June 28, 2018 Show with Dr. Stephen J. Nichols on “J. Gresham Machen: A Guided Tour of His Life & Thought” PLUS Nathan Pickowicz on “Early American Puritans”

Iron Sharpens Iron Radio Opens With Proverbs 27:17 and Matthew Henry

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown Carlisle, Pennsylvania it's iron sharpens iron a radio platform on which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another. Matthew Henry said that in this passage quote we are cautioned to take heed whom we converse with and Directed to have in view in conversation to make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour. And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions. Now here's our host Chris.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth. We're listening via live streaming and iron sharpens iron radio .com. This is Chris Arntz and your host of iron sharpens iron radio.

Wishing you all a happy Thursday on this 28th day of June 2018. I've got two excellent guests coming up today later on in the program at approximately 430. Nate Pickowitz is going to be joining us. He is pastor of Harvest Bible Church in Gilmanton Ironworks, New Hampshire.

And he is going to be addressing the American Puritans and he's also going to be discussing the Fellowship Conference New England coming up in August and First before that we have right now the privilege of having a returning guest one of my favorites.

He is dr. Stephen J Nichols and he is chief academic officer of Ligonier Ministries president of Reformation Bible College a Ligonier teaching fellow adjunct professor for Reform Theological Seminary Visiting lecturer at Westminster Theological Seminary's program on the John Owen Center in London author of many books including Welcome to the story peace classic readings for Christmas a time for confidence and volumes in the guided tour series on Jonathan Edwards Martin Luther and others and he's the host of the weekly podcast five minutes in church history today.

We are going to be addressing Jay Gresham Machen a guided tour of his life and thought and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron trumpet Zion radio dr. Stephen J Nichols.

Hey good to hear from you glad to be back and Look forward to talking about our mutual friend here in Machen. Amen.

And I want to give our listeners our email address right away because dr. Nichols will be leaving us after Less than a half hour. So if you'd like to send in an email with a question about Jay Gresham Machen Machen Please do it.

So please do so very quickly. Our email address is chris arnzen at gmail .com. Chris a r n z n at gmail .com. Well, it is interesting. It's fascinating that when I asked you to be on the program and I knew that you had written on Jay Gresham Machen and by the way, just this is just a side I have to have you back sometime to talk about your book on the blues.

We definitely got to do that.

But But.

When I knew that you'd written on Jay Gresham Machen, I said to myself I don't think that I've ever done a full program on Jay Gresham Machen or full interview. And I said that that's kind of crazy. I've got to have an interview on Jay Gresham Machen and then I found out that this month there are landmark events in Jay Gresham Machen's life on the 23rd of June in 1914 Jay Gresham Machen was ordained in Plainsboro, New Jersey on June 28th, which is today 1928 Jay Gresham Machen removed his name from consideration for professor of apologetics at Princeton.

Knowing he would not have gotten the votes in the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church in the USA since he also knew he had stirred up the hornet's nest in his denomination with his popular writings and I got more clarification on that from my friend Jeffrey Waddington a Historian and pastor of the Knox Orthodox Presbyterian Church in Lansdowne, Pennsylvania.

June 27th 1933 the Independent Board of Missions was organized and Jay Gresham Machen was elected president the primary reason the Presbyterian Church in the USA found Machen guilty of insubordination to church authorities and On March 29th 1935 they stripped him of his ordination and on June 11th 1936 Jay Gresham Machen was elected the first moderator of the sixth month old Orthodox Presbyterian Church Denomination so all those things happened in the month of June and in Machen's life.

It's pretty remarkable, isn't it? Well, let's let's start off with there's a lot of people I'm sure especially those who are outside of the Reformed orbit. There may even be some in the Reformed orbit that are not Presbyterian or perhaps not Orthodox Presbyterian.

That specific domination who are totally unaware of dr Jay Gresham Machen and I know that he is a hero of yours. You wrote on him obviously, even though you're not in the OPC. He was still a hero of yours and is if you could tell us a summary of this man's life and why we should hold him with such high regard and.

Importance you ran through some of the events here. Obviously, he was involved in a lot of controversy in his lifetime. Why was he involved in this controversy. We go back to the 1910s 20s 30s. This is the high-water mark of what we call the fundamentalist model of liberalism America has deeply in those opening years of the 20th century and modernity came in like a freight train and you found secularism and modernism on the rise in those early years and Much of the mainline church the established church people were just leaving it in droves.

And so the church did not want to be left behind, right? So they just started compromising the compromise the view of scripture compromise the gospel compromise the view of Christ. View man view of sin view of God you name it in order stood in them and to keep them from leaving the church.

So that's what the liberals were doing. They were trying to accommodate this this ancient faith of ours to 20th century sensibilities in a long come to fundamentalist. And there were a variety of these folks and they're very colorful folks.

But really the heavy lifter intellectual of them and one of the keen minds of of all of them was Machen Janity and liberalism and basically his argument very libertarian politically, right and this is America after all.

But you can't totally redefine God. Totally redefined the gospel totally redefined Christ is not Christianity in the final analysis and that was the book line in the same recognize what they had done to the church and how they had gutted the gospel and It was a call to the to the gospel in light of these call.

That was Machen. He lived a very colorful life. He was independently wealthy. Like to travel to Europe and in the YMCA during world professor an area founded a mission board and near the end of his life founded a new denomination and then on January 1 1937 he dies and of all places, North Dakota and Is returned to the now.

The the one of the key things that occurred here that we already addressed is that Machen? On June 27th the the date which was yesterday, but of course in 1933 He organized The mission board. Yeah that started to really get the ire of The Presbyterian Church in the United States the independent board of missions He organized and he was elected president of that mission board.

Why was that such a Startling and infuriating thing for Machen to do that caused that was really the key issue. It seems that caused his stripping of his His ordination.

He had founded Westminster. It did not lead to his but the founding of the mission board was seen by his denominee to set up A commission of why he did it. So just before Machen did this the denomination Sanctioned and released a report entitled re think.

I just say this as an aside whenever I see the word rethink. My my spidey sense goes up. We can reaffirm. We can restate but when we start rethink. And they the denomination was that would be like Pearl Buck's mission.

She was a Presbyterian missionary here. Her parents were missionaries. She was a missionary and She was a denier of the gospel and and in fact, it's funny bring her up because when Machen dies Pearl Buck says if she wrote an obituary for Machen and in the obituary She says the Presbyterian Church kicked me out the front door and it kicked I'm sorry kicked Machen out the front door and it kicked me out the back door.

But Pearl Buck was one of the people that was a supported Presbyterian ministry. He was totally denying the gospel and so Machen said, you know in a denominational setting. These monies that churches are gathering and collecting are going into the denominational coffers and then they're supporting missionaries.

These missionaries are not only not teaching the gospel. They're they're blatantly denying the gospel and so Machen in good conscience could not send Students into this that's denial of the gospel nor did he want to continue to support it financially?

And so he sets up the independent board for Presbyterian foreign mission, but make no mistake about it. This is the gospel. Gospel that's at stake and in Machen's move now whether he was out of bounds was out of bounds with the denominational machinery.

I'll let the gurus of praise God and we do have a listener in Bangor, Maine.

John in Bangor, Maine Says I know that the PC USA today is a Horrible denomination, although there are some remnants of faithful men and women Still involved in that denomination, but they are by and large apostate is The Presbyterian Church USA today a lot worse than it was back in Machen's day because after all John Gerstner remained there for many years and then could no longer take it.

I believe it wasn't until the 1970s if I'm not mistaken that John Gerstner left the PC USA. So, how bad was it when Machen was involved.

Jerk Machen. Machen's family or. But they vacationed every summer on on. Wow, if you can find the cottage where Machen's family would be.

But.

You know, I'd like to say this. I think in many ways Christian liberalism is as important now as it was then maybe even more so. And maybe it's even more relevant today and needs to be read more today.

Now there was certainly and it was driven largely by the so-called hard sciences by the discoveries and biological evolution and science and and basically this is what the intellectual elites were saying and Genesis one is out of step with that.

So we need to rethink everything to say that we are Sinners wretched to the core and are in need of Christ. Hey about being. And these things were just culturally out of steps were to today. It's something else in the Bible and we have these denominations just wholesale wanting to deny the Bible in order to make cultural accommodations.

So, you know sort of same same song. Second verse. Now I think what Gerstner might be though unique example. You know why he stayed in so long. So that might be a that might be a show in itself. Chris, yeah.

Because he was a staunch conservative. I mean it was nothing liberal about him at all.

Yeah, but no, I think I think you could say in there was a crisis in the 1920s. That was acute and there was a crisis. Are we going to. Yeah, and I.

Assume that you would agree that today has gotten so terrifying so bizarre that even the even Machen Who knew how far the the Presbyterian Church in the USA had strayed? He probably wouldn't even recognize the PC USA and much of modern Christendom, especially when you're talking about mainline denominations, he wouldn't even recognize them as being a part of the same religion in any way that even remotely.

Is what Machen sort of prophesied right and give up?

Amen, by the way John and Bangor, Maine you have received a free copy of Jay Grisham Machen a guided tour of his life and thought Which will be mailed out to you by CV BBS comm Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service compliments of our friends at P &R publishing and We thank Bryce Craig and all the folks there for giving us these free copies and also a compliments of CV BBS comm who will be shipping that to you at no charge to you or to us.

Thank you. Thanks a lot John. Let's see here we have Arnie and Perry County, Pennsylvania who says. Why is it that even the conservatives at Machen's time and after within Presbyterianism?

Could not find enough unity to remain as one body and even they split it in the Reformation. Lutheran Zwingli and you see it in the fundamentalist modernist controversy. They were clearly united in what they were against but you you really begin to see a lot of the spinoffs of the big structures that dominate 20th century of you see Colleges Bible and ignited in this era.

You have some disagreements and so you have the associated with them Tautology then you have Machen. He's like that. That's the word I want. It's my denomination has changed. I still like being a Presbyterian.

So you have a variety of these folks responding to liberalism and I think what we have to see is the same thing at the Reformation and it's probably just party that were united on the gospel. United on thinking about eschatology or church government or maybe even how we engage certain see differences.

I think we need to recognize that. Part of that is just get in there and dig through it. We're likely going to disagree with each other. We're gonna have different convictions with each other. So it's one of those things you see it in the Reformation you see it in fundamentalist controversy.

And I think we even see it today and we just need to be reminded that we can have unity on those Essentials of doctors and what constitutes a core commitment to is of Christ dark Baptist friends. Was Baptist now in maturity and has to the gospel.

From what I can remember and I might be a little off base, but perhaps you could correct me I think that the primary reasons why the the conservative Presbyterians if you're confining it to Presbyterianism why they eventually split Company to an extent.

I mean there are there is still fellowship between many of these bodies, but it is over. How one interprets the regulative principle. Like for instance, there are Presbyterians that do not use Musical instruments and they are exclusive psalm song singers and you have some that are more Towards the fundamentalist bent in regard to social issues.

They don't smoke and they don't chew and they don't go with girls that do they don't you know the those kinds of things they don't have any allowance for any moderation of alcohol or any of those kinds of things that are typically known as fundamentalist issues about.

1920s 1930s Presbyterianism it comes down to. So if you were for the Schofield Bible and against booze in a certain camp. If you were against the Schofield Bible and did not mind a wee Scotch every once in a while.

You were on the other camp and of course Machen.

But of course he would never have. He would never have allowed or permitted or winked at drunken drunkenness, absolutely sure. Alright, we have Joey from Clifton, New Jersey. It seems that Machen received a lot of bad press for being a rather hard personality.

We clearly admire his stand for truth and as a exposure of liberalism as another religion. But is there any truth in these claims about his mannerisms and personality? What is part of what he made him able to take such stands?

So, you know one of the things I really enjoyed about writing this book a dear dear lady in there reading through the letters. Literally he kept wonderful letters in there. Where some of the children this came from two different children from two different others and Machen was a bachelor.

So he would often spend Sunday afternoons in the dinner after church. Family. And the other is the Voss family. Your heart is Voss, relative? Voss, your heart is Voss. Yeah, sure and they would write in.

They send in letters and they wanted to sort of set them. We remember him, full of life, loved life. They would just recall. To any students were there to just and let's see here. We have.

Susan Margaret in Dauphin County, Pennsylvania. How much did Machen himself? Change and grow after the fundamentalist modernist controversy. I know that he died relatively young. But is was there any radical change in his own thinking?

Machen spent a semester studying international banking at the University of Chicago. His father was a well-established lawyer. His mother was from a deep south family with lots of wealth lots of connections.

Machen could have done anything. His brother was a very successful attorney. Early on Machen, and it was his middle age, Machen went to Princeton. Only on the condition that he could go to the seminary without having to get ordained.

And so he went to both the seminary and the university got a seminary degree and an MA in philosophy from the university. He did not want to get ordained and he wasn't sure he even wanted to do that. But then something happened.

It's like a light went off and Machen recognized that very young man. Step right in. I see Machen going from sort of a shiftless 20-something who has a lot of options, but doesn't know what he wants to do with his life.

To someone who has a laser focus on God's calling for his life and just take well we are out of time.

I knew this would go by really quickly, especially since we had to get you off before 430 and I want you to come back to just to continue to the discussion on Machen and If anybody wants to find out more about Reformation Bible College go to Reformation Bible College org Reformation Bible Church College, I'm sorry dot org and you can also go to Ligonier org L-i-g-o-n-i-e-r dot org.

Thank you so much. Dr. Steven J. Nichols. We look forward to your return. Oh.

My pleasure. I just really enjoy getting to get. Yeah, my pleasure. And let's expand the discussion in the near future.

You bet. All right. God bless. Well, we are going to our first break right now and don't go away. Obviously the show.

Has just Sorry about that folks.

Obviously the show has just begun so a hold on because we have Nathan Pickowitz for the remaining 90 minutes of the broadcast and Nathan is going to discuss The American Puritans and he's also going to discuss the Fellowship Conference, New England.

And we've also got to announce the g3 conference Coming up in January where Steven J. Nichols who you just heard is one of the speakers on the roster so we will be Continuing our discussion or should I say beginning our discussion with Nate Nate Pickowitz.

Nathan Pickowitz at the Beginning of the program at the after the after the station break. A little bit frazzled here. Sorry folks, because I am not used to interviewing people so quickly and unfortunately, dr Nichols could only be on with us for less than a half hour.

So My mind is still going a hundred miles an hour here. But anyway, if you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Chris Arnzen at gmail .com. Please give us your first name your city and state in your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA and please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, by the way I forgot to mention everybody who wrote in questions. During the first half hour is winning a free book.

Jay Gresham Machen a guided tour of his life and thought. By our first guest Steven J. Nichols. Don't go away. God willing. We'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors with Nate Pickowitz.

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Everyone needs a pastor. Welcome back. This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens I radio if you tuned in late our second guest. We just had Stephen J Nichols. Dr Stephen J Nichols the president of Reformation Bible College the college founded by the late. Dr. RC Sproul and Ligonier ministries he was on the program to discuss Jay Gresham Machen a guided tour of his light and life and thought and Now we are being joined by Nate pickle.

It's pastor of harvest Bible Church in Gilmanton Ironworks, New Hampshire he is writer for the entreating favor and servants of grace and He is going to be addressing today the American Puritans and he's also going to be talking about Fellowship Conference, New England.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to iron sharpens iron radio pastor Nate pickowitz. Hey, Chris. How are you? Well, I'm better than I deserve as always brother. Amen. Amen. It's great to have you back on the program and First of all for our listeners who have not heard you yet on iron sharpens iron radio.

Or if they have never read any of your books or they've never gone to a conference yet where you have spoken Why don't you tell our listeners about harvest Bible Church in Gilmanton Ironworks, New Hampshire?

Used to have them. Amen. Now, how would you categorize?

Harvest Bible Church. I know that you believe in the doctrines of Sovereign Grace, but are you Baptist? Are you? Pedo Baptist.

Where would you fall in to that either one of those categories? Sure. So the the general baseball quill. Whenever you talk to somebody that's what they want you know you meet someone for the first time and it's almost like you could just sit there and over they're dealing with you know, but.

We're we were planted as we're a member of the EFC a so and if you're out west that's Evie free. So evangelical free Church of America, that's our affiliation. Let's make sure the gospel looks evangelical and that I'm trying to be Safe haven for lots of folks that are coming because you know up here, you know where I am in New Hampshire you know church attendance is extremely low like in the single digits and.

For most people they haven't heard the gospel either in a long time or ever and so, you know, we get into you know Secondary tiers of doctrine. They're certainly important, but you know, you're dealing largely with a population that's unchurched.

And so most people don't really know what you're talking about in terms of all the denominations and affiliations and things like that. So we want to first be biblical and gospel centered if I could use that phrase.

It's been beaten up a hundred times in the last ten years. But but yeah, we're that's essentially the base bar. Well, you know something Nate you'd be surprised perhaps.

Maybe you wouldn't be surprised but I've been in the Christian media going back to the 1980s and I have met people who were born and raised in the Bible Belt and were raised in Baptist homes and Pentecostal homes and other kinds of evangelical homes and In the long years and involved in the Christian media there is a lot of Shallowness there and you might not have much more understanding than the folks in New Hampshire.

You know, it's funny because I've heard a similar we're looking at to Bible culture is assumed even though it might not be very deep. It's assumed up in the Northeast. It's not assumed tends to be it's not an expectation.

It's not like your grandmother took you to this and that's yes indeed.

And in fact, let me I get a little. I mean, this is a little off-topic. I just want to ask you briefly about the Evangelical Free Church commonly known as the Evie Free Church. I know that there was a time and and it wasn't that long ago because I knew pastors in the Evie Free Church in the 90s who were both.

Not the same people but there were pastors who were both Pato Baptist and credo Baptist or believer only Baptist or baptistic. In the denomination. Is that still true where you may have a pastor that believes and practices infant baptism or has that almost vanished?

Or has it completely vanished from the Evie Free Church?

It's funny that you mentioned that because I was actually just talking about points of doctrine with the Evie free and From what I didn't know this but it wasn't that it was widely practiced. But there was something I wanted to pry.

No, that is not a free church. The EFCA is funny because but by and large and I'll tell you Yeah, a lot of folks when they read the statement on our website say well that's great that you're Orthodox.

But I still don't really know what you believe. Yes, I know.

Evangelical free pastors who are thoroughgoing Calvinists people like DA Carson who teaches at the Trinity Evangelical Divinity School and and and I know pastors that are Thoroughly reformed. They would be barely distinguishable from Reformed Baptist and then I've met others that are vehement anti-calvinist.

And some some who are more dispensational. Some who view One's eschatology in a higher rung of importance than almost anything else. Yeah so it is it is an interesting denomination, but it basically came out of a Attempted Reformation from the Reformation right?

It was really people who had left Lutheranism and were trying to Get some kind of commonality According to the scriptures after leaving the Lutheran Church. Am I right? Yeah, that's right.

So they were they were coming out of state church. They did as they formed these churches for the EFCA if these are 1960s and of the EFCA as we know it. We know locally speaking. They are. Harvest Bible Church would not exist without the EFCA.

I mean they help plant us they help train people. Just really been a good group to be with.

And one more thing from what I remember in the denomination anyway, I don't know how much freedom they give to the congregations, but Baptism was not required for church membership. That was something that from what I have had at least with the pastors that I know personally.

They told me that a person could become a member of a congregation before they made the decision whether or not to be baptized.

Yeah, that's an that's a New Testament biblical. I mean, that's what you write to do. So, you know, I mean I would I would also there is that much Liberty where you can enforce something like that. That might that's why it's an affiliation not denomination because you know, nothing really is a lot of freedom and flexibility so you really have all the Connections and the resources and the and the kinship and unity a lot of freedom Individually church speaking as long as you don't do something outside.

Yeah, it's kind of the best of both worlds in my view.

Great. Well, one of our main themes Today is the American Puritans and we will get to that in a moment and obviously that's something near and dear to your heart. Since not only do you live in New England the heart of where the Puritans began.

In America of course, they had forefathers in England and so on but We want to talk about the g3 con. I mean, I'm sorry We are going to be talking about the g3 conference, but you're actually speaking at the Fellowship Conference, New England.

That's right. And if you could tell us about the the Fellowship Conference, New England, and I know that Year after year There has been a freedom for each speaker to basically choose his own topic. There was not one main theme at these conferences, which makes it a little more unusual than your average Bible conference.

But tell us about Fellowship Conference New England and perhaps if you know yet what you will be speaking about in August the conference.

I bumped into them. I was contacted by Mac Tomlin. He contact history and I think he had read my book invited me to come on. People dear people were very serious minded Christians. Just people who really a lot of areas that and I don't mean to say that snobby or anything like that.

You know be at theological or to going back. The emphasis is on fellowship. So they don't just have preaching and teaching they have meals and they have gathering and they pray together and it's just a lot of fun.

So that's going to be happening August. Terms of my sermon I'm thinking about exegeting all the genealogies of Chrono first Chronicles, but I'm not.

I mean, you know, I.

Don't know if anybody wants genealogical record exposited, but I know well with there's there are I hear there are Mormons up there.

That might be very interesting. I.

Mean frankly, you know, it's it is refreshing that you know when Matt called me, you know, I said, what do you want? I'm gonna preach on he says. Well, you know, whatever is near and dear to your heart and I'm like that could be really dangerous but For me and you know, probably nothing new apply that to the fact I might go an opportunity to preach.

We'll be repeating this later but the Fellowship Conference New England that Nate Pickowitz is talking about will be held August 2nd through the 4th at the Deering Center Community Church in Portland, Maine and The speakers along with pastor Nate Pickowitz include pastor Tim Conway.

Who is the pastor of Grace Community Church in San Antonio, Texas? Pastor Mac Tomlinson who pastor Nate just mentioned a dear friend of mine pastor of the Providence Chapel in Denton, Texas. Who have also been extremely fine?

Generous financially in supporting iron trip ins on radio when we thank God for them. They bailed us out of a very scary time recently when our finances had run dry. We can never thank pastor Mac and the folks there in Denton, Texas enough.

Pastor Jesse Barrington who was my Guest day before yesterday. He was our guest here on Tuesday. He is the pastor of Grace Life Church in Dallas, Texas, which is a sister church of Grace Life Church in Lake City, Florida.

Who run Grace Life Radio which airs iron sharpens iron radio every day Monday through Friday in a rerun format? They air us in morning drive time and evening drive time. So we're thrilled about that. And of course as I said pastor Nate Pickowitz is on that roster.

Go to fellowship conference newengland .com fellowship conference newengland .com for more details. We're going to our midway break right now. This is a longer break than we normally have because a grace life radio that I just mentioned.

They require a 12-minute break in between our two major segments. So I hope that you are patient with us. As we go on this elongated break, and I hope that you take this time to Not only write down the information That our our advertisers provide so that you can patronize them properly.

That's very important. If you want iron sharpens iron radio to remain on the air patronizing our advertisers is a very powerful way to do that because obviously if they're getting a Wonderful response from you folks.

They will more likely continue Keeping us on the air with their advertising dollars. But in addition to that write questions for our guest Nate Pickowitz at chris arnzen at gmail .com. Chris arnzen at gmail .com and Please give us your first name city and state and country of residence.

If you live outside the USA only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter, don't go away. We'll be right back after these messages with pastor Nate Pickowitz and the American Puritans Tired of box-store Christianity of doing church in a warehouse with all the trappings of a rock concert.

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