Afraid of Flying?

Apologia Studios

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00:00

Um, let me go ahead and just play. I'm going to play a clip here. This is from Ford and this was in reference to the polygraph.

00:07

Um, this is important and this is where I think we could probably have a good conversation. So the issue of polygraph, let's say somebody makes a false accusation against Pastor Luke.

00:17

Someone makes an accusation. Well, I won't say false accusation. Let's say somebody makes the accusation and they've got no other witnesses.

00:24

It's just the against Pastor Luke. Pastor Luke, according to God's law, has absolutely no requirement, obligation, or duty to even help them in any way.

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They're the accuser. He is to be seen innocent until proven guilty, which means they have to prove the case.

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He does not need to assist because if he's truly guilty, according to God's law, you don't need his help.

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The other witnesses and evidence demonstrate his guilt. So in God's law, you ever hear the statement we have in the

00:56

States, you have the right to remain silent. Uh, that's because God's standards, his judicial standards say this, you don't have to help your accuser, which means if somebody makes an accusation against Luke or joy or me, my mouth stays shut.

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This is essentially what it's like. You think I'm guilty. You think I did this. It's your job to prove it.

01:17

Well, Jeff, I'd like to ask you some questions. Nope. I don't, I don't have,

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I don't have to assist you in any way because if you really think I'm guilty and you say I've done this, then you have to demonstrate it with the two to three independent lines of witness and testimony.

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So go for it. I don't have to offer you any assistance whatsoever. So this question of polygraph. Really quickly, we're not talking about like all of us having done things that are really, really wrong and then just being like, no,

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I'm going to get away with it. That's not the context. We've had this happen at the mill, at the abortion mill, where the police have come, you know, and they try to get you to, to say something to incriminate you.

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And we're just like, I'm not going to answer that. Yeah. So, and here, here's, here's, this is an, this is a, the example is protecting yourself, not protecting your guilt.

02:05

Yeah, exactly. What I'm saying there is the accused, according to God, has rights and the right is to be seen as innocent until proven guilty.

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And he has the right to actually not help the accuser because the accuser, if it's true that you're guilty, you don't need the person who's accused to help you.

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You already have the evidence that demonstrates the guilt. So that's where we get the idea of the right to remain silent.

02:31

That doesn't come from atheism, friends. That comes from the Christian worldview. But this whole issue of polygraph,

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I think is really important to talk about it. You don't hear a lot of Christians talking about this, and I think it'd be good to talk about.

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We've been pastors for a long time, and we've had instances where we've had to help people who have gone to court.

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I've had to go and testify in court for people. I've had to write letters to judges. And we started off as, as that drug church in Phoenix.

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So a lot of people who were dealing with the courts and under threat of imprisonment, all those things.

03:02

I've had to beg judges for mercy. We've also had situations where we've had people accused of things and polygraphs were used.

03:09

And I want to say this. I would, I think I would, I would generally tell anybody, do not take a polygraph.

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It's not necessary and not helpful. Because I give you one example of a person who was falsely accused. They did three polygraphs.

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The first polygraph, interestingly, the polygrapher said, I will go before a judge in any court and I'll put my entire career on this.

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This person did not do this. Absolutely no question. He'd been doing it for like 40 years.

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And he said, this person did not do it. I will stand before a judge and tell them you are out of your mind.

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If you, if you let this person go to jail for this, essentially. And so that was the first polygraph.

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Absolute 100%, not guilty. Second polygraph was, we don't know.

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Right? Wasn't it? We don't know. It was confusing. Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so, excuse me. I mean, the first one, the judge wouldn't even look at.

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And this is where, I know you have more to say, but what we're learning is that ultimately polygraphs are completely subjective to the judge essentially, or the jury, because the judge wouldn't even look at that one.

04:15

But then these other ones, they, the state did essentially. Yeah. Yeah. And the first one was inconclusive.

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Yeah. So the state did them as inconclusive and the third one was guilty. Yeah. So check it out. Three polygraphs taken on the same person.

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First one, 100 % did not do it. No question. Not guilty. Second one, inconclusive.

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Third one, guilty. Literally three, all different results. Not guilty.

04:39

We don't know. Totally guilty. Three. They're so notoriously unreliable. I'm amazed that anyone even is using them anymore.

04:48

Yeah. I would just say in the inconclusive one, this person was asked questions that there was not a right answer to.

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They could not have possibly answered it truthfully, the way the questions were worded. And then it came back as inconclusive.

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And it was just a trap to get them. Was it the kind of question like, have you stopped beating your wife? Yeah. It was like, did you, this person was innocent of what they did.

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They didn't do it. And the question was like, did you mean to do it? It's like, well, they didn't do it to begin with. Right. Did you mean to do it?

05:18

Yeah. Unbelievable. So anyway, I wanted to play this clip. I'll try to go through this quickly. This is Ford on why she decided to take a polygraph test.

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There's a reason I'm playing this. So just listen. For Flake, Ms.

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Mitchell for Senator Flake. Thank you. We've heard this morning several times that you did take a polygraph and that was on August the 7th.

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Is that right? I believe so. It's the day I was flying from BWI to Manchester, New Hampshire.

05:51

Okay. Why did you decide to take a polygraph? I didn't see any reason not to do it.

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Were you advised to do that? Again, you're seeming to call for communications between counsel and client.

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I don't think you mean to do that. If you do, she shouldn't have to answer that. Counsel, could you let her answer the extent to which she doesn't violate the relationship between you and Dr.

06:26

Ford? Based on the advice of the counsel,

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I was happy to undergo the polygraph test, although I found it extremely stressful.

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Much longer than I anticipated. I told my whole life story,

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I felt like, but I endured it. It was fine. I understand they can be that way.

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Have you ever taken any other polygraphs in your life? Never. Okay.

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You went to see a gentleman by the name of Jeremiah Hannafin. So this was, you can find this online,

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Ford and why she decided to take polygraph tests. So she's questioned here, have you ever taken one in your life? She says no.

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Then she asked, did you receive any assistance or any encouragement on how to take the test?

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She said no. And she said, have you ever given anybody advice before on taking a polygraph test?

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She says no. So what's interesting here is that she was asked, did anybody coach you?

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She said no. She said, have you ever taken one before? No. And she said, have you ever given anybody any advice on taking a polygraph?

07:53

She said no. Now Dr. Ford is a psychiatrist, right? So this is from New York Post.

07:59

She's not a psychiatrist. She has a degree in psychology. A degree in psychology.

08:05

She is not a licensed clinical psychiatrist. Okay. There you go. So that's, I knew that the doctorate was in psychology.

08:10

That's what I meant. Yeah. She's a doctor of psychology. Doctorate in psychology. So this is from New York Post.

08:17

Ex -boyfriend's letter prompts Graslie to question Ford's truthfulness. An ex -boyfriend of Christine Blasey Ford reportedly wrote a letter to the

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Senate Judiciary Committee contradicting her testimony last Thursday on polygraphs, prompting

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Senator Chuck Graslie to raise doubts about her truthfulness. The man who says he dated Ford from 1992 to 1998 wrote in the letter that he once saw

08:41

Ford help ease the nerves of a friend preparing to take a polygraph by explaining in detail what to expect and how they work.

08:49

Now it's interesting. This is of course a witness saying his perspective, but just in terms of putting these parts and pieces together, here you have a person who is saying that she, he, as her boyfriend witnessed her actually coaching somebody on taking a polygraph.

09:05

Right. So it's just, in terms of interrogating a witness, I'm not saying you can receive that allegation.

09:11

I'm not saying it's absolutely true because the boyfriend said it. What I'm saying is that you start to interrogate the witness, you start to listen to other parts and pieces, you start to raise questions.

09:19

Is this person actually telling me the truth? Because this seemingly is a little off.

09:25

Now this is another example of something that's been heard, I think, a lot. And I think it's important to listen to because it goes to credibility of witnesses and whether somebody is telling the truth and they're always telling you the truth.

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This is Dr. Ford, question about her fear of flying. May I ask

09:43

Dr. Ford, how did you get to Washington? In an airplane.

09:48

Okay. It's, I ask that because it's been reported by the press that you would not submit to an interview with the committee because of your fear of flying.

09:58

Is that true? Well, I was willing, I was hoping that they would come to me, but then

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I realized that was an unrealistic request. It would have been a quicker trip for me.

10:11

Yes. So that was certainly what I was hoping was to avoid having to get on an airplane, but I eventually was able to get up the gumption with the help of some friends and get on the plane.

10:25

When you were here in the mid Atlantic area back in August, end of July, August, how did you get here?

10:35

Also by airplane. I come here once a year during the summer to visit my family. Okay. I'm sorry, not here.

10:41

I go to Delaware. Okay. In fact, you fly fairly frequently for your hobbies and you're, you've had to fly for your work.

10:51

Is that true? Correct. Unfortunately. You, you were a consulting biostatistician in Sydney, Australia.

10:58

Is that right? I've never been to Australia, but the company that I worked for is based in Australia and they have an office in San Francisco, California.

11:07

Okay. I don't think I'll make it to Australia. It is long. I also saw on your

11:14

CV that you list the following interests of surf travel and you in parentheses put

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Hawaii, Costa Rica, South Pacific islands, and French Polynesia. Have you been all to those places?

11:25

Correct. By airplane? Yes. And your interests also include oceanography,

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Hawaiian and Tahitian culture. Did you travel by air as a part of those interests?

11:37

Correct. Okay. Thank you very much. It's easier for me to travel going that direction when it's a vacation.

11:45

So there's, I think just something interesting in terms of, you know, we can't assume that every person we talk to is telling the truth always.

11:53

Again, I wanted to say this because I think it's so important for you to hear me say it. Joy's already repeated this. I think Luke has as well.

11:59

We're not saying, we're not saying that we know the truth, the full truth about the situation.

12:05

I don't know what happened to Dr. Ford. I don't know if this is a false memory. I don't know if it actually did happen.

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I don't know if it was somebody else that did it. She thinks that Kavanaugh did it. I don't know. But I'm saying as Christians, we have to hold to God's standards in terms of how we receive accusations.

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And God tells us as priests and judges to actually really rigorously ask the witness the questions you're supposed to cross -examine.

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And you do have to pay attention to these things. Even as pastors, we have to do this when we sit down with people and there's conflict between brothers and sisters.

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We have to ask hard questions. We have to try to figure out, is this person telling me the truth consistently? Is there an inconsistency in their story?

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Are they starting to actually try to make themselves look better? Are they only giving me one side of the story that makes them look good and leaving out details that could incriminate them?

12:49

We have to ask these questions. And so it's important. I think when someone says, I have a fear of flying, but their schedule looks like a constant flying and flying everywhere, flying on vacation, flying across the country.

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You have to say, why would you say that? Why would you say I have a fear of flying when you do this all the time?

13:05

I think it's interesting. It's just, again, not pointing to actual total guilt. It's just something in terms of interrogation of the witness.