October 5, 2017 Show with Justin Peters on “Do Not Hinder Them: A Biblical Examination of Childhood Conversion”

Live from the historic parsonage of 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron, a radio

platform on which pastors, Christian scholars and theologians address the burning issues

facing the church and the world today.

Proverbs 27 verse 17 tells us, iron sharpens iron so one

man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage, quote, we are cautioned to take heed whom we

converse with and directed to have in view in conversation to make one another

wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next hour, and we hope to hear

from you, the listener, with your own questions.

Now here's our host.

Good afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

This is Chris Zarnes and your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio wishing you all a happy Thursday on this fifth day

of October 2017.

And I'm so delighted after a very long absence to have as a returning guest today

Justin Peters.

Justin received his MDiv and his THM at Southwestern Baptist Theological

Seminary.

He's an evangelist and teacher having preached in 42 states and 23 countries.

He's an author, radio host, and founder of Justin Peters Ministries, which is committed to

expositional preaching and equipping believers to biblically engage false doctrine.

Today Justin Peters is going to address his new book, Do Not Hinder Them, a Biblical Examination

of Childhood Conversion.

And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron after a very long time, Justin Peters.

Hey Chris, it's so good to be back with you.

It was a pleasant surprise to get your call today,.

And thank you for this invitation.

It's my pleasure.

And if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com, C -H -R -I -S

-A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com.

Please give us your first name at least, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside of the

USA.

Only remain anonymous if it's about a personal and private matter over which you are asking.

And also, Justin Peters is going to be speaking at the upcoming G3 Conference in

Atlanta, Georgia, the G3 standing for Grace, Gospel, and Glory.

And that is a conference that has been conducted annually for a number of years by Pastor

Josh Bice and our friends at Praise Mill Baptist Church in Douglasville, Georgia.

And that's Praise spelled P -R -A -Y apostrophe S,

Mill Baptist Church, not like you might normally think it would be spelled because it's actually named after a

minister named Pray, or one of the founding members of that church, perhaps over a hundred years

ago, I believe.

But, Justin, if you could, I think it would be very helpful

for our listeners who have not heard you on Iron Trumpets Iron Radio or perhaps

for some reason they are unfamiliar with you and Justin Peters Ministries.

We do have listeners that are new believers that occasionally let us know that.

We even have listeners that are unbelievers.

Some of them are Muslims, some of them are Roman Catholics, some of them are from other backgrounds,

and some of them just have no religious conviction at all.

So, if you could, let our listeners who are unfamiliar with you know something about you, the

religion of your childhood, and how our Lord providentially drew you to Himself and saved you.

Yes, great.

And, Ray, I

made a profession of faith at a very young age, seven years old.

I say very young, that's not typical

for children to make a profession of faith at five, six years of

age.

In fact, if you're nine years of age and you have not made a profession of faith in the Southern

Episcopal denomination, you're over the hill.

So, but I did, but I was not truly converted.

And you mentioned in my book, I Do Not Hinder Them, a Biblical Examination of Childhood Conversion.

There's a big difference between a childlike faith and

a childish, I believe, the basics of gospel.

But that's not saving faith in and of itself.

It's not the totality of it.

I did not come to genuine saving faith much, much, much

later.

Actually, even after I graduated from seminary, when

I came, I had

an inherent contradiction within the gospel.

On the one hand, I understood that salvation is not of works.

I mean, I got that.

To earn your way into heaven, that makes

sense, is that even though we would affirm salvation by

grace through faith saved, you have

to

repent.

Now, you

either

have

not

been to

by God,

God,

preacher.

I'm

not

a pastor.

No, no, no.

And in fact, you and I have a mutual friend, and that is the nephew of one of those

infamous names that you mentioned, Costi Hinn, the nephew of Benny Hinn, who

actually repented of the Word of Faith gospel, which he now very

openly and frequently and strongly declares is a false

gospel, the Word of Faith movement, or should I say, it possesses a false gospel and

proclaims a false gospel.

And he is now, by the grace of God, not only a cessationist in his

pneumatology, but he is a thoroughgoing believer in the doctrines of God's sovereign grace and

a really biblically orthodox preacher and pastor and teacher.

And it was such a joy to have him on my program, Iron Trip and Zion.

It was also a joy to watch the YouTube of you interviewing Costi.

Hi, dear friends.

And I just can't tell you, he contacted me, called me

December 28, 29.

Long story short, we made contact with one another,

and he has just become one of my dear friends.

What a good brother.

He loves the Lord.

He was, as you said, he was enmeshed in this heresy.

In fact, he goes, he's

very clear for his uncle in Benny

Hinn's miracle crusades.

In fact, he and I have been in some

of the very same Benny Hinn crusades together.

Oh, no.

On different sides of the theological spectrum on the issue at the time,

but God saved him graciously.

He did

exactly what,

but so encouragingly, because that's what you,

and one

of

the great

ironies.

Amen.

Amen.

And I look

forward

to having him

back on

the

program.

He is returning to Iron Trip and Zion Radio, and I'm eagerly looking forward to that.

He's going to be discussing the history of the Word of Faith movement.

The last time he was on, he was primarily giving his own personal testimony.

And by the way, although I think that you're correct that a lot of Word of Faith

movement adherents would think that you and I and other cessationists

have a low view of the Holy Spirit, I'm not sure if Kosti's uncle would

think that, because, and you might think this is a strange thing to say, but you'll quickly know why I'm saying it.

Kosti, I don't know if he told you this, but he admitted on my show that his uncle, he is

absolutely certain, and he has compelling evidence that he did not disclose on my program,

but he is certain, Kosti is certain, that his uncle is a knowing charlatan.

It's not that he is just deceived by a false teaching himself.

Kosti is absolutely certain that he is a knowing and conscious

charlatan and deceiver.

So, Benny Hinn might not look at us in any odd way theologically,

because it appears that he may not even believe a lot of the things that he does himself.

Yeah.

Which is a tragedy, obviously, for many millions that have been seduced by him.

That's right.

I remember you saying that, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, quite a bit about it.

Do these

prosper

at the

same

time?

They are

all

second

ten of the

three.

There

are

people out

there.

Yes.

One person that I know personally very well who was caught up in that, and was even a pastor in the

Word of Faith movement, and not only that, he was a talk show host on TBN.

He was one of those individuals that was not knowingly deceiving people.

He actually believed this stuff, although the adherents of the Word of Faith

movement are not a cookie cutter of one another.

He didn't buy into some of the more bizarre theological

beliefs, hook, line, and sinker, like Jesus becoming a demonic entity on the

cross, and very blasphemous things like that.

But my friend, who's also a mutual friend of Kosti, John Sampson, he is now

pastoring a Reformed Baptist church in Arizona, the King's Church, or

King's Church, I should say.

He is not only theologically Reformed now, but he is also a cessationist as well.

For our listeners, would you say that an appropriate definition of a cessationist is

a belief that the sign gifts have ceased with the apostolic era, with the ending of the

apostolic era?

Yeah, and I'm glad you're helping

this misunderstanding.

Well,

there's

one

person

that I

don't

think is

a

charlatan,

actually.

He

owns a

barbecue.

Place locally, and he got my waist to grow about 10 inches.

Just kidding.

Yeah, in fact, they typically avoid the plague, even

people at their own.

Healing services that are clearly people in that category, in wheelchairs,

missing limbs, and things like that.

In fact, Johnny Erickson Tada, in her testimony, says that she was avoided at a healing service when she,

not long after she had that horrible accident that left her a quadriplegic.

She went to some healing services and was avoided like the plague because they knew that they could

not heal her, and this would be a more vivid evidence that they couldn't heal because she was

truly and obviously a quadriplegic in a wheelchair.

That's right.

And today, she is.

Just

like we

are, a

cessationist.

Yeah, a

lot

of healing.

And

they could never

fall back on.

Accusing someone with Down syndrome of having a lack of faith,

because some of those Christians that I have met who have Down syndrome put my faith to shame.

I mean, if they were up there believing fully in what was supposed to happen, they could not fall back.

I'm saying the faith healers, the so -called faith healers, could not fall back on blaming the one who

has the ailment.

And by the way, you haven't really discussed yet your own particular personal

affirmity.

Yeah,

in fact,

I was just...

I mean, I

can...

Yeah,

well, I already

know that I

definitely

have

to have you back again in the future

to.

Give a fuller treatment of your book, the new book that you've written, that we will be discussing in our following half

hour coming up after the break, Do Not Hinder Them, a biblical examination of childhood conversion.

But since it was so long since I had you on the program, I thought it was very important to give this side of your life.

And this is the very reason that you mentioned the infirmity that you were born with is one of the

major reasons that you specifically are seeking to expose the Word of

Faith movement, because they are doing such harm, not only physically, perhaps deceiving

people into believing that they're well and healed when they still have, perhaps, a deadly or terminal disease, but

also mentally and emotionally and spiritually.

And this is one of the core reasons that you have set out on a mission to expose these individuals, am I correct?

Yes, not only is there harm being

done to people's

financial gain, but

that's...

We're going to go to a brief break right now, and when we come back, we're actually going to be discussing the book, the new

book by Justin Peters, Do Not Hinder Them, a biblical examination of childhood conversion.

If you'd like to join us on the air with a question, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson

at gmail .com.

Don't go away, God willing, we will be right back after these brief messages with Justin Peters.

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And one of those voices that you heard,.

Not the last one, but the one before that, to the person imitating Charles Haddon Spurgeon, is

the brother I was just mentioning earlier to our guest Justin Peters, John Sampson, who is originally from

England and now pastors King's Church in Peoria, Arizona, a Reformed Baptist congregation.

And as I was saying earlier, Pastor Sampson was an adherent of the Word of Faith movement at one time.

In fact, not only an adherent, but a pastor and a talk show host on TBN

representing that heresy.

And he came to, by God's sovereign grace, the doctrines of God's sovereign grace

and also a cessationist position on pneumatology.

And he has a wonderful and growing church there in Peoria, Arizona.

We are interviewing right now Justin Peters, the founder of Justin Peters Ministries,

and we are discussing his new book, Do Not Hinder Them, a biblical examination of childhood

conversion.

And if you'd like to join us on the air, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com, chrisarnson at gmail .com.

We do have a few people already waiting to have their questions asked and answered, but I want to get a little bit into this

discussion before I read their questions.

And even before we go into the subject, Justin, I know that you are one of the featured speakers at the

upcoming G3 conference, which is being held in Atlanta, Georgia.

And that is the 18th through the 20th of January when that conference will be held on the theme,

Knowing God, a Biblical Understanding of Discipleship.

Do you know yet what your topic under that umbrella, that main theme I just

mentioned, what your specific theme personally.

Is going to be

there?

Yes, that's exactly what I asked.

Okay.

Yes, I will be giving a very brief overview of my seminar, Clouds Without

Water,

eight hours of teaching into a bird's -eye view

of the outlining some of the major heresies in the little

God's guaranteed

promise of money and healing.

And God does and does not speak

to us, those

kinds of things.

But yeah, I'll have video clips of

these individuals.

I have

video clips,

seminars.

It's not just me saying, well, Benny and Sid

have the video

clips.

Perfect.

And that's what we'll be doing.

And if anybody wants more.

Information on registering for the G3 conference, again, that's January 18th through the 20th in Atlanta, Georgia,

go to G3conference .com.

G3conference .com.

The G3 stands for Grace, Gospel, and Glory.

I will be there, God willing, again with an Iron Sharpens Iron radio exhibitors booth, thanks to my friend Josh

Bice and the folks at Praise Mill Baptist Church in Douglasville, Georgia, and also thanks to my

sponsors, BatteryDepot .com and Lindbrook Baptist Church on Long Island, New

York, and also the publishers of the New American Standard Bible who are paying

for my travel for these various conferences and events where I am manning an exhibitors

booth for Iron Sharpens Iron radio.

But we'll be giving you more details about the G3 conference later on in the program during the second

hour.

Now, this book, this new book, Do Not Hinder Them, it seems to be a few

steps away from the main focus of your ministry, obviously, and I think it might be helpful and

important for you to give us a little explanation on where you are in

regard to the biblical ordinance of baptism because of the fact that there

are very good friends and brothers and sisters in the Pato Baptist community, those that

believe in infant baptism, who say that all Baptists are hindering

children, and they will very often use the quote from Jesus Christ himself

when he was blessing children and he was rebuking those that were hindering children to come to him.

But if you could tell us where you specifically are coming from and what kind of a church you are a member of, etc.

Sure,

sure,

Chris.

I am a

non -denominational

church of grace.

Theologically, we would call

Baptistic.

What's that?

Baptistic.

You believe in credo baptism or the baptism of believers only, correct?

In regards to

baptism, yes, I do believe

that adopted into the family.

Now, as you said,

there are, not that

it's

misleading,

but

maybe

counterintuitive.

It becomes very little different from being a Pato Baptist because just as a

Pato Baptist, when they baptize an infant, there is no evidence of repentance and

faith in that infant, and the same is going very often with those in the

Bible Belt, especially, it seems, who have a Baptistic understanding of the ordinance.

They are automatically very often baptizing their children regardless of any

evidence of repentance and faith just because they turn a certain age.

Exactly, exactly.

As Baptists, we don't.

And it is interesting.

They are basically Pato Baptists literally because the term actually just means

child baptism.

It doesn't even mean infant baptism.

So even though we use it that way, we use it to identify infant baptism.

One in

five, six, to be baptized

in the Gospel, but a lot of six, seven, eight

-year -old children believe in Santa Claus.

Think about that.

Intellectual capacity allows

on one night on a sled by a team of flying reindeer.

We're going to trust that same child whose intellectual capacity allows for belief in something like that.

We're going to trust that same child.

Eternity?

Taking up the cross?

You know, I believe that baptizing

is one of the most dramatic departures that evangelicalism,

what we see in the New Testament.

I mean, you look through the New Testament, you won't find any children being baptized.

They're just not there.

No children are baptized.

No children are even referred to as disciples because saving,

the language of salvation in the

New

Testament

requires,

if salvation, if God does, then

that young person does not get it.

And there should be a change, a

market, a godly sorrow,

a desire for hope, a

love for the bread.

I'm not

saying

encourage parents.

Absolutely.

Teach them God's Word.

Teach them the Gospel.

Encourage them.

You don't want to discourage them.

If they profess faith in Christ, you want to encourage

that.

Go ahead.

I was just going to say, I

think.

Apostle Paul spoke to this, even though he wasn't specifically addressing baptism.

I think his words are very powerful and very appropriate for this discussion.

In 1 Corinthians 13, verse 11, he says,.

When I was a child, I used to speak like a child, think like a child, reason like a

child.

When I became a man, I did away with childish things.

So the thing that would be odd is that if you're baptizing a person at a stage

in their life when they are still holding on to childish things, and

therefore they're not really counting the cost, they're not really absorbing mentally what it really means

to repent and believe upon Christ, they may have some very basic understanding of who Jesus is.

But another thing, wouldn't you say that the reason why a child's

profession is very suspect is because children of Christians,

in fact children of anyone, are likely going to be parroting what their parents and

what their siblings say.

Just because a child sings at church, Jesus loves me, this I know, or the Bible tells me so,

doesn't really mean that that child understands who Jesus is, doesn't mean that he understands, or she, I should say

also, doesn't mean that they understand what the sacrifice on Calvary.

Really

meant,

etc.

Am I

correct

on

this?

Well we

better

go to

the

listener

questions.

So we.

Could get as many as we possibly can before you go off the air.

David in Ada, Ohio, he asks a question that has divided Christians for

centuries and even still divides Christians in the same theological camp

and possibly in the same pew at church.

Where do infants go when they die before conversion and or before they are old enough to know the

difference between good and evil?

Yeah, a great question.

Not everyone, yes,

children, I

believe in original sin.

I believe that when a child, a baby,

a miscarriage, an abortion, a baby who dies, a child, a young child who dies,

I believe that they go to heaven.

They are saved the same way we are, by grace, but God just extends

his grace to them.

John MacArthur has a good book on that subject, by the way, as well, entitled Safe in the Heart, and

he deals with it much better.

Yes, and obviously, and by the way, I agree with you on that, and Charles Spurgeon agreed with you on that, and

in addition to a contemporary voice like John MacArthur, Al Mohler agrees with you on that.

And obviously, that doesn't prove anything, but you're in good company when Charles Spurgeon and John MacArthur and Al Mohler are

in agreement with you.

But this would also imply that these children were of the elect, that

God permitted them to die without faith because they were

already, before the foundation of the world, among his elect, and therefore were ushered into.

His arms at the moment of death.

No one's death,

miscarriages,

there had to be,

you add that number.

Up, there's going to be a lot of people, a lot of people in heaven.

Amen, and of course, David knew that his son, who died as a chastisement from his adultery

and murder, his adultery with Bathsheba and his murder of Uriah the Hittite, that baby

that was born from adultery died as a result of God's chastisement.

But David knew that he would return to that child.

Yes.

And I can't see how that could mean the grave as many protests, because how is that something that gave him comfort?

I have no idea.

But we have David,

another David, this one in Bakersfield, California, and I have to enlarge David's

email because the font is microscopic, and I'm 56 years old in need of new glasses.

Well, I'll be 56, I'm 55, I'm aging myself, I'll be 56 in February.

David, I'm sorry, it's not David, it's Daniel in Bakersfield, California.

My question for Justin is, I have two children of my own, one is six and the other is three.

I try to constantly remind them that we are all sinners and we need Jesus as our Savior, but I

don't lead the conversation into any sort of sinner's prayer with them.

I was wondering how much should I motivate them to make a confession, or should I motivate them at

all?

Should I just share the gospel with them until they ask about how they can repent?

I don't want to push them into a false notion of salvation.

A good question.

I think

they're okay.

They may be

living in a

vigil

on repentant

sins,

or to doubt about my salvation, I go back and I look at that date.

Nope, don't need to doubt my salvation.

We

have Joe in

Slovenia.

Thanks

so much for

having Justin

Peters.

He is

one

of my.

Favorite polemicists.

I work weekly with a child evangelism fellowship, Good News Club for Children.

As part of each week's program, an evangelistic Bible story is presented to the children.

Usually, it is mildly to overtly synergistic, depending on who is making the presentation.

This, as you would expect, is accomplished by using Bible passages out of context and applying them generally to all people

indiscriminately instead of contextually.

What type of advice and coaching would you give about how to present the gospel to children without

engaging in semi -Pelagianism, Arminianism, or decisionism?

How would one go about talking to other presenters concerning this issue toward the goal of helping them

tone down or eliminate.

The synergism?

Yeah,

well, I recoil.

We knew this

11 -year -old boy, and we were at a church for

Sunday a couple years ago, and he preached a graphic message on a

tribulation school.

The parents of this young,

they were considered, and

then you

just, when the

time

is

right, when that

Galatians 1, 15,

to reveal Christ.

We

have

one last

question

that

we

have

time

for.

Abraham in Meridian, Idaho.

Abraham says, what resource or resources would you recommend to disciple a child who has demonstrated an

openness to the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ?

I'm in a situation where a senior pastor has pressured us for my 11 -year -old son not

being baptized.

Unfortunately, we have at least 10 children in our congregation that have had been baptized at age eight,

so if you could respond to that as briefly as you can, and I know that you have to leave early today, so that is our final

question that we have time for.

There's some great resources.

Available.

I'm

in

a situation where a senior pastor has pressured us for my 11 -year -old son.

Not being baptized.

Well, obviously, I think you would agree with that, and he says, unfortunately, we have at least 10 children in our congregation that had been

baptized at age eight, so it seems like this person's child or children are being

singled out.

Yeah, see, that's unfortunate, too.

If I were a

pastor,

I'd say, no matter what, we're not going to baptize anybody under this age, and that takes

that issue that you just mentioned off the table, so it'll take away the potential for

disagreement and hurt feelings and say, oh, well, you baptized.

My little Johnny.

Because little Johnny set fire to the church.

Exactly.

But yes, set a minimum age, and that takes away as

far as, just don't baptize any child

under age, say,

and then before they baptize anyone

for a 70 -year -old man, have that person is

not give a testimony about how they came to saving faith in Christ,

about how Christ has changed them, then they're not ready to be baptized.

Have them give a testimony.

You accept him as your personal, well, I baptized you.

No, that's not a profession.

Have that person, and I guarantee you, if you require people to

write it out, that's

fine, perfectly fine, if they're nervous, that's understandable, but have them, if they can't write out a

testimony, if they can't give their testimony, then they're not ready to be baptized, and if you require people

to give their testimony, that will

weaken them.

What an encouragement.

I can't tell you how encouraged I've

been.

It honors the gospel.

Well, I thank you so much for staying with us.

Five minutes over the time you agreed to, Justin, and if anybody wants to find out more about Justin Peters'

website, it's justinpeters .org, justinpeters .org.

I would love to have you come back very soon to give a more thorough treatment of your book and even to discuss the Word of Faith

movement and many other things, Justin, so keep an eye open for an email from me inviting you back.

I'd love to do it, Chris, anytime, brother.

Thank you.

Well, thank you for being such a wonderful guest again today.

God bless you, brother.

God bless you, too.

Bye -bye.

And I hope that you all stay tuned.

Don't go away, because for the next hour, the second hour of Radio, we are going to be joined, God willing, by

Mike Gaydosch, my very first pastor as a born -again believer, who is also the

founder of Solid Ground Christian Books.

We're going to be hearing an update from him on how he made it through the recent hurricane in Florida,

which is his new home and new location for the headquarters of Solid Ground Christian Books, and we'll be

hearing about new books that he has in print, whether they are reprints of old books or new books

by contemporary authors.

So please don't go away, because God willing, we're going to be right back with Mike Gaydosch of Solid Ground

Christian Books.

Paul wrote to the church at Galatia, For am I now seeking the approval of man, or of God?

Or am I trying to please man?

If I were still trying to please man, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Hi, I'm Mark Lukens, pastor of Providence Baptist Church.

We are a Reformed Baptist Church, and we hold to the London Baptist Confession of Faith of 1689.

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Welcome back, and the founder of Solid Ground Christian Books, Mike Gadosh is here with

us for our final hour of today's Iron Sharpens Iron broadcast, and we will be joining him for a

discussion in a moment.

But first, we have just a couple of important announcements to make in regard to special events being

conducted by some of our sponsors, the first of which would be my event that I'm having

Thursday, October 26th at the Carlisle Fire and Rescue Banquet Hall

in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

That's the Iron Sharpens Iron Pastor's Luncheon, and this one is in honor of the 500th anniversary

of the Protestant Reformation.

This will feature keynote speaker Pastor Bill Shishko, who is regional home missionary for

Reformation Metro New York.

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which you hear daily on Iron Sharpens Iron Radio.

He's also the retired pastor of the Orthodox Presbyterian Church of Franklin Square, Long Island, New York, and a dear

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This is a free event from beginning to end.

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only will you be fed physically with delicious food for free and spiritually with a message from Bill Shishko for free,

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If you'd like to register for this pastor's luncheon, you must be a man in ministry leadership, whether you

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whatever kind of man in ministry leadership you happen to be, just send me an email to chrisarnson at gmail .com,

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And then coming up in November from the 17th through the 18th, the Quaker

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That's November 17th through the 18th at the Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Quaker Town,

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And if you'd like to register for that event, go to alliancenet .org, alliancenet .org, click on events,

and then click on Quaker Town Conference on Reform Theology.

Last but not least is that event that I mentioned earlier where Justin Peters will be on the roster

of speakers.

That's the G3 Conference that's being held January 17th through the 20th, January

17th being exclusively a Spanish -speaking edition of the conference, and the 18th through the 20th being exclusively

an English -speaking edition of the conference on the theme, Knowing God, A Biblical Understanding of Discipleship.

The speakers include Stephen Lawson, Votie Baucom, Phil Johnson, Keith Getty, H .B. Charles Jr., Tim Chalies,

Josh Bice, James White, Tom Askell, Anthony Metheny, Michael Kruger, David Miller, Paul Tripp, Todd Friel, Derek

Thomas, Martha Peace, and Justin Peters, who we just had on for the first hour.

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The advertisers who have been keeping Iron Sharpens Iron Radio on the air for quite some time have asked me,

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Now, we are finally back to the program, and we are going to beginning a discussion with my friend,

my very first pastor as a born -again believer, Mike Gaydosh, who is also the founder of Solid

Ground Christian Books, and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you back to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Mike Gaydosh.

Well, thank you, Brother Chris.

I appreciate your ministry and the opportunity to be able to to be on today.

I'm glad to be able to follow Justin Peters and his focus on ministering to

the children.

I was actually thinking about the many, many books that I have published for children,

a slew of them that I would like to be able to mention at 40 minutes or

so.

Okay, if I do this?

Oh yeah, quite all right.

Okay, what I'd like to do, the first thing I'd like to do is feature the books of Thomas

Hopkins Gallaudet, or Gallaudet.

He is known to the university in Washington, D

.C. that is for the education of the deaf.

In our country, Gallaudet was the first man to bring deaf education

to America back in the early 1820s, and after he had

established that firmly, he began to focus his attention on writing books for the young,

and he has some

The Child's Book on the Soul, The Child's Book on... The Child's

Book,

many, many people.

In fact, I wanted to give you a sample series

that I've published of his called Scripture Biographies for the Young, and he

has...

The first five are in order, beginning with Adam and going the

last, and

I wanted to give your readers, your listeners, of his writing to children

from the

story into slavery, and have returned with

the...

Dipped in blood, and of course, they allow their father to make the assumption that he had been killed

by a wild beast, and then we are told that the sons and daughter, he

refused to be comforted.

Then this is what Gallaudet is trying to comfort him for the loss of Joseph, whom

they themselves had sold into bondage and sent far away from his affectionate father.

They, pretending to mingle their sorrow, secretly

rejoicing at the event which occasioned it.

They, endeavoring to allay his grief, when the deception which they had practiced was the reason

why the grief was so excessive.

They, calling upon him to dry up his tears, when they had it in their power, by simply telling him that

Joseph was yet alive, to furnish a consolation, which Jacob came with

with tears of joy.

What base deceivers, what ungrateful, and

how is their guilt increasing, and how great must be the displeasure of God.

You see in all this your own danger, and this is he turns from

the deception.

If you go on indulging sinful thoughts and feelings,

think especially of one striking thing which marked the progress in

guilt.

I mean their resort to deception and forfeit.

Remember that those who are guilty of wicked conduct wish and strive to conceal it.

Have you not always found it to be so?

When you have said or done anything which you knew to be wrong, but those who wish to conceal their evil conduct

are strongly tempted to do this by some kind of artifice or even by a downright

lie.

You know it is a common, it is

equally true that those who commit wickedness of whatever kind and tell a

falsehood rather than be detected.

How mean and cowardly as well as sinful lying lips are

they that deal truly are his delight.

Liars shall have their portion in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone.

Fear then to sin, fear all wicked thoughts and feelings, for these will

lead you to deceive.

And if in your opinion there is great danger of detection, to lie.

There's no security against this, but in loving and obeying God.

Have you a heart thus disposed to love and obey sons of

Jacob from

their evil hearts?

Wow, powerful stuff.

He just wrote, I think his having learned to teach the deaf,

which necessitates is what

prepared him to write these books that he wrote in using language and terms

that would communicate to the young.

And I just have found

that probably along with the child's book on the fall has

sold the most of

all of his book.

Back in the early 1800s he lived from 1787 until.

And you know I'd like to before I have to interrupt you in mid

-sentence.

I'd like to go to our final brief, which is a final break, which is just two commercials and then I'll let you come

back and promote any of the other books that you wanted to highlight today.

And this will be our final break.

If anybody would like to join us on the air with a question, our email address is chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Chrisarnson at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

God.

Willing, we'll be right back after these final messages.

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Welcome back.

This is Chris Sorensen.

If you just tuned us in, our guest for the final hour of the program with about 31 minutes to go is

Mike Gaydosh, my very first pastor as a born -again believer in Christ.

He is also the founder and director of Solid Ground Christian Books, and we are

discussing books that he has available in print, both from the past and

also from contemporary Christian authors.

If you'd like to join us on the air with an email, with a question, our email address is chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Chrisarnsen at gmail .com.

Before we go into any more books, I just wanted to get an update from you on how you weathered

through the recent hurricane down there in Florida in your new home.

It's ironic that you moved there, and a week later you get hit with a massive.

Hurricane, but if you could tell us about that.

Yeah, it was a nice welcome to Florida.

We and closed on the house here, and less than two weeks later

we're hearing, and

it did,

we didn't even lose a

shade, no water

damage at

all,

almost 10 days, and so 12 years.

It's not shocking under the circumstances to

keep working and producing work.

My wife is now alongside of me and is doing a great job.

Our office is better.

Well, yeah, and that's an

extra.

Motivation for our listeners to purchase books from Solid Ground Christian Books to help you overcome

the loss from that month, the worst sales month in your history.

So please, if you're listening, with all the holidays coming up, please go to solid -ground

-books .com, solid -ground -books .com and order all of your

gifts, or at least a lot of them, from Solid Ground Christian Books.

They have a huge assortment there, and one thing that you can count on is that you don't have to worry about getting some bizarre

or heretical book from Solid Ground Christian Books.

It's all very solid, as the title indicates, as the name indicates, but

since you're talking about books for youth, now this book that I'm

going to mention is a book for young and old, but it is intended for youth or young men in specific.

Thoughts for Young Men.

Actually, he's not a member of Grace

Baptist Church here in Carlisle, but he was here for, I believe, a year or close to a year

doing some work with the local war college, but Lieutenant Colonel Kevin Gerard,

who's a United States Marine and is also a co -pastor, along with Ray Rhodes, who I know that you

are familiar with.

Oh, yes, of course.

And he was blown away by your edition of Thoughts for Young Men, and I actually

reminded him, or informed him, I should say, for the first time, did you know that the Solid Ground Christian Books, or Mike

Gaydosh specifically, was the first to take that

work for young men out of a larger work by J .C. Ryle and put it separately in its

own book form.

And he is thrilled with it, he loves the cover with the.

Marines and so on.

Yeah, that was involved in publishing,

and I had been

using the material Thoughts for Young Men,

the upper room, and unfortunately, because

that volume was so huge and was filled with a whole bunch of different articles, the young men for whom

I decided to do a

standalone piece, which originally it was done from back

in the 1800s, and

obviously, it

originally was found thanks

to copies back

in 1991, the beginning of 91, and all 10 ,000 copies sold the first six

months.

And I've shared with you

before that we

had published

many, many other publications, but I'm thankful that we were the

first ones, and at least the first ones in probably 100 years,

that it is.

I'm thankful for the cover, one of whom is mine,

that we had begun from a chaplain who was in Afghanistan at

copies of Thoughts for Young Men, and I was in need of doing a new print run and decided that that would be a

great time to do, not just a new one

for my son, when

he

had

published and

had been really, really

both young and old alike.

The first one is John Todd

v. 3.

His theology was molded by

Memorial Church.

John Todd, and

what he did is he

began to have children on Sunday night,

one Sunday night a month.

He would dedicate the evening service,

ordinarily thought of as a full -blown

church, and

God used those coming books.

And Todd was determined to speak to the hearts of the children and to the

young people, and so on that particular night each month, he would make sure that the

adults would have to stay all the way in the back.

He didn't want, he said he didn't, he feared that if he looked upon them that he would be tempted

to speak directly to them and not to the church.

He even made sure in the front and

the messages that he,

another one that I published is called Truth Made Simple, Lectures for Children on the Attributes of God, and

he just has some very hearty messages on,

is there a God, is God eternal,

God everywhere, God

Truth

Made

Simple, which is

a base.

And the second man I wanted to mention, Richard Newton,

actually learned how to teach.

He was

a young man, he was only 20 or 21, he was asked to serve as a Sunday school superintendent, and

he didn't even really know what it involved,

his

responsibility

for a

Sunday

school,

and he

had a

hundred

children that would pack the church,

and he would pre -sermon, and his sermons were

so greatly blessed that the children begged him to, and I have now since,

and Bible

warnings, Bible animals,

well not just for children, but really for any, I

would walk around in my neighborhood in Alabama,

I would have tears streaming down my face when he said he would be telling,

illustrating, and

Richard Newton became known, and for, that is,

did

Spurgeon already have, while he was alive, the nickname, the Prince of Preachers?

Oh yeah, yeah, he was

alive, Richard Newton lived from 1813,

years later,

after reading his book,

Preachers to the Young.

I first learned about it, in fact, it's funny, you mentioned Bill

Shishko, and back

in 1981, when I first went back to New York, and he had just come,

and I was in Amityville,

and Blakey,

in that book, is the one who met, he had a whole chapter on

ministry to children, and in that, he had a two

Americans who had a peculiar gift at reaching children, and the one was J.

Todd, and the other was R. Newton.

Well, J. Todd, I already knew, because I'd already published the book by John Todd.

R. Newton, I didn't know, and so I did some research and found out it was Richard Newton, and

it was Blakey that I actually started finding these old, old copies of

Newton's books, and started to read them, and in one of the books

that I got was The Life of Jesus Christ for the Young, which was actually a four -volume work,

which I've published in two volumes, and in the frontispiece of that was a picture of Newton,

and above it was the words, The Prince of Preachers to

Children.

Newton is

just a book, Heroes of

the Early Church, an amazing book.

He has a book, Heroes of the Reformation and Heroes of the Early Church, and both of them

are, again, these were messages to

children of his church.

We do have a

listener, C .J. from Lindenhurst,.

Long Island, New York, who says, I have heard some of my Presbyterian and other Paedo

-Baptist brethren protest against viewing their children as a mission

field, since they believe they are in the Covenant.

While I understand the dangers, on the one hand, that Justin Peters was discussing during the first hour

in regard to pressuring young children into making, quote -unquote, decisions for Christ, on the other

hand, I think it is dangerous to view our children as being among

God's people in the Covenant, and not viewing them as a mission field.

What are your.

Thoughts on this?

Well, I'm a Reformed Baptist by conviction, and I believe that

the responsibility that we have to bring

the Gospel to be raised in the atmosphere of the Gospel, and I know

many Presbyterians who would have the need

to bring the Gospel to their children.

There are disagreements amongst regarding this matter.

Yeah, Dr. Joel Beeke, who is more from the Netherlands Reformed.

Community, he is very much adamant that children must be viewed as a

mission field, and he's a.

Paedo -Baptist as well.

Yeah, I know, and so I think it's dangerous not

to view the children in that way, just

Baptism

of the Lord, and

you'll be bringing the Gospel to them.

One of the things

is J .C.

Riles.

I don't even, I'm not

even able, if you can

get them

to, amazing.

And what Riles does in those volumes,

they were intended,

in which he had,

was books, the

volumes, because

there are several volumes,

same length when you read them.

They're about 12 to 15 minutes in length, and one of the things that he says,

Riles was a Paedo -Baptist.

Yeah, an Anglican.

But one of the things that he did, and I

tell you,

you can

read them as well as

a fan.

At

the same time, Ray Rhodes has published

three volumes to

the year, trilogy

that we've

over November,

December.

It

really

is the perfect

time to dive into.

We have another listener in Mechanicsburg, Harrison, who says,.

Are there any biblical topics that you believe are taboo when reading

biblical stories to young children, preteen children specifically, such as

Sodom and Gomorrah, the issue of hell itself, and other issues that

might be frightening?

Should we be still bold with young children,.

Because they are very vital and important biblical truths?

Good question.

The

one that was,

he puts a caveat and explanation as to why

he didn't teach with the

young audience that he had in mind.

They got older, he

would, I

mean, there

are aspects

you don't need to go into great detail on in terms of

God.

That's something we have to

deal with,

really, the

importance of the God, rooted in, as Romans chapter 1,

verse 18,

chapter 1, verses 16 and 17.

And then he gives the reason in chapter 1, verse 18, for the wrath of God is

present tense being revealed from heaven against all ungodliness.

You can hardly imagine there being a time when,

again, you don't have,

is only fully understood.

God's love are only understood with the backdrop of the velvet of

care,

yes, and care of your own children.

You have responsibility with your own children of seeking to find when's the right time to talk.

But when you're dealing with other people's children, like

if you were

teaching

understanding of the past, I think

it's a good idea to read men like Newton and Todd and

see how very wise, and

there's a

series of sermons on systematic theology for the young.

J .C. Ryle actually contributed to this book, along with Alexander Fletcher.

Alexander Fletcher knew

heart,

the

warnings of

resurrection,

and the judgment.

Just seeing the way that these men handled these two.

I think my

favorite of all your.

Volumes for children is superlapsarianism for kids.

No, that wasn't mine, Chris.

That was probably, was that Buzz?

Maybe Buzz did that one, I'm not sure.

We have B .B. in Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, who wants to know your position on

illustrated books for children that include pictures of Jesus Christ.

Yeah, that's another good question.

I'm very careful, try to avoid

pictures of Jesus,

careful of from the

commandment that we're not to make

any image, but again, I know

good

pictures as long as they are, I mean, I know that some have done pictures that

are generic, or some that maybe only have,

because he was a man,

to avoid having any image at all that pictures him

as a man.

Or very

Swedish.

Well, yeah, I

mean, there's, I think it's best to

avoid that, but.

Well, we have about two minutes left for you to summarize whatever you want to, have most etched in the hearts and minds of our listeners right now.

I would just say that I would encourage pastors to do something similar to what

John Todd and Richard Newton did so many years ago.

In fact, I know some men, I have, I've given this challenge, and I know some men who

have taken up the challenge, really used the message.

Many people today, the idea of

children is not what I'm talking

about.

The children are addressed.

The value of that would be both to the

children, learning how to be able to communicate directly to the children,

different ways in which this can be done, and that's left up to the individual.

It's very difficult, a full -blown

sermon that's addressed.

I know some men have a better

ability to do more than that.

I think that we need to consider in how God blessed their ministry,

and how he sat under the preaching

of these men when they were young.

And we're out of time, and I want to make.

Sure that our listeners know your website again.

It's solid -ground -books .com, solid -ground -books .com.

Please patronize Solid Ground Christian Books, because they are one of the sponsors keeping Iron Sherpa and Zion

Radio on the air.

So please spend a lot of your holiday gift -giving money at Solid Ground Christian Books.

Thank you so much, Mike, and I look forward to your return.

To Iron Sherpa and Zion.

Thank you, Brother Chris.

Lord bless you now.

Thank you, and I want everybody.

To always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior than you are a sinner.