LDS Woman Who Wants to Know Jesus

Apologia Utah

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I focus on developing my relationship with Him, and I trust that He will reveal things that are necessary to my progression.

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And whether that is to eventually become like Him, if that's what

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Jesus means by become like, perfect just like I, and your Father in Heaven is perfect, if that's what

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He's meaning, like becoming like Him, like a God, or if He's just meaning become perfected through me,

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I don't know. But I do know that He will let me know. If I just focus on that one connection with Him, then it'll be okay until He lets me know.

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Because God is eternal, right? It says, from eternity through eternity, you are God. That's what the

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Bible says. So, He's always existed. He's always been God. He has no beginning.

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He has no end. So, I say these things to you because, you know, you say, it's important to me that if I go to God, and I focus on my relationship with Him, that these things will be revealed to me.

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Well, I agree, but I also say that God has given us

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His Word, right? He's given us the Bible. So, He has communicated to us and told us these things.

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He's given us these truths. And the problem is... Interpretations of men. Well, there are problems with wrong people interpreting the

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Bible incorrectly. But I would say that God is very clear. Isaiah 40 to Isaiah 48,

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He talks and clearly states that He is the only God, right? There is no other

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God. No one will become a God one day. There was no God before Him.

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There will be none after Him. There is no other God formed, right? And you're right. He's telling the people in His commandments,

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He doesn't want us to worship idols, but He also doesn't want us to worship the idol of self.

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And the idol of self looks like this. I will be a God one day, and I will operate like God.

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When God talks about us being like Him, He's talking about our sanctification in Christ.

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God says, be holy as I am holy, right? But He's not saying that you will be

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God one day because the Scriptures say there's only one God. So that kind of rules that out.

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So if we rule out that we will be God one day, God says He's the only God, well then the

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Scriptures will be clarified in that we will be like God as He sanctifies us through Jesus and His Holy Spirit.

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Does that make sense? So there are things that God does reveal to us through time and as we continue to learn and read, but He will never contradict

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His word in the Bible, right? So like the Bible says in James that God never changes, that He is the same from yesterday to today.

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So He won't contradict Himself. So when the church,

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LDS Church says, you know, you'll be a God one day or you can be like God or be

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God's yourself of your own planet, well God doesn't change and He doesn't learn.

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So we have to reject that teaching because it's not consistent with what

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God says in the Bible. Does that make sense? So I say these things because if we have a wrong understanding of God and His nature, if we're being taught something that isn't consistent with God's word, we have to reject that because we're getting

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God wrong. And if we're getting God wrong, it's possible that we're worshiping a

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God that cannot save us, right? Because you either have Jesus of the Scriptures, Jesus of the

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Bible that the Bible talks about. You either have that Jesus or you have a

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Jesus that cannot save. And the Jesus of the LDS Church says that Jesus is a created being, that He is the first creation of Elohim, and that He's the spirit brother of Lucifer.

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But the Scriptures say that in the beginning was the Word, the

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Word was with God, and the Word was God. That's John 1. That's talking about Jesus, and it's talking about Him always being

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God. Not becoming a God, but the God, the one true and holy

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God. And that's another contradiction, right? If it's saying that He has always existed versus the

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LDS Church is saying that He's the first created, well that's a different Jesus.

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Does that make sense? There's so much being thrown at me right now. I know, I know, it's a lot. It's a lot.

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So yeah, something simple like this, right? I'll go to a different point, but I'll keep it on this consistent point, okay?

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So the LDS Church teaches that you are saved by faith after all you can do.

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Is that correct? You know what's funny? I literally listened to a talk the other day that was about that Scripture, that Scripture verse.

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And this study, a member of our church was kind of going into all the facets of what that Scripture can mean and how we interpret it differently.

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And I honestly think that that's the one thing about interpreting Scripture that I've always, just as a person on the earth, we're all trying to find this truth and no matter what, after life, we're going to find out what the truth really is, right?

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But it's so hard to interpret Scripture because there's so many ways that we interpret it.

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Even just that one verse, which is so funny that you bring that verse up, because that's the one He was interpreting. And I was like, whoa, you're telling me you're saying it's like this.

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And I don't know, sometimes I wish I could just have a little moment with God and be like, okay, let's be like, let's talk.

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In the book of Galatians, in the Bible, they're dealing with a similar issue, right?

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So in the church, there were Judaizers, Jews, who were saying that you're not just saved by your faith.

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You also need to be circumcised, right? So you have to do something.

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You have to be circumcised. And they address that problem at the Jerusalem Council and they say, no, that is apostate.

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You're saved by faith alone, apart from works. Christ saved you, correct.

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You don't add anything to that. If you add one thing to that, if you add one thing to being saved apart from faith, you are accursed, right?

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And you have to follow the whole law. And that is impossible because we can't follow the law.

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You still have to choose faith. You still have to choose to have faith, like to believe. And I think that that's where people always say...

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Now, okay, I'm sorry to interrupt. No, it's okay. That just got me thinking. Because a lot of people say, you guys believe that you're saved by your works.

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And I can see the confusion between that. But I have grown up just Christian my whole life.

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And I believe that Christ, he died for us. I wear my cross. I'm not wearing it right now.

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But I believe he died for us. I believe he saved us and we are saved. That's right. Through our faith in him, alone.

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Yes, through believing in him. But I feel like, I mean, I believe that it is still our...

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I guess we use the word agency, like our choice, basically, to just choose to believe in him.

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Because you could also choose to not believe. And in that way, you wouldn't be having faith in Christ.

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Well, check this out. Okay, so this is my answer to that. It's scripture, right? Sure. It's Ephesians 2, starting in verse 1.

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It says, you were dead in your trespasses and sins. And once you once lived, following the prince of the power of the air of this world.

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Right? So what it's saying is that you and I are spiritually dead.

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Okay? But it says that you have been saved by grace, through faith in Christ, not of yourself.

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That it is a gift of God. Okay? So I ask you this question in response to that.

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What can a dead man do? A dead man can do nothing.

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No, a dead man is... That's right.

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That's right. It's a gift. So with that response, what I'm telling you is, we cannot choose

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God. We have no ability to choose God. It's in fact God reaching in, reaching down, and resurrecting, like you said, a dead person to life.

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And we cannot choose that. What can a dead man do? And Jesus spoke, and he came out.

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What did Lazarus do? He was laying dead in his tomb. It's a visual representation of what

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Christ does for us when he raises us from death to life spiritually.

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We are spiritually dead. We can do nothing apart from God. But he calls us to life, and it is a gift of God, Ephesians 2, 8, and 9.

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So it's nothing we do. It's God does it all. And that is why it is such an amazing thing.

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The grace of God is so beautiful, and nothing can be added to that because it's grace.

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It's unmerited favor. It's nothing we deserve. God does it all for us, and he raises us to life, and that is the

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God of the Bible, the Christian God. And you said you were raised Christian, or you were in a

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Christian church before, and now you go, I guess, to an LDS, or how is that kind of transition?

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Oh, sorry, I might have misspoke. I've always just been, I've just always believed in Christ. I was actually raised with a little interesting situation.

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But I always, this is the only church, I mean, I've been to actually many churches, but I've always been baptized in this church.

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Okay, the LDS. Okay, so this is important. So this is my pastor, and him and I are deacons of the church.

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It's called the Apologia Church in Utah. We're actually in South Jordan. Yeah, that's where I'm from.

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That's where you're from? Yeah. Nice, yeah, I lived in Harriman, but I recently moved. That's where I'm from. You live in Harriman?

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Yeah, yeah. Okay, yeah, they both live in Harriman. Yeah, it's kind of cool. We actually moved out here from Arizona, and they moved to start a church out here.

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I wonder if my friend is, because my friend goes to a church. Is it the

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Mission Church? It could be. Okay, because that's where we rent from, is the Mission Church.

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We're there in the morning, and we're in the afternoon at 4 o 'clock. But I say all these things, and I want to just kind of press you on it, because from some of the things that we've talked about, you've agreed with me on what the

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Bible says and how God saves us. But that's not what the LDS Church is teaching, right?

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They're teaching that you're saved by faith after all you can do. They're teaching that you can become a

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God one day, like God, that you can also become a God one day. They're teaching that Jesus is not the eternal

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God that I'm talking about in the Scriptures, that He is the offspring of Elohim and one of His wives, that He is the first created being.

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But I could point you to the Scriptures and showing you that that's a contradiction to what the Bible says.

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So would you be interested in maybe sitting down or maybe coming to our church, and I can get my pastor here.

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We can sit down and talk about it. We can look at what the Bible says. We can go over the

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Scriptures. And because I say all these things not to win an argument, because I truly care, because as I said,

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I believe that if you have the wrong God, if you have the wrong Jesus, not the

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Jesus of the Bible, but a Jesus that has been manipulated and changed, that you have a

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God that cannot save you. And that's a scary thing to think that you're saved and to be worshiping a

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Jesus and a God that is not consistent with the Scriptures because that is another God, right?

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And I'm concerned for your soul. That's why I share these things. Because there's only one

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God. There's only one way to be saved through our faith. And that's something that has to be the most important thing.

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We have to search the Scriptures, go to the Bible, and read through these things and reconcile these differences.

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And I truly believe that this church is teaching a God that cannot save you. And that scares me.

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And that's why I'm here on the sidewalk sharing these things. That's why I'm talking with people. Because if you have the wrong

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God, then your salvation isn't secure. And that's what

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I'm concerned about. I just love that you are out here spending your night sharing about God.

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You seem very genuine coming across. Indeed, yeah. It's very refreshing.

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Yeah. And although I might have a different perspective of what my church does teach, maybe

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I have a different interpretation or maybe I just have different experiences with it, I do believe that God is very merciful.

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And that I served a mission for my church, which was a hard decision to do, but I did it.

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And when I was talking to people, I felt like literally I was kind of doing what you're doing.

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And I felt like these people are never going to come under pressure.

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Because I served in Switzerland, which no one really cared about God. They thought it was some power.

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Or they didn't believe really in a God. And so I was just so confused and concerned.

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And I talked to my dad about it. And he was like, Bailey, I believe that little things you do with these people, we teach them one by one.

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We believe that God is a loving, heavenly Father. And we believe that Christ and the principles he taught will bless your life.

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Etc. We would teach them these things. And then they would come a step closer to God.

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Because God is already close to us. His relationship with us is perfect. But we have to work on ours with him.

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So why I'm saying this is because I appreciate this understatement.

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I'm inspired by your faith in Christ. And in God.

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And I believe that. I just don't think that literally any of us, we're just on this earth.

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I don't think that. There are so many people, so many religions, so many things that have happened.

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What percentage of people know the truth? What percentage of people know? I mean, we have his word.

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But that's what we have. And so what you said, I almost started crying. You're like, we have to just study his word.

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We have to study his word. And although there are interpretations, even the interpretation of the

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Bible was like, people interpreted it differently. And they took things out.

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There's just so much going on that I think God, he cares. And he's the same

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God. And if we're worshiping a God, he knows that our intent is to worship him.

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And I think that every step someone takes closer to him, he takes and he notices that.

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And he's going to bless them. And so even if we're in different faiths, I really do believe every step someone takes towards goodness, which is

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Christ, is Christ's goodness. Every step someone takes towards that, it takes closer to God.

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And so I've talked with some people. I've talked with a lot of friends serving in Germany and Switzerland as well.

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They have all their faiths and everything. And I really just believe that God is much more merciful than to only save a few souls.

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I believe that people take into consideration that we're just humans. Sure, sure.

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And you know, in what you're saying, what I would say in response is our guidance has to be the

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Word of God. And while you say there's different interpretations and things, I would say to you is we have the original

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Scriptures, the original manuscripts that we can go back to and check with the Word of God.

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But essentially, in the Scriptures, God says,

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I am the way, Jesus says this, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the

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Father but through me. Right? That means there is only one way to God and that is through our faith in Jesus Christ.

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And as we spoke before, I said we agreed as Ephesians 2, what can a dead man do?

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It says that we are all dead in our sins and trespasses. So it's God who comes in and saves us.

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And while I would like to have, I would like to believe that everyone can be saved and that everyone can get closer to God.

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Well, the gift of God is faith, right? That is a gift of God.

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Everyone has a common grace. We've all been given the gift of life. But there is a revelatory grace that God reveals

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Himself. Right, so there is a physical death and then there is a spiritual death.

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And we all have the gift, the common grace of life. But we don't all have the revelatory grace where God reveals

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Himself to us and we truly experience a relationship with Christ.

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And while I would like to believe that we could do good and as we share the truth people get closer, the

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Bible says that the wages of sin is death. But the free gift of God is eternal life and Christ Jesus is our

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Lord. So we are by nature sinners and it is only by the grace of God that He saves us.

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And the only way that I can share these things with you is the Bible and God's revelation.

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God gave us His Word and He's given us the Holy Spirit, a revelation to understand

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His Word. Something that God says in His Scripture is that do you believe that God is powerful enough to communicate clearly to us through the

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Bible? Right. So we have to reject this idea that God cannot communicate to us clearly through His Word.

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I think God is able to communicate pretty clearly through His Holy Bible because He said that He would preserve

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His Word. Right? So if God will preserve His Word and He's all powerful,

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He can clearly communicate to us through the Bible. And it is so clear what the Bible says about the one and only true

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God that we are saved by faith alone, who Jesus is. These things are very clear in the

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Bible and God can communicate that to us. And what I'm challenging you with today is there are teachings that may have been accepted that are teaching that are not consistent with Scripture, specifically on how we're saved, who

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God is, and who Jesus is. And those are the three essentials of the faith.

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Those are the three pillars of the faith. And I would love the opportunity to sit down with you, maybe with my pastor as well, present, and just go through the

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Bible with you. Not just talk on the street, but sit down, look, open a

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Bible, King James, whatever Bible you need to bring, go through it and open these things and show you what the

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Bible says. And what you have to do is say, God, this is what your

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Word says, but this is what I'm being taught by this church. How do

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I reconcile this? Because this is the most important thing, to get who you are and how

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I'm saved right. Does that make sense? Well, yeah. I just feel a little...

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If I understand correctly, I have to reinterpret what you're saying to say it back to you to make sure

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I got it right. Because you're saying that we are saved, yes, from physical life.

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That is this gift that everyone gets, regardless of whatever, right? Everyone gets life.

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Everyone gets to live, right? God has created every single person here.

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Do you believe in resurrection? I do believe in resurrection, yes. Like saved from death. So, when

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I say common grace, what I mean is everybody here is alive, and God has created us all, and we get to experience this creation.

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Right? So everybody here is living, right?

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Which is awesome. We all have the common grace of getting to live lives and experience

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God's creation, getting to breathe air, all of these different things. That's a common grace.

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We get to experience this. But when I say a special, a revelatory, like a special grace, that is a saving grace.

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That is the saving of us from sin. Yes, yes. Because there's like, there's grace to be alive, grace to be alive again, like Christ, and also this physical,

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I guess you could put that under that umbrella, this physical life, and then spiritual life. We die in our spiritual life.

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And what I was getting from you was that we can't just, like death, everyone is promised to rise again.

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But with spiritual death, you have to choose to rise again. Well, spiritual, so, the scriptures say that the dead will rise, right?

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The day of judgment, the dead will rise. And for those who don't have faith in Christ, there will be, that hell awaits, that judgment awaits.

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But for those who had faith in Christ and turned from their sin, in this life that we're living, that there is salvation.

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Yes, salvation. So my question is, what is in this terms? Because faith in Christ, grace in Christ, grace are two different things in this situation.

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What is faith in Christ in that situation, in this life if we have to turn from our sin? What is that faithful life, turning from our sin?

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And how do we do that? So, yes. So the Bible says, by faith you've been saved apart from works, right?

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It is a gift of God. So God saves us as a gift. But it also says in 2

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Timothy that God grants us repentance leading to the knowledge of truth, which is truth in Him, right?

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So in order to be saved, the Bible says that if you confess with your mouth and you believe in your heart that Jesus is

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Lord, you will be saved, right? So it is from the heart that we believe, but the

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Bible also says that we need a turning from our sin. We need to turn from our sin and believe.

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Well, what 2 Timothy says is God has granted us repentance.

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And what repentance is a turning from sin. So God has granted that to us.

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That means God has done it. God has done it all. It's a gift.

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It's granted to us. Faith is a gift given to us by God. So literally, we've done nothing.

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God has done it all. We've done nothing. And God saves us. And it says that when we die now, it says that apart from the body, the spirit will be with Christ.

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And then it says that Christ will return one day to judge the living and the dead.

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And it says that the dead will rise and He will judge the living and the dead. So for those who have faith in Christ, there is salvation.

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Those who have not believed in Christ, there is hell and damnation, condemnation.

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So those things are important and that's kind of the things I'm talking about is faith in who?

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Faith in Jesus, the one true holy and living God, the only

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God, or Jesus, the firstborn of creation,

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Lucifer's brother, a God, but not the God. Do you see the difference there?

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Yes. I can see where you're coming from. Right. So that's two different Jesuses.

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We're saying the same thing. Yeah. But it's very clear, the

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Scriptures, if you read the book of John, John 1 says, In the beginning was the Word, the

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Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was God from all eternity.

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It's talking about Jesus. Okay? Saying that He has always been God, He always was

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God, and He is not a created being. The LDS Church teaches that Jesus is the firstborn spirit child of Elohim and one of His spirit brides.

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So that's a problem. Yes. That's a big difference.

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Right? Exactly. So it's like saying, they both have the name Jesus, but this one is the eternal

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God, this one is the first created being of Elohim and one of His spirit wives. That's a different Jesus.

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So when Jesus, though, when He's baptized, for example, and He rises and then

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He looks to the Father and He speaks to the Father, who is He talking to? Himself? He's talking to God the

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Father. So the God of the Bible is three. No, no.

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So the Bible teaches, have you heard of the concept of the Trinity? Yeah. I never connected with it.

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Okay. So the Trinity, one God, three persons,

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Father, Son, Holy Spirit. They're all one God.

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Different persons. Different persons. So one entity, one entity. Oh, yeah, that makes sense.

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Three persons. See, I always thought that they were saying it was one person, and that makes no sense to me.

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Right. Because for us, for example, we believe that they, we don't use this concept of the

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Trinity, but we believe that they are one God as in one purpose. One in purpose.

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They are united in purpose, but they are three separate beings. Sure, sure. So that's where we would differ is in beings, right?

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You don't see that? Yeah, so the difference is three different gods. You would say there's three different gods.

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You would say there's God the Father, who's one God, God the Son, who's a different God, and the

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Holy Spirit, who's a different God. But what the scriptures teach is, and they teach this in the way, remember

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I just said in the beginning was the Word, the Word was with God, and the Word was

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God. So if the Bible teaches that there is only one

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God, that's Isaiah 43 .10, that's what I gave you in here. So it teaches that there's only one God, but at the same time, the

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Bible says that Jesus is God, that He always was God, right?

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So how do we reconcile that? Well, we reconcile that in the Trinity, in saying that there is one

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God, three persons, three persons of the Godhead.

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They're all equal. They're all co -equals. One isn't higher than the other.

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They're all equal in power. They're all equal in glory. All of those things.

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They're united. They're not different. So when Jesus prays to God the

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Father, it is God the Father, and He is God the Son, but it's not a different God.

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They're the same God. And the Trinity is something, it's hard, it's difficult to wrap your mind around, but the

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Scripture, exactly, exactly. It's like trying to explain something about an unexplainable being, but the

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Scriptures do clearly say that Jesus refers to Himself as God.

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The Scriptures refer to Jesus as God, not a God, but the

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God. So can you see how I show you that if you say Jesus is a

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God, one of many gods, versus He is the God, the one true holy

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God, no other, that that's a different God? Yeah, no,

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I totally, I can see that. I just don't know if I have ever thought of it like that.

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Like I've never actually been like, I honestly have always, like different things, but you know what

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I'm saying? Yeah, right. You just explained it. Yeah. That I've always believed that, and I've never thought of it as different.

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Like, so just you saying that, it just is, I'm just thinking about it.

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Sure. And I have to be honest, I don't even know your name. Dusty. Oh, that's right, that's right. I do know that.

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Dusty, I don't know everything. Sure. I don't think, I literally don't think anyone does.

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I think that that would be presumptuous to assume that we know what God does, which we don't.

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But I do. Jesus Christ.

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I am. Sure, yeah, yeah.

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And, Yeah? And I, how do

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I describe it? Sure, yeah, God, as we continue to read

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God's Word, He transforms our mind, we continue to understand Him more. And you know, it's interesting,

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I believe you, and I believe that you are seeking

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God, and that you want to truly know Him as He is. Yeah.

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But what I do believe at the same time is that the LDS Church is teaching something that contradicts who

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God really is. And the way that I would demonstrate that to you is by strictly reading the

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Bible and showing you what the Bible says, and asking you to read it yourself and show you, as I was talking to you a second ago, this is

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John 1, it says, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the

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Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him, nothing came into being that has come into being.

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And I know that the LDS Church doesn't teach that. It teaches that He is the first created being.

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Right? And that He created all things after He was created.

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But I would say, the Bible doesn't teach that, and I can demonstrate that more than just reading this one scripture to you.

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I can show you more scriptures, and that's what I want. I need to take a picture of this. Yeah. Because I, like I said,

35:14

I've never, oops, that's so mean. I've never thought, okay, well, if nothing was created, sometimes

35:32

I feel like in the Bible, it's hard to know which God they're talking about.

35:38

Like, God the Father? God the Spirit? I mean, sometimes it's very clear. You know,

35:43

Jesus Christ, that being baptized, says the Father. And other times it says the

35:49

Spirit, and it has their titles, but other times it says God. Right. So, like, sometimes I wonder, is it talking about God the

35:56

Father? In that scenario, is it? So, I just have to, like, study it.

36:02

Sure. Yeah. But, I literally, we've been talking for so long.

36:08

Would you be open, would you be open, if my pastor gave you a card, and we can, if you read these things, you wrestle with them, and you're like, let's talk a little bit more.

36:20

Hey, Pastor Wade? My brother, actually, might be interested. That'd be great. He doesn't believe in God.

36:28

So, but I've always kind of been like, you know. One of these? Yeah. Does this have your contact on here?

36:35

Text and email. This is my pastor, Pastor Wade. This is Bailey. Good to meet you, Bailey. I'm Wade. Yeah. Would you, you know, read some of these scriptures.

36:44

John 1, even the book of John, if you like reading, read through the book of John.

36:50

And there's so much in the book of John about Jesus being God. At one point, he says,

36:58

I, before Abraham was, I am. And in the

37:04

Old Testament, God says to Abraham, Abraham asked him, what's your name?

37:10

And he says, I am. Right? And Jesus refers to himself as I am.

37:17

Yes. The same language there. So he's saying that him and the

37:23

Father are one. Yeah. So, so yeah. But yeah, it was great talking to you.

37:29

Yeah. Please reach out. Yeah, you too, Bailey. I appreciate it. It's to see someone continue to just learn and also just be willing to share it with others as well.

37:41

Yeah. And I know we might differ. Like sometimes you were speaking and I was kind of like,

37:52

Yeah. And so when you say that the LDS Church, the Church of Jesus Christ doesn't believe in that.

37:58

No. I kind of like, but they don't teach that because that's what

38:03

I've like learned. And so I wonder if I, I just, I just wonder what the disconnect is there.

38:14

But I do know that you seem, and we both, I think, are just trying to get closer to Christ and the truth.

38:23

And so thank you. Yeah. It's not often that you get to have a conversation like that. Yeah. Where you actually get to like talk it out.

38:31

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We would love to do it some more. So please reach out to us. That'd be great. I'm going to read one. Also I have this too.

38:37

I go to Calvary City on a hill just down the street and we're doing Palm Sunday, Good Friday.

38:43

Oh, so wonderful. So that's just down right here. That's so great. And are you together? No, no.

38:49

He's, he's local. Yeah, but we're, that's right. It's a pretty, yeah. That's a bit lucky.