset and offended right? Yeah, and so so just contrast the generality.

22:00

Yeah just contrasting the two responses You're someone who claims to be an introvert and then you had you had someone not only tell you

22:11

Hey, that's wrong, but they were you know, they're kind of they're making fun of you for For even having to ask the question

22:19

Uh, and and you were appreciative of that Were you well first were you appreciative of that in the moment or were you upset in the moment?

22:26

Oh, no, no. No, I was appreciate you're you're appreciative. Okay so what how is it that you can be appreciative of it, but then the majority of people who

22:37

Claim to be introverted immediately get upset they immediately get defensive

22:43

Uh, they you know, they immediately point, you know point the finger at the extrovert

22:49

What about all the things the extroverted person is doing wrong? Why? Why is it always? You've got to get on the introverts, you know, everyone's always pointing out all the ways in which the introverts fail blah blah, whatever

23:02

Um, and so it's just it's immediate defensiveness so why is it that there's the

23:08

How is it possible that you can respond one way and the majority of people that I see

23:14

Who claim to be introverted when they hear even the slightest criticism not even mocking no mocking nothing just Just hey, have you ever thought about this?

23:24

instant defensiveness yeah, I mean obviously god's grace and you know,

23:29

I don't want to pat myself on the back or something like that, but uh but yeah, I I think um

23:35

The means he used in my life was I just I as I I mean I during that time in my life.

23:41

I was reading through the bible a lot and You know as you read through the proverbs You see things like a man who loves discipline loves knowledge a man who hates correction.

23:49

He is stupid You know, so I I kind of internalized that I didn't want to be stupid You know, that was a smart choice

23:57

I mean, I I didn't want to be stupid The bible says faithful are the wounds of a friend profuse or the kisses of the enemy and I I understood

24:04

I mean I I was pursuing counseling at that point and i've been involved in some counseling at that point and I I understood that I mean, there's there's a lot of people who they

24:14

Seek advice and what they want is you just to affirm everything that they're thinking and feeling is valid That's kind of you know

24:21

What people are doing for the most part and i've been enough counters encounters at that point By my and my life where people are coming to me for advice and they just they don't want it

24:32

You know the inside I didn't I didn't really want to be that kind of person so, I mean I would look for older people in my life and ask them questions and just um

24:41

Like I I I was the kind of person who would find You know the old people in my life and say hey, here's my list, you know, tell me tell me what you think and then and they

24:51

I guess they knew that I Had thicker skin or whatever I could I could take it. Uh Because I mean

24:57

I give it out too, you know So You know, so i'm not overly sensitive

25:02

I I uh, I prefer to just be Be direct and you know, tell me what tell me. I mean

25:07

I you know, that's kind of how I present myself to them It's like hey, you're not gonna hurt my feelings.

25:13

Just tell me what you think, you know, so Yeah, I mean I so I think there's part of it's that like meaning you can you can develop you could cultivate in yourself that kind of Personality that is you really do want people to Tell you what's true and not just lie to you and tell you what you want to hear

25:31

You know kind of thing So I mean part of it's that but I mean, I think a lot of people particularly with this topic

25:37

The the bible says a wicked flea when no one pursues the righteous or bold as a lion Like I I do think that there's a lot of self -protectiveness related to this topic

25:46

That's related to insecurities like deep -seated kind of insecurities that people have

25:51

Like and part of that is just because like if you are an introvert you realize that I mean think about every area of life

25:58

The people who get ahead in all of the areas that seem to matter to most people Are the extroverts right?

26:05

So I mean like the the extrovert will get the job promotion over the introvert almost every time You know, all the people in hollywood are basically

26:13

You know your classic extroverted type of people or at least they can fake it, you know Um, so like those those are just the kind of people who get ahead they're the kind of people who get opposite sex attention a lot more

26:26

Yeah, so women like, you know, if you're a man who's introverted and women obviously gravitate towards like Extroverted people a lot more than they do introverted people

26:36

And so I mean, I think a lot of introverts they have like these deep -seated kind of insecurities that they're dealing with to where they um

26:45

That can turn like very defensive, you know about themselves and then part of it's like they're doing the comparison thing

26:52

So they like, you know, a lot of introverted people they look at their extroverted friends and they think man You're just so superficial and you're so trivial and this is so ridiculous, right?

27:01

that um and then So there's a lot of like insecurity there But then there's kind of like I can't relate with you and you're kind of person, right?

27:11

But you're the kind of thing that people like that people are selling, you know, and that's not me, you know

27:16

So a lot of people they feel that way uh, so a lot of it's that you know, but then a lot of it really is that like you can if you

27:24

If you absorb these labels, you really can Run with them and just turn into just the most narcissistic kind of self -focused person imaginable who

27:36

You know, you just can't handle Like I mean if you imagine if you just ran with that Like you just you kind of I mean

27:45

I know of guys who They come home after their long day of work and they just ignore their family for like three hours or something

27:54

Because they're they've had enough, you know And I know of women who like will literally just by the time that their husband gets home

28:03

They're like i'm done with it. I'm out of here You watch the kids do dinner do everything else

28:09

I need my me time you know kind of thing i've been around people all day i'm frazzled or whatever and it's just like So so then when you're challenging this idea, you're you're really just kind of poking at this thing about them

28:21

It really does need to change, you know, so Like there's part of this that's neutral But the defense of this is showing like that.

28:29

There's a big part of this. It really isn't all that neutral too, you know There's something that you're very protective about that really reveals like Some things about you that aren't good, you know

28:42

So like when you touch a person's idol they scream and so for many people this is like dear to them, you know like it's

28:49

This is who they are And it's their excuse for a lot of things.

28:54

They shouldn't be doing, you know so when you kind of put your finger on it, you're basically taking away that Club they use to bash away

29:03

Personal responsibility Right, right. Yeah, and I think i've noticed a similar thing not necessarily isolated to The introverted kind of person but just in general normally you know,

29:18

I mean You you had asked me once. Hey if if a heretic came along and You know question your salvation

29:27

Would you start? Would you just crumble would you just start questioning everything about yourself?

29:34

And you know, my answer was essentially Well, no, I don't I don't care what a heretic thinks at all about my salvation um

29:45

Because they're a heretic Like so what they it doesn't matter what they say. I don't feel insecure about anything that they're bringing up but then

29:54

It seems like a lot of times when you have these types of conversations, especially when it comes like being introverted or anxiety or depression um, obviously, you know the hot the hot button social issues of our day like abortion and and You know

30:11

Homosexuality all that stuff. Those are the type of things that people get really bent out of shape about really fast

30:19

Uh, and and they're constantly and it seems like they're constantly demanding that you

30:24

Affirm them in what they're doing probably because of what you're saying um about like hey their conscience is is uh

30:35

Is screaming out to them, you know assuming it hasn't just been totally seared and and is no longer capable of telling them anything

30:43

Their conscience is telling them that there's something wrong with what they're doing And they don't like the fact that it's wrong because they love whatever that sin is um

30:54

And so so I feel like i've noticed that as well. Now one thing I would ask Tim is you know, we define we you defined introversion for us in the beginning uh of the episode, but then you do see in the bible plenty of times where Uh people go to be alone for uh for a period of time um, whether that be for mourning whether that be for some, you know prayer or some some form of communication with god directly

31:26

So what so what then is there a difference between that and introversion as we would define it today

31:36

Or you know, are they are they similar are there aspects about them that overlap?

31:41

How how does that work in though because even jesus he would go to be alone for periods of time

31:47

So does that mean that is that some sort of biblical case for an introverted?

31:53

person to you know lean into their preferences I mean people people often bring that kind of thing up But yeah, no, that's just fundamentally a different kind of thing now

32:03

I mean obviously if jesus goes into wilderness to pray Like he's in praying fast.

32:08

He's not alone. He's with the father So that's not me time if you understand me time in the sense that It's meant to be right

32:17

So he's not having his self -focused narcissistic time where he's off on his own playing video games by himself to recharge his batteries or something

32:26

Like he's going to pray So, I mean that's that's relational time, you know So that's the opposite that would be the opposite of like me time or whatever uh self -care, you know

32:36

So a lot of a lot of what's happening is you're just we have we're mixing categories when we talk about like these kind of things

32:44

So the idea of me time or self -care That's just time where a person spends you know, typically a time where a person will you know, um

32:57

Engage most of the time engage in entertainment by themselves, you know where they don't have to think or interact with anyone else

33:03

So it's just like this is time where I get to do something. I want to do all by myself, you know So i'm not criticizing like the idea of people pursuing their own interest um

33:13

But you know, I obviously have a lot less time to pursue my own interest now that i'm married and have five kids

33:19

Than I did as a single person. So and i'm not, you know demanding that I come home every day and Have three hours worth of me time or something like that.

33:27

You know, that's kind of absurd you have responsibilities. So yeah, I think that Um, there's any number of activities that require sustained thought so right now i'm coding for living and I need silence and solitude in order to do that.

33:46

It's not like a it's not really a team job In that way so,

33:53

I mean, I think there's a lot of activities in the world that require quiet, you know solitude like I mean typically anything that requires significant brain power is going to I think imagine trying to work out a math problem or write an essay with a

34:09

Group, it can get really hard. I mean you can brainstorm, you know Like there's there's group brainstorming things like that.

34:16

But you know at some point it's just like move, you know, let me do this You know because I need to concentrate like it's it's not these aren't the kind of things that um

34:26

Now and if you're building a house then, you know building a house isn't a solo project, you know, you need help, you know

34:33

So there's just different types of jobs that you know, or people are required to do

34:38

But yeah, I mean they're in the bible. There isn't just this category of a person Like the bible says like the person who isolates themselves seeks their own desire so yes,

34:51

I mean that's That's what we're talking about It's I mean, that's just that's what we're talking about And so you have a lot of people who claim that as an essential aspect of their personality that they enjoy

35:05

Isolating themselves and seeking their own desire. It's like well, that wasn't a good thing, you know Yeah, that that wasn't a good thing, you know, so I mean

35:13

I I think it's perfectly fine to have interests that you want to pursue um By yourself, that's fine you know, like I don't think there's like you don't have to feel like you're in sin if you

35:25

Do something by yourself or something like that. That's not what i'm communicating and I mean I You know spend plenty of times doing things that I like to do

35:33

I mean not as much as I used to when I was single, but I mean like the issue is I think the more that you're

35:39

You know bible talks about redeeming the time for the days are evil Yeah, and the more that you grow up the more you accept responsibility

35:45

More that you quit leaning on personality labels as a crutch that put you know, put you in a straight jacket

35:51

Where you can't really Fulfill all the things that god wants you to do the more you just you're forced to Think outside yourself, you know, so I mean,

36:00

I think we'll We will spend most like heaven is a community like, you know, the new heaven new earth

36:05

I mean the this is going to be perfect community. It's not just going to be rugged individualism, you know kind of thing

36:11

It's going to be a lot. I mean, I I can't imagine the new heaven a new earth Being people who are so socially isolated like they are today, you know

36:19

So the bible says it's not good for man to be alone As a general rule, it's not good, you know

36:26

And I mean just think about like all the things that Happen when people just have extended time by themselves just to pursue their own desires.

36:34

I mean one of the you know Like you just take a young man filled with hormones and give him nothing to do

36:41

I mean, it's no shock that so many of them are turning to porn, you know, because that right They don't have anything productive to do.

36:47

So, you know life isn't really meant to be like lived predominantly by yourself I mean, certainly

36:53

I think there's Like a lot of the advancements we've seen in the world have come from introverts locking themselves in a room and Figuring out something that no one else can figure out, you know

37:06

But that's that hopefully that's being done for the benefit of everyone, right? That isn't just me pursuing my own interest by myself in order for me to be feel better as a person with me

37:16

Kind of thing, you know, so there's that yeah Yeah, so I guess the last question I have real quick is is for the person who's listening to this and thinking to themselves hey,

37:26

I sound like and you know, I would fit the definition of an introvert, but then

37:32

I understand that there's a lot of issues with Uh with being with being an introvert in the way that it's defined

37:42

And I want to I want to overcome that what what would you recommend to them?

37:49

Yeah, I mean I I would recommend to them that they not view these personality labels as as uh straight jackets

37:58

So, you know god can take you and he can make you a lot different than what you are There's a lot of things that are packed into these labels and assumptions that come with it that just really you know

38:10

Aren't wonderful so Yeah, I mean even like to be a leader in the world.

38:16

You need to take initiative Um, you can't be afraid of people. You can't be afraid of everyone that you see

38:22

You know, you can't just be in your mind weighed down with insecurities without having any confidence, you know

38:28

So like these these labels they don't have to define you. You don't have to be that person forever, you know, you don't like there's

38:34

I think there's there's good and there's like, uh, there's good there's good about these things there's bad about these things and try to You know,

38:42

I I would I wouldn't uh Particularly I wouldn't latch on to the idea of the social battery and all that like I think that's nonsense and garbage so but yeah,

38:51

I mean I think use like I do think if you could find Something that plays to your strengths to do with your life.

39:00

That would be good and um You may have a more fulfilling life.

39:05

It may be more productive in life. You may have More ways to bless the world, you know if you played the play to your strengths but yeah,

39:12

I I have observed that my personality has not been static over time and Like the things that used to you know, stress me out or whatever when

39:20

I was younger I kind of laugh at now. I was just a big baby, you know, so Yeah grow up, you know

39:28

Grow up be able to make fun of yourself a little bit I guess. Yeah Or at least your past self

39:35

Okay I think that's a good place for us to wrap up the episode on so Thank you.

39:41

Tim for answering all my questions and and walking us through uh this conversation on introverts and and what that looks like and you know, how does it compare to what the bible says christians should look like and uh, so so I certainly appreciate that and we hope this has been a conversation that has been helpful for you guys has been

40:03

Clarifying for you in a lot of ways and encouraging for you uh, and something that gives you hope to know that you know, uh

40:13

That god for god for his children. He's constantly perfecting us. He's sanctifying us transforming us from one degree of glory to another

40:23

Helping us to look more and more like the example that christ set for us um, and and part of that is, you know dying to our own self -interest and And learning more and more how to be selfless people instead of selfish people.

40:39

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41:30

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41:42

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