August 18, 2022 Show with Michael O’Fallon on “The Castrated Church”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27, verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have a view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions.

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And now, here's your host, Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 18th day of August 2022.

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And although I have had my guest today on the program in the past for brief interviews while conducting on -site interviews at the

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G3 conference where I man an exhibitor's booth for Iron Sharpens Iron Radio every year and will also be doing so this

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September in Washington, D .C., for their regional conference, I have never had today's guest on for a full two -hour program, although I've been begging him to be on for years, and he finally has accepted my invitation.

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I'm speaking of none other than Michael O 'Fallon, who is founder of Sovereign Nations, and we're discussing the controversial theme, the castrated church and a world of virile enemies of Christ.

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How did those Paul called more than conquerors become less than spiritual eunuchs?

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We're also going to be talking about an upcoming conference that is going to be held in Manhattan where Michael Fallon will be on the speaking roster, and it's actually next week in Manhattan, and I'm hoping that as many of you as possible will attend this conference.

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I am going to do everything I can to be there myself. It's called Faithful, and it will be held at Providence Baptist Church in New York City, but it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Michael O 'Fallon.

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Good to be with you, Chris. Tell our listeners about Sovereign Nations. Well, do you want the long story or the short story?

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Whatever you're comfortable giving. We do have a two -hour show, so you could give the long story. I have a feeling we're going to be talking about a lot of things, but basically

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Sovereign Nations was started, you know, Chris and I have known each other for a long time, and really one of the things that started a previous company that I had was the fact that I wanted to be able to put on apologetics conferences, debates, and so forth.

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So I started a travel and event company, did conferences at seas, luxury tours, but as well conventions, and with the purposes of using some of our profits to put on debates and so forth.

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So my first interaction with Chris Arntzen was back in the late 90s, and we had started to put some things together.

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We had, I think, that have been public. We've done other debates that were not public, but private nature and so forth, but that's really what led up to me having a lot of clients to help them.

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A lot of 501c3 larger ministries, organizations, political organizations, as well as corporations started reaching out to us to help them to do their events, but also to help to strategize with them, to give them good advice, and to consult and so forth, if they tried to see growth, or if they wanted to reach untapped people to come alongside.

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Well, that experience for about 10, 12, 15 years led me into positions where I was all of a sudden in the room of a lot of meetings, and then as well because of,

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I guess, my knowledge that I had, whether it be church history, understanding philosophy, understanding the way the world works, all of a sudden

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I was actually in these meetings, and those meetings, this would be back not just within faith, although that was a big part of it, where these things were being talked about in Christianity, but I heard a lot of these things with geopolitics and at NGO type of meetings.

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They were getting together and having discussions about laying out the plans to really kind of create a technotronic future, if you will, for us, more or less a technocracy.

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And then as well, I started to hear this not only there, but also with corporate leaders and so forth.

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I'm on several larger corporate boards, and I was the guy going, you know, this doesn't sound like something we should be doing.

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By the way, I just heard this with a bunch of Chinese leaders over here. I heard the same thing. Why are we talking about this with a hotel or travel group now?

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And as well, I heard these things in the Christian faith with other leadership groups and primarily from folks like Ed Stetzer and so forth as they began to talk about a change that none of us could stop.

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There was nothing that we could do about it. We got on board. You were going to be able to have the carrot, if you will.

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If you're not on board, things aren't going to work out for you. You're going to get the stick. And this is going back 12, 15 years ago when

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I first heard about these things. And as I basically became convinced over a three-, four -year period from around 2009 to 2012 that they were actually serious, they were going to do this,

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I broke ties with most of those clients. I still tried to convince some of them that this was a bad idea.

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But come around 2016 into 2017, I could see that there was nobody else that was going to do anything about it.

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And that would be that they were going to first start basically with an ideological attack on the United States and on Western civilization as a whole, not just within the

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Christian church, but within every single, if you will, channel of affinity.

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So whether it be through Catholicism, whether it be through moderate Islam, whether it be through even

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Zen Buddhism, which is really the case, by the way, Mormonism and so forth adopted these things.

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You really had this plan to basically ideologically change or transform really the nature of what the main emphasis of each church or faith would be.

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And as well this would happen in our performing arts, this would be happening in education, where all the emphasis would be going towards things like critical race theory and intersectionality, these ideas that we needed to have a change to our system.

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Everything must be changed, and we must have a reset, if you will, of our system.

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One of the books that made quite an impression upon me was one after a kind of a cocktail party kind of soiree in New York City, which was written by...

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There was a couple of these actually, different events. One book that was written was called The Great Reset by Richard Florida.

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This is going back to 2009 that this was being discussed, and Richard was, you know, he was lecturing and so forth and shaking hands.

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So I read it with anticipation and it pretty much explained some of the groundwork for things that needed to be, quote, reset in their opinion.

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And as well, another man would be Sergei Popovich. Sergei Popovich is really the one that came up with the idea of Udmor or the canvas nonviolent color revolution model.

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So with his past, you know, let's just say that this past knowledge that I had going forward,

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I was basically running around from about 2013 to 2016, 2017, trying to convince people that this was going to be happening.

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So in many ways, some folks looked at me like I was Chicken Little. Some people kind of had a skeptical like, okay,

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Mike, well, you probably should get back on that medication. People tell me that all the time.

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Well, we have a mutual friend, James White and Rich Pierce. Yes. And I went back to them many years ago before all of this really blossomed with our reset, if you will, in 2020, explaining what would happen, how it would happen, what the purposes are.

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And, you know, there was a lot of skepticism there. But I think me talking to him, especially back then, and him knowing actually who

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I was spending time with from 2009 to 2012, basically convinced him that something was going to be happening eventually.

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So when everything kind of started to unfold in 2020, I think Jim had a much better track of understanding where this was all going.

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Oh, yeah. He was blown away about the accuracy of your predictions and began to put a lot higher trust in some of these spectacular things you were talking about.

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Well, you know, but the thing is, and here's the thing, Chris, nothing that I was saying was really just a – you could use the word prediction.

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People have said, oh, you have a prophetic voice. It's like, no, I was in the room. I read the material. I was there as they were talking about these things.

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They were going through PowerPoint presentations and so forth. Yes, anybody who knows you knows you're a cessationist.

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What's that? I said everybody who knows you well knows you're a cessationist. Well, yeah, sort of.

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I guess I'm more on the James White side of that sort of thing. But, yeah, so I'm basically trying to convince everybody that this is going to be happening.

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But as well, I even had clients that I knew to some extent were involved with this or that they were being wooed into it.

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So I was very careful with a lot of them. I wouldn't say too much, but I would be trying to convince them that this is not a good thing to do, kind of letting them know that I know what was going on, et cetera.

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But when 2016, 2017 came and no one was willing to do anything about it, I started

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Sovereign Nations. And Sovereign Nations was not meant to be the

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Christian ministry to fight against critical race theory and intersectionality. It was meant to be an organization that helped everyone to fight against what would be happening with the end goal, of course, being that they wanted to end the republic.

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And so if you're thinking that you want to get away from the nation -state concept or that form of governance, if you're thinking that you want to get away from people being able to be really those that are, you know, in the

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United States, that we are sovereign over our process, you know, that we are the ones that make the decisions and so forth through our votes, by our representation, in line with the

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Constitution, they wanted to wipe all of that out, both here in Europe and so forth.

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And so the nation -state becomes more of a state. And so if you're wanting to fracture the entire nation, if you want to fracture

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Western civilization, what you want to do is you want to make sure that you create a counter -hegemony within what

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Gramsci would refer to as a hegemony, which would be the cultural glue that holds everything together, whether that be by faith, whether that be through traditions, whether that be through things that people do, you want to shatter that.

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You want to break it into a million pieces. And after you've broken it into a million pieces, then you mold it back into the shape that you want it to be.

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And that was the process that we were actually undergoing. And as I saw in seminaries, in parachurch ministries, in denominations, where you had all of these organizations, this is going back to 2014, were all incorporating critical race theory, intersectionality, and as well they were starting to move towards what you could basically call queer

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Marxism as well, which is why you had Revoice and Living Out, why even organizations like Tim Keller, the

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Gospel Coalition, and as well, I hate to say this, but even Night Marx started moving slightly in some of those directions back then.

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There's no denying this, by the way, most of this stuff has been scrubbed. In 2015, Dr. Moller, Al Moller, gets up and basically makes the comment that homosexuals were born that way, which is a great departure from what we have always taught within the

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Christian faith. So you're creating a counter -hegemonic kind of a new way of looking at things, almost the development of a new catechism without it actually being put in stone yet, of what things we are now going to start to believe and start to teach and start to emphasize and so forth.

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And no one was willing to fight against this. I know that there was an attack on Bode Bauckham in 2015 at the

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Time to Speak conference where Sabiniana Weaveley was there, Ed Stetzer, and Ed Stetzer is the

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Pied Piper of wokeism, by the way, and several others, Matt Chandler was there, and it was basically a four -on -one on Bode.

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How did that manifest itself? I mean, were they on the stage together, or how was that happening?

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Yeah, they were at a stage together, and basically you had Bode start to push back on these concepts.

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And he was talking about, well, look, what you don't want to do now is to create a counter -hegemony to try to break up what we believe in the church.

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And he started to, of course, Ed Stetzer went to W .E .B. Du Bois and so forth, and some of his ideas and concepts, and Bode, for the most part, tracked right with him and tried to shut all that down.

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And they were having none of that. So that was basically the end of a lot of the speaking tours that Bode Bauckham was doing at the time in the

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United States. And then maybe just recently after that, maybe six months or so to a little less than a year,

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James White was attacked. Our friend James was attacked by, oh,

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I can't remember all the names, but basically the guys who were associated with the witness, Jim Artisby, and then, of course,

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Russell Moore, folks like that all went after James White. And I'm trying to furiously text him, like, this is what's going on, this is what

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I've been talking to you about, and so forth. He had Bode on his program. Like, this is much bigger than just being accused of racism when you said nothing was racist.

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It's much larger than that. So I had to form sovereign nations as basically trying to create the necessary bulwark against all of this that would be happening.

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My first conference people couldn't make heads or tails with because I invited, yes, James White. And then

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I also invited folks like Ambassador Alan Keyes, who I'd been talking about this stuff for 12 years.

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Yeah, I was at one of his fundraisers when he was running for president with the

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Reform Party. Yeah, I mean, Alan was keenly aware of what was going on around him.

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And, you know, just like me, he's like trying to run around telling people you can't allow, like when he ran against Barack Obama for the

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Illinois state senate seat, you know, he was trying to explain to people how serious this situation actually is.

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This is Marxism that's coming in. By the way, he had the best by far comment during the

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Republican primaries when he was running against George W. Bush when,

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I don't know if you remember, that televised primary where the question was asked of all of the candidates, who is your favorite philosopher?

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And George W. Bush, feeling very bold in his

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Christian witness, said, well, Jesus Christ is my favorite philosopher. And there was some applause,

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I think. And then Alan Keyes said to him, Mr. Bush, Jesus Christ is

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God. He is not a philosopher. So, I mean, that's

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Alan. Alan understands things. And, yes, he is Roman Catholic. He's also been one of my best friends for the past 12, 15 years.

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Alan and I have been through a lot together, and he's been someone that I could talk to about things that were happening with international politics as well as national politics, and to be able to just really try to work through things to make sure that I'm not getting off on something.

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Is he still a state of vacantist? I think he's there. It's kind of hard to worship at the

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Catholic Church when you've got a Marxist pope, which is a whole other part of this, actually.

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Because I was just saying that because I'm praying that his obvious questioning of the status quo of Rome may,

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God willing, lead him to embracing biblical truth. Well, I think he's kind of like where,

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I think, Michael J. Matt is, folks like that with Remnant. I think that's kind of where he is right now.

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But, you know, the great thing about Alan is that we've had long drawn -out, passionate debates, whether it be about the perpetual virginity of Mary or about the

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Church's authority, about the Bible as sole authority, the claims of the papacy.

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We've been round and round and round about a lot of those things, and consistently, over the years.

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And we are friends. And, you know, I hadn't convinced him yet.

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He hasn't convinced me, but I do love him. I would say that basically, you know, that relationship, along with several others that I do know, helped me to be able to Let me turn that off.

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Sorry, I've got a phone call coming in. But helped me to be able to really kind of center myself and understand that this was something that I wanted

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Alan to speak to from a national viewpoint, like what actually was happening here in this nation.

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This was in 2017. And as well, I had a very, pretty much an unknown guy come in that I flew in.

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His name was Dr. Jordan B. Peterson. And at the time, nobody really knew who that guy was.

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A few people did. You know, I know Summer White, Summer Yeager now, knew who he was.

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But I had him come in to do a lecture called The Marxist Lie of White Privilege.

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Now, I had this conference on October 31, 2017.

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And I did that on purpose. Because what we were looking at was the need for, really, another

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Reformation. We needed a Reformation within the Church, obviously. But we also needed a

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Reformational concept or idea to happen with all society. Because what we were heading into was radical subjectivism in everything.

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So it's not just a question of distorting the truth of Scripture and distorting the Christian faith.

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It's also about distorting math. You have actual scholarly articles coming out of Ivy League schools trying to prove that 2 plus 2 can equal 5.

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This sort of thing was going to be happening in everything, all the time, everywhere. So there had to be an understanding of what this really was.

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And if you didn't have the opportunity to be able to really take the time to see what was going on or listen to the literally hours and hours of lectures and articles that we have on our site just trying to give everybody, basically, a taste to help you understand that we are under attack.

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And we are under attack from every angle in everything. And once you understand that, really, our adversary when they've taken over everything from mainstream media, social media, to the arts and entertainment, to education, to healthcare.

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We're moving into the concept of health equity now. But they have taken over everything. And the way that they look at the church,

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I've explained this many times in different interviews, is the way that they look at the church is simply as another media outlet.

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That you have churches that meet anywhere from 25 people to 10 ,000 people, sometimes, on Sundays and then as well on Wednesday nights where people come and take notes and they're involved in the life of the church.

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But they look at them as a way to reach people, to sell them on the idea that we need to transition out of this national concept that we're in right now.

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And this is why you have this emphasis on Christian nationalism. Now, go ahead.

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You can finish your thought. But whenever somebody accuses you of being a nationalist or a

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Christian nationalist, whenever anybody makes that accusation to you, just right away say, oh, okay, so you're for supranationalism.

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Is that what you're for? You're not for individual sovereign nation states. You are for a gigantic, global, uncontrolled, technocratic society where no one has a say in regards to what's happening about their governance.

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That's what you're for. So don't bring that to me to try to criticize me because I really want to uphold the

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Constitution. I really want to make sure that we have a nation that we can hand down to the next generation, that they as well can value and that they can make better.

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No, there has to be a complete re -education of what's really happening in this nation. And I'm saying that from perspective.

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I'm not a theonomist. I wouldn't identify myself as a Christian nationalist either.

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I believe in nationism. I understand that there is a plurality of things that people believe and so forth in this nation, and they need to have the right and the conscience to believe what they want for the reasons that they say are convincing to them, which is why the

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Christian church should have been taking advantage of that over the past 50 years.

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And really what we've done is we've done the opposite of that. So Chris Arnsett and Michael Fallon, the way that we really start to get to know each other is because we were holding and moderating debates between Christians and Catholics and Christians and Muslims and Christians and atheists because we thought it was good that we sat down and talked about what is true, what is not true, what's your evidence for that.

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Those are the kinds of questions that you can't ask anymore, and yet we were completely involved in it at the time.

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Well, now you fast forward 25 years later, you just simply don't have that anymore in our society.

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You don't have real true debate. All you have is this descent into ad hominem. So there has to be a fight.

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There has to be recovery of truth, of objective truth. In the Christian faith there needs to be recovery of what is true and why is it true exegetically.

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Because instead what you have infused right now is this concept of really standpoint hermeneutics, which is similar to standpoint epistemology, is that now it's your standpoint that gives you your truth in terms of what you read into Scripture.

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It's the same thing that they're doing with mathematics, that they're doing with any of the sciences that you have right now.

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That's how they're approaching it. They're approaching the Christian faith the same way. Was that short enough?

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Yes, I believe the first time, I could be wrong, I think the first time I met you was when you were in the audience at the

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Trinity debate that James White had with Oneness Pentecostal Robert Sabin in Patchogue, Long Island.

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Was that correct or no? The first time that I met you personally was,

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I believe, in the year 2000, 2001, when he had the debate with the priest on Purgatory.

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Oh, wow, Peter Stravinskis. That is probably the most infamous of all the debates.

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And what I was tasked with when we were there was I was going to be the one that was working the, it was like a four -channel

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Mackie, you know, mixer, amplifier, and so forth to try to make sure that their mics were set proper and so forth.

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So I got there ahead of time and worked the mics there for that debate. Yeah, that's where the notorious question from an evangelical in the audience to Peter Stravinskis when he tongue -in -cheek said,

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I heard that you can buy your way out of Purgatory, so my question is who do

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I make the check out to and how much do I make it for? And there was laughter, of course.

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And Stravinskis said, which I think even shocked Catholics in the room, he said, hey, pay now or pay later.

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Yep. And then when James White put that excerpt of the debate in full context,

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I think there was at least five minutes or more content before he said that and after,

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Stravinskis still threatened to sue James if he continued to publicize that clip claiming it was being taken out of context, and it clearly wasn't.

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Right. And it got nowhere. James said, I'm not taking it down, so do what you need to do, and nothing ever happened with it.

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Yeah. Well, I mean, if you remember, around that time there was another threat of a lawsuit from James's previous debate that he had just done.

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Oh, what's his name? The Church of Christ pastor.

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Oh, when he was debating in Bayside Queens? Yes, yes, yes, yes.

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I think his last name was Parker with a P. Yeah. So, I mean, that was common back then.

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But, I mean, look, we were having discussions and debates and arguments and so forth, and, well, you know,

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I don't believe what you're saying is true, and here's why I don't believe it. That's the kind of thing that, you know, basically you had a societal scientific method going on, right?

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Because this wasn't just the case with us in Christianity. And in faith it was a question of everything.

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We're debating and talking about everything. It's kind of what you did, right? Well, now there's this new morality that's been formed around the thing that is basically called, you know, whatever the truth is that the experts say they are.

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So it's a technocratic approach to things, that you must listen to the experts.

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They are the ones that are right. And as you can see, what the technocratic experts say over the years, or even just over the past year, wildly varies from one thing to another.

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What they claim to be true changes within four to five months because it's not about what's true and to reach the goal of fixing something or to reach the goal of ending a problem.

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The goal in the end is operational success and whatever actually defines that.

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And normally that means that crises are going to be made. And then those crises then result in whatever it is operationally that those that started the crisis or brought attention to it wanted to have.

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So that's, if you're talking about kind of like an alchemical process, if you will, of where we go with things, that's been happening in everything.

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So, I mean, it's even what happens within the church. You know, within the church we had this scandal of racism that we were all told that we were racist.

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You had, you know, even at John Piper's church and at J .D. Greer's church, you had unconscious bias training midweek and so forth.

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That's been scrubbed from their websites now, but it was there. You had all of this emphasis on, really, it was just trying to infuse the faith with critical race theory from Crewe, which was

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Campus Crusade for Christ. And basically what you had was, we were talking about hegemony before with Antonio Gramsci, is you're creating a counter -hegemony.

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You're having a cultural revolution within the church. That's, in essence, what you were doing.

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And sadly, Chris, this is the thing that I just don't understand. Look, you and I fought for truth.

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My gosh, that was like what we did 20, 25 years ago. We thought that everybody that was in Reformed Evangelicalism, that was their main intent.

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Well, now we just went through this, where there was basically the attempt to try to bring in a Neo -Marxist revolution into the church, into the

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Reformed Evangelical church. We've kind of been able to stop it, or at least bring light to it, and so forth.

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So those guys, a lot of these guys that pushed this nonsense, Tim Keller, Ligon Duncan, even

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Dr. Al Mohler, and all the professors that he had at Southern Seminary, Danny Akin, all these folks that pushed this nonsense, they went from what we call being in the

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Bailey, and they went back into the Mott. So if you can remember what those medieval fortresses were back in the

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Middle Ages, and so forth, you would have the Bailey, which would be kind of the open area of the town, and so forth, that was more easily accessible.

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Maybe you did have a small wall around it, but it wasn't expensive. But that's where you would do your damage. You could really move there.

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But the Mott, of course, is the castle Mott, and so forth. You run back up into the Mott, where the

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Bailey is penetrated by the opposing forces, where you can shoot down arrows, so oil or whatever the case may be.

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In fact, let's pick up right after the distinction between Bailey and Mott, because we have to go to our first break right now.

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And if anybody has a question for Michael Fallon, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com,

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chrisarnsen at gmail .com. Give us your first name at least, city and state, and country of residence. Don't go away.

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We'll be right back after these messages. . .

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. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . run out of seats at g3men .org.

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That's g3men .org. Stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron radio exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnzen while you're there.

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today and mention that you heard about them from Chris Arnzen of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio. We are now back with our discussion with Mike O 'Fallon.

42:35

And right before the break, you were comparing and contrasting the

42:40

Bailey and the Mott when it comes to a castle and you were applying it to situations in our day today.

42:47

If you could pick up where you left off. Sure, Chris. Well, you know, basically, when I was in really leading tours in the

42:57

United Kingdom, you would come across the Mott's that are still there.

43:02

Most of the Bailey's are have other things on them now. You know, just because of the fact that we're in a modern society, but we would talk about the

43:10

Mott and Bailey's going back from 2000. And we would explain, you were in the

43:18

Bailey, you could move forward, you could advance, etc. You could expand the ground. But when an opposing enemy came, you would retreat up into the

43:27

Mott and then fire down from there defensively. Well, in many ways, that is a form of argumentation and debate.

43:35

And so what will happen is as soon as the adversary and for us, that we're speaking the truth about what was going on with the pushing in of the concept into the church.

43:48

The leaders that were really strongly in their Bailey for a while, retreated back into their

43:54

Mott. And usually what you could do in terms of identifying it is they would use a phrase like, well, it's not critical race theory, it's just, you could always, you would always hear that preface was with, it's just, and they would say, it's just that we care about making sure we have a diverse church.

44:14

Or it's just that we care about race relation. Like, it's just that we, you know, so that's what the transitionary period of them going into the

44:23

Mott, that eventually they would come out with a statement against all the things that they had been doing for the past eight to 10 years and pushing

44:31

CRT and critical theory in the churches. And then wiping, wiping their website clean of any proof that they were doing this nonsense, which if you could go back now and hear what they said, some of it, a few things are still captured, like in a book

44:50

Preacher Clips and other things that we've done, that you will see that, my gosh, all of them were involved with this.

44:57

When I say all of them, I think primarily members of the Gospel Coalition, members of the Southern Baptist Convention, members of the

45:03

Presbyterian Church in America. So you would have folks like Ligon Duncan, basically reshape

45:10

Reformed Theological Seminary to have their kingdom diversity program, to have these different new offices created within RTS to address the problems with systemic racism, etc.

45:23

He hired Carl Ellis, he would have Jamar Tisby there as well. And this was the big push happening at Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, especially with Dr.

45:33

Jarvis Williams, with Matt Hall. This is what happened, of course, at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary as well.

45:39

It happened at Dallas Theological Seminary of all places, with them even doing basically this entire program, picking it up a notch.

45:50

And that's where Woke Church was written by Eric Mason. Of course, the forward to Woke Church was written by Ligon Duncan.

45:58

And so now all of a sudden, you have these men who are in their mott that without repenting, without coming out and saying, we were wrong, we were wrong to do this, they just get a little bit further down the road, change their tune, and then are now trying to ingratiate themselves back into the church again.

46:15

And as well, there are organizations that are helping these men who pushed Marxism into the church.

46:24

They're allowing these men to come back in. So here's the problem. And this is,

46:29

I think, the, you know, overall, what we were supposed to be talking about today. If the church allows these men to come back in and preach from these pulpits without repentance, and honestly, without them stepping down, because what they did, they did purposely.

46:47

And even the deception now is purposeful. Then basically, what you're doing is you're saying that the church no longer has the ability to discipline anyone, and doesn't even have the right to speak against anyone if they're not going to take care of business in their own house.

47:06

So if, let's say the pastor decides to get up and preach a sermon in his boxer shorts, or he decides to say, okay, folks, let's please turn to the

47:17

Book of Wisdom, whatever it may be, to apocryphal literature, you have no right at this point to discipline him, because you won't discipline your own.

47:28

You're just going to pretend like everything's fine, and you're going to move on. That can't happen.

47:34

If we are to retain church authority, church discipline, and be able to say that, yes, we are here as watchmen on the wall, because let's face it,

47:44

Chris, you and I were watchmen on the wall 20, 25 years ago, trying to deal with error, because a lot of times the church wouldn't.

47:52

All this stuff came into the churches, came into the seminaries, and none of the institutions did anything about it, not even the conservative ones, and sadly, many of them were participating in it.

48:06

So what then do we do? Do we hand back the keys and say, okay, well, we trust you now, now that you've changed your story?

48:13

No. We need to know what happened and why it happened. Unfortunately, I know why it happened. I know what happened, and I know what it was going to lead to.

48:22

I think they've kicked the can down the road a bit, but they're right now in the Mott, and they're ready to jump back into the bailing, so we have to be cautious of this.

48:30

Yeah, this is so sad, because only 10 years ago, I have had some of those men that were, that are today leaders in this whole woke movement that has infiltrated theologically conservative congregations and denominations.

48:53

I've had some of these men. I've had Thibiti Anyibwile on my show several times.

48:58

I've had Anthony Bradley on my show, and they were saying polar opposite things only a decade ago.

49:05

Anthony Bradley, even when I asked him, what do you think of those who are trying to claim that black people cannot be guilty of the sin of racism?

49:20

Anthony Bradley actually raised his voice, and he said, they're morons, and then you have such a far drift back into the very thing that they were critiquing and mocking.

49:33

It makes no sense. Well, and I think you've seen some of those folks, though.

49:39

Yes, then they went far. Basically, they all sounded like Ibram X. Kendi for a while. By the way,

49:45

Jarvis Williams, well, not Jarvis Williams, I'm sorry, Jamar Tisby. Jamar Tisby, who was lauded by Ligon Duncan and other leaders within the

49:56

Gospel Coalition and Reformed Theological Seminary, well, who does he work for now? He works for Ibram X.

50:03

Kendi. Wow. So he's gone from working with groups like Reformed Theological Seminary, the

50:09

Gospel Coalition, and the Witness and all, to now working for the guy who's actually, what he's promoting right now, is that you need to be racist to those that were the former, quote, oppressors.

50:23

So you need to make sure that you are discriminatory towards those that had privileges in the past.

50:31

They're actually... Amazing. And so the Church has to start to ask itself the important questions.

50:38

Why did this happen? Who was involved with it? And what do we do about it?

50:44

And if the what do we do about it does not match what you would tell everyone else to do about it, the

50:50

Church can't discipline anyone in the future if they're not willing to deal with this, and if they're not willing to deal with it in a biblical pattern.

50:59

And that is a perfect point for us to now enter into our midway break. Please be patient with us, folks, because the midway break is always the longer break in the show, because Grace Life Radio, 90 .1

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FM in Lake City, Florida, requires of us a longer break in the middle of the show, because the FCC requires of them to localize all of their programming geographically to Lake City, Florida.

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And while they do that, we simultaneously air our globally heard commercials. So please use this time wisely.

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Write down as much of the contact information as you possibly can for as many of our advertisers as you can, so that you can respond to our advertisers.

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And when you cannot purchase their products, you cannot use their services, when you cannot support their parachurch organizations or visit their churches, please do one thing that you can do if you really love the show.

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Just respond to our advertisers and say thank you for sponsoring Iron Trip and Zion Radio.

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That should go a long way to keep our advertisers happy and hopefully further compel them to redo their advertising contracts, because remember folks, we absolutely positively depend upon the dollars that come in from our advertisers to exist.

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These advertisements are essential, so please respond to them at least by saying thank you, if indeed you love the show and are grateful that there are those who have been blessed financially by God, who share some of that money with us.

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Also send in your questions to Michael O 'Fallon, to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com,

52:36

and as always give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence. Don't go away, we'll be right back with Michael O 'Fallon and the castrated church in a world of virile enemies of Christ.

52:59

Attention all men in ministry leadership, you're all invited to my friend Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon, Thursday, September 22nd, 11am to 2pm at Church of the

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It's such a blessing to hear from Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listeners from all over the world.

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Dr. Joe Moorcraft. I'm Joe Riley, a faithful Iron Sharpens Iron Radio listener here in Italy, in County Kildare, Ireland.

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Going back to 2005, one of my very favorite guests on Iron Sharpens Iron is

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Before I return to Michael O 'Fallon, we have just a couple of more announcements to make.

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Folks, if you really love this show and you don't want it to disappear, I'm urging you please go to IronSharpensIronRadio .com.

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chrisarnson at gmail .com, but I need a church in the subject line. By the way,

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In addition to the event Faithful in New York City being held next week, the 25th, 26th, and 27th of August, there's something occurring this

01:09:54

Saturday in Larksville, Pennsylvania, featuring mutual friends of both myself and Mike O 'Fallon.

01:10:06

This is a conference that's being held in Larksville, Pennsylvania at High Point Baptist Church, pastored by Matt Tarr and Darrell Bernard Harrison and Virgil Walker are going to be speaking on critical race theory and a lot of the things that Michael Fallon is addressing today.

01:10:28

So I really hope that you can attend this conference. I will be there,

01:10:33

God willing, manning my exhibitors booth. And please, if you do attend, make sure you come to my exhibitors booth and greet me.

01:10:43

And the website to find out more details is highpointbaptist .com,

01:10:49

highpointbaptist .com, and then click on events and you will see it says,

01:10:56

Just Thinking Podcast, August 20th and 21st. So that is all the information you need, highpointbaptist .com.

01:11:05

We are now back with Mike O 'Fallon, and one of the things I wanted to ask you,

01:11:11

Mike, I know that you are not a prophet as we've already established, and you're not a mind reader, and I don't want you to impugn false motives to people, but is there anything that you know, as far as data that you have, information that you have, that shows a lot of this favoritism towards these dangerous movements, the woke movement, critical race theory, social justice.

01:11:42

Do you have any idea of knowing, if you could even guesstimate, how much of this is being promoted or accepted or tolerated by people who are ideologically convinced that these things are good and true and beneficial and even necessary, and how much of it is people tipping the hat to these things because they are terrified of what the leftist populace will do to them, react towards them, how many people they may lose in their congregation, how much support financially they may lose, how many speaking engagements may get cancelled, you know,

01:12:28

I could go on and on and on about this. Do you have any idea of knowing without, as I said, impugning false motives to anybody?

01:12:35

Well, I'm trying to make sure I understand what you're saying. Are you asking if the majority of people that are involved with this, especially at the top, are fully aware of what they're doing or what their motives are for doing it, or is that kind of the question?

01:12:49

I'm more talking about the churches that go from anywhere from toleration and silent acceptance all the way to vocally and publicly promoting these things.

01:13:02

I'm mainly talking about the churches and pastors. Yeah, well, I think the best way to answer that,

01:13:09

Chris, is the first thing I think I'd want to do is de -spiritualize in the whole conversation, because I think, you know, where we are right now, we'd say, well, that's my brother in Christ, and you know,

01:13:21

I can't speak that way about whatever the case may be if you're having issues with some Marxist nonsense.

01:13:28

And what you have to realize is that there's a good possibility that person's not your brother in Christ, number one.

01:13:36

No, you do not want to impugn somebody with false motives, but what I can tell you is that the reason that this is happening in the church is because it's happening everywhere.

01:13:45

And the reason that it's happening everywhere is because we are undergoing what would be called a metasystem change.

01:13:52

And faith leaders were brought into this many years ago in terms of discussing how leaders of faith can be able to move the faithful congregants that they have into an acceptance of new normals, new normals, if you will.

01:14:08

And so if you're looking to change the way that people look at sexuality and gender, if you're wanting to help people to change the way that they view the way that commerce works, or the way that the economy works, if you're wanting people to change their ideas in terms of their own privacy, or even the right to own private property, well, you really have a three -legged stool that you need to be able to rest upon to create these things.

01:14:38

One leg of the stool is governance, top -down government. One side is also then the corporations that move everything, the wealthiest of all those, including the central bank system and so forth.

01:14:49

So there's the public -private partnership. That's only a two -legged stool. You have five billion people in the earth that, in some way or another, practice a faith.

01:15:01

And so what you try to do is, in a very ecumenical way, move all of these faiths together towards one common thing that they are all striving for.

01:15:11

And that main thing is social justice. Social justice in a way that can be used to change whatever the hegemony was in that nation, in that church, in that faith, in that tradition, into becoming something that will sit like a cog in a wheel into the new system.

01:15:30

Now, the people that are doing this, Chris, I would say that you would have a very few amount of men that are at the very top that do completely understand what's going on.

01:15:43

Those would be men that have been attending the World Economic Forum for 15 to 20 years, like Rick Warren, people like Richard Land.

01:15:51

You would have other folks that are involved with the Council on Foreign Relations, men like Ed Stetzer as well, that understand what's going on.

01:15:57

And people that have been pulled into this would be folks like, as well, Russell Moore and others. They completely understand what is going on.

01:16:06

Then you would have another level of people that are underneath them that want to make sure that they can ascend to places, they want to get those committee appointments and so forth.

01:16:14

So maybe they know some of this. They know a little bit about what's going on. They don't have all the connections. But they want to make sure that they're at the top when the big change happens.

01:16:23

There's another level of people underneath that, that while ideas like critical race theory, intersectionality, etc.,

01:16:31

diversity, equity, inclusion, are being told to them, these things are explained to them, you might have some that kind of get what's going on and others that are true disciples of the new religion of wokeism.

01:16:44

So within that group, you might have many larger church pastors or well -known pastors, authors of books, that really do passionately believe in the concepts that are included within the

01:16:58

Marxist, really what it is, is race Marxism, the ideas that are within critical race theory.

01:17:04

And then underneath that, that other aspiring pastors, theologians, professors, etc., that are involved in this.

01:17:10

But a lot of the folks that are actually involved in education, in seminaries and universities, many of these guys have strong training in the concepts of critical theory and so forth and postmodern thought that would lead them to teach and create an entire generation of young people and young pastors and young theologians that will be pushing this stuff.

01:17:32

So basically what you're doing is just like how Mao did. Mao back in the 1960s created his

01:17:39

Red Guard through education in China. What you're doing is basically creating a

01:17:44

Maoist ecclesial Red Guard within the evangelical church. Now we completely forgot to, and I think this is a beloved tradition with many in our audience, we forgot to get a summary of your salvation testimony.

01:17:58

So if you could let us know about that. Do we have three hours or no? Let me give a real quick understanding of this.

01:18:08

Maybe this will help to make sense on where I'm coming from and how I know these things. I was born and raised a

01:18:14

Roman Catholic, basically attended church, participated in the liturgy, in the church of my family.

01:18:21

We have many members of my family who were full -time involved either in the pastorate or in ministries within the

01:18:30

Roman Catholic church. But especially when I was getting older and was starting to hear things in CCD that were conflicting and contradictory, that there were some things we're told that we must hold to these doctrinal positions, but yet there is room for these things.

01:18:47

So basically you've got a Vatican II baby, kid, young man who's being brought up in the church that sees the contradictions that are there.

01:18:58

Then I went away to university at the University of Florida, and the parish that I attended there was already basically in doing the things that we're talking about now here.

01:19:12

They were already kind of into the concept that it was almost Hegelian in nature, somewhat

01:19:18

Marxist in thought, rather revolutionary in the way that they viewed things, and a very, very, very poor attitude towards capitalism and so forth that came from that parish.

01:19:29

So I sought another parish outside of the downtown Gainesville area, and I met a priest who was more trending towards Cedevacanism, but he turned me on to an author by the name of Malachi Martin.

01:19:42

Eventually, I read Father Malachi Martin's work. It was called The Keys of this Blood, and I really started to have a hard time with the

01:19:49

Roman Catholic Church and started to question everything. Well, it was during that time after college, after university, that I was becoming disenchanted with the

01:19:57

Roman Catholic Church. I was still attending, maybe a little bit more spotty than I used to, but then

01:20:03

I started visiting other churches, particularly Baptist churches, and it was in a

01:20:08

Southern Baptist Church where I would meet my wife at a midweek Bible study is where she took me, that I heard

01:20:18

Pastor Joe Hancock preach exegetically, expository through the

01:20:24

Book of Galatians, and that's when it was, it's there in black and white.

01:20:31

You can't get away from it, is that my faith and my salvation is not dependent upon my work and what

01:20:40

I do. My faith is dependent upon a sovereign God, and I repented of my sins.

01:20:48

I turned away from these things. I started to embrace, really embracing the

01:20:55

Word of God and wanting to know more of the Bible, because that's something that we would kind of pass through, if you will, you know, in Catholicism.

01:21:04

So I really dove into the Bible, and as well, I needed to go back and explain to my family the change that I had made, that I had received

01:21:12

Christ and was joining a Baptist church. For a little while, I basically turned into a mini version of Martin Luther, and the thing that I kept coming up against was historical criticism and critical theory in terms of the way that you would approach the

01:21:27

Word of God. That was the defense mechanism that the Roman Catholic Church was using at the time, and so that had me really delve into, like the

01:21:36

Geisler -Nicks introduction of the Bible, had me really, really dive into, especially being able to understand manuscript origins, and that's what led me,

01:21:45

I think, to an eventual friendship with Dr. James White. And so, really, from the moment that I received

01:21:53

Christ, it was, if this is true, if this is true, what I am seeing here in the

01:21:58

Book of Galatians, and if Christ is my only hope for salvation, and by putting my faith and trust in Him to do what

01:22:07

I cannot do for myself, repenting of my sins and trusting Him that I may be saved, well, that's something that I have to tell everybody, and I have to actually live my life like that's the truth.

01:22:20

And I guess the frustrating part is now, you know, 27 years after that, there's a lot of the men that I looked up to, a lot of the men whose books

01:22:29

I read and so forth, well, they're not doing that, and that's why we have a Catholic Church. Amen, and it's such a tragedy.

01:22:39

It's mind -boggling, and I am speechless very often when the snowball rolling down the mountain and getting larger and larger and wondering what kind of avalanche we are all going to witness and some of us personally experience.

01:22:59

It's mind -boggling. We do have an anonymous listener who has a question for you, who says,

01:23:06

I've been fascinated by every word you've been saying today, and I am in a quandary. I noticed some leanings and soft attitudes by leadership in the church where I'm a member.

01:23:18

They are not promoting boldly these woke heresies, but they're never speaking out against them or being critical of them.

01:23:29

I have privately approached some of the leaders, and basically they, these issues are typically dismissed as political matters that we can disagree over.

01:23:43

My questions for you are, first, how should

01:23:48

I respond to those things in greater depth, and second, should I remain a member of such a church?

01:23:57

Oh, it's hard for me to say whether you should stay or go without knowing the exact situation, and I wouldn't want to ship without knowing it, and I feel for you,

01:24:09

I pray for you. What I can tell you is that yes, if this is confirmed that they are teaching, let's say if your midweek

01:24:20

Bible study is something through Tim Keller, or if you're spending time with Jamar Tisby in your

01:24:28

Sunday school class and so forth, that you have a real problem, is that what is coming into your church has been

01:24:34

Gnosticism, and really creating a problem of understanding the objective truth and life here on earth, and that everything that is physical, everything that is real, everything that is tangible is evil, it's a demiurge in essence to them, and that everything spiritual in terms of the

01:24:55

Sophia wisdom is the right thing. That's where that church, I pray that they're not, and it could be just that they have pressure from the top down, maybe they're associated with a denomination or with another group of churches, and they're being told that this is the direction we're going.

01:25:13

I would suggest preparing yourself. I would suggest reading Dr. James Lindsay's book called

01:25:19

Race Marxism. I would suggest listening to some of the conference videos that we've done at Sovereign Nations, and please reach out to me personally.

01:25:29

Great, we have another anonymous listener, and I had a feeling this was going to happen because of the nature of the topics.

01:25:37

The anonymous listener says, I for the life of me have never been able to understand why so many solidly reformed men who are theologically and doctrinally right on the money from everything that I have ever seen or heard or read by them, who at the same time seem to have this loving adoration for Tim Keller.

01:26:04

What am I missing? Well, they in many ways, just like you might have, and I hate to put it this way, but in many ways you might have a favorite character in a movie or a

01:26:17

TV show or maybe a favorite poet or an actor, is that a lot of people,

01:26:24

I mean Tim is a sorcerer with his words, but Tim is a guy who is postmodern in his construct, is pushing ideas and concepts that would transform the church, and what he's really done is he's created,

01:26:39

I believe this is the case, it's a simulacra of the real reformed church.

01:26:45

He's created something that looks like what was the church, that uses the same language of the church, but the problem is he uses the same language, but his dictionary is different than yours, and his dictionary is different maybe from your pastor's, but yet because it sounds beautiful, and again it's very postmodern in terms of the narrative that he creates, that can be deadly and it can be poison that can eat away, so I would pray that they would separate from it.

01:27:17

Yeah, I actually have shared that bafflement long before Tim Keller was famous.

01:27:25

I knew who he was, I met him when he was a new pastor in Manhattan.

01:27:32

I was working for WMCA Radio, a Salem affiliate, and being the token Calvinist there, the only reformed person there, my general manager said, hey, why don't you try to sell airtime to Tim Keller, and I reached out to him and met him, and then met someone who was attending there who left there because, and he showed me the photocopy of a very lengthy letter that he sent to Tim, begging him to state clearly in non -vague words that homosexuality is a damnable sin when it is not repented from, and he never heard back, so he left the church.

01:28:22

And of course, I've even done a program on Iron Sherpa's Iron Radio where Phil Johnson and I examined

01:28:29

Tim's interviews on the Veritas Forum, you may have seen them,

01:28:37

I believe they were held at Berkeley in California, where he was tap dancing and tiptoeing around the issues of homosexuality, and basically kept saying, well, pride's even more sinful and that kind of thing, you know.

01:28:53

So, very frustrating. Well, and Tim, remember that when we talk about that this is really, you know, what

01:29:06

Tim is doing, it's not like it's just Tim Keller who's decided that he's going to do it, and he's going to lead the charge to bring in these either critical concepts, you know, in terms of neo -Marxism or postmodern concepts, he's actually following an agenda.

01:29:22

It's basically the role of faith in systemic global challenges. And so, in doing that, what he's participating in is basically a way to address global challenges that folks like the

01:29:36

World Economic Forum have set our problems in terms of us being able to become a new society, to create a new social contract, and his role is to find ways of getting around what would be a problem and bring it to a solution.

01:29:52

And so, what you really have happening is the dialectic. So, this is, if you were familiar with Hegel's dialectic, you know, and as well

01:30:00

Kant and so forth, is that, you know, you have the you have the problem, you have the thesis, the antithesis, and the synthesis.

01:30:10

So, you move from the first thesis of what was, you then have the antithesis of that, and then you seek a third way.

01:30:18

And in many ways, there are guys that are even involved that a lot of people read right now that think, okay, here's somebody who's reliable that I can read about what's happening with critical theory, critical race theory, like Neil Shenvey.

01:30:29

And Neil Shenvey had already stated about two years ago that he was seeking a third way.

01:30:35

So, we need to make sure that we discern with our leaders. We need to make sure when it comes to someone like Tim Keller, that we do lovingly confront at first, but we've been lovingly confronting

01:30:48

Tim Keller for five years, six years, maybe Chris, you longer. We've been confronting a lot of these leaders in evangelicalism for many years, and they just continue to lie and obfuscate, go back into their mock, get ready to jump back into the

01:31:03

Bailey again. And this is not finished until we actually ask them to leave their position and take back our church.

01:31:11

We have a related question from Robert in Westchester County, New York.

01:31:19

Have you ever read the book, Engaging with Keller, Thinking Through the

01:31:24

Theology of an Influential Evangelical by Ian B.

01:31:30

Campbell and William M. Schweitzer? I have heard it is an excellent critique of Keller, written in a kind fashion, but I have not yet read it.

01:31:41

I haven't read it. And, you know, basically, the things that you can know about Tim Keller by reading his books, and once you understand the language that he's using and what he actually means in terms of his definition, that's when maybe if you read something from Tim Keller eight, 10 years ago, but now with an understanding of critical theory, critical race theory, you're starting to understand the language that's being used, which is religious in a sense, because this is a metaphysical revolution.

01:32:08

You'll begin to see exactly what Tim Keller is doing, because what Tim Keller is doing is no different.

01:32:14

And the things that he's saying is no different than what is being said in other faiths that are now embracing this change.

01:32:22

So my reading is not just in terms of Christianity, it's in terms of what's happening from a geopolitical standpoint, what's happening in education and so forth.

01:32:31

It's exactly the same thing. And really what you have is a combination, like there is

01:32:36

Christopher Walken that he is referencing to constantly on the Gospel Coalition. And this gentleman is on his

01:32:44

Twitter page, on his graphic is saying he's trying to create a new social contract. So we're going back to Rousseau here.

01:32:52

And what you're trying to basically create is a pre -modernity kind of mindset. But what you're trying to do is change the doctrinal approaches and the things that are accepted that are.

01:33:03

It's a question of becoming. So in essence, you have the dialect that's occurring, as you try to change, really, the beliefs, the language, the intent of what is reformed evangelical

01:33:15

Christianity. We have Ronald in eastern Suffolk County, Long Island, who says, these circles of ministers with whom

01:33:24

I have fellowship are not those who would consider themselves by any stretch of the imagination as members or supporters or advocates of anything under the realm of woke ism.

01:33:40

However, they say that they don't address these issues from the First, because they believe the pulpit is for the gospel and not to be tangled up in current controversies.

01:33:55

And they also say, for the most part, that they believe this is a passing fad.

01:34:01

How do you respond to those things? Well, it's not a passing fad. It is the largest cult startup in because you have every nearly every government, nearly every, every corporate entity, and nearly every major faith, playing the game at the same time.

01:34:23

And within Christianity, you have nearly every denomination stained with it in some way, outside of maybe just a couple, every seminary, and most paratrooper organizations have been stained with it.

01:34:37

This is an invasion. And what is needed at this point, is basically another reformation within the church.

01:34:44

You have to confront this error, and you must push it out. No different really than what

01:34:52

Uranus did in Leon, France, when he was, was really trying to his, his work against heresies against the

01:35:01

Valentinian Gnostics. In the same way, this thing could take over everything, because it's not just happening within the church.

01:35:11

It's not just an insurrection within the church. It's also outside of the church. And if we don't stand up, confront it, and make sure that we push this out of our churches so far, that it can never come back in, then unfortunately, this might be a losing battle, at least for our generation, the

01:35:31

Lord is going to be sovereign in his intent. But we might not see that when now when we might lose a few generations to this nonsense, if we don't get busy.

01:35:40

Now, what are some tangible things, counsel, where you're actually getting involved in some nuts and bolts issues, where listeners where if they see a problem, anywhere ranging from apathy and silence over these things, which

01:36:01

I am confident, although I'm not as knowledgeable to say this with certainty, but I'm confident that the last questioner was probably fairly correct in that the bigger problem amongst church leaders is apathy and silence rather than being, you know, really full bore promoting these things.

01:36:28

Right. But anywhere from that apathy and silence towards the full bore promotion, either if it's churches where listeners are members, or they just happen to know the pastors personally, or maybe they don't even live anywhere near there, but they want to somehow contact them or however you would recommend people get actively involved in and being

01:36:57

God's tools to slow down and hopefully eradicate this stuff from the church.

01:37:05

What are the nuts and bolts advice? Or what is the nuts and bolts advice that you have?

01:37:13

Well, I think there's several things. I mean, Matthew 18 is one process, but where you have blatant error, where the bride of Christ is being molested and raped on a weekly basis from the pulpits, from the headquarters denominations and through parachurch ministries, is that you need to be the one, whoever you are, you need to be the one to confront this, even if you're not a confrontational person.

01:37:43

This is an attempt at a cultural revolution within the church. So whether it be approaching your pastor, doing your homework first, so you're not tripped up, and explaining, this is what's happening, why are you doing this?

01:37:57

You need to have those tough conversations. If it means that it needs to go before the elders, and that this becomes something that's public, you have to do that.

01:38:04

But I think a lot of us are, in our minds, this is the way that I operated for a long time, we're not confrontational.

01:38:10

We don't want to be confrontational. You don't want to be known as that guy in the church. I think the thing is, though, in your churches, and there could be some that are fully gone to this stuff, but there's a lot of people in your church that will stand with you.

01:38:26

If you're a trustee at a university or seminary, or you're on the board of a ministry, and you see this going on, start bringing it up, start saying, we need to end this.

01:38:37

It's that kind of person who is relentless in understanding that if we lose this, if we lose this, and if we allow them to continue to take over, because this isn't just within the church.

01:38:49

Remember, as I explained to all the men that signed the Statement on Social Justice in the

01:38:55

Gospel in 2020, I explained to them that this is all going to become legislative before too long.

01:39:02

And we're on our way there right now, where you might lose your 501c3 status if you don't say the right things.

01:39:09

Heck, you might even, the heck with your 501c3 status, you might lose your ability to take in funds as soon as we go over to central bank digital currencies soon, if you are not towing the right line doctrinally in terms of what the new faith is, not that racist faith that people used to practice before 2020.

01:39:31

So you have to understand what we're up against with this thing. And this is not hyperbole. This is not me exaggerating.

01:39:39

Obviously, I have a long track record now of being able to say this is what's going to happen. And this is how it's going to happen.

01:39:45

This is your moment. This is the moment that the Lord has you on earth to proclaim his truth.

01:39:53

And if you don't proclaim that truth in your church, or you're afraid to, please, please do me a favor.

01:40:00

And don't call yourself a reformed Christian. Because you're standing on the shoulders of giants.

01:40:07

You're standing on top of bodies of men who died for the faith, who thought it nothing to give their own life for the truth.

01:40:18

And you just don't want to get embarrassed. You need to stand up. And maybe today is that day.

01:40:25

Amen. And now we have to go to our final break. It's going to be a lot shorter than the other breaks. If you have a question, folks, send it in immediately because we are rapidly running out of time.

01:40:36

Go to chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com. Give us your first name, at least your city and state of residence, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

01:40:48

USA. Don't go away. We're gonna be right back with Michael Fallon. James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here.

01:41:10

Excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio and I are heading to Washington, D .C.

01:41:17

for the G3 Ministries Regional Conference on the theme, Just Thinking About the Bible. The conference will be held

01:41:23

Thursday, September 15th through Saturday, September 17th. And I'll be speaking along with Stephen Lawson, Josh Weiss, founder of G3 Ministries, and Daryl Bernard Harrison and Virgil Walker, co - hosts of the

01:41:35

Just Thinking podcast. To register, visit g3min .org, that's g3min .org,

01:41:42

and click on Events. Your registration will include a ticket to the Museum of the Bible nearby the conference venue in Washington, D .C.

01:41:50

So join me and Chris Arnson, September 15th through the 17th in Washington, D .C.

01:41:55

for the G3 Ministries Regional Conference. Register now before they run out of seats at g3min .org,

01:42:02

that's g3min .org. Stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnson while you're there.

01:42:25

As host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

01:42:32

The church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey, pastored by Alan Dunn.

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Hello, my name is Anthony Eugenio and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York and also the host of the reformrookie .com

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website. I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio show like I do, you can now find it on the

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And finally, if you're looking to worship in a Reformed church that holds to the 1689 London Baptist Confession of Faith, please join us at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, New York.

01:46:20

Again, I'm Pastor Anthony Invinio and thanks for listening. This is

01:46:31

Pastor Bill Sousa, Grace Church at Franklin here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

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Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio financially.

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Grace Church at Franklin is an independent, autonomous body of believers which strives to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in scripture through the person and work of our

01:46:59

Lord Jesus Christ. And of course, the end of which we strive is the glory of God.

01:47:05

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe 10 minutes, or you are visiting this area, or you have friends and loved ones nearby, we hope you will join us some

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Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior. Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church at Franklin.

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Our website is gracechurchatfranklin .org. That's gracechurchatfranklin .org.

01:47:36

This is Pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our

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Sovereign Lord, God, Savior, and King Jesus Christ today and always.

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When Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio first launched in 2005, the publishers of the

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01:49:59

Attention all men in ministry leadership. You're all invited to my friend Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon, Thursday, September 22nd, 11

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AM to 2 PM at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, featuring me,

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James White of Alpha Omega Ministries, your keynote speaker. Not only will you enjoy a wonderful time of fellowship with your colleagues in ministry over a delicious meal, but you'll also receive dozens of three brand new books donated by Christian publishers all over the

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So if you're a pastor, an elder, a deacon, a parachurch leader, or any other man in ministry leadership, please register for the

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ironsharpensironradio .com. This is James White of Alpha Omega Ministries, hoping to see you

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Thursday, September 22nd, 11 AM to 2 PM at Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania, for Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpen's Iron Radio Free Pastors Luncheon.

01:51:27

Welcome back, Michael Fallon. Can you let us know some of the specific themes that you will be addressing at the upcoming

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Nonconformist Ministries Conference on the title, Faithful?

01:51:45

Well, Pastor Woodard has asked me to deal with the historic examples of Christ in the last 2 ,000 years, and as well, looking at that from a polemical standpoint of what it means to be trustworthy.

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Now, would these be men from New York City? I'm sorry? Would these be exclusively

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New York figures from church history, or are they go beyond New York? Oh, beyond New York, yes.

01:52:15

Okay. So looking at, you know, what has really happened, and to be able to take a look at, you know, how we can follow the examples, the faithful examples of others that have stood up for the truth in difficult times, when really it seemed as if the world was against them.

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And if we will just see the fact that the men that we write glowingly about today, those are men that really had to risk everything, including even life and limb, to be able to tell the truth.

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And that that's something that we're called to do still today. Maybe we thought that those eras were long gone, bygone eras, but no, you need to stand today.

01:52:54

Well, this conference is going to be held, as I said earlier, next Thursday through Saturday in Manhattan.

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That is the 25th, 26th, and 27th of August.

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And Mike O 'Fallon is one of the speakers on the roster.

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There's also going to be John Benziger, pastor of Redeemer Bible Church in Gilbert, Arizona.

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There's my friend Mike Abendroth, who's been on this program a number of times, senior pastor of Bethlehem Bible Church in Massachusetts and host of the

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No Compromise radio podcast. His brother, Patrick Abendroth, senior pastor of Omaha Bible Church in Nebraska, is going to be on the roster.

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David Lovie, and if you have an opportunity to have a private conversation with David Lovie after he speaks or preaches, you will probably come close to having a coronary arrest laughing, because he's an extremely, extremely hilarious guy.

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He does spot on imitations. I'm not going to say who he is impersonating on the air, but he is brilliant in that area.

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But anyway, I really hope to get David on this program soon, and perhaps even,

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God willing, before the conference. The aforementioned Andy Woodard, who is running this conference, he's the pastor of Providence Baptist Church in Manhattan, and it is one of the very few trustworthy churches left in Manhattan.

01:54:34

I mean, do you think I'm exaggerating when I say that, Mike? No, yeah. I mean, really, you think about the largest city in the

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United States, and how many trustworthy churches do you have? I know. I mean, most of them have been swallowed up by Redeemer and Tim Keller.

01:54:47

Right. And also Brian Oettinger, I have not yet met

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Brian, director of Expansion Love Life USA. They will all be speaking on the roster, and for more details, you could go to the

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Providence Baptist Church of New York City website, which is pbc .nyc.

01:55:09

P as in Providence, B as in Baptist, C as in church .nyc for New York City, and click on conference registration.

01:55:18

You can also go to sovevents .com, S -O -V standing for sovereign, events .com.

01:55:27

And if you could conclude with about two minutes of uninterrupted time where you're summarizing what you most want etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners today,

01:55:35

Mike. Well, I think, remember, folks, that one thing that we have to do as a church is just know our duty, and as Christians, to know our duty.

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And our duty is, yes, to propagate the gospel, and as well to tell the truth.

01:55:50

Remember, this is what we're up against. I want to read a quick quote here. This is from Antonio Gramsci, the one who really formulated the concept of cultural

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Marxism. He said this, quote, socialism is precisely the religion that must overwhelm

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Christianity. In the new order, socialism will triumph first by capturing the culture via infiltration of schools, universities, churches, and the media by transforming the consciousness of society.

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So basically, you have the gospel of socialism that we are up against, the gospel of Gnosticism that we're up against, this critical concept, this vengeance gospel that's here to transform the consciousness of society.

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And instead of the mind of Christ, they want to supplant that with the mind of Marx. We must stand up.

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This is your time, church. This is your time, pastor. This is the time that you stand up.

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And not just save this for America, but save the gospel and ensure that the gospel will continue to be preached faithfully in churches for thousands of years to come.

01:56:58

This is your moment. Amen. Folks, also please remember that dear friends of both

01:57:07

Mike O 'Fallon and I, Daryl Bernard Harrison and Virgil Walker, are speaking this

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Saturday and Sunday at the High Point Baptist Church of Larksville, Pennsylvania.

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It is the Just Thinking Podcast, and they are going to be addressing some of the very things that Mike has been discussing today, including the destructive worldview of critical race theory and other matters.

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If you want to attend this conference, go to highpointbaptist .com, highpointbaptist .com.

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And that's where my friend Matt Tarr is pastor. I hope that you can attend. I will be there, manning an

01:57:49

Iron Sharpens Iron radio exhibitor's booth. Mike, I really thank you for such an extraordinary job you did today on the program, and we cannot wait so long to get you back on the program.

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So please, let's try to arrange another interview very soon. I want to thank everybody who submitted questions today.

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I want to thank everybody who listened to the program. And I want you all to remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater