Selling Water by the River by Shane Hipps is All Wet

moving along. These are the sounds of the postmodern emergent

Philharmonic Orchestra. Doug Padgett presiding, and this is their rendition of Strauss's also

Sprach Zarathustra. It's an homage to the late postmodern philosopher nihilist

Friedrich Nietzsche. As you can tell, they are being guided by the spirit rather than being limited by those constrictive and overly defined modernist definitions of musical notes.

Just let yourself go as you take in this tour de force move of the

Spirit of God. I gotta tell you to this day that update music cracks me up.

Okay, so that's kind of the setup. We're doing an emergent church update, and one of the premier members of the emergent church, although some people don't even really know of his status within the movement itself, is

Shane Hipps. Formerly of Mars Hill up in Grand Rapids, he was for a while the co -preaching pastor with Rob Bell.

Now let me ask you just a quick question. If you were called into pulpit ministry, now

I understand there's a lot of women who listen to the program, so just consider this a hypothetical, but here's the idea.

If you were called into pulpit ministry and asked to be co -pastor or an associate pastor at a particular congregation, do you think that you should take the call if you find yourselves theologically at odds with the person that you're co -preaching or co -pastoring with?

Probably not. In fact, what I've noticed is that when it comes to pastoral ministry and things of that sort, that generally, and this is just something

I've noticed, that people who work together in the same church are theologically on the same page.

If they're not, then it causes all kinds of trouble and turmoil and things like that. Have you noticed that?

So I would just ask the logical question, and here it is. Are you ready? Do you think that that Rob Bell wanted?

Because remember, Rob Bell was all for and really was pulling for Shane Hipps to be co -pastor there at Mars Hill.

So do you think that Rob Bell wanted Shane Hipps at Mars Hill because Shane Hipps believed differently than Rob Bell or because he believes pretty much the same thing?

Well, you see, I would go with the, well, probably he wanted him there because Shane Hipps probably pretty much teaches the same thing that Rob Bell believes.

Yeah, I would go with that. I think that's a probably a safe, safe, safe, safe answer.

So with that, let me play for you audio from this new video that was posted from the folks that are getting ready to publish

Shane Hipps' brand new book. By the way, he resigned his preaching post at Mars Hill not too long ago because it was kind of getting in the way of him being able to do things, well, like this, you know, write a book called

Selling Water by the River. Here's Shane Hipps to explain what his new tome is all about.

Jesus and the religion that bears his name are not the same thing. If Christianity is like a sail, then

Jesus is more like the wind. Sails come in lots of different shapes and sizes. Some are better at catching the wind than others, but there is always and only one wind.

Okay, now I've got a question for you. Where in the Bible is

Jesus likened to a wind, and where in the Bible is the church, or Christianity, likened to a sail?

Yeah, nothing's really coming to mind here. But, yeah, however,

I think we might want to heed the warning given to us in the book of Colossians chapter 2.

Yeah, Colossians chapter 2, verse 4, Paul is warning the church at Colossae, I say this in order that no one may delude you with plausible sounding arguments.

Uh -huh. Yeah, see, you don't want to be led astray from biblical

Christianity by those who put forward plausible sounding arguments. So, already we've got a problem, because this is a quote, plausible sounding argument.

The problem is that there doesn't seem to be any anchor point in the written word of God. So I ask the question again, where in the

Bible is Jesus represented as a wind, and Christianity as a sail?

I'm not familiar with those passages, but let me back it up just a little bit and watch what he does with this.

Christianity is like a sail, then Jesus is more like the wind. Sails come in lots of different shapes and sizes.

Some are better at catching the wind than others, but there is always and only one wind.

It shows no favoritism or loyalty. A sailor could paint the word wind on its sail. So, the wind shows no favoritism or loyalty.

It's a weird way to talk about Jesus, don't you think? Jesus shows no favoritism, nor does he show any loyalty.

No loyalty to Christianity, that's the point. He claimed that this sail belongs to the wind, but the wind will not turn around and claim to belong to that sail.

Okay, so the sail belongs to the wind, but the wind won't turn around and say that it belongs to the sail.

Weird way to talk about Jesus, don't you think? The relationship between these two things is one way.

A sail without wind is a limp flag. Wind without a sail is still the wind.

Plausible sounding argument, not biblical though. Gets worse, hang on.

Just because Christianity claims Jesus as its own, does not mean that Jesus claims

Christianity as his own. Oh. So, just because Christianity claims

Jesus as its own, doesn't mean that Jesus claims Christianity as his own.

Bizarre way. Bizarre way to talk about Jesus, for sure.

Now, I don't want to take credit for this. I got a listener, his name is John Wilkes. And he wrote a quick comment on my

Facebook wall. Now, I'm going to steal the argument for the future, but I want to make sure that here, at the first time I use it, he gets credit for it.

Here's what he said, he says, Is not the church the bride of Christ? What husband would be ashamed to claim his bride or to be bound by her?

This man, Shane Hibbs, makes our Savior out to be an adulterer who has more to do with Leonard Skinner's The Breeze than with the gospel.

Free to use that song as Pastor Hibbs' theme song, if you like. I might do that in the future, by the way. It depends on how many more times we have to do updates with Shane Hibbs, but that might be a good way to do it.

So, here's the problem. The most important argument right up front is that Scripture, the

New Testament, reveals that Jesus is the bridegroom of the church. In other words,

Jesus is married to the church. This is one of the imageries given. So, the church is the bride of Christ who's had her robes, her garments, washed in the blood of the

Lamb and is now spotless in white. In fact, the last day, when the eschaton finally falls, that's referred to as the great marriage feast of the

Lamb. So, here we've got a problem. The Jesus that Shane Hibbs is describing is pretty much a philanderer.

He's an adulterer. He's out hopping around from bed to bed and basically sleeping with Christianity, sleeping with Islam, sleeping with Buddhism, and all that kind of stuff.

So, here we've got Shane Hibbs' philandering Jesus who really is not bound or even committed solely to his church.

Strange, isn't it? Let me back this up because this is just about as offensive as it gets. The relationship between these two things is one way.

A sail without wind is a limp flag. Wind without a sail is still the wind.

Just because Christianity claims Jesus as its own does not mean that Jesus claims

Christianity as his own. Yeah, wow. Again, where are you getting any of this?

Because that ain't in the Bible. Where did we get the idea that Jesus binds himself to a religion?

What if Jesus could do his work with or without a religion? I'm not opposed to religion. I've been a pastor for a decade.

Yeah, that doesn't mean anything. It's just that my interest is the wind. That's where the life is.

That's where the energy is. The life Jesus promised of boundless joy, indestructible peace, and unending love are gifts of the wind.

And they're available in this life, not just the next. If we miss that, we squander this brief and beautiful existence.

Yeah, again, where is any of this written in the Bible, Shane? The trick is knowing where to look.

Yeah, the place not to look is your book. The question is, have you found it?

Yeah, now this is all just basically postmodern nonsense. Now, a few years ago, back in 2009, I had a couple of conversations with Shane Hipps.

This was prior to the announcement that he was going to be going to Mars Hill. And as a result of my conversation with him, that drove me to want to do a little bit deeper research on him.

And this segment that I'm going to play for you from a sermon that he preached really a few years ago.

He was preaching through the Gospel of John. This is a sermon from the Gospel of John, Chapter 1, called

Wind in the Sail. You'll notice the same themes, the same language, the same thoughts that he's communicating in his forthcoming book are found in this sermon.

I don't know if it's still available anymore, by the way, online. It was originally a part of the sermons that were preached at Trinity Mennonite Church, which

I think is in Arizona. Somewhere Phoenix -ish area. Don't hold me to it.

I just know it's in the general vicinity of the Phoenix area in Arizona, where Shane Hipps was the pastor prior to taking the call at Mars Hill.

And I want you to listen to this, and what we're going to do is we're going to utterly blow this out of the water using the clear teaching of the

Word of God. Shane Hipps here is teaching rank heresy and teaching a universalism that is not taught in Scripture.

The Bible doesn't teach universalism, by the way, like at all. But it's, you know, I don't see, again, go back to my question.

Do you think that Rob Bell was excited to have Shane Hipps come and preach with him there at Mars Hill because he believed differently than he did?

Or because he believed the same thing? You're going to find that there's a reason why this theology that you're going to hear in this soundbite from this sermon sounds eerily similar to the same universalistic heresy that we heard from Rob Bell from the

Love Wins book. There's a good reason for that. So let me cue this up. Here is a section from the

Wind in the Sails sermon preached by Shane Hipps a few years back at Trinity Mennonite Church.

Listen in. The Jews and the Greeks. Nothing in common. Nothing at all in common. Didn't even use the same language most of the time.

So here John comes along and says, hey, to the Jews, you know, that thing you talk about, that wisdom, that beautiful wisdom that you talk about?

Yeah. He's eisegeting the word logos from John chapter 1, verse 1.

In Arche and Halagos. Kai halagos in Prostanteon. Yeah. In the beginning was the

Word. The Word was with God. The Word was God. Yeah. He's eisegeting here. And basically making John say something he didn't say.

I'll explain here a little bit more as we go. That, right. You know that? And to the Greeks he said, hey, you know that logos, that mysterious, beautiful thing with life and fire and life?

That, yeah, right. Both of those things, wisdom and logos, they are actually one thing. And they found full and complete expression in the person of Jesus.

So here's what's so stunning. At a time when it was unthinkable to try and unify religions, John is basically saying, your religion, totally valid.

I love it. I'm even using your language. And your religion, I love it. It's beautiful. Totally valid. I'm even using your language.

But I just want you both to know that there's something bigger than what you've got. Yeah, you heard that right. He's eisegeting

John chapter 1, verse 1, using the word logos as basically trying to convey that the apostle

John was really truly saying to the folks that he was writing his gospel to, that, hey, listen, the religion of the

Greeks, it's all good. Hey, it's all pretty much the same religion.

That's not what John was saying, by the way. And I would point to a different writing of John to say that, listen, scripture interprets scripture.

Was the apostle John one of these guys who believed that you can pretty much follow any religion that you want and it doesn't really matter?

It's all the same thing? Answer, no. OK, the first John, the epistle of first John, chapter 2, verse 18,

John writes, says, children, it is the last hour. And as you have heard that Antichrist is coming, so now many

Antichrist have come. Therefore, we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us.

For if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out that it might become plain that they are not of us.

But you have been anointed by the Holy One and you have all knowledge. I write to you not because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie is of the truth.

Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the Antichrist, he who denies the

Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the

Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you.

If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the

Father. Doesn't sound like John was a universalist. In fact, we know from church history that he wasn't.

If you're familiar with the writings of the early, early, early, early church fathers, they tell us that on one occasion when the

Apostle John was in Ephesus, he was actually brought to Ephesus to be the bishop of the churches in Ephesus.

He brought Mary with him, by the way. Church history tells us that he followed through on his commitment that he made while Jesus was being crucified, where Jesus said, son, behold your mother, mother behold your son, that thing.

So John, eventually, Paul plants the churches in Ephesus. After Paul leaves,

John then becomes the presiding bishop of the churches in Ephesus. And we learn from the ancient church fathers that on one occasion the

Apostle John went to the place where you bathe. They didn't have hot and cold running water and pipes and things like that and indoor plumbing.

So if you wanted to take a bath, you had to go to a place where there was a public bath. So what did John do?

He went into the place, paid his fee. He was going to clean himself up and had taken off his clothes.

And wouldn't you know it, a known Gnostic heretic by the name of Serinthus happened to also be under the same roof as the

Apostle John and the people who were with him. And John didn't say, oh, listen, you believe in the

Logos, I believe in the Logos, it's all good. Let me extend to you the right hand of fellowship.

No, that's not what happened. No, what really happened is the Apostle John, we learned from church history, from the eyewitnesses of the event, that he stormed out of the bathhouse.

And some accounts say that he actually stormed out without putting his clothes on first. And he pretty much said something to the effect of, fly,

Serinthus is in the building, lest the building fall upon us. Something to that effect. So, no,

John was not one of these guys who was, just because he used the word Logos, in John 1 .1,

enarche en halogos, kai logos en posto en theos, kai theos en halogos, just because he used the word

Logos, he was not saying, oh, listen, all the religions are the same. What Shane Hipps is doing here is engaging in universalistic eisegesis and over -reading his ideas into the text, if you know what

I mean. That's not what John was saying. And the fact that John does nowhere in any of the other parts of his writing does he affirm universalism.

In fact, he speaks directly against it. And church history tells us that he had nothing to do with it.

That's not what he was saying at all. So, what he's saying, this is a flat -out lie that sounds like a plausible argument, because, well, he quoted the

Greek. Yeah, I know Greek, and what he's saying is not true. There's something that transcends what you have.

It doesn't nullify what you have. It doesn't get rid of what you have. It just moves beyond it. So John does this unbelievably beautiful thing of basically saying,

I want to get past the religious divisions among us in our world. He didn't say anything of the sort?

I don't want to get past it. Jesus comes to bring us past it. That's not what happens at all.

Jesus is the ultimate unifier of these various diverse ways of looking at the world. And the only way that anybody can ever see that is by looking at the interior, not the exterior.

A black man and a white woman look very different on the exterior, do they not? They look very different from the outside.

But on the inside, same longings, same needs, same need for love, for significance, for peace.

Okay, now the metaphor he's using here, a black man and a white woman, he's basically saying, listen, different religions are just like, well, you know, the same differences that we see when we look at a black man and a white woman.

You see, you look at Islam, you see, you know, an Arab man. You look at Christianity, you see a white woman.

You look at Buddhism, you see an overweight oriental guy. But they all have the same needs.

It's all pretty much the same thing, right? That's what he's arguing here, that the differences among the different religions are just surface differences.

Different skin pigmentation, maybe body shape and things like that, you know? Peace, same need for food, very little separates us on the inside.

Now this is really easy to talk about when you're talking about people, isn't it? Yes, people look different on the outside, but on the inside we're all the same.

That's not what John's doing. He's doing it with religions. No, he's not. You're completely misreading

John 1 .1. Mennonites and Muslims, they're basically the same.

No, no, no, no, no. We're very different. Now watch what he's going to say here, okay? No, we're different, but watch what he does.

I beg to differ, right? I mean, when you try and do this with religious systems, you're playing with very dangerous stuff.

Because a religious system, what makes a religion a religion is the thing that makes it different from other religions.

A religious identity is derived from what makes it distinct. A religious identity is derived from our boundaries.

We sing music this way. That's what makes us different. We believe Jesus did this, and so we follow

Jesus that way. That is what makes us different. You don't even believe in Jesus. We're different from you in that way. Even religions that have come along and said, our religion believes there are no distinctions between religions is in fact a distinction.

So these external things, religion is about making these distinctions, and guess what?

That isn't a bad thing. Having a distinct religious identity marked by some boundaries, knowing how you're different from other religions, isn't a problem.

John isn't trying to get rid of that. He's trying to point beyond it. Keep it, but move beyond it.

To lose your religious identity is like losing a sail at sea.

The sail is like religion. The wind is the spirit.

You need a sail to catch the wind, to harness the wind.

But you've got to realize that that sail isn't the wind. The sail is actually dependent on the wind.

See, here's the crazy thing. The spirit, the wind, doesn't need sails in order for it to move about the world.

The sails need the wind. So the spirit, in order for it to move and operate in the world, has no need of religion.

But we, those of us made the way we are, for some reason need sails in order to catch the wind.

We need religious structures, external things we can touch and see, and traditions and lineages that teach us so that we can better catch the wind.

Now some sails are built better than other sails. So here's the primary distinction between different religions, you know,

Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, Jainism, Sufism, or whatever. Some sails are bigger than other sails.

Some sails are a different shape than other sails. And those differences matter. And sometimes one sail is better than another sail, in the same way that some religions are better equipped to catch the spirit of God.

Some religions are not as well equipped to fully capture and be compelled by the spirit. So it matters what religion you choose.

It matters why that religion, why you choose it. So it's a matter of efficiency of catching the winds of the spirit.

Some religions are just not that efficient at making use of the winds of the spirit. Others are way better at it, yeah.

It matters what it looks like, how it's shaped. But don't ever confuse the sail with the spirit, the sail with the wind.

Okay, you ready to take this apart? So if Christianity was all about, you know, listen, we've got a really good set of sails for catching the winds of the spirit, and we don't want you to lose your religious distinctions, all of you people out there who are worshiping different gods.

Listen, your sails do a perfectly fine job of catching the winds of the spirit, but if you're looking for a more efficient way of catching the winds of the spirit, then come on over to Christianity because we're really good at catching the winds of the spirit, and maybe we're just a little better at it, a little farther along as far as our technology of spirit catching than you are.

If that's really what Christianity is all about, then my questions for Shane Hipps are, what would he do with passages like, well, 1

Corinthians 6, verse 9. 1 Corinthians 6, verse 9, let me read this to you.

Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived, neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God.

Notice in the list, idolaters. Now, the word idolater has a very specific meaning.

Are you ready? It's one who worships an idol. Think back to the first commandment.

God is taking the children of Israel out to Mount Sinai. He's delivered them from slavery, through great acts of judgment against the false god

Pharaoh, and has brought them through the Red Sea up to Mount Sinai, gives them the

Ten Commandments, and the first commandment is what? You shall have no other gods before me.

Why is that? Is it because God just wants to keep

His people to Himself, and those other gods, they can have their people, but He just wants to have

His people. Is that the reason why? No. Actually, what we learn throughout the Old Testament is that those other gods don't exist at all.

In fact, you read the book of Isaiah, read Jeremiah. Over and again,

God reveals that those who worship other gods, who worship idols, are worshiping, basically, the creation of their own mind and hand, but that idols are nothing in the world.

This is what Scripture says. We've got a problem here.

Here in the New Testament, don't you think the Apostle Paul, if he were teaching contrary to what

John was teaching, and Peter was teaching, and James, and the other apostles were teaching, that they would have taken him back behind the woodshed and set him straight?

Don't you think? But here, Paul says that idolaters will not inherit the kingdom of God. Huh. Weird, right?

Well, then we would turn to something like the Acts of the Apostles, the book of Acts.

Now, the book of Acts doesn't just record for us the Acts of, say, Paul. It records for us the

Acts of Peter and others, right? Well, we've got this interesting story that happens in Acts 19.

Acts 19, and let's see if I can get the context here.

Here, Acts 19, I'll start at verse 21. Now, after these events, Paul resolved in the spirit to pass through Macedonia and Achaia to go to Jerusalem, saying,

After I have been there, I must also see Rome. And having sent to Macedonia two of his helpers,

Timothy and Erastus, he himself stayed in Asia for a while. About that time there arose no little disturbance concerning the way.

Okay, that would be Christianity. For a man named Demetrius, a silversmith who had made silver shrines of Artemis, brought no little business to the craftsmen.

Okay, he's in Ephesus, by the way. Paul's in Ephesus. And these he gathered together with the workmen in similar trades and said,

Men, you know that from this business we have our wealth. They made silver shrines of Artemis at the temple of Artemis, right?

And you see in here that not only in Ephesus, but in almost all of Asia, this

Paul has persuaded and turned away a great many people saying that gods made with hands are not gods.

And there is danger not only that this trade of ours may come to disrepute, but also that the temple of the great goddess

Artemis may be counted as nothing and that she may even be deposed from her magnificence, she whom all

Asia and the world worship. Weird. Don't you think that if Christianity was all about, you know, seeing that other religions are just different sale systems for catching the winds of the

Spirit, that the Apostle Paul wouldn't be arguing and telling the people in Ephesus that gods made with hands are not gods at all.

Don't you think that would be the case? But see, here we've got the exact opposite of what we would expect if Shane Hipps was telling us the truth about Christianity.

So who are you going to believe? The Apostle Paul? What's written in Scripture?

Or are you going to believe Shane Hipps? There's another story

I can point you to if you have your Bible. Flip on over to Acts chapter 14. Acts chapter 14.

There in Acts chapter 14, Paul preaches to the folks in Lystra. I'll start at verse 8.

Acts chapter 14 verse 8. Here's what it says. Now at Lystra, there was a man sitting who could not use his feet.

So Paul's on a missionary journey, planting churches, preaching the gospel, right? And he was crippled.

So this man was sitting who could not use his feet. He was crippled from birth and had never walked. He listened to Paul speaking.

And Paul, looking intently at him and seeing that he had faith to be made well, he said in a loud voice, Stand upright on your feet.

And he sprang up and he began walking. And when the crowd saw what

Paul had done, they lifted up their voices saying in the Lycanian language, The gods have come down to us in the likeness of men.

Barnabas, they called Zeus. And Paul, Hermes, because, well, he was the chief speaker. And the priests of Zeus, whose temple was in the entrance of the city, brought oxen and garlands to the gates and wanted to offer sacrifices with the crowds.

But when the apostle Barnabas and Paul, when the apostles Barnabas and Paul heard of it, they tore their garments and rushed out in the crowd saying,

Men, why are you doing these things? We also are men of like nature with you and we bring you good news that you should turn from these vain things to a living

God. Turn from these vain things to a living

God who made the heavens and the earth and the sea that is all in them. Huh.

Weird. I mean, it's strange, don't you think, that if Christianity was all about, you know,

Jesus looking past all of our religious differences and that every religion, they're just different sail systems for catching the winds of the spirit of Jesus, that wouldn't you see that in the preaching of the apostles?

When Christianity was, you know, in its, you can argue in its purest, you know what

I'm saying, right? But we don't see any of that at all. Why do you think there's such a difference between what the

Bible says and what Shane Hipps is saying? I can tell you why. Because Shane Hipps is preaching his own ideas.

He's not preaching you the truth. He's not telling anybody the truth. He's got his own ideas, his own notions, and his ideas and notions are, well, false.

He's an idolater. He worships the Jesus of his own imagination, not the

Jesus of Scripture. He teaches the Christianity of his own making, not the Christianity that is the faith once for all delivered to the saints.

He's not making people part of the kingdom of Christ by proclaiming repentance and the forgiveness of sins in Jesus' name and calling people from their idolatries, from their adulteries, from their homosexual sins, from their greed, from their lust, from their lyings and slanders and coveting.

He's not calling them out of that into the forgiveness of sins won by Christ on the cross. No, he's saying, ah, just catch the winds of the

Spirit. Jesus isn't even committed to his bride, the church.

No, Jesus is out philandering with all the other religions because he doesn't want to be bound.

In fact, Christianity, well, the church, well, she's just one of many concubines that Jesus is keeping if you take

Shane Hipps' theology as the truth. See, there's the rub.

It isn't. All right. We are up on our second break. If you'd like to email me regarding anything you've heard on this edition or any previous editions of Fighting for the

Faith, you can do so at my email address. Talkbackatfightingforthefaith .com or you can ask me at my friend on Facebook. It's facebook .com

forward slash PirateChristian. You can follow me on Twitter. My name there, at PirateChristian. We will be right back.

Carrie Shook's sermon on the other side of the break. Grab your testosterone drinks or whatever you need to do to keep your masculinity during the sermon.

We'll be right back. If you think

God is a black woman named Papa, then you need to get out of the shack and read your Bible. You're listening to Fighting for the