Jeremiah Nortier responds to William Albrecht's Criticism on Mary's Magnificat Argument

How's it going, everyone? Hopefully you're doing well this evening. My name is Arturo. If you guys don't know, I'm the host and founder of Saints Edified. It's an online ministry where I try to provide biblical resources for Bible studies, evangelism, you know, church startups and things like that, more in the context of urban areas.

We also have an online radio station, a Christian hip-hop radio station, if you guys are into that. It's RedeemProjectRadio .com, and it's 24 -7 Christian hip-hop. And we also play sermons and scripture readings and things like that.

So please check that out if you can. Now, today I have a returning guest. It's a pleasure to do ministry with this guy online on my channel. I truly believe that this is a God-glorifying work and people are being edified by it.

In fact, I know because the last time I had him on, it caused a lot of discussion on YouTube, on Facebook, and things like that. So I have my buddy here, Jeremiah Nortier, or Nortier. What's wrong with you people?

Man, I accept both. Yeah. Oh, you caught me drinking from my mug. What's wrong with you people? One of my favorite mugs from R .C. Sproul, quote. But yeah, Nortier in the south, but it's really pronounced Nortier because it's French.

So I actually learned that later on in.

My life. I was like, whoa. Nice, nice, man. So yeah, man, I mean, I want to give people a little bit of context why we're doing this. And it's not that I like to pick on Catholics or anything like that.

I know as of recently, it's probably seemed that way, but on my channel, I've talked about the Apocrypha, Sola Scriptura, and it seems like I'm always talking about Catholics, but I'm not. Really what's going on is that I recently finished a series on the scripture for my podcast.

And of course, I'm using the reform document, Westminster Confession of Faith, and they dealt a lot with Rome when they wrote that. So there's a lot of reference there. And then I was so impressed by your debate that you had recently on Marlon's channel.

And really not so much of the, yeah, obviously the content was great, but your character is what really stood out to me. You were polite, a gentleman, you were kind, very, very gracious. And that's the kind of apologist that I want to get behind.

So thank you once again, Matt, for just coming on my show. And also too, Lord willing, man, this causes more discussion. So we talked about whether or not Mary was sinless, right? And as Protestants, we say yes, and Catholics say no.

And there's a lot of history behind that. So in our discussion, it would kind of be like a little overview of your debate, right? And then someone got a hold of it and was pretty upset. So this is why we're doing a response video to that video.

And we're not going to respond to every single point, but we're going to go ahead and at least respond to the who you are in case they've never heard of you before. So do you mind just letting us know what.

You do and if you're involved in ministry and things like that? Absolutely. My name is Jeremiah Nortier and I have a heart for serving Jesus Christ, just trusting Him in all things. He is my Lord that I adore and the God that I worship.

And I believe that He has given us His word and He has given us truth. And so I love the word. I love to study the word and God has blessed me with ministry here at 12 Five Church in Jonesboro, Arkansas.

And so I have an interest in apologetics, but the way that I look at apologetics, giving a defense for the hope, the gospel, the hope that lies within us. We've been commanded to do that with gentleness and respect and to always sanctify Jesus as Lord in our hearts as we do that.

So my view on apologetics is evangelism primarily. I want to articulate the Christian worldview in such a way that people understand, man, we are made in the image of God and that's truly how we have knowledge that properly represents the truth.

And so I think the Christian worldview is the only worldview that makes sense of our experience in the world. And everything that history is pointing to and driving us to is the good message of Jesus Christ.

God not only necessarily exists, but He has revealed Himself in human history and told us sufficiently about who He is. And namely, God the Son, Jesus Christ stepped into our timeline, if you will, and He died on the cross, paying the full punishment of sin.

And I want to explain to people, you need to trust in His finished work on the cross, trust in Him resurrecting from the dead. And that way you can have eternal life. You can have your sin forgiven and truly have hope that is coupled with truth.

And so my heart is just any avenues that God opens for me to contend for the faith and to share the gospel. I'm just, I'm all in. So I've been so blessed, Arturo, to serve here at this church and to just surround myself with the saints and to be able to contend for the truth and to feel the great connection.

Awesome, bro. That's great. Sounds good, man. And well, yeah, let's just go ahead and get started with this. And, you know, I do got to make one correction here. Actually, the gentleman that we're going to respond to, he actually got caught wind of the actual debate that you were in.

Not so much our video, but he came across someone that he listened to or a follower of his, you know, send him a link. So, you know, I'm not going to pretend like I could pronounce his last name, so I'll let you do it.

But yeah, so if you want to give us some context on who this man is, here's a little, let me see if I can do this really quick, if I can. Okay, so there he is.

Who's this guy?

So this is William Albrecht, and he is a Roman Catholic apologist, which I've listened to a little bit of his debates. He debated Tony Acosta, and I listened to their debate in preparation for my debate with the Roman Catholic Matthew, I forget his last name also, but I'm a little bit familiar with William here, and he's a very sharp man.

And he got some feedback on the debate that I had with the Roman Catholic Matthew. And so he decided to make an hour video responding to one point that I made in my opening statement. And so as we begin to unpack that, I said so much more in the debate than this minor, minor point that I made.

I had no idea it was going to ruffle a lot of Roman Catholic feathers, which is okay. That's the whole ironing sharp and iron. This allows us to have open dialogue and to really get down to the nuts and bolts of really the huge, vast differences that Roman Catholics and Protestants have, but we don't have to do it in a way where we have to hurl insults at one another.

We can lovingly talk about the truth.

Amen. Yeah, man, that's good. Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I haven't really heard of this guy up until he sent me his video. And let me just get out of the way now, because I know some Protestants might want to check out his video and see what he's about.

It was very tough to listen to, because although he wasn't directly insulting you, he might as well have. And I know how you are. We talked about it. And for some reason, it wasn't bothering you at all.

But for me, it was a little bit frustrating because it's an hour-long video. I'm a busy person. I'm already reading a bunch of books, listening to things. So I wanted to get to the content, and it was really hard for me to even...

I just wanted to tell William, like, bro, okay, we get it. You're funny, and you have clever jokes, and you're witty. But can you just please get to the point? Get to the point and let me know where you disagree with my brother here.

And so just a heads up, when you guys check out... Hopefully, you guys do check out his video and check out his channel. He has a lot of stuff. A lot of it also, too, is just because he's a Catholic and we're Protestants, there's some overlap there that we can actually say, like, amen to.

So he seems like a great debater, great teacher. We just disagree with him on critical issues and also issues of, obviously, the Marian dogmas. So with that being said, bro, is there anything else you want to give?

A heads up, or before we start going to his video and responding to it, is there anything you want to say before we start?

Yeah. So our goal is to lovingly talk through these issues. When I first listened to William's video, we're going to see some of the zingers that he throws my way, and I can look past that, and I can chuckle, I appreciate good humor.

It's funny, Arthur, my wife was like, oh my goodness. I was like, Ali, it's okay, girl. This is how all this thing goes down. So I hope William watches this in respect to where we're coming from, because I would like to continue the dialogue.

Hopefully, one day, me and him can have a moderated debate on maybe Sola Scriptura, or something else. I love intellectual conversation back and forth, and let's just talk about the scripture without having to attack each other's person.

Let's just lovingly talk about the issues at hand, and ultimately, we trust God at the end of the day. So let's just.

See what happens, right? Yeah. Awesome, bro. Yeah, and hopefully he does hear that, and he wants to have that discussion with you, or a public debate on Marlon's channel. It just shows that you're definitely willing to discuss this further with him.

You're not shying away. You're not there scratching your head like, oh no, what did I get myself into? You're actually saying, no, I'm setting my ground here. Let's go for it. So I respect that first thing, bro.

If I had the gift of not stuttering, I would definitely debate more, but I tend to get too wound up, and you know.

Hey, man, got to use modus mili, right? Right. Yeah, so.

Sure. Cool, man. So all right. Well, let's begin this, bro. And again, we're not going to, for people listening, watching this now, we're not going to watch the whole entire hour video and respond to every single point.

You know what I mean? We're going to be here all night, then, you know? But we are going to hit chunks and main points that William does say, and hopefully it's edifying. But also, too, if you guys don't believe us, I mean, I'll link the video below, so you can watch it yourself.

We're not taking them out of context, though. All right. So let's go ahead and start this, man. Let me see. Whoops. I removed you. There you go. So this is early on. He explains why he's making a video.

So I'll play this now.

Feel free to inquire. Now, why am I going live on a Saturday night when I didn't have it in the schedule? Well, whenever our Immaculate Mother is attacked, it really gets my blood boiling. Whenever the Trinity is attacked, it gets my blood boiling.

All right, Jeremiah. So that was about 15 seconds there, maybe 20 seconds. Sure. Do you have anything to say about that?

Yeah, I do. Because this, I think, gives Protestants a little insight to how Roman Catholics view Mary. They talk about the veneration of Mary. And they have a lot of doctrine that goes into that. And I think this is just good for Protestants to realize, look, they make strong distinctions.

They claim not to worship Mary. I think in some respectful fashion, we need to honor that in our dialogue and not come, man, y 'all pray to Mary so much. Y 'all have all these icons, images of her. It seems like y 'all worshiping her.

Well, they make certain distinctions there that we need to be aware of. So something that we noticed that William said is that when somebody attacks the mother of our Lord, it really gets his blood boiling.

Now, that tells me a couple things that Shalise raised from red flags. So this isn't a slam dunk argument I'm making here, but I just want to point this out to Protestants. And I also want to point this out to Roman Catholics, letting them see how we hear William when he says that if someone attacks the mother of the Lord, know this, we're not attacking Mary per se.

We really want to honor Mary as we understand the scriptures telling us who she is. But when a Roman Catholic says, man, it gets my blood boiling when we claim that Mary was, when a Roman Catholic says that Mary was sinless, we're saying we see her as a sinner saved by grace through faith like all the other saints of all time.

So when William says, man, it gets my blood boiling like the Trinity or even the deity of Christ, that causes me some concern because if someone starts saying that Jesus isn't God, absolutely, I'm going to come to the defense and be like, hey, this is what the Bible teaches.

Jesus is God. That's the God that I worship and adore. I'm going to come to that very quickly. And so we see that that's how Roman Catholics also in some ways treat Mary. And so I just want both sides, Roman Catholics and Protestants to understand that that seems kind of scary to Protestants when we see Roman Catholics lumping Mary into the same conversation as Jesus Christ as God and the God that we worship as being triune.

Now I get they had those category distinctions, but both sides need to understand that we are approaching this issue from completely different platforms, I would say, to completely different worldviews.

So I just wanted to throw.

That out there, Arturo. Awesome, man. Okay. So, all right. So, yeah, so he said something else that I kind of want to hear you. And this is something that really is an attack to all, especially Reformed, Calvinistic, Protestant, Apologist.

Whenever we engage Rome, things like this are kind of said. So I want to hear you out on this.

There's nothing else for them. They are ripping from the, they don't know it. Now, Jeremiah seems to be enamored with James White. So he rips the arguments from White. Oh, look at all those eight that denied the Immaculate Conception as if we haven't shredded that and exposed some of those for being spurious, right?

He doesn't do his homework, doesn't know Mariology, doesn't know the dogma of the Immaculate Conception, doesn't know the Fathers well at all. He called Clement, Clement, I think now Origin, Origin of Clement of Alexander.

The guy doesn't know the Fathers. The guy doesn't know the Bible. I'm not here to trash him. I'm here to deal with the arguments.

Yeah, okay. So I'll stop it right there. So right there, he pretty much says that all these arguments that we try to use, that we learn from James White and all that have already been shredded apart and answered, things like that.

Now, I want to say a lot of things, but we don't have time for me and my thoughts. So I want to hear from you. So yeah, I mean, that was a lot. He kind of took a jab at something you said too about one of the Church Fathers.

So I kind of.

Want to hear you kind of expand on that too. So go ahead. Oh, yeah. Yeah. So I agree with William. I am so appreciative of James White's ministry and his dividing line. He says I'm enamored with him, like I'm so infatuated.

And obviously, he doesn't know me. So William's doing a little bit of a rally cry for his troops. And I'm okay with that. James White gets the troops going on our side too. So I just want people to know that it's all good.

And I really do thank God for James White's ministry. So we can continue to have this dialogue over multiple issues. And I want to encourage people to have the dialogue in a respectful way, not one where we're just hurling insults back and forth.

So I just want to agree. Yeah, I'm very thankful to James White's ministry. In preparation for my debate against Matthew, I read two books that were so helpful that I want to encourage people to go read, whether you're Protestant or Roman Catholic.

James White wrote, Mary, Another Redeemer. Go read it. You may read it and disagree with it. And that's okay. I found it very enlightening to help us see a lot of the issues that have went on throughout church history.

And he wrote another book called Scripture Alone, which I really think William would agree with me. This is the underlining distinction between Roman Catholics and Protestant. Is scripture, sola scriptura, scripture alone?

Is that the sole infallible rule of faith in the practice and life of Christian? As Reformed Protestants, we say yes and amen to that. And we make a biblical case for that. Now, William's being a true Roman Catholic is going to say, no, the Bible doesn't teach that.

That's self-refuting and unbiblical. And we should trust the magisterium. And I'm like, hey, that's okay. Let's continue the dialogue about those things. But, you know, I'm a little bit familiar with William Albrecht.

I've listened to some of his content, very sharp. And so when he debated Tony Costa on these eight popes that disagreed and defined things differently than Pope Pius IX that came later in church history, that's great.

Encourage people to go look at the recorded documentation. Go to Alpha and Omega Ministries where I believe they have very clear citations of these eight popes and how they defined Mary being in original sin.

That goes against what Pope Pius IX said. But you know what? If William wants to debate people on that's really what the Pope said, I would imagine William would want to do that because if you have popes differing on certain major topics, that seems to be a massive internal contradiction on Roman Catholics' own terms.

So a couple more things here is I don't know a ton of the Roman Catholic position in great detail on Mariology. And so I'm a student of these things. I'm going to continue to try to understand the Roman Catholic side better over time so I can better engage with it.

So William, hear me say I'm a student in these things. That's why I would like to actually develop a good friendship with you so you can educate me more in your perspective. And maybe you would say I can't really teach you anything from my side.

That's okay. But I would like to have a robust, very good back and forth on some of these things. Just know my heart and the matter. That I'm a learner at heart and hopefully you believe me on that. Last thing here, Arturo, is he caught me on saying origin of Alexander.

And I get that that's not origin of Alexandria. That's what I had in my notes. So William, you got to give me some grace, man. I misspoke there. I don't know the early church fathers as well as you. But that's an area that I'm willing to learn.

And from a Protestant's perspective, you got to understand that that's not my ultimate authority. So I actually think just because the early church fathers got something wrong or they were in a different polemical time frame, they weren't warring the same heresies that we're fighting necessarily today.

I don't put all my eggs in the basket of even if all the early church fathers were unanimous on something. To me, that's not the end all be all. I'm listening more to their argumentation for why they believe something.

And I am like a noble Berean that takes their arguments and tests that with scripture. So that's what all Protestants should be saying is that's great that the early church held to certain views. But at the end of the day, what does the Bible teach?

And so I just want to encourage people that that's ultimately what we should be contending for. And a lot of those principles Roman Catholics would agree with. Yeah. So I think it kind of got a little.

Bit cut off. There was a little stutter there. It might be the connection. So you said origin.

Of Alexander. Yeah. And that's wrong. It's origin of Alexandria. And I misspoke in the debate, I said, of Alexander. So, William, you got to show me a little grace, man. I did misspeak with my notes. I went back to my notes.

I had Alexandria like you're supposed to say,.

But it's all good. Yeah. Yeah. When you're in the moment in a debate, you know, things are going to come out that, you know, so my heart was going.

So, yeah, I was like, I was running on adrenaline. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Yeah. You know, I wonder.

Too, man, because I always hear people say St. Augustine or St. Augustine. So, you know, there's things like that where I'm like, I never know which one, you know, anyway, it is what it is. But okay. Sounds good, man.

Sounds good. So the next part I kind of want to, I definitely want to talk about is, in fact, we talked about this in our live discussion on my platform. And it had to do with the quotes that you used in the debate or referenced in the debate.

So let me go ahead and get my video back up here. So now we're at, we're at almost at the seven minute mark in case people want to know. But here we go. Oh, well, you know, Basil denied it.

Irenaeus denied it. No context behind it. When I hear that and whenever the arguments of the popes tip of the hat to Matthew or pushing him to prove the veracity of the quote,.

He's not going to be able to. He can't.

Okay. So that's that, man. So, yeah, you can go ahead and just respond to that if you can.

Yeah. So when I heard William say this, that I was able to respond to Matthew supposedly pressing on the quote, that was interesting because Matthew really didn't press me on these citations. I watched James White debate Jerry Maditax and I saw that there was a issue with James White not having the quotations in English.

He had them in Latin. And so I knew it was very important to have all these citations and quotes ready to go, which I had. And we did talk a little bit, but Matthew did not press me deep on these at all.

And it was because I told Matthew, we can talk about the citations and we can continue to go back and forth. But this is a small point in my overall rebuttal because my response was twofold. I wanted to present an internal contradiction on Rome's own terms.

And then I wanted to vindicate scripture alone is the ultimate authority in the life of the Christian. So just wasting a lot of time trying to dispute citations that so many people agree, early church fathers, canonized saints, and many popes articulated things differently than how Pope Pius IX made a dogma and anathematized it by disagreeing.

It's like pushing rope uphill. Most people don't want to take on that task. And what I told Matthew was another Roman Catholic apologist that he recommended me, which is Robert St. Genes, he bit the bullet in his debate with Tony Costa and James White and just said, it's okay if there's all this disagreement back in church history.

You just can't have any more disagreement after 1854. And so my big point was, we can debate the citations a little bit, but it's really not going to damage anything that I'm pushing for. If anything, you're going to try to salvage not having so huge glaring contradiction on your own side, but it really doesn't touch a whole lot.

So the stronger argument that I brought up to Matthew, and he backed away strong, very fast about going deep into these citations, is that even Robert St. Genes bit the bullet like a lot of Roman Catholics do and say, well, yeah, there was tons of disagreement.

It wasn't unanimous. You did have early church fathers saying that Mary had personal sin. And then when we get into the eight popes, they said that she was born in original sin. I think William, I mean, if he wants to debate that with people, by all means, he tried to with Tony Costa, and Tony brought out how that is just a tough road ahead.

But when William said that he was right for pressing me, Matthew didn't really press me on that. I'm like, it's showing me that William, it would have been good for him to listen to the whole debate, to understand truly my points, because as we're going to get into a little bit, Arturo, William misrepresents me a lot, and it's all good, but when you don't listen to the whole.

Thing, that's bound to happen. Yeah, and for those who are now, who are just now tuning in to this video, the debate was on whether or not Mary was sinless. And as a Protestant, our brother here, Jeremiah, we did a great job.

I'll link the actual debate. I'm definitely going to use that debate and share it with others, whoever, anyone who wants to look into that more and see that both sides. I'm pretty confident in how our brother here handled himself and in that debate.

I think he had the upper hand, and just did a really great job. But in that debate, there's an argument that Jeremiah made that caught the attention of an apologist online, and he's the one that we're, he's the one that we're actually responding to now.

So right now, we're about seven minutes into his response. He hasn't got into the argument yet that we're going to focus on, but that was just some context for you guys, in case you guys are barely tuning in.

So yeah, I want to keep playing the video, Jeremiah, if you don't mind, and have you respond to this next part, okay? I'm going to play about maybe 30, 40 seconds here. So now, I want to be clear.

About one thing. When the gentleman began to try to go into the Greek, it becomes a major mess. He doesn't know any Greek, you can tell. What is the problem? I'm going to take a wild guess and imagine that maybe somebody helped him out, told him, hey, you know what?

You've got this particular Greek word there. You've got these Greek words there. This is a good argument. Hey, here's a new argument. Hasn't been utilized before. Look. All right, so I'll stop it there.

Sure. Now, I'm not going to say much here. I'm going to let you respond and go ahead and.

Just take it away. Yeah, so I wish William could have watched our episode that we did last time, Arturo, because I explained exactly how I came across Humble Estate. Simply, when I was studying more of how Roman Catholics define the Marian dogmas, I noticed the way that they look to Luke 128, where the angel said to Mary, it seemed like all the Marian dogmas spawned back to this verse.

And I thought, you know, in preparation for my debate, I want to know that verse very well in the broader context of everything else that's going on. So not too further later, you see Mary's Magnificat, right?

She is exalting God. She's praying to God. And I thought, man, I really want to be familiar with Mary's prayer. And we come across, and later we're going to talk about this in the video, but she mentioned the word Humble Estate.

It's a phrase, but it's a singular Greek word. And it's a stronger version of humility. How do we know that? Well, she uses the more general word for humble and humility later in her Magnificat. And so I started noticing this terminology got me very curious on, okay, there seems to be more going on with this word.

And I'm going to be accused of reinventing the Greek. We're going to see how that's just not true. A lot of my study, I explained on your channel and on the debate that the tool that I was using to analyze the Greek is the Blue Letter Bible.

And they go back to the Thayer's Greek Lexicon. Now, that has been a widespread resource available to people for a very long time. It's a free resource, which I think is very important. But it never contradicts the updated scholarship that we have today that is super valuable, super important, and props to William for bringing out some of those resources later, which I've already begun the process of investing in Gingrich, BDAG, some of these updated scholarship that is worth the money and investment.

So, what I heard from William there, once again, is a rally cry. He didn't make any technical points about anything, but he's getting the troops ready, right? He's setting that stage, and I get that. I really do.

Yeah. No, that's good, man. That's good. Yeah. And also, just kind of in your defense as well, in our live video that we did on my channel, I made a comment about I was hesitant to even bring up the Blue Letter Bible because, as you know and as I know, I have studied Greek in the past, and I know that a little bit of Greek can be dangerous.

And I just quoted you, in fact, because you're the one that said that on my channel, you know? And so, yeah, a little bit of Greek, not knowing very much. However, the tools are there, and we definitely want to encourage Christians to check out those tools.

Just do it carefully, you know? Make sure you really do your homework. And, you know, William kept saying that you didn't do your homework, and when he's the one that didn't watch the debate to begin with, he didn't see how you handled those texts.

He only responded to like a minute of the entire thing, you know? And some things weren't even accurate. Like, he said that you spoke for 38 minutes, and there was no substance. I'm like, no, he had to speak only for 15 minutes because there was an opening statement.

Before that, you know, it was Matt, you know? So things like that was kind of questionable, but at the same time, it's like, no, man, like, you do your homework. Yeah, a little bit of Greek can be dangerous.

We know that already, and it's not like we're going into it and just like, you know, having fun with it. No, like, and also, too. Can I say one more thing? Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.

Yeah, so I thought this was interesting. So me and William don't know each other, and he basically put me in a corner and said he either figured this out on his own, or he got someone to help him, and I was like, I don't know how many other options there are there, but maybe to his surprise, maybe he'd be like, oh, I knew it.

This particular argument, I totally studied on my own, and I was trying to be real careful with it, too, and as we're going to show, I was arguing for something so much bigger that you have to assume, for the sake of argument, sola scriptura.

So we'll repeat this throughout the video here a few times so people understand. If you grant that the Word of God is preeminent and the ultimate rule of the faith and practice for us, for God's people, then Mary is indistinguishable in terms of her, there's no way to see that she was saved differently than all the other saints, and when she says, God my Savior, we can only understand that one way, that she's a sinner saved by grace through faith, and that's a bigger argument, as you do have to assume sola scriptura in this, and so when she starts utilizing terms that we see in the Old Testament, well, good Bible study, exegesis, and hermeneutics come into play.

We do want to look at the etymology and see the full syntactic domain of these words, so I don't want to jump too far ahead, but we're going to get more into some of these technical things, and it'll be good.

I hope you just listen to this, and we continue some.

Cordial dialogue. All right, all right, so I'm going to go ahead and play this next part. This is going like almost to the nine minute mark. I'm going to go ahead and let it play out for about 40 seconds or so, and allow you to respond, okay?

So at this point, we're kind of almost getting into the argument, so eight minutes in, we're almost getting to the argument. You have to get forward a little bit, you know, but anyway, so here we are.

By the way, the gentleman Jeremiah couldn't deal with Genesis 3. There's a reason why. They can't deal with it. I've heard the very best they can utilize. I've heard the best that modern day Jews can utilize.

Protestantism, I know what the reformers taught on it. There's a reason why he didn't have a reply to that. There's a reason why he had to piggyback on Ephesians 1, thinking that Ephesians 1 and the usage of that particular Greek word would help his case.

The problem is he doesn't know Greek. The problem is the person that I don't know who or what group of individuals might have maybe helped him, they don't know Greek very well either, or if they do, they're trying to play games of Greek to the point where it's a comedy show.

The level of an Adam Sandler comedy movie back when he was in his prime, probably more laughable than that. So we're gonna play the clip.

All right, so there you go, Jeremiah. Feel free to respond to that part.

Yeah, this is a good part to pause because William had some zingers and props. This man has a sense of humor. He was saying that my handling of the Greek is more laughable than an Adam Sandler comedy.

Hey, I get it. Rally the troops, man. Do it. But then on the flip side, we'll get serious and look at the points. And so he brought up two verses. He brought up Genesis 3, 15. And then he said, you know, I ran away from that because I couldn't deal with it.

And I tried to run away to Ephesians 1 verse 6. And I do want to admit something. In the debate, we talked about this last time, Arturo. When I went back and listened to the debate, I was like, oh, man, I wish I would have responded a little bit differently because I misunderstood Matthew's point when he was talking about Genesis 3, 15.

He was talking about the word enmity. We're going to define this word here in a minute. I thought he was saying that Mary was the one crushing the head of the serpent, almost to be like, oh, there's some textual variant here in the Hebrew.

It really should say her because I've looked up articles. And some Roman Catholics take that line of thinking. They take one of the popes. I can't remember which one. It might have been the one right after Pope Pius IX.

But one of them makes a strong case that it is Mary, the one who's crushing the head of the serpent. And if anybody is familiar with Genesis 3, 15 and the manuscript tradition there, that is never disputed that it really should be the woman there and referred to a feminine noun referring to her.

That's not true. So that's what I immediately jumped to conclusions. And everybody has to understand when you're debating, you try to listen, you try to understand the opponent, but you're also trying to get ready for what you're going to say next.

So I want to totally own that. I misunderstood Matthew's point, but I rightly understand it now. And really, he's keen on the word enmity. And so, Arturo, I have a quote here from Matthew in our debate.