Black Hebrew Israelite Challenges Andrew

We are live, Apologetics Live, here again on a Thursday night.

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I'll bring Pastor Justin in. Happy New Year, sir. Happy New Year. How are you?

What's that? You didn't burn anything down for the New Year? I'm watching the nation burn itself down right now on the news.

Yeah, there you go. Clay says good evening from Texas. So, you know, I don't know what his name is, but at least now

I know he's from Texas. So I'm just going to look up every single person that lives in Texas. By the name of Humble or Clay, right?

Yeah, yeah, that's right. That's right. So if you want to comment, there's several ways you can comment.

If you're watching on YouTube, if you're watching on, you can comment there.

You can comment on Facebook. We'll see those. And so I don't know if we're going to be able to use

Twitter anymore. I think Twitter is getting rid of their app that they do allow for streaming.

So we may be done with Twitter. Well, Twitter's done anyway. So that's kind of a website that has gotten rid of all of us, hasn't it?

Yeah, pretty much. So I'm over on Parlay. If you want to find me there, that's where you can find me. And I'm on Parlay as some say

Parler, but Parlay. Just look for Andrew Rappaport. All right. So what we want to do tonight is talk about Black Hebrew Israelites.

Let me play how this started. I played this for you. And you kind of thought this was funny.

There was some things in this that I think were a tad bit entertaining. But for those who don't know what

Black Hebrew Israelites are, what they believe, I see someone that just says

Facebook user. For folks on Facebook, on apologitalive .com, there is instructions on how to get your name to show up in StreamYard so that we could put up your name like that.

And this is right now, Pastor Michael. I was just on his podcast, the Clergy Talk podcast, talking about interpretation of scripture.

And so FullBellyBear is asking where Vocab Malone is. Well, I wonder if I can say where he is.

You know, he didn't tell me that I couldn't. He didn't tell me why, that I couldn't say why he can't make it tonight.

To join us. So maybe I should just say, what do you think? Should I just spill the beans? Yeah, I think you should tell everybody.

Okay. So Vocab Malone's working on another book. And so he is busy doing that and not being able to have much free time.

Sure hope he wanted that known. Hey, if not, everyone's going to have anticipation in looking forward to another new book.

Although I hope this one's not, you know, titled with Barack Obama. So, you know, one of the things we want to do is let me give you a quick overview of what black

Hebrew Israelites are, what they believe. And then we'll hopefully get this gentleman on.

I have had a history of debating folks like this that believe this on the streets.

But it's very hard to get them into formal debates or to get them to come on to a program like this and actually discuss their beliefs.

So I actually, I said to Pastor Justin, right, I told you before we came on that I wasn't sure he was going to show up and trying to come in.

He's just having some problems with the computer. So we hope that he'll be able to get in shortly. So in short, what black

Hebrew Israelites believe is that basically there's a verse in the scripture in Deuteronomy chapter 28, verses 68.

Let me read that for you. I'm going to read it out of King James specifically because many black

Hebrew Israelites, I'm just going to call them BHI for short, but many BHI do hold to King James onlyism.

And so I will use King James only, sorry, I will use King James only for this program, but may not only for this program, but this is what the passage says.

And the Lord shall bring thee into Egypt again with ships by way whereof

I speak unto thee. Thou shalt see it no more again, and there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondmen and bondwomen, and no man shall buy you.

And so what they end up focusing on there is that it says they will return into Egypt again with ships.

And so basically, oh good, Humble Clay is saying vocab already broke the news, so he thinks

I'm good. All right. So basically what they do is they focus on one word there, the word ships. And what they do with this is they will say that this is a prophecy of the

African slave trade. So we'll spend some time dealing with this first, I'm sure. The idea that you're going to have with this is that they will say that they are looking at this and seeing that this is the only time that they believe in history where you have examples of the slavery where people are being enslaved and they're coming in by ship.

Okay. And so this is the argument, and they say that this is a prophecy of the

African slave trade. Therefore, the Africans that were in the African slave trade were

Israelites. Okay. So that's the premise. Let me, this will be a little bit funny.

Full belly bear says, hey, Andrew, do you find that most people who say they will debate you end up chickening out?

Actually, the answer is, yeah, it seems to be that way. I'm just this lovable full belly bear.

Why does everyone want to cancel debating me? I don't get it. All right. So let me play the message that we got.

And for those of you who know, who are regular here, you know that my name, it's actually on the bottom right here, is

Andrew Rappaport. What's that again? Andrew Rappaport.

Okay. And so now I do have, I will say

I have done two debates on Black Hebrew Israelites. It's on our YouTube channel, and it's really kind of interesting.

The first one, we had three BHI guys that were going to debate me. So three on one.

That was almost fair. They might have needed a couple more people. When you're armed with truth, you know.

But what ended up happening was they blocked me and the guy that was moderating it after we set it up, and we didn't know what to do.

So I actually told the moderator, so let's just, let's do it. Let's do the debate. And what ended up happening was the moderator was like, who are you going to debate?

I said, don't worry. Just introduce me. Let me do my opening and then let our guest introduce himself. And so that's what he did.

And when it came time for the guest, I put up a picture of an empty chair. And I said, after a year and a half of having dozens of people challenge me to debates, this is who showed.

And so, yeah, that actually got the desired effect because afterwards

I actually had someone that did set up a debate, was willing to debate me. We did a debate. I thought it was a good debate.

And what ended up happening was interesting was after we did the debate, I got a whole bunch of people saying that this guy wasn't really good.

He failed. I needed to debate them. Of course, I invited them on, but again, they never showed.

So this was the voicemail. And remember, my name's Andrew, but you'll get a kick out of this.

Yes, I'm trying to get in touch with Mike Rappaport in reference to Revelations 2 and 9 and Revelations 3 and 9.

I don't understand it. And also, Deuteronomy chapter 28 verses 15 through 68.

I'd like to understand those. And Mr. Rappaport, he should be able to explain it.

I heard he was a scholar. All right, thank you. Goodbye. A scholar.

So there you go. So my name is Mike Rappaport. Hey, Mike, how you doing?

I haven't seen you in so long. Yeah, yeah. I got to figure out how to change my name on here, but it's not showing up down there.

Oh, Angie got it. Angie got it. Revelations. Yeah, that was one of the things it's

Revelations or Revelation. I thought it was Revelation is the revelation of Jesus Christ.

So I was going to try to, I couldn't skip my name to show up as Mike Rappaport.

That would have been funny. But so he wanted to discuss there

Deuteronomy 28. Now he,

I will give credit. He says verses 15 to through 68. Okay, most just want to focus in on 68.

He's trying to come in, but we can see him coming in. So we hope that he will get in.

It is kind of interesting because I'll point out some things just so you notice. I can already see how this is going to be.

I actually found out who Full Belly Bear is. And I'm going to hear this for a while. I have a feeling.

There you go. How's that work for you? You're mega host, Mike Rappaport. There you go.

That's great. Okay, so what we end up doing is, and I see him trying to come in.

Hope we can figure this out. But, you know, he wanted to learn, is how

I think he said it. He wanted to understand, I think, understand the references in Revelation 2 .9

and 3 .9. So let me at least start there and look those passages up.

There's one phrase that's in both of these. And then we could spend some time until he gets connected.

We'll spend some time in, let me go to Revelation. Yeah, there's no

S on the end, just to be clear. And the reason there's no S is actually if we go back to chapter 1, verse 1, the revelation of Jesus Christ.

So that is why this book is called Revelation, not Revelations.

I don't know why people make it a plural. But so there's one phrase that appears in both first chapter 2, verse 9.

I'm sorry, chapter 2, verse 8. No, verse 9. And then in chapter 3, verse 9. So chapter 2, verse 9 says,

I know thy works and tribulation and poverty, but thou art rich.

And I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews and are not, but are of the synagogue of Satan.

And that same phrase is going to be in chapter 3, verse 9. I'll read that.

Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are

Jews but are not, but do lie. Behold, I will make them to come to worship before thy feet and know that I have loved thee.

So the term that you see twice here is the term synagogue of Satan.

Okay. You also see in both passages that this is defining people who say they are

Jews and are not. So let's break this down and until our friend here can get in here, which we're hoping that that works.

But he was trying to set up. We're trying to get his mic working. So basically what you see here, first off, this is written in Revelation 2 and 3 are written to seven churches that existed at the time of John.

John not only wrote them. It's actually kind of interesting if you look at the way that the letters are written.

There's a, basically it'd be the way, kind of think of like a post office route. That's basically the way these letters are written is if someone was going to deliver them and drop off the first one, the second one, just as he's going.

I like what KT, I think has it right there. It's not, it meant to be Mike with MIC, rapid port.

Yeah. That's probably what he's trying to say because it shows, you know, uses a microphone.

Leave it to KT. She's got it. Oh, I like what humble clay said here.

Hold on. Let's put this one. Humble clay says it's a Paul Jack's live day. One of my favorite, my favorite days of the week.

Oh, you know what? I forgot to do my friend. Oh, you should slap me. Huh? It's not

Thursday. Yeah, we, we got a review and we didn't start with our review.

Let us do that. Yeah. What was I thinking? My friend, we are just all over the place.

So we got a new review if, and, um, we, we would love to hear your reviews. If you want to leave us a review and the link to leave a review is just love the podcast .com

slash apologetics live in both a and L and apologetics live are capitalized.

So we got a review of five -star review. No less. It must be because of you pastor Justin from.

Well, yeah, it says great podcast has always this podcast glorifies

God. The last few shows on grace fellowship church have been eye opening.

I am so thankful that this cult and false teacher are being exposed.

Praise God for men like Andrew and others who are part of apologetics live.

So that's a review that I forgot to mention. You should have gotten on me.

What are you doing? Let me out. We have a friend that has said happy new year's. Yes.

Well, he's, he's happy. He's, he's happy because we are going towards socialism in this country and he likes that.

So I think that makes him a happy camper. So I want to show you something real quick.

I'm going to pop it up here. Let's see if it'll pop up. Let's see. There it is. Um, let me pull that banner off of here for a minute.

I don't know if you saw that, but, uh, this is who was hiding in the background. So that looks like some sort of actor.

So I said, pick the picture on the podcast. What, what Justin put up is a picture of people that were, that stormed the

Capitol. And you put some, someone obviously has showed a

Photoshopped in, but I have no idea who. You don't know who that is. That's Nicholas Cage for the national treasure movie.

He goes into the white house and he steals the, steals the, the constitution.

Yeah. Okay. So, um, back to work because I'm so pop culture literate.

I obviously knew that. Yeah. Okay. So, um, here's, here's what we want to do when we look at this, as we look at this text that we were looking at with revelation two, nine, and three, nine.

In both these cases, you're having to look at this and see that the, this is speaking about people who were alive at the time, uh, that John was writing.

This is written to the specific churches. So right off the bat, the one thing that we would notice is that, um, oh, he's saying, can

I call in? Unfortunately, this, that's the thing with live streams. There's no way this isn't like a zoom meeting.

Uh, I'm thinking he, he must be giving up and not be able to come in. That would be bummer, dude.

We will have to work with him during the week to, if, if he can't get in and see if we can, uh, work this out.

Yeah. I'd really rather have him in here. Um, well I'll, I'll continue the way we're going,

Justin. I'll just continue on and we'll, if he comes in, he comes in. If not, he might need to figure out a way to get hooked up.

So one of the things that when we are going to look at scripture is we got to look at who this is being written to.

So this is written to people who are alive at that time. Now, the idea that you have here is the synagogue of Satan would be, uh, the idea of it is that this is a synagogue of people of, that are unbelieving

Jewish people who were persecuting or going after the

Jewish Christians. And the, what you end up having in that is you end up having a case where there were those who would say they're, as if you look in Romans, not all

Israel is Israel is how Paul would argue it. And what he means there is that not all of the nation of Israel is spiritual

Israel. Now we talk about this in theological terms for those who study, uh, theology, or if you've got my book, what do we believe?

And you read the chapter on the church. You know, that we talk theologically about the, the church being the visible and invisible church or the local and universal.

And what we mean by that is the local visible churches is the church that meets on a regular basis.

They meet weekly and that they meet together, but we really don't know who's saved and who's not saved.

Okay. We'll also speak about the universal or, uh, invisible church, which is made up of believers and only believers everywhere in the world.

So every believer is part of the universal church. These are just theological terms that we end up using.

Now, as we look at the, those terms, we can, most Christians do not apply that same thinking to old

Testament Israel. This is where I think we see a distinction between, uh, what Justin, what you and I would know of as covenant theology and dispensational theology would be more in a dispensational camp.

And what you end up seeing in that is I would end up seeing that that same type of positioning that we have for the church we have for Israel.

So we often refer to national Israel. So we have national Israel and spiritual Israel. Natural Israel, like the local churches is, is made up of believers and unbelievers.

They're, they're visible. You can see them. But those that are spiritual Israel are like the universal church.

You can't really see who they are because we can't see who's, who's really a Christian or not, or can't really see who's the spiritual

Israel or not, because we can't see that. We can't see within what only God can see of the heart. And so what we end up seeing is that there are people that were of the nation of Israel that are not spiritual

Israel. Now, there are some like Paul, for example, like me, for example, that are both spiritual

Israel and national Israel. Okay. Now, my, the guest would strongly, strongly, strongly disagree with the idea that I would be of Israel, but sorry.

The way you actually determine genealogies is, you know, we have this in the Bible. You know, it's those passages,

Justin, that most people don't want to focus on. Yeah. The sleepy passages. Yeah. So -and -so begot so -and -so begot so -and -so begot so -and -so.

That's how you figure out genealogy. So how do we know that Abraham was a descendant of Moses?

Well, we'd go to see Abraham and who is his father and his father and his father, till you get back to, you know, get back up to there.

So if we want to look at, was Jesus of the line of David? Well, we would go back and back and back and back until we get to that genealogy.

That's how you do that. Now, the issue that I would have when you look at this is, is it even possible for people in the

African slave trade to be able to do such a genealogy?

The answer is no, not for most. Now I'm saying not for most for a reason.

There are some, and, you know, Alex Haley would be, would be an example. He's the author of Roots, where, you know, when

Kunta Kinte was captured and kidnapped, which the Bible condemns and brought over to this country as a slave, to him, it was so important that his children knew where he came from, that he taught them and they taught their children and their children and their children.

And so we end up having, and our guest is saying that genealogy is a joke. Well, genealogy is actually how we do these things.

Anything else, claiming you're of a line any other way than genealogy would be a joke.

And so he wants me to speak about how I converted to Judaism. I didn't convert to Judaism.

I was born in Judaism. I was born to Jewish parents and was in Hebrew school from the age of five until 14.

So you don't know anything about the Hebrew beliefs and customs and you're a novice.

Yeah, nothing at all. Yeah. I had like 10 years of Hebrew school.

It was enough. I couldn't wait to stop. But here's what you end up seeing is that the way you determine a genealogy, so if someone's in a certain line is through the genealogies, that's actually how it's done.

So what you end up seeing is when you try to take, and we're going to get to the Deuteronomy passage, when you try to go to the

Deuteronomy passage to say, well, that's a prophecy, the problem with doing that is that's okay if it would actually apply to you now.

So we'll start with the Revelation passage. We know that the people that John is writing to were alive at the time.

We know that the people at the time were of a synagogue. They claim to be

Jewish people, but we're not. And so the thing that you end up seeing with it is that the argument being made that the people who claim to be, and this is going to be the argument he would make if he was in here,

I'm sure, is that what would end up happening is that you see that this is speaking of the

Jewish people that claim to be Jews that weren't black. Okay. Now, is that what is being mentioned?

Well, the reason that they're called a synagogue of Satan from the context is because they attack the church.

So that's the context. Now, he's going to argue very quickly, I'm sure, if he was, you know, he's probably saying this in his, you know, wherever he's at right now, he's saying, that's because I keep going to this thing called context,

Justin. That's not how we read the Bible. In fact, he did say that in our, let's see if I could at least bring up some dialogue that we had, he and I.

I said, he gave me the verse I'm going to go to, Isaiah 28, 9, and 10.

And, you know, I told him that he needs, you know, to read that because he told me, I don't know how to read the

Bible. And, you know, he, it was also interesting, he was telling me that,

I guess that I speak Yiddish and he doesn't understand that Yiddish is a mixed dialect between German and Hebrew.

The Hebrew that most Black, and some, for folks who don't know, Black Hebrew Israelites will say that they speak

Hebrew, but the Hebrew dialect that they have, that they often speak is a dialect that started in the 1950s, 60s in Harlem, New York.

So that's, it's not the dialect. So, and he's actually posting it here nicely.

He's telling me, you know, Isaiah 28, 10, but he has that in the comments. But when

I told him to read that in context, I said, read that context. It condemns exactly what you do when you read things out of context.

I said, all I ask is that you read line upon line. And he said, he said, you are the devil.

It states law upon law. So let's read it. And it says,

Isaiah 28, verse nine, whom shall he, whom shall he teach knowledge and whom shall he make to understand doctrine?

Them that are weaned from the milk and draw from the breast for precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little.

Now he stops there. And what they always focus on is here a little, there a little. And what they say is the Bible wasn't meant to be written like a novel.

Well, actually it is. It exactly was meant to be written like a novel because it didn't have chapter and verse breaks, though from about till 800

AD. So for 800 years of the New Testament and about 2000 years of the

Old Testament. And by the way, Isaiah is Old Testament. So Isaiah was written 750

BC, add another 800 years to that and you're at 1500, 1600 years that Isaiah would not have had any chapter breaks or verses in it.

So to say that this was somehow teaching us that we should grab from over here and grab from over there and slam these together, by the way, proof texting.

Yeah. Proof texting one verse at a time. I found that as you were talking about, I found it interesting when you start out in Revelations that when he starts saying that this is for his group, the context of it is actually spoken of in the chapter, in the verse just before he's using in Revelation.

Yeah. The very context of it is to the angel of the church of Smyrna. And Smyrna is what we would call modern day

Turkey. It's not down in Africa or whatever.

It's in Turkey. Let me see if I can pull that up. But it's actually what's modern day

Turkey. And so for the application of that, it's not speaking of Africa or it's not speaking of an ethnic group in Africa that came over.

It's actually speaking specifically. And first, context means something and it means something to everybody, whether you like or not.

It starts out talking about Smyrna, you know, and yes, we can extrapolate that there's a type of church that's in Revelation that we see, but that does not negate that there is the starting point of the true

Smyrna that he's talking about. Well, and he's in chat saying that we are from Israel.

Now, so let me try to put that in the context, what I think he means, because there's a couple of different views with BHI people on this, but they would not have an issue with that with what you're saying there.

Some wouldn't. Some believe that the Israelites were in Israel and during the

Babylonian captivity and that the dispersion, they came down into Africa and that's where they ended up.

The Israelites then stayed there. Now, some will say that that happened after the 70

AD. So I'm not sure which camp he might be in. So he might be fine with you saying that Smyrna, because and it's not

Africa, because that wouldn't be he's saying now he's saying who migrated to Africa.

Well, if the Israelites left the land of Israel and went to Africa where they got kidnapped, they'd have to have migrated.

Just simple logic. And folks, this is the thing you'll see is that a lot of these guys don't apply logic, simple things of logic that would help them in understanding.

And you'll find that a lot of these guys are stuck in a belief system that is thoroughly racist.

Now, I don't know which camp he is in, but there are some that I've dealt with on the streets that actually and this might help us to understand when you saw people during the

Black Lives Matter protests where they had the whites kissing their shoes and licking their boots and things like that.

And a lot of people didn't understand that. But if you understand this, some of the

BHI groups, they believe what they're looking forward to is their end times view is that the whites will be their slaves.

And that is what they look forward to. Not all the groups, but some of the groups.

And those would then feed into what was going on during those protests. So, we're in Isaiah 28.

Now, this is important because this is going to be a core thing. If you ever talk to people that are

Black Hebrew Israelites, and sometimes they go by Hebrew Israelites, they drop the black part. And so, what you end up seeing in there is the case that they will turn to this passage in Isaiah regularly.

Okay, because this is a core underlying belief that you take the Bible, you just grab from one section here, one section there, and you put them all together.

You'll find that very rarely will they take a passage and read it in context.

He's saying white Hebrew Israel is you. Hold on, hold on, hold on.

Let me go ahead. Go ahead. Hold on. I'm going to just check something. Let me just check. This is a white piece of paper.

Yeah. Yeah, I'm not that white. Okay. I got to ask you a question.

I'm just a Hebrew Israelite. Go for it. I got to ask a question. So, I posted this just a second ago, and I don't know his name.

So, Mr. Hebrew Israelite. Well, hold on, hold on. We have him telling his name.

I'm not going to play with his phone number, but here he'll tell us his name. Yes, this is

God's chosen. So, now you know his name. His name is God's chosen. Okay.

Yeah, I mean, I did want to ask him, is that what his mother named him out of the womb?

Yeah. I mean, was she Mrs. Chosen, and she named her son God? Because, you know, that would be kind of like blasphemy.

Well, see, here's my problem. I mean, I hear the arguments, the straw man, and everything else, but he started out when the discussion began here with genealogy as a joke.

I posted it up here. So, how is he appealing to your whiteness or my whiteness or his lineage from coming down from, you know,

Israel, Africa? This all has to deal with genealogy. So, either it's a joke or it's not.

Well, here's what I think is a joke when it comes to genealogy. The Africans in America will almost universally believe that they're all from Judah, which is a genealogy thing, right?

How did they get there? They're all from a line of the 12 tribes. They're all from Judah. It's interesting because I'm trying to remember.

I think it's the—is it Dan that is in Jamaica? They have different areas where, like,

Dan is in, like, Jamaica, and Haiti is Natalithi. You know, they each—I forget which—who's where, but each of the 12 tribes were captured.

So, here's the thing that, do we really believe that kidnappers, slave traders were so concerned about keeping the genealogy together that they said, oh, oh, you're of the line of Judah?

We got to ship you to America. Dan, you have to go to Jamaica.

You know, so they say that they know—and I've heard this from many of them—they know they're of Judah because they're in America.

And somehow it's us who don't understand genealogy is a joke.

I—you know, but I digress. So, let me get to Isaiah 28 here because if our friend were to read this in context, read it the way

Isaiah meant it to be written, the way he wrote it without the chapter breaks, if he was to back up a little bit, let's read the context here.

Start at verse 1. There you go. That's a good place to start. Yeah, yeah.

Woe to the crown of pride, to the drunkards of Ephraim, whose glorious beauty is a fading flower, which are on the head of the fat valleys, of them that overcome with wine.

Behold, the Lord hath a mighty and strong one, which as a tempest of hail and a destroying storm—so far this doesn't sound like a positive thing—as a flood of mighty waters overflowing shall cast down to the earth with his hand.

The crown of pride, the drunkard of Ephraim, shall be trodden underfoot, and the glorious beauty, which is on the head of the fat valley, shall be fading flower.

And as the hasty fruit before the summer, which when he that looketh upon it seeth, while it is yet in his hand has eaten it up, in that day the

Lord of hosts be for a crown of glory and for a diadem of beauty unto the residue of his people, and for a spirit of judgment to him that sitteth in judgment, and for strength to them that turn the battle to the gate.

But they also have erred through wine and through strong drink and are out of the way.

The priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink. They are swallowed up of wine.

They are out of the way through strong drink. They err in vision.

They stumble in judgment. They stumble in judgment. Okay. So, this is the context here for verse 8.

For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so there is no place clean.

That's not a very pretty description here. And that is just before the passage we read here in verse 9.

Whom shall he teach knowledge? And whom shall he make to understand doctrine?

Them that are weaned from the milk and drawn from the breast? For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little.

For with stammering lips and another tongue he will speak to this people, to whom he said, this is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest, and this is the refreshing.

Yet they would not hear, but the word of the Lord was unto them, precept upon precept, precept upon precept, line upon line, line upon line, here a little, there a little, that they might go and fall backward and be broken and snared and taken.

So, they use this passage. That's actually a passage of judgment. Okay. And they take just, they want just the one phrase, here a little, there a little.

But if you're going to look at that, it says precept upon precept. So, you take the concepts upon concepts, you put them, you build them upon one another, but line upon line, huh?

Line upon line means reading in context. That's the very thing they say we shouldn't do.

Absolutely. The verse actually says that the way they're interpreting it is incorrect.

Now, he's telling me I will be judged, by the way. Oh, yeah. He's saying you do not know

Jewish people, I don't know what word that's supposed to be, are synagogue of Satan.

Yes, context, law upon law. The Jewish people today, you know, people who are

Jewish people are not the synagogue of Satan that was spoken there. Why? Because we didn't live that long.

Well, it actually says in verse seven, that's why I pulled it up. But they also have erred through wine and through strong drink.

Out of the way, the priest and the prophets have erred. Talking about Isaiah, it's not talking about, you know, those that traveled or those that migrated or whatever else.

Isaiah is condemning the prophets and priests of Israel who have fallen away from God.

And it's the people of the Jewish line, not the, you know, whatever line he's trying to make up here.

Yeah, he's saying we're Amalekites. So let's deal now with the one passage that universally,

I think, all Black Hebrew Israelites hold to. That's this Deuteronomy 2869 passage.

Okay? This is, it's kind of actually sad that they all look to this and try to use this as a prophecy.

One, because they're not, they can't stay consistent with their own interpretation.

Okay? Two, a second reason that you end up seeing that this is a problem for them, because they don't understand history.

So let's go through this and see if we could figure out what this passage is saying to us.

Okay? All right. So Deuteronomy 2868 says,

Let's break this down. Okay? So first, the

Lord is going to do this. So this is the Lord. Okay? That's kind of clear.

And the Lord shall bring them into Egypt. Now, here's a dilemma. Were the

Africans, the African slaves, were they brought into Egypt?

Not that I know of. Yeah. So that's a pretty simple question. So the

Egypt, they will say, is basically meaning slavery.

It doesn't mean Egypt. Okay? So they're saying that this is

Egypt, not Egypt as in the land, but as in slavery.

Now, so right off the bat, you see that they're saying that this is a figurative thing.

Correct? The Egypt is figurative. That's convenient. I mean, you know, if you're going to. Yeah. But the ships is not, because that's the whole, all of B .H

.I. stands on one word. This word, ships. So the whole thing that they want to do is say that the ships are literal.

And those are the ships that carried these Israelites from Africa to the

Americas in the African slave trade. Okay. So ships is literal.

Egypt is not. Is there anything in this context, Justin, you see anything at all that would lead us?

Like, if I say, I'm so hungry, I can eat a cow. You understand, or at least you believe that I can't eat a full cow.

Well, I don't know. I've been around you. I could at least eat, you know, you figure if it's sushi,

I could probably eat a whole cow full of sushi. Yeah. I can see that. Yeah. So what you end up seeing is that there's nothing in the context that explains why the

Egypt would be figurative, but the ships would be literal. Yeah, there's nothing that changes.

There's no reason for the intellectual change for you to think it to be one thing versus the other.

Okay. So let's go with it and say, okay,

I don't know who Facebook user is saying, but saying that Andrew can't get in. So who's ever trying to get in?

First off, go to projectlive .com. And when you go there, there is instructions so that you can have your name show up.

So Justin, maybe you could go through Facebook and find out. I don't know if you're friends with Andrew there, but maybe you could help him get in.

I think maybe he has a question. All right. So meanwhile, I will continue on with this.

So what we end up seeing is if Egypt is figurative, ships is literal, if this is speaking of the

Israelites being captured and taken over in the African slave trade, if that's what this is referring to, let us see if the rest of this describes the

African slave trade. First off, we see that God said that they wouldn't see this land again.

He says, thou shalt see it no more. So God said they wouldn't go back to or he wouldn't send them back to Egypt.

Now, God was speaking of the physical land of Egypt. They're saying that, no, this is speaking of slavery.

The problem with that is that the Israelites were enslaved by the

Babylonians, the Medo -Persians, the Greeks, and the Romans. And so it becomes an interesting kind of dilemma for them because if this is slavery, and God said they wouldn't see slavery anymore, yet they saw slavery with the

Babylonians, the Medo -Persians, the Greeks, the Romans, and then the Americans, which it's kind of interesting because one of the problems with this that I always find interesting, what we end up seeing is that, and I'm going to, our friend is in here three times.

So maybe one reason people are having trouble is I'm going to kick the first two. I hope that I didn't kick the wrong one.

I hope he's still here. So what we end up seeing here is that as you look at this, this is speaking of, if you take their argument, that God said,

I wouldn't send you back into slavery, but then he did it time and time and time again.

Because the Babylonians was a promise. That was a prophecy, a judgment from God that the

Babylonians, the Gentile nations would capture the Israelites and put them into 70 years of captivity.

This is what Jeremiah prophesied. And it was a judgment because for 77 year periods,

Israel did not keep the Jubilee year. They did not have that Sabbath year.

I said, Jubilee. That was wrong. It's the Sabbath year. And so at the end of that, they had 70 years of captivity.

No, you are not reading in context, only 70 years. Yeah. So 70 years for the

Babylonians, but they weren't freed after that. They were enslaved by the Medo -Persians.

Some returned to Israel during the period of the Medo -Persians, but then the Greeks conquered that area.

So did the Romans. So the issue though is, think about the argument, how tangled of a mess this becomes.

What you end up having is God saying he would not send them into slavery again, but then will bring about a country to bring them into 70 years of slavery.

So the God of BHI is a God that either lies, can't keep his promises, or isn't faithful.

Exactly. Because he promised here in Deuteronomy that he wouldn't bring them back.

This is coming out of their enslavement in Egypt. So if this is that he promises them back then that they're not going to be back there, he's not going to bring them back there.

But then they're saying that's dealing with slavery, and then God brings about their slavery would be a problem.

Okay. You see how this becomes a mess. It's even messier. It's even messier for this reason.

It's even messier because if they say this is the African slave trade, these slaves that are described that you shall be sold unto your enemies for bond men and bond women.

Okay. First off, you have to keep in mind, the slavery in Africa didn't start with the

Europeans. It actually started with the Africans. Exactly.

The Africans were enslaving Africans. And when the Europeans came in, they came and kidnap people on the coast.

But it was the Africans that went into the inner lands and kidnap people and brought them out.

They were the slave traders as well. So Israel was trading themselves.

That's getting messed up. But I could be wrong about this. But this text here says, and no man shall buy you.

Now, in the African slave trade, in all your study of American history, Justin, when they kidnapped the people from Africa, brought them over here, and they put them up for sale, did people buy them?

Well, yeah. Actually, they bought them in Africa when the greater clans actually came together.

Clan is a Scottish term, but that's where I'm from. The greater clans actually came together and warred against one another.

The tribes did. And they warred against one another. And as you were saying, they overtook one another.

And then they sold their enemies into slavery by people that bought them.

So they were bought and sold multiple times. Yeah. And, you know, okay,

I'm going to bite, but Ricky Gantz is saying, question, when you say to a

Hebrew Israelite regarding Deuteronomy 28, being literal or not, my question is, how do you read

Revelation 21 through 3? Is that all literal? Yeah, it's literally what he saw.

He literally saw a dream. So not really hard. Um, so I guess that's probably back to, you know, not having a literal thousand year millennium.

But you have to think about, too, though, the context of what's going on today. I mean, I actually heard,

I was talking to one gentleman. He said, I'm still holding on to that post meal because I really got to hold on here.

And I'm holding on. And I said, keep living the dream, brother. Keep living the dream. So I so wish,

I so wish that I could put up the private chat right now. Our BHI friend says,

Mike, come on. Answer, bro. Mike. Okay. Mike. Hey, Mike.

Oh, wait, wait, wait. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on. Hi, Mike. That says

Mike, right? I could be mistaken. I'm sorry. I had to put in a cluck commander.

I had to put in the cluck commander. Maybe you got Mike the chicken. Is he in there? Yeah. Maybe that's where Mike is.

All our chickens are female. So yeah, we all have female names. But wait, no, no, no.

You're gender norming or what do you call that? All right. So here's the thing that we end up seeing from this one passage.

Okay. There's a mixing of, oh, he's saying, come on, ladies. We're getting to the insults now.

Okay. I really wish he could come in. He's got to get that figured out. Maybe next week we could do that.

Here's what you end up seeing. The mix is more than just literal and figurative in the same text with nothing in the text to say that this shouldn't be, that this should be literal and this should be figurative.

Okay. You know, so what you end up seeing here is that here, okay, what does

Pastor Michael say? The African slave traders sold slaves long before anyone got them.

Yeah, that's true. That's what I was saying. So thank you for that. And actually, for the folks who know

Daryl from Just Thinking, the Just Thinking podcast, he talks about his family lineage, that his family was slave traders in Africa.

They were the African slave traders that sold to them. So now you see the mess that they have in this one passage as key.

This is the passage for us to look at when it comes to Black Hebrew Israelites or Hebrew Israelites, however they want to go by it.

The thing is that it's hard to say Hebrew Israelites because that's me.

They make the distinction based on color of skin. And what he's trying to say is

I'm not Black. Well, I'm not white. But these are the terms that get used for the color of skin because we can't seem to use words that describe it,

I guess. I don't know. So here's what you end up having. You have a mix of literal and figurative.

They're messed up in there. But you also don't have it fitting with what happened in the

African slave trade. Because they were sold for money.

There were people buying them. So the question is, is there a better way to understand this?

Well, let's see if we take this all literal, which if you read all of the context surrounding it, it's all literal.

And this is a literal promise. So what does he say? And the Lord shall bring thee into Egypt.

Okay, let's assume that is Egypt, like the nation, with ships.

Okay, Egypt is on a waterway. They do take ships there. By the way whereof

I spake unto thee, thou shalt not see it no more again. And there ye shall be sold unto your enemies for bondsmen and bondswomen, and no man shall buy you.

How do you get sold without having someone buy you? It's very simple.

You sell yourself. That's how you do it. That's how slavery would work.

And so is there a time when this happened? Yeah, the argument that's made is that there's no way that the

Israelites, when they were fleeing the Babylonian captivity, because we do know they fled and got to Egypt.

Okay, those records are known. They came down. The argument is that the only way they could have come is by land.

Says who? The quickest way to travel, if you are in a rush and you're trying to flee, you're going to flee the quickest way you can, which would be by a ship.

Now, did some go by land? Yes, they did. But those that could and were fleeing quickly went by ship.

And where did they go? They went to Egypt, the actual land of Egypt. We have documentation on that.

So what you end up seeing is this was fulfilled during the captivity, during the dispersion that occurred.

And so this was something that we actually see in history. Now, I know he's going to be upset because they rewrite history.

Everyone else, and this is the thing you have to understand with BHI, everybody is lying, everybody.

I mean, you know, and Ricky's in the chat. Ricky has dealt with this in Cleveland countless times.

He has engaged with them. I think he's even had them on his show. He and I were once in Cleveland, and they were, they got video of it.

And so, and it was really wicked what we heard them saying when we went away. Okay.

So let me put up what Ricky says here. Ricky is saying, when they say there will be no buyer, they take that to mean no redeemer.

Not literally someone buying them in slavery. And they believe they are still in bondage and no one has redeemed them.

And he's right, and that's how, and in the private chat, our friend is saying 400 years, 400 years, 400 years.

They're arguing that the 400 years of slavery, that that's when the redeemer is going to come.

But the 400 years was a couple of years ago. Sorry, again, failed the prophecy.

So, and so even if you take like what Ricky was saying, that they would say there's no one to redeem them.

Okay, you're still taking, again, you're taking things literal, you're mixing the literal and the figurative with nothing here to explain why.

When we do have something that fits naturally within history. Okay.

And Linda is saying everyone is a liar but them. Essentially, when it comes to history, yes. You know,

Humble Clay says here, that is what indoctrination does. Everyone else is wrong. That's right.

Let's just, you know, because someone does this sometimes, we're going to embarrass Pastor Justin. Look at him eating. He took himself off camera so he could eat.

He always brings in the Kluck commander and to embarrass him. John, that one was for you, just since you, you know.

Brussels sprouts and fish. All right. So, you see that the key verse that they use doesn't fit.

It doesn't fit in a natural reading, in the simple reading of it. It doesn't fit with the history of it.

Now, they're going to argue and, you know, if he was to come in here, he would be arguing that the

Israelites are black because of all the passages that talk about having brillowy hair.

Yeah. Well, if I didn't keep my hair short and, you know, brush it out for years and years and years, it's naturally curly.

It is bristly. Okay. They'll say bronze skin. Well, okay. I lack melanin, but most of Israel don't have as little melanin as I do.

So, you know, but their arguments are they're trying to take some different things and use them to make the case that it's talking about blacks.

So, I wonder, you know, Justin, if we found a verse. Now, let's apply their style of interpretation, here a little, there a little, take things literal or figurative, however we want to do it, you know, to grab whatever we need out of a passage.

If we were to do something like that and we were to go to Mark chapter 9.

Now, if we take their way of interpreting, where everything's about color of skin, well, then we have ourselves a problem.

This is what Mark chapter 9 says. I'll start in verse 1. And he said unto them, verily

I say unto you, that there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death until they see the kingdom of God with power.

And after six days, Jesus taketh them, taketh with him

Peter and James and John and leadeth them up to a high mountain apart from themselves, apart by themselves.

And he was transfigured before them. And his remnant became shining, exceedingly white as snow, so as no fuller on earth can white them.

Okay. So what does that say? That Jesus is so white. He's not only whiter than snow.

He's so white that a fuller, and most people don't know what a fuller is. A fuller would be like the dry cleaner of the day.

A fuller is someone who would take, get stains out of clothes. So the fuller would use things like bleach.

He's white though. It's funny. He's telling me I need to read the KJV. I did.

That's how it says taketh. So it's kind of funny. He doesn't even know his own.

Yeah, he's a KJV only, and he doesn't even recognize the KJV. But actually he is right, by the way, because he doesn't read the

KJV, neither do we. We read from Authorized, which was in the 1700s.

That's the version that he reads from. He probably can't read easily the 1611

KJV. All right. So what do you see? You end up seeing that this says that he became exceedingly white.

Not just white as snow, but so white that bleach, someone using bleach can't white them. He is the most white thing you can ever have.

He would be whiter than me. He would be white like the paper, right?

Now, he's calling me an idiot. He says I can't read. Actually, I did read it. Now, here's the thing that you will always notice with BHI folks.

I want you guys to notice this in case you ever come upon them. He's calling me an idiot because I can't read.

Because he knows I did something wrong. What is it that I did? As his remnant, he's going to say that's his clothing.

Well, it's actually more than just his clothing, but it is his clothing. It's his clothing. It's the whole aura around him.

Everything around him became so white. But the thing that you end up seeing there is that when you take this and then compare to what they do in Revelation 1, 14 and 15, which you have there on the screen, his head on his hairs were white like wool and white like snow and his eyes were a flame of fire and his feet were like fine brass.

And if they burned in the furnace and his voice would sound like many waters. So his hair is white like wool, white as snow.

So we could take these two, put them together and say, see, he's white. That's not actually the right way to do this, though, is it?

I mean, it's not the proper way to interpret this because it's not speaking of the color of his skin.

This is not speaking of melanin. But you know why our friend chosen,

God's chosen, as he calls himself, why he has a problem?

Because he can't keep the same reading that he does here and why he says that I'm doing it wrong here.

He can't apply that to Deuteronomy 28, 68. You see, he cannot stay consistent where I can.

This is the difference that you have. You have to recognize when you come upon these people, they are not being consistent with their own.

Now he's saying I'm a fraud. When you have to resort to insults, it shows that you cannot defend your own argument.

You know, and if we figure out how to get in here so we can have this discussion. Because and I'm even laying out my argument for him.

He can get this whole thing and he should know how to respond to it. The one thing he won't be able to do is he would not be able to do,

Justin, what we're doing here tonight. You know what I notice is that you have, I'm sorry. He would not be able to sit with one passage, work through the passage before moving on to another.

He has to take a verse here, a verse there, rip them out of their context and slam them together. He must do that.

You know, one thing I've noticed, I'm noticing in this conversation and I'm seeing behind the scenes at the private chat.

And the one thing I'm noticing behind the scenes and in this conversation is as we're going through the

Bible passages, there seems to be a persecution complex where they're taking persecution passage.

Like I have on the screen here, Revelation 2 .9, I know thy works and tribulation and poverty.

You see, I'm really rich, but you know, that's got to be talking about my genealogy.

You know, you go to Isaiah, that's got to be talking about my genealogy because we were slaved.

We were put on ships. And so what it is, is I'm isogenizing the text of scripture and I'm trying to make these passages talk about me or my family or my line, my genealogy.

And it can't be, you know, the people of Israel, you know, that's kind of like those that say that, you know, you know,

Israel is the church and church is Israel and there is no biblical understanding of division.

There is no, you know, the continuity, discontinuity, error issues that are going on. And, you know, you talk about those issues and you say, you know, well, it's got to be the same thing or you got to twist it to make it fit your narrative.

And the problem is, is if you just read the scripture, you know, based on the literary context, you know, literal and literary context, depending on the genre, you know, as Chris said,

Chris Honholz, I'll tell you guys, if you don't listen to Chris, you may not be saved.

What's the reason radio is the podcast to listen to Chris Honholz and you want to listen. Yeah, a lot.

If you're not listening to him and Richard's story. Yeah. And, you know, these guys are fabulous and, and, you know, they're right.

Context is king. You know, it's you can't just pull these things out and make your own doctrine because, you know,

I'm gonna tell you, Mike Reed has done the same thing, you know, and so has many and I'm not, I'm not trying to pick, but, you know, we've talked about this so much.

It is dangerous. It's harmful to people's conscience and to the soul of the person.

You know, there are people going to go to hell for not, you know, rightly dividing the word of truth.

They're going to think they're saved when they're not, you know, I, I don't know that much about the black

Hebrew, Hebrew is like movement, but I do know that, you know, their, their Messiah is not given to him yet from what

I understand. And in some of the context, well, are they saying that Jesus Christ is not the, you know, the

Messiah, you know, and I've heard that. I don't know if he would take it that far or not, but I've heard that in some of the teaching.

Maybe you could talk on that for a moment. Well, I mean, one of the things that you end up seeing though, because they can't stay consistent with their thinking and state of context.

And this is why I bring up the Mark passage, the Mark 9 passage, because that one clearly if, if I interpret the way they interpret, then

Jesus is so super white that you can't even bleach him. I mean, he's whiter than snow.

He is so super white and, and they, they freak if you say something like that, but that's their interpretation.

That's their hermeneutic, their style of interpretation. That's what they're doing. You see, so they recognize that when we do it, it's wrong.

They just don't recognize that when they do it, it's wrong. See, it's wrong both times that you do that. So I, that's why

I bring the passage up because it exposes. He's, he's saying that I have cognitive dissonance.

Cognitive dissonance is, was just proven that he has it. Right? Because he knew he, he said that what

I was doing was wrong. Did he just look that up? And maybe, so Chris Honhold says, this is the problem with so many false theologies.

They want to put their presuppositions ahead of scripture instead of having their thinking informed by scripture.

And, and this is the point. One of the two things is going to happen. Your theology is going to interpret your scriptures or your scriptures are going to interpret your theology.

This is the problem the Catholic church had. Catholic church said that the church is the only thing that can interpret the scriptures and therefore.

The, you need the church, but if the church is the only thing that can interpret the scriptures and the church is higher in authority than the scriptures, because you need that to understand the scriptures.

So you end up having that where they use their theology to interpret the scriptures. Now we end up looking at this and realizing that as we examine it, that the other way and the proper way is let the scriptures interpret your theology.

And our friend here has a problem because he can't stay consistent with the scriptures and no

BHI can to stay consistent with the scriptures to be able to stay consistent and keep their theology because the passage that they hold to in Deuteronomy 28 breaks down.

Okay. It, it, it, you cannot stay consistent. The passages they use to try to argue that everyone is black.

That's an Israelite breaks down because what did I do? I took the very same things that they do with the passages where they say that Israelites are black because of the, the, the, their hairs like Brillo or the bronze skin, or, you know, whatever they're doing, we're just as they're bronze, things like this.

And they'll say, see, that means they're black. Well, this means Jesus is white. I did the same exact thing.

That would be consistent, but they recognize it's wrong when you do it with Jesus being white.

Why? Because of the fact that it is not consistent with their theology.

Okay. And why he's getting so upset in the, Yeah, he's getting pretty mad.

Consistent. Can you find Revelation 33, Revelations 33 .9

for me? Revelations. Well, yeah. Revelations. Yeah.

33 .9. If you could find that, I'd appreciate it. I'm trying to find it. I'm not finding it, but.

I'm not finding it anywhere. I'm having trouble because I think, I think the last that we get is Revelation 22, 21.

Could, could it be, could it be that maybe, maybe he added to scripture? I don't know, man. He probably. No, he, he corrected it.

Three, nine. Yeah. You never edified me about Revelations two, nine or three, three, nine.

I'm not sure if he just doesn't know which one he's talking about. No, well, it's both. So Revelation, Revelation two, nine and three, nine, both talk about Israel, not being those that claim to be

Israel are actually the synagogue of Satan. So those were national Israelites that were not saved that were attacking the church.

And we looked at the context and the context was people that were attacking the church. Now, here's the interesting thing.

I'm going to play this again from earlier because you see him in the private chat and he's telling us the meaning, isn't he?

And yet here was the voice message he left. You tell me, since he's trying to teach us what

Revelation two, nine and Revelation three, nine are, did he lie when he said this and left this as a voicemail?

Yes. I'm trying to get in touch with Mike Rappaport in reference to Revelations two and nine and Revelations three and nine.

I don't understand it. And also, he doesn't understand it.

Yeah. And yet what's he doing in the private chat there? Trying to explain to us what he thinks is the proper meaning.

So the only thing we could be left with is, did he lie on that when he called and asked for understanding?

So, you know, I'm just pointing it out. I do like that he says

Revelation two, nine, three, nine from your view, Mike. Yeah, he said it again. He really doesn't get the fact that he doesn't,

I mean, he was, Chris Honnold just saying, Mike, you got a new identity,

Andrew. Chris has several superhero identities. I could just be Mike, I guess.

I'm in shock. It's like, I mean, you know, our friend, the chosen one here, he's obviously listening.

And he still hasn't figured out that my name is not Mike. It's not

Mike. I mean, you know, it's... Seriously, Revelation is plural. Okay, let's...

No way. Hold on. He did not say that. Yes, he did. Look in this private chat.

So everyone open your Bible. Oh, yeah, this should be a fun experiment.

Let me share the screen and we'll look. You know, this is his authorized version.

So, you know, if you're watching here...

Oh, I might have to give permission, but let's see. You don't have to share it. Let's see if I'm going to...

It's complicated for you, isn't it? I can do it for you. No, it's... Well, yeah, you could. What it is, I need to...

I upgraded the computer here. Okay, wait a minute. Cluck, our dear

Cluck commander... Wait a minute. I said it, not him. He was playing. So, okay. For a friend...

See, I actually know what his real name is. I'm tempted to use it, but... Because he's not

God's chosen. So I'm not going to use that. So that looks like that's a singular, isn't it?

Yeah, I agree with you there. And it's because it says right there, the revelation.

Look at that word. The revelation of Jesus Christ. Ah, the revelation.

Ah, that's it. It's the revelation. So that's why we're saying it's singular, because it is.

I mean, this is the thing you have. I mean, they will fight with you over every little thing.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Trying to see if I can pull this up for you. What we end up seeing is, just to wrap this up a bit, when we look at what these guys hold to, there is the reality that with BHI, Black Hebrew Israelites, their key passage they have to go to is one that they cannot interpret in context.

Ah, and also you see that the ones that they're going to try to argue for, you end up seeing that they are not able to stay consistent with the way that they're going to try to say that Jesus is

Black. Because I can pull up passages that say he's white. And they call foul, because they know that it violated the rules.

But see, I'm just doing here a little, there a little. What's the problem? You see, that's what they do. They grab from here, they grab from there, slam it together.

Well, I just did the same exact thing. So, I should be good. So, that should be clear proof that Jesus is white.

And if they don't accept that Jesus is white, then they have to throw out all of the other things that they were doing to try to say that the

Israelites are Black. Now, they create a whole history on this. And maybe if he comes in here, now he's going to have trouble because he's calling me

Andy. That's insulting. Because that's not my name either. No, I wouldn't call him Andy.

Yeah, you don't want to do that. But he says, I'm an imposter. And according to the Bible, I will go to hell and into slavery.

What verse exactly says that? What verse says Andrew's going to hell?

I would love to see that one. Now, what he's going to do is he's going to say, it's because I claim to be an

Israelite when I'm not. Be careful. Be careful there. Because if that's the case, if that's the case, you're claiming to be an

Israelite. And you're not. Now, he's saying what? I guess this is

Revelation 13, 10, I think he's saying. And he that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity.

And he that killeth with sword must be killed by sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.

Um, I, that could be wrong. Justin, is that telling me that I'm going to hell? Yeah, I, let me read again.

Maybe we missed it. Maybe we, maybe I read it too quickly. Give me, give me a second chance at this, Justin. We can do this.

Go for it, brother. You can make it. Revelation 13, 10, I'll slow it down. He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity.

He that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword.

There is the patience and the faith of the saints. Okay. Um, so let's pull this up on, uh, just so we all understand,

I pulled this up for everybody to see. This is the 1611, uh, because he's not reading the inspired, the, the inerrant inspired, inspired

King James, if he's not reading the 1611. So, um, he needs to, he needs to read it from the actual, you know,

Actually, no, that you, you actually, I don't, I'm not sure that's the 1611, my friend. No, it is.

It is, but it's not there. What's that? You have S's and not F's.

So they didn't have V's and they didn't have, they, you'd see the U, like you have is

U instead of V, but, uh, they would have F instead of S. So no, you're right.

Yep. Yeah, that was probably the, um, cause there were several, you had several different, uh, translations of it.

Yep. Um, so you had the, this might be the Blaney, but then you have, um, thinking of six, 1658 and 44, 44 was the next big one.

The one we typically use is 1700s. I want to say 1740s or 1750s.

So, so here's the thing. Let me, let me wrap up though, for the last bit that we have Justin with, let me give you and the audience a way to be able to, to pick up on tactics when dealing with black

Hebrew Israelites. And if you want, go to my podcast, the rap report and just do a search on,

I think it's BHI or black Hebrew Israelites, um, or go to our YouTube channel. You'll see different things we have on there, but I do have one where I give you an exchange.

You actually hear me in the, uh, in union square dealing with, uh, these fake

Israelites. Okay. And I'm going to either fake Israelites is what they really are because they're not Israelites. They claim to be

Israelites without a genealogy. They claim to be Israelites that somehow, uh, the, the slave traders knew to keep them together.

Now, here's an interesting thing, by the way, I didn't mention just logically. And, uh, on my, I think I have this on my rap report daily, the shorter two minute one,

I spent a week on BHI. And one of the things I said there is to think about, uh, so if all the slaves, we know that all the

Israelites were those that were in the slave trade. So you got one brother that's kidnapped and, you know, another brother that's not, does that mean only one brother is the

Israelite? Like what happens to the other? Yeah. So he must not have been Israel because he wasn't involved in that.

Right. I mean, just logically, you see how these things end up breaking down. So how do you, what do you do when you have these guys?

One of the things that you're going to find is they very rarely will they, uh, talk to you one -on -one.

And so you usually have, they have a pack mentality. And so one of the things you want to do in talking to them is you got to figure out who you're going to speak to.

Who's the kind of the leader? Who is the one that the others are listening to? And that's the one you talk to and ignore the others.

Because what they're going to do is when the, when the one guy gets stuck, the others just shout things. You're going to see that they can't do what we did here tonight.

We didn't go through a ton of passages of scripture, but what did we do? We read them in context, explain them.

We can sit down and engage with what the scripture says. What you're going to see when, if he comes on next week or whenever he can come on, when he gets the technology figured out, what is he going to do?

He's going to grab a verse here, grab a verse there, grab a verse here. He's just going to slam them all together. And, you know, what you end up seeing,

Chris, Chris Honnold is saying, still hard to believe we can keep, we can keep Andrew down to just two minutes on anything.

I can do it, you know, but what you end up seeing is that they will, they will have to jump all over the

Bible. They cannot stay within the context. I need to ask a question. I'm having a conversation with him in the background,

I think you're seeing it, about the gospel. And I'm asking him if we are fake and we're phony, we're frauds and we're all going to hell for a thousand years, we're going to be captivity, our forefathers, all this stuff.

Um, um, I'm asking him to share the gospel with us. Do they believe in sharing the gospel with, um, with anyone or?

Here would be the question. What is the gospel? Like, what is it that is saving him? Yeah. The reason

I say that is because, see, you and I, well, me, I'm cursed to hell because I'm white for most

BHI, you have some reddish skin. So if I think that, you know, you may be okay if you're, if you have,

I think with Irish, it's something with the Irish or that, uh, it's okay. Cause you have red, red hair.

Um, so what you end up seeing though is Scottish, by the way, Scottish.

Yeah. Well, what you end up seeing is that many of them believe that because they're black, they're

Israelites because they're Israelites, they're automatically saved. So what is the proof that they're saved? The color of their skin.

Okay. They, they divide everyone by color of skin. Um, that's called racism.

Yeah. Okay. So one of the things you're going to find with BHI is it is extremely racist.

In fact, it is the bedrock racism is the bedrock of BHI. Okay. And so, um, what you end up having to deal with when you deal with these guys is the fact that they're going to jump all over the

Bible. So what you do, don't let them, you got to stop them. You got to stop them and say, no, wait, let's read this context.

They won't want to do that when they do that. And they jump all over. Just go to, go to Matthew nine and prove that Jesus is white.

And they're going to say, no, you can't do that. Well, then you, this, uh, in this conversation that I'm having,

I'm going to bring this up. Um, what is it that is saving you? And he says, uh, well, the first conversation

I said is, um, um, uh, what is the gospel?

He says, okay, it's a pack mentality. He goes, I said, no, I just want to know if you care about our souls.

Um, because I think everyone here can attest that we, we hear at apologetics live striving for eternity, uh, within this body and this fellowship of loving brothers, we care about the people's souls and we want you to know

Christ. Okay. Uh, so I want to know if you claim to be a Christian, do you care about the souls of the people that you interact with?

Cause I don't care about what you think. If you don't care about the gospel of Jesus Christ, cause you're wrong.

Okay. He says, God has one thing real quick because many

BH, I won't say they're Christian. Okay. And okay. So he keeps calling me

Andy. So Andy was the name that my mother called me. And when she died, it died.

So you call me Andy to me, you are, you're insulting me for something that, you know, for a son that's dear to me with the name for my mother.

So you want to call me, my name's Andrew. If you really have a hard time with it, it's right there on the screen.

It's been there all night. Yeah. Oh yeah. Okay. Oh, okay.

So look here, he says, um, when

I asked him, I asked him, you know, do you care about our souls? His response was the earth is given to evil.

And I said, so, uh, what is saving you? He hasn't answered that. And, uh, so, um, so I asked, so am

I of the earth and unsavable? He said, he, he, he did answer the question, right? He said, what did you said?

You asked, and he said, no, read Romans nine 13. You are Esau. So in other words, I'm hated. Yeah, I'm hated.

And the whole point is there is no gospel. How could you be Esau? Well, true.

He's going to argue you're Esau because of a genealogy. Yeah. See, this is where you see the inconsistency.

You're Esau because of a genealogy. I'm not really Jewish or an

Israelite because I'm a, you know, he'll say that I'm, I'm actually European and the, the lineage there.

So, but, but when you use that on him, oh, that doesn't, it doesn't count that way.

You see, that's the inconsistency, but continue. Yeah. Well, and I'm, I'm looking at this and he says, um, uh, insulting you, um, by the way, don't insult him or I'm going to kick you off the show.

I'm done with it. Um, because it's, it's very disrespectful. I'm tired of it. Um, lineage, lineage, lineage, uh, uh,

BHI even believe. No, that's not what John's saying. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. That's, uh, he's asking, do

BHI believe in eternal? Yeah. Well, see, I haven't heard. What has

Christ done? What does he do? You know, how are you say about that?

That's the thing. It's not about that. You see this, this is the difference for BHI.

It is about the blacks joining together. And now maybe when, you know, you go back to the episodes we did on BH, uh,

BLM. When that, when that whole thing started, he says that we're so disrespectful. Um, I don't think that I've insulted once I've pointed out what seems like a lie, but that's not an insult.

If it's actually true, you, you were trying to instruct us on a passage that in your voice message, you said you didn't know.

So either you did know and you were lying or you didn't know. And you learned one of those two.

But since you came right out of the gate with it, and we're trying to teach me on in the chats, I'm kind of thinking, you know, um, and Chris says, believe me, he's not one bit concerned about Andrew being insulted.

So, you know, the thing that you end up seeing is with a guy like this is he's, he's trying to distract.

This is what these guys will do. They, they will, if you see them on the street, they're going to have all these maps and different things that they're going to be throwing up there to try to show you how all these, you know, artifacts that supposedly prove that Israelites were, were black.

And it's, it's a revisionist history. When you say, Hey, how come it's only in BHI that believes this, like no other historian holds to this.

You look at all the history that's out there and no one argues the way they're arguing. And you look at this and say, well, why is that?

Yeah, exactly. Everyone else is wrong. Or could it be they're wrong now? Ackman's razor would say that the simplest answer is usually the right one.

The simplest answer is they're wrong. Not every other culture. That every other culture has been lying, you know?

Well, you know, I posted this for him cause I want him to see this because it's, you guys are disrespectful.

No, this is about the truth. And I, so I said, here's the truth. Acts four, 12, 10 to 12, be it known unto you and all the people of Israel.

Okay. He says he's an Israelite. He wants to say he's an Israelite, a

Hebrew Israelite. I don't know what the distinction is supposed to mean there, but okay.

You're a Hebrew Israelite that, uh, uh, by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, that is, that is a, a, a definite designation of the

Jesus that's being spoken of in scripture. That is the one of Nazareth, the

Jesus of Nazareth, who is a Jewish Israelite. He is the one whom ye crucified, whom

God raised from the dead. Talking about that specific one, even by him, does this man's stand before you whole.

This is the stone, which, which was said it not. If you go back to the old Testament, that's, that's

Daniel Isaiah. That's all through old Testament. You go back and talk about the stoner stones that the builders rejected.

That is the prophesied stone that was spoken of in the passage of scripture.

And what I want to say is, is neither is there salvation in any other, for there is no other name under heaven given among men whereby you must be saved.

And I'm just shocked. I'm, I'm shocked that he claims Christ. He claims to be an

Israelite, and yet he denies the one that was supposed to save his people. Well, let me, let me,

I want to wrap up with two things. One, because he just mentioned they're Native Americans. Let me give you, so people understand if they come across these guys, what their view is with the

Native Americans. Okay. So I want to do that. And then, you know, what we should do to, to wrap up would, would be to, you know, basically try to give the gospel to him since he's listening.

But let me start with the Native Americans. So where's the idea that, that we see? The, the argument is that the, when you had the captivity,

Babylonian captivity, or sorry, the Assyrian captivity, when the Assyrians came in, they end up arguing that when they came in, many of the

Jews, the 10, the 10 Northern tribes went to South America and then made their way up to North America.

So 10 of the tribes came there. Now, where in history, historically, where is the very first time we ever see this teaching taught?

The first time it was ever taught was within the

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter -day Saints. Okay. They taught that the 10 tribes came to America because the

Latter -day Saints believe that the American Indians were the Israelites. And that's why they,

Joseph Smith supposedly had this book. By the way, that same group that taught that the, that they came there and, you know, had built all this or had come over to the land and, and come there, the

Mayans and all, they, they make this case. This is the same group that said that the blacks were cursed people because of the color of their skin.

Now, I went, oh, I was there in, in that area. I remember going there to the

Mayan ruins. We had a guy who was Mayan. It was very interesting. There's two very interesting takeaways that I had,

Justin, from that. One, he was trying to, to teach us some Mayan words.

And it was very interesting because as he was speaking and, and he was making the point because so many

Latter -day Saints come there thinking that they're going to see where the Israelites came, you know,

Israel tribes came. And they're always thinking that the, they speak Hebrew.

So what he was doing was providing some of the language of the

Mayans. And my wife was picking up some of it. That's very interesting.

My wife speaks Chinese, not Hebrew. I wasn't understanding any of it.

Having once known Hebrew, she understood some of the words. So, so by language, and you can actually, this is a study that we, they do with linguistics.

You can actually see how people travel all around the world because of language, because of different dialects.

So what we have in South America is people who were speaking a Chinese dialect.

You know, there's something else about the Mayans that's very interesting. When my son and daughter were born,

I had to learn that there's this thing called a Mongolian spot. And this is something that Asians have.

On their bottom, they will have a huge black and blue mark for several weeks to years even.

And what you end up having there is you end up having a genetic thing with Asians.

Mayans have Mongolian spots. Hmm. So not only does their language show that they were from China, but their genetics show they're from China.

As far as I can remember, I don't think that Israel was ever in China. So I guess either the

Chinese are the Israelites. Hmm. That's different. Or both

BHI and LDS, Latter -day Saints, are both wrong. So you see, again, now, is he going to accept that?

No, no, no. He's trying to go, Joseph Ben -Yudah taught

Yiddish and Hebrew. Okay, so what? Like, see, this is the thing. They throw out arguments that are meaningless.

Absolutely meaningless. Okay. You know, you're going to end up seeing that this is what they end up doing.

Okay. Now, in the couple of minutes we have left, I want to wrap up. And, you know,

I want to speak directly to our friend since he's here and listening. Because this is what he wouldn't be able to do for us.

For to him, you and I are going to hell. We're destined there. There's nothing we could do to change that, even though scripture says otherwise.

In fact, a scripture that he brought up in the private chat, Galatians 3, 26 and following.

For ye are all children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

Doesn't say by being an Israelite, does it? No. For ye are all children of God by faith in Jesus Christ.

For many of you, as have been baptized into Christ, have put on Christ.

There is neither Jew nor Greek. There's neither free nor bond or free.

There's neither male nor female. For ye are all one in Christ. And if ye be

Christ's, then you are Abraham's seed. And heirs according to the promise. So, Jew or Greek.

In other words, Jew or not Jew. Whether you're Jewish or not Jewish. Whether you're an Israelite or not an

Israelite. You still can be a child of God according to the passage he quoted. You see?

So what does he got to do? He's got to play games with that as well. Let me tell you what it means to be in Christ.

This is what you have to understand, Darrell. You have to understand that you and I both are criminals in God's sight.

We broke his law. We lie. We steal. We've done things that God will judge us for all of eternity.

All liars will have their place in a lake of fire. We come into this world as enemies of God.

We are not children of God. We hate him. We're at enmity with him, it says in Romans.

And so, this is our state. But God granted that we would have faith.

Philippians 1 .29. So, God saves us. He brings us to repentance.

That we turn from trusting our good nature. Or trusting our good works. Or trusting our genealogy.

Because these are the things people trust in. Can you see this in John 1 .12

and 13? But as many as receive him, to them gave he power to become sons of God.

Even to them that believe on his name. Which were born.

How were they born? Not of blood. That's speaking of genealogy. So, it's not being an Israelite.

It's not being an Israelite will not save you. Nor the will of flesh. In other words, not your desire.

Just willing it is not enough. Nor the will of man. In other words, your good works.

These three things are not going to save you. What is? It says right there.

But of God. That's what saves. If you're going to trust that you're an

Israelite because of your black skin. Because of the melanin you have in your skin. That is not proof.

That you're an Israelite. And according to the scriptures we read, that's not saving you.

Being an Israelite won't save you. Claiming to be an Israelite will judge you.

By the passages you wanted to turn to. To people who claim to be Israel that are not

Israel. So, what you end up seeing. He's saying

I have to follow in love. 1 John 5, 3. 2 John 1, 6.

Well, 2 John doesn't have a 1. But John 14, 15. But you see those passages there that he quotes are not talking about salvation.

They're talking about sanctification. So, this is a thing you're always going to see with cultic groups. That they mix regeneration and salvation.

They don't understand things theologically very well. That's why that happens. And so, the thing for you,

Daryl, is you have to repent. Turn from trusting the color of your skin. Turn from trusting what you think is your fake lineage.

You're not an Israelite. And trusting in that for eternal life. It's going to damn you because you and I both are under God's judgment.

Because we break his sin. Sorry, break his law. And we sin. We need

Christ's forgiveness. We need Christ to... What he did on that cross.

That is the only thing we trust in. That is what saves.

So, you got to stop trusting these things. He's saying no, brother. It's not about color, bro.

This is your heaven. That's not what scripture says. Scripture doesn't say this is my heaven.

This is possibly, though, for you, your worst life now. Or your best life now.

Because if you don't repent, you're going to have a turning in a lake of fire. You're going to stand before Christ and he's going to say, why should

I let you into heaven? He's going to say, be gone, you worker of iniquity.

And you're going to be saying, Lord, haven't I done many things in your name? He's going to say, I never knew you. That's Matthew 7, 21 to 23.

Yes. This is what scripture says. See, this is the thing.

You want to argue over who is Israel. And you want to call me that I don't know the history.

A history that never existed before 1950s. People never taught this until the 1950s.

This is new. And this is something that we don't see everywhere. But everyone else has to be lying for you to be true.

Yeah. And for that reason, I plead with you. I plead with you. I know you think that I'm a devil and you think that I'm untrustworthy and all the other insults you said.

And all that is my friend is pride. That's pride convincing you you're so right.

So you could reject the message. So I want you to repent, turn from trusting yourself as a good person or your good works or thinking you're an

Israelite and trust Jesus Christ. Please do that today. Now, to those who are listening, let me give one last thing in closing.

How does somebody fall into this? That's a question people ask.

How do people fall into believing in B .H .I., believing in flat earth, believing in any of the other things that you know, any of these cults that you have?

Okay. How do they, how do we have people fall into this? Pride.

That's really what happens. Sometimes what it is, is people are start out, they are looking to defend or attack a belief system and they start buying into it.

The more they're hearing the arguments, they go, oh, this has a system that works. Everyone has a system that works because they just make it up as they go along if they have to.

Just like B .H .I. will do with Deuteronomy 28. They're going to say, well, ships, ships, ships, ships, ships, ships.

It's the ships. But what about Egypt? No, that's not Egypt. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.

That's not Egypt, that's slavery. Well, if the ships are ships, then Egypt is Egypt and the slaves are slaves and the no buyers are no buyers.

You can't have it both ways. But see, people will do this. They'll come up with a system that works so that they can explain away all these things.

That's why he says right now that Christianity is the cult. Yeah, and Jesus is so -called black.

I just read the verse. Jesus was whiter than white. Yep. Whiter than no man can white him. That's right.

So the reality is this. People get into it because they start learning something. They see that they can put some passages together.

They can throw some things together. And in throwing this and that, they get this system. And they feel that they know something someone else doesn't.

And that feeds the pride. And when they get into that pride, they feel good about it.

And they like slamming people. And that's why he wants to argue over Israelites and not the gospel.

What's more important? What's more important is that Daryl gets saved and knows

Christ and has eternal life. That's not me speaking it. That's the scriptures. And he says,

I'm proud. I'm not the one that uses insults when I can't answer things.

I'm not the one that can't explain things and can't be respectful. So that's the difference.

The pride is seen in your behavior, in your attitude, in the way that you have been speaking to me in chats.

The way that you end up in a condescending way referring to me on your voicemail that I'm a scholar.

Yeah, I have studied. That's true. But I don't say that because I've studied,

I have the right answer. I say that I have the right answers to the scriptures because I follow the rules of interpretation.

That's why. Because I follow the principles that we have for interpretation.

Yeah, exactly. The thing is, is that I showed you how you don't follow it.

And when I used an example, showing you the Mark 9 passage, what did you do? You called foul, rightly.

Why? Because it broke the principles of interpretation. The very same principles that you break when you try to say

Jesus is black. Yeah, exactly. It's the concept that I don't have to apply it to myself.

I can use it willy -nilly. I can apply the standard to you because you fail, but not with myself.

Now, it's interesting because he says rules if they are Holy Catholic Church. Well, the difference there is, and the irony there is that when you look at that, the

Catholic Church doesn't follow the rules. No. That's why they say they have to have the magisterium and their tradition interprets scripture because that's how they get around the natural reading of scripture.

You know, one thing I want to say before you close up is I posted on here, I put it on here on the link here for the

Israel tour 2021. Brother, I tell you what,

I'm very excited about it. If you want to start seeing what biblical context is applied to a place and location, get on the tour and go on the tour,

Israeltour2021 .com because I'll tell you, that's, you know, I mean,

I'm about to go on this trip. I'm excited about it. If everything works out, I'm going with you guys.

And I'm very excited about it. I'm ready, you know, willing to learn and to grow.

This would be a first time. Chris says that would be quite a trip.

It would be if Chris comes, right? Yeah, he's got to come. I mean, you know, Captain America, we can.

So I have to look, I don't know if I saw your name on there. Let me look at the list here and see. I'm not on the list yet.

You're not there yet. Well, you better get on it because there's been a, actually there has been enough activity that I was told that if everybody who registered, they're waiting,

I guess, for 10 more people to sign up. And if they all sign up, we only have four slots left. Oh, wow.

Yeah, so you're going to want to do that quickly. But yeah, that's going to be quite a tour.

I agree. IsraelTour2021 .com. You have

Justin Peters and the speakers at Striving Fraternity. You'll have myself, you'll have Dr. Silvestro.

If you come, Justin, we might have Bud. We're going to try to convince him. He had to drop out when we switched dates, but if you come,

I think we could twist an arm or two and get the whole team. When you go to Israel and then you read your scriptures, it will open up the scriptures.

You see the lands where this is, and it will help you to understand more of your scriptures.

So I do encourage you to go to IsraelTour2021 .com. Chris Honholz, I expect to see your name on there.

You can figure it out. You're looking at retirement. Just retire two years later. What is the big deal, man?

It's only another two years. Come on, man. Biden's going to take your retirement anyway.

It's all gone anyway. Just forget about that. Folks, if you want to, you can follow me on Parler.

That's the way you say it in French, but some people say parlor. Just search for me at Andrew Rappaport.

I am planning to drop Twitter altogether. I think I'm going to just boot it because I'm done with it.

And so check me out there. Go follow me there. I'm pretty much, I'm still on Facebook, but I'm, I don't know.

I don't like MeWe, but I've been on there more or trying to get on there more.

But if you want to leave a review, just go to lovethepodcast .com slash apologetics live.

The A in apologetics and the L in live are both capitalized. So it will be in the show notes.

It's also on the screen right there. Look at that. Oh, right down there. Down further than my finger can go.

Actually, I was going to say I'm on Parler as well. Oh, you're on Parler. Parler, Parler.

Yeah. I was actually trying to pull that up so I could. At least Phil can get it right. He's saying the Canadian version is

Par -ay. Is that what it is? Okay. He's saying the

Canadian version because it's a Par -ay. Well, there you go. Yeah, I'm on there.

I'm on there as well. And I tell you what, it's been fun to watch the politics on that.

It's been incredible to watch what's going on. I think this might be a very fitting way to end.

We'll let our friend here have the last word. I think after this whole show, two hours,

I think people will see this one quite clearly. Bro, I hope you will learn and get the proper context of the

Bible. He can't stay to context.

He's going to jump all over. I hope he comes in next week so you can see. He can't stay to context. He's going to jump from one to another to another.

And he's going to talk to me about context. He won't be able to stay in context. They never can. That is it for tonight.

Hope you guys enjoyed the show. Sorry that we couldn't figure out the technology so that he could come in and we could hear directly from him.

We did try to get as much as what he was typing in there to try to get a dialogue. Not as good,

I understand. Not exactly the way we wanted it to go. But it is the way that it went.

So check in next week, next Thursday, Apologetics Live. Again, folks, this is open to any discussion.

So if you want to come in, all you got to do is come in ask questions. We do appreciate that.

And there Justin put up his. He is on parlay at Justin K. Pierce. So if you want to ask questions, that's what this show is about.

We love to have the questions. So please come on in and ask them.

All right. And until next week, we'll see you then. Bye now.