Elders, Deacons, Missionaries and other Positions

Good evening. Welcome to Class 3 of Introduction to Church, Life, and Ministry. We are going to jump right in because I have so much to say I can't even imagine getting through it all tonight. But again, you will get the slides.

Has everybody been getting the text and the slides and everything? Now, the sign-in sheet, I forgot to bring it in here. It's in my office. So, Bobby, at the break, would you please grab it off my desk and make sure everybody gets it?

Thank you. I have had a very busy day today. I had to do a funeral today. And then I had some other ministry responsibilities, and I just finished worship leader practice. So, a lot going on. But I'd like to begin with a word of prayer.

Father, I thank you for the opportunity to be here with these folks tonight, and to be about the business of this class and this academy. And Lord, to think about the responsibilities of elders and deacons in the church and missionaries.

Father, as we look at this and positions in the church. Father, may it be that from this group you might even raise up missionaries, that you might even raise up elders and deacons, that you might raise up teachers and people in the church who would see themselves as being used of you to lead others in the paths of righteousness.

And Father, I thank you for the calling that you put on lives, and I pray that you might begin to make those even more clear through this class. In Jesus' name, Amen. All right, very quickly, this is our agenda for the evening.

I've been trying to do this every week. Our agenda is we're going to recap our previous lesson and our reading. Everybody do the reading? Chapters 5 to 7 in the book? Okay, hopefully. If not, it's basically what we're going to be talking about tonight is what was in the book.

So if you didn't get through all the reading, we'll go through it. And then, of course, you can do catch-up. We're going to talk about the two offices of the church, which are elder and deacon. And we are going to talk about missionaries, local and foreign.

And then our class discussion after the break is going to be, what are other positions in the church? And we're going to ask, kind of play a, not play a game, but kind of throw out the question, let everybody have an opportunity.

What are some positions you think the church should have? What are some positions we think the church shouldn't have? You know, and we're going to discuss that later on. The previous lesson, we asked the question, is local church membership biblical?

I believe we made the case that it is. We talked about the governmental structures. You guys remember what the three structures mean? Episcopal is one single figurehead. Presbyterian is multiple elders in the local church.

That's another part. I didn't really stress that last week. But the elders, brother, the Presbyterian is not just elders, but it's multiple elders in a local church. It's a, what we would call, plurality of elders in the local church.

And then congregationally governed is a church that's governed by the congregation, as a sense, by vote. And then expectations of church membership, we all did the handout. We talked about that. Now, here's the recap of our reading assignment for this week.

The Biblically Functioning Church, chapters 5 to 7. Ask the question, what are the responsibilities of an elder? What are the requirements of the office of elder? I did a whole chapter on that. And then I put one chapter in for what are the requirements and responsibilities of a deacon.

And that was, you saw how that worked out. So, are there any questions from the reading before we even get into the lesson? Is there anything that you read? Forgive me, my throat's a little dry. Is there anything from the book that you read that you said, I don't know if I understand this.

I don't know if I agree. Maybe there was something that caused a bit of consternation. My brother, Ross.

The gentleman to the side.

You're talking about Priscilla and Akila and pulling Paulus to the side. Some people believe that that puts her in a position of prominence in that conversation by putting her first. And I would have to go back and look at what I wrote to clarify what I was saying in the book.

But as I said, I've written that book quite a few years ago. And thinking about it at this moment, I don't see that there's a whole lot that is placed in the importance of putting her name first or putting his name first.

Some people, as I said, put that in her in the place of prominence. And in a private conversation, that very well may have been. But some people use that to argue that she was in a place of leadership in the church.

That she was a teacher or an elder in the church. And I don't think that you can make that argument based on the fact that her name came first. I think that would be a stretch to do so. And next week is going to be...

We're going to discuss gender roles in the church. And so that'll be... We'll get more into it then. But is that clear? Okay. Well, maybe during the break we can look at it and see.

Okay. You were saying something about how you didn't know the struggles of a pastor. I have a question for you. What would you say would be the number one thing you've learned as a pastor that you didn't expect?

I mean, you don't have to say number one, but, you know...

Yeah, I was going to say it's hard to put a number one, because it would really be number one today. Right. The hardest thing on my life, and I say this having a church that is a blessing. Our church is a blessing.

And our people are very sweet. But it is very hard to have close friendships. Amen. Because people are very quick to lose the sense of loyalty and immediately leave. And I've had people ghost me that I have ministered to.

I posted something on Facebook about it today, actually, just that there have been people who have ministered to for years, and then they won't answer the phone. And, I mean, it's heartbreaking for my children and my wife, too.

Because you try to develop friendships. You try to develop loving relationships. And you feel like this is more of a family than your family. I spend birthdays with these people. I spend my life with these people.

I mean, my family is here. And when people just abruptly leave that, it's very hurtful. And I'm being very candid with you. About 10 years ago, I was going through a time of sort of being down. I was sort of depressed.

It was about 12 years ago, actually. And I visited a church in Daytona. And I never met the pastor before. And the funny thing is, I haven't really talked to him since. But he was an older pastor. And he and I talked about that very thing, what's the most difficult thing.

And it was a time where I was already down. And he said, in his 40 years, at that time he'd been in the ministry 40 years, he said it was the relationships were the hardest. So that's it. That's all. That's the best I can give you.

Yeah. Anybody else have any questions from the book? All right. Like I said, I got a lot to say tonight. So it's going to be sort of a whirlwind through this. I'm going to be jumping through the screens.

Just remember, you're going to get a copy. So you don't have to try to write everything down. I've done this for your benefit and mine because it keeps me on task. Keeps me moving forward. We're going to begin with the offices of the church.

There are only two offices in the local church. The Bible only gives qualifications for two offices. That's how you know there are two offices. Because you don't have a qualification for apostle. People talk about today being an apostle.

I don't believe apostle is a modern expression of someone's position. People say, well, wait a minute, apostle is in the Bible. Yes, I believe the apostolic age is over. I believe it was the first century.

We see the apostles. Now, if somebody says, well, apostle just means someone who is sent. The church sent me. Therefore, I'm an apostle. That is, we call that little a apostle. But when I think of apostle, I'm thinking big a apostle.

And so we don't see any qualifications. You can't open to 2 Thessalonians and find the qualifications for an apostle, right? There's only two offices that have qualifications. They are elder, presbyteros, bishop.

Those are all the same. Overseer, not, and I have to clarify that for guys from Set Free. Because you guys have a position called overseer. It's not the same thing. Overseer there is an important position.

But it's not, in this sense, it's pastor. What pastor Mark is would be the overseer in the biblical perspective. So an overseer, an elder, a bishop, a presbyter are all the same position. And that is the spiritual overseer within the local body of Christ.

And then you have the deacon. The deacons serve as ministry examples within the body of Christ. And that's the only two offices. There are no others listed or qualifications given. We talk about the elder.

I just mentioned this, but I'm moving right along. Within scripture, the word episkopos, which is from the Greek epi, which means over. And skapos, which means see. If you think like a scope or a telescope.

A microscope allows you to see things that are small. Micros and skapos is microscope. While episkopos is the word episkopos or the word overseer. And it's the same word, or rather it means the same thing, in a sense, as the word presbyteros.

Which is where we get the word elder or presbyter. And the way we know this is from Titus chapter 1. Titus chapter 1 speaks of elders. And this is what it says. Paul is writing. He says, this is why I left you in Crete, so that you might put what remained in order and appoint elders, that's presbyteros, in every town as I directed you.

If anyone is above reproach, the husband of one wife and his children are believers and not open to the charge of debauchery or insubordination. For an overseer, that's episkopos, as God's steward, must be above reproach.

And the way that I've described it, it's used in the same context. So I am an elder, presbyteros. I'm also a bishop, an overseer. It's the same concept. It's just two different words. And really, one is a title of position.

The other is what he does. So the bishop oversees. The presbyter oversees the church. And that's the way that that word is being used. And as I said, the term elder is synonymous with bishop. So if you ever go to a church and they call their pastor bishop, there's nothing wrong with that.

It's the same idea, right? We could call Elder Mike, Bishop Mike. He probably wouldn't dig it, but we could do it. You know, Bishop Andy, you know, because it's the same concept, same idea. Elders are always seen in the plural in the Bible.

Elders are always seen in a plurality. They do not all function the same way or with the same gifts, but they have an equality of authority. This is an interesting conversation that me and Mike and Andy often have because I'm the vocational elder here.

What does that mean? It means I get paid. It means, honestly, vocational simply means it's my job to be an elder here. And they are what we call lay elders. A lay elder is a person who is, or a non-vocational, meaning they do the job without being paid.

So my position at the church, because it is a paid position, is more responsibility for day-to-day business of the church. Counseling, things like that. These are things that I have more time to do because this is my job.

And then the Bible talks about the, we're going to talk about this when we talk about giving, the laborer's worth is higher. And those who receive double honor, especially those who labor in preaching and teaching, that's what I do.

I labor literally hours and hours a week in study and preparation and teaching. This is my job. This is what I do. And so just understand that's okay. We're all equal in authority, but we're not all equal in responsibility.

We're not all equal in gifting. All right? So that's an important thing to distinguish. So if you go to a church where there's one pastor who is, like this church, who is paid, but there are other elders, understand that if they're functioning biblically, all of those elders have an equality in their authority.

Therefore, if the pastor who is paid begins to get out of line or is preaching something false or is doing something foolish, it is the other men who are his, in a sense, his check and balance. In fact, let's talk about that for a minute.

The concept of a single elder or single pastor church is not supported in scripture. You won't find anywhere in scripture where elder is in the singular. In fact, the only place I guess you could sort of make the argument is in Revelation when it talks about the angel of the church of Sardis or the angel of the church of Ephesus.

Some people believe that that's referring, because the word angel simply means messenger. Some people believe that that's referring to the pastor of those churches. If it is, that's the only place where the word angel would be applied to a pastor.

Trust me, we're not all angels. The point is, there is some debate about whether or not that's referring to the pastor of those churches. In the second and third century of the church, it did become very common that there would be a bishop in a church who would be in prominence of teaching and preaching.

So it's not uncommon to see that. But there still would be elders or presbyters in the church who share authority. And I asked the question on the board, why might this be the case? Why might a plurality of elders be the biblical mob?

Who said accountability? I'm sorry, this for some reason is... Camera messed up there for a minute. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, isn't accountability important? Have you ever seen a pastor who is without accountability?

No. I have in some churches where it's almost like they function like what I call little mini popes. Like their word is law. They cannot be questioned. Whatever they say is absolutely true. And no one, no one questions their authority.

And it's not good. It's dangerous. Go ahead, Frank.

Absolutely. I wasn't saying that. So how did it come about that one pastor would be referred to as a bishop?

That is, I don't have time to outline the history of that. But there were, in the second and third centuries, bishops who began to rise to prominence in whole areas. So like you would have bishops over certain areas of the world or certain areas of...

And those men were seen as being leaders among those churches. And so I could see that being an old, very old model. But from a biblical perspective, we don't see that in the Bible. We see that in history.

And that's to say, if we do, when you take church history, I don't know if you didn't take it before, but next year when we give our church history class, we'll talk about how church structure... Because that's, again, how we see the rise of the pope.

Because when the Council of Nicaea met, it was 318 bishops, all from different areas. So different area bishops came together to discuss that event. And the bishop of Rome was not the most important. He was just one of many.

But by the 6th, 7th century, the bishop of Rome had declared himself the leader of the whole church. You know what I'm saying? So the position began to evolve and change over time. He ends up bishop in bishops.

Yeah, well, he is the archbishop, the head bishop, the vicar of Christ, right, according to the Roman Catholics. But again, the biblical model is Paul would... I'll answer your question in a minute. Paul would go into the local church, and Paul would raise up elders in the church.

And then he would leave, so that those elders had the responsibility to teach and preach in that church, and grow themselves, you know. So that's the model we see, and I believe that's the model that continues to be the biblical one.

Yes, sir. Well, Episcopal is more over many churches, sort of what? He was just talking about one man that's over many churches. But it sort of is. Like I said, it kind of becomes like a Protestant pope.

A lot of Baptist churches, their pastor, one single pastor who's in charge of everything, and he's the man, and you can't question him, and it kind of becomes a dangerous thing. And... It can be. What do we say?

Power corrupts, and absolute power? Absolutely corrupts. Yeah, so that's the danger. All right, let's look at the responsibilities of an elder. The responsibilities of an elder, this is in your book, I believe.

Four primary responsibilities are protecting the flock, feeding the flock, leading the flock, and meeting the flock's practical needs. So very quickly, let's just talk about what... And there are scripture verses that go along with that.

You're welcome to look those up later. But what would protecting the flock... What would we need to protect the flock from? I mean, everything I've heard was basically right. Wolves, right? I would say primarily, we have the responsibility of ensuring doctrinal purity.

Ensuring doctrinal purity. So therefore, we protect the flock from false teachers and false teaching. All right? And because it's not always a teacher that's influencing. Sometimes it's a book. People come in, hey, look at my great new book that's by Preacher X.

It's awful. You know, and we've had to tell people here, that book is awful. Please don't encourage other people in the church to read it. You might say, oh, who are you to tell the church? If you were giving your baby poison and I told you to stop, you wouldn't think that was wrong.

And a lot of the junk that people read is just poison. Now, if I tell you it's poison and you want to keep drinking, that's fine, but you're not going to spread it here. That's the point. We had a lady one time that was a member here.

She joined the church very quickly and it was very obvious within a few weeks that she had no intention of submitting to the church. She really was very headstrong and wanted to lay claim to some form of authority.

And she had written a book and self-published it. And she was trying to sell it among our members without asking the elders. She was peddling her book. So I got a copy of it from one of the people who did buy it.

Because people were being nice, you know. I mean, they didn't want to hurt her feelings. So they'd buy her book. Yeah, so she went. I took it home. I couldn't get past the first page. Not because it was awful, but because the grammar was just atrocious.

And I'm not perfect, but I can't abide that. I cannot abide horrible grammar. Huh? Yeah, I just, I'm looking at it. I'm like, first of all, this looks like it was written by a three-year-old. It just doesn't make sense.

It is not well written. And what it's talking about is wrong. So I reached out to her and I said, listen, you didn't ask us if you could sell this. We don't agree with what's in it. So we believe you should stop and you're going to stop.

So she did. And then it wasn't too long after that she left the church. But, you know, that's protecting. That's one way. You know, one time we had a guy. Again, I can't stop at every screen and tell all these stories.

But we did have, had a guy come in one time with his wife. He came into the church and he said, he said, my wife is a prophetess and she has a message for your church. This was right before church was about to start.

And what? No, I just want to see what you did. Oh, well, I was excited and I said, please preach. Absolutely not. Now, what I said was, I don't know what I said. I don't know what's going on with my camera, but it's killing me over there.

So anyway, what did I say? I said, listen, I don't believe you're a prophet. I don't believe your wife's a prophet. I really don't want to hear what she has to say. And she's not going to speak here. Really?

I can't believe you're surprised. I just, I can't, I can't imagine what you thought I was going to say. Yeah, just go ahead. No, you're not welcome to speak. You're welcome to sit and be quiet. If you can't do that, you need to leave.

And they left. So that was it. That was it. So, yeah, that happened. But like I said, I mean, we had those moments, right? Where it's the job of the elders. It's a job of the, to protect the flock, feeding the flock.

What do we feed the flock? The Word. The Word. You know, it was so funny. One of my pastor friends posted something. It was great. He said, he said, the flock gets upset if they're malnourished, but they don't show up for feeding time.

They don't show up on Sunday. They don't show up on Wednesday. They don't show up when the feed's going out. And they get upset that they're malnourished. That's part of the reason why we gather, is to hear the Word preached.

And discipleship begins on Sunday morning. People, I've heard people, I have had people come to me. I don't feel like I'm getting enough discipleship. Yeah, well, you're here only two Sundays a month.

Maybe you need to start being here more. Because discipleship begins on Sunday morning. The preaching of the Word, where everybody hears the same. And by the way, if you took what I preached on Sunday morning, if you took the text and the sermon, and wrote down just the main points, you would have enough information and material to do family worship with your family every night of the week for five nights.

I preach anywhere from 40 to 50 minutes a week. Every week on Sunday morning. If you took just my sermon, and pieced it apart, and talked about it with your wife and children, you would have enough information to have five nights of family worship every week.

So, discipleship begins on Sunday morning. And of course, Sunday school. This, Wednesday night, all the other things that we have going on. Leading the flock. What is leading? Leading is getting out in front, and being the example, and going forward, and doing what needs to be done.

Leadership. A lot of people talk about leadership as a skill that is developed. And it is. You develop that skill. But it's also something, I think, that is a calling. God calls leaders and equips them to lead.

So, one of the first things when we're looking at elders, or any time we're considering that, is, is this person a person who is a leader? That he doesn't have to be forced to get out in front, but he does get out in front.

And the difference between the shepherd and the cowboy, is the shepherd walks before the sheep, and the cowboy drives the herd. So, the elder walks in front. He gets out in front and leads. And the last is meeting practical needs.

Now, in two weeks, we're going to be looking at ministry in the local church, and we're going to talk about needs of the church. Felt needs. I'm even going to talk to you guys about how to do a hospital visit.

So, when we talk about practical needs, we're going to look at that more. But the elders are the first line of defense. And this is really where the deacons come in, because the deacons help us do that last thing.

And let's move on to that now. Because when it comes to meeting the needs of the congregation, we have to consider the role of the deacon. The deacon is to be the arms of the church. The hands and feet of Christ.

To understand the responsibilities of deacons, it's appropriate that we look at how the office was established. Turn in your Bibles to Acts chapter 6. When you get to Acts chapter 6, who wants to read?

Read for me. Read loud. Acts 1 through 6. Yeah, 1 through 7, I think it is. Yeah.

Now in these days, when the disciples were increasing in number, a complaint by the Hellenists arose against the Hebrews because their widows were being neglected in the daily distribution. And the twelve summoned the full number of the disciples and said, it is not right that we should give up preaching the word of God to serve tables.

Therefore, brothers, pick out from among you seven men of good repute, full of the Spirit and of wisdom, whom we will appoint to this duty. But we will devote ourselves to prayer and to the ministry of the word.

And what they said pleased the whole gathering. And they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Spirit, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicholas, a proselyte of Antioch.

These they set before the apostles, and they prayed and laid their hands on them. And the word of God continued to increase, and the number of the disciples multiplied greatly in Jerusalem. And a great many of the priests became obedient to the faith.

Amen.

All right. So that is... There is some debate about this, but as far as I'm concerned, that is the introduction of deacons into the church. Some people say, well, the word deacon is not used there. Therefore, it's not the introduction of the office of deacon.

Even if it's not the official office of deacon, it certainly is the ministry of the deacons. Because what these men are doing is they are paving the way for the apostles to have the opportunity to minister the word by not having to minister all of the other things that have to be ministered.

Because the church has spiritual needs and physical needs. And the physical need that was going on was food. And of course, there's a lot going on here about national and ethnic frustration. Because it was the Jewish versus the Greek-speaking Jewish people that were having this issue.

And that's why the seven men that they chose were actually all Greek. All of them have Greek names. You know, they chose them to ensure that those who were being mistreated were treated properly. There's a lot in this that we could get into.

But the most important thing is right there. I think it's verse 2. It says, It is not right that we, that is the apostles, should give up preaching the word to serve tables. Now, does that mean they're too good to serve tables?

No, Jesus washed feet. It's not about how good or important a person is. It's about the duty and responsibility that that person has. The responsibility of the deacons come into focus when we see their relationship to the elders.

The elders have the responsibility to protect, feed, lead, and meet the needs of the flock. And any one of those could be a full-time job. And we are called to fulfill all of them. So how does the elder accomplish all he needs to be done?

He does it through the ministry of the deacons. If the deacons don't deacon, the elders can't eld. I mean, there's two roles, two duties. And here's the thing I want you guys to understand. If you're ever called to be a deacon of a church, to make a list of deacon responsibilities would be almost impossible.

Because the responsibility of the deacon is to serve the church in whatever the case may be. This is one of the things we've talked to our elders about, our deacons. Because the question was, well, can you make a list of what we need to do?

No. We can't give you a list because it's an ever-changing dynamic as the body... I'll tell you what, when I first became the pastor of this church, it was mostly an elderly congregation, right? Bob was...

You know, I mean, you and I were probably the youngest. And I was in my 20s, you were in your, I guess, early 30s. I was 26, you're 31. But we were younger families here at the church. We had most of the people of the church were, you know, 70s, 80s, 60s, 70s, 80s.

And so there was a lot of hospital visitation that needed to be done. There was a lot of sickness that needed to be tended to. That was more so than now. Because now we deal with a lot of younger families.

So what do we deal with now that's different that wasn't then? Now we deal with family strife and teenagers and young people that... There's problems that need our help and encouragement. So the dynamic changes, right?

And as the church moves through the ages and time, the dynamics change. And therefore, the responsibility of the deacons are going to change. I'll read what I have here. The church is a living body, not a lifeless entity.

The needs of the church grow and change. There will always be a need for hospital calls, but there may come a time when their need is greater and other times when it's not so great. I mean, just a few weeks ago, we had a young man in our church.

One of our church members, their son was in an automobile accident and he died. But he was in the hospital for a week before he passed. And so they were there every day. And so they needed food and love and encouragement every day for a week.

And thankfully, we were able to do that. And, you know, other people in the community reached out too. But the church was there on point. That's what our job is, to be there on point. And, you know, that changed the whole week.

Certainly, it changed their whole life. But I mean, it became the focal point of ministry. This one family becomes the center of ministry because they're the ones who are hurting and have that need, right?

So that's, like I said, you never know what a week will bring in that regard. There will always be a need to assist those in the congregation who have needs, but there will be times when that need is greater.

So the deacons can't always know what the need is going to be because it changes. And so ultimately, the responsibilities of the deacon are not as clearly enunciated in scripture as those of the elder.

And that is by design, I believe, because the position is clearly stated in the broad title of servant, the word servant. The deacon is to serve the church wherever and however the church needs to be served.

If you are called to be a deacon, you are called to be a need for the church. A filler. That's it. When there is a need for a person to be visited, you fill the need. When there's a need to prepare assistance for a grieving family, you fill the need.

When there's a need to mop a floor, trim a tree, you fill the need. When the need is whatever it is, you are the servant to Christ and His church. And that is the primary responsibility of the deacon.

So it is a very vital role in the church. So that being said, let's take a few moments and look at the biblical requirements for the elder and deacon. I invite you to open your Bibles for this one, because we're going to look at 1 Timothy 3.

Brother, that's actually... 1 Timothy 3. Now this is in the book where I go through what each of these mean. But I did think it would be valuable to at least read through it and hear it yet again. 1 Timothy 3 says, The saying is trustworthy.

If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. Therefore, an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money.

He must manage his own household well with all dignity, keeping his children submissive. For if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil.

Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil. Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain.

They must hold the ministry of the faith with a clear conscience, and let them also be tested first. Then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless. Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things.

Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their households well. For those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

All right, so let's just for a moment consider the fact that the qualifications for an elder and a deacon are not that different. Now, I think I put this in the book. What? Yeah, I was going to ask, what's the big distinction?

Preaching and teaching. The one thing that elders have to be able to do that deacons do not have to be able to do is teach. The phrase apt to teach is the ESV. The ability to teach is a necessity for an elder.

Now, some churches don't believe that, especially in many Presbyterian churches. You have two different elder positions. You have what's known as a teaching elder and a ruling elder. So like in our church, all of our elders would be teaching elders because they all teach.

But let's say that there was an elder that didn't teach, but he was really good with administration. They would say he's not a teaching elder, he's a ruling elder. And I do understand the logic behind that, but I don't believe that their biblical distinction can be made because under the qualifications of an elder is the qualification that he be able to teach.

That does not necessarily mean that he is the most gifted preacher that ever walked the face of the earth. I do believe that there is a difference between the gift of teaching and the gift of prophecy.

And I'll talk about this in class five when we talk about gifting. I believe prophecy doesn't always mean the gift to speak the future, but rather to proclaim God's word. And that is what I believe my gifting is, is the proclamation of God's word.

And so somebody would say, well, you're a gifted teacher. Well, I think that prophecy is my primary gift. I would say teaching is the secondary gift, but primarily would be prophecy, the proclamation of the word.

But there are other elders who aren't as gifted in preaching. But maybe are able to teach. But the point, and we'll talk again, and when we get to that class, I'll distinguish it a little more. If a man cannot do either, if there is no gifting to either, then he is not qualified to be an elder as we understand it.