BREAKING: SEBTS Whistleblower and Montage

Conversations That Matter

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00:12

Welcome to the Conversations That Matter podcast. My name is John Harris. This is a big deal, guys, what

00:17

I'm about to share with you. Just broke this morning, a student at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, which is actually the seminary

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I went to, recently graduated. Apparently things haven't changed that much. He shares some of his experience there.

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And it's similar to some of the things I experienced. It is discouraging to see that from 2019 to now,

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I think I made my video in 2019 where I talked about what happened during my experience. It doesn't seem like things have changed all that much.

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And not just pumping in the social justice stuff, but the way that it's handled, the circling of the wagons, the way that they try to neutralize any kind of person who would share concern about this.

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It's concerning, guys. So I wanna just play for you the video.

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The link is in the info section if you want to watch the whole thing. And there's also, there's a montage.

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This is a very, nothing like this about Southeastern to this level, I think, has quite been put out there.

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But there's a montage at the end that shows chapter and verse. This is, you know, these are the clips that you can look at and say, yep, there's social justice being taught at Southeastern or by professors from Southeastern, et cetera.

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So if you want to get a link to the entire video info section, if you wanted to see the montage, there's a link for that as well.

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This is a big deal though, guys. So let's go through it. I'll make a few comments here and there, but I want you to just feel the full weight of this.

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So we're, and by the way, one last thought before we roll the film here.

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This is gonna motivate Southern Baptists, I think. Southern Baptists who are going to Nashville, going to the convention, you're gonna want to resend

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Resolution 9 after you see this, I think. Most, I mean, if you're understanding what's actually going on, you're gonna want to resend

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Resolution 9. And I'll show you at the end. I'm not gonna show you now.

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I don't want to take anything away from this, but I have some ideas on ways to support that initiative when you're at the convention.

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Let us start rolling the film here though. This is Scott Crawford is his name, and this is what he has to say.

02:38

Hello, everyone. My name's Scott, and I just want to talk about my experience at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, which

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I am an alumni now. I graduated this past December. CRT is being taught there, whether directly or indirectly, but it is being taught there.

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I should say, when I saw this, I downloaded it and I just cut the clips up so you can just see.

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These are the relevant parts. If you want to hear the full thing, go to those links. These are the relevant parts. So far he's saying,

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I'm a student there, and CRT is being taught there. It's sad that when

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I called out Al Mohler to do something to resend this resolution, I got met with pushback from administration.

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It was amazing to see from just the student body that the pushback that Tom Askell and Tom Buck was getting for just speaking up on the issue and saying how godless this ideology is.

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I remember talking with one person on the... So they tell you something about the student body, that where they're at.

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The resolutions committee about it. And Scott's saying that he's gotten pushback, and he's saying, he's talked to someone on the resolutions committee at the school.

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So that means probably, I think Walter Strickland or the other one would be, why am

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I blanking? Keith Whitfield would have been the other guy. I think he's the dean now, if I'm not mistaken, or the provost. I think it's

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Keith Whitfield. So he's talking to one of them, it sounds like.

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He says someone on the resolutions committee from Southeastern, he's talking to them. Here's what he has to say. Conversation, great brother,

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I respect him. And if he watches this, I hope he knows that I respect him. And I just think some people at Southeastern, namely

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Walter Strickland and a few students are being held captive by false ideology as Colossians 2 .8

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talks about. And I remember bringing it up with him. We went through the resolution.

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I still was like, how can this be useful as an analytical tool for the gospel when it's a pagan ideology?

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That's like using Gnosticism as an analytical tool, which we would never use. So I left the meeting, went on with my studies.

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And then November was when push came to shove, because I remember that was when they hired

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Karen Pryor, in 2019 in November, they said she'll be on faculty teaching

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English. And I remember reposting the founder's article about it where they had some concerns.

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And I reposted it. It had DeSavitt's tag in it. Well, I remember it because it was

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Thanksgiving break. So I was heading home to Tennessee from where I'm from. And also

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I got an email from Ron Hutchinson saying you can't post that. Okay, this matches my experience, exactly matches my experience at Southeastern.

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I think it was Ryan Hutchinson too, who reached out to me when I posted something he didn't like, who's at the time, he was the

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VP. He may still be, I'm not sure. But this is how it works, guys.

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You do something to, you put something out there that they think makes the school look bad.

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But it's about doctrine. It's about something that's very concerning. And you get the call, you get the, and it's not a call, it's more of an order.

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It's more of a, it was wrong what you did and you need to stop doing it kind of thing.

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And so that's what he's saying is happening here to him when he posted a founder's article about Karen Swallow Pryor teaching at the school and some of Karen Swallow Pryor's concerning beliefs, like some of her endorsement for certain aspects of revoiced theology.

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And I was like, okay, I'll delete it. And I was like, can

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I come talk to you about it? Because what they're saying has some merit. So when I got back from Thanksgiving break that Monday, we talked about it.

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And I was just like, they have merit on this. And it was like,

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Hutchinson was like, do you really think they would hire somebody that's unorthodox? And I was just like, well, from this article, yeah.

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So we had that talk and then with respect, left the meeting discouraged, went back to work.

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And then it was interesting that December, I found out that they really wanted me fired, talking with two people that I worked with.

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They wanted him fired. That also matches a lot of the experiences I've heard from others who work for SBC entities and take any kind of stand, whatever, even if it's small against social justice, specifically where it's happening at their institution.

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And the next thing is to fire them. And so it sounds like Scott works for the school,

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I think in a custodial way or something. And he is being a target, or at least he heard that he was a target for termination.

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That told me, and that was very discouraging. It was very, I was very upset that you can't even criticize anything.

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I understand I work for the school and there's an ethic there, but shouldn't the gospel come first, no matter whether it's the school or not?

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Like, it seems like you're sort of keeping matters in house and not letting anything be criticized.

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So that December, Askell had a follow -up article, which I reposted because it didn't have the

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Cebits tag on it. And she never made a renouncement of revoice.

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And everything I said in the meeting about, well, she didn't say this, was true.

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Because she, from the emails Tom showed on that article, you can go back and you can type it in on Google and it'll come up.

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And I was just like, so everything I said and Askell said in that meeting was warranted.

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And I talked with someone that was in a hiring process for her and they've said they vetted her on it.

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Well, I told him. I was like, well, she needs to make a statement on it. And they basically said, oh, she doesn't need to make a public statement when she's told us.

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This is so classic, guys. I've seen this over and over. I've heard these stories. I mean, even there's some public things

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I can think of that kind of match this to some extent where professors will be in error or employees will be in error on something.

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And then the statement, if they do make a statement, it doesn't address the error that they committed. They just make general broad statements.

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I think Matt Hall, right? Like he says, I'm gonna peel back, show you the rotting corpse of white supremacy that underlies that narrative of faithfulness you thought was in your church or family.

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I'm a racist, I'll be a racist because I benefit from systems that allocate privilege to me. And then when he goes out there and condemns critical race theory, he does it in broad terms.

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He condemns the underpinnings that are naturalistic or atheistic. I mean, this is what liberation theologians did.

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They said, we don't agree with Marxism. I mean, that's atheism. But then they imported all of its ethic or most of it.

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And that's what, it's the same kind of thing that we see happening over and over and over. And I remember

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I was on the phone, what, about a year and a half ago with Danny Akin, the president of the school. And I was reading him.

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I remember I was reading him quotes. This is what your professor said about this. And the response is, well, he didn't say that.

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And I'm like, this is the quote. I'm reading it to you. It's like, well, you know, it's always your, you're always the problem. You're a misunderstanding.

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You're not. And I'm like, wow, if there's this many people misunderstanding. I mean, you either have a professor there that cannot communicate very well in just plain

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English or which would you think disqualify him? I mean, he's saying things that sound the opposite of what he actually means, apparently.

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Or you have someone that actually means what he says. Either way, there needs to be some kind of a public clarification or at best,

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I mean, at best, a clarification or at worst, I should say clarification at best, a retraction and an apology.

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But you don't find any of it. It's just, it's pride, I guess. It's institutional pride. We don't make mistakes here or something, but I've run into this all over the place.

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And it's just, it doesn't seem Christian to me. Christians, if they make a mistake, especially one as serious as a doctrinal issue, they would be happy to turn around and instead of going and having a powwow and supposedly retracting or clarifying it with whoever in their institution wants them to do so, you do it publicly.

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Public error means public retraction. But that's not what you get. So this is, what

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Scott's saying here is matching everything that I've known to be true in my experience and so many others experience in SBC Entities.

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Yeah, I was just thinking, well, you wonder why the public perception about Southeastern is the way it is.

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Exactly. Maybe it's because of that. As 2020 continued, I remember going to,

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I was taking theology two at the time and Dr. Keith Lee, who's over at the Bush Center, had Neil Shimbey come for the

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CRT discussion. And I made my thoughts known.

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He asked for questions. I asked him, what's your thought on the Dallas statement? John MacArthur, James Watt, Michael O 'Fallon and all them.

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And he said, he disagreed with it. And I was like, why? And he sort of stumbled around the answer.

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And I was like, is it not a biblical statement? And he said it was. And I was like, what's the problem?

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And he danced around the answer. I pointed this out before with Neil Shimbey as well.

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I think he said Neil Shimbey, right? That he supports, he thinks

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Resolution 9 is okay. He supports it to some extent. And he did when it was passed for sure. And anyway, but then yeah, the

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Dallas statement. That's actually a good indication sometimes. It's like, well, why won't you sign the

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Dallas statement? It's not just him. There's many others who haven't or won't sign the Dallas statement. And you have to wonder why.

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I mean, there's even folks at places like Ligonier where you'd think like, don't you guys agree with this? But I'm not saying

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I know all the answers to why some people don't sign certain statements. But it is a question with how important and damaging the social justice movement has been.

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And with the intimidation we now know to be true, at least from multiple sources at SBTS where people were basically told they shouldn't sign, professors shouldn't sign the

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Dallas statement, why? Why is it that that, what's the error in it that people are, that are against?

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There's something weird in the water when that comes up. I'm just saying. I was thinking,

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I asked Keith Lee, and I have another story to ask him. Keith Lee's a professor there. About having other speakers here.

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But I asked Keith Lee, why couldn't you just get James Watt or Virgil or one of them to come up here? And those like, well, that -

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He's saying James White, the apologist, or Virgil Walker, he's, who's on the Just Thinking podcast, both against critical race theory, liberation theology, ethnic

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Gnosticism, social justice. And he's saying to one of the professors there, I think it's

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Ken Keith Lee, why can't they come in? No, they basically said they'd want to debate. And I was just like, what's wrong with that?

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And it's just like, they don't want to debate it.

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And I just don't get it. I remember asking Crystal Wilson, who's over the, you know, schedule.

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That's true. That is true. You don't find that. I remember even with the atheists, you know, 10, 15 years ago, the new atheists, there was all these debates, but, you know, there was sort of,

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I don't know if it was a revival of debate or what, but we don't, academic, academia, you should be filled with that.

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You think professors want to debate professors on their scholarship. You don't find it though, hardly at all.

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Scheduling people, ask her. Why can't we get, you know, Vody or, you know,

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Tom Askell, Tom Buck, you know, any of those guys that signed that, Josh Bias even, to come talk about this.

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How about we have a round table discussion? Do it in the chapel. I guarantee you, actually, I know students at the school would be interested in watching that and just, all right, let's see

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CRT. Can it be used as an analytical tool? And, you know,

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I told - And the answer for that, guys, just real quick, is no. If you import the categories of CRT in order to use it as an analytical tool,

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I mean, you start off with the assumption, you know, racism is there, whether you see it or not.

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You just got to find it. It's systemic, it's everywhere. It just pollutes everything. Minority perspectives are, there's some sense in which they have more validity because of their lived experience than other perspectives.

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There's this intersectional framework. You have to import those things to use the tool.

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So the tool is going to be like, well, where's the racism, let's say at McDonald's? Well, CRT says it's here. So the tool is, you know, in what ways, you know, what microaggressions can we find or whatever?

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You're importing the assumptions. That's why, short answer, that's why you can't use it as an analytical tool and separate it from the worldview.

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Because the assumptions, the basic fundamental assumptions behind the worldview are where the tools derive their legitimacy from.

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Pulled them over, you know, I asked them over and over, can we get these guys on there? It was brought to my attention recently through DMs that they have.

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And I was just like, really, because - That's not true, guys. That's not true.

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And I'm going to drop a bomb right now of my own a little bit. Bodhi Bakkam, I remember this was two years ago, maybe.

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I've heard this now from three sources. Bodhi Bakkam is one of them. That Southeastern essentially said that they had a scheduling conflict.

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Bodhi was on the schedule to speak there and they had a scheduling conflict and never rescheduled with him. And they basically booted him.

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It was a disinvite by using the scheduling conflict reasoning

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There's three good sources that I have received that from. And I, you know, this is the kind of thing though, it bothers me because Scott's living the same thing that I remember where you have guys that could articulate the opposition to social justice.

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And the response is, you know, we've tried to get them or we're open to that.

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There's some kind of, if you're initially trying to ask about those things, we have nothing against them. But in the end, they won't actually invite these people.

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And if they do, it turns out like Bodhi, there's a scheduling conflict that comes up and then he's not re -invited or something.

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And it's, they only platform certain people. They only platform certain people.

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It's the people that are gonna protect the institution. That's why, you know, you'll see the only way that, the closest they've gotten to trying to platform someone against critical race theory is the

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Neil Shenvey talk. But again, someone like Neil Shenvey defends Southeastern, defends Danny Akin, defends to some extent, even people like Jarvis Williams, defends

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Walter Strickland, defends Resolution 9, doesn't sign the Dallas Statement. What does that tell you?

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That's the kind of opposition that they're comfortable with. It's not real opposition against the school.

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It's opposition against certain abstractions. And it's always, you know, nicer to focus on abstractions, but it's not what the apostles did.

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It's not what Jesus did. They did have names attached to, or people that they had in mind that people knew who they were talking about with these errors.

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And so anyway, Scott's just not surprising me, unfortunately, that he would have gotten the runaround on that.

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With them, and they say the opposite. They say they have it. And so, which is it?

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I went to Imago today, love Tony, love the elders there. I remember one instance during 2020 where it was after GT conference, and I post, you know,

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I'd repost the founders clip. One elder in particular, Zach Lyons, confirmed to me about, you shouldn't call it strickling like that.

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And I was like, but the evidence is out there. And he - This is something

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I think people need to be aware of, because I saw this when I was there in that environment. It's very hard to find a church in the

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Wake Forest area. Southern Baptist churches are basically off limits, just about. I mean, you can't find, it's hard to find one that's not on the social justice train.

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And they're very connected with the school. The school really does influence that whole entire region.

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And so, you're gonna have some, you're gonna run into problems with the leadership at your church if you go against Southeastern.

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This is often the case. So, I think, it's just interesting he brings this up. I remember feeling that as well. You went from the standpoint epistemology approach, you have to learn from people's experience.

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I'm not saying everybody in Imago today is teaching this. Tony's not, because I would have said something, obviously.

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And, but, for them to call me out for Strickland when the teaching videos are out there in the public sphere, very uncalled for.

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And, again, no ill will towards them. I love them. I love my time there. I had one of the best growth groups, probably at the church.

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So, I love all them. But, they do have an elder there that does standpoint epistemology, and he goes to Southeastern.

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And, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that it's being taught at Southeastern.

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And, you can go look at the clips. I don't do this out of ill will to anybody. I love my teachers.

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Every teacher that I had, thank you, because you taught me to be a better Christian and a better follower of Christ.

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I have no ill will towards anybody to the administration. I just wish that they could see that CRT is being taught there, and it needs to be found out and removed, or whoever.

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And, even if someone's teaching it, and meaning to teach it, they need to be removed.

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All right, so he has a montage at the end, included in this video that we're gonna go through.

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But, interesting what he just said, that, it's sad, honestly, it's sad what he just said.

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But, interesting, he doesn't have an ax to grind with Southeastern.

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And, I can relate to this. I remember when I made my video in 2019 about my experience at the school.

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I'm like, I just want the school to come back to doctrinal purity. And, I want people going in to know what they're getting into, that there's some problems there.

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And, Scott seems the same way here. And, it's unfortunate, I have a hunch that some people there are gonna try to turn him into some kind of a horrible enemy.

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And, I think of the words of scripture, am I your enemy because I'm telling you the truth?

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And, that's, I think, Scott's mind here is, this doesn't help anyone.

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This does not, when you come out against the system like this, right? It's a funny thing, it's like, they're always like, let's speak truth to power, right?

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When you actually do that, like Scott's doing here right now, it doesn't benefit Scott. It'll actually, it'll hurt him.

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Opportunities won't be given to, afforded him in the SBC. It will blacklist him, it really will.

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And, he's a brave man to do this. And, I wish, and I'm gonna say this, I've said it before, I wish some professors had the guts Scott had.

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Because, I know I would not have had to do my video, Scott wouldn't have had to do his video if some professors had some backbone and would actually take this issue on at their institutions.

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Sadly, that's not what we're finding. And, it's left to people like Scott to shine a light on this.

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Well, we're going to see a big light shown on this right now, probably the biggest light that has ever been shown on Southeastern.

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And, this is a montage and includes clips of professors from 2018 to 2021 and some of the things that they have taught there.

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And, we're gonna watch it. And, I'll insert some comments as we go. White Christians need to learn, above all things,

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I think, to be good listeners. Over the last several years, as I've tried to help build a culture for racial reconciliation and kingdom diversity, which is a core value of Southeastern Seminary, I've come to understand more and more that my perspective is not the perspective of my

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African American brothers and sisters or my Hispanic brothers and sisters, my Asian brothers and sisters.

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They really do see life differently. They're operating out of a different paradigm, a different context that's very different than mine.

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And, I didn't really realize that until I stopped talking and began to listen.

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So, I think one of the things that white evangelicals, in particular, have got to do is become better listeners. In addition to that, we've got to be willing to surrender power, which is, again, not indigenous to our nature.

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As I often say, not only do we need to invite ethnic minorities into our room and to have a seat at the table, we even need to be willing to surrender leadership at the table if we're really gonna make progress and really help our brothers and sisters understand we see them on an equal plane with ourselves.

25:37

That's interesting you said that, because Danny Akin is still the president, as far as I know, of Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary, so he hasn't surrendered that power.

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So, I don't know what that says about him, but you can see underlying that is the whole standpoint theory, that they're just, like I was saying in the podcast yesterday, it's almost like alien life forms.

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They're just so different, such a different reality, and because of that different reality, then they need to also be, we need to decenter some of the whiteness and have some of them, minorities, be in leadership positions.

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So, forget about solely looking at qualifications and who's gonna be best for the job, but you also have to now insert this other element of how diverse is it, and the expectation is you get a better outcome if it's more diverse.

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I remember years ago with the get out the vote stuff, rock the vote on college campuses, and the assumption behind that was the more democracy is good, the more people inserting their voice, the better choice is gonna be made.

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Well, now it's the more diverse people inserting their voice, the better choices are made, and that's just not true.

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You don't find that in scripture. It's totally foreign to scripture, and it's actually contradictory to scripture because scripture in multiple places says that it's actually, wisdom is found with age, with experience.

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Wisdom is actually ultimately found in the word of God. We actually have a source for wisdom, and so it's not, and there's no barrier because of your ethnicity that keeps you from understanding that.

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There's obviously language things, and that's why there's translators and stuff. Even in Jesus' time, the

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Septuagint was used, a Greek translation of the Old Testament, so there's that, but that's not anything close to resembling what

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Danny Akin's talking about here. Let's keep going. I probably should just let a lot of this play because it's gonna be a long video if I don't.

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This is another professor at Southeastern. If you live in the middle of a place that is just overwhelmingly white, there's hardly any people of color where you live at all in your town.

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This sounds like a harsh thing to say, but you probably should not adopt a non -white kid, and this goes back to that form that everyone's gonna have to fill out at some point if you wanna adopt, and we've talked with other couples about this given our experience, and if you're gonna move to the middle of some place where it's all white folks and you're filling out this adoption checklist and it says, what races are you open to?

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I think white folks struggle with guilt. They feel guilty if they say, well,

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I'm only gonna check the box that says I'm open to adopting a white child, but it would be much better for your kids if you are gonna only be able to because of where you live, because of who your friends are, because of what you can and can't change in your life.

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If you're gonna raise kids like white kids, that's not bad, that's not wrong, that's not evil at all, but you should adopt white kids.

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That's interesting considering, you saw the little graphic there. Wake Forest is over 70 % white and it's an affluent area.

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That's where he lives. I mean, that's where Southeastern is. I'm assuming that's where he lives or close to there. So Matthew Mullins, professor at Southeastern.

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How many of the people that have adopted black kids when they hear this, or kids from Africa or from Asia or something, and they're not from Africa, they're not from Asia, how many of them listen to that and say, yeah, you know, that resonates?

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Really, I should just stick to my, I mean, this is like what white supremacists would say. Isn't it?

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Like stick to your own ethnicity. It's just incredible, it's just incredible. This was said 2018, sponsored by Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary.

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That's a professor still teaching there. Dr. Cone, he opened my eyes to the fact that Christ is trying to restore brokenness, and he really had a focus on that brokenness as manifesting as oppression, racially speaking.

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Dr. Cone really allowed me to see a new vista, a new space, a new avenue to allow the gospel to be made manifest.

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I think the evangelical will do well to hear the voice of Dr.

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Cone in drawing us towards the reality that the gospel, the resurrection of Christ has implications for the here and now, but yet also making sure that we don't lose the eternal realities of the gospel.

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An African American cannot thrive in a white evangelical space if that space is entrenched in white evangelical culture.

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It's just a matter of time before I hit the brick wall. All my assimilation and everything, somebody's still gonna call me the

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N -word somewhere along the line. Just hollers on top of a car. I'm gonna stop there. So yeah, that's

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Walter Strickland. I know there's this controversy right now with the ACSI and them bringing in his group,

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Unify Ed, to advise on diversity and inclusion in those 25 ,000 private schools, potentially, throughout the world that they provide resources for and accredit.

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But there he is. From 2018, he said it himself. Dr. Cone helped them understand the gospel.

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It's basically a summary of what he's saying there. And then he's sitting down with another gentleman there,

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Ellis, I think it's Carl Ellis. And he's saying, instructing

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Dr. Strickland, telling him, this is at Southeastern, this is happening. You're gonna hit the brick wall if you try to assimilate in a white evangelical space and you're not white.

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Racism's gonna be there. I mean, that's the assumption of critical race theory. Racism's just always there. It's just always there.

31:58

And eventually, you're just gonna find it. It's gonna rear its ugly head. It's always underneath that surface, ready to bubble up.

32:04

Here's, and again, remember, as we go through this, this is a seminary. This is a seminary.

32:11

These are seminary professors. The videos we've seen so far, in their capacity as seminary professors.

32:19

Is this what you go to seminary to learn? I mean, if you agree with it, which hopefully you don't, but even if you do, is this seminary stuff?

32:26

Here's Fabini Anderson, who works at Southeastern. Fighting, and so is

32:32

Okoye. And they're just doing the same thing, and they're not like, and even one has to demean the other in order to show that they're capable and strong.

32:44

That just resonates with me. I know that in America, the history, I mean, historically in the world, since Adam and Eve, men and women relationships have been broken from the jump.

32:54

And in America, it's been seen in a patriarchal setup. And with the women's rights movement, all that haven't happened, so we can have a voice.

33:05

It's just really good to see what it can look like. If a man and a woman, both equally powerful, equally skilled, really respect that in each other.

33:16

So this is a fantasy, this is a fantasy. Black Panther, she's talking about Black Panther. Look, there's a woman who's equally powerful and equally skilled, and it's just so refreshing, because it goes against the patriarchal setup we have in this country.

33:30

I feel like there's some verses. Aren't there some verses maybe in the Old Testament that talk about how it's a shame, it's not good, it's negative, it's cast that way, that if a woman is to, women are defending.

33:43

I mean, it's to the shame of the men. Like this is, that's actually not normal. That's not a creative norm to have women in combat.

33:51

And she, and they're praising this, again, at Southeastern. A lot of Christians, I think, suffer from hermeneutical solipsism.

33:58

They assume that their interpretation is the only one that exists, or the only valid one. But when you realize that there are insights you can get from different cultures, and even just from people in general, that their own life experience will bring something to the table.

34:13

Standpoint epistemology right there, guys, classic. Do you need to be prepared to accept that our way, the

34:20

Anglican way, the Presbyterian way, the male way, the white male way, the

34:25

Southern Northern Hemisphere way, or whatever the way is you've been ingrained, is not the only way, and you can learn a lot, and at least appreciate the people who are other, who are different to you.

34:37

And that's, in the global Church of Christ, that is what we should be doing. It sounds so good, guys.

34:43

It sounds so good, I know, to someone who, if you're not familiar with standpoint theory, it might sound a little off, but it sounds good.

34:48

Shouldn't we listen? And again, the issue is not listening, but the issue is, there's an objective reality we all should be pursuing.

34:58

There's truth out there. And if someone is able to make connections, and has sources that they've found, and they're able to make sense of something in the scripture, they're able to find the interpretation of it, what it actually means, we should go to them.

35:16

We should learn from them. That's why there's commentaries. That's why there's certain people that are looked up to, because of the good job that they do in this area.

35:22

Being a Berean, rightly dividing the word of truth. It's not because, well, my social location gave me such a better leg up, because of all the barriers

35:36

I had to face, or the oppression that I experienced, or the division that was before me.

35:43

Look, some of those things, sometimes if you grow up in a certain way, in your context, sometimes there are certain sections of scripture that might be more, you feel like they're more applicable.

35:56

They mean something to you personally, the application of them, because of what you're going through.

36:02

But that doesn't mean that you're somehow a better interpreter, because of the context in which you grew up.

36:08

And that's the fallacy. And I've used this example before. It's like brain surgery or something. Do you want, you have a panel of doctors gonna do brain surgery on you.

36:16

Are you gonna look for how ethnically diverse they are? Are you gonna look at the authors of the textbook they read to make sure that they were getting the perspective from Africa and Asia, and Timbuktu or wherever?

36:27

Or do you want someone who has done this, has experience in it, is good at it, had high marks in their class as they graduated, and you don't care what the ethnicity is?

36:39

That's the difference here. It doesn't take, it's not like, well, she's a better brain surgeon because she's a woman, and she's also a minority.

36:46

No, that's not what makes you a good interpreter of scripture either, just because of those things.

36:51

So is it possible that there's someone who, because of where they grew up, there were a lot of brain surgeons, and they were able to kind of learn from that and stuff.

37:00

But again, even that is because it's knowledge being passed on to them, objective truth that they're learning.

37:08

So standpoint epistemology is a farce, and it's being propagated there. Again, Southeastern, I think that was from 2019 if I'm not mistaken.

37:15

Here's a library talk, the lingering effects of lynching on your ministry, an untold story from Southeastern.

37:22

Still hovers over our culture. There is an uncanny exact correlation between the rate of capital punishment in North Carolina and the rate of lynching in North Carolina.

37:40

We've got a president who cannot rule this country without vilifying brown people at the border.

37:53

This is a lynching, apparently, capital punishment and lynching, and loot migration, immigration, legal migration, they're all the same kind of thing, and that's amazing.

38:05

Anyway, this is a seminary. Just remember, this is a seminary that this is happening. Here's Danny Akin, the president of the seminary, saying,

38:10

I recently listened to a fine panel discussion at SCBTS on the history and effects of the lynching of blacks by whites.

38:17

I would only add one thing, the greatest act of lynching continues every day at the hands of white physicians who lynch black children in the womb of their mother.

38:24

March 29th, 2019. Now look, he's right that abortion's terrible. Calling it lynching, it's not lynching.

38:31

This has become, James Cone is the one that brought this to us with the cross and the lynching tree that like, well, the cross is a lynching.

38:37

Everything's a lynching. The cross must be read through the lens of lynching. It's the kind of stuff Strickland reads and in some ways promotes, that kind of thinking.

38:46

And here, you find it in Akin. You're finding it all over the place. When someone's shot by the police, it's a lynching. No, it's not, technically.

38:52

But it's become this figurative thing. But the main thing about this is Danny Akin's saying it's a fine panel discussion.

38:58

Was that a fine panel discussion? Would you characterize that for seminary students listening to this?

39:04

That's a fine panel discussion. Lynching and capital punishment. Isn't capital punishment, that's a biblical thing anyway?

39:10

Why would you call that a fine panel discussion? But he does. There's the tweet, there's the proof that this is somewhat, on some level, being endorsed.

39:20

So I guess if they would've just added abortion to the mix, he would've been fine with it. Here's a chapel sermon right here.

39:28

Men, especially seminarians, have to die to the idea of being the pastor of a multi -ethnic church. And I once told a white friend of mine that that's the one thing in the

39:38

United States of America that it probably was a good idea for him not to do. He began to weep and cry because he had never been told that there was something that he can't do in America.

39:49

Let me tell you something. All right, listen. If you're white, you can pastor a multi -ethnic church.

39:55

I'm sorry. The church is multi -ethnic anyway. And if you're in an area that has people that represent those different ethnicities and they're

40:02

Christians, they wanna get together and they wanna come to church and they wanna propagate the gospel, they wanna make disciples, they wanna worship together, you can pastor that church whether you're red, yellow, black, blue, green, white.

40:14

There's nothing in the Bible indicating that you have to be of a certain ethnicity in order to pastor a multi -ethnic church.

40:20

This is Pharisaism, subverting the law of God for the sake of tradition. And it's being propagated at Southeastern. Here's a 2019, we're still in 2019, reading the

40:30

Bible Latinamente. Local stories. Dr. Danny Carroll. And let me just give it to you through an immigration lens.

40:39

You should always perk up when you hear lens. Your ears should perk up. Wait, what do you mean by that?

40:44

What do you mean by lens? Are you saying, I mean, it could be okay, but a lot of times an immigration lens, so we're gonna read the

40:49

Bible through the lens of immigration. Well, what does that look like? You read Daniel Latinamente.

40:58

This resonates. Because the life of an immigrant is the constant negotiation of loss.

41:07

Loss of your language, loss of your food, loss of your friends, loss of your family, loss of your dignity, the loss of the nonverbal language, the warmth, the abrazos, the kisses on the cheek.

41:27

Now you get sued for that in this country. Would you be? He makes a great argument. If he's trying to say that people, that migrants from South America or something, maybe you should just stay home.

41:39

Is that what he's trying to say? I don't think that's what he's trying to say, but that's what he sounds, that you're gonna lose all these things.

41:45

You know, it's such a horrible thing. Well, why are they coming here then? Why? Why is America a place that people wanna come so bad?

41:51

Have you thought about that? They're willing to give up all these things. That's the point. They're willing to risk giving up so many things to come to this country.

42:01

And he's got it flipped. Man, there must be something good about this country. Instead, Dr. Danny Carroll preaching to students at Southeastern, this is apparently helpful for ministry, saying that you read the

42:15

Bible through this perspective, this Latina mente, or immigration or something perspective, where he casts it as a negative.

42:24

It's so bad, all these things that you have to give up. You can see the victimology starting to come out. And if you read the book of Daniel that way, you know, it's just gonna be,

42:33

I guess it's gonna be different somehow if you have these experiences. Begin to realize is that we need those other voices.

42:44

Of course, that's the whole point. We need those other voices. You can't understand Daniel correctly unless or to the full extent of the way

42:53

Daniel is supposed to be understood unless you have these voices. That's the point. That's the point of this whole thing.

42:58

Think many Christians who are well -intended in their desire to uphold the authority of the text slip into a desire of protecting the text from misinterpretation, which they are trying to then read the

43:14

Bible so objectively that they, because they cannot escape their own cultural trappings.

43:20

You cannot escape your own cultural trappings. If that's true, Walter Strickland is in a cultural trapping that he cannot escape.

43:27

And how does he know that you can't escape your cultural trappings if he can't escape his? How does he adjudicate between different cultures to make sure that he knows, well, you know what?

43:37

This culture has this right. This culture has that wrong. You have to transcend your culture to do that, but you can't escape your culture as Walter Strickland just says.

43:43

This is a big problem. It's postmodernism. Their own cultural realities into this reality of inerrancy.

43:52

Is that your cultural reality, Walter Strickland? I mean, just this postmodernism is, it's jujitsu against itself.

44:00

I mean, it's just, it blows itself up. It's self -refuting. And then we come up with this very simplistic reading of the text.

44:09

Oftentimes, the pattern is for authors to come to publishers, but I think the publisher needs to have a missiological disposition to go in and finding these voices that are drastically underrepresented ideologically.

44:26

So, you know, if you're, publishers, book publishers need to publish books from all these different perspectives so they can get the truth out there,

44:35

I guess. Because you won't have the truth unless you have all these different perspectives. But someone's saying that who's trapped in their own perspective. So how do they know that there's legitimacy in other perspectives?

44:42

That's the problem. It's self -refuting. I can care about abortion. I do. I can speak up about abortion.

44:48

I do. I can participate in anti -abortion things. I do. And that somehow doesn't seem to eat up and sort of push out concern

44:58

I would have for something like mass incarceration, for example. If we wanna use the sort of parlance of our day,

45:07

I just think that's being consistently pro -life. All right, so this is the broadening of the pro -life.

45:12

So instead of pro -life meaning that we're against murder, womb to tomb, right? You can use that if you want, but we're against murder in the womb.

45:20

We're against murder euthanasia. We're against murder, any kind of way that it can happen. Murder's wrong.

45:25

God says murder's bad. Now pro -life means, well, mass incarceration now is somehow a pro -life issue.

45:31

I mean, this is where people like Ron Sider say, smoking's a pro -life issue. I guess climate change could be a pro -life issue because quality of life issues get included in that.

45:38

And that's how socialists worm their socialist ideas into the pro -life movement.

45:44

And it destroys the pro -life movement because that's not what the pro -life movement was ever about. African readers of the

45:49

Bible face the challenge that most of the models and methods of Bible interpretation or hermeneutics are rooted in a

45:56

Western context. You know, people sometimes speak of hermeneutics as if it has principles that are set in stone, but is hermeneutics static or is it dynamic in the sense that it can change as methods of interpretation are adapted to different cultural contexts?

46:12

I think, no, no, they can't actually. No, no, that's, again, the standpoint theory is coming out there. Trying to, you know, it's a

46:19

Western context that created these hermeneutical rules. And is it dynamic? Can it change? Can the rules change as time goes on depending on the context that you're in?

46:26

No, actually, they're invariable, absolute, unchanging, just like the nature of God. That's what the laws of logic are.

46:32

And if you're going to subvert that, then there is no logic. You destroy truth. We do better when we sit down to read the

46:39

Bible and we have brothers and sisters coming from all different ethnicities, all different socioeconomic standings, because they're gonna have insights into this infallible, inerrant text that I, for example, will miss.

46:54

How many, you know, again, that's the president of the seminary. He's agreeing with all this stuff. They're gonna, you know, it's just a given that they're gonna definitely have insights that he'll miss because of who he is.

47:06

It's, you know, again, brain surgery. Can you imagine the brain surgeon that's like, you know what?

47:11

People that aren't even experienced in brain surgery, but we're gonna bring them on. I'm gonna learn from them because they're just gonna have all these insights because they grew up on the other side of the tracks or they're from, you know, the cornfields of the

47:24

Midwest and they're just gonna know so much more about brain surgery than I do. It's ridiculous, guys. And this is the president of the seminary that's advocating this.

47:33

All right, here we have another. This is William Branch. He's a professor at the seminary. People believe.

47:38

And we're in 2020 now, by the way. That they're where they are simply because of hard work, ethic, and dedication.

47:46

They don't think about. It's the people who take growth hormones, right? It's the people who say, that didn't help me hit 70 home runs.

47:54

Those little things, because they really can't calculate. Now, why won't they admit? The reason why you did that is because of some substance that diminishes some of the credit you've been giving to yourself.

48:08

Well, that's painful. And so I think that it's really just painful to realize that it's not all that I thought it was, that there was some outside things that just, again, diminish the credit

48:20

I've been giving to myself. And then guilt kicks in, I'm sure, sometimes, where people are like, well, you want me to apologize for what

48:27

I can't change? And we're saying, no, no, no. Just acknowledge what it is because then that'll make you then take.

48:34

When much is given, much is required. So the person who has much, give to him who doesn't have.

48:39

So now you start getting into this concept of redistribution and this. So no, no, all we're saying is, Jesus even said, let him who has two tunics give the one who has none.

48:49

I mean, this idea of taking from your abundance and making sure that there's no lack in the body.

48:56

And I think there's the church body and then there's the brotherhood of humanity. We need to empower a group to be in a leadership position to help our tendency.

49:06

You see what I'm saying? What are the New Testament books? They're writings to help Gentiles to know that they're not second class.

49:14

What are the issues? Yeah, that's the New Testament. Just writing to help Gentiles know they're not second class. The whole thing,

49:20

I mean, it's kind of a word salad, but if you peel the onion layers back and you get to what he's trying to say, what he's saying is that there's disenfranchised people because there are those who have more money, power, et cetera and it's not them who did it.

49:36

It's kind of like Obama. You didn't build that. It's because of all these systems in place that have caused them to be wealthy, et cetera.

49:44

So their job now is to redistribute their resources to someone else. And he uses Jesus' example, give to him who has one tunic, no tunic, if you have two, give to him one, charity, et cetera.

49:59

If there's lack in your church, right? In your local church, especially, that's where your primary allegiance is to, but even beyond that, if there's lack, then yes,

50:08

Christians should be involved in that. Christians should be involved, especially of responsibility to your family and to your local church, first and foremost, meeting needs, et cetera.

50:17

But that is a voluntary charitable thing. That is not a coerced thing.

50:23

And he doesn't say that in this video. He doesn't say the government should come in and do that, which is good.

50:29

He's staying away from that. But that kind of logic is used by a lot of people who wanna justify, let's come and take it.

50:36

And he sets up the problem for that kind of a solution, because the way he sets up the problem is, hard work didn't get you here.

50:43

It's unfair somehow. You're benefiting from something that's unfair, and someone else is suffering as a result of that. So you have a moral duty.

50:49

That's a different motivation than they have a need. And I would like to be used by a guy to meet that need.

50:54

Now it's, no, you know, actually you owe him, because you got somewhere unfairly. That's what's slipping in there.

51:00

That's the Marxist element. Most people are gonna miss it, but that's what he says. And then at the end, of course, it's not just money, it's power.

51:08

You gotta give up power, because now there's a tendency to platform certain people groups. You gotta make sure that the people groups who aren't being platformed are being platformed.

51:16

And then somehow that's what the biblical authors are trying to do, trying to show the Gentiles that they're part of the body of Christ too.

51:22

Well, they are, but that's not the whole point of the New Testament. It's not just showing

51:27

Gentiles that they're not second -class citizens. It's the new covenant is the gospel has gone to the Gentiles, and that's a beautiful thing.

51:35

So it's, the assumptions behind a lot of what he's saying, bad, bad, bad, bad.

51:41

Here we go. This is 2020 as well. We're still in 2020. Karen Swallow Pryor, professor at Southeastern.

51:46

Here's what she says to David French. Is it you're seeing, or sort of the worldview that you're seeing emerging from younger evangelicals?

51:53

Well, I think that they do care about the issues, but I dare say that they actually have a more holistic approach to the issues.

52:00

They're not partisan. So they tend to be pro -life, as you and I are, but they also tend to be concerned about race issues because that is a life issue.

52:11

They are concerned about immigrants because that is a life issue. It's not related to abortion directly, but all of these things interconnect.

52:20

So I think that they have a more holistic approach, and I think that they have a radar, a highly tuned radar for hypocrisy.

52:28

And that is one of the things that's being exposed within 21st century American evangelicalism, and they see through it.

52:36

Thank God, the Me Too, Church Too movement, which has shown many leaders too willing to cover up abuse in order to save the institution or save the reputation or save the powers that be, and that's just simply not acceptable.

52:52

And so women are beginning to question that, and that also gives us some sort of partnership with minorities because they too are victims of these power structures that put powers that be or the status quo before human life and dignity and safety.

53:12

And so Trump just sort of crystallized all that.

53:17

It seems like in God's providence that because of COVID, the protests and the attention has been prolonged on this

53:26

George Floyd situation in a way that might not have happened without it.

53:31

And so I do see that there is an awakening. My friends, my family members are all talking about not only

53:40

George Floyd, but actually beginning to see things that they weren't seeing before.

53:45

There are people - Okay, so Karen Swallow Pryor, this is a mouthful right there, but she's saying holistic pro -life, they're not just pro -life, it's also race issues that younger evangelicals, and that's a good thing that they're focused on that.

53:56

What race issues, Karen Swallow Pryor? Oh, those riots that happened last summer. That brought attention to this deep, horrible reality.

54:04

They would never talk about the January 6th Capitol thing this way. Oh, it brought attention to election fraud.

54:10

No, it's what happened all summer, businesses destroyed, people's lives lost.

54:16

It's good that those things lasted so long because it brought attention to this problem, this disparity that exists in policing, et cetera.

54:24

And now people are starting to wake up and that's a really good thing. Wow, it's just amazing that you could say that about,

54:31

I mean, no one would even say this about, you know, it's just really good. It was all the attention that happened during January 6th.

54:38

And that doesn't even quite, that doesn't even compare. Think of anything you wanna think of that's violent.

54:44

And also it's good that it lasted so long to bring attention to something. Just shocking that someone would say that, but there it is, a professor at Southeastern is saying it.

54:55

And Trump is part of, you know, the one who crystallized all this. He's the big bad meanie in all this.

55:01

It wasn't Trump's fault at all that any of that happened. Let's go to, this is still in 2020,

55:08

Walter Strickland. We're trying to get the attention of civil government and have their voice heard because every other time they're not being heard.

55:18

There's nobody clamoring for their votes. There's nobody doing town halls in their neighborhoods listening to them.

55:26

So they're like, man, if they're not gonna listen to us, then what we have to do is kind of get busy.

55:32

And, you know, throw a brick to a window. Any simple answer is a wrong answer because this is very complex.

55:39

And so if we understand King's quote, and I'm gonna butcher this, but the language of the oppressed is the brick or the right is the language of the oppressor or however that goes.

55:51

Yeah, unheard. Yeah, unheard, there you go, there you go. You know, then how can we leverage our own voice for the sake of those who don't have one?

56:00

The church can obviously listen. That's a very simple, like, no, no. That's Matt Mullins. That's the guy who's earlier in 2018 was saying, you know, you shouldn't adopt a black kid if you're white, et cetera.

56:10

Now he's weighing in on this. So we're gonna hear what he has to say. But that was

56:15

Walter Strickland basically saying that if you, again, in a way that you would never, they would never talk about the

56:23

January 6th, you know, quote unquote insurrection this way. But they will talk about what happened all summer, last summer, this way.

56:31

It's, you know, it's, you gotta understand it. There's no, the answers are so complex. There's just no simple answer.

56:37

You know, a simple answer, like going and arresting the perpetrators, maybe bringing in the National Guard if you have to. I guess that's just not an answer for the social realm or the spiritual, you know, on a spiritual level.

56:48

I guess the gospel is just not an answer to go reform these sinful people doing these sinful things. It's gotta be more complex because, you know, they have a legitimate gripe and they have no outlet, which is such a lie.

57:01

I mean, the whole thing was pandering. Look at where BLM, look where they're spending their money.

57:06

A lot of it was going to Democrat candidates. They are, they're focused on this issue because it's a political issue that is making a lot of people, getting them in power, making them rich, et cetera.

57:18

It's a lie that like, oh, just no one, there's no way to express our, the plight that we are in any other way than throwing a book through a window or something.

57:29

That's just, it's giving them an excuse that does not exist. There's never an excuse for that.

57:34

And here we go. Here's another professor at Southeastern, Matthew Mullins.

57:41

We're listening, come talk with us. I think the church can do that, but then to also say, and we have healing hope that can affirm what you see as wrong.

57:50

We can biblically affirm that as wrong and then point you to something that brings hope, no matter if these systemic things change or not, if the policies change, that we labor and fight for those things.

58:02

If you - What are the policies that need to be changed? That's what I want to know. They're so vague about this. What are the policies? What needs to change?

58:08

Show me the law. We can affirm as wrong, from what is wrong?

58:14

Affirm that what happened to George Floyd was wrong. Yeah.

58:21

Can we affirm that it was racism? And that, because he jumps to the systemic thing, no. There's no evidence that we can't do that, but that's what they're doing.

58:30

And then somehow the Bible gives you this justification for doing that, no. That's just wrong. That's absolutely wrong.

58:37

And then the church just needs to listen. No, the church actually has truth that the church can proclaim right now. That's the sad part.

58:43

That is the sad part. Christians have a truth that they can proclaim right now. They can go to these events.

58:49

They can preach the gospel. These are people, James tells us why sin happens. It's not a mystery why people go through Brooks through windows and stuff.

58:57

I mean, yeah, you can look at the specific incidents and what was surrounding it, but when you're damaging someone's property and there's no war going on or anything like that, it's just like you're a civilian going and throwing a brick through someone's window who wasn't even involved in this.

59:15

It's not a mystery why that happens. It's sinful desires that are in our flesh.

59:20

And the cure for that is the gospel. And so Jesus came, he took those, took the penalty for that brick you threw through a window if you repent and believe in him.

59:27

Why is that? Why is that not, you know, I don't know. Church just needs to listen. It's just so complex.

59:35

Anyway. To understand, I don't want to demonize and vilify them. Like, they're just doing this for nothing.

59:42

Yeah, the William Branch professor at Southeastern. He doesn't want to demonize them. This is the time to admit it's not the biblical prescription for how to do anything.

59:52

Yeah. But it is a understandable, again, or like you said, an honest or to be expected response to people feeling trapped and not knowing how to get their point across.

01:00:06

So now that's why the church, we have to turn up. We have to turn up by reflecting. We understand your pain.

01:00:13

We see that this is coming from somewhere. Let's finally address it. And this is why

01:00:18

I think so many young activists who are cloaking themselves as pastors like this, because now they have, you know, it's like the nurses who are essential workers.

01:00:27

Now we're essential, right? It's, there's kind of like a, like I'm on the front lines of this

01:00:33

COVID thing, right? There could be a pride that can come with that. I'm not saying, I have friends and family members who are nurses in this and I thank

01:00:40

God for them. But there is certainly this idea or this mentality that I've noticed with some people where when you're needed, when you're important, it feels good.

01:00:50

And that's what William Branch is kind of playing off of. The church is needed. The church is important because it can fulfill this social function that's just not being fulfilled by anyone else.

01:00:59

People aren't being listened to. And where your church is gonna go in there, church is gonna listen to them. They have legitimate gripes.

01:01:05

Where's the legitimate gripe? So, you know, someone gets shot in your community. There's no evidence of systemic racism.

01:01:10

And now somehow it's just very understandable for you to go throw bricks through windows. No, it's not understandable.

01:01:16

And actually that's what the church needs to say. It's that's not actually justified, understandable, any of that. It's wrong.

01:01:21

It's a mob mentality. You need to stop, you need to repent. God's word,

01:01:27

He's called every single one of us to one of two forms of faithfulness.

01:01:33

We can be faithfully single, or we can be faithfully married based on God's definition of marriage.

01:01:40

So luckily, I can actually fulfill either of those vocations, whether I'm attracted to men, or women, or both, or neither, or potted plants.

01:01:49

Like my attractional patterns don't actually matter very much. They do though.

01:01:55

Attraction, I mean, yeah. You can do, you can fulfill what

01:02:00

God wants you to do. You can fulfill despite sinful tendencies and inclinations, but they matter.

01:02:10

And if you have an attraction to something that God has forbidden, that's something to mortify and try to defeat.

01:02:18

It's not that they just don't matter. So this was Rachel Gilson talking to Bruce Ashford, who's the former provost, on a

01:02:25

Southeastern podcast. Don't minister out of rigid categories of gay and straight. I think those only contribute maybe to premature labeling.

01:02:33

Like if I'm not gay, then I'm straight. If I'm not straight, then I'm gay. Let's back off of that a little bit.

01:02:39

Let's just talk about other ways to think about your identity and to describe your same -sex sexuality.

01:02:45

I'm not setting this up as you gotta make people choose, in Christ or gay. I'm not doing that. But that, would we do that with any other sin?

01:02:55

That's the test I usually apply. Would you do that with any other sin? I'm not making you choose. You bring up murder, they always say, you're equivocating murder with homosexuality.

01:03:06

No. So you can pick that one if you want. What would another sin? Blasphemy or Christ?

01:03:11

I don't wanna have to make you choose between those two. Well, you do kind of have to choose. Like it's gonna be one or the other.

01:03:18

That's just, it's that nonsense, that same -sex attracted Christianity stuff creeping in as well.

01:03:25

Here's another clip. This is from another professor at Southeastern. We're still in 2020. It takes

01:03:30

Latino Christians to drive us to a biblical understanding of immigration that we should view this as a service to the church.

01:03:38

God's people have historically been called immigrants who are themselves to show compassion to the stranger.

01:03:46

Israelites were required to treat foreigners with love and kindness. Contrary to the way they were treated in Egypt.

01:03:53

Exodus 22 and Deuteronomy 23 are a couple of places for that reference. The law did not stipulate qualifications for such treatment, such as a green card or work visa.

01:04:05

Christianity and race in America. Let's stop that. So, I don't even know how to approach this.

01:04:18

So he's saying that Hispanics or Latinos are going to help give a better biblical understanding of immigration specifically.

01:04:26

Which again, you see the standpoint theory coming in once again. Their experience, their culture, their social location is gonna help you understand this issue biblically.

01:04:34

And it's very significant that there's no green cards in the Old Testament, I guess. Nevermind the fact that that wasn't really something that was done at that time anyway in a

01:04:46

Near Eastern context. They are responsible if you're a sojourner to fulfilling the law of God in where you are.

01:04:54

And you are responsible to the law of God. And a lot of the benefits that were associated with, well, ethnic

01:05:03

Israel, yes. And their attachments to the land did not apply. Even the rules about slavery did not apply.

01:05:10

You could not, there was a year of Jubilee for Israelites, but there could be perpetual slavery for those who were not.

01:05:17

There was a lot of things like that that showed that there were differences. Though, those sojourning in the land were responsible to fulfill the law of God.

01:05:26

So it certainly, it was a different, completely different context. And there was,

01:05:32

I mean, today they would probably, if that system was around, they would say that the Jews were practicing apartheid and they had second -class citizens in their midst.

01:05:40

I mean, I'm just telling you, that's how they would view it today. But they're going there, they're cherry picking and using proof texts to try to compare thing, 21st century realities to ancient

01:05:50

Near Eastern realities. And then saying, well, there weren't green cards back then. There weren't work visas back then.

01:05:56

So kind of like, it's okay. Well, yeah, at the same time, they didn't have the welfare system that we have in this country currently.

01:06:05

And a lot of the benefits that come with being a United States citizen, they didn't have the same tax structure.

01:06:11

There's a lot of reasons that you would want to identify someone who's not in that system, in your midst, so that they can be properly paying into the system or not taking advantage of the system, et cetera.

01:06:28

So it's just, it's so different. And to just gloss over all of that, and yeah, the

01:06:33

Latinos are gonna help us to read the Bible better. And look, there's no green cards. It is just, it's childish.

01:06:39

The fact that this passes for scholarship is a little shocking. Here's Walter Strickland again, 2020. We're intertwined at its inception because Christianity was the thing used to be able to say, how can we enslave these people yet evangelize them?

01:06:56

And so how is it that we can construct or imagine a faith that sets somebody's soul free, but keeps their body belonging to us, right?

01:07:07

But the issue - Those slaves, they were so good or bad,

01:07:14

I don't know which word you wanna use, that they really wanted their slaves to experience salvation and eternal reward and all the blessings that come with being a child of God.

01:07:23

They wanted that so bad for their slaves, but at the same time, they just didn't, they wanted their slaves to work for them forever.

01:07:30

And so they constructed this gospel that allowed them to do that. I mean, that's just, it's interesting.

01:07:36

It's like they, in his mind, I guess, they must've cared so much, but also cared so little for their slaves.

01:07:42

So let's see what he's gonna say about it. As that gospel was preached to slaves to keep them in check, the people who were propagating that gospel to them actually took it on themselves.

01:07:53

And so now we have a gospel that's a half gospel. There it is. There it is. A half gospel.

01:08:00

So it's a half gospel. So the reality is these slaves who received this gospel are gonna go to heaven, but it was only a half gospel.

01:08:06

How is that a half gospel? What was missing from it? Jesus Christ paid for their sins. They're going to heaven. What's the thing that's missing?

01:08:13

Well, let's listen to what he says. That says, you know, your soul can be free, but your body doesn't matter.

01:08:19

So then, you know, the weighty matters of law, KJ. There it is, the law.

01:08:25

The law. Are we adding law to gospel? Are we doing what the Galatians, the

01:08:31

Galatian heresy, is that what we're doing? Get relegated to, you know, piety.

01:08:38

And so then justice gets cut out from the idea of the chaos or the justice, righteousness sort of.

01:08:46

Justice. Justice is what's missing. So fulfilling the weightier matters of law and justice are missing from the gospel that was able to get slaves to heaven.

01:08:54

But apparently, we don't have the full gospel. A two -parted reality of the gospel, what it does.

01:09:00

It's kind of like resolution nine, which I know we'll get to in a moment. I think there are many, many good things in that resolution.

01:09:09

It's not all bad. There's some people who don't see one scintilla of positivity in CRT.

01:09:17

I know that Dr. Aiken has expressed that he can see. He's sympathetic to the fact that it raises sensitivities and it raises concerns and it raises questions and it posits theories that you say, hmm, that's good.

01:09:31

I need to wrestle with that. I need to grapple with that. I know him. I want our faculty and our students to be aware of critical race theory and what

01:09:40

Deuce said a moment ago, where they raise really good questions, where they expose underlying hidden aspects of racism.

01:09:54

I'm thankful for that. Again, as an overall framework and ideology, I think it comes up short.

01:10:00

But that doesn't mean everything that they say is wrong. In a number of instances, it's very clear it overlaps with revelation and what

01:10:10

God's word says about these issues. It just simply highlights them in our particular context and kind of, oh, well, yeah,

01:10:19

I can see how that, the Bible's talking about that right over here. So I do think that has been helpful.

01:10:27

So that's Danny Aiken, president of the school, saying that there's helpful things in critical race theory.

01:10:35

He wants the students to be aware, useful things, and there's some good things about Resolution 9. So this was after that supposed, where the seminary presidents came together and denounced critical race theory.

01:10:46

Danny Aiken's backtracking on that. That was the end of 2020. Very clear. I believe that racism exists both on the personal level and the systemic or structural level.

01:10:58

As I've said for a number of years now, sinful humans by their very nature are going to build sinful structures that benefit those in power.

01:11:08

I think it'd be helpful if these people got more specific, but they don't.

01:11:15

Most social justice advocates don't. It's just there, and you're supposed to know it. Here's Cheryl Duxworth.

01:11:22

I think she's a student, if I'm not mistaken, at Southeastern, but they put her on on the Southeastern YouTube channel publicly to talk about women in theological education.

01:11:32

So I think she's, maybe she does adjunct work there. I'm not sure, but here's what she said. What is probably important is for pastors and leaders to develop relationships with women of color, because that often feels really awkward.

01:11:47

But it is really awkward for me to sit down with a professor who's white, because I don't know what that relationships look like.

01:11:54

The same way when people, people go through a lot of training to be missionaries, because they want to be able to engage people in a different cultural context.

01:12:04

Unfortunately, because I'm an American, I think sometimes people forget that we are different culturally.

01:12:10

And so it's just really awkward. And so I don't sit down with a lot of professors. I don't sit down with a lot of pastors or leaders, because I don't think

01:12:18

I'm the person who they immediately see, because I don't think that's the norm.

01:12:25

Honestly, the first thing, it's hard. I want to show the error of some of these things.

01:12:30

And I want you, as you're watching this, things should be jumping out at you.

01:12:36

I want to show you, hey, here's what the problem with this. I have compassion though with this person in a way. I listen to that.

01:12:42

I hear that. And I think that this woman needs help. That's not good. And it's not, it shouldn't be normal to feel that way about pastors.

01:12:52

You know, it's just so awkward. I mean, that's, I can't sit down with them. That just means there's no trust.

01:12:58

That's underlying all of that is there's a huge lack of trust. And it's the lack of trust is based on the fact that these men are white.

01:13:05

It's what, you know, white professor, you know, well, it's up to them to reach out to women of color so that they don't feel so awkward around you.

01:13:12

Why is there this lack of trust that's there? You speak the same language. You have so many of the same things.

01:13:21

I mean, like I said, if you're looking at different cities in the

01:13:29

United States, if you're looking at city versus country versus rural, topography in the

01:13:35

United States, if you're looking at North, South, Midwest, West, Pacific Northwest, Southwest, you're gonna find all kinds of differences.

01:13:44

There's a big, there's big differences even in a state that you're in. You can travel, you know, 10 miles outside of town and there's big differences.

01:13:52

And sometimes those differences can be even greater than the difference between certain ethnic groups that live side by side in one geographic area.

01:14:01

There's a lot of ways. You could cut it up socioeconomically. There's so many things that make people, people have different experiences in different ways that they were brought up and stuff.

01:14:11

But it's not like these barriers are so great that like ethnicity gets treated as like the greatest barrier.

01:14:18

It's just so high. It's like a mountain you can't hardly climb. And because there's just so much mistrust there somehow.

01:14:24

And there just doesn't need to be. I don't understand that completely. And people watching this are probably saying, well, it's because you're white.

01:14:30

You don't understand that. No, it's actually, I mean, I do understand not trusting people.

01:14:36

I do understand, you know, having suspicions about people. And I understand how, you know, personal experiences can even lend to that when you see someone that's similar to someone who betrayed you or something.

01:14:49

But a lot of these people, and I don't know her specific situation, but a lot of these people didn't grow up in, you know, the

01:14:57

Klan wasn't running around terrorizing them. You know, maybe they experienced things here and there.

01:15:04

Look, I've experienced. I don't talk about it really hardly at all, but I've experienced stuff. And it's not like, you know, well,

01:15:12

I just think like all Italian Americans must be this certain way because of experiences

01:15:17

I had when I was, you know, with a bully on a soccer team when I was younger or something. Like that kind of thing, you know, it just,

01:15:24

I'm able to make those distinctions. And most mature people are able to make those distinctions. That was that person.

01:15:30

There may be a lot of people like that, but it doesn't mean that people are like that just because they're in this ethnic category or, you know, people from a specific area, you know, they're just look down their noses at me because they're from Westchester County, New York or something.

01:15:42

Yeah, there's some people there that might live a little high on the hog and think a lot of themselves.

01:15:47

It doesn't mean like everyone's there like that. And this is the thing that just comes with being an adult. And I don't, when

01:15:54

I see people who don't seem to have that or just seem they're so nervous and so afraid of what people will think, who look different than them in some way.

01:16:05

I just think where, you know, you would want to counsel this person, finding your security in Christ, trusting his plan, trusting where he's putting you.

01:16:13

If you have leadership over you and they're a different ethnicity. And look, I've even considered in the past, like I've visited churches where the pastor's black.

01:16:22

I've told my wife before during, there was, well,

01:16:27

I won't go into the whole story, but there was a situation where I remember telling my wife, I'm like, maybe we should visit this black church and just go there, you know, black in the sense that we'd probably be like us and like one other couple would be like the only white people there.

01:16:40

And that was fine with me. But it's, I'm willing to put myself under that leadership and not,

01:16:47

I'm not even thinking about it in those terms. Like, oh, they're black. It's gonna be so nerve wracking. If you're about to fall apart emotionally because you're gonna have an interaction with someone and you don't know that person really, but they're just of a different ethnicity, might wanna get help.

01:17:02

And that's all I'm trying to say is like, if you're one in Christ, you already have that bond that you're, they're a Christian, you're a

01:17:07

Christian. And this is just something that you're just shaking in your boots about. And I feel compassion for that person.

01:17:14

That person needs some help. Because a lot of this is probably conditioning somehow that you just can't trust those people.

01:17:21

You can't trust those people. You can't trust those people. And the answer is not that, well, it's all on them.

01:17:27

It's all on them. They have to reach out to me. I have no, I have hardly any responsibility in any of this.

01:17:33

It's like, I'm just, woe is me. They have to prove to me that I can trust them. It's like, no, you need to take a step of faith too.

01:17:40

And that's part of being a mature adult. All right, I've beaten that dead horse. We're towards the end here. We're in 2021. We're in 2021 and this is

01:17:47

James White. Not the James White you're thinking of, a different James White, preaching in the chapel at Southeastern.

01:17:53

Why would we need an illustration in light of the current continued legacy of injustice that exists in our world?

01:18:06

Isn't it fascinating though? And it's interesting the way stories are crafted because I wonder if we paid attention to this, not just because of media, but because we were dealing with a

01:18:16

COVID -19 reality where breath and where again, the respiratory system is challenged.

01:18:22

And yet maybe we listened because we heard again, George Floyd challenged with breath.

01:18:31

This is horrible preaching. Just gotta say, I'm sorry to whoever the James White is.

01:18:36

This is terrible preaching. I can see how he's, she's trying to create a connection here between COVID and George Floyd.

01:18:44

I mean, George Floyd did, he was positive for COVID. So anyway, but she's trying to create a, did we listen more to, it affected us more because COVID was going on, that we sympathize more with George Floyd and gasping for breath.

01:19:01

It's just, when someone does this, I wonder what other connections they're gonna like draw.

01:19:07

It's just, it's so, such a weird connection. No, actually it's because of like legitimately there was someone's knee on his neck and that's why people empathize.

01:19:17

That COVID wasn't part of that. But anyways, he's trying to be poetic with this. And one can almost wonder, did it stick into the psyche of his brain, the words of Eric Garner?

01:19:28

When Eric Garner said, I can't breathe, are those the words that simply eked out as he was calling for his mother?

01:19:36

I almost wonder if, he's got a category in his mind for suffocation and he just like is pulling up random things from that category to just relate to one another.

01:19:47

I mean, it's just, I mean, I don't know what George Floyd was thinking, but I'm pretty sure he was thinking like,

01:19:53

I need to breathe, not like, I wonder if Eric Garner felt this way. I don't think that was probably on George Floyd's mind at that moment, but it's melodrama.

01:20:01

It creates a narrative. So anyway. These are difficult moments. Because what it does is it brings up word pictures.

01:20:08

Someone who talks like this, it brings up, you're thinking of someone dying from COVID. Now you're thinking of George Floyd. Now you're thinking of Eric Garner. It's all, it's an emotional language that you're getting.

01:20:16

It's not that these have any logical connection with one another, it's an emotional thing that you're now, oh, you're thinking, your heartstrings are pulled.

01:20:23

Oh, this horrible thing that people are suffering. So what's he gonna bring in now that he's kind of inserted the needle?

01:20:30

The names of Breonna Taylor, Atiyah Jefferson, Richard Brooks, Daniel Prude, and the list goes on and on.

01:20:37

These are difficult moments for the Southern Baptist movement.

01:20:44

So now he's creating another connection between all these shootings and then the Southern Baptist Convention.

01:20:50

Yeah, these things all happened that are interpreted probably in his mind from they must be racism, and that's the bridge.

01:20:58

It's racism. So these are difficult times for the Southern Baptist because what are the Southern Baptists are gonna do? Are they gonna be on the side of the oppressors?

01:21:05

Are they gonna be a side of those gasping for breath? I mean, this is melodrama is what it is. It's not really preaching.

01:21:11

Historically, when you're a slave holder, historically, when you've not honored the Imago Dei, historically, when you've enforced and endorsed segregation, historically, when you haven't changed positions of power, here's the problem with that.

01:21:24

Historically, when you align up with the nationalistic America rather than the gospel of Jesus Christ, the problem with that is simply this, that you misrepresent who

01:21:34

Jesus is. Who's the you? I mean, he's talking to students at Southeastern. I'm just wondering, who's the you that he's referring to?

01:21:43

But they misrepresent the gospel if they align it with nationalistic America. I don't know exactly what that means because nationalism,

01:21:50

I mean, in the social justice framework, he probably is saying if you're like rah, rah, rah, proud for your country, voted for Trump, United States is the best kind of thing.

01:22:00

You know, that's kind of, I mean, because at least you have to say that's the kind of interpretation that this is opening itself up to.

01:22:07

That's what a lot of people are gonna be thinking he's saying. Then that's the same as, I guess, segregation and all these other things that he's labeling there.

01:22:16

And he's saying you as if this is a current, this is just throughout time, you know, the people that are even sitting there,

01:22:23

I guess if they're white, I'm not sure, you know, they're complicit in this. I hope this is a generation that doesn't get distracted.

01:22:31

Okay, there it is. So I hope that you're different than those people is what's going on. I hope that it's a difficult time for the

01:22:37

Southern Baptist, a time for choosing. So I hope that you guys in this room, y 'all are gonna be different and in what way?

01:22:44

Not distracted. See, I serve a Christ that I can talk correctly about the history and reality of who we are as black people and white people.

01:22:54

I serve a Jesus where we can talk correctly about the injustices that's been done to the black church.

01:23:00

I serve, see, you gotta understand, I'm even dressed that way today because understand something, from the top up,

01:23:06

I'm dressed for the conservatives. For the top up, I'm dressed for you. From the bottom down, I got on my jeans because I'm ready to do some work.

01:23:16

By the way, those are really nice looking jeans that don't look like they've ever had any mud on them, but I digress.

01:23:21

And I got on my boots too. And I wear a bow tie as a reminder that I tied this myself.

01:23:29

And by tying it myself, my neck will not hang from anybody's rope. What kind of connections does,

01:23:36

I mean, I'm worried about this guy. Like now bow ties are connected to lynching.

01:23:42

Anymore because I'm afraid of what I might say that there's a possibility of lynching because black men often had to say those things and their speech was relegated often back, but my speech will not be relegated.

01:23:54

I tied this myself this morning. Very emotional.

01:24:00

The connections make no sense. Um, I don't see how this is preaching, but he's in that room.

01:24:07

I hope you guys are gonna be different because you're gonna have a religion, a

01:24:12

Christianity that is honest about what the black experience is. He's emotionally bringing them in and that's how so much of this works.

01:24:21

It's not like you can't sink your teeth quite into it, but by the end of a speech like that, you're moved emotionally into thinking like, you just,

01:24:28

I wanna support people who are oppressed. Oh, that's so horrible that he feels that way. I guarantee you

01:24:34

James White is not in danger right now unless there's something I don't know about in his local community with his family or something.

01:24:40

But as general, you know, as things are going in the United States, James White's not in danger of being lynched.

01:24:46

Again, it's like, I worry for people like this. Like you need help. If that's what you really have to tie a bow tie to symbolize that you're not gonna be lynched or something,

01:24:55

I worry about you. You know, where's your faith? Where's your, like, this is conditioned.

01:25:03

This isn't, this is a conditioned thing, guys. If you can walk around now, I mean, anyway.

01:25:10

I think my point's getting across pretty well. Here's, I think this is the last clip. Some followers of Jesus feel more comfortable around this kind of person because of the color of his skin.

01:25:24

They hire that person because he's from the same cultural background.

01:25:33

Brothers and sisters, you need to make up your mind whether you're going to regard people according to the flesh or according to the spirit.

01:25:44

I want to ask you, how can the problem of racial division and inequity be solved in this country?

01:25:52

So this is Dr. Mosley at Christ Baptist Church, I think it said, probably in Raleigh.

01:25:58

What, are they having a problem with this? Is it just a bunch of, you know, clans members in the church or segregationists there that people just don't, they're racist and they don't want to hire people that look different?

01:26:07

I mean, maybe someone from the church can reach out and see and comment on the videos.

01:26:13

That's a big problem here. I somehow doubt it. I somehow, I suspect that that's not what's going on, but Dr.

01:26:19

Mosley's been affected by the social justice stuff in some way. So that is the clip. Let's just put a cap on this because we've gone pretty long today.

01:26:28

Some of you like the long ones and today's no exception. Guys, this is big. This is big.

01:26:34

I would encourage you, sound the alarm. Southern Baptist Convention is this June. Sound the alarm on this.

01:26:41

Share, you don't have to even share this video. Go to the links in the info section, share the original video, share the video of Scott Crawford, the student, and share his story that has this montage in it and share it around with other people.

01:26:56

Say, have you seen this? And what's happening to our convention? What's happening to our schools? Are these the places that are cranking out the pastors that we pay in this convention?

01:27:06

The church planners, et cetera, the missionaries, is this what we want them to believe? And I think the answer is no.

01:27:12

So, I say that and I'm shamelessly gonna plug something that I created weeks ago that I showed you and if anyone's interested, they can go get it.

01:27:24

Let's see here, if I can pull it up. If you go to the links in the info section, there is one for this, the

01:27:30

Resend Resolution 9 Mask with the hammer and sickle on it. Resend Resolution 9

01:27:36

Mask and of course, this is probably going to be required to wear a mask, at least, at the

01:27:42

Southern Baptist Convention in June. So, why not have a Resend Resolution 9 Mask while you're there?

01:27:47

People can ask you about it and then you can tell them why you wanna Resend Resolution 9. You can also get the shirt,

01:27:53

Resend Resolution 9 shirt and the links for those things are in the info section if you're interested in that.

01:27:58

If you're not, that's fine. But I just thought, man, given this, it's probably a good time for me to plug that.

01:28:05

Guys, we need to pray. I don't know what else to say on a serious note. But I'm grieving.

01:28:12

I'm grieving for, it's been grief for years now over the way that this has gone.

01:28:17

And I was hoping in 2019, when I came out and said what was happening at Southeastern, it would be a catalyst for change.

01:28:24

And sadly, you can see there that since that time, that really change has not happened. Maybe it's even gotten worse and it needs to change.

01:28:35

It needs to stop. And so I would encourage you, go check out the links in the info section, spread the word on this and pray.

01:28:45

Pray that God would, I mean, I'm gonna be real with you. I think this SBC in general is, they're in like a stage four cancer point at this point.

01:28:53

And it's not like every local church has that. It's that the fundamentals though of the convention, the

01:28:58

North American Mission Board especially, second to that would be the seminaries and then maybe I've even heard some things about the

01:29:04

IMB. They are being compromised. And it's pretty much like all the seminaries, all the five major ones are being compromised in this way.

01:29:15

Southeastern may be the worst, but it's coming into everywhere. And there seems to be no will to fight it or to stop it anywhere.

01:29:21

And ask yourself, is Al Mohler fighting this? Is J .D. Greer fighting this? Is Danny Akin fighting this? Or are they complicit in it in some way?

01:29:28

They're not making public clear statements and denunciations and signing the Dallas Statement or any of that kind of stuff.

01:29:34

And so that's not leadership. If they really think that this is wrong, then they have to come out swinging against it.

01:29:40

And that's not what's happening. That's not leadership. Leadership needs to change. And if it's not changed this convention in a very serious way, which stage four chemo,

01:29:48

I'm afraid that there's just, it's inevitable. There will be two Southern Baptist Conventions. You have 20 churches about a week leaving the

01:29:54

SBC already as it is mostly over social justice. So anyway, that's where the

01:30:01

SBC stands. Hey, I hope this was helpful for you. I know it was long. God bless you until next time.