Jeremiah Nortier⧸Trey Fisher Vs Zachery Feinberg⧸Andrew Curle：Water Baptism for Forgiveness？

Opening Remarks and Debate Setup

Thank you for joining me in this episode of the gospel truth. I'm your host Marlon Wilson. And we have another fantastic show for you today another fantastic debate. I hope you guys are ready for it. We have a two or two debate.

I have Jeremiah Nortier. I have Trey Fisher. I have Zachariah Finberg and I have Andrew curl with me and we're gonna be debating is baptism necessary for forgiveness of sins past Present and future and so I hope you guys are ready for this debate cuz it's gonna be an exciting exciting exciting debate.

But before I bring the guys and I do want to make sure you know to subscribe to the gospel truth. Hit that subscribe button and that notification bills and miss on any shows that I come up here in the future on the gospel truth.

Don't miss out anything. Hit the subscribe button. Please do it now do it now and if you don't know the guys truth is not only on YouTube or Facebook Twitter X Instagram and tik-tok to make sure you subscribe and follow on those respective show from your platforms as soon as you can do That and support the ministry with a follow or like if you can also all this content is not only on video But also audio iTunes Google Play Spotify.

So flow over to the podcast and platforms and subscribe and follow on those Podcasting platforms if you can and as always I do have some shows that I come up here in the future that I want to make. Sure you guys are aware of all right coming up after this debate.

I have CJ Cox and JP. They're gonna be joining me. Does God decree all things it should be a fun one a very controversial very exciting can get heated at times. But I'm sure everyone be looking forward to this one.

Hopefully you guys are getting ready for it after that. I have radar and Jason jumping in and they're gonna be rain does at all. Does it's a Trinity in the Torah is it implied in the Torah things like that?

So it should be a fun debate. Hopefully you guys are looking forward to it. And I'm looking forward to it as well as we radar just first time on the gospel truth. Then after that, I have dr. Michael Burgos and Brandon Nero gonna be jumping on is Jesus the Father Incarnated that is the debate premise for this debate.

And so hopefully you guys are looking forward to it. It'd be a oneness versus Trinitarian debate. And so hope you guys are looking forward to debate and it should be a fun one. And lastly, we are having a conference.

Well, I'm gonna be a part of a conference in February of 2025 is gonna be opening up theology conference. And this is gonna be an exciting one. I hope you guys are looking forward to it. Hope you guys were able to go to the last conference.

I wasn't able to go wasn't able to go but this time I'll be there. I'll be there as a speaker. So hopefully you guys would be able to come and I'll be able to meet a lot of you guys. No, Jeremiah will be there.

He'd be there in the capacity as a debater. So hopefully he'll be getting that debate partner soon. Come on, Jeremiah. Come on. Come on. You got to get it. But nonetheless, this should be a fun fun conference.

Hope you guys are looking forward to it man. If you guys are interested in knowing more about that Check out open air theology on a YouTube channel and I'm sure they have a lot of information there that you need for that.

Alright, that's it. We are excited for this debate and I am excited as well. Trey Fisher and Jeremiah has been on before in the capacity of debate. Jeremiah came on on a one-on-one and Trey has been on in a one-on-one debate.

And so now Andrew and Andrew and Why am I forgetting folks name man? Andrew and Zachary my goodness man again brain freeze here. Andrew exactly reached out to me and say hey, we're down to debate. We want a two-on-two.

I said, okay I think I know some folks who handle that who will take care of that. And so we set it up and now these guys are on the show and I'm glad to have them. Let me bring them in so they can introduce themselves to you guys.

What's up fellas? How y 'all doing?

What's up?

You guys have joined me appreciate you guys for coming on so we're gonna have a fun time with this topic. We are a little bit behind schedule. So I'm not gonna waste any more time. I'm gonna allow you guys to introduce yourselves to the audience.

So you tell them what you do. Blogs YouTube channel. Whatever you do, let me know what you do. Start with Jeremiah and Trey. Go ahead. Give a quick introduction yourself guys.

Go ahead. Don't go for Trey. Okay. Well, I don't think. Marlon thanks for having me back on. I've lost count how many debates this is for me on your platform. But thank you. I just want to encourage everybody to go over to the apologetic dog YouTube channel.

Please show some support. Please like and subscribe and check out that content. Also, check out the apologetic dog website at The apologetic dog calm. I also serve as a pastor and elder at 12 5 church here in Jonesboro, Arkansas Northeast Arkansas, we'd love to for you to come by and check us out and I just want to thank you so much for all the support those individuals that supported the ministry that renamed remained nameless and I'm just want to especially thank my wife who is the babe of all babes and All of my church support from 12 5 and the fishbone.

What about it, so I'm Trey Fisher. I Have a podcast called the parish reform podcast and we got another one coming out called what about it? It's gonna be pretty awesome. But yeah, check out those Came my past.

I had 18 years in the Church of Christ. Although every time I talk to someone in the Church of Christ They say I never was in the Church of Christ and never understood the church. You don't know I went to a church Christ high school.

Met my wife at Harding and she is the babe of all babes. So yeah, I'm a pastor at the parish the parish of the Redeemer in Calhoun, Louisiana loved the people in the Church of Christ and I want them to come out of it and see the gospel of Jesus Christ and To take that yoke of heavy works off their shoulders and to trust in Christ in Christ alone for their salvation.

That's where my passion is. So glad to be here. Thanks, Marlon.

All right. Thank you guys. All right, Zach and Andrew you guys up next man. Go ahead. We kick a quick introduction yourself.

Hey, my name is Zachary Feinberg. I am Dad a husband just a normal Christian. I do preach sometimes at my church the Springs Church of Christ in South Florida and Margate specifically. I also lead evangelism where we go out there at least once a month and we just talk to people at the mall knock on doors.

Whatever if you want to have a conversation, that's what we do. I also have a YouTube channel called. Let's talk apologetics where it's pretty much just that I any type of apologetics We want to talk about.

You can you know, send me an email comment on anything and that's just what I do. I really love it and I really appreciate this time to come on the podcast or on the YouTube and have this awesome discussion.

My name is Andrew curl again. Thank y 'all for having me on. I've been preaching in churches of Christ for the last eight years now. Thankful to be here. I got a friend of mine who's in the process of building me a website.

I'm hoping it will be done by the end of the year. I guess I'll probably try to hook up with Zach or something and Maybe see if he can try to help get the word out that it should be about scripture. Calm I believe and so hopefully that will be done by the end of the year.

Articles and things that I enjoy writing different Bible topics. You can go there and read those. Hopefully we be up soon.

That's it.

All right. All right. Thank you guys for once again coming on appreciate you. So we're gonna jump to this debate. The premise of this debate is water baptism necessary to receive the forgiveness of all our sins past present and future.

Zachary and Andrew you guys are arguing the affirmative Jeremiah's Trey. You're arguing negative and we're gonna start that with 20 minute opening statements and that's gonna be followed by 10 minute open 10 minute rebuttals and then we're gonna follow that with a Total of 15 minute cross-examination.

Both teams get 20 minutes each. 25 minutes should I say 25 minutes each to ask? questions and then we'll follow that with 5 minute closing from the audience and then a 20 30 minute Q &A from 5 minute closing from each team and their 20 30 minute Q &A from the audience.

Sounds good.

Yes, sir. Sounds good.

All right, Zachary Andrew. Are you guys presenting? Taking half and half the time half and half for you as someone presenting the opening.

Yeah, pretty much half and half.

All right, you guys got it and I will start your 20 minute timer as soon as you guys you guys begin to speak.

Baptism, Forgiveness, and the New Covenant

All right. Tonight's debate centers on the question is water baptism necessary to receive forgiveness of past present and future sins. I am factly affirmed that it is. Baptism carries various meanings, but for tonight we are focusing on baptism as the act of being immersed into Christ in Baptism we are placed into Christ and have Christ put on us as stated in Galatians 3 27.

For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. This understanding of baptism is the foundation of tonight's discussion. The New Testament as prophesied in the Old Testament and fulfilled through Jesus Christ in the New Testament.

Promises the complete forgiveness of past present and future sins for those who are in Christ Jesus. This covenant signifies a profound shift from the old Mosaic covenant where atonements for sins required continual sacrifices.

Hebrews 10 1. Through Christ's sacrificial death and resurrection the new covenant offers a once-and-for-all atonement. Providing a permanent solution to the humanity sins problem. Hebrews 10 12 and 14.

The book of Hebrews encapsulates this promise for I will be merciful towards their iniquities and I will remember their sins. No more Hebrews 8 12. And then he adds I will remember their sins and their lawless deeds.

No more Hebrews 10 17. This forgiveness is not contingent upon repeated ritual sacrifices, but in the once-and-for-all sacrifice of Jesus Christ. My primary focus will be on examining Acts 2 and Paul's conversion in Acts 2.

We see Peter filled with the Holy Spirit in verses 1 through 4. Begin to preach the gospel to the Jews in verses 14 through 36 upon hearing the gospel. Presentation on the day of Pentecost the listeners whose hearts were pierced by the message asked what shall we do?

Peter's inspired response is not you do nothing. You're already saved because you've already believed your hearts have been pierced. So you have already been regenerated by the Holy Spirit. You're already Christians.

Instead Peter responds repent and be baptized. Every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins or of your sins. Acts 2 38. Repentance and baptisms are in baptism are actions that follow a person's heart being pierced by the gospel message.

Through these steps one receives the forgiveness of their sins. Therefore forgiveness does not precede these actions. Baptism is essential for the process of receiving the forgiveness of sins even if one takes the position that Repentance is the primary focus for the forgiveness of sins in Acts 2 38 rather than baptism.

It is still important to note that repentance occurs after belief as indicated in Acts 2 37 where the people's hearts were already pierced upon hearing the gospel message. However, my stance is that Acts 2 38 must be taken at face value.

Baptism is also connected to the forgiveness of sins. Just like repentance is the Greek word translated as for in Acts 2 38 is the preposition ace. According to Thayer's Greek and English lexicon ace is a preposition governing the accusative case denoting entrance into or Direction and limit which is translated as into to towards for and among.

This suggests that baptism is the specific point at which one Receives the promise of the forgiveness of sins. In the context ace conveys the idea of moving into a state of forgiveness indicating that at baptism.

The act of baptism is directly connected to entering into the state of having one's sins forgiven. Therefore the passage clearly links baptism to the moment of receiving forgiveness emphasizing its critical role in the process of salvation.

The same concept on the Greek preposition ace is found in Matthew 26 verse 28. Which states. For this is the blood of the covenant which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. Here the Greek preposition ace is used again in for the forgiveness of sins.

In this context Jesus speaks of his blood being poured out on the cross for the purpose of forgiving sins. Jesus shed his blood so the sins could be forgiven not because sins were already forgiven therefore Acts 2 38 cannot mean repent and be baptized because Your sins are already forgiven.

The forgiveness is something that takes place after hence the Greek preposition ace. Now to look at Paul's conversion. Acts chapter 22, we have the inspired Apostle Paul recounting his conversion to his Jewish brethren.

He begins by explaining that the Lord Jesus appeared to him on the road to Damascus. Paul acknowledges Jesus as Lord in Acts 22 10 then the Lord The Lord Jesus tells Paul to rise and go into Damascus and there you will be told all that is appointed for you to do Acts 22 10 in this instance.

Paul is blinded and he's brought into Damascus. From Acts chapter 9 which recounts the same events. We know that Paul was blinded for a total of three days, which he neither ate nor drank. Acts 9 9. We also see that the Lord appeared to Ananias and instructed him on what to do.

Next the Lord said to Ananias rise and go to the street called straight at the house of Judas. Look for a man of Tarsus named Saul for behold He is praying and he is seen in a vision a man named Ananias.

Come and lay his hands on him so that he might regain his sight. Acts 9 11 and 12. Clearly Paul is praying at this moment because the word The Greek word for praying is a verb in the present tense. Indicating that Paul is currently praying to the Lord at this point in Paul's conversion story The Lord Jesus has appeared to him.

Paul has acknowledged Jesus as Lord. He is fasting from food and drink and he is praying to the Lord Jesus. However, if we continue examining what Paul was instructed to do by Ananias We see that Paul was still in his sins and not yet a Christian.

Paul was told to wait in Damascus for further instructions and Ananias came to him and said brother Saul Receive your sight and at the very hour I received my sight and saw him and He said the God of our fathers appointed you to know his will to see the righteous one and to hear his voice from his mouth for you will be a Witness for him to everyone of what you have seen and heard.

And now why do you wait rise and be baptized and wash away? Your sins calling on his name. Acts 22 13 through 16 Ananias inspired by the Holy Spirit told Paul to rise and be baptized to wash away sins calling on Jesus his name.

This instruction highlights that despite Paul's encounter with Jesus his acknowledgement of Jesus as Lord his fasting and his prayers He still needed to have his sins forgiven. Ananias being guided by the Holy Spirit.

Seeing that he's performing the miracle of healing and receiving visions both of which are clear signs of the gifts of the Holy Spirit mark 16 17 through 18 and Acts 2 17 would not have told Paul to wash away his sins if they were already forgiven.

This shows that according to the book of Acts one sins are not forgiven until they are baptized into Jesus Christ for the purpose of forgiveness. Acts 238 in Recounting his conversion in Acts 22 Paul provides a detailed account of what transpired in Acts 9 and the instructions He received from Ananias the inspired man.

Ananias Paul and Luke the writer of Acts all concur on the sequences of events. Even after seeing Jesus and acknowledging him as Lord and after fasting and praying for three days Paul remained in the sins.

This is why Ananias urged him not to delay. But to be baptized to wash away his sins if one wants to claim that what the washing away of sins occurs not through water Baptism, but through something that happens before baptism such as calling on the name of the Lord meaning Acknowledging Jesus as Lord and praying to him.

Then several important questions arise. Why would Ananias who was inspired by the Holy Spirit tell Paul that he still? Needed to wash his sins away by calling on his name furthermore. Why would Paul when recounting the events in Acts 9? reaffirm that Ananias instructed him to wash away his sins by calling on his name.

And Why would Luke the author of the book of Acts retell Paul's conversion in a manner that stresses Ananias's Insistence that Paul needed to wash away his sins by calling on the Lord's name. All three inspired men Ananias Paul and Luke Consistently affirmed that Paul was still in his sins until he followed Ananias's instructions in Acts 22 16.

To wash them away by calling on the name of the Lord this suggests that Paul remained in his sins prior to that. That moment now to delve into the phrase calling on his name. This expression goes beyond merely vocalizing words to Jesus.

It signifies appealing to God with faith in his authority and saving power in the New Testament. Calling on his name is intrinsically linked to receiving salvation through the forgiveness of sins as stated in Acts 2 verse 21.

And it shall come to pass that everyone who calls upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. Similarly Paul said Paul affirms in Romans 10 13 for everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.

A Quick note on the phrase shall be saved. The in these passages the Greek word is a verb in the future indicative passive. This verb form indicates that the action of being saved will be performed on the subject in the future.

Thus salvation results from calling on the name of the Lord. However, Ananias indicated that Paul had not yet called on his name as Paul still needed to wash away his sins. This implies that Paul's sins had not yet been forgiven.

The reason for this is that Paul had not yet been baptized, which is essential for the washing away of sins. Therefore according to the scriptural narrative baptism is integral to calling on the name of the Lord for salvation.

Paul's conversion involves several critical steps. He heard directly from Jesus He believed in him as evidenced by his prayers to him. He confessed Jesus as Lord expressed in his repentance through fasting and ultimately was baptized.

To wash away his sins calling on his names calling on his name. These steps clearly delineate the process by which a sinner transitions into a forgiven saved Christian.

Now to give it up to my brother Andrew. I think we'd lost Andrew. Yeah, we got you.

I.

Think you broke up like right at the 10-minute mark. We couldn't connect to you. So I'm gonna start the time at 10 minutes. So you have a full tip for that that got a lot of time. So, you know, okay treated it All right, so you got a man for 10 minutes?

All right. Thank you. I'll be reading from Acts chapter 10 and Acts chapter 10 and also Acts chapter 11. Obviously, I'm not gonna have enough time in 10 minutes to read everything in those chapters. So I'll read some of it for us.

Acts 10 verse 1 now there was a man at Caesarea named Cornelius a centurion of what was called the Italian cohort a devout man and One who feared God with all his household and he gave many alms to the Jewish people and prayed to God continually.

About the ninth hour of the day. He clearly saw in a vision an angel of God who had just come in said to him Cornelius Fixing his gaze on him being much alarmed. He said what is it Lord? And he said to him your prayers and alms have ascended as a memorial before God.

Now dispatch some men to Joppa and send for a man named Simon who was also called Peter. He is staying with a tanner named Simon whose house is by the sea. When the angel who was speaking to him had left He summoned to his servants and a devout soldier of those who were his personal attendants after he had explained everything to them.

He sent them to Joppa. For those of us who are familiar with Acts 10, you know the story continues Peter sees the vision with the sheep coming down with the animals told to rise kill and eat because Peter needed to understand that God was accepting of the Gentiles the Jews needed to understand that this early on the days of Christianity but if you look at the next chapter Acts 11 verse 1 says now the Apostles and the brethren who were throughout Judea heard the Gentiles also had received the Word of God.

And when Peter came up to Jerusalem those who were circumcised took issue with him. Saying you went to uncircumcised men and ate with them, but Peter began speaking and proceeded to explain to them in orderly sequence.

So here in Acts 11 Peter's going to recount the events of what has just happened in Acts 10. You skip skip ahead to verse 12. Acts 11 12 says the Spirit told me to go with them without misgivings. These six brethren also went with me and we entered the man's house and he reported to us how he had seen the angel standing in his house and saying send to Joppa and have Simon who's also called Peter brought here and He will speak words to you by which you will be saved.

This is the Greek word sozo and it is in the future tense here. So Cornelius needed to hear words by which he would in the future be saved, but he was not saved before Peter had arrived and this idea of Needing words to be saved.

I believe everyone here who's a part of this debate is in agreement that Merely hearing words is not enough to save a person if Just hearing the words saves people. Then everyone that Peter and the Apostles preached to on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2 would have been saved.

But as far as I know, there's no universalist on here. No one here believes that everyone that heard the gospel in Acts chapter 2 were immediately saved just because they heard the words. There were approximately 3 ,000 souls who were saved that day or added to the church that day.

And so I'm suggesting that it takes both the hearing of the words and Complying the hearing of the words and obeying those words, whatever those words may be and this idea of the Importance of the words to be saved can be traced throughout Acts 10 and 11.

But if you go back to Acts 10 verse 22 They said Cornelius a centurion a righteous and God-fearing man. Well spoken of by the entire nation of the Jews was divinely directed by a holy angel. To send for you to come to his house and hear words from you also verse 33.

So I sent for you immediately and you've been kind enough to come now. Then we are all here present before God to hear all that you may command by the Lord again. They needed to hear but they also need to comply with what it is that they were hearing Starting in verse 34 through verse 43.

We don't have time to read all of it. But Peter is going to talk about Jesus about his death burial Resurrection and how people who believe in his name will have the forgiveness of their sins. That's verse 43 but then in verse.

44 it.

Says while Peter was still speaking these words the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who were listening to the words. All the circumcised believers who came with Peter were amazed because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles.

Also when you compare Acts 10 44 with Acts 11 15 when Peter is recounting the events that have taken place notice Acts 11 15 and As I began to speak the Holy Spirit fell upon them. Just as he did upon us at the beginning here Peter's taking the audience the Jews mind back to what happened years earlier on the day of Pentecost when they received the gift of the Holy Spirit and they were speaking in tongues and.

So when he says as I began to speak this language of and The the Holy Spirit fell upon them is identical in the Greek with Acts 10 44. While Peter was still speaking the Holy Spirit fell upon all fell upon them.

The Greek here is epipypto or epipypto. Fall on come upon it's in the aorist active indicative third person singular for both. It is identical. And so when we compare these we see that everything that Peter has been saying in Acts 10 34 through 43 falls under the category of as I began to speak.

Peter is not finished speaking yet. He's going to have more words to say that Cornelius needs to hear to be saved. In verse 46 it says. For they were hearing them Acts 10 46. For they were hearing them speaking with tongues and exalting God then Peter answered.

So here Peter is going to finish the words that he was sent there to tell Cornelius. Peter answers. Surely no one can refuse the water for these to be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did Kenny and He ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ.

So very clearly we see part of those words that Cornelius needed needed to hear was baptism. Connected with water Acts 10 47, which is in the name of Jesus Christ. And that's so that he would be in the future saved Acts 11 14 again.

So is on the future tense for his salvation anytime. These Greek words. There's different Greek prepositions that are connected with Baptism with Jesus. Sometimes it's baptized. It's in epi ace. Whether it's baptized on the name of Jesus in the name of Jesus into the name of Jesus.

Any of those it's water baptism or if you don't take that position if you don't agree with that. We can talk about that in the cross-examination section. But if you don't agree with that You at least know that in this passage and some other ones that will we can look at in the book of Acts later on if you want.

We can see that it's clearly not Holy Spirit baptism. Because Cornelius and his household had already been baptized in the Spirit spirits are being poured out on them. This baptism here cannot be Holy Spirit baptism specifically says water and logically speaking and obviously it can't be Holy Spirit baptism because they already have the Holy Spirit.

I'll go ahead and concede my the rest of my time here.

All right, Zack. You want to finish it off or you also concede in the time as well?

Now, we're pretty good. Thank you.

All right. All right. All right.

Faith, Works, and the Meaning of Baptism

Next up is Jeremiah Nortier and Trey Fisher for their 10-minute open to statement. So once again, I will start your time this. Who's gonna be presenting Jeremiah or Trey. I'll go. I'm gonna wing it. All right, Trey.

You got it for 10 minutes. I'm sorry 20 minutes and This little chime is a one-minute time let you know. Start wrapping it up. You got one minute left but Yeah, I'll start your time when you begin to speak Trey.

All right, Marlon. We're going I'm speaking now. Here we go. Start it up. So Yeah, we're gonna split it up. I'm just gonna wing this. I'm sure Jeremiah has been in a dungeon preparing his. I just got done playing golf got whooped too, but Here's the deal.

I Just want to go right now to the rebuttal. Honestly with what was just said it it breaks my heart for the Church of Christ. It really does. I know why they believe what they believe. I know why they're taught it.

I know. You know I was there and it's just so sad to hear things like you must do this. And like to hear the phrase you must comply. I know where you're gonna see in God telling people you must comply.

He's gonna say you must repent and believe that's what you must do. And so to read Scripture in such a way like you have to do this this and this and you're reading it with this. No heart behind it's just do these things, you know and it's just such a sad thing and but I understand why they believe it if that's what you've been taught your whole life if this is the Good news that you've heard because you hadn't heard and truly understood the true good news.

I guess it's the best news you've ever heard at that point because at least you got a chance, right? But then it's just the weight of this pressure of working and working and doing and doing and trying to prove yourself.

But you have to say well, I'm not trying to prove myself. But deep down all the people in the Church Christ know it and they're fearful if they die. Are they good enough have they done enough? It's because they don't understand the true gospel because it's all based on their works and their efforts.

And so it's just really sad for me. I mean my heart goes out to the Church of Christ people who are sitting there. My beef is more with the the preachers who actually read the text and study it and just keep.

Refusing to see the truth of God's Word for what it is and and to see definitions like faith faith does not mean baptism. Faith means to trust in someone or something, right? And so when you change the definitions of words like that, you're manipulating people.

You're spiritually abusing them and I was one of them. My wife was one of them. I have a lot of friends and family who are one of them and it's just so sad and but I am so thankful that I get to have a technology like this to to preach the gospel and There's been so much fruit and good awesome things for God bringing people out of the Church of Christ.

But listen, everybody has always been saved and this is a shocker to people in the Church of Christ. But every always been saved by faith alone in Christ alone. It's all the way back in Genesis chapter 1 all the way through Revelation.

And so this is the way everybody is saved by grace alone through faith alone. Your works will not do it. Your obedience will not do it. You have no bragging rights when it comes to God Almighty. He was holy and perfect.

We are not we are sinners. We are rebels, but we are saved by grace. I'm gonna stop there. I'm gonna give the dog the rest of the time and I can't wait for the rebuttals.

Thanks, brother, I want to remind everybody of the debate. Proposition in terms of a question is water baptism necessary to receive the forgiveness of all our sins. Past present and future. I want to remind everybody there are two debate topics going on tonight.

What is the nature and purpose of baptism and what is the extent of the atonement? Well, let me start with the latter and tell you that it's impossible for our Interlocutors to be consistent with your future sins being forgiven in the moment of baptism if they believe you can Lose your salvation if you can walk away from the faith or you can fall from grace.

If they believe in apostasy of any kind from somebody who is truly regenerate and has their sins washed away. That is a contradiction. They they've lost that debate if they believe you can truly be in the covenant a Christian.

Receive the Holy Spirit and then you can walk away. Well, what happened to your future sins that were supposedly washed away in the waters of baptism? That doesn't make sense. But I do want to let people know I believe they're trying to borrow from our position that says you can actually trust an amazing Savior who saves to the uttermost and Actually promises that you can have all your sins forgiven, but it's by resting in his finished work and not your own.

So I just want people to understand it is illogical to believe that any future sins can be washed away. If you can then lose your salvation, that is why Church of Christ history going all the way back to Alexander Campbell.