The Deen Show

Webcasting around the world from the desert metropolis of Phoenix, Arizona. This is the dividing line. The Apostle Peter commanded Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us.

Yet to give that answer with gentleness and reverence. Our host is dr. James White director of Alpha Omega ministries and an elder at the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. This is a live program and we invite your participation.

If you'd like to talk with dr. White call now at 602 -973 -4602 or toll-free across the United States. It's 1 -877 -753 -3341. And now with today's topic here is James White.

Critiquing the Deen Show and a Misleading Muslim Apologetic Clip

Well, one thing I discovered today is that being a grandfather does not make bad Islamic arguments sound any better than they did before I was sent a link to a new Dean show and I've come to the conclusion that you know when I first started listening to stuff on the Dean show I was like, you know that Eddie guy seems like a cool guy, you know I'd love to have a chance to talk to him and and you know You know really educated about the issues because he's just so ignorant of these things.

I don't think he's ignorant of these things I it's you know when you've had so many people on that are just so completely clueless as To what their alleged form of faith was after a while. It's just like man I think this is probably pretty purposeful on their part actually but I was I've got a got a thing queued up here of of a fellow who This is a description an aspiring Christian Baptist minister meets Muslim in a bar and learns Islam.

I Guess you've got to try and make it sound interesting. We don't generally try to do that with our descriptions of dividing line, but we'll find out a little bit more about the aspiring Christian Baptist minister here in a moment.

I'm a little bit more awake today. Because well Mom and baby stayed in in the birthing center last night. So so it was still nice and quiet at home actually. But yeah, finally, I don't think my I've been getting all these congratulations and stuff.

Why is a grandfather get congratulations? I didn't I didn't do anything now my wife worked hard my wife was was with her most of the time, but you know my wife always went to labor at least a month early and Just skipped all the last month of weight gain and misery and got him out about eight eight hours from beginning to end.

Boom. Forty-four hours between the onset of contractions and the delivery of little Clementine last evening at 730 44 hours. Oh good grief and At some point I guess she was talking about adoption in the future.

I Could understand I can understand that but anyways That's Quite an experience and Haven't had a chance to see her yet today, but I'm the one with the car seat. So I will be seeing her in a little while after the program to go pick him up and head him on home.

So that'll be exciting. Not related in any way shape or form, but the Christian Institute has an article today. That's just The Europeans. Which is sadly where the socialists in our country want to be you know there's socialists in our country.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, there's an entire. There's an entire political party that just changed its name to socialist party, but anyway Belgium considering extending euthanasia law to children. Belgium is considering allowing children and Alzheimer's sufferers to ask to be euthanized.

The proposed changes to the country's decade-old law were submitted to Parliament on Tuesday by the Socialist Party. The draft legislation calls for quote the law to be extended to minors if they are capable of discernment or Affected by an incurable illness or suffering that we cannot alleviate.

Belgium was the second country in the world after the Netherlands to legalize euthanasia, but applies to people over the age of 18. The European Institute of bioethics has already criticized the current law in Belgium in a report reviewing ten years of euthanasia in the country.

Dr. Peter Saunders director of campaign group care not killing Warned in response report the lessons are clear once you relax the law on euthanasia or assisted suicide steady extension will follow as night follows day now I just I I Just don't understand it.

I do not understand it. Why what do you mean? Extend euthanasia to someone under the age of 18 Calls the law to be extended to minors if they are capable of discernment who gets to judge that so you've got a 14 year Old that's capable discernment and says my life stinks kill me It and and you can do that legally is that what they're promoting.

Well, I guess it's the logical extension of the culture of death. There is no transcendent meaning to life and If you feel you're just you know, hey, I I don't want my carbon footprint to continue and There you go.

It's all over with I I Don't even know what to say outside of this is what happens when the culture of death becomes the predominant element in a culture and Takes over the educational system and then the next generation and the next generation in the next generation have been soaked in this kind of Thought this kind of thinking That they can actually propose this kind of thing and look at you like what?

We're the cultural lead you you should you should follow us. We will we will give you guidance and They don't even realize that They've so devalued humanity. It's it's it's disgusting.

We need to get the sound clip from that early Star Trek episode where no I guess it was start the second generation the next generation where the guys hijacked Geordi. We're smart. Oh Yes, you need to get that Clip and have a play it for stuff like they're called.

I'm gonna prove myself a.

Trekkie here. They're called packets. Yes.

And when we need to be able to play those guys every time stuff like this comes up, we're smart. You need to listen to us. Smart. Really how they said it. I know I know but you get the idea.

Yeah, we could come up with something we make things go yeah, we yeah, yeah, we make things go that's what it is. Those are the pack lids and that was a very politically incorrect episode actually. And it demonstrated you don't have to be really smart to be rather devious and and underhanded and mean at the same time I'm sure That we probably have some people in channel.

Yeah, we look for things see Scott Scott I was about to say we probably have people in channel who would have the The the sound clips that we could we could use for that. We look for things things that make things go we make things go yeah, it's something along those lines, yes, and Thankfully Geordi was a smart guy and and they out out I'll smart at him at the end.

But anyways Yeah, there you got Belgium. It does seem that northern Europeans need a little more Sun because There's things just yeah things to make us go. You do wonder how they got into space but that's another issue we won't let us not begin a discussion of the possible social implications of of certain Star Trek next-generation episodes that would be extremely Inappropriate to pursue that whatsoever eight seven seven seven five three three three four one as I as I mentioned and I forgot to queue this up because someone Repost in channel because I put this name out and I put the guy's name in channel before I left the house.

But I forgot to grab it while I was in here. If someone could be so kind as to repost the name of the fellow on the Dean show That would be very kind. It's it's a Khalil Something and I Saw it. It looked interesting That you had an aspiring Baptist.

No. No, what's a what is an aspiring? Baptist minister. I Would assume that that is a person who? has undergone Significant training Khalil meek. Thank you very much. Whatever Terton got half of it, but whatever.

Go Khalil meek is his name. He's one of the board members of the Muslim Defense fund Muslim legal defense fund. Yeah, that's what it is and So I would think that the description of Aspiring Baptist minister would be someone who is at least in seminary You know was was on the road to being trained, you know had extensive experience in the church things like that.

You start listening to this guy well here let me let me let me just play you just a brief clip here's here's the depth of This man's analysis of what the Bible teaches about Jesus in regards to.

The deity of Christ check check this out. Well as I was doing my research and it basically it boiled back down to the same question that I posed beginning of my Muslim friend instead of him being a confused Christian, maybe I was a confused Muslim and it my.

My search at that point came down to is Jesus God or not. That was it in your mind is he God or if he's God then I'm a Christian if he's not I'm a Muslim simple that was it and so as I Wanted to focus on that issue.

What I started to see is Jesus speaking to me from the Bible in his own words. Not what I heard from the the minister not what I heard in Sunday school. Not the theology. I wanted Jesus to tell me who he is Where he came what he did so I could see if Jesus is telling me he's God or if he says something different.

And when I start looking at Jesus and what he said in the Bible, he said the father's greater than I. I have my known Self do nothing. Why call us me good. There's none good. But the father our father who art in heaven even on the cross.

He says my god my god. Why has now forsaken me so I start to hear Jesus telling me he's not God. So there you go.

That's Jesus telling us he's not God. Now, of course you heard one miss citation Jesus not say no one is good. But the father he said no one's good, but God. But I mean these are the the simplest most basic.

The kids in my in the sixth grade class at church could respond to these things type questions and this is an Aspiring Baptist minister saying these things. He didn't have a response to these things. But by the time we got to this I already knew the answer to all this and remember this is the Dean show.

This is the show that features all sorts of alleged ex-christians and tries to make him sound like they were just you know Top flight folks. Most of them were either liberal nutcases or youth ministers at the best.

Yeah, so what's this guy's actual story? Well, he was he was raised as a Baptist. But then when he left home to go to college he went nuts and he just started living like the world and His senior year in college.

He decided to get serious and he decided that the best way to get serious was become a Baptist minister and so he started talking to people about religion and Became a Muslim. Never went to seminary had zero training and when he starts talking about Well, you know I decide I need to start looking into.

I need to convince people the Bible was the Word of God. You know, I found out we don't even know who wrote most of it. Wow. Really? You thought we had names and telephone numbers, huh? I Mean the man was just as ignorant as the day is long.

This was no aspiring Baptist minister. This was a wild college kid Who had given thought to going to seminary. That was it. That's it. But that's all there is to it. Nothing more and Yet people are sitting going.

Wow, man. See we've got all the answers listen. Wow, and you just you're just you're going really. You you really this is this is what Islam has to offer. You guys have got to think about this guy. I realize I get the feeling that Eddie and the folks at Dean show They don't care.

When someone like me exposes this kind of silliness they don't care they only have one audience. They're not interested in converting real Christians. They are interested in Exciting their Their folks their target audience, which is primarily Muslims and They are interested in Maybe the ultra confused nominal Christian Who is you know doesn't know anything may be interest there.

But there is no interest whatsoever in actually interacting honestly with integrity with depth With the best of Christianity has to offer no, no interest at all and Unfortunately, I see a lot of that and it really makes me wonder When when the majority of folks well, you know, you go.

Yeah. Well, look at all the look at all the charlatans and Christianity well, okay, but what I don't see are Individuals who are looking at These types of folks in Islam is saying oh they are charlatans see we look at our charlatans I hate to use term our but the people who claim to Christians we go that guy Isn't what he claims to be but that doesn't work in Islam because these guys have said the Shahada and So, how do you say?

Hey you you folks are are completely off base. You're you're not even truly Muslim it doesn't seem that that they do that. So the arguments that were put forth in this in this section in this program were absolutely horrific just Unbelievably bad very very service level and I'm looking for maybe someone will Track down for me the information, but I would like to get hold of this fellow because he says he loves to do debates and he says that it's clear as can be that Muhammad is prophesied in the Bible and I would just Really really like to have the opportunity of engaging that subject.

Of course, I'd love to do on the Dean show, but that ain't happening because Dean shows not really interested in that kind of dialogue they're only interested in one side and not in allowing both sides in any way, so I May go ahead and I may go ahead and embed the the the episode from YouTube.

Because one thing's for certain If this guy is telling the truth that he was raised in a Baptist Church in the South At least that's what sounded like he indicated Here is living proof of why we have to do a much better job in Educating our folks.

I Mean I have there's some guy sitting right now. I think in North Carolina Listening to me and he's recording all this just waiting for me to say something about the Southern Baptist Convention literally, there is a guy who records all the programs and then he puts together clips of anything I say about the Southern Baptist Convention, and he'll probably put this together, too and Then he uses it to For his own nefarious purposes.

Let's say that and I just simply say that person I pity you. I really do pity you. You you you really need to get a life but anyways There are people like that and When I point out the fact that for example I've told the story many times when I was a senior in high school in a Southern Baptist Church I was I and a couple other people were like could we please?

Do something serious in Bible study could we could we really look at the background of a book or just do something where we actually Learn something could we please? This this stuff from from the the convention for for young people is just Problem it's it's There's nothing to it.

We knew this stuff when we were six years old. Can't we move on from here and basically, we were told no because that might make other people feel uncomfortable and So there you go. That kind of Mindset is what produces people like this it produces wonderful converts to other religions.

You can all look back and say well when I was a Baptist We didn't know that some of the books of the Bible that we didn't know who wrote them we didn't know that and Then somebody came along showed me that now I'm an atheist.

And I've talked to these folks. You can't you can't refute that you cannot argue with the fact that yep. That's what happens. That's what happens, and it's a shame I. We have to be preparing our People we have to be preparing our people to deal with an ever more aggressively anti-christian culture and that means unlike preceding generations.

We need to know more about where the Bible came from the nature of the Bible the issue of you know. Especially Muslims, you know why you need to know who wrote everything in there. Muhammad didn't know Muhammad didn't know who wrote the Torah the Injil he evidently thought that only Jesus wrote the the Injil and only Moses wrote the Torah.

That seemingly is how he understood things. But there you go. There's there's a bit of a problem that but anyways this this episode excellent example of Why it is that we have to just have to Prepare our people and make sure that we don't skip the difficult things.

Don't don't skip don't skip the fact that there's differences between the Greek Septuagint and and the Hebrew text. Discuss them get into it got to do it just cannot skip this type of stuff. So I may I may go ahead and link to that so you can watch it for yourself because honestly There is nothing in this entire presentation that even begins to challenge even the most Semi-literate Christian really isn't.

Because that's why I don't have any problem linking to it or even posting it is because it's like you see this. This is supposed to be an apologetic. This is supposed to be an argument against our faith.

And when you see how bad the arguments are it does make you wonder just a little bit about people who would go wow. That's great. That's who it's that's exciting stuff. 8 7 7 7 5 3 3 3 4 1 is the phone number and I will get back to the Sammy.

The toddy stuff and the Paul Williams stuff, and there's just so much. I wish I had more time, but I May have less time in the future at least for a while who knows you know grandparents make for wonderful babysitters.

They really really do. And I'm not sure at least for a while Clementine probably wouldn't notice if I had earphones in my ears so even though after a while she'll be reaching up and and Grabbing everything and pulling and my goatee.

I'm gonna have to maybe trim it back just a little bit. Because I remember I remember Josh. I remember Josh. I remember I remember Clementine's mommy. Liked liked beards and man once they got to about six months.

They grab a hold at and they can pull hard that was that was fun. They liked like dad's beard back then, but now it's a gray no white white goatee. I said this isn't gray anymore. Is it that's that's white man.

That's that's just. Yeah, I know. I wish I didn't. I've loved I wish it was all just white. I wish I wish this thing would would just go white. It's it's getting whiter, but I wish it just all go white because I don't like the two-tone thing.

I like I like the white that's I've earned it so anyways. Let's get to the phone calls. Eight seven seven seven five three three three four one eight seven seven seven five three three three four one is the phone number and Let's go back to Florida and talk to Chris.

Colossians 1 and the Deity of Christ

Hi Chris. I'm sorry can barely hear you go ahead. Sorta, but it sounds like you're on a phone from 1984. Okay. Yes Yeah.

Yes I've been doing catechism with her every night and going through the West Minnesota Confession mistakes and kind of like. Making the statements a little simpler for our understanding. She's been doing terrific.

I just been blessed. So I thought you would like to hear that well. I know there's a.

Catechism for kids. I know that I think Spurgeon had one as well. It's that's used at our church. So there there are some simplified versions, but yes, that's the way to do it. Yeah.

The question. Because it was in the question-and-answer session and I think on this question you would like he mentioned something in collages. What XT stand giving a passive form to me that Jesus was used instrumentally?

I guess as well as implication was. I was wondering if you can touch on that for me.

I think you mean verse 16 XT stay By him were all things made. That's I Assume that an Aryan would be saying well, he's the he's merely an instrument of creation. The problem of course is that Paul's argument?

And we may need to Pot you down there a second because it's sounded really bad. Paul's argument is That this one is the icon to say you the image of the invisible God. The prototype house passes. This is the firstborn of all creation.

He's trying to make it first created. That's not what prototype house means. It means the one ruling over the one having preeminence over and he's the icon to say you He's the one who reveals God. So the idea that what you have in verse 16 is a Creature who is merely the instrument by which top on top comes into existence again, just demonstrates the overriding Tradition that is being read into the text.

Anyone who read this because by him were all things created well, if I say by God all things were created am I somehow saying that God is not the creator. Of course not and then when I make it extensive to all things and then I say top on to D out to tie ice out on ecstasy all things were made through him and For him and he is before all things and all things hold together or consist or cohere in him.

What what other language would I have to use to express the fact that this is the creator himself. Now Paul distinguishes between the roles the father and the son in creation as he Distinguishes between the roles of the father and the son in the revelation of God.

I mean, it's it's the father who is revealed by the son not the son who's revealed by the father. So We we recognize that the persons in the Trinity Take different roles and therefore that's the only reason we can distinguish between them is because not only the economic Trinity But then the roles they have a bear toward one another as well the son being the revealer of the father.

Not the other way around and so to say well, it's it's passive and therefore that somehow means Jesus is lesser assumes that there can be a Recreated creator a This this this he no theistic system that Stafford has developed where you've got this true God who isn't really a true God, but is sort of a true God and and is in between some place.

Which is probably why he's not one of Jehovah's Witnesses anymore and has gone off and started his own cult. So But the there is just nothing that I can see that would be relevant to the idea that well since this is In this particular form that somehow in some way indicates that He is somehow lesser, I mean does does the fact that Synestekon in Verse 17 is not in the passive all things.

It's it's the it's a perfect Hold together in him. Does that somehow mean something? No, it's just simply the the mechanism by which he expressed himself.

I see. So basically you would just appeal to the the entire trying to make and basically the. Well see any act of exegesis.

Cultic exegesis Normally goes backwards and that's the problem with mr. Stafford. While he has done a lot of self-study It's only in one area and as a result you do not have balanced translation and and meaningful Greek scholarship coming from him no matter how long he's going to take to do it.

He's he's already demonstrated that in in his work and What you have in cultic Interpretation of scripture is you go or just amateurish interpretation as well. Unfortunately, you see us a lot of sermons is.

You will look at Words isolated from their context. This is how well for example people will look up a word in Strong's exhaustive concordance and they'll go chasing it through the scriptures based upon the King James translation of it and Come up with some of the wildest wackiest conclusions because they don't understand lexical semantics and the fact that words are defined within a semantic domain and Hence context is the king in determining where in a word semantic domain.

It's its definition is to be found in its particular usage in a particular context. The same thing is true here you have an argument that goes for multiple lines you have an argument really that that goes for multiple paragraphs and If you do not see the overarching argument if you do not follow the concern of the author.

Which is well completely different subject the what happens when when Norman Geisler? Goes to John 640 to try to get rid of the teaching of John 637. That's not how you interpret an argument. You don't jump into an argument Three paragraphs in to redefine the first paragraph and the same way you look at what is being taught by the Apostle and You look for the consistent theme throughout all of it and then you interpret Passives and you interpret participles and you interpret sub clauses and you interpret direct objects and everything else in light of how they're used within the context of the text itself and especially as I look at Colossians chapter 1 beginning in verse 15 you've probably got all the way down to the end of verse 20 a hymnic a poetic form and.

So if you can if you want to interpret Actus they in Colossians 116 Separate from The perfect middle indicative use at the end of the same verse or apart from soon as they can or apart from the the assertion Haas Esten RK who is the the head the firstborn from the dead if you want to Ignore all that stuff, then you can come up with anything you want and that's what cultic interpretation does but if you're actually seeking to interpret the text for what it says well, that's not how you do it and I Don't want to offend anybody.

But unfortunately a lot of the really bad stuff you see on the channel between 20 and 22 here in Phoenix the misnamed broadcasting network. That's what you're getting is the very same kind of well, you know what this word means.

It's whenever you hear someone say, you know what this word means. Your your response should be well, it depends on what context is being used. Because while there are some words that have very very narrow semantic domains.

And hence you can actually say this word means this Because it has a very narrow semantic domain and it's gonna meet have this carry the same meaning in almost any context. The reality is the vast majority of terms have a wide enough semantic domain that when someone says, you know What this word means they are the only response is depends on the context in which is being used.

But unfortunately you get a lot of that not only outside the cults, but you get it within you know Bad evangelicalism to. Yeah. No, I think I think that the point was The points an invalid point and and that is when you you recognize a particular syntactical category for example the use of the Anarthurus Our an Arthur Susan John one one see Coming before the verb pre-verbal form and saying well if it bears the meaning that you're giving then there must be other examples of it within the hundred and thirty eight thousand some odd words of the New Testament grand total and That is not a valid argument.

It only carries weight if you're if if what I'm saying is extremely unusual and goes against Numerous other examples in the New Testament and the fact that the fact matter isn't it doesn't go against numerous other examples where you have an Anarthurus use of Theos before the verb in this type of a context.

There's just there just aren't that many places at all that contain this kind of phraseology. Which is why you have to look outside the New Testament for other other kinds of uses. The reason that wouldn't be necessarily the case in regards to the Granville Sharp constructions and ties to the teen second Peter on one is That you have you're not you're not talking about the same kind of construction you're not talking about The the predicate nominative you're not talking about pre-verbal and of course Mr. Stafford has wasted a lot of bandwidth and much ink.

Attempting to get around the Granville Sharp constructions as well trying to find somewhere Some place where someone used to Granville Sharp construction that would that would violate The the uses in in the New Testament just to find some way to get around.

The fact that for example in second Peter you have at least four Granville Sharp constructions. And they all agree on at least three of them there. They're all Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, but God and Savior like it just can't be that it's just I realize he doesn't see this but to someone who has some You know you Perspective and I believe I I do have perspective because I deal with all sorts of different You know viewpoints I deal with Muslims and atheists and all sorts of things.

He's just he's just got one focus and He doesn't see just how completely out of balance he is but most cult leaders don't and that's what Greg Stafford has become he's become his own cult leader he has his own little followers and Probably After he dies someday in the future, and he's younger than I am so it's gonna be I won't get to see this probably but When he dies there probably will do this Disappear because you have to have a second generation charismatic leader to a group to keep it going and it'll probably just shatter off Into all sorts of little small groups and things like that is probably how that will work, but anyways Thanks for your call today it I'm a little confused because That's That's actually on the air right now according to mine, but I'm not sure what I'm doing now, so I'm Don't even know where to go at the moment.

I don't know what line two is there's nothing there's no description of line two. I don't know what the question is. Don't know who it is. But I'll just click on anyways, and I guess your name is Emmett hello Emmett.

Misleading Claims About Islam and the Trinity

Hey, Dr.. White, how are you pretty good? I have no earthy idea what your question is because.

Sorry, I dropped the call, and I think Chris was trying to get me reconnected there, okay? About the Dean show. Relatively new believer, and he claimed for a while to be a convert from Islam. Oh, and so after him it came to light that his stepfather was Muslim.

And and he actually was not. He never said that he'd eat or anything like that. I mean You're right, and he never said the Shahada, and so he never really read the Quran either so. What I? Kind of had advice and well I told him the story of you know the great evangelical cover-up and kind of how people have been misrepresented.

And by the way by the way by the way Emma. Do you know what Hadith 2425 is uh? You know I would like to get a t-shirt. Tell me. Just just wondering. I'm still we're still sort of asking that question.

You know that's right.

But it's funny how you know you didn't you would expect the same courtesy from the other end, but but um yeah, he well received that this young guy and. Yeah, and so I just thought I'd bring that to light that you know this in from our end.

This kind of stuff doesn't really go go over very well. We don't we don't look at that well.

Let's you know I I very much appreciate your approaching about it. That is the proper thing to do. We need to have that kind of attitude. The sad thing is. If he was looking to make money he probably could have could have done that and there'd be lots of willing people unfortunately that are willing to Enrich folks for for engaging that kind of thing and but we should be the first ones as Christians.

To be pointing that out and saying hey look. Unless a person you know had some kind of standing. I mean Aspiring Baptist minister. Oh, I I once thought about becoming a caliph. I guess that makes me an aspiring caliph, right?

I mean come on. This is it's just it's just amazing that people can sit there with a straight face and my question is This was recorded in front of an audience. Why aren't there people in the audience putting their hand up and going wait a minute wait a minute, but why are you calling?

This guy an aspiring Baptist minister when he's told us that he was in a bar in his senior year in college. Having gone nuts in college and acted in a bad way. And he just had the idea of maybe be getting religious again and going into the ministry.

How do you call? What do you would we put up with this and the answer would be no? But I just I just there is so few people that have that attitude and it it says a lot to me. It unfortunately has to say a lot to me.

That that's the kind of thing that's that we're seeing so often. But I'm glad that you mentioned what you did to the fellow up there and I'll be heading you guys's direction. I know weeks. I know we're really excited.

I'm looking forward to it. And as long as the traffic isn't really bad between Valleja and Sacramento. Well, you will be getting. I'm certainly hoping that I'm gonna get some real good chips and salsa when I get there.

There's a certain former Navy SEAL or wannabe Navy SEAL that has promised me that so that's Yeah heading to the Sacramento area. I'm gonna be teaching well, yeah, you all see that up on the website. I'll be teaching for cornerstone seminary.

I leave New Year's Day evening and fly up there. Could I arrange one can I make a request. For all the fellow believers up in the northern, California. Could we avoid the earthquake thing while I'm there?

Okay, I. You know. You guys like to do that. It's it's your thing. But while I'm there if you could just you know, avoid any unnecessary bouncing or or vibration production. Whatever it is you guys do it starts this stuff, you know, because I really would not like to be there During that time because I probably wouldn't get home for a while and I that really wouldn't be fun.

So if we could if we could avoid that and I don't think is now. Is Santa Rosa is Santa Rosa of that direction to Larry? Yes, it is. Okay good. Okay, could you could you help me out with that? Make sure there's no.

Rolling there. They're fun. You.

True. California, they're fine. Come on. You know, just make sure there's nothing on the wall above you and you'll be fine. Yeah, sure.

Yes, sir, what can we do for you? Okay, I have a question about forgiveness. It's a twofold question. I don't want to throw. Let me just throw out there. Are we required to forgive anyone regardless if someone asks us for forgiveness or not?

That's the first part. I. Somebody does something you forgive them what whether they come to you and ask for forgiveness or not. That's that's how I look at it. And I I think Matthew, you know chapter 6, you know 45 forgive men when they sent against you your Heavenly Father will also forgive you.

But if you do not forgive men their sins your father will not forgive your sins. So, I mean that that pretty much answers that the second part. This is the real reason why I'm calling is to the Armenian God won't forgive you unless you ask.

And to me there's. Yeah, well I.

I don't know that I would would agree with the premise personally, um, there is a difference between being an unforgiving person and Recognizing the difference between A person who has not asked for forgiveness from you and a person who has when someone comes to you and says Please forgive me for X Y Z.