Is Premarital Counseling a Bad Idea?

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00:05

So, Tim, the question for today is, is premarital counseling a bad idea?

00:23

Yes. Okay. Why is premarital counseling a bad idea?

00:32

I mean, it's mostly a bad idea, okay? Okay. All right. All right. Why is premarital counseling mostly a bad idea?

00:39

Yeah, it's mostly a bad idea because essentially by that, most people who come to, you know, a pastor and ask them to marry them, at that point, a pastor has some sort of feeling that if he's going to sign off on this thing, he's going to approve this thing, that he wants to at least do the best he can to prepare them for what's coming their way.

01:03

But then part of the problem is that most people are coming to him after they've already, they have their heart set on like, we're going to get married.

01:11

So there's not like an option to say, hey, maybe this is a bad idea. In fact, it's, this is obviously a wonderful idea and you better approve of it and you better marry it, right?

01:21

Or else you're a hateful bigot and the worst.

01:26

You're an unloving pastor. Unloving pastor. I mean, you're basically Hitler, right? So there's this, so you have two individuals who are making probably one of the most important decisions of their life who are coming to you, you know, theoretically asking you for help and advice and to validate and approve of what they're doing.

01:46

They're asking for counsel. That's what, that's what they're supposed to be doing. Right. But then they're, what they're actually doing is saying the only counsel you're actually allowed to give me is the counsel that I've already decided.

01:59

Right. Right. Yeah. So, but then, and then, you know, that request then, you know, can you marry me is then done in the context of like, we've already most likely decided on a wedding date.

02:12

We've put a bunch of money into this, right? Like, you know, cause we're already forking out a bunch of money to make this wedding happen.

02:20

So then whatever counsel you give us is going to be done in a context where, um, you know, there's only like, we're all driving towards only one and only one outcome.

02:30

And then, you know, during that time, most of the time, they're so busy at that point, planning a wedding that they, um, really aren't able to process some of the things that you're able to do that could actually help them.

02:43

And so, you know, um, and, and then, you know, like, you know, putting all that in the pot together, then it just, it makes for a bad kind of arrangement in general.

02:54

Um, and it's not doing nearly as much good as it could be done if it were done in a different kind of way under different kind of circumstances.

03:03

Yeah. It seems almost like, you know, you're going into the, you're basically going into this thinking like,

03:08

Hey, so it's supposed to be premarital counseling, meaning you're going to someone to get counsel.

03:14

You're going to someone to get, you know, basically like an outside opinion on what's going on.

03:20

Right. But then I think functionally what it ends up being for most people is just like, uh,

03:27

Hey, give me a bunch of, you know, helpful tips for, for when I get married, for when

03:34

I get married, you know, and then, and then, you know, I'm probably going to forget most of them, you know, and I probably don't agree with the rest of them.

03:42

Right. Um, and so it ends up being like this pretty like unhelpful thing in terms of like, really in terms of, of helping people find someone who is going to help them, uh, pursue

03:56

Christ in a faithful way. Right. Yep. So, so what it becomes for the pastor is it becomes this thing where, you know, he's actually put in a situation where he has a gun to his head and there's only like one proper outcome that can happen here.

04:13

Right. And, but then if he can say that he did premarital counseling, then at the very least, it's a way of talking him into thinking this is a better idea than he might otherwise think.

04:22

Right. And so it's like, well, at least we did premarital counseling, man. And then on their end, you know, they're looking at it like, well, we're obviously two responsible people because we did premarital counseling with our pastor, which we probably were completely and totally uninterested in, in a form.

04:37

It mostly it's just a check mark for them. Not only it's a check mark for them, but then it's the kind of thing that's like, it also becomes like a badge of honor for them when, and then for the pastor, it's kind of like a ease my conscience kind of thing.

04:51

Well, I did the best I could, right. I did premarital. And so then I washed my hands, I washed my hands and whatever happens.

04:58

Yeah. So, so it's just, I think in, it could be more helpful if you have a couple in the early stages of dating who are coming and saying,

05:08

Hey, you know, we're considering marriage. We don't have like a timetable there. Right. Don't have it.

05:14

Um, like, um, I, I think I'm a much bigger fan of what you in general.

05:24

Like, I think it would be a lot more helpful if this is, uh, you know, two people who are coming to their pastor and saying,

05:29

Hey, um, you know, I, I like her enough to know that I want to, like,

05:35

I want to see if this is the wisest thing, the best thing, the godliest thing. Like there's enough interest here to,

05:41

I'm not wasting your time. Right. But then there's, there's not, there's not just like, um,

05:47

I'm totally sold out on. This has to go exactly the way

05:52

I want it to go with money attached, family plane tickets attached, you know, all this, like, uh, it has to go a certain way.

05:59

If it could just be, uh, like, like pre -engagement, I think that could be a lot more helpful and a lot more beneficial for a couple at that point who is really actively seeking like actual counsel, you know, like we want to make the wisest decision.

06:15

You're a spiritual leader in our life. Can you help us to think through some of the things that we should be looking for in each other to make a good decision?

06:23

Right. Uh, and then, you know, uh, give us your advice, your counsel, your wisdom on us pursuing each other too in that way.

06:32

And I mean, there might be, you know, there's plenty of situations in that kind of framework where, you know, the guy has met the, you know, the attractive girl who, you know, basically is a pagan and he's attracted to her for a long reasons that you might actually be a help to him in that way.

06:49

If he came wanting your help, you know, or the opposite kind of situation where, you know, you have the desperate girl who is marrying the scoundrel who is dating the scoundrel guy.

07:00

Cause he's, you know, the one who's pursued her, you know, where you give her, you know, or even, you know, even to, you know, mature people,

07:09

I think they can benefit the most from counseling in that way. If it were, you know, weren't given with a gun to your head.

07:17

So to speak. Yeah. I like that. I like that a lot because I think, you know, assuming, yeah.

07:23

Like you said, assuming you have two people who are willing to actually hear your answers, even if it's not what they want to hear, then you really are protecting people from getting into lifelong relationships that obviously, you know, they affect the rest of your life.

07:41

And, and not only that, but then when you get into the engagement period, you, all of a sudden you, like you said, you have people planning things, there's money invested and, and this date now in a wedding date, families traveling, you know, conversations have already happened with specific family members a lot of times, and people are trying to travel to come and see you.

08:08

You're trying to merge bank accounts and all of these things. And, and so there's a lot of like, if someone were to get told in the middle of that process,

08:19

Hey, you don't need to marry this person. There's a, there's a very big pressure to ignore that advice just because like,

08:27

Hey, it's going to look really bad. And there's a lot of things that you've got to untangle now that are going to be difficult to untangle.

08:35

And it would have been better to just, you know, never get involved in the first place. Right. And, and so,

08:42

I mean, you know, for most people who are, for most guys who are mature, one of the steps that they take before they get engaged is to say,

08:51

Hey, let me go talk to this girl's dad. You know, let me, I want to get like permission from the father before I, I want to get his blessing right before I go and, and ask his daughter to marry me.

09:05

Now, you know, I think there, I think there's some wisdom in saying like, Hey, I also want to talk to my pastor and not necessarily get like a, like, you know, well,

09:16

I guess I hesitate to say like, whatever my pastor says goes right. But then there is a certain kind of like,

09:23

Hey, so the whole point of like being at a church is you've found a church where you trust the leadership to shepherd you.

09:33

Right. And so, so it should just be a part of your regular decision -making,

09:39

I think in general, but especially with this sort of big decision when it comes to picking someone that you're going to spend the rest of your life with.

09:50

It makes a lot of sense to say, Hey, why don't I go talk to my pastor? You know, before this, and why don't we like, why don't we go together and, and talk to my pastor and just,

10:01

I want to know what he, I want to know what he thinks because I, I genuinely value his wisdom.

10:06

And I think, you know, I can trust that. And so that makes a lot of sense for me. And you know, hopefully people are hearing that and saying unmarried people are hearing what we're saying and, and thinking, maybe this is how

10:19

I should actually go about it so that I don't end up, you know, somehow getting married to like the contentious woman or something.

10:26

Right. Yeah. Well, the Bible says the one who isolates himself seeks their own desire. So in the multitude of counselors, there is safety and more that you can actively involve people early, early on the process before you just have all the emotions totally sold.

10:41

And on this outcome, I think the better off you're going to be in the, the wiser decision you're going to make.

10:48

And so I think, you know, there are, there are some like sinful choices you can make. The Bible says, marry whom you will only marry in the

10:53

Lord. I think, I mean, there's plenty of times where, you know, you have a couple and you think one of them is probably not saved.

11:00

And so that can happen. But then I think you want to, like, you can make a wise marriage choice, make a foolish marriage choice.

11:07

And if you want to make wise marriage choice, there's just so much to marriage that you might want to get some people who have been married before and know the pitfalls, know the dangers, know the difference between like, you know, real warning signs and just.

11:21

Immaturity. Yeah. Immaturity, you know, it can help you sort through some of these things. And I mean, there are certain character traits that a person can have that will make your life significantly harder than it needs to be.

11:34

And yeah. And, you know, those who have ISTC and they have a much better understanding of what some of those things could be.

11:42

So if you want to make a wise decision, get people involved earlier on in the process with less pressure.

11:48

And I think that's the main point. All right. Fair enough. Push back and potential topics for us to discuss in future episodes at bible bashed podcast at gmail .com

12:18

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12:29

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