Remembering Keith Green 1953-1982

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona, this is The Dividing Line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us, yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence.

Our host is Dr. James White, director of Alpha Omega Ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation. If you'd like to talk with Dr. White, call now at 602 -973 -4602 or toll free across the United States, it's 1 -866 -854 -6763.

Remembering Keith Green and the Power of His Music

And now with today's topic, here is James White. He walked the Lord seven short years before a tragic plane crash killed him and two of his children, yet his music ministers to many today. In fact, of all the influences I could list at the vitally important time of my life, that was high school and college, his music would be near the top of the list.

As I walked the halls of Independence High School and one of the very few open Christians there carrying my Bible and getting the looks and comments such behavior will always receive, his music was in my mind and in my mouth.

His name was Keith Green. He died July 28, 1982, 20 years ago next month. He was only 28 years old. Today we celebrate what the Lord did and continues to do through the music ministry of Keith Green. This is a personal story.

Most of those with whom I have spoken have very personal feelings about Keith Green's music, especially if they're the same age as I am. Toward the end of my sophomore year in high school in late 1978, the Lord renewed my love and commitment to him.

I felt a deep and abiding love for his word and I began memorizing it and studying it voraciously. But I also love to listen to music. And so I began to listen to Christian music. My parents had some Bill and Gloria Gaither albums around and I can still sing along with Doug Oldham as well as anyone else.

I joined the youth choir at church and eventually was chosen to sing bass in a traveling singing ensemble called Liberation, the North Phoenix Baptist Church. It was during a trip with the youth that I heard someone else playing music that simply entranced me.

It was challenging. It was exciting and spoke to my heart in an almost prophetic fashion. That music was the music of Keith Green. The first song that I heard, the one that still makes me stop and listen even to this day when I hear its opening bars and one that I've found is probably the favorite of most everyone else I've talked to, it starts off like this.

Of course, you recognize the song as Your Love Broke Through.

And as I'm watching the chat channel, we are live today. Many other people likewise found that to be one of their favorite songs. But I am very, very, very pleased today to be joined by, and I was thinking about this beforehand, everybody always says, well, my good friend, but Steve Camp and I are good friends.

Before we bring Steve up, I hope he can hear me. I was just mentioning in the chat channel, there's so many young people even in our own chat channel that I've been mentioning Keith Green and they go, who's Keith Green?

They've never heard of Keith Green before and that makes me feel old. And so I can't just automatically assume everybody's going to know my good friend, Steve Camp. So I put together a little anthology, a little collection of Steve Camp's music because Steve has, unlike Keith who was only given a small number of years, Steve has had a long ministry now in Christian music.

And some of you may have heard some of these songs, just didn't put names with song titles. And so before we bring Steve Camp on to give his recollections, his memories of Keith Green, and by the way, to take your phone calls at 877 -753 -3341, let's listen to a little bit of what Steve Camp's done.

So I am very, very happy to have joining me. And now we're going to have a few challenges here because Steve is on his cell phone. We had everything worked out, but you know how it works in God's providence.

Things change over time and airlines cancel airline flights and things like that. And you know, Steve, I honestly think there's a picture of you hanging in the American Airlines corporate headquarters.

Am I correct about that?

You know, you're not too far off from that. I just landed in Minnesota. I had a 6 .14 a .m. flight cancel, and people were ministering to the various heads over there in Nashville Airport. I have landed safely here, and I'm able to be on with you for the entire broadcast.

And so it is my joy to be with you today.

Well, I'll tell you, Steve, I really, really appreciate it. You will recall, I'm not sure how long ago it was now, two and a half, three years ago. I forget exactly how long ago it was. You and I stopped at a health food store right on the beach called McDonald's, and you started filling me in on just a very small portion of what you could relate about, really the genesis of what might be called modern contemporary Christian music.

And you started talking a little bit about Keith Green. How did you first encounter Keith, and how long ago was that?

Oh, boy, that's a great question. It was in 1977, I believe it was, 78. I was doing a banquet with Pat and Debbie Boone out in Los Angeles. Pardon me, I've been throwing bags here on the carousel. With Pat and Debbie Boone, it was a reception hosted by Word Records, and my first album for Word was just coming out at that time.

And I had heard of Keith. His first album had been released a few years earlier. For those who have ears to hear, a great record, a Christian classic. After the banquet, I had heard that Keith was in town, and some friends of mine arranged a meeting where we could have a chance to hook up and talk and spend some time of fellowship.

That was my first encounter with Keith. He had just bought, James, a couple of houses. He was a very good businessman, and he had bought a couple of houses over in a section of Los Angeles and was using them just to take in anyone off the street he could possibly take in to talk to them about the Lord.

When I went over there, we were all having hot dogs and beans and having a great time of fellowship. Some of the folks from the group's second chapter of Acts were there, just others that were part of that whole time.

I think Jamie Owens Collins might have been there, her husband Dan. We just had a lovely time of fellowship. Keith was really saying, Steve, I'm so concerned even then about Christian music and how people are not concerned about the poor and the unborn and how people are using it only to make profits for themselves.

I wonder what he would say today in the midst of everything. Initially, James had a tremendous zeal for the things of the Lord and his one theme, if there was a theme that marked his life and his ministry over the years, was this unending cry for revival for the church, for missions.

Near the end of his life, he was praying that the Lord, similar to William Booth and other great missionaries, Hudson Taylor, that the Lord would raise up, especially among young people, 100 ,000 missionaries, and in our case, musicianaries, to go out and to use music as an opportunity to do one thing, and that's to exalt the name of Christ and to share the gospel.

That was my first encounter with Keith. I didn't know, as you had pointed out earlier, that those encounters would be cut short. By now, 20 years ago, he is now home going to the Lord.

Keith Green's Theology, Revivalism, and Christian Music

Now, I was doing some reading this week. He was converted at 21 and died at 28. Seven years is not a long period of time, and yet his music, how did his music, did his music have an impact on you as you continued on and all the other people?

What kind of impact did his music have on you and everyone else.

In the 1980s and 90s? Well, you know, Keith never fit the mold, did he? No. In fact, he broke it, not unlike a gentleman I'm talking to here on the radio this afternoon. He was not afraid, as you have not been, to speak the truth, to say it in love, but to really take on the hard issues.

And so last day's ministries, immediately we knew Keith was going to transcend the music area. He was calling back then for people to give away their products. He was calling back then for a reformation of the Christian music industry back to a ministry, a calling and cause that I have picked up throughout the years.

He was, again, at every single point where the industry was being fruitful, as it were, in worldly things, he was calling for great change. So I want you to know that his music, it wasn't just the songs.

It was the zeal and the life of this dear brother that was the real contagious element that was infectious for many of us in the industry at that time. I remember James Hymn coming up to me and saying to the festival, Steve, when are you going to get serious about the Lord?

Hey, I grew up in Wheaton, Illinois. You can't get much more serious than that. I grew up in the holy city, the Vatican City. We have more churches than fire hydrants. I was serious. I was born in a wonderful Christian family.

I went to Wheaton Bible Church most of my life. I had the pedigree. He was challenging me. Man, you know a lot about the Lord. Where is your zeal and passion for the lost? This music should not just be about you and another single and another number one song.

Think of eternal things. This is where he would constantly encourage me. We would have great discussions about this. The thing was I wasn't fighting him on those issues. I agreed with him. None of us really knew how it would take shape, and he didn't know either.

He said, boy, I'm just kind of heading out here. He started the Last Days newsletter with his album. My favorite of the Keith Green records, by the way, the album No Compromise. It was that record that really set him apart.

He coined a phrase that I use, James, to this day called concert crusades. I love that. It's opening up the doors for free. It's partnering with local churches. It's even making our products available for whatever people can afford so that money doesn't stand in the way of genuine ministry.

That's where Keith really made an impact as a co-laborer in Christ. He was willing at any point just to lay it down and risk it all. In fact, James, I was with him about a month before he had gone home to be with the Lord, visiting down at Last Days, seeing all the buildings and the people there that were doing work, and he and his precious wife, Melody, at that time.

She had written a great song, There is a Redeemer, a beautiful song, almost a modern-day hymn of our Lord and his redemption for his virgin daughter. It was coming out on that album, Songs for the Shepherd.

This song had so ministered to me at that time that here at Keith, Keith had an insatiable desire and honor to serve the Lord Jesus Christ. It was that thing during that time that was so impactful. They say last words are lasting words, and it was those last words that we had together.

He said, Steve, I'm willing to lay down music completely. I don't even want to sing another note if it can't bring glory to the Lord. In fact, he said, I'm willing to walk away from it entirely. He said, I'll just become a preacher or a teacher, a missionary, anything that I can do as long as my life glorifies the Lord.

Well, Steve, let me let you catch your breath for just one second while we listen to a little of the song you just mentioned.

Really one of the classics from Keith Green, There is a Redeemer,.

Just mentioned by our special guest today live. I cannot believe that he is able to do this. He is a multitasker. He is multi-talented. He is able to carry baggage while speaking on a cell phone in an airport.

His name is Steve Camp. I tell you, Steve, I don't want to embarrass you here, but you really whipped yourself into shape before the last time I saw you. I remember when I came out to Nashville last October.

You had dropped a bunch of weight. You were looking great. Now I know how you do it. You don't hit the gym. It's lifting those bags off those things with cell phones in your hand.

Yeah, it's layovers and traveling and lost luggage and all those things. It's fun, especially up in Minneapolis where I'm calling you from right now. They have, I think, the longest cord from the gate down to the baggage area in the United States.

It's big, but it's fun to be here.

Well, you know, that demonstrates the fact that you have breath control because you're a singer and I don't. That's why you're able to do this. Now, there's one thing that comes up over and over and over again.

Oh, by the way, Summer says hi. She just messaged me. She's listening over at the house, and she says hi. Summer says hi to you.

Hi, Summer. She is a great little gal, and I hope that she can meet my kids one day too.

Oh, it'll be cool to get you all together. That's the fun part doing webcasts. You can do anything you want like this, and no one can say boo about it. But anyways, the big thing that I'm hearing as I've started talking about Keith Green again is I get a bunch of Reform folks that immediately hit me with, oh, well, but his theology wasn't perfect.

I mean, he was really influenced by Charles Finney and all the rest of this stuff. How do you respond when people say things like, here's a person who was only a Christian for seven years. What do you say when folks bring issues like that up?

Well, first of all, his theology is perfect now, isn't it? Yes, it is. He knows the truth. All the holes are filled. You know, it's true. Keith came from more, I guess, of a holiness fulcrum in his view of theology.

He's captivated. No question. Charles Finney. And there are serious issues in Finney's theology. It's easier to cool down. And I think with Keith, you know, he would stress you on points of his beliefs.

He and I would lock horns biblically, theologically on many issues. But I found him in the end, even though there was a, you know, you had to wade through what seemed like a pond of piranha to get to him on some of those things.

I found him teachable, James, and I think that's the mark of a real disciple. The mathetas is the one who's a learner. And it's one of our hallmarks. My dear friend and mentor, Dr. John MacArthur, it's great to listen to John's tapes over these last 30-plus years of ministry at Grace Community Church because John has changed his views in some areas.

I think all of us would want to plug in the holes in our theology. We just don't know where they are. We want to honor the Lord with a perfect faith, a perfect doctrine. And so I think Paul brings my unity with Keith, at least with Ephesians 4, where Paul brings in verse 3, protecting the bond of the unity of the Spirit.

There's a unity that we have by relationship when we are baptized by Christ through His Holy Spirit into the body. And so I have a kinship, say, with Keith immediately because we are both united in Christ.

But then Paul, I think later in that chapter, in about verse 12 or 13, talks about until we all come to the unity of the faith. And so we realize that the growth in doctrine, the growth in theology is a process.

We don't arrive mature. That in Colossians 1, 28 and 29, that the job of the pastor of the church, the local church, especially the elders who are gifted in teaching, is to bring every man complete in Christ.

There's a process to our sanctification. And so though Keith and I would lock horns on issues of doctrine, I'm more Calvinistic and Reformed in my soteriology and other areas, I also have to own up to the fact that Calvin, as much as I love his dear brother, he never taught on the book of Revelation.

Eschatology was an escaping, kind of fleeting thing for him. And so do we discredit Calvin because he got it wrong on Revelation or maybe wrong on baptism? You know? Well, no. I always joke around, hey, listen, if we're doing a custodification by faith, man, you want R .C. Sproul there.

If you're doing it on baptism, you don't want him anywhere around the building. And I think that's the thing here, that we all have to be teachable and realize that none of us have come to full revelation on all aspects of doctrine.

But here's the key thing for me. Are the core issues, and I know this has been dear to your heart, James, throughout the year. Are the core issues intact? Are the essentials of the faith intact? And I have to say this with all kindness, that even though Finney denied original sin and other key essential doctrines, Keith did not, on the essential issues of the faith, the virgin birth, the authority of Scripture, the bodily resurrection of Christ, original sin, justification by faith alone, the doctrine of the essential doctrines, our brother embraced wholeheartedly.

And I have to say that even though he weighed in those Finney-esque territories and so forth, his music, for the most part, has been protected, hasn't it?

It was. You know, I'm looking at the Last Days Ministries website, and in the article on Keith's history, I found this, a very, very fascinating paragraph. It said, For Keith, meeting Jesus was one thing, becoming more like him was another.

After striving for years to measure up to God's holiness, at times questioning his own salvation, Keith came into a deeper understanding of the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross, both to forgive his sins and to clothe him in his own righteousness.

It wasn't that Keith became less concerned with purity and holiness, but he was now motivated more by love and less by fear in his pursuit of Jesus. And I think of some of his songs, and I'm sure you're familiar with them just as I am, but I think of especially When I Hear the Praises Start by Keith Green, that talks about you can't add anything to what I have done for you, that I wonder if that comes from what they're referring to there in that particular paragraph in his history.

Yeah. Well, you know, with Keith, James, some of his tracks that he put out through Last Days Ministries, some of them, What's Wrong with the Gospel, a two-part track, that was wonderful, that he was taking to task many people that were trying to water down the truth of the gospel.

Keith was, in many respects, more like Luther than like Finney. You know, he had a wonderful love for the truth against Romanism. Yes. Against the Roman Catholic Church, not because he had a bone to pick specifically with them, but he realized that this was the propagates as a different gospel.

And so if you look at a lot of the things that he wrote and was teaching and calling for, now he came from not only the holiness background, but also his call to revival, which I know a lot of people struggle with today.

Crusades there, that Winky Prattney, a dear friend of Keith, even shared with me that, you know, Keith was calling people to repent of their sin. And you might have even seen in his book No Compromise, the aerial photographs of the stage flooded with people prostrate before the Lord.

And Keith was calling for repentance and that he was being to Finney. Well, you know, Keith was gifted. And I think like any of us, like the Pratt is gifting to the Lord to be cauterized. And Keith was very powerful with his lips.

He was very persuasive, as Finney was and others throughout the years. But here, his motive was to call it revival. He came back apparently, James, after that ORU meeting and talked to Winky and said, is this what they did?

Is this what the great revivalists did? Constantly wanting to ministry in line with great theologians of redemptive history. And again, I think that's the hallmark of such a wonderful mark of this dear brother, is that he was teachable.

He had a zeal for the things of the Lord, not always in accordance with knowledge. You know, but he really has evidence now, after 20 years of his home going, that not only are we still talking about him, but more importantly that he's left a body of work that is unmistakably Christ-exalting, Christ-centered, true life.

And I use Keith today. We're seeing a lot of talent to be in it. They sing well. They even look. All these things that people look at, unlike myself.

Can they jump over drummers and things like that? That's right. Oh, yeah.

Don't worry. I'm not going to tell that story. You know, that which we have repented of, James, we don't want to bring. No, but I tried to do antics like that and received a humbling right away through the splitting of my trousers.

But we won't go there this afternoon. But it was a thing that today you see a lot of young artists, that even my most staunch opponents on this call to reformation of Christian music today agree that the industry primed it at its absent of sound doctrine and theology.

And so what you have is an industry that has been wrecked. I don't know if you can hear them screaming in the background. Only a little bit. But here, what you have is an industry today, James, that is teaching a large group of people, I mean literally millions of people around the world, how to feel God and not know God.

It's impossible to catechize with today's Christian music, even though there is some good things. I'm not trying to throw the baby out with the bath water or to a gift of amputation or throwing it all away.

No, there's some good things being done too. But with a lot of Keith's music, the one thing that I so appreciate is that it really teaches us from the Word of God about the character of our Lord or about the duty and the life of the believer in Christ.

That is missing from so much of Christian music today. And so I try to use Keith as a great example. He was wonderfully gifted, a fantastic piano player. Oh, yes. Could have signed a major multi-million dollar deal with Clive Davis and CBS Records and turned it down.

Not in a martyr kind of way or a false humility, prideful way of saying, look what I gave up for the Lord. But he could have competed on the national music scene with anybody in his time, whether it be Elton John, on and on it goes, Van Morrison.

Keith was that talented, a great writer, a great singer. But I have to say I heard some tapes of his earlier music before he met the Lord, or I should say rather before the Lord met him. That's right.

And chose him for salvation. And I tell you, he was great. He was really good. But his music didn't have passion and meaning until he was writing music about the King of Kings and Lord of Lords. And I try to point to Keith as an example.

For a lot of younger artists today to say, what does a Christian musician dedicated to the things of God look like? We have George Beverly Shea and a past generation. We have Keith Green in our group.

Excellent stuff. Our special guest today is Steve Camp. He is joining us on his cell phone from the Minneapolis airport that I have been to. I have run through it many times myself because my publisher is up there, so I know exact fact.

You know I was born up there, right, Steve? I didn't know that. I was born in Robbinsdale, which is a suburb there in Minneapolis. So you're right near my hometown. And I'm going to let Steve take a breather.

We have two folks online. We're going to get to them. There's folks who want to talk to you, Steve. And I have an excellent example, while you catch your breath, of that kind of prophetic music from Keith Green.

And I'm also going to be asking you, Steve, for your favorite Keith Green song. But first let's listen to this.

Do you see all the people sinking down? Don't you care, don't you care? Are you going to let them drown? How can you be so numb not to care? You close the job's door. Even sheds one tear. But he cries, he weeps, he bleeds, and he cares for you.

And you keep on the street.

That, of course, is the music of Keith Green, Asleep in the Light. And I think that really exemplifies the prophetic style of song. I remember when I first heard that. You can't listen to that without being convicted by what is being said.

The church just can't fight because it's Asleep in the Light. And I'm afraid that I don't know that Keith would be overly happy with developments since he went home to be with the Lord as far as the church's ability to fight in the sense of being awake.

Christian Music, Reformation, and the Need for Biblical Discernment

And we have a special guest with us today, Steve Camp, my good friend, a pioneer in his own way in Christian music. I'd like to, how could, you know, we never did get around, Steve, to figuring out. I have wanted to make Abandoned to God and Mercy in the Wilderness and things available through our ministry, and we've never gotten around to you and I working out how that works.

So how can people, especially, I get this question all the time, where can I find good Christian music today that has reformed themes and things like that, and Abandoned to God is just simply a classic along those lines.

How can people get hold of Abandoned to God?

Well, you're very kind to mention that. If they want to come to Omega Ministries, I'm delighted to afford that. People want to request. My music is available for that. If you can afford, maybe some could afford a little more, so it helps.

We're beginning a new company called Audience One Music, and you just spell it out, www .audienceonemusic .org, and they can leave us an email message there requesting the music also. By the way, that was my favorite Keith Green song.

I do that in concert, not every night, but many of the nights. Really? And I appreciate that song. I heard that song when Keith was in Washington, D .C., people, 350 people, and he came on out for about an hour and then sang that song to teach out of God's Word for a season.

Scott Wesley Brown, one of the earlier artists, has been listening to this. Temporary music that's ever been. I don't mind telling you some tears were shed. Dear man, accident of that plane crash on his property 20 years ago this July.

But here, a powerful prophetic, as you said, you can't help but listen to that song and be convicted. Are we the light? Are we just, as the governor said, showing up to church? That's us. Are we what Matthew Mead says is are there many that think they're saved, but in reality they're simply the almost Christian?

They have all the outward extremities, and they've been elected even deacons and elderships of Christ. They've never met the Savior. And quick, even to my own heart, the message of no compromise, the hallmark message really marked our brother's ministry.

Now, Steve, I bet you could guess. If I were to ask you, knowing recent requests I've made of you, you could probably guess probably my two favorite Steve Camp songs.

Well, I would say one would be Living in Laodicea, and it might be either Cornerstone or Pounding on Wittenberg's Door.

Cornerstone would be the other. Now, you know that. Now, what do you think? Now, this isn't fair because we've never discussed it. Yes. But what do you think my favorite Keith Green song would be?

Boy, that is a great question.

There's no way. I suppose I think once I play the first few bars of it here, you'll go, well, of course, especially given what I've done for a number of years going up to Utah and things like that. But just real quickly, then we'll go to our phone calls.

Here's How Can They Live Without Jesus?

I will never, ever forget my very young wife and I, just a couple of months had been married, went up to Utah to pass out tracks outside the temples up there. And I remember driving through these highways in Utah, singing nothing but Keith Green songs.

And that one was one that went through my mind over and over and over again, How Can They Live Without Jesus? Powerful. Just tremendous stuff. Well, now, here's going to be one of our biggest challenges.

You're on a cell phone in Minneapolis, and now we're going to try to bring up callers and let them talk to you. Now, this has worked well at times in the past, and at times it has not.

Well, I'll be delighted to speak to whoever calls in.

A Call for Biblical Discernment in Christian Music

Our first caller is actually a very good friend of mine, a student of mine, a very good student of mine, who hails from across the pond, as they say, in England. And Colin Smith has called in. I had the opportunity of ministering at Colin's church back in December, actually, just a couple of months after we were together in Nashville.

So if you can't hear him, you make sure to let us know, and we'll do whatever we can. But let's see if we can get our callers and Steve Camp together. Okay, let's try it. Rich, Colin, are you there? I'm here.

All right. Colin, Steve, can you hear Colin at all?

I can just barely, but I can hear him. Colin, good day to you. Well, hello. It's good to speak to you, Steve.

Okay. And you too, James. Well, good to hear from you again, Colin. What would you like to ask Steve today? Make sure to speak up nice and loud.

Okay. Well, I kind of had a comment, really, and I think Steve has really touched on it. But one of the things that really challenged me with Keith Green's music when I was a student, his music obviously impacted me a great deal.

But really then following up from that reading, I actually kind of dug behind the music and got an insight into who Keith Green was, what made him tick, and his real passion and desire for the things of God.

And really I kind of look at that and look at the way that that came through in his music, and there was just this passion, this desire for the things of the Lord in his music and the teaching that came from that.

And that kind of introduced me to the whole era of the early CCM movement and into the music of early Phil Keggy and 2nd Chapter of Acts and people like this. And I look at that, and I look at what there is today, and there's a gulf of difference.

There was kind of like almost a naivety in the 70s of CCM, but in the naivety of the music there was a very genuine style, a very genuine feeling, and a very genuine heart for ministry that I feel is often absent in modern CCM.

And I wonder if Steve wanted to...

In other words, there wasn't any, you are my soul tattoo in early CCM.

Yeah, exactly.

Well, yeah, and what I classically, it's a great question, Colin, what I classically call a lot of today's Christian music is God is my girlfriend songs. Yeah. You don't sense that there is a... These days is that they have... approaches him with reverence and... even when you have elements of blessing, which is no laughing matter, coming around and you have a group... rather than a high view of God that demands our reverence and respect of him.

Those early days, the best thing, the way I guess I could answer that, those early days, you know, Christian music, at least the contemporary arm of it, born out of the peace, pollution, revolution crowd of the late 60s.

Artists like Larry Norman were really paving the way, and they were a unique blend of artists. We had a movement through the U .S. come, a lot of people familiar with it, called the Jesus Movement, that started in the late 60s and culminated in the early or mid -1970s.

And I remember being down at X-Blow 72 as a junior in high school. Bill Bright with Campus Crusade put this on. There was 130 ,000 people, I think. A lot of different artists like Barry McGuire, 2nd Chapter of Acts, Larry Norman, and Danny Lee and the Children of Truth, and Love Song, and on and on it goes, Randy Stonehill.

I remember seeing guys, Larry, on a street corner in Dallas. We were staying at SMU with his guitar, singing some songs, and he was there praying and sharing the Gospel with four people, being used by the Lord to share the good news of the truth of the Gospel.

Then I went out to a hillside, and there must have been 3 ,000 people there, and 2nd Chapter was singing Easter songs and some of these songs and sharing the Gospel. The difference was there was an urgency that marked society and marked the church.

Even Elton John, in some of his earlier music, was a tiny dancer. Jesus freaks out on the streets handing tickets out for God. The Doobie Brothers, Jesus is just all right with me, and certainly these songs don't represent the character of our Lord, nor do we want to call them Christian.

But there were commentaries at the time relating to the movement that they saw. They saw all these people, now called Jesus freaks, which in D .C. talk, notwithstanding, I can't stand the term. There's nothing freakish about loving the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength, no matter what dictionary they quote from.

But it's interesting that there was an insatiable, passionate desire that people that were coming out of the Janis Joplin, Jimi Hendrix era, now looking for solidity, looking for foundation, and wanting a great message to proclaim, had taken their social concern agendas and their passion against war and their passion for free love and their passion against nuclear weapons and all the other things, were one for the Gospel.

And all of that urgency and all that passion was now directed to eternal things in the precious Gospel of grace. And so that came through in the music. I remember seeing a second chapter of Acts, you mentioned them, traveling in an old broken-down bus.

And they would sing in front of 200 people at a soup kitchen line at a downtown mission just as soon as they would to 3 ,000 people at a packed auditorium or 30 ,000 people at a Christian music festival.

It made no difference to them. There was a selflessness that was not chart-driven, sales-driven, market-driven, consumer-driven. It was heaven-driven. It was a biblical mandate. We are here to communicate the truth of the Gospel of Christ.