Trip Report

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James White director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now. It's 602 nine seven three four six zero two or toll-free across the United States. It's one eight seven seven seven five three three three four one. And now with today's topic here is James White and he's back.

Returning to Phoenix and Planning Future Travel

Yes, indeed back here in Phoenix, Arizona. We did try. I looked at my schedule I tried to figure out when we could do a dividing line while I was in The European Union. Which I'm glad to be out of as far as that's a particular aspect of the political scene goes.

But it just it just didn't work. It just it just wasn't there. I couldn't couldn't make it happen. So here we are first time back on the 15th of February I've already gotten a quick ride in this morning to do another one this afternoon.

It's gonna be like 80 degrees this afternoon in the shade. So I'd probably be in around 90 in the Sun. Have to bathe in in sunscreen went out there today. But hey, you know, that's. That's that's great.

It's good to be back after two weeks of London Dublin and Glasgow weather and of the three of those Glasgow's definitely the the coolest and Dublin was the windiest my goodness. I was even unusual for them.

We had some incredible incredible things like that but anyways, it is It is good to be back. I want to give you a brief a brief Rundown of the ministry, especially since so many of you helped to make that happen and I'm gonna tell Micah right now I know he's listening.

You might not even want to bother taking down the the graphic might just want to alter it just a little bit and change it to help send James to England and To Geneva and Germany in April of 2012. Now, I know April 2012 seems like a long way his way, but we are already making plans.

And in fact those of you who listened to the debate on Saturday Know that I sort of threw the challenge out there. I said, you know, we keep trying to get these things arranged in a in an Islamic context in a mosque and Let's see if we can make that happen and everybody clapped and so afterwards I was told with with great assurance But not finality as yet but with great assurance that next year We would be looking at Arranging the debate to take place in the East London mosque, which is the largest mosque Currently in the London area it is a very large facility and I would love to see that happen and let's let's see if it let's see if it does and so Along with that a flight over to Geneva.

Primarily not just a sightsee though I will admit I will sightsee and Get my picture in front of the big statues and do all the stuff that you do when you're a Calvinist and you visit Geneva for the first time.

Including finding out how many how few Geneva's have a clue as to what went on there so long ago sadly, but also going to be looking at either Berlin or possibly Cologne it depends on what our contacts in Germany come up with but those of you in Germany we need you all to get together and cooperate together and work out something together so that we can Squeeze a few days in there and get the most out of it that we can.

I I sort of have I sort of have the shelf life while traveling of milk. Keep me cold and I've got about two weeks and After about two weeks stuff just starts breaking down. The back starts going and and I just I just don't believe that people.

Yes, I can see that I just don't believe that people. Sleep as well and rest as well. I I have it up. I I can see the phone system. So I I see that Joseph in Canada wishes to talk about Saturday's debate.

Well, we'll get there. We'll get there. I don't know what he wants to talk about about Saturday's debate, but I I do see that that's there. Yes, okay. Anyway, I just don't think you sleep as well. You're traveling.

So I've got about two weeks shelf life when it comes to travel. So I got to cram everything in there. So our thinking right now is to fly to London do a debate there then fly over to Geneva then to some type of ministry in in Germany.

If we can really nail this down, I will I will Make it a part of my writing for the next year and two months. To throw in some maybe listen to biblical texts in German. Just get my my German vocabulary back which which those with whom I have spoken in German say I speak German well.

But I just don't have anyone with whom to speak German and therefore the vocabulary just won't stick everybody knows. That's how it works. And so if I would just have I've got the accent. No one's ever complained about my German accent that can play about my Scottish accent all the time.

Even though I will have some positive report. That I moved closer to being accepted as a true Scotsman during my time in Glasgow. I really did so. And I came back with my two kilts. Which I which now fit because when I brought them over they were Scottish tents now, they are our kilts again.

They were it was just a small enough alteration they didn't have to do any cutting so they could fold everything in and that's why I didn't cost as much as it would have otherwise, but Anyhow set up stuff there in Germany and Though I I don't believe that I would be able to necessarily speak or preach in Totally in German or anything like that or debate in that context things like that I certainly would like to be able to be somewhat functional in that way.

So that's coming up April 2012 between now and then the next out of country journey will be in October. Heading down to Sydney with a brief run-up to Brisbane toward the end of that time and I'm gonna be very busy during that time.

I'm gonna be at more college again and things like that. So Racking up the frequent flyer miles in fact I already have more miles in my account now than I did before I burned the miles to get the upgrade to go over to London so It's yeah I Only spent but I just managed to get back yesterday in just under 13 hours of flying time.

So just a just a mere little 13 hour. That's a drive to Salt Lake. Yeah, but yeah, okay. Well, no, not the way you guys used to drive to Salt Lake. I Would drive there in that time period but you guys you were all working on the land speed record thing because you knew the salt flats are up there, so Yeah, so much for that.

You're gonna be hearing from that in the email before quotations of Romans 13 and stuff like that. I Can't say anything with certain people in the audience, but anyhow, so briefly. It was neat to be able to keep You can just keep in touch with people anymore.

Unbelievable Radio, the King James Debate, and the Trinitarian Bible Society

And so some of the things that we did while we were over there you all have already seen The I haven't gotten a single comment. However, so far from anybody on the unbelievable radio program that aired on Saturday.

I'm not sure I've forgotten a link to it. I apologize. I've seen some links to it on Twitter. I will try to remember to link to it. And and get that up on the blog so that you all can hear that. But that was an interesting conversation.

Let's just say I now know how to get to premiere very well. In fact was we were as Doug and I were coming back from ministry in Leicester Square. I hadn't look over and I I Saw one of the train stations going by I said, oh, we're close to premiere here.

I just walk over that bridge go over there around that corner and he's like, yeah You're starting to know your way around here as I asked scary, isn't it? But the conversation was Respectful but not overly challenging on the subject of the King James translation on the unbelievable radio program.

I think that Justin did everything he could in his power to get someone to present a little more Full Argumentation shall we say on the subject? Only controversy and the issues surrounding that but just no one wanted to take that up.

He had in fact gotten the folks from the Trinitarian Bible Society to agree to be on and then he told him who they're gonna Be on with and they promptly declined to be on the program. Which I find disappointing.

Because if they're going to take the position they take then there shouldn't be a problem in interacting with someone who clearly has demonstrated repeatedly many times undocumented form in audio video and written form.

The ability to engage these subjects in respectful and meaningful manner but It didn't it didn't happen and that's that's that's a bit of shame and I think the folks the Trinitarian Bible Society need to need to step up and to and to engage these subjects personally with folks that can can ask them meaningful questions and Unfortunately didn't happen that evening.

You all did get to see it's it's on YouTube not in the best format, but it's on YouTube the Debate with Pastor Jack Mormon on the subject of the King James only a controversy and you will note that It started off with my sitting there in utter shock at the activities of these spokesperson and moderator.

But oh well, but we we got focused at Again, it was it was a simple matter. I think of I chose I did not have a typed out opening statement. And I think when you're on television you you have to somehow try to connect with the audience and sitting there reading a Statement on television just doesn't work.

It's just You know, if you need to have an outline or something like that fine, but you've got to have some type of extemporaneous Capacity and so that's what I did once once Pastor Mormon presented his 20 minutes of written Presentation and mount impassable and la la la la the only thing I didn't do and when he when he talked about mount impassable as I Some of you may have noticed I was taking notes about what he was saying on my iPad and was tapping out the notes and then I would stop that for a moment and go over and see what the time was and go back to my notes and and So I was keeping up with him and when he made that mount impassable Argument, I Thought I should start off at some point in my opening.

I should say something along now. Let me be your guide Over mount impassable. I should I I thought of it before and I never did it once I got into it I just you know You start going with the flow and the next thought comes up and you want to go here and I remember do that I never did I should have because it would have would have helped but other than that I thought it was a very useful exchange.

Aside from the fact that it was just again painfully obvious that pastor Mormon would not answer my questions directly. And and some people one person even commented that he felt that the moderator was somewhat biased toward my side because he kept asking Pastor Mormon the same questions.

I was asking I said, I don't think that shows bias on his part I think it shows that he saw that the questions I was asking are the important questions and that pastor Mormon was not responding to them.

And so, you know a Good a good journalist doesn't let the politician off with just one attempt to get him to actually address the meaningful issue and So I think it's very useful and it did seem to get a lot of Twitter play and Facebook play and stuff like that.

So that one well very next morning. Oh goodness. We got home late from that when at home. I mean to the hotel. Next morning we saved about 20 pounds each Doug McMasters and I By taking the first flight first flight to Dublin.

Don't think we do that one again. Because we had to fly out of Gatwick, oh there are lots of airports and there's Heathrow there's Gatwick there Stansted Gatwick oh man It what once we got there we had to be dropped off and I felt like we were walking to Dublin.

I have net I Felt I never felt more like I was in a rat's maze Than when we were in this place people dragging Luggage everywhere up these inclines and down this and around this. I It I'm awful glad Doug knew where he was going because I did not have a clue where I was going.

We get to the Aer Lingus desk there's nobody there, but the people checking us in nobody as far as the eye can see and I'm sort of wondering why is this. Well because the flight started loading about 10 minutes before we got there.

So we drop off our bags and now we've got to get through security Before we can even get there and there we stand and there we stand and there we stand and at least you want to take Your shoes off in in England when you when you go through the thing but you do have to take your belt off and also so we finally get through and we're just we're huffing it and We finally get to gate 14.

And again, there's nobody there except one gate agent. We were the last ones on the plane. The door closed a minute after we got on that plane and they left 13 minutes before the posted time. It was supposed to go.

We barely made that flight. It was I've never I'm almost always the first one the plane not the last one on the plane but I was the last one on this plane it was quite interesting and So we got to Dublin and got to meet Joe Riley.

Joe has called the dividing line many times Joe from from Ireland and Joe was our ride. I want I really want to thank I really do need to thank folks. You know Doug McMaster's the pastor of Trinity Road Chapel, obviously he went with me to Dublin and Did the lion's share of the work in in having me over there?

But I should say that he he wanted me to thank a certain Barry Latin. Because he said that it was a joy to work with him and it was good to see I had someone helping with all them. There are so many details to do stuff like this.

It is just I've done them and I've done a lot of them a lot of stuff in the past and now Barry's taking care of all that stuff. And so he was very thankful so it was great to meet Joe and Mark and the folks at the out and reform Baptist Church there in Dublin Ireland, which is in the Republic of Ireland, which is not a part of the United Kingdom which needs to be just differentiated from the from Northern Ireland and Man, I'll tell you there are cultural things.

So You can tell someone's religion By what football team they vote for if you if you support the Celtics that tells you that tells Everybody if you're in if you're in Ireland or in Scotland. It tells you exactly what your theology is.

And if you support the Rangers that tells them what your theology is. It is really the the divisions run deep and especially in Ireland. Where to be a Protestant is to be a bad bad person. I mean, that's just all there is to it.

And so It was it was great to have the opportunity of preaching there we had a little bit of a interesting situation arise when I was booked to speak at a church where unfortunately the booker did not tell the bookies what I was gonna be speaking on and I didn't know that and So that led to a great deal of consternation and emails back and forth ended up speaking on the same subject.

Anyways The elders asked me to speak on Romans 9, even though it is not in any way shape or form a Reformed Church. I already knew that but it never crossed my mind That they didn't know that I was gonna be speaking on Romans 9.

They didn't they have first objected then didn't object and objected again. And then that didn't object and afterwards one of the elders said to me at tempest in a teapot. In other words, I simply opened the text I walked the text from beginning to end and it was very well received and It was a very good very good evening on that Sunday that Sunday evening so But while there, oh my While there to visit Trinity College in Dublin and To walk through the long hall.

Did you all see the picture of the long hall? I posted it does not even begin to do justice. I Came up a pair of stairs and I'm watching the stairs, you know. Cuz you know, I don't particularly like falling on my face and stairs.

So I come up the stairs I get to the top stair. I look up and there I am in the middle of that room and you'd I was in the Very middle of it. So I just sort of turn around and it goes both directions.

It looks like one of those mirror things. It's so long the long hall and It's two levels and as far as the eye can see is just books books and we're not talking modern books. We're talking old books. It smells of old Books it's just absolutely incredible and then to get to go to the manuscript reading room and to go in and you have to be very careful how you're handling these things, but to Hold codex monforte honest in my hands, which is codex 61.

It is the text that is theorized anyways was actually written specifically to force Erasmus to insert the Kami Ohanian the first John 5 7 and I didn't just look at first John 5 7. I did transcribe that and We've gotten information on how to get the digitized versions and stuff like that because I need to need to have that.

But I also check some other significant readings like at Luke 2 22 and Revelation 16 5 and so Doug McMaster's and Joe Riley and I had the opportunity of doing that Chris Cahi, which used to be Chris Coye.

But now he's in Ireland. So it's Chris Cahi Was there with us and he helped out a great deal with Things because he's a PhD student at Trinity and therefore he got all sorts of discounts and and get got us access to the to the the next day to the Chester Beatty library, which of course is where p45 p46 and p47 are Located and that was really the highlight of the trip.

We didn't get a chance to have a private viewing of them. The archivist was that it was sick or was that town one of the two and we tried we just couldn't get it worked out. We did speak with people and and we've we're gonna be able to get the you know, high-quality digitized versions.

It's gonna cost a little something. I might be putting something on ministry resource list or something. They're about 15. About 15 pounds plus a little bit per image and there are certain important texts.

I think it'd be it'd be very good to have high quality digital stuff from p46 on that. Especially since that's the earliest corpus of Pauline's writings Paul's writings we have. But we went into the museum where the a number of these are on permanent display and The first thing that struck me as soon as we walked in there is it's so dark.

It's so dark because they don't want to fade the manuscripts. So it's so dark. So we had to learn how to literally and I mentioned this in the blog article you got us you got to see this we had lit, you know, we're sitting here and the lights are from above and It's just so dark that my eyes are straining to make out anything.

So we started trying different angles and stuff and we realized what the lights are above. Then then they're gonna the they're gonna be brightest at it at the same angle. From the bottom that the lights are from the top.

And so we found out that if you'd got on your knees in front of the manuscript. And sort of pressed your face up against the glass like this. You could you can see it a whole lot better. Yes. Did anybody get a picture of that you guys?

They certainly don't. CCTV when the when the when the when the security guys showed up they saw it. Yeah. Well, there's certain people are gonna be talking about later in the program. They will only take that one portion of my sentence and create a blog out of that.

They're so blind and and bigoted and prejudiced. So but you can't worry about people like that. I mean if people are gonna be You know are going to cut your language up that way and completely ignore context.

There's there's nothing you can do about it so anyways, so we're on our knees and So we're looking at p45 and We look at p47 and we read through some of Revelation. That's the same. That's one of the two manuscripts that has the six one six number for the number of the beast.

Which I always use in my presentations and stuff but then we go over to p46 and I have I Like a little kid, I mean, I'm like a little kid. It's you remember p72 and in you you were there. It's a shame, you know haven't gotten to see these these others but you remember what I was like when I'm looking at p72.

I'm drooling on the thing and There's probably some drool left on the glass. They've applied to clean it up that night, but One of the first things I realize is that the very page That I Normally use to illustrate p46 Which is the end of Galatians of being a Philippians is on display the very thing that I have in fact in my keynote presentation I make pros philip a Zeus that to the Philippians I I make that come forward in using magic move and keynotes and and see here's here's and there it is the exact page.

Then I notice it next one. We had worked through some Roman sections and stuff and what I would do is I had the Accordance app on my iPod touch and the Accordance app has a transcription of all the papyri in it.

So I could bring these things up and once I would be able to locate because unfortunately I was a little disappointed with this. Whoever put the little cards in the display under each one obviously couldn't read what they were discussing and It didn't give you the specific biblical text so you'd recognize what you were looking at.

I guess they don't expect most people who staying there actually reading what they're looking at. I can understand that but that's certainly what I was doing. And so what I'd have to do is I'd have to try to in that dark light find a string where I could identify a unique word and Then I would go to my touch and I would do a search in that papyri.

You can actually search just in that papyri for that string and find out where it is by this or what's the surrounding text? And so we were able to that's how we were able to read from Revelation in the early papyri.

Then we got to p46 we were reading each one then we got to the last one shown the last fragment of p46 and I start looking at and I realize that we're looking at something in Philippians chapter 1 and So the immediate thought crossed my mind is Will the Carmen Christi be on this?

Might I see the earliest handwritten record of a of a text. I've worked on so much and Unfortunately, I immediately looked at it on the touch and it ends at Philippians 129. So in other words on the back of the thing that I'm looking at is the Carmen Christi on the backside that I cannot see.

Which was slightly frustrating but not really because I have an image of that and I know it's there. And it was still tremendously exciting to see but I would love to have you know Been able to see that and and read through that myself.

That's definitely one of the pages. I want to get to be able to have That that information but it was just it was just tremendously exciting to see that and of course there's all sorts of other really interesting things or the fragment of p66 and and But the doubt about the earliest pyre fragment we have of mark and to see all this stuff and just be that close to it and to be able to Read it and and be there with the brothers and talk about the history of these manuscripts and so like that was just really really Exciting and was a highlight of the time we then went and toured the we toured the Dublin Castle, I think the next day actually and Just had a great time.

The Irish people are wonderful people they're extremely warm and and welcoming and generous and It was it was a lot of fun and The wildest weirdest thing that happened was we're walking through the streets of Dublin on our way back to Trinity at one point.

I forget We were going that's right. There was a wonderful tweed shop an Irish Donegal tweed Across the street from Trinity College and I'd got a hat there the first day. We were there and I decided I was going to go ahead and bite the bullet and get a Donegal tweed sport jacket.

Which is what I wore in the debate on On Saturday night and which you're gonna be seeing a lot of in the future because I love it. But we're on our way back there. We're just walking along. It's the four of us Joe Chris Doug and myself and also behind me I hear this this female voice go sir, sir.

And so I stopped thinking Maybe one of my gloves fell out of my pocket and someone wanted to give it back to me, you know I don't know and there's this woman staying there and she has a notepad. Like a journalist and she says sir, could we take your picture?

Now I'm on the streets of Dublin it happened to be a real nice part of the day. It was still a little bit cold, but the Sun had come out which was pretty unusual. During while I was there we had some they one day they predicted wind gusts of a hundred and ten kilometers per hour.

That's moving. Okay, and it was it was blowing and but it's a really nice nice part of the day and I'm wondering Why would this person be wanting to take my picture on the street of Dublin? And so everybody had stopped the guys had come back and I'm sort of like, um Why it's just because you look cool.

And I'm just like, okay I'm staying here I'm wearing I'm wearing Black black trousers. Black well, we had just bought me because I needed one a three-quarter length coat which is what I wore when I was over there a Black sweater vest and the only thing that was colorful on me at all is I had a red shirt on and a black cashmere cap and Or was I wearing the cap I wore the day that I got the I think I was wearing the cap or they were anyway.

And I'm just looking at her like Okay, where's that? Where's the TV camera? Where's the where's the you know? What was the old can't yeah, where's the camera? Because no no, no, no, but just no you look cool.

We're with a certain such such a magazine and we're we're taking pictures of people on the streets of Dublin and and I'm like Okay, you know and so they take these pictures and then I started talking with the lady because her camera was oh My goodness her camera was Incredible.

It was like a five thousand dollar Professional camera, you know that you know the 90 megabyte raw Pictures and all this stuff and and it was it was really cool. But I from that point on well, she did ask me at one point said where did you get your shirt?

Yeah, and I was so strongly tempted to go tarjay. Because they wouldn't have no idea what that is over there, of course, but I shop at tarjay. Which is target for those who haven't figured out it. Yeah.

Anyway, it's just a plain old medium target dress shirt without a tie and I was gonna say tarjay, but That was funny so anyhow. We had a great time there and then Doug and I split up. Doug went home and I flew off to To Glasgow where I stayed with Jim and Chrissy handyside.

Jim is the pastor of the anti-san reform Baptist Church. Why. I've spoken many times before. Had a wonderful opportunity. He asked me to speak on the subject of modern-day Gnostics alive and well. And now that is not an easy subject in any way shape or form.

I had to work hard on that, but the the ministry was received real well I I went in the Glasgow and dropped off my kilts for resizing McKenzie's menswear down on Argyle Street and they got myself back and they were doing they had this really neat idea and you know This works in Europe.

It doesn't work as well Here, but they had this really neat idea on Tuesday mornings. They do coffee and tea for free for anybody who wants to come into the church and since they're right next to what would be for us the Department of Economic Security in their land and The Annie's land train station is literally within 10 yards of their roof.

There is constant foot traffic. So I've got to do is put a sign out and put a few people out there and they've got people coming in all time. Someone comes in for free coffee Biscuits tea and some of them the church sits down and it's a witnessing situation.

So I got back long before I expected to on the train. When you take Central Station just change at Partick for any zone. Anyways, and So I'm sitting there and all of a sudden we get a little rush and we run out of people.

So What do I do? I get to Try to understand Scottish accents that are really really thick because the Glaswegian accent isn't even Scottish. Okay, I mean, it's just wow. But I witnessed this one fellow for quite some time had really good conversation with him and ended up talking to a non-active Muslim Who was had a Scottish friend with him who is Glaswegian?

And I'm gonna tell you something if I hadn't had Jim Hanyside there to translate this fellow I wouldn't have had an earthly idea what he was saying that fellow. He was truly Glaswegian and it was just like I don't know.

It's just it's just um, it's just like he's got marbles and I have no earthly idea what he was saying. But Jim wouldn't tell me what he was saying. He sort of translated for him. So we had a great time and then they got the kilts done by Thursday so I went back in on my own got back out and got my kilts and and Brought them back with me.

So that was that was a great time there in in Glasgow and we flew back to London and On Friday night. I've already you've already seen the pictures the ministry in in Leicester Square Didn't get as much done as we had the year before they have Leicester Square cordoned off because they're doing work for the 2012 Olympics and Since you can't really walk across it now and stuff.

It makes a little bit more crowded and It's not quite as amenable. It'll be great during the 2012 Olympics. I'm sure but it's not quite as amenable to Conversations as it had been be before and I mentioned some of the conversations we had there on the on the blog.

The King James Only Debate and Live Streaming Challenges

Then Saturday night we had the debate and that's why we'll be getting to Joseph and Canada here in a moment we had the debate and I thought really well I was we. When I was first told that there had been a contact about live streaming it.

And I've been thinking about trying to do it through our facilities. I thought well, you know if they have a if they have a computer up in the balcony. We had Skype on it. We could Skype it over here and then you could put it out from here on the dividing line link or you know something along Along those lines.

I just didn't want to drag any extra thing. I could not have taken the streaming PC with me. It's just I barely Got everything home That I needed to because I I thought I was gonna be able to drop the kilts off and kilter Take up a lot of space and they're very very heavy.

And so I'd have room for anything that was bringing back. I ended up bringing back two pairs of shoes for others people other than myself one jacket one hat in two books and And and two mugs. I Collect Starbucks mugs for my daughter when I travel so she got a Dublin mug and a Scotland mug out of this particular trip.

And they take up room too and to get all that back into my bags was a bit of a challenge so I could not have brought that with me. But then when I found out that very same day they were talking about video Live-streaming this I'm like wow and you've never done this before and we're gonna try to make this work this is and Honestly, they didn't get started on working on it till about 515 and the debate started 630.

So they had an hour and 15 minutes. The only reason it ended up working at all is that Doug's one of Doug's sons had a 50-foot long cat 5 cable and they ran it out the window Down the sidewalk to the flat next door and plugged it into his high-speed Internet access that's the only way they got that to work was to hardwire it that far out the window and through the woods over to grandmother's house, so That was that was a little bit distracting at the beginning of of the debate but You know I it this is somewhat relevant.

I think to what were you talking about in a moment when we talk about the attacks upon yours truly that I came back to. As I did that debate I had to make certain decisions when you make when you do a debate you are sitting there at least this is what I do and I think I can say that I have a fair amount of experience in debate and Though there are certain people who would Be so incredibly biased as to say that I've never won a debate in my life unless I was debating someone who was stupid.

The reality is I I think most people even people who don't like me recognize that that's one thing that I do fairly well I can remain focused. I I don't easily get flustered and I've done it a lot of times, and I think about a hundred and eight times so far and I'm I'm watching the audience.

I'm looking at the audience as I'm speaking to them. I'm gauging their reactions a lot of this is subconscious. But it's quite purposeful. I'm Listening to my opponent. I'm gauging whether my opponent is connecting with the audience or not how the audience is responding to him and his presentation and One of the advantages that I've discovered is that when you appear to be speaking from your heart.

About what is passion passionate to you about what you're most interested in people will hear that if you're reading your statement. That's a little bit more difficult to do you can read well, but people see that you're reading well and So there were a number of times in this debate.

It was very Islamic intensive, and there was a great danger of completely losing the audience. Not because they're not intelligent enough to start to follow you. But because it may well be stuff that they're just not familiar enough with to be able to really engage with.

That's why I had a digital presentation I put the all the Quranic text up on the screen so people could see them and they could follow along and it wasn't just me reading it because once you get about two or three words into a citation people start turn tuning you out and.

So if people can't see it, it's it's difficult for them to follow along. The psalm went into a lot of you know Hadith sources and you know as a mock sure he says this and and Kurt to be says this and Ibn Kathir says that and and I had a bunch of that stuff sitting there on my screen and During the rebuttal period in the cross X.

I could have gone that direction. I specifically chose not to just as I specifically chose. Not to get into some things that Greg Stafford wanted to get into because I realized sometimes. And then and this depends on why your debate if you debate.

For the audience long term you're going to debate differently than if you're debating for your ego. Because your ego is going to tell you go toe-to-toe with this guy and show you're just as smart as he is.