June 21, 2022 Show with Dr. Scott Aniol on “Worship: Aberrant Movements in History that Removed the Bible as its God-Breathed Blueprint”

Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

It's iron sharpens iron.

This is a radio platform in which pastors Christian scholars and theologians Address the burning issues facing

the church and the world today.

Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us.

Iron sharpens iron so one man sharpens another.

Matthew Henry said that in this passage We are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to

have in view in conversation To make one another wiser and better.

It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours.

And we hope to hear from you the listener with your own questions.

And now here's your host Chris Arnzen.

Good.

Afternoon, Cumberland County, Pennsylvania Lake City, Florida and the rest of humanity living on the planet

Earth who are listening via live -streaming at iron sharpens iron Radio .com.

This is Chris Arnzen your host of iron sharpens iron radio wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this

21st day of June 2022.

I'm thrilled to have a first -time guest today at the very

enthusiastic Recommendations of Josh Bice who is

founder of g3 ministries and also a Virgil Walker.

Who is.

Involved very much in the orchestration of the g3 ministry conferences and his

name is dr Scott Annie all and he is an author.

He is the executive vice president and editor an editor -in -chief of g3 ministries and

a professor of pastoral theology at Grace Bible Theological Seminary in

Conway, Arkansas.

Today we are going to be addressing worship aberrant movements in history

that removed the Bible as its God -breathed blueprint and it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for

the very first time ever to Iron sharpens iron radio.

Dr. Scott Annie all.

Yeah, thanks so much Chris so glad to to be with you.

Am I pronouncing your last name correctly.

Yeah, close.

It's annual.

I tell people it's like Daniel without a D.

Okay.

Or like the annual g3 conferences.

Whatever whatever whatever it takes to remember the pronunciation I've.

I've heard all sorts of pronunciations and nothing surprises me.

Well.

Tell our listeners for those of them that are unfamiliar with g3 ministries and if

that's the case, they must be new listeners to this program because They are regularly featured

on this program through interviews and through advertisements.

But in case we do have some new listeners tell our listeners about g3 ministries.

G3 ministry started as g3 conference about 10 years ago.

Here at Praise Mill Baptist Church in Douglasville, Georgia.

You mentioned Josh Josh Bice a moment ago.

He's the pastor here and started the conference just out of a desire to have a solid Theology

conference that focused on the Word of God intended for it just to be really for the local

community, but Very quickly realized that there was a need and a

thirst for a conference like this.

So the first year sold out filled the church the next several years filled the church and the conference continued to

grow moved to a large convention center in Atlanta and just this past

October and September beginning of October the conference had 6 ,500 people and so it's

really grown focused on the sufficiency of scripture and sound theology and Then

about a year ago about a year and a half ago Josh decided to expand the

conference to be a full -blown ministry to go continue doing conferences but also to

start being a content producing ministry as well and so

Formed a formed, you know d3 ministries as a nonprofit brought on Virgil Walker

to be executive director of operations basically to run all of the events the conferences

the Workshops and those sorts of things and then brought me on just this past fall to sort

of help with the Administrative aspects of the ministry going forward and then also to

really spearhead a lot of the content production.

So now at g3 min org, there's regular blog content that goes up every day

podcast audio videos.

We're publishing free curricula for churches to download that can be a help and then we also

launch g3 press.

We're publishing books on various theological and practical Christian top topics.

We launched a theological journal just last month.

And so we're really starting to ramp up a lot of resources that we hope will be helpful for

local churches and Christian families.

Certainly in this country and around the world.

Great, and if anybody wants more information about g3 ministries, you could go to g3

min org g3 min org.

Now tell us about the upcoming G3 regional conference in Washington DC.

It's the first regional conference I will be attending and I have been

to at least six g3 conferences.

I believe this is my seventh if I'm not mistaken but this is the first regional conference.

Every conference I've ever been to has been in Atlanta and.

The.

This is interesting because not only is this my first Regional conference.

It is the first g3 conference ever outside of Washington DC.

I mean outside of Georgia.

I understand right, right.

That's right.

Yeah a nine years of the conference.

It was an annual conference here in In Georgia, and then when

when Josh and the team decided to expand the ministry.

They moved to making the national conference just a an every other year event.

So our last one was this past October and the next National conference will be a

year from this fall here in Atlanta and on the off years.

We're doing two Regional conferences.

So just this past February we had our first regional conference.

Although it was here in Douglasville at Praise Mill Baptist Church.

It was the 10 -year anniversary.

So it was fitting to sort of bring it back home to where it all began.

And so this second regional conference now in the fall will be the first as you mentioned outside of

Atlanta.

And it will be in Washington DC that area on September 15

through 17.

It's being called just thinking about the Bible g3 ministries and the just thinking

Podcasts with Daryl Harrison and of course Virgil Walker.

We have a very close relationship our two ministries together.

And so they're sort of Operating with us on this conference just thinking about the

Bible at the conference on the subject of biblical sufficiency so Daryl and Virgil will both be

speaking.

Josh Bice and I will both be speaking and then also we have Steve Lawson and James White

coming to speak as well on topics related to the authority and sufficiency of Scripture.

So it's it's September 15 through 17.

The first two days of the conference are at Emanuel Bible Church in Springfield, Virginia.

Just outside of DC and then the final day Saturday will be at the Museum of

the Bible in Washington, DC.

Ticket for the museum is included in the conference registration.

We'll have one Presentation by a speaker at the Museum of the Bible and then opportunities to

see the museum, which is really a wealth of Exhibits about the scriptures

and so this will be a wonderful Conference we're really looking forward to it and I would love for as

many as possible to attend.

To really focus our attention on this important doctrine of the sufficiency of Scripture and once again go to g3

min.

Org g3 min org for more details on the conference as well and You're going

to have to excuse the radio commercials for the g3

regional conference because it Does not include my guest Scott annual

in the ad because the ad was recorded before Scott was added to the speaking roster so

Just so you know when you're hearing the ads you're going to hear all the other speakers mentioned except for Scott has nothing to do

with Us thinking less of Scott It just happened to

be according to the timing.

I did not know that Scott was going to be edited and I don't think anybody else knew for certain either until

more recently.

And what are you specifically speaking on there?

So I'm going to speak on the issue on the role of the Holy Spirit.

And we're going to talk about worship today.

That's really kind of my primary area of focus.

I taught for 10 years at Southwestern Baptist Seminary in Fort Worth courses on

history and theology of worship and The doctrine of the Holy Spirit is one in which

I think especially in our day and age among broad evangelicalism and

we have a little bit of Burn theology that has crept into our doctrine of the

Holy Spirit we might claim to be cessationist to believe that for instance the

Miraculous sign gifts have ceased and the word is sufficient.

And yet we've been influenced in subtle ways by by my various outside

Theologies that have in some ways I think Shifted our thinking and so I want to address the

issue of the doctrine of the Holy Spirit and really Demonstrate from Scripture that the Spirit works

through the word that he inspired.

We want the Holy Spirit to work.

We believe in the Holy Spirit.

We believe that he is active in the lives of Believers and in converting unbelievers.

But I think Scripture is clear that in this age The way that the Holy Spirit works is through the word that

he inspired and so I'm going to make that case Lord willing in my in my presentation

great.

Oh, I'm looking forward to it.

And.

As you know on this program we have a tradition Where every time we have a first -time

guest that guest gives a summary of his or her salvation story that

would include the kind of religious atmosphere you were raised in if any and The

providential circumstances our sovereign Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself

and saved you.

So let's hear your story.

Yeah, absolutely, so I grew up in Michigan grew up in a strong Christian home.

Went to a Christian day school was in church, you know.

Literally a week after I was born, you know every Sunday every Wednesday that sort of thing and then you know Being in a

Christian school was literally at the church every day of the week almost.

So I had a lot of strong Christian influence on me for which I am very thankful.

Protected me from a lot of negative influences that certainly could have impacted me.

But as is often the case with with children who grew up in Christian homes, I had a very

early profession of faith.

At a very young age, but looking back it was clear.

I knew what was expected of me.

I knew what would please my parents, you know, I didn't want to go to hell.

I wanted to escape that.

And so I prayed a prayer and and made that profession and was very very quickly baptized.

But it was not a true conversion.

There was no true repentance of sin it was simply sort of a cultural thing to do and

again being in a good Christian home and being in a Christian environment in school and and

regularly in church, you know, I didn't get a lot of get into a lot of trouble.

I conformed Externally from the outside anyone looking at my life would have thought this is

a good young Christian man but into my teenage years

My true spiritual condition began to evidence itself.

Which really was a great, you know, we talked about those teenage years as being years of rebellion and

Push back against authority and that's certainly true and it's sort of natural as young people grow.

And for me that was a blessing because it began to reveal Some things about the true condition of my heart

and my parents began to challenge me about the about where I was with the Lord

and when I was about 13 years old after a big confrontation with my parents in which they really

pressed me about my About my walk with the Lord and my conversion.

I recognized that I hadn't truly repented of my sins and so I came under conviction of the Holy Spirit and

Believed that that's when he really did that work within my heart to awaken me to my need of

salvation.

And so, you know from that point on Externally, not a lot really changed because I was already sort of living in kind of a

Christian environment and conforming to a standard but Certainly, I recognized

internally that my motivation for things changed my desire to

Battle sin and I didn't become perfect by any stretch, but I began to hate my sin and and

Want to please the Lord and those sorts of things and so in those, you know remaining years at

home and growing up in in the environment there began to really sense

the sanctifying work of the of the Spirit through the word as well as giving me a desire to

be involved in Study of the scripture and communicating scripture to to others in the context of local

church ministry.

And so those were some ways that the Lord showed me the the fruit of of a

change that had absolutely occurred internally.

Because of that that time conversion, so I'm very really thankful for that the way the Lord worked in my

life during those years.

Praise God and when did you come to discover and embrace The doctrines

of Sovereign Grace also called Performed Theology and Nicknamed Calvinism.

Yeah, so we the church that we were in in sort of my middle school and high school

years our Pastor him.

He was attending Detroit Baptist Theological Seminary which is a

Calvinistic seminary and he himself was becoming more Calvinistic and so

really during my most formative years I watched him grow

theologically and began to communicate these things and even I mentioned I was in a Christian school and

The Bible teacher that I had in my high school years was also at the same seminary.

So he you know taught the doctrines of grace and so I might distinctly remember

You know be first encountering the doctrine of election in a class.

There may be a ninth tenth grade and at first bristling, but very quickly within a day or

two.

Just recognizing the truth of it.

And so to be really convinced of these things in my high school years, which again I'm

also thankful for that that I was, you know formed in that way theologically at an early age

and it wasn't like, you know many stories that you hear of of People come to the doctrines of grace

later in life.

I came to embrace these truths very early and so praise God.

Well, we have a theme ahead of us that I've already announced, but I'll repeat it.

I think it's a very important theme.

Worship aberrant movements in history that remove the Bible as its God

-breathed.

Blueprint.

There has never been a period of History where the church was pristine.

The church has always been comprised of sinners and We see even in the scriptures

themselves the earliest disciples sinning and

making errors and doing things the wrong way and having to be corrected, but as far as

a Worship that has been dominated by

Using the Bible as a God -breathed blueprint where you

see from the hymnody and even the orders

of worship that have been revealed in the writings of various Christians throughout

the centuries.

Where do you see a decline beginning from What

some have called the regulative principle where we as Christians

only Are involved in things that are commanded in the New Testament

or are provided by way of example.

And of course some of those things that involve worship in the New Testament.

Include.

Old covenant things like the singing of Psalms.

But.

Obviously some of those things have been completely fulfilled in Christ, and it would actually be

wrong as the Judaizers attempted to insist upon

circumcision and so on but which made their gospel null and void

according to the Apostle Paul, but as far as the Regulative principle as

far as the the obvious Meticulous and

Strict adherence to the scriptures as a blueprint for worship.

When do you see this begin to decline?

Yeah, I mean, I

think as the authority, you

know, I often think of Calvin's, you know Famous statement that our hearts are we

tend to not want to trust in this efficiency of the word.

So this kind of thing does occur over and over and over again Through the course of biblical history and then

church history if we're talking about post New Testament church history.

I think there are two in which there is

being regulated by the word to the degree that there needs to be a needs to be a reformation

of that biblical emphasis and The first would be during the Middle Ages.

We think of the of the Middle Ages as a time in which theology became aberrant

You know what we now would call Roman Roman Catholic theology began to begin to be developed

obviously leading up to the need for reformation in the 15th and 16th

centuries and certainly the gospel was you know that the doctrine

of justification was lost and so many other things but we often forget that it

really all stem a distrust in the

sufficient word.

There's a reason that all of these heresies and aberrant theological positions

Crept into the church and that is because of a lack of trust in the into the the authority

And sufficiency of the word and this includes in worship.

What you find happening in in this period is the introduction of lots of

creative Inventive Practices in the context of worship

that either don't have any biblical warrant whatsoever.

Or as you mentioned a moment ago might there might have been an attempt to look to the Old

Testament as Support for various practices that were introduced into the

church without Recognizing the ways that those things had been fulfilled in Christ and therefore had

passed away.

And so it doesn't happen overnight very gradually during the Middle Ages a lot of

things began to enter into corporate worship that I would you know suggest

and the reformers when they When they reacted against them argued were not Commanded in the

scriptures.

So everything from you know, some things that might look less Offensive like the

lighting of incense or the lighting of candles or you know The crossing of oneself or some of

these rituals and ceremonies the processions the priestly Vestments, you

know, those might not seem so theologically aberrant, but they again were not to be

found prescribed for sure for the New Testament Church.

And then of course the extreme things that were clearly theologically aberrant.

Like the adding on of additional sacraments and not only that but ascribing Gracious

effects to them to the degree that it became meritorious.

Your your activities in these worship elements would actually Merit you grace

from the Lord and those sorts of things.

Prayers to the Saints prayer to Mary prayer, you know veneration of icons all

of those are errors that crept in that the reformers Responded to

but they again they all stand not trusting in the

sufficiency of the word to regulate how we worship and.

So the reformers came along and they they responded with the battle cry of sola scriptura.

And at least in the Reformed wing of the Reformation, maybe we can talk about this a little bit more in a moment.

But this emphasis on what we now call the regulative principle, although it is interesting even with someone like

Luther.

Especially in the early years he articulated things very similarly to how we would describe the

regulative principle as well.

Maybe we can talk about that in a moment.

But then the second big shift after the Reformation

scripture and the authority of scripture.

In Protestant, you know what?

We would call Protestant circles now today the second big shift away from the sufficiency of

scripture I would suggest occurred During 19th century

revivalism.

And then on into the Holiness movement and then eventually Pentecostal ism.

Really beginning a little bit a little bit in the in the rural camp meeting

revivals in America but becoming even more significantly problematic

in the teaching and practice of Charles Finney there was a distinct and perfect

from the Trust in the sufficiency of the word as to what we do in

corporate worship rather Finney and then those after him because of their

theological belief that each person has within him or her

dormant moral powers Finney called them Belief that that we have

within ourselves the spark of divinity that just needs to be waken up.

Finney argued that in order to wake up those dormant more moral powers.

We can't just do the same old things.

We've always done.

We can't just practice these things that the church has always done because scripture tells us to do these

things.

No, we need to include we need to introduce into our worship what Finney called new

measures.

Because by introducing new things we can shake people up we can

Awaken those dormant moral powers and we can move them to conversion and the spiritual

revival.

And so that began another significant shift in the history of the church in

which churches began to purposely introduce creative Inventive

measures in their corporate worship practices that go beyond What

scripture has prescribed so I would say those are the two church history

both of which? required a reformation.

One of those reformations happened and The second one, you know in some circles is in the

process of happening.

And that's I think something that definitely needs to continue.

Especially among reformed Christians that we need to recover This doctrine not just

the doctrines of grace as important as they are but also this doctrine of the sufficiency of the word.

Regulating everything about what we do in our churches including our worship practices.

Well, we have to go to our first Commercial break right now, and if you would like to send in a question to

Scott annual Senator Chris Arnzen at gmail .com see HR is a

are n Zen and gmail .com.

As always give us your first name at least your city and state of residence in your country of residence.

If you live outside the USA, please only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and

private matter.

Let's say you are in a church.

Where you are uncomfortable because you are witnessing things happening that you believe

violate the Word of God that are that are coming into the

worship of Christ during those services and.

And You don't want to identify yourself because you don't want everybody in your church to begin to

attack you in some way or perhaps you're even a pastor and You're

rethinking the way that worship is conducted in your own congregation or you're having

Disagreements with your own fellow elders or whatever the case is that would compel you to remain anonymous.

Please only remain anonymous if it is something that is indeed personal and private.

You you don't want to identify yourself as if it's a general question, please provide your first name City

and state and country of residence and don't go away.

We're going to be right back with Scott annual and our discussion on worship right after these messages from our

sponsors.

James White of Alpha and Omega ministries here excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of iron sharpens iron radio

and I Are heading to Washington DC for the g3 ministries regional conference on the theme

Just thinking about the Bible.

The conference will be held Thursday, September 15th through Saturday, September 17th.

And I'll be speaking along with Steven Lawson Josh vice founder of g3 ministries and Daryl Bernard

Harrison and Virgil Walker co -hosts of the just thinking podcast.

To register visit g3 min org.

That's g3 min org and click on events.

Your registration will include a ticket to the Museum of the Bible nearby the conference venue in Washington DC.

So join me and Chris Arnzen September 15th through the 17th in Washington DC to the g3

ministries regional conference.

Register now before they run out of seats at g3 min org.

That's g3 min org.

Stop by the iron sharpens iron radio Exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnzen while you're there.

When iron sharpens iron radio first launched in 2005 The publishers of the New American

Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the iron sharpens iron radio audience have been

sticking with or switching to the NASB.

This is Daryl Bernard Harrison co -host of the just thinking podcast and the NASB is

my Bible of choice.

I'm pastor Tom Buck at First Baptist Church of Lindale, Texas, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm pastor Kent Keller of Faith Bible Church in Sharpsburg, Georgia, and the NASB is my Bible of

choice.

I'm Andrew Rapport the founder and executive director at striving for eternity ministries and

the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Mark Romaldi pastor of Sovereign Grace Church of Greenbrier, Tennessee, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm Christopher Cookston pastor of Prineville Community Church in Prineville, Oregon

and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Matt Tarr pastor of High Point Baptist Church in Larksville, Pennsylvania, and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

Here's a great way for your church to help keep iron sharpens iron radio on the air.

Pastors are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them

from Chris Arnzen on iron sharpens iron radio.

Go to nasbible .com.

That's nasbible .com to place your order.

As a mother I was looking for a magazine that would include devotionals that I

could quickly do before school and Had theology and doctrine made very simple for children to

understand that they could read themselves.

Or I could walk them through.

There's tiered Content so that you can go to the older group and learn more or go to a younger

section, and it's even more simple.

Join us on our journey in developing our magazine entitled ignited by the word Which

engages and ignites the hearts of our children and young people in their walk with God.

Order ignited by the word for your home today at ignited by the word org.

Learn more information and subscribe now at ignited by the word org and Receive your first

two issues free and put good literature in your children's hands.

If you're near retirement or thinking about retiring you probably have questions.

How do you make your savings last.

How much should you take out?

And when you're ready for retirement, but are your finances art?

Amundsen and Edward Jones financial advisor can help you build a strategy to help make sure your

finances keep up with your long -term needs.

Do what it takes to get there now?

It's time to make the most of retirement.

Visit Edward Jones comm.

That's Edward Jones comm or

call 7 1 7 2 5 8 4 6 8 8.

7 1 7 2 5 8 4 6 8 8.

We here at iron sharpens iron radio are forever grateful for the generous financial Support

of art Amundsen.

Edward Jones financial advisor in Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

Call 7 1 7 2 5 8 4 6 8 8 today.

Such a blessing to hear from iron sharpens iron radio listeners from all over the world.

Here's Joe Reilly a listener in Ireland who wants you to know about a guest on the show.

He really loves hearing interviewed.

Dr. Joe.

More craft.

I'm Joe Reilly a faithful iron sharpens iron radio listener here in a toy in County Kildare Ireland.

Going back to 2005 one of my very favorite guests on iron sharpens iron is dr Joe

more craft.

If you've been blessed by iron sharpens iron radio, dr More craft and heritage Presbyterian Church of coming

Georgia are largely thank you since they are one of the program's largest financial supporters.

Heritage Presbyterian Church of coming is in Forsyth County a part of the Atlanta metropolitan area.

Heritage is a thoroughly biblical church Unwaveringly committed to Westminster standards and dr Joe more

craft is the author of an eight -volume commentary and the larger catechism.

Heritage is a member of the Hanover Presbyterians built upon the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets

Jesus Christ himself being the chief cornerstone and tracing its roots and heritage back to the great Protestant

Reformation of the 16th century.

Heritage maintains and follows the biblical truth and principles proclaimed by the Reformers Scripture alone

grace alone faith alone Christ alone and God's glory alone.

Their primary goal is the worship of the Triune God that continues in eternity.

For more details on heritage Presbyterian Church of coming Georgia visit heritage Presbyterian Church

calm.

That's heritage Presbyterian Church calm are called six seven eight nine five four seven

eight three one.

That's six seven eight nine five four seven eight three one.

If you visit tell them Joe Roy the iron sharpens iron radio listener my toy in County Kildare, Ireland

sent you.

Hello.

My name is Anthony Vino and I'm one of the pastors at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Quorum, New York.

And also the host of the reform rookie comm website.

I want you to know that if you enjoy listening to the iron sharpens iron radio show like I do.

You can now find it on the Apple's iTunes app by typing iron sharpens iron radio in the search bar.

You no longer have to worry about missing a show or a special guest because you're in your car or still at work.

Just subscribe on the iTunes app and listen to the iron sharpens iron radio show at any time day or night.

Please be sure to also give it a good review and pass it along to anyone who would benefit from the teaching and the many

Solidly reformed guests that Chris Arnson has on the show.

Truth is so hard to come by these days.

So don't waste your time with fluff or fake news.

Subscribe to the iron sharpens iron radio podcast right now.

And while you're at it, you can also sign up for the reform rookie comm podcast and visit our website and the YouTube

page.

We are dedicated to teaching Christian theology from a reformed Baptist perspective to beginners in the faith as

well as seasoned believers.

From Keach's Catechism and the doctrines of grace to the Olivet Discourse and the book of Leviticus.

The reformed rookie podcast and YouTube channel is sure to have something to offer everyone seeking biblical truth.

And finally, if you're looking to worship in a reformed church that holds to the 1689 London Baptist Confession

of Faith.

Please join us at Hope Reform Baptist Church in Coram, New York again.

I'm pastor Anthony video and thanks for listening.

If you love iron sharpens iron radio One of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is

by supporting our advertisers.

One such faithful Advertiser who really believes in what Chris Hansen is doing is

Daniel P Patafuco serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist.

Dan is the president and founder of the historical Bible Society.

Their mission to foster belief in the credibility of Scripture as the written Word of God.

They go to various churches schools and institutions to publicly display a rare

collection of biblical texts.

Along with a fascinating presentation by mr. Butter Fuco.

Demonstrating the reliability of Scripture to advance the cause of the gospel.

They created a beautiful perfect facsimile of the genealogy of Jesus Christ.

From the original engravings contained in a first edition 1611 King James Bible.

This 17th century hand engraved chart shows the family tree of Jesus Christ.

Going back to Adam and Eve.

This book is complete with gorgeous full -size illustrations of Noah's Ark and the Tower of

Babel and an Explanation of why the genealogy of Jesus is so important for his claims

to the throne of the universe.

Originals of this work are in museums and nobody has ever made it accessible to the

public in a large book form before.

You can have your own copy of this 44 page genealogy book for a donation of $35

or more.

Visit historical Bible Society dot org that's historical Bible

Society Dot org.

Thanks for helping to keep iron sharpens iron radio on the air.

Welcome back.

This is Chris Sorensen.

If you just tuned us in our guest today for the entire program is Scott annual.

Who is an author executive vice president and editor -in -chief of? G3 ministries and

professor of pastoral theology at Grace Bible Theological Seminary in Conway, Arkansas.

In fact, I should I should mention before I forget to that the

founder and president of that Fine institution is going to be on my

program this week.

In fact, he's going to be on tomorrow Jeff Johnson.

So that will be Wednesday, June 22nd.

Make sure that you listen in to Jeff Johnson on the program and in fact, we

have to settle on a topic because I don't think Jeff and I picked one yet.

But.

We are addressing as I said earlier worship aberrant movements in history that remove the Bible as its

God -breathed Blueprint and our email address is Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Chris Arnson at gmail .com.

Give us your first name at least your city and state and country of residence.

And before I go to any listener questions, I want to go back to something that you said

before the break.

You said that you wanted to address some of Luther's comments on?

Worship because it is interesting out of the Reformers.

He seemed to be according to my knowledge the least Committed and faithful to the

regulative principle if at all he Seemed to want to

carry on some things that the Church of Rome

Is famous for such as The icons and the

statues not that he would believe in venerating them.

But he didn't seem to.

He was very opposed to the iconoclast movement The group that was seeking to

Destroy all those things and remove them from houses of worship.

But if you could continue with your greater level of expertise on Luther than I have.

Yeah, no

things, you know, I mean Calvin sort of came

right?

I mean a very young age.

He knew what he believed he wrote it down and he revises the Institute's, you know over time but

very very little Luther you really see a progression of thought and.

What I think is fascinating is from about 15 17 to 15 24 or

so.

Those early years of the Reformation.

He writes a number of treatises about worship.

One of them is called the Babylonian captivity of the church and another one is called the misuse of the mass and

He he really sounds like Calvin.

He's saying things like we ought to only do in worship what has been prescribed for us

in the Holy Scriptures.

And and language like that, which which sounds like Zing Lee.

It sounds like Booth dirt sounds like Calvin.

It sounds like those who would later be much more well known for what we call the regulative principle.

But over time Luther does begin to shift he does begin to

Effective on that.

What's interesting is, you know, he you mentioned correctly that he certainly is not in

favor of the veneration of icons or You know or those sorts of things that the Roman Catholic

Church had introduced that were clearly in contradiction.

But what were things that had come into practice?

For which there was neither a Luther

begins.

He calls those things Adiaphora, which is simply a Greek word that means Indifferent

things he says they are not these practices are not like the Roman Catholic Church

argues Meritorious they don't give us any special grace.

They're indifferent.

And.

Calvin he says yes, they are adiaphora.

Where they differ is what we ought to do with adiaphora.

Calvin says if it's adiaphora.

Meaning it's indifferent because it's not been prescribed in Scripture.

Then we ought not to do it because we need to trust that God has given us The sufficient word and

God has the prerogative to determine how he wants to be worshipped.

And so we ought not add any additional practices over time.

Luther and it's really.

It's really a past story of this.

I Still think in error, but I understand his heart.

He would he would late 1525 or so.

He would start to say things like You know if if this particular practice has

not been prescribed.

But it would be hard for the congregation to get rid of it.

You can continue to do it if you if you'd like to he you know.

He would say you don't have to.

We certainly don't want to do the things that are consciously heretical.

But things that like priestly vestments or the lighting of candles or some level of

icons just for teaching purposes not for veneration.

Luther began to over time allow them and it really was

Lutheran Theologians and really then press,

you know, he kind of waffles really through the entirety of his life.

But Philip Melanchthon and others who come after him.

Who begin to sort of formulate some of the confessional statements for or the loot, you know Orthodox

Lutheranism.

They then put in writing these things are the opera you can continue to do them if you'd like

and so now we look back at what happened during that period and we sort of described that as

the normative principle of worship in contrast to a regulative principle

now and unless you want to.

Continue the thread of the 16th century or even the

17th.

I will leap forward 300 years to Finney who you also mentioned and

one of the glaring additions to a worship service that I believe.

Was.

The the product of Finney Were what has been called the altar

calls.

I believe they were originally called the anxious bench But became known as the altar calls.

It's it's quite fascinating that the vast majority of my

very dear friends in the independent fundamentalist Baptist movement Have Walter

crawls, but they don't have an altar.

So.

This has become one of the reasons it's one of the most disturbing of the

innovations Into the worship service that are not in the scripture is that they have

become Treated like a third ordinance in the church.

If you do not conduct these Walter calls you are considered a liberal you are considered

someone who does not care about the lost.

You don't believe in the need of evangelizing.

I can recall having quite a number of conversations with

Non reformed friends or acquaintances who have visited

the churches where I have been a member over the years and They'll say to me afterwards.

I can't believe your pastor blew it.

He preached a great sermon and Right at that point at the end He should have made that

altar call because he would have had him in the palm of their hands and he blew it.

He didn't do the altar call.

I can't believe it.

You know you hear these reactions and you know, you can understand if someone has had this as a part of

their church life sometimes from infancy or As long as they've been

a born -again believer, you can see how that would immediately jump out as being Alarmingly

absent, but if you could pick up where I left off there.

Yeah, no, absolutely invent the altar call.

They began to appear during the camp meeting revivals a little earlier, but he certainly popularized them.

And he he had theological I

communicate to people like you were talking about Who you know who demand we've got to have this and who

even use that kind of language, you know.

You reach this Emotional moment and you've got to take advantage of that and if you lose that then you lose the

lose the power at the moment.

Really that that is the underlying theology that that

Finney had himself and was Perpetuating through these practices these new

measures that he was introducing including the altar call.

I mentioned earlier Finney did not believe in human depravity.

He believed that that within them

natural abilities.

You know that they needed in order to Obey God perfectly in order to come to Christ

and what he argued is all is to be induced

to attributes as he ought.

So that was his underlying theology to

get people to the point where they can exercise their own powers and attributes and

that of ministry we

need to use the appropriate means in order to Awaken that excitement in order

to to move people emotionally.

So that they will be be awakened to use, you know they're their natural

abilities and that's reflected in some of the responses like you mentioned when people are Upset that

you know churches don't use the altar call.

They use that language and it really betrays a Theology in which

we again are not trusting the sufficiency of the word.

We're really not even trusting the sufficiency of the Spirit of God.

To do the work that he's promised to do through the preached word and through the regular means of grace.

It's it's really I think a burden upon the preacher that it's up to the

preacher to Get people down the aisle to get people to make a decision.

And I've been in services like like you were talking about where you can tell the preacher

feels that weight.

And if people are not walking down the aisle If there's not a lot of things happening He

feels like he's not, you know, he's not achieved what he was

supposed to do.

When really it is very liberating to know that we preach

it with urgency.

We call people to repentance.

We call people to decision.

Absolutely.

Whenever the word of pre with the word is preached People ought to respond in some way.

But it's not the preachers job.

That's the work of the Holy Spirit.

We must urgently preach the word and then trust that his word will not return void.

And that doesn't mean that there will always be some sort of exciting or

observable Movement of the Holy Spirit in a service.

Sometimes the Holy Spirit of God moves quietly and in slow

progressive ways of sanctification in a person's heart we simply need to be faithful and I think

that's liberating to know that if we do what God has commanded us to do as preachers and all of us

as believers if we faithfully share the sufficient word if we faithfully share the gospel

and then we hand it over to the Lord to do the actual work of conversion and sanctification.

That is that's the proper Biblical place for for our role and then and then

God's role in all of this and again, it really it comes back to trusting what

God has given us and and Finney very

God had given us he he preached a sermon called the

tradition of the elders in Which he talked about the fact that we need to get rid of all this Tradition that we've

inherited from Scripture and we need to introduce these new things.

He was even so bold to say things like, you know Jesus and his apostles had miracles to

awaken people's dormant moral powers.

And so we need to do things, you know in our day and age in our cultural context that will awaken

people as well.

But they were all you know things that went beyond Scripture including What's probably the most well -known?

New measure and that is the altar call.

Well, we have to go to our midway break now.

If anybody has a question for Scott annual please Email us at Chris

Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

As always give us your first name at least your city and state and your country of residence.

I hope that those who have submitted questions already will be patient with us.

We'll get to as many of your questions as we possibly can before the end of the program.

Please also be patient with us as We take the longer the normal break in the middle of the show as we

always do because grace life radio 90 .1 FM in Lake City, Florida requires of us a longer

break in the middle.

Because of the FCC requires of them to localize iron sharpens iron radio

Geographically to Lake City, Florida and they do that with their public service announcements and other local things that

we need.

Simultaneously air our globally heard commercials.

So use this time wisely please respond to as many of our advertisers as you can at the very least

respond to them by thanking them that thanking them for Sponsoring this program because

we absolutely need our advertisers to exist.

And if you love this show Thank them for sponsoring the show and keeping us on the air and also sending your questions to

Scott annual the Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We're gonna be right back after these messages with more Scott annual.

Attention all men in ministry leadership.

You're all invited to my friend Chris Arnzen's iron sharpens iron radio free pastors luncheon.

Thursday September 22nd 11 a .m. To 2 p .m. At Church of the Living Christ in Loisville,

Pennsylvania.

Featuring me James White of Alpha Omega Ministries your keynote speaker.

Not only will you enjoy a wonderful time of fellowship with your colleagues in ministry over a delicious meal.

But you'll also receive dozens of free brand -new books.

Donated by Christian publishers all over the United States and the United Kingdom.

Personally selected by Chris Arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio.

So if you're a pastor an elder a deacon a parachurch leader or any other man in ministry leadership.

Please register for the iron sharpens iron radio free pastors luncheon today by

calling 631 291 7002 631

291 7002 or by visiting iron sharpens iron radio .com

iron sharpens iron radio .com.

This is James White of Alvin Omega Ministries hoping to see you Thursday, September 22nd 11 a

.m To 2 p .m. At Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania.

For Chris Arnzen's iron sharpens iron radio free pastors

luncheon.

Dr. Joseph Piper.

President emeritus and professor of systematic and applied theology at Greenville Presbyterian

Theological Seminary every Christian who's serious about the deformed faith and the Westminster standards

should have and use the eight volume commentary on the theology and ethics of the Westminster larger

catechism titled Authentic Christianity by dr. Joseph more craft.

It is much more than an exposition of the larger catechism.

It is a thoroughly researched work utilizes biblical exegesis as well as historical and

systematic theology.

Dr. Moore craft is pastor of Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia.

And I urge everyone looking for a biblically faithful church in that area to visit that fine

congregation.

For details on the eight volume commentary go to.

Westminster commentary calm.

Westminster commentary calm.

For details on Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia Visit Heritage Presbyterian

Church dot -com.

Heritage Presbyterian Church dot -com.

Please tell dr. Moore craft and the Saints at Heritage Presbyterian Church of Cumming, Georgia.

That dr. Joseph Piper of Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary sent you

Anchored in truth ministries is the mission arm of Grace Life Church of the Shoals.

Based in Alabama, it supports missionaries in over 13 countries around the world.

Anchored in truth is in partnership with 36 church plants as well as radio stations

Theological seminaries and various programs for unreached people groups.

With a name to glorify God and reach the nations with the gospel.

It is a blessing to see how God has used anchored in truth in so many different contexts

globally as well as locally.

To find out more about this vital work worldwide visit anchored in truth dot

o -r -g.

How do we know we picked the right Bible.

Why do we go to church on Sunday.

Parents if your kids have questions about God's Word and his creation They would love

to read our new reformed magazine called ignited by the word.

This magazine is packed full of devotionals Bible stories church history

Poems activities and more to encourage you and kids of all ages in their

walk with God.

Created by a team of teachers Ministers mothers fathers and more we know

how important it is to have Christian literature in our homes.

Order ignited by the word for your home today at ignited by the word org.

Learn more information and subscribe now at ignited by the word org and Receive your first

two issues free

if you love.

Iron sharpens iron radio.

One of the best ways you can help keep the show on the air is by supporting our advertisers.

One such faithful advertiser who really believes in what Chris Hansen is doing is

Daniel P Patafuco serious injury lawyer and Christian apologist.

Dan is the president and founder of the historical Bible Society.

Their mission to foster belief in the credibility of Scripture as the written Word of God.

They go to various churches schools and institutions To publicly display a rare

collection of biblical texts along with a fascinating presentation by mr. Patafuco.

Demonstrating the reliability of Scripture to advance the cause of the gospel.

They created a beautiful perfect facsimile of the genealogy of Jesus Christ from the

original engravings contained in a first edition 1611 King James Bible.

This 17th century Hand -engraved chart shows the family tree of Jesus Christ

going back to Adam and Eve.

This book is complete with gorgeous full -size illustrations of Noah's Ark and the Tower of

Babel and an explanation of why the Genealogy of Jesus is so important for his claims

to the throne of the universe.

Originals of this work are in museums and nobody's ever made it accessible to the public

in a large book form before.

You can have your own copy of this 44 page genealogy book for a donation of $35

or more.

Visit historical Bible Society dot org that's Historical Bible

Society dot org.

Thanks for helping to keep iron sharpens iron radio on the air.

James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here.

If you've watched my dividing line webcast often enough You know I have a great love for getting Bibles and other

documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity.

And besides that they feel so good.

I'm so delighted I discovered post tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding.

No radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently.

But I'll give it a shot.

Jeffrey rice of post tenebrous Lux is a remarkably gifted craftsman and artisan.

All his work is done by hand from the cutting to the pleating of corners to the perimeter stitching.

Jeffrey uses the finest and buttery soft imported leathers in a wide variety of gorgeous colors like

the turquoise goat skin Tanned in Italy used for my Nestle all in 28th edition with a navy

blue goat skin inside liner and the electric blue goat skin From a French tannery used to rebind a

Reformation study Bible I used as a gift the silver gilding he added on the page edges has a stunning

mirror finish resembling highly polished chrome.

Jeffrey will customize your rebinding to your specifications and even emboss your logo into the leather.

Making whatever he rebinds a one -of -a -kind work of art.

For more details on post tenebrous Lux Bible rebinding go to PTL Bible

rebinding calm that's PTL.

Bible rebinding calm

every day at thousands of community centers high schools middle schools juvenile institutions

coffee shops and local hangouts.

Long Island Youth for Christ Staff and volunteers meet with young people who need Jesus.

We are rural and urban and we are always about the message of Jesus.

Our mission is to have a noticeable Spiritual impact on Long Island, New York by engaging young people in the lifelong

journey of following Christ.

Long Island Youth for Christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959.

We have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement To youths in

need all over the country and around the world.

Help honor our history by becoming a part of our future Volunteer.

Donate pray or all of the above for details.

Call Long Island Youth for Christ at 631 -385 -8333.

That's 631 -385 -8333.

Or visit liyfc .org.

That's liyfc .org.

When iron sharpens iron radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the New American

Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the iron sharpens iron radio audience have been

sticking with or switching to the NASB.

I'm author Gary DeMar president of American vision and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm pastor Dan LeBennett of West Hills Baptist Church in Huntington Station, New York and the NASB

Is my Bible of choice.

I'm Justin Peters of Justin Peters ministries and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm Reverend buzz Taylor author of God's Lawson and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm dr.

William Webster pastor of Grace Bible Church in Battleground, Washington founder of the

ministry Christian resources The NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm pastor Ryan Galan of Central Islip Community Church in Central Islip, New York and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm pastor Brandon Smith of Trinity Reformed Baptist Church in Jackson, Georgia.

And the NASB is my Bible of choice.

Here's a great way for your church to help keep iron sharpens iron radio on the air.

Pastors.

Are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart?

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them

from Chris Arnzen on iron sharpens iron radio.

Go to nasbible .com.

That's nasbible .com to place your order.

This pastor Bill Sousa.

Grace Church at Franklin here in the beautiful state of Tennessee.

Our congregation is one of a growing number of churches who love and support iron

sharpens iron radio financially.

Grace Church at Franklin is an independent autonomous body of believers Which strives

to clearly declare the whole counsel of God as revealed in Scripture through the person and work

of our Lord Jesus Christ and of course the end of which we strive is the glory

of God.

If you live near Franklin, Tennessee, and Franklin is just south of Nashville, maybe ten minutes.

Or you are visiting this area or you have friends and loved ones nearby.

We hope you will join us some Lord's Day in worshiping our God and Savior.

Please feel free to contact me if you have more questions about Grace Church.

Our website is grace church at Franklin org.

That's grace church at Franklin.

Dot O -r -g.

This is pastor Bill Sousa wishing you all the richest blessings of our Sovereign

Lord God Savior and King Jesus Christ today and

always.

I'm dr. Tony Costa professor of apologetics and Islam at Toronto Baptist Seminary.

I'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where I've been invited to speak and have grown to love

Hope Reformed Baptist Church in Coram, Long Island, New York pastored by Rich Jensen and Christopher

McDowell.

It's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of God like the dear saints at Hope Reformed Baptist Church in

Coram who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the

unfathomable riches of Christ in his holy word and to Enthusiastically proclaim Christ

Jesus the King and his doctrines of sovereign grace in Suffolk County, Long Island and beyond.

I hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and Receive the blessing

of being showered by their love as I have.

For more information on Hope Reformed Baptist Church Go to Hope Reformed LI .net.

That's Hope Reformed LI .net.

Or call 631 -696 -5711

That's 631 -696 -5711.

Tell the folks at Hope Reformed Baptist Church of Coram, Long Island, New York that you heard about them from Tony Costa

on Iron Sharpens Iron.

James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries here excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Aronson of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio

and I Are heading to Washington DC for the G3 Ministries regional conference on the theme

Just thinking about the Bible.

The conference will be held Thursday, September 15th through Saturday, September 17th.

And I'll be speaking along with Steven Lawson Josh Weiss founder of G3 Ministries and Daryl Bernard

Harrison and Virgil Walker co -hosts of the Just Thinking podcast.

To register visit g3min .org.

That's g3min .org and click on events.

Your registration will include a ticket to the Museum of the Bible nearby the conference venue in Washington DC.

So join me and Chris Aronson September 15th through the 17th in Washington DC to the G3

Ministries regional conference.

Register now before they run out of seats at g3min .org.

That's g3min .org.

Stop by the Iron Sharpens Iron Radio exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Aronson while you're there.

Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said.

Give yourself unto reading.

The man who never reads will never be read.

He who never quotes will never be quoted.

He will not use the thoughts of other men's brains.

Proves that he has no brains of his own.

You need to read.

Solid ground Christian books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the Prince of Preachers to heart.

The mission of solid ground Christian books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to Christians in the present and

future and To publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world.

Since its beginning in 2001 Solid ground has been committed to publish God -centered Christ exalting

books for all ages.

We invite you to go treasure hunting at solid ground books .com That's solid

-ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past or present You

can unearth from solid ground.

Solid ground Christian books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of iron sharpens iron radio.

And please always remember to mention Chris Aronson of iron sharpens iron radio whenever

you make a purchase.

They publish and bring back into print nothing, but the finest in Christian literature Dating

back to the Protestant Reformation and extending forward to our current day.

Featuring such modern -day authors as dr. James R. White of Alpha and Omega ministries.

So, please purchase frequently and generously at solid -ground -books .com Solid

-ground -books .com and always mention Chris Aronson of iron sharpens iron radio before I return

to Scott annual Who is our guest today just have a couple of more important announcements, please folks.

If you love this show and you don't want it to disappear I'm urging you please go to iron sharpens iron

radio calm and scroll down to support and click support and

You can donate instantly with a debit or credit card in that fashion if you prefer.

Snail mail.

Sending a physical check to a physical address.

Well when you click support at iron sharpens iron radio calm You will also see a physical address where

you can mail your checks made payable to iron sharpens iron radio.

If you'd like to advertise with us as long as whatever it is You're promoting is at the very least compatible with

what I believe.

You don't have to believe lockstep Identically with me, but you need to be promoting something compatible with what I believe.

Then send me an email to Chris Aronson at gmail .com and put advertising in the subject line.

We certainly do need your advertising dollars as well to continue moving forward as a

radio program.

Please never cut into the regular giving that you're accustomed to To your own

local church where you are a member in order to give iron sharpens iron radio a financial gift.

In other words Don't give your own church less than you normally give them to give us something.

Never do that.

And also please if you are really struggling to survive Wait until you are more financially

stable to send us a financial gift.

I don't want to be Responsible for having anybody taking food off of your family's dinner table or

falling behind in bills those two things are Commands of God in

Scripture to provide for your church and family providing for my radio show is obviously not a command of God.

But if you do love this show you look forward to it every day you

Benefited greatly from it and you are blessed financially above and beyond your ability to

Provide for your church and family then please share with us some of the money that God has given you

that is collecting interest in your bank account that you use for Recreational and trivial purposes,

please share some of that money with us.

If you really love the show and you don't want it to disappear go to iron sharpens iron radio .com.

Scroll down to support click that and donate instantly with a debit or credit card.

If you are not a member of a biblically faithful Christ honoring church no matter where on the planet earth you

live I May be able to help you find a church just as I have done

today with a listener in India Indira

who is moving to Munich Germany.

I found her two churches That are biblically faithful churches from which she may choose

in Munich Germany.

And I hope that she visits either or both of them.

But no matter where you live I may be able to help you because I do have extensive lists of churches spanning the globe.

So if you are in that predicament of not having a biblically faithful church home No matter where you

live on the planet earth Send me an email to Chris arms in a gmail .com and put I need a church in the subject line.

It's also the email address where you can send in a question to Scott annual and our discussion today on

Biblical worship and we do have a very faithful listener in our audience.

In fact, I See him at every g3 conference Scott.

His name is Grady from His name is Grady from Asheboro, North Carolina, and he

says greetings brothers.

I know some fellowships that have communion every Sunday and some a lot less.

How should our elders decide the frequency of communion very good question.

And I know that there seems to there seems to be.

And I happen to be personally happy about this very happy that there seems to be on the rise more and more

reformed people who want to have a weekly observance of the Lord's Supper, but

Give us your thoughts on this.

Yeah, excellent.

Excellent question.

And let me I'll let me just put a plug here.

Have blogged on this very topic recently at g3 min org.

Check out those articles if you just go there and use the search box and

Search for the Lord's Lord's table.

You'll find those articles.

Because actually praise Mill Baptist Church started observing the

table weekly in January.

Praise God.

Yeah, we're part of the church as well.

I Would say it is not biblically mandated that a church

church is not in sin if a church does not practice it weekly, however a

couple things number one.

It seems very clear that the early church in the New Testament period and and shortly thereafter

did practice it.

Every time they gather it was it was the central.

It was the central element or actually the climactic element of the service.

So, you know every element of worship is important.

The preaching is sort of the central element of the service but the climax what everything is moving toward

is the table and Unfortunately because of the abuses Theologically

of the Lord's table that occurred during the Middle Ages, which I talked about earlier

Protestant churches after you know, the Reformation and beyond I think Overreacted in some

cases by minimizing the table because of the abuses.

We can correct the errors without without minimizing the table the table was prescribed by Jesus

Christ the Apostle Paul reiterated that Prescription in 1st Corinthians chapter 11 and

if we understand the nature of what we're doing in our corporate worship each week on the Lord's Day we

are Renewing ourselves in our covenant relationship with God through Christ in the

gospel that's what we're doing when we gather and the way that God has given us to picture that

beautifully is in the Lord's Supper and.

So there are many reasons there are many benefits To observing the Lord's Supper weekly.

There are many sanctifying benefits.

There are many evangelistic benefits.

There are so many benefits to celebrate the table weekly.

Which both Josh and I have recently blogged about that.

I would strongly encourage elders to consider it.

One of the objections I often hear is that if we observe the table weekly, it will become

sort of routine.

And I actually that was the topic of my blog post a couple weeks ago.

And what I argue is that's actually a good thing.

We want it to become so routine that it shapes and forms who we are

as Christians redeemed by the by the shed blood and broken body of our Savior.

And so it's a good thing we would never say.

That preaching weekly becomes routine or singing weekly becomes routine and that's a bad thing.

No, that's a good thing that it becomes ingrained in us to the degree that if we're if we miss it

then It's it's like eating around your family table.

You take it for granted.

But if you're away from home and you miss your family meal.

Then that's something significant and that should be the same when it comes to the Lord's Supper.

So again, I wouldn't say a church is in sin if they don't observe it weekly, but I would urge churches

To consider doing it because that seems to be the biblical model and there are many spiritual benefits.

That come when a church observes the table weekly.

And it's interesting that there are some primitive Baptists who only worship once a month.

That is in regard to their corporate worship.

Not all of them but there are some that do that and I don't know if it's because they're trying to make the worship service more special or Not,

but it could be.

But if you want to continue that that logic you would do something like that, wouldn't you?

My piece is that it's a good thing when something becomes

so rings that we give our

attention to.

We do them over and over again and to a certain degree they become routine.

But in becoming routine they form habits within us that affect our lives in ways that

Sometimes we don't even recognize and I think that does happen in the table.

I've recognized that being here at Praise Mill where we celebrate the table weekly and if I'm away

at another church or You know for whatever reason if I'm not able to be here, I miss it.

It's significant because it has become so central, you know.

So centrally important to what we do each week on the Lord's Day.

Now you mentioned that there was a

An overreaction by some during and after the Reformation

to downplay The Lord's Supper because of the sacerdotalism that

existed and exists even now in Rome.

Right, but wasn't it true that?

Calvin actually was pushing for a weekly observance if not even more frequently because

Rome at the time was not Rome only having Their mass once

a year or something as infrequent as that.

Yeah, so Rome celebrated the mass, but they didn't allow

the people up for once a year the priests.

Really would that miss of the sacerdotalism that you spoke of on behalf of the people.

The people were just mere spectators.

And maybe once a year they would allow the people to partake and even then they would

only allow them to eat the bread and the priest would sort of carefully put it in the mouth of the of the Worshipper so that

the dirty rotten sinner wouldn't you know wouldn't get his filthy hands on the body of Christ, you know.

And they wouldn't they withheld the cup.

Because they were afraid that some of the blood of Jesus might accidentally sprinkle on the beard of this filthy,

you know sinner.

And so all of the reformers reacted against that for sure and said no we ought to welcome

all the you know.

All the people to the table all believers to the table and we cannot withhold the cup from the

laity.

But Zwingli was the most reactionary.

He advocated for only observing the table once a year in Reaction

against the the Roman Catholic Church and what we have to remember is that Geneva where John

Calvin pastored for most of his ministry was already reformed as part of the

Swiss Reformation of Zwingli by the time that he got there and Another emphasis of Zwingli

is he advocated really for the Union of Church and States in those Swiss

cities like Zwingli was in Zurich.

He argued that the state ought to enforce the reforms and so by the time Calvin got to

Geneva the City Council of Geneva Was not only very much influenced by by

Zwingli, but also had a lot of control over the church in Geneva

so you're exactly right in Geneva.

The City Council would not allow Calvin to celebrate the table weekly.

But Calvin for the entirety of his ministry argued that that the table should be celebrated weekly.

And what's interesting something that we often forget or maybe you don't even know Calvin wasn't even a he wasn't even

allowed to be a citizen of Geneva until toward the end of his life.

Wow really battled against the City Council for most of his ministry trying to push

forward.

Some of these reforms and he of course was very successful a lot of things.

But one of the things he never was able to implement was weekly communion even though he absolutely wanted to.

Great.

We have an anonymous listener who asks a question also about the Lord's table.

The anonymous listener says.

Some of my friends who have who are pastors are moving

From grape juice as the element in the Lord's Supper to fermented wine.

I am wondering if this is problematic For members who might have had

in the past drinking problems and if this might spark a

return to habitual drunkenness and Addiction to this substance.

What are your thoughts on the use of fermented wine?

Does the New Testament? demand either The fermented wine or the unfermented

grape juice.

Practical question for the vine

in the Lord's table is what elements of that Beverage

are necessary to argue that the the fact that

it's red obviously helping to symbolize the blood and even that it is

the fruit of the vine that it is the the the juice from From

grapes would be part of what has been commanded for us.

Is there something about the fermentation about the intoxicating

Qualities of Fermented wine that are necessary for the symbolism of the

wine in the Lord's table.

I would argue no, there's nothing about the fermentation that is necessary in the symbolism of

The so I would I would

suggest no no mandate that we have to use fermented

wine In the Lord's Supper, I would I would also note that grape juice,

although, you know our modern Grape juice, you know Welch's grape juice did not exist

in the first century, right?

However, that doesn't mean that the Beverage the wine that Jesus and his

Apostles drank at the Last Supper Was was a heavily intoxicated

beverage it it almost certainly did not have anywhere near the the

alcoholic content of modern wines.

Which which require modern prep, you know modern Winemaking

techniques in order to get that that level of intoxication.

And even in the first century, although there certainly wasn't Welch's grape juice there were ways to

to bring down the intoxicating Properties of wine so that it wouldn't be a problem

for you know for people drinking drinking the beverage and because of the

Warnings in Scripture and even the prohibition and Proverbs do not look upon the cup when it is

read.

It seems to me clear that Jesus and his Apostles and Christians in the first century would have

done whatever they could in that cultural context to diminish The

negative effects of the wine that would have caused drunkenness, which is clearly forbidden in the New Testament

and so I am of the personal opinion that it is a within

the congregation to those who for whom it would be a Challenge who may

fall into drunkenness who maybe have a history or a problem.

It is a it is a service to them not to have intoxicating beverages.

Lest it be a stumbling block to them again I think this is a sticky issue and it's not real clear and black -and -white.

But I think wisdom would lead to to that I

don't think we can say you have to have intoxicating fermented wine in order to be biblical I don't

think that that's the case biblically speaking and.

Therefore if you know of people in your congregation who have had Drinking problems never allow them to have seconds

thirds and fourths during the Lord's I can say

in regard to that Just from personal experience and my personal experience does not dictate

How other people react to these things?

But I had a very serious Drinking problem a one that even required church

discipline over a decade ago and

I have had I have never had a drop of alcohol for recreational purposes since leaving

a Christian Rehabilitation ministry in North Carolina

Hebron colony ministries, which I sing the praises about this ministry Every time I get the

opportunity.

But I've never had a recreational drop of alcohol since leaving there Over

a decade ago, but on a couple of occasions.

I've been at churches Where they have had fermented wine in their Lord's Supper and I never.

The amount is so small.

First of all, it never triggered anything in me Personally, and I

think some of it has to do with not only the tiny amount that you're drinking But it's also the purpose in

your mind.

Why you're why why you are drinking it?

You're not sitting down to have a recreational beverage With friends and so on

you're specifically doing it because you're partaking in the symbol for the blood of Christ So that's just

my two cents, but you know, what is interesting to me?

I'm wondering why the churches or many churches that have Switched

to fermented wine are not using unleavened bread in the Lord's table that seems to

write to me, it seems that the unleavened aspect of the bread which was used at the

Last supper because it was a Passover meal that would seem to have great significance.

Am I off base here?

Yeah, no, I think you're right.

When it comes to the leaven certainly the unleavened bread was necessary for the symbolism of Passover

I I don't see a necessity of unleavened bread as a symbolism for The Lord's

Supper which is although it was obviously there's a relationship between the two.

It is a new ordinance for the church.

I mean you can see symbolism of Leaven and sin and things you could maybe stretch that but in

terms of representing the body of Christ for the For the Lord's Supper.

I wouldn't I wouldn't see a necessity of bread being unleavened.

But I think you're right if someone's going to press the point that well Jesus drank Intoxicating or

you know fermented wine.

Therefore we must then they also should say the same about the the unleavened bread.

Yeah, I would just one more comment to you.

You joked about what's interesting.

We talked a moment ago about the medieval practice of withholding the cup from the laity.

And that led to a lot of drunkenness among Roman Catholic priests because they ended up having to drink the whole thing themselves.

Because people didn't drink it and they didn't want to waste any of the book the blood of Christ.

Which they believed had actually transubstantiated into the literal blood of Christ.

And so that caused a lot of problems for Roman Catholic priest.

Well, I was an altar boy because I was Roman Catholic before converting and I have

witnessed at least one priest who? Was habitually at least at some level

intoxicated During the masses where I served as an altar boy because he

had more than one mass.

He was.

He was officiating at and drinking.

I think quite a lot of wine because.

But I don't want to.

Even though I think the mass is an idolatrous blasphemy, I don't want to try to

insinuate that Most priests are becoming intoxicated at that that right

that idolatrous ritual.

Well, let's move forward to other aspects of worship that trouble you.

One of the greatest issues that divides churches that even Have has

become a litmus.

Litmus test as to where a person Worships the

church that they choose to become a member it often has involved how

Professional and beautiful the music is how much the music appeals to their

personal tastes?

And so on and so on and you have very often churches falling into the sin of

entertainment With the music they are using rather than worshiping God even if

They may think that they are worshiping God and purity very often

Entertainment is taking place.

So if you could give us your position on how music

In what ways music or people's choice of how music is Conducted in a

worship service have failed the regulative principle litmus test.

Yeah, and I think instructive is that these

same talking about in which the sufficiency and authority of the word have been

minimized in favor of

in both of those cases We see a lot of similarities in the kinds

of errors that then spire When people don't trust the

sufficiency of the word.

So in other words in both the medieval Roman Catholic problems that developed as well as in

19th century revivalism, which which moved then later in the 20th

century into Pentecostal ism is

There

of what happened so if you think about medieval Roman Catholic worship and certainly even

Roman Catholic worship to this day.

You think about the ceremony and the pomp and the smells and the bells and all of

these things that were meant to give the worshipers a very

tangible physical sense of the presence of God, which is exactly

Theologically how they interpreted what was happening and they would explain it

either in terms of heaven is coming down to us as we worship or

Through these sacramental Experiences we are being ushered into the presence of God

in the heavenlies and they would even have you know icons and various

paintings and decorations within the sanctuary that were meant

to conjure up images of heavenly worship because they they literally believed

and Roman Catholic worship to this day literally teaches that these sacramental

Experiences are giving us the presence of God in a sort of tangible sense

well, what happened later, especially in the Pentecostal movement of the 20th

century is a very similar thing taking place.

We don't often associate Worship during the Middle Middle Ages with the

worship of Pentecostal ism, but really they're falling in the same sorts of errors.

Pentecostal ism has the same theology where the goal of the worship

service is to usher us into the manifest presence of God

and they use the same sort of language either heaven is coming down to us or We

are being ushered into the heavenly worship, but instead of the

sacramental practices of the Eucharist or some of these You know Roman

Catholic errors that crept in the Middle Ages.

What Pentecostal ism ties the experience to is a certain kind of emotional music

and they even?

Call it a sacrament.

They say that music is a sacrament.

Through which we come to tangibly experience the presence of God.

Wow I never heard the presence of God is this sort of emotional feeling that we

have.

That they then interpret to be God's manifest presence, you know.

It's interesting that you say that because when I first began exploring

churches outside of Roman Catholicism where I was raised I

think that the majority of churches that I visited were charismatic and

Pentecostal other than the Church of Christ was a fairly

regular visit, but I was also visiting charismatic and Pentecostal churches

and Back in the 80s when this was happening one thing that you could count

on With a Pentecostal Church, especially if it was a denominational

Pentecostal Church rather than a charismatic Church You could count on them being

very opposed to Roman Catholicism viewing the church as

false and warning the those in the pews

not to Visit Roman Catholic churches and and so on

today.

I think that's almost vanished.

I.

Have known even personally Pentecostal and charismatic ministers who have totally

adopted the modern ecumenical movement with with Roman Catholic

priests being involved in certain celebrations and ceremonies and.

Very baffling

and that is tying

to something physical and tangible and.

Interestingly what has come to happen in modern contemporary worship?

And and by the way modern contemporary worship is at its core Rooted in charismatic

theology.

What has happened is sort of a new Sacerdotalism right.

So sacerdotalism is the idea where that a priest up in front

Worships on behalf of the people.

The people just are Spectators, but they they glean Benefits from the

worship that's taking place up front.

In fact, could you pick up on sacerdotalism when we return from our final break, which is a lot more brief.

It's gonna be a lot more brief.

The break is gonna be a lot more brief folks.

So if you have a question send it immediately to Chris Arnzen at gmail .com.

Chris Arnzen at me gmail .com.

Don't go away.

We'll be right back.

James White of Alpha Omega Ministries here excited to announce that my longtime friend Chris Arnzen of iron sharpens iron radio

and I Are heading to Washington DC for the g3 ministries regional conference on the theme

Just thinking about the Bible.

The conference will be held Thursday September 15th through Saturday September 17th.

And I'll be speaking along with Steven Lawson Josh vice founder of g3 ministries and Daryl Bernard

Harrison and Virgil Walker co -hosts of the just thinking podcast.

To register visit g3 min org.

That's g3 min org and click on events.

Your registration will include a ticket to the Museum of the Bible nearby the conference venue in Washington, DC.

So join me and Chris Arnzen September 15th through the 17th in Washington DC to the g3

ministries regional conference.

Register now before they run out of seats at g3 min org.

That's g3 min org.

Stop by the iron sharpens iron radio exhibitor booth and say hi to Chris Arnzen while you're there.

When iron sharpens iron radio first launched in 2005 the

publishers of the New American Standard Bible were among my very first sponsors.

It gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the iron sharpens iron radio audience have been

sticking with or Switching to the NASB.

I'm dr. Joseph Piper.

President and professor of systematic and homiletical theology at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary

in Taylors, South Carolina.

And the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm pastor Chuck White at the First Trinity Lutheran Church in Tonawanda, New York and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm pastor Anthony Mathenia of Christ Church in Radford, Virginia and the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm pastor Jesse Miller of Damascus Road Christian Church in Gardnerville, Nevada, and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

I'm pastor Bruce Bennett of Word of Truth Church in Farmingville, Long Island, New York.

And the NASB is my Bible of choice.

I'm pastor Rodney Brown of Metro Bible Church in South Lake, Texas and the NASB is

my Bible of choice.

I'm pastor Jim Harrison of Red Mills Baptist Church in Mayapac Falls, New York and the NASB

is my Bible of choice.

Here's a great way for your church to help keep iron sharpens iron radio on the air.

Pastors are your pew Bibles tattered and falling apart?

Consider restocking your pews with the NASB and tell the publishers you heard about them

from Chris Arnzen on iron sharpens iron radio.

Go to NASBible .com.

That's NASBible .com to place your order.

Hi, I'm Buzz Taylor.

Chris Arnzen of iron sharpens iron radio has had a longtime partnership with our friends at

CVBBS Which stands for Cumberland Valley Bible Book Service.

They specialize in supplying Reformed and Puritan books and Bibles at discount prices that make them affordable for

everyone.

CVBBS has been a family -owned book service since 1987 operating out of Carlisle, Pennsylvania.

They seek to bring you the best available Christian books and Bibles at the best possible prices.

Unlike other book sites they make no effort to provide every book that is available or popular because frankly

Much of what is being printed is not worth your time.

That means you can get to the good stuff faster.

It also means you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic Heretical and otherwise faith

insulting materials promoted by the secular book vendors.

Browse the pages at ease shop at your leisure and purchase with confidence at Cumberland Valley

Bible Book Service.

Order online at CVBBS .com that's CVBBS .com

or you can order by phone at 1 -800 -656 -0231.

That's 1 -800 -656 -0231.

Please let our friends at CVBBS know that you heard about them on iron sharpens iron radio as.

Host of iron sharpens iron radio.

I frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations.

A church I've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is Grace Covenant Baptist Church in

Flemington, New Jersey pastored by Alan Dunn.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church believes it's God's prerogative To determine how he shall be worshiped and how he

shall be represented in the world.

They believe churches need to turn to the Bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship

God in spirit and truth.

Grace Covenant Baptist Church endeavors to maintain a God -centered focus.

Reading preaching and hearing the Word of God singing psalms hymns and spiritual songs.

Baptism and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship performed with faith joy

and sobriety.

Discover more about Grace Covenant Baptist Church in Flemington, New Jersey at

GCBCNJ .squarespace .com.

That's GCBCNJ .squarespace .com.

Or call them at 908 -996 -7654.

That's 908 -996 -7654.

Tell Pastor Dunn that you heard about Grace Covenant Baptist Church on Iron Sharpens Iron radio.

Hi, this is John Sampson pastor of Kings Church in Peoria, Arizona.

Taking a moment of your day to talk about Chris Arnson and the Iron Sharpens Iron podcast.

I consider Chris a true friend and a man of high integrity.

He's a skilled interviewer who's not afraid to ask the big penetrating questions while always defending the key

doctrines of the Christian faith.

I've always been happy to point people to this podcast knowing it's one of the very few Safe places on the internet

where folk won't be led astray.

I believe this podcast needs to be heard far and wide.

This is a day of great spiritual compromise and yet God has raised Chris up for just such a time.

And knowing this it's up to us as members of the body of Christ to stand with such a ministry.

In prayer and in finances.

I'm pleased to do so and would like to ask you to prayerfully consider joining me in supporting Iron

Sharpens Iron.

Financially, would you consider sending either a one -time gift or even becoming a regular monthly

partner with this ministry?

I know it would be a huge encouragement to Chris if you would.

All the details can be found at Iron Sharpens Iron Radio .com where you can click support.

That's Iron Sharpens Iron radio .com.

Attention all men in ministry leadership.

You're all invited to my friend Chris Arnzen's Iron Sharpens Iron radio free pastors luncheon

Thursday, September 22nd 11 a .m. To 2 p .m. At Church of the Living Christ in Loisville,

Pennsylvania.

Featuring me James White of Alpha Omega Ministries your keynote speaker.

Not only will you enjoy a wonderful time of fellowship with your colleagues in ministry over a delicious meal.

But you'll also receive dozens of free brand -new books.

Donated by Christian publishers all over the United States and the United Kingdom.

Personally selected by Chris Arnzen host of Iron Sharpens Iron radio.

So if you're a pastor an elder a deacon a parachurch leader or any other man in ministry leadership

Please register for the Iron Sharpens Iron radio free pastors luncheon today by calling

631 291 7002 631

291 7002 or by visiting Iron Sharpens Iron radio .com.

Iron Sharpens Iron radio .com.

This is James White of Alpha Omega Ministries hoping to see you Thursday, September 22nd 11 a

.m To 2 p .m. At Church of the Living Christ in Loisville, Pennsylvania for Chris Arnzen's

Iron Sharpens Iron radio free pastors luncheon.

Welcome back.

And Scott annual you were talking about sacerdotalism before the

break and if you could continue that thread.

Yeah, absolutely in the Middle Ages where the

priest is worshiping on behalf of the people the people are just spectators sort of getting some of the grace.

Ironically has repeated itself in much of contemporary worship where the real worship is happening on

the stage with the musicians.

The people are kind of maybe singing along hope, you know, you know

hoping to get some of the benefits and experiencing the sort of sacramental

presence of God in the service and and so there's really a lot of the same errors have occurred and

Again, the solution is trust in the sufficient word and a recognition that yes

We are when we worship we are joining with the angels in heaven.

We are Ascending into the heavenly temple through Christ but that is

a spirit that is not a physical reality until Christ

comes again.

And so while we will have physical feelings and we do physical things That's all good where you know, the

body is not bad and emotions not bad.

None of these things Define the essence of what we're doing and certainly none of these things

are the essence of the presence of God.

We have another anonymous listener who says I've become more and more uncomfortable

with the inclusion of choirs and special praise bands

providing the music at worship services where I am and I was wondering if this

in your opinion is a violation of What the New Testament commands

in regard to worship.

I do love attending concerts and other things that are not a part of the corporate gathered

worship services but when they are existing in a worship service, I always feel

very uncomfortable as if a Scripture.

Teaching is being violated on worship.

It's really related to what I was just talking about.

I think that this this individual is correct.

The musical performance that's taking place on the stage is Really in

place of the active participation of the congregation.

It really becomes Performance it becomes entertainment or it becomes the

you know, the worship quote -unquote worship leaders Who are actually do for the people?

So I think that that that is.

It's definitely something to be aware of and to be concerned about.

Having said that you know, there is a way for you know gifted musicians To

use their gift the active participation of the congregation.

So I'm a musician myself.

I Appreciate those who are well trained in music.

But there's a fine line between using musical giftedness to support congregational

singing to support the active participation of the congregation on the one hand or

Flipping into a performance mentality and that's what we need to be careful of.

Even something like a choir can be used To help to support congregational singing to

even teach the congregation new hymns.

That can be done in such a way that will actually aid the active participation of the congregation.

But when the choir becomes simply a performance for its own sake then we're moving into that

Sacerdotalism that I spoke of a moment ago.

Well, I'd like you to have several minutes of uninterrupted time where you can summarize what you most want

etched in the hearts and minds Of our listeners today about this subject before we go off the air.

Yeah, absolutely.

I Appreciate talking having the opportunity to talk about this.

I'm very burdened about a need for a modern Reformation in worship, particularly among

Churches that consider themselves reformed.

I think we've we've seen a lot of progress in terms of reforming the

doctrines of grace and recovering those important doctrines in Emphasizing the centrality

of the glory of God and the sovereignty of God.

We've even seen a wonderful Reformation in ecclesiology returning to

Biblical practices when it comes to many aspects of how we govern churches.

But it seems to me like worship is kind of one of those last areas that has yet to be reformed

in many respects where we sort of have have fallen into the trap

of Thinking that how we worship is neutral as long as we are worshiping the right God

and we're doing so with a sincere heart.

Then it really doesn't matter how we worship when in matter of fact the scriptures teach teach

something entirely different.

Yes, absolutely.

Our hearts are central.

We we must have sincere hearts and we must have a focus on God and his glory.

But God also places a high premium on how he is to be worshipped and we see

examples in both the Old and New Testaments of God.

Rejecting worship even worship done with the right motivation if it is not

relying on What God has prescribed and so recovering this Emphasis

on the authority and sufficiency of the word not just in our theology and not just

in Terms of obedience in holy living but also in our worship is something that

I believe desperately needs to be recovered and And it's you know, it's an uphill

battle because of the many many years of influence upon the Evangelical

Church today.

By so many things that we've talked about including revivalism and Pentecostal ism.

But even just our modern post enlightenment secular society Has

has impacted and influenced the way that we think about so many things that we might not even recognize

and so a lot of my Burden and a lot of things that I write and books the

podcast and blog posts and all of that is to try to help What is

the Bible say how should we be thinking about the nature of our relationship with God through Christ and

the nature of our worship Daily and on the Lord's Day Corporately as churches.

Let's return to the Bible.

Let's return to the simplicity of the word and let's trust that the Holy Spirit is Going to

use the word that he has inspired to form and to shape us and to guide us in our worship.

That's really my burden and that's what I pray will happen in many of our churches as we seek to be more.

Reliant on scripture now, there are some I've heard folks Roman

Catholics some Anglicans Who will actually

use Scripture to Give a seal of

approval on things that they do in a worship service that we would find

abhorrent.

They will say well look that there was incense in the Old Testament so what are you so upset about

using incense in a New Testament Church, and I have pointed out the to

them Nadab and Abihu You I mean when these people Try

to import Old Testament ideas and and just because it was something that occurred in the

Bible. They think it is Approved by God.

Even in the Old Covenant, they had to do things exactly according to a specific design and

purpose they couldn't just take any incense and burn it in any way and and

other things that even involve music and and of course everybody Who likes

dancing in a worship service will always bring up the fact that David dance.

But what are your thoughts on that and you only have about a minute?

I'm sorry.

Important on this topic because the book of Hebrews

Emphasizes the discontinuities between old covenant worship a new covenant worship that I would

argue.

These Roman Catholic and Anglican apologists aren't aren't Grasping and they need to look at that.

We don't have time to get into that anymore, but I would urge people to look at book of Hebrews and on the issue of dance.

It's interesting.

Everybody points to David.

There's one example.

It's not a corporate worship service.

You don't find any examples of dancing in corporate worship in Scripture.

There was folk dance in Israel and folk dance is a good and wholesome thing.

But it wasn't part of the solemn assemblies of worship of God's people.

And you know, so again, it's not just finding a chapter and verse proof text.

It's actually looking at the context looking at the underlying theology and drawing correct biblical interpretations

and applications of biblical text.

Well, we're out of time and thank you so much for being such an outstanding guest Scott.

I look forward to having you return to the show frequently.

I want to thank everybody who listened today and I want to thank especially those who took

the time to write in questions.

Don't forget about Jeff Johnson the founder and president of grace Bible Theological Seminary where

Scott annual serves in the faculty.

Jeff Johnson is our guest tomorrow.

And I hope you all always remember for the rest of your lives that Jesus Christ is a far greater Savior

Than you are a sinner.