God Centered Podcast - Episode 18 - On The Road - God Centered Church - Exactly How Is An Elder Q...

God Centered Theology

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This is Andy Cain. It's a joy to be back with you once again. It is October 16th in the year of our

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Lord 2024 and I hope you're having a great day I want to talk to you today about God -centered church, and we're gonna do it specifically talking about pastoral qualifications

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We have a interesting situation in our world today where We love to put all these extra biblical qualifications on our pastors

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In fact, we've got such an Americanized version of the church that we value things above what

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Scripture does Now I don't doubt that people have honest intentions and they just you know, just to give an example, you know you can look and not everyone has this but for the most part just about pick a

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Job description quote -unquote of where someone's looking for a pastor if they have any size to them at all

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And you're gonna see you must have a master's degree and ten years of experience well

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And and it's usually listed first we you know qualifications or expectations of this candidate master's degree doctorate preferred

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Ten years of experience and sometimes they'll even say ten years of experience a large church because I think what happens is these

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Larger churches tend to think they're better than the other ones or think they deserve better than the other ones I I honestly don't know what people think is going to make someone better just simply because they have a master's or a doctorate and have a certain number of years of Experience because if you provide to them

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You know, I may not necessarily have a an official master's degree, but I have a wealth of education from self -study learning under proper mentors, you know

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Doing this doing that and you can have what was interesting, you know life experiences so Discounted you can tell them, you know

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I have all this experience and management and secular work history and you know

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Because one of the actual qualifications of a pastor is administrative leadership Not to just oversee paid staff as many of these will put it but to actually oversee that the entire church and you need to have

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Good administrative leadership for that And you can get that knowledge and those skills from working in secular environments and This is discounted

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It's it's really hard to express it and unless you've been in this world and understand it

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But it's really troubling when you have if you have a wealth of experience Working and things like that and you have a great amount of education

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You're you're able to teach you have a great resourcing of study in your mind from teaching

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Bible and teaching this and you know You you're every bit as qualified as any other qualified pastor

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And you turn in an application and you get rejected and say well, you don't meet our requirements and you're like, well What are you talking about?

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Well, we have to have a master's degree in ten years experience You only have this and that and this and that and you're just like, okay

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So I actually responded one one time that that did that I said, you know Copied the text from 1st

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Timothy 3 Titus 1 1st Peter 5 and different places and I was like, you know Here's the actual qualifications for pastor

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Which one of these are you saying I don't meet? Because we you know, and here's the thing before anybody does it because you know how it is in this world you say something and people assume you're

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Stating an extreme view and argue against that because we love the straw man stuff No, I'm not saying that education isn't important No, I'm not saying that it isn't good for a pastor to educate himself and to be continually learning what

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I am saying is that the apostles of Jesus Day and those early church fathers and the elders that Titus Appointed the elders that Paul appointed didn't have master's degrees.

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They didn't have doctorates You say oh, well times have changed. Well, I wasn't changed

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They wanted the qualifications for pastor elders to oversee

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God's Church not be employees for the church to work under the congregation or work under the deacons or under a personnel committee or whatever it is we've created in this world today because we've

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Really just adopted some horrible things But the reason the way you were to be qualified for an elder in Christ Church is roughly

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You know, it's hard to put a number on it, but I would just simply say the majority of the focus is on the moral qualifications

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Everything they're required to do when it comes to being, you know Calm and measured and humble and you know all these different things, you know

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Not given to money or wine all these different things. Those are requirements morally for all

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Christians The difference is if you're going to be given that level of authority it would behoove the people to make sure that the people they're considering are

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Demonstrating a Consistency in those qualifications over a period of time and that's sermon for another day, but it's a moral expectation

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Not a measure of one's level of education Or you know when he went there and when they appointed elders and all the towns and early church

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They didn't say well, you don't have ten years experience Because the church was new

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It was no way for him to have ten years experience or five years experience or whatever

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Arbitrary number we put on it. They said are you morally qualified? Are you the husband of one wife are you sexually pure you morally pure?

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Are you demonstrating the correct? level of moral qualifications and then yes, also

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You're required to have the spiritual gift of teaching which means you would have to be educated to a point in which you could faithfully

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Consistently teach the text of Scripture. And yes, you need to be able to demonstrate the ability to lead

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Now if you've got all that I don't care if you don't have a degree at all

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You're qualified. I don't care if you have zero years of pastoral experience

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You're qualified now having said that this is why a plurality of elders is so important because if you do have a new elder with no experience

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It would be much better for their development as an elder to be around More seasoned elders to watch their example to learn from them

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Because while I don't think you should require a doctorate to be a pastor I do firmly believe in continual education and continual learning and development and this can come it does not the idea that Education can only be formal education or somehow.

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It's not a qualified form of education is Foreign to Scripture it should be foreign to the church in an ideal situation

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Would be great if all of our elders had masters and doctors. Yes, sure I mean, that'd be great

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But take my life for example, you know, I didn't have money to go to school the first time around I went for a year or two and then it was upon me to pay for it

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And I couldn't you know, I didn't have anybody to help me out you know that has had a long history at food line and different things getting life experience and So and I did finally get around doing a bachelor's but nothing

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I do today I mean, it's no knock against Liberty. It's no knock against formal education But if I'm just being honest nothing

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I do today came from that bachelor's degree None of it the things

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I've learned the skills I've learned from you know Websites and video editing preaching teach all of it

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Came from just simply living life Looking at good examples Practicing my teaching

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Studying the Word of God to have a better range of understanding of things. None of it came from any formal education we've got to We don't need to get to the point where we say well, you just don't you know

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You don't have to have formal education, you know, and you know formal education is bad or something No, we don't need to do that either we but we need to be far more balanced because right now we're leading far too much to the extreme of Ignoring qualified elders and in some cases elders that would perform far better than those that have formal education

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There's some with formal education that aren't that good of an elder and there's some that are very good

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We've got to be more balanced. We've got to be looking for the right things And this is why it's so vitally important that we get our churches back to be an overseen by a plurality of biblically qualified elders so that we are raising up elders with our within the body of the church and Appointing them and not doing so much of this hiring from the outside and bringing in somebody three states over that you really don't know

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And but we don't bless God. They had a doctorate. I'm like you don't know them the key to appointing elders is is getting people that you know that you've seen over a period of years that have shown themselves to Qualified and able to perform the duties of an elder bringing in somebody from the outside.

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Well, yes, it can work sometimes doesn't and So we need to be focused on doing things biblically and the way you do it biblically is a plurality

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Multiple men that are qualified in this dog's. They say well, you gotta have Always here and you always hear from people that have power and don't want to lose it

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The checks and balances are scripture Everything is scripture scripture has the checks and balances in there

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If you have an elder that's sitting there's a process to deal with that if you have an elder that disqualifies himself

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You remove them. It doesn't change the fact that God has said he wants qualified elders overseeing his church

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He doesn't want the congregation to oversee it. He doesn't want deacons to oversee it He wants his elders to oversee it the job on us or on on those that are not elders

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Is you've got to make sure they're qualified and that qualification expectation

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Continues even after one is appointed. It's up to an elder to Continually ensure that they remain qualified and if they disqualify themselves, they should remove themselves

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You really you shouldn't even have to have a church remove that elder that elder should remove themselves

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I mean, that'd be great if you could have that level of You know awareness but We really need to get and I don't know that it will happen in my lifetime.

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I don't know if it will I really don't I've been on the sideline now for five years now.

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I haven't been on the sideline when it comes to Ministry, I still work and I do everything that I'm able to do take opportunities as I can.

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So I'm still able to Pastor as much as I can and And help in areas that I can however,

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I have been you know not in an official capacity pastoring for now over five years and There's a lot of reasons for that But the one that keeps popping up the most is well

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I don't have an either enough experience or don't have the right degree or in a lot of cases because I'm one of those evil

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Calvinist, you know reformed and You know, we just can't have that run around here, you know, so that very into that I've ran into oh, you know, you don't believe in all the calls.

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You must not believe and get people saved I'm like, yeah, that's not really why I don't support them.

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But okay, whatever Those are the kinds of things you run into and we've really really really

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I don't know what it'll take Smarter men than me might can figure this out

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But we have got to find a way to get our churches to repent Submit to scripture and for crying out loud

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I'm not saying rip up and tear up and get rid of the bylaws because we don't want to have any level of organization

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What I'm when I say we need to rip up tear up the bylaws and Constitution. What I'm saying is

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Not in the literal fashion But we need to rip up and tear up Constitution and bylaws as being the final authority in our churches

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It needs to be clearly dot because but bylaws and Constitution serve a purpose. They're legally required

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So we have them and they can be good a good legal measure to keep

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People from coming in wolves coming in and destroying the church But when it comes to God's people our ultimate allegiance is to scripture not bylaws and Constitution So if a bylaws and Constitution agrees with scripture

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The one is not really necessary because it's scripture you're going with and if they disagree with scripture you always go with scripture over to bylaws and Constitution, so they should never be looked at as Okay, this is how we do things and we do it because this is what our bylaws say

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No, we say this is how we do things and we do it because this is what scripture says and until churches repent bow the knee to Christ bow the knee to this and be obedient to scriptures and actually be willing to make actual effective changes

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To their bylaws and Constitution or to the way they do things to bring themselves into greater conformity to scripture

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Stop having these churches where you may have a pastor. That's a figurehead, you know on paper but really it's the deacons that run the church or the personnel committee that runs a church or the person with the most money that runs a church until we

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Effectively change cultures to where we have a plurality of elders to oversee

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Deacons are primarily responsible with the physical needs of the church and visiting and things like that Where and if needed they can call on the elders to come and pray if needed and then having the congregation there to make

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Disciples be discipled use their spiritual gifts edify one another everybody working in their proper roles

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And one of the largest reasons we can't do this is because churches are so bloated with Programs and ministry silos and that's the way we've always done it

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It may just take a lot of church planning and letting some of these other churches die out And it's just sad to say but this is where this is a symptom of it.

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The fact that we look at pastors as Okay, we need somebody that's got a high level of formal education and this that and the other and that's what's important No, you want somebody that if needed can weep over the scriptures that would be willing to bleed for the scriptures

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That even though it's not their sheep. It's Christ's sheep. They would defend the sheep that they are under shepherding for God Somebody that knows the scriptures is willing to admit

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They're wrong that knows how to minister and run his household Well, it knows how to administer and run the household of God correctly knows that if he has a person in a position of leadership

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That they delegated that to knowing to back off and let them lead It doesn't mean you've you've abandoned your oversight in that area

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But it means this person's got a good set of qualifications for this area Let them leave that area back off unless something major is going on that there's so much involved in all this

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But the bottom line is we have gotten so far away from the biblical method of Operating a church that now we've just assumed that the way things are is what the

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Bible says It's just not and a lot of people get mad at people like me when we say this

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But it's just true and you know people out of fear will say well you know what if you have a dictator pastor and this that and the other and I always say that's the reason that I have a plurality of elders because you know congregation has to be the overseers because you got all those mean evil pastors like well

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Why are you even going to church? If your default position is all pastors are evil then don't go and if you have an evil dictatorial pastor

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Guess what? They're not a pastor. They're not qualified So boot them out

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Get them out of the pulpit and take the time that's necessary to find genuine

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Qualified pastors that obey Christ obey his word and love God's people the right way

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Oversee them the right way Not in a lordship way but in a let me show you what we need to be doing because Christ said so kind of way and so Sorry for the longer on the road episode.

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These are usually five to ten minutes This one's knocking on the door of 20. But this this subject is really

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Bothered me lately because I'm right. There's so many people like me They're eager and ready and ready to go and we can't

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Because we've decided that we can only have it's a whole nother subject for another day But this idea that you can only have pastors on staff if they're paid positions and like if you have elders in your church

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You need to be using them in that capacity. That's what they're there for. And so it's just it's a sad state of affairs

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I'm thankful That we have so many people in our churches that care that want to make sure we get the right people leading the church

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But somewhere along line we've just lost our focus and we need to refocus ourselves. So anyway

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Normally, I do this from carpool to work in the morning, but I had some time here at lunch So I did this episode and I hope it was beneficial for you

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I hope that you hear my heart and this I hope you understand what I'm saying and you know People love to misrepresent stuff, but I think if you really listen to everything