March 28, 2018 Show with Rich Jensen on “The Testimony of a Former Homicide Detective Now Pastoring in New York”

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Now here's our host Chris Arnton.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania.

Lake City, Florida.

And the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming and iron sharpens iron radio .com.

This is Chris Arntz and your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Wednesday on this

28th day of March 2018 and I'm so delighted to have back on the program

an old friend of mine one of my oldest Christian friends at least one of the Longest -running

Christian friends that still has anything to do with me.

And that happens to be pastor Richard Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church of Medford, Long Island,

New York.

Many may recognize that name from at least one of the debates that I organized.

With my friend our mutual friend. Dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega ministries.

He debated another mutual friend Pastor Bill Shishko of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church

of Franklin Square, Long Island, New York at that time.

Anyway, pastor bill is retired from the pastoral ministry and is now running a

parachurch organization titled Reformation Metro, New York.

But they debated on Infant versus believer only baptism and pastor Rich

Jensen was the moderator of that debate and that you may recall he was

ushering sanity into the event after my opening statements as the master of

ceremonies of that debate and it was great to have him participate

in that and many other events that I've been involved in and It's my honor and privilege to welcome you back

after a fairly long absence.

Pastor Rich Jensen.

Good to be back in your show.

Great.

And when you said I'm one year old you mean oldest chronologically.

I.

Wasn't referring to the your age I was referring to.

How long we have been in?

Continued Touch with each other in spite the distance we now have between us you

being in New York and me having moved to Pennsylvania.

But I'm hoping to get to see you during my next trip to New York, which I hope.

Perhaps will even be this summer when Tony Costa of Toronto Baptist Seminary returns

To hope reformed Baptist Church of Medford Long Island, but we'll get into that in a moment.

Before we get into your personal testimony because today the theme of iron sharpens iron radio is the testimony

of a former homicide detective now pastoring in New York.

Before we get to that tell our listeners about hope reform Baptist Church of Medford, Long Island.

Well hope reform Baptist Church was founded in 1996 right here in Central

Suffolk County in Long Island.

We are a 60 old church and

growing congregation.

Very evangelism and those type of things, but

Fulfilling the mission of our Lord to feed the hungry clothes type of things We

commands of the Lord very very serious.

A growing congregation as

believers that God has brought together here in Suffolk County and to see the the gospel played out in daily

life and.

From what I can remember.

I don't know if anything's changed, but I believe Hope reform Baptist Church of Medford Long Island

is the only confessionally reformed Baptist Church in Suffolk County and only one of two.

Confessionally reformed Baptist churches on Long Island.

I believe that's true.

I don't know of any other.

There are other reformed churches.

But as far as reformed Baptist and holding 89, I believe

there's only two of us.

Right.

In fact, I would even go as far To my knowledge as far as

confessionally reformed.

I think that you that would include the the five boroughs of New York City.

Yeah, I believe so.

I know that First Baptist Church of Manhattan is a reformed Baptist Church release the pastor I should say

Is a reformed Baptist and that church is quite a historic

Calvinistic Church, although it has not been Calvinist until the recent pastor Was

called it hadn't been Calvinist for probably 80 90 years or more But

in its history had been a reformed Baptist Church.

But I don't I don't know if they are confessional and I don't think they are so it's quite

An interesting thing that that still there are only two that we know of in the

Long Island and five boroughs of New York City and hopefully in the

in the not -so -distant future, there'll be baby churches planted and sister churches and so on

with that are confessionally reformed because you and I both Realized

the the importance of that.

Of course It's not something that's essential to salvation of any or anything like that.

But it is it is certainly something we view as important.

Otherwise, we wouldn't even bother being confessionally performed.

That's true.

I mean we are in the association and with fellowship I should say with many other churches on Long Island.

We do have which is made up of

mostly Calvinistic back and we have great fellowship and even plan these

different events with them and all.

You know, so we're not no churches, but but we do hold that

it is important.

But we do have great fellowship with other Reformed and like -minded churches, you know.

Who may not in fact.

Well before we go into your specific testimony about.

Having been a Suffolk County police officer and even a homicide detective and I

think even with the distinguishing Description added to that that you were

I believe the youngest homicide detective Appointed to that position in Suffolk County's history at that

time.

But before we even go into that Let's go all the way back to your childhood and hear

about the religion of your youth your own personal testimony of how the Lord

providentially drew you to himself and saved you and also how you came

to embrace the doctrines of sovereign grace or as they are commonly nicknamed Calvinism and

reformed theology.

Sure.

Well, I was.

I'm a second -generation American.

All four of my grandparents came over from Norway and Denmark.

So I am fully Scandinavian as they would say.

I would have loved to have seen the fights at the dinner table between the Norwegians.

And the Danish.

Yeah, it was interesting as far as

we know My parents knew we both sides of the

family were Christian in fact my grandfather on My mother's

side of the family Emigrated to the United States through Canada.

He first came to Canada with his wife and My mother was born in Saskatchewan

in a little town called Swift Current, Saskatchewan and then they moved down into Montana and North

Dakota and He was actually like an itinerant evangelist used to go on

horseback Administered to some of the Native American tribes as well as the frontiersman.

Wow out there.

That's back in the turn of the last century.

And this is a what area?

Montana North Dakota, okay, because the.

The building that houses or the building that is the home of iron sharpens iron radio is a 19th

century Presbyterian parsonage and.

The.

Pastor who lived here George Norcross Was the brother -in -law of

Sheldon Jackson the Reverend Sheldon Jackson who is in Time magazine's top 10

Alaskans of history because he Was a church planter

in Alaska and I think predominantly and the western coast of the United States

And perhaps even as far east as Pennsylvania, but I know that he used to visit his brother -in -law here in this

this building this parsonage and He had planted over a hundred churches and did

extensive work specifically with the Native Americans.

And the reason why he's in Time magazine's top 10 Alaskans of history is that he is the one that

imported Reindeer from Siberia to Alaska to rescue the Eskimos from a

famine there.

Oh, really, so just a little trivia that connected somehow with your own background.

But anyway, and my on my other side of the family My grandmother came through a

Norwegian nanny who was my grandfather who was

a very interesting came over on a Danish boat.

He was the he was the Dane in the family and Jump ship

actually come from a family of illegal illegal immigrants you might say but anyway, he jumped

ship over here, but later on did become a

he decided not to go back to Denmark on the ship that he came over with and that ship sunk and Everybody was lost on

Wow.

And He then took a job on a banana boat coming from Cuba up TV up to

New York.

Did one run and that didn't like it that ship left that ship sunk.

Wow.

Yeah, so he decided that he wasn't going to see anymore.

And that must have been hard for a Danish person to say he's never going back to see.

But anyway, so so he settled in New York and my father.

Grew up in the streets of New York City.

I was

what particular.

Denomination or theological affiliation.

Well, I would.

I was Christian.

Does the baby loot in the Lutheran Brethren?

So which is.

Not not part of the state church the Lutheran but it's Norwegians to be

Lutheran Brethren, especially out in Wisconsin, Minnesota.

And out that way and as the Missouri Senate Senate as the Missouri Senate Lutherans would say the Lutheran

Brethren are neither Lutheran nor Brethren.

1950 I was raised out here.

We went to a congregational church and I made a profession of faith when I was very very

young about secure and I had the the blessing of growing up in a very

Christian home at that time you you would it was actually fundamentalist.

Like I grew

up that way

everything, you know by

all camp counselor at the Pinebrook Bible Conference.

That was Percy Crawford.

Yeah, so I mean I just

grew up in it in

that Christian of everybody.

I was a Christian any time.

Then I wound up going on.

I come from a very

New York City Police Department in in the 1930s.

He retired in a bay in the mid 1960s.

Then my brother Became a Suffolk County

Police son follows me.

We have another my other nephew is

pretty much all the department as well.

And it was during that time that I

just totally

not the youngest homicide, but I was the youngest

detective I made and you

can't even do that anymore in the suffragette.

You have to have and that's when

The law or and I completely walked away from

the faith.

Can you please?

As much as you care to share, of course.

Let us know about some of the specific things that you believe were catalysts and you leaving the faith.

And of course you and I being reformed we would say that that you must not have been.

Regenerate prior to that.

Well as I look back on it now, I think for sure I was not regenerate.

My wife disagrees with me, but I don't think I was regenerate at that time.

I thought that your wife said you were still were not regenerate.

And.

Again, I agree with you as somebody

in our

church says the tea is true.

In fact, I have a don't mess around.

But so I mean I understand that that I am absolutely

responsible

no fundamentalist

to

that and

yet they would be doing it.

You know and and even they were fast and loose with the scripture.

They obviously taught the inerrancy of the scripture, but then when you would ask them specific questions, well,

well, how about this?

You know.

And.

They would like dantically negate what you know, what

this doesn't really mean that.

You know, and it was just such a poor hermeneutic and and again.

You know from with my background being, you know in college being a math science major and whatnot and then going into

you know.

Evaluating evidence and whatnot.

I just realized that you know with what if if that brand of Christianity was true.

It was lacking so I guess I just used that it was a way

basically.

I mean, I know I was doing what I wanted to

do.

I mean on the

outside the exterior.

It was great because I was living the life of.

What you would see of a television detective.

I was working undercover.

It was a

department and and I

knew it.

Yes, in fact, there's another thing that you and I have in common.

Is that I was raised Roman Catholic and Although I believe

the Church of Rome is a false church. I still had some rudimentary

Understanding of truth in regard to God the Trinity

of course not understanding the Trinity and still don't completely understand it, but believing that with certainty that

Jesus Christ is God and when I when I abandoned the faith

Not in any kind of formal way, but just drifting away completely and living a very rebellious life I

had that annoying haunting guilt because I was not like a lot of people Who say I don't believe in

that stuff and you know, but God doesn't exist and when you're dead you just rot in

the dirt or they might even say Everybody's going to heaven or I can't wait to get the hell to be with my

friends who have already died or whatever.

So we can party all day in hell all that kind of nonsense all those lives but

I Had that annoying guilt just as you did.

I'd never had a Scott free Leisurely life of sin that did not

involve guilt and knowing and haunting guilt.

Yeah, and and you know, it was funny because even in my unregenerate state I

Had been going for an engineering degree.

Electronic engineering that was my preference when I was sidetracked and became a cop and obviously I see the

providence of God and all of that but it was my own teachers my own science teachers in the university

that who were trying to teach evolution and I just saw the bankruptcy of that

system.

So, I mean I always knew that there would that God was there I and I believed that Jesus Christ

was his son.

Believed what the Bible taught.

I just didn't like what I saw in the church as as hypocrisy is.

You know running fast and loose with the scripture, you know trying to twist it make it say what you wanted to say

to fit a particular and.

And then when you asked the pointed question, you just got danced around.

So like I say, it's what I needed to give me the excuse to do what I really wanted to do in my

in my black Heart anyway, you know.

So so in fact, it is funny I could I could be sitting in a barstool

one too many Bill and by being after one too many and somebody

would would take the name of the Lord in vain.

I think he's knocked it off.

Huh, cuz it just would bother me to hear somebody take the Lord's name in vain.

I mean I'd use any I would use any other curse, you know typical of the police.

But I would never take the name of the Lord in vain because I just hmm.

I can't say I know anything about sitting on a barstool or having too much.

That is

the interesting part and again I

can see uses things.

When I was a child, I had a pretty good memory all right,

and Anyway,

I would memorize Bible verses for prizes.

I can VBS going to camp and things like that.

So I would memorize literally hundreds of Bible verses When I was in my You know early

years like with 10 12 years old.

So I memorized the entire chap

and tinfoil armor and I recited so I mean I had

this capacity to to memorize scripture.

And it was praise God

woke up one morning.

And again from from an external point of view.

I had a pretty good life.

There was no tragedy.

Nothing.

I was I had I was living in a condominium on a golf course

already made detective sergeant at this time and I so I mean I was rising through the ranks.

Everything was looking great for me.

And I woke up one morning sat on the edge of my bed and I looked around and it just hit me.

What are you doing?

You like, you know better than this and what happened was all those scriptures that I had memorized

as a child were coming

that night.

In fact that morning.

I mean watch my bed.

I kneeled praise God

and then again you talk

about how gracious and God can be we

had a

pretty good relationship.

We have it wasn't all you

know, I called her up.

Did you

have to remember?

That is hard to imagine.

Yeah, I mean it's I look at the picture, you know I had a different leisure suit for

every day of the week a complete with a pair of patent leather shoes of the colors to.

Match.

You look at it nowadays.

You say what was I thinking but anyway.

So I

walked

into her bedroom and I sat on the edge of the bed.

He said yeah.

Sure.

Will you marry me?

Wow?

Now you have to remember something.

There was a woman who had been praying for me and Praying that the Lord

would bring me back because she really believed that we were meant to be together.

In fact, let me repeat your line.

What were you thinking?

What was she thinking?

Yeah, and and here's.

You know,

here's now.

You have to remember she had been praying for years that I would.

Now here's the answer to her prayer.

Which kind

of

shocked

me.

Wow.

Wow.

That's not even including the time that you were married before the divorce.

No, we.

What we do though is we.

We keep our the anniversary of our first marriage.

Wow, and we always do someone right?

So well for anybody who has not met ginger Jensen She is quite a remarkably beautiful

woman beautiful inside and outside and Just a sweet Christ like

lady.

It's always a joy to see her and God has obviously blessed you enormously with a wife like

that.

Wow, that's amazing, especially after the number of decades you've been married.

Sure.

That's not.

I'm sure that's not all that typical even in Christian marriages.

Unfortunately.

Yeah.

I'll tell you one of the keys since you have a date night.

That's great week every single week.

Wow.

In fact, you have told me that when I've called you to do something or other either be on the show or whatever.

Oh, no.

Got the date night with my wife.

And in fact that's something that I do and I do a lot of marriage counseling and One of the reason ginger

and I had gone through and so we can not only give them

and that

is one of them.

Just the idea of setting time aside once a week or you can always get a

sitter for the kids.

I mean, we're very much into family ten grandchildren one on

the way.

But together.

You have and you have to cut out because the marriage is is the basic of the other family unit and if you don't have a Good

marriage the family is going to suffer.

Yeah, I would just encourage any of your listeners, you know.

Set set time apart is so here you are.

Having become a born -again believer having had your marriage

Restored your your relationship with your wife after having been divorced

being restored and reunited in marriage and How does this?

Call from the Lord to become a pastor.

Begin to enter into your heart and mind.

That I guess that's another interesting Question because what what happened was The

pastor that remarried us.

I'm gonna tell you his name.

He's home with the Lord now.

His name was Ken for just in Port Jefferson.

Yeah.

Where you were once a member and an elder you

were remarried we start between my home church and and that church and

that we were Graviton was he had a ministry to to pastors.

He was somewhat of a police chaplain.

So he loved cops and he actually performed a ceremony.

Married ginger bouncing back and forth and we decided

to the church.

We wanted to to be in.

So and he and I just developed this this great relationship and

and Well number one I

became a deacon.

All right, which in if you remember the old conservative Baptist model, they had deacons and trustees.

So the right things were kind of like elders.

The trustees were kind of like biblical deacons, right?

So I remember they they came to me in the deacon.

Because by this time I'd gotten to promote

if you don't what I

do for a little getting in fights I'm knocking people

around that's a perfect reform Baptist elder.

And and I looked around at some of the other deacons, you know, and they were.

You know, they were they were older men.

I can't

I can this is not for me and

prayed about it and and anything a.

Couple other things happened and I won upset sitting with the pastor and he convinced me that.

You know if so many people in the church saw that this this in me that I should take it.

So I did.

I Accepted it and I became a deacon in the church.

He also started something and this is what is really near and dear to my heart and

it's in my church group

of men who desired to To dig into

it and possibly preach in tea

he had.

He he saw this in me.

I I wasn't even pursuing it at that time.

So he asked me if I wanted to be a part.

Yeah, I said that that I would I would love to

do that mentoring us and

That's how I actually wound up coming into the ministry was through this mentoring process.

I did take some courses not you know today you call them online but back in those day

correspondence course.

Correspondence courses along with what he was teaching.

It was mentored into the ministry.

I don't I don't have that seminary degree.

I am ordained and we went through that whole process, but that's how I came in and

it was during that.

That in fact was

infant evangelist come to the church

and he was billed as the next Billy.

He preached this Sunday morning and he did a fantastic job.

All right, he's supposed to come back to preach again and they asked me if I would give my testimony.

I said, yeah,

sure.

I come that night.

Turns out the evangelist gets sick and he can't make it so the pastor says can you

stretch out your testimony

and Apparently it touched a lot of people and he came to me afterwards.

He says you God has given you a gift you you need to start

and so from that point on he started teaching me how to preach, you know homiletics hermit

type of things and.

And I started put supply in many different churches.

That's how that's how that came in.

In fact, let's let's let's pick up right where you left off there when you're doing pulpit supply because we have to go to our First break.

Okay, if anybody would like to join us our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com chris

arnzen at gmail .com.

If you have a question for our guest Rich Jensen and Please give us your first name your city and state in

your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous.

If your question involves a personal and private matter, that's CHRI s

Arnzen at gmail .com and we'll be right back with pastor Rich Jensen and more

of his testimony of.

Having been a homicide detective and now pastoring in New York right after these messages

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We are back to our guest today pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform Baptist Church

of Medford Long Island and He is giving his testimony as a former homicide detective

now pastoring in New York.

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pastor Rich as you may recall you were talking about how there was a guest speaker at the church where you were a

member and You were asked to give a very brief testimony of your

salvation and Then when the guest speaker Called in sick as it were

use the pastor said hey, can you really stretch this this?

This testimony out which you did and then your gifts for speaking public speaking were

recognized and you were urged to begin to preach I think that's where we left off.

Oh, and then you started to do pulpit supply.

Yes, that's correct.

I was doing pulpit that's what happened

and that at the

same time We started attending every year the moody Bible

in conference.

I was always Memorial Day weekend and it was at the same time that That

we did the pay was mentoring and we started going to the moody Bible Institute

you know the best -named preachers of the time and

Deacons, you know of churches and it was going to that tonight

to ministry.

And I never dreamed

I had already been well, let me just back up a little bit.

I'd mentioned just briefly that during this time.

It was in fact was in 1979 that I Was given the opportunity as a detective

sergeant.

I was transferred into the homicide squad.

We kind of liked it the job that every Detective sergeant would love to have

because you're working with them

and I loved it.

I was 110 I loved every minute of it and Even my wife,

you know, I mean I

would mean if I got a

call yet She understood you

so so that

right at the epitome of my career and yet I started Believing that I was not

going to do this forever.

And I had originally thought when I became a cop that I became a cop when I was 21 years old

and September Came on the job in October.

So, I mean I had I mean theoretically I could started

to get involved with the Shepherds group

and and then

preach started exercising.

The gift of and teaching more and

more so I I was but

then on the other hand I really mean bringing the word

of truth, especially knowing what how God had saved me.

And by the way, I did not believe the doctrines of

grace.

Oh, I thought you said you were already saved at this point.

I.

Was I just didn't know how.

So anyway, so I

somewhat

can play

as

the gift of born -again

was a Calvinist and he

regenerated.

You're born again.

You reason you repent.

And I argued vehemently.

It wasn't proper to have two

deacons arguing in a Sunday through class.

So.

And he was a man that I respect to the class.

Suggested that I I

had never heard of before and I know none of you listen.

Rich said that tongue -in -cheek ladies and.

He had

74 messages

and so I had started listening to those and the next thing

in and The interesting and

I'm getting a little bit ahead of you're not supposed to do

that right after the order of Saludos.

But I

Told you I got a great memory.

She's very short.

No, so anyway, I Became reformed in Been

pretty much every sense I understood cover but I was just never convinced of that

over there was always nagging that you know, I remained in the in

the I had become

and Time went on and

now my time towards Retirement is getting there.

I was reaching my 20 years and my wife and I were really discussing it and we just really believed

That God was calling as much as I

was looking to go on

them.

I know what wound

up we taught different things going in mission field

and none of them fit.

It was like dead -end.

So I wound up working.

I had I started a construct be Norwegian world

and meanwhile are the the

pastor my

was one and He and I got along very well, but I had stepped out I was no longer a deacon in the

church because I was again I was very conflicted because I knew some of the theology that was being taught.

I just didn't believe it anymore.

And so the time came how

come

you've never preached

since I've been here.

Well, I'm going away on vacation and and God's

beach in my home

church.

My daughter and I my oldest five years old at the time.

We wound up in a head -on collision and she was taken.

She she was taken by the way rich.

Can you I'm sorry.

We have to go to another break.

So, can you pick up right off you after this head -on collision and we return course if anybody would like to join us.

This is a longer break than normal because grace life radio 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida requires a

12 -minute break between our two main segments.

So, please be patient.

Take this time to write down the information that our advertisers provide During this lengthy break

and also write your questions to pastor Rich Jensen.

And there are some of you already waiting to have your questions asked and answered.

We'll get to you as soon as possible.

And that email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com if you'd like to join those who are already online.

The question.

That's Chris Arnzen at gmail .com and God willing.

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CV BBS Comm just a couple of more announcements before we return to our discussion with

Rich Jensen who is pastor of Hope Reform Baptist Church In Medford, Long Island, New York and is also a

former homicide detective who came to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ.

Before we get back to that the Alliance of confessing evangelicals wants you to know.

About two events that are actually the same event in two locations.

It's the Philadelphia Conference on Reform Theology, which is no longer held in Philadelphia, but just named that out.

Of.

Reminiscence of the dear late Brother James Montgomery Boyce now spending eternity with Christ

who had this conference annually at the 10th Presbyterian Church in Philadelphia Pennsylvania.

Now the the locations include the first Christian Reform Church of Byron Center, Michigan and

The second location will be the Proclamation Presbyterian Church of Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania a lot closer to

Philadelphia.

That's the one I intend to go to.

To represent iron sharpens iron radio.

The dates for the the Byron Center, Michigan location are April 13th through

the 15th.

The dates for the Proclamation Presbyterian Church and by Bryn Mawr, Pennsylvania are April

27th through the 29th.

The theme is the spirit of the age and the age of the spirit and The speakers include Daniel Aiken Richard

Gaffin Daniel Hyde, and I'm sure that my guest today Rich Jensen will concur

that one of the greatest living preachers on alive today on the planet Earth is Conrad M Bayway

and He is pastor of Kibwata Baptist Church in Lusaka, Zambia, Africa.

He is one of the speakers there Richard Phillips also a friend of mine from Second Presbyterian Church in

Greenville, South Carolina Jonathan master David Murray who have also both been on this program and Scott

Oliphant of Westminster Theological Seminary who I am trying to get on this program and hopefully will soon.

If you'd like to register Go to Alliance net org Alliance net org click on events and then click on

Philadelphia conference on Reform theology the spirit of the age and the age of the spirit right now.

It's actually the at the very top of their calendar when you click on events.

Please tell the folks at the Alliance of confessing evangelicals that you heard about this event or these two events I should say

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Whether it's your church your parachurch organization your business your professional practice with your a doctor a lawyer a dentist a

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Whether it's just a special event that you're promoting as long as whatever it is.

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Chris Arnzen at gmail .com to send us an email with a question for our guest pastor Rich Jensen of Hope Reform

Baptist Church of Long Island, New York he is giving his testimony as a former homicide detective

who is now pastoring in New York and We would love to hear with you from you with your questions at Chris

Arnzen at gmail .com.

And there are already some waiting to have their questions asked and answered.

But we will get to you after the completion of pastor Rich's testimony and before the break

pastor Rich.

You were talking about something pretty frightening that you and daughter you and your daughter were involved in a head -on collision.

That's correct.

Just before I continue with that Chris you had mentioned

that let me just add a word.

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Wow, that's a great thing that I will

tell Todd and Patty Jennings the owners of CBB BS that you gave him such a nice commercial and also James

Adams who I want to Get on this show.

Specifically to discuss an excellent tract.

He wrote Decisional Regeneration, which he is obviously opposed to being a Reformed Baptist.

But you can continue now with your.

Okay.

So yeah, so what had happened was we run away home from church on a Sunday before I was scheduled to preach.

We wound up in a head -on collision a woman Pulled over right in front of us across

and on the way to the hospital.

We were both in the same ambulance my daughter we were holding hands and They started talking about

the squeezing my

hand so I knew that she was still with he was fine.

She did suffer some injuries nothing.

Life -threatening, but it was raised in the hospital

and not preaching the following Sunday, but I

said no.

I still wanted to do it and I just worked it out that I used the the

accident as a part of my sermon illustration.

What had happened was?

During that week my daughter.

I mean if I had died What would it

happen to me and like as issues about and

my wife used the opportunity to?

To just give her the gospel.

And she left he crawled up the stairs.

She couldn't walk yet, but she

wanted to repent of her sin and then she did and uh from that moment on and i'm

Absolutely convinced because she should have stayed married to her.

I said that

was the salvation at that time that was part of my message and so I

preached and after the

I got a call from the the chairman of the deacon.

They wanted they were telling me we had been looking for a new take

on a job as uh.

They wanted to offer it to me and now this

was and my first response was no.

I mean, you know, I'd lived a pretty rough life

didn't see myself as a church captain

I'll cut accepting it.

And in fact it was god's

given and I

said she

and I said

no.

She says do you remember what you

prayed?

I said well refresh my memory.

She said you prayed lord.

She says now you have a position.

You want to be in christian ministry you want to you know do something and you're saying no

we discussed it further.

And again putting in biblical principles of value.

We decided that and you

were already a

calvinist at that point.

I was a calvinist and the pastor the new pastor was not.

In fact, he was pretty much an old line.

Uh dispensation and and arminian because obviously there are

dispensationalists who are calvinists.

Yeah, he uh, he claimed to be a three and a half point calvinist.

Which means he's an arminian.

And uh.

So but but and we had

a.

I had declared money because I

had never at this point I had never even heard of the 1699.

Remember, I mean my whole.

Uh.

You know, my whole life had been in based arminian

churches

and a mutual acquaintance.

Refers me to a man who I know you're very familiar with.

Uh, because this is at the same.

This is the time chris that you and I first uh first met right?

In fact, I was at your ordination service.

Uh, you're a coordination.

Um exam I should say.

Yeah.

Yeah I like the way that you said that.

Yeah.

In fact, do you remember the irony of when I was being uh ordained?

The the council you probably don't remember my wife pointed it out because it was open for the congregation.

They could come in and see the examination and there were 12 pastors.

Only two of whom were reformed.

The rest were dispensational.

And and most of them arminian right and it was

using a classroom in the church.

And uh as i'm explaining my doctrinal position, I was surrounded by tulips.

I think I remember You mentioning that after now that you said that I think yeah.

I just just one of those little ironies, you know.

Here I am expounding the doctrines of grace to basically arminians and i'm surrounded by tulips.

But but anyway, it was that.

Oh, yeah.

My first pastor as a born -again believer and the man who dumped me in the waters of baptism.

Yeah.

Well, I met him at a because at that time he was uh part of a conservative

and we met at a conservative.

Again, we were looking for when we found each other, you

know, we i'll never forget mike after a few Uh initial

conversations we had he says by the way rich.

Where where do you stand theologically?

And this is again, I was thoroughly reformed.

I definitely become covenantal in my theology.

But I had rejected paedo -baptism.

I just could not see that tongue -in -cheek I said to him I guess

you might call me a reformed baptist.

Okay.

And he and he looked at me and he says well, that's what I am.

And I my mouth dropped open.

I said you mean there really is such a thing.

Ha ha ha.

And he said yeah, he says that's what he says.

He says any 1689.

And he says have you ever read the 1689?

He never even heard of it.

And again, because you understand that the churches I was in that was not something that would would have been put forth right and

so.

Uh, I I accepted it and I I and i'll never forget my wife will never

forget it either because I was reading it.

We were sitting we were sitting in bed.

You know, we that was one of our big things is sitting and every time i'd read

another chapter I'd I'd nudge.

I said wait, wait, listen, listen to this.

Listen to this.

I said, this is what we believe.

And I was like totally stunned that there was this document written in 1689.

And it's exactly what I believe the bible taught.

And uh on the journey of becoming a reformed baptist.

Yeah, and then I can recall.

Uh due to the friendship that you had forming between my my first pastor mike

adosh.

And yourself, uh, and also mike adosh as most of our listeners will know.

Who listen regularly?

He is the founder of solid grand christian books one of the key sponsors of this program.

But uh as a result of this friendship and as a result of the

strain that was Existing between the other pastor who

disagreed with you vehemently on theology the The birth of a new congregation was in the

works.

That's correct.

Yeah, the uh.

Yeah.

The relationship between the the other pastor and myself just started to deteriorate and believe it or not.

It wasn't so much the theology per se and my declared, you know

being Uh, you know reformed and it was actually

again uh coming into reformed theology understanding the sufficient.

And and understanding that it has all the answers for life and god is the only infallible source

I had become thoroughly newthetic or biblical in my counseling practices.

And that is it just can't it just.

And in fact again I have to credit my

wife, you know.

My wife was such a godly woman when we were really going through difficulties

as a way of I was questioning whether or not I could stay and she looked

at me.

She said well, let me ask you a question.

If you weren't a pastor here, would you?

And I had to

answer wow,

so I tendered my resignation on the ides of march.

You can read into that whatever you like.

But but again interestingly enough and you talk about god's providence and again.

You know, I I don't want to give any listeners a wrong impression.

We don't make decisions based evidence

makes an excellent diary, but it's a terrible roadmap, you know.

Oh, that's a great saying.

I've never heard that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so I I did not make decisions based upon god's providence on what

did but again providentially.

Right after I had tended my resignation.

I took a group of kids from our church down to uh grace reform baptist in meric.

Uh and conrad and bayway was the guest speaker that night praise god.

They had just come back from a reform baptist mission society meeting in lafayette, new jersey.

And here's the interesting thing after this.

I went up and I talked to mike gadosh.

And uh, mike asked me how this what do

you plan on doing?

I said well, that's why I wanted to talk to you.

I said because planting, uh, you know confessional

Reform baptist church in suffolk county.

And his mouth dropped turns out that and this I

had they had three years,

right?

I remember they'd had bible studies and nothing clicked.

At the rbms meeting which was just the day before reform baptist mission society,

right?

Mike had asked the men to pray so they had like about 15 20 guys and they prayed.

That grace would be able to plant a reform baptist church in suffolk county the next day I show up and

say hey mike, by the way, i'd like

and grace actually was the

Uh the sending church and we

planted uh, hope reform baptist church in

1996.

Moved once we've

and we've

been established.

And by the way,

you're a former.

Co -pastor at hope reform baptist church of medford, long island.

Uh, larry.

Soviero.

I had a wonderful time of fellowshipping with him after many years.

Over a decade, I think uh of Of not seeing him.

He was at the g3 conference in atlanta, georgia where I had an iron sharpens iron exhibitors

booth and and.

And he and mike gadosh and I and suzy gadosh All had a wonderful time of fellowship.

So it was great to see pastor larry.

Yeah.

Well, we're going to be going to our final break and when we return we'll start taking some of our listener questions.

And posing them to rich jensen a pastor of hope reform baptist church of medford, long island,

new york.

And a former homicide detective.

And if anybody would like to get in line our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris arnzen at gmail .com, please Give us your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the usa.

And please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter.

Don't go away.

God willing.

We'll be right back after this very brief commercial break.

Charles haddon spurgeon once said Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid ground christian books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the prince of preachers to heart.

The mission of solid ground christian books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to christians in the present and

future.

And to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001 Solid ground has been committed to publish god -centered christ exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com.

That's solid -ground -books .com.

And see what priceless literary gems from the past to present you can unearth from solid ground.

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Hi, i'm pastor bill shishko inviting you to tune into a visit to the pastor's study every saturday

from 12 noon to 1 p .m Eastern time on wlie radio

www .wlie540am .com.

We bring biblically faithful pastoral ministry to you.

And we invite you to visit the pastor's study by calling in with your questions.

Our time will be lively Useful and I assure you never dull join us this saturday at 12 noon

eastern time for a visit to the pastor's study because.

Everyone needs a pastor and thank you bill shishko for Reminding me of what a wonderful

idea it would be to interview our mutual friend pastor rich jensen.

Of hope reform baptist church medford long island on his own testimony, which after all these years of knowing

pastor rich.

And interviewing him on a number of occasions.

I can't remember if we had ever spent a full program.

Getting your testimony perhaps on the old show.

We did in long island, but or on long island I should say but uh I don't.

I don't recall whether that was the case or not, but i'm glad that we're doing it now anyway.

And if you'd like to join us on the air.

Our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com if you have a question for pastor rich jensen.

And by the way, also remember if you listen to.

A visit to the pastor's study which airs every saturday from 12 noon to 1 p

.m. Eastern time on wlie radio.

If you call into the show because it is a live call -in show.

Uh, please tell pastor bill shishko that you heard about his program from chris arnzen on iron sharpens iron radio.

And I also want to welcome once again Pastor bill and a visit to the pastor's study to the all new

First love radio, which is now the new live -streaming home of iron

sharpens iron radio.

And I am so delighted that pastor joe jackowitz and all the folks out there in dublin,

california.

Have enthusiastically invited me and welcomed me on to their Radio lineup with first love

radio.

We pray that the lord has many years of partnership for the gospel awaiting us.

And now we are back uh to our discussion with pastor rich jensen.

On his testimony of a former homicide detective now pastoring in new york.

We have bb in cumberland county, pennsylvania.

Who has a question for you bb says I have spoken with the ex

-wives of some police officers.

Who complained that a big part of the struggles in their marriages?

And the violence that occurred in their marriages was because of the fact that the husbands who were police

officers.

Grew to distrust everyone as a result of dealing with criminals on a daily

basis.

Is this something that you have found to be a prevalent phenomenon?

And is it something that you had to overcome or battle as a christian and now a pastor?

That that's an excellent question and i'm glad that that was brought up.

Um.

Yes, there is certainly an element to that when you.

You know in the detectives with you get more involved.

It's not just a couple hour into the

cases and you're seeing it.

Cynicism is something that is rampant in the police.

You wind up with a mentality.

It's us and them.

You know, if you're not wearing a badge, you know that can certainly one of

the things and again my career

I was saying here

again.

I would have told

in how

I responded.

I spent most

that helped me immensely.

Again coming to the reform doctrines and and understanding god's sovereignty and seeing it you could make that.

You could detach from that.

And and focus on christ just that much more

difficult of counseling.

Uh with many of the men that worked for me.

Because they were whining.

And what you find out with cops too, it's not only even just dealing with with bad guys and and

seeing how deceit and the deception the manipulation.

And not even just a real

and seeing how many people were cheating on each other and whatnot.

And you just see that and it's very easy to get a cynical view of life in general.

When you're when you're

christian that the answer is

jesus in my decision.

Well, thank you

bb.

Uh, we have.

Uh rj in white plains, new york.

And who has a question?

In fact, you just touched on it a little bit rj.

Asks.

What did your christianity?

Contribute for the better to your police work.

And what did your police work contribute to the better to your pastoring?

Oh, I

love be driving red

light whole time.

I'm doing that.

I'm praying we understand that.

You know.

And that's also an effect in his image.

So even in fact, even the guys who are not they'd walk

around saying in fact, one of

the men had his door shall not kill.

Wow, yeah.

So, I mean we had that idea but then being a christian and being able to uh to put biblical principles involved

in it.

Definitely made me a better police officer and even in the interrogation of

the many many interrogations of murderers.

Uh and being able to to look I think and given the insight and understanding the depravity of man.

Uh, it it made me a better cop and then dealing with the men that that

I all of the men that worked for me.

And they were by far a tremendous record and

I always said people in homicide and I

in the squad, you know.

And in the department and but I could deal with them and they

knew they so that certainly helped me

and the other side.

Coming into the pastorate

I mean, I I've seen and heard it all, you know, i've come against the the best con men in the world,

you know.

So if you come into me for counseling,

you know

and seeing it firsthand there.

Now we have an opportunity to help.

So I think having been in homicide and.

Always.

Like being the one who's mine to prevent things from

happening to help people before they get so bad and I think.

Just that

person

and

always

looking

amen.

So I

think I

have I I really have compassion.

For people who are going through struggles again having seen

it.

Amen.

And I can say that uh as one who was under church discipline for my

Abuse of alcohol my return to alcohol abuse after 18 years of sobriety.

Uh having you as one of those involved in my discipline I know firsthand

that when you approached me you did not react as this.

Was some kind of a big shock because you have seen everything under the sun.

And you were firm.

Uh, but you were also uh compassionate and christ -like and had the uh demeanor of a brother in

christ.

In spite of any firmness that you demonstrated.

Well, you know again, I mean on on my own life and I

see for the things that I did.

How can you become.

Yeah, that's an unfortunate reality for people in and outside the church of the the self

-righteousness and of course I'm assuming that you would uh believe and agree that

that is.

Can be rampant amongst police officers.

Oh, oh, absolutely.

You know, like I say you you develop that uh,

that mentality the you know.

It's such to them.

No, no and

nobody understands and we talk about we

we need christian.

Amen.

So that they can deal with.

Amen.

Uh, we have uh.

Let's see here.

We have Christian in suffolk county long island new york who says

Did any of your fellow police officers while you were still on the force began?

To distrust your capabilities as a police officer when you became a christian.

Thinking that you might be too soft.

Uh, no, I don't think I I came across that interesting enough.

I think the thing I came across Mostly was they didn't think that my christianity was going to last.

I had one friend of my good friend of mine and I mean this is the guy that I you know, we we actually.

But he just looked at me and he said, you know jensen he says One of these days you're going to fall because I know you got it in you.

And and he didn't do it to be mean.

You know because we really had a good relationship and I just look at him and i'd say mike.

You know what?

Every one of us has it in the fall.

I says by that we can continue.

And that's the way I in fact quite frankly, I think

Living out the face by standing in front of

I I was able to

gospel message to every man that worked for me at one point or another.

I didn't and

At one time another every man that was assigned to me in homicide Came to me and asked me to pray for

something or to you know.

They needed advice that they needed counsel on something and they knew that they could see the difference in.

You know how my family they wouldn't have called it god's grace, but

they knew the situation.

That was the thing Being saved midway through my

career and then to see

what happened and the change in me.

Uh, that just gave me praise god.

Uh, let's see here.

We have an anonymous listener who says I know this May require much

longer period of time than is now available to you For the remainder of this radio

show, but I was wondering If there are any signs when you are

counseling married couples or involved in any other kind of A

situation where you are conversing with people in the church who have problems perhaps especially

when they are under discipline.

Are there any telltale signs that you can pick up on where you can clearly see?

That the person is being dishonest as you mentioned earlier.

Not that you will have a hundred percent Accuracy or infallibility in this but I was just curious what you have

to say about that.

That that's.

That's something you that that is very difficult to teach to somebody else as well.

I mean you can take courses like for example in interrogation and in interview techniques and.

Uh, you even see, you know, you see this a lot on television today where they have.

Supposedly the experts that you know, and they can just pick, you know, and

you know, no.

There's no one there's no set thing that you can look at and just determine.

Oh the person's lying because of that.

It's it's it's a whole general Atmosphere that you see, you know, how do

they answer the questions?

What do they do?

What's their body language?

And you got to put it all together because.

And you have to and this is why it takes time too.

I can think of for example uh one one person

and.

This guy gave or his last smiling inappropriately.

Smiling at times when he shouldn't have smiled.

I mean you you could who was

lying.

All right and uh.

And and then he tells us he gives us two names Billy the kid and johnny

ringo.

These are

the guys who turns out he had

some inappropriate behavior.

He had some mental mental issues.

When it turns out the man was 100 accurate.

Wow.

The two names that he gave us which we thought people, you know, wow

and.

And every one of us and i'm talking about my whole team.

We were like flabbergasted because this guy had us completely thrown off.

And so something like that can happen.

That's why you have to really.

It's not just what you see in the interrogation.

But you have to match that with when you

have people sitting in front of you.

You have to ask the questions and you go through things.

But you can't just take that.

You have to relate that to what do you see?

How do you know these people respond when

they came in

they came in holding hands?

And telling me how much in love they were.

You know.

And after about 10 minutes of interrogation, she was screaming.

I can't stand him.

He got my skin crawls when he touches me, you know.

So it's it's it's a question of getting to know the question and

whatnot this so the bible gives

actually the

report and

then you have to

apply those to real life circumstances and Use

that issue

and

then you have some people who can just fool you that are that

are excellent liars.

One thing that I wanted to ask you about, uh, I am fascinated when I hear about false

confessions and the one of them that really.

Is.

Vividly in my mind is the Attempted murder the rape and attempted murder

of the central park jogger.

You remember that.

Obviously I do.

And you had all these young men who confessed and when you're watching the videotape Of the

confessions.

They do not look like they're making something up.

They They don't they're telling the story with vivid detail and

very relaxed.

They don't look like they've been coerced to say these things.

They don't look like they've been beaten or anything like that.

They don't look like they're frightened.

They're just casually spewing the story as if they're

talking about a tv show they saw that afternoon or.

Whatever that they're they're describing and they're with very calmly.

I mean, what how do you what do you make of that?

Human psyche is very very complex and

experienced trained Investigators

you can actually

by giving too much information.

And people under duress can make false confessions.

I mean, it's obviously we've seen that that happened and that's

why

I rule for

that and Not only that but for the forensics and everything else.

And we were schooled on how to interrogate people without Suggesting things and putting things into the mouth, but just

getting out with what they have in there

unfortunately what untrained people.

And they they make

green.

There's presuppositionalism coming into play.

Yeah, that's why you really need and especially in homicide.

Uh, you need trained that's one of the problems.

And somebody they'll get a homicide every two three years.

And then you're expecting these guys to to do that.

You can't do that.

We have uh, joe in banger, maine.

I'm, sorry, john in banger, maine.

Who?

Asks, do you have any words?

For those who have been witnessing the police being vilified over and over and over

again in the media because of either accidental or intentional

Shootings of perpetrators and so on that have caused riots and all kinds

of protest demonstrations.

And the hatred of the police seems to be spreading nationwide.

What do you have to say?

To the listeners today in regard to this

phenomena and

protecting people and trying to do the right thing.

And and I think that the vast majority of the cops that you have out there Are in exactly that same position.

They're they're good men good women and they're they're trying to do a good job more and

more by uh by Uh administrations, you know, you're having more and more,

uh impact, you know county executives

and whatnot who are putting uh into place actually

handcuff the police and uh, and then everything that they do you

have the media who who will just put it's

automatically an unjust shooting.

And that's the reality that we live in.

What can we do about it?

Um start let's start electing some people who are who have men and women of prince.

We have I mean if you look at

suffolk county.

We have more corruption trials underway now the former nassau county executive is being charged with corruption.

We've we've got you know Chiefs of police and I mean all kinds of things like that are happening.

And are allowing these things that the general attitude

and so it's

not because the quality of the men has changed.

Hmm and uh, obviously, uh as much as we should look up to the

Policemen who are risking their lives policemen and women who are risking their lives every day uh

that uh also has to be combined with.

Uh.

Not giving the the uh, the idea that a policeman because of his badge has the freedom to do things

Uh that are really outside the bounds of what? is legally

expected of him and there are abuses as i'm sure that you would agree.

And and uh.

Perhaps not as much as there were in decades past Uh where there was unnecessary

violence, uh Uh against perpetrators and so on.

But if you could just comment on that that that kind of double -edged sword there.

Uh,.

Yeah, I mean Yeah, you know, let me let me put it this

what what do we need in this in this nation?

That's going to turn this around.

It's not another council.

It's not another layer.

It's it's not the fed.

What's needed in this country is revival.

Amen, the only thing that is going to change the current status of our society is when

hearts are converted to jesus christ.

That's the bottom line.

Take this whole incident the whole situation now with with school violence.

All right, everybody's concerned.

More and more people are being shot in schools and everything.

Those are that's this is a tragedy.

It's it's an absolute tragedy.

It's going to change.

It's not by banning guns.

It's not by doing it's it's not by Even training, you know people for active shooters, although

that's a good thing to do.

But it's only when hearts are converted to jesus christ.

Is this society going to change?

So I put I put the fault back into churches.

You have churches today.

Who are watering down the gospel?

They're becoming more like self and and instead of preaching the

gospel and and looking to convert people and then Disciple them as to what they should do in society.

If the church is not impacting society.

In fact, let me let me say this if I have one more thing to say

missing from if your church Today was missing from the location that it's in.

Would it impact the community?

Should be the center of Helping the community

center of righteousness people should know that your church is there because you love them you care for them uh,

and and.

You're having an impact in the community.

It's not just king of yes, we got

to get here things

are not if they're not impacting the community.

Then then what good are they?

And that's what jesus said the community going to separate the

sheep and the goats magic 25.

I know.

So that's what we should be looking at changing the church.

And I know that your website is hope reformed li .net hope reformed li .net and dr

Tony costa the professor of apologetics and islam at toronto baptist seminary is going to be speaking

At hope reformed baptist church.

I believe you said on july 1st july 1st.

So, uh, if you'd like to attend that go to hope reformed li .net and do you have any other contact information?

Uh, no, that's that's probably the best way to reach us.

Great.

Well, I thank you so much for being on the show today.

I want to thank everybody who listened especially those who wrote in questions.

And I want you all to always remember for the rest of your lives that jesus christ is a far greater savior Than you are a

sinner.