EP 36 – DAVID BENHAM on the courage to Tear Down High Places! #courageousfaith #maga #maca #prolife

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Conservatism is pretend salt. It acts like salt, tastes like salt, smells like salt. It even seeks the vote of salt, but it ain't salt because it's not willing to die.

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And that's why Christians have to get engaged here. I don't identify Democrat or Republican. I identify kingdom.

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Now, I'm gonna vote Republican because that's lessening evil to the best of my ability, but my identity is kingdom first.

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And so when I see the shedding of the innocent blood and I see now them really ramping it up, and it's become key issue number one of the presidential election, who would have thought of that?

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Who would have thought that you would have Tim Walz on the ticket who believes that you can allow an unborn child that was meant to be aborted but actually is born alive, leave them alone and let that baby die.

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Right, right. David, pleasure to meet you on film here, buddy. How are you? Man, I'm amazing.

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How are you, brother? Better than I deserve. David, I want to introduce you to Pastor Jeff Clewer.

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Hey, Pastor, how are you? Better than I deserve. Good to meet you, my friend. Thank you for being willing to come on the show.

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I mean, New Jersey's like way out of your neck of the woods and we figured all you Southerners just wrote us off as like completely gone.

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No, man. Hey, we got lots of salt crystals sprinkled out there in New Jersey, man.

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That's right. There's still stuff happening here. There's 7 ,000 of you that have not bowed your knees. That's about how many.

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Maybe even a couple more than that, hopefully. Yeah, amen. Come on, let's go. Yeah, David, I was so glad to meet you out at the

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Life Surge event, which was phenomenal. What a great event. Oh, praise the Lord, man. It's been crazy.

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We'll probably have a couple hundred thousand attendees at our events. They give

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Jason and I, they just let us speak. And then backstage, we get to hit a lot of those pastors. And one of them in particular, the most famous pastor on our stage recently came up to my brother and I, because I challenged him about Mordecai and Esther.

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I said, hey, Mordecai told Esther, don't leverage your platform in Esther chapter two.

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I said, but in Esther chapter four, he said, you better leverage it. How do you know you weren't saved for such a time as this? I said, what was the difference between chapter two and chapter four?

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And he looked at me. I said, when the plot of Haman got into the head of the king, Esther had to stand.

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And I said, do you think, Haman means adversary. You think the plot of the adversary is in the head of our kings today? You think it's entrenched in culture today?

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He said, yeah. And I said, then you should use your platform. Ah, wow. So thanks so much again for being here.

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And really, what really got me excited, and I talked to Pastor Jeff about this. I said, you know what I wanna talk to David about?

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Courage. I, for so long, I got saved when I was 35. I'm 56 now.

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But for so long, even as a baby Christian, I didn't really consider cowardice to be the sin that it is, you know?

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And I just love watching you guys and all the courage you've shown, just looking at your adversity.

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And I'm thinking, you probably got a few opinions about stuff in the culture today, places that we can tear down, you know, because we don't have enough high places to tear down, you know what

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I mean? Yeah, yeah. As a matter of fact, I don't really have opinions. I agree with the judge who's already recorded what is right and wrong, what is truth and lies, and what is good and evil.

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So I agree with that guy. I'm not the judge he is.

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I just agree with him. And people call me judgmental. That's not judgmental. That's actually submitted. That's actually the most loving thing that we can do.

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So it's just an honor to be on this. I love the fact that you're tearing down high places. I love, you know, as I read, for those listeners that don't know my full story, and I won't go into it right now until you ask me, but, you know,

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I was raised by a pastor and my twin brother and I read the Bible. We didn't have cell phones growing up as kids.

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So I was reading the Bible. And I would read in first and second Kings, this

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King did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, but he failed to destroy the high places. And then you'd read again in three chapters later, this

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King did what was right in the eyes of the Lord, but he failed to destroy the high places. And I kept thinking, now, why would they not touch those high places?

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It's just, listen, the demonic activity on those high places, the devil and his demons back then are the same devil and demons today.

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They haven't been cast into the lake of fire and judged for eternity. They just have different names and different agendas.

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It's the same nonsense we see that's perverting our school systems. It's taking over mainstream media.

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That's taking Hollywood and our music and infiltrating now the churches. And it's just this, and God's men and women are the ones that the

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Lord says, do not fear over 300 plus times in scripture. Do not fear.

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You know what that presupposes? That we're gonna have some scary moments. Yes, it does.

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Courage isn't the absence of fear. It's doing what's right in the face of it. Yeah. Saul saw a giant too big to fight.

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David saw a giant too big to miss. It's all in your perspective.

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And right now is a time when the church can really be salt and light in a bold way.

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You know, if I ask the two of you, when you're sitting at the marriage supper of the lamb, think about this.

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We're at the marriage dadgum supper of the lamb. By the way, there will be a Tomahawk ribeye there.

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It'll be Wagyu. But just before we bite into that ribeye,

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David tells his story in real time. And then Hannah tells her story.

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Then Mary tells hers. Then Joshua tells his. And then they get to us. They get to me.

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And can you imagine if it's like this, I'm an American Christian. I'm like, well, there's this thing called

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Instagram and people made fun of me. I can just imagine the patriarchs going, okay, so when did they cut your head off?

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Like, when did they dismember you? And you're like, well, no, they didn't. They just made fun of me.

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Oh, man. And they're like, that's it? That's it. That's it. That's it. You wrote nasty things about me on Facebook.

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Yeah, I mean, come on. Seriously, we cannot read the Bible. Oh, man.

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All right, I gotta introduce you to someone else now, David. I got another pastor coming on here. Pastor Tim, welcome and meet

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Mr. David Benham. Nice to meet you, Mr. Benham. Nice to meet you, Tim.

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You're handsome. Thanks. Same to you, man. Same to you. Yeah, yeah.

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I'm the square head in a good looking group of guys here. Glad to be here.

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Just average Joe and everyone in the audience. Welcome to Tear Down Our Places. We've got

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David Benham as our special guest today, and we've got Pastor Tim and Pastor Jeff as per usual.

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And we're just talking about courage. You know, David, you got a little background in adversity, don't you?

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Yeah, well, you know, I grew up, my dad was a pastor and he said that his role was not to be standing behind a pulpit, but it was to be going into the darkest places of our city.

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So I was in Dallas, Texas at the time that I was 16 years old. We had 21 abortion clinics.

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And dad would say, listen, we need to mobilize the church so that we can help these moms and give them options and choices.

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And he said, and it's not popular. So he actually put his church office next to the busiest abortion clinic in Dallas, Texas.

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And it just so happened that one of the clinic workers was Norma McCorvey, who was the

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Jane Roe of Roe v. Wade. And I can remember her and her lesbian partner coming to our house for dinner.

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I remember the power of the gospel. Literally, I would watch it as a young teenage boy. I would just see over a dinner table, just the power of the gospel, like affecting her.

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And not long after that, my dad's baptizing her. And I would just watch that as a young kid.

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And, but at the same time, this was kind of the birth of the megachurch movement. And a lot of the megachurch movement was to avoid what they considered political issues.

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And I remember my dad always saying, listen, abortion, life, marriage, just like the moral boundaries of God, those aren't political issues.

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Those are moral, spiritual gospel issues. And the church needs to have a voice.

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Otherwise, because if we don't speak to it, the culture will. And the culture will end up redefining it.

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And sure enough, now fast forward, I'll be 49 next month. And you're looking at the redefinition of what it means to be a human.

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Because Christians, we have backed out of what quote, quote, political conversation.

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It's not political. That's such a lie from the devil. So it takes courage to step into what the devil would call political and say, you know what?

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God's blessings are found inside of God's boundaries. And if the boundaries are removed, the blessings are replaced with burdens.

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So in the church, we can't just talk about the blessed life. We got to talk about the boundaries you need to stay inside of in order to get those blessings.

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That's what love looks like. I mean, you do that with your kids, right? Could you imagine your 12 year old, dad, can

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I have the keys to the car? You're like, no. No boundaries. Yeah, well, then if they're like, you said, no, you hate me.

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You're a hater. You're like, no, I don't hate you. That's just immaturity talking. I love you.

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But the most loving thing I can do is give you a boundary to keep you safe. David, last week, we're at our local library who's bringing in a bunch of child pornography and calling it a book sanctuary.

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So we're out there and these people had no boundaries. And we asked the same question you're asking right now.

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By what standard? By what standard are we gonna hold each other accountable as a community, you know?

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But they wanna force their feelings on us.

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Yeah, well, in those days, the book of Judges, in those days, there was no king. Everyone did what was right in the eyes of the

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Lord. And what we see here in America, because we as Christians have not been salt and light and actually spoke,

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I'm talking about our spiritual leaders, our shepherds, our big dogs. Our most articulate voices have backed out.

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And now the culture is actually shaping, it's being shaped by men and women with no moral standards.

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As a matter of fact, they do have a standard. It's a deviant, wicked, demonic standard that robs and kills and destroys starting at the identity level.

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But what happens is you see that law, good law is to be based on an objective standard for people's comfort or for people's safety.

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Bad law is based on a subjective standard for someone's comfort. And what we're seeing now is we're seeing ordinances and statutes.

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We're seeing things passed, not just in school board, but in county commission. And we're seeing these bathroom bills and all this other stuff.

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It is bad law. It's based on a subjective standard. Like gender is fluid now.

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You can't, it's not objective anymore. And it's all for people's comfort. That is the flip -flop.

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That's the opposite of the kingdom. And it is not hate to step into those conversations and to speak the truth.

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And here's what we found. And sorry, I'm just sitting here taking over the interview, but I just - It's okay, it's what I'm here for.

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I get so passionate about this. I get so passionate about this because sometimes you're sitting there watching the news and you're like, where are the celebrities?

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Where are the celebrity Christians? Like all American Airlines can speak. PayPal can speak. Starbucks can speak.

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All these other celebrity CEOs and singers and athletes can speak, but where are the

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Christians? Like, and when they do speak, they get bullied into a closet. So it's like, okay.

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Yeah, now is a time for us to shine the light. First Timothy 3 .15

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says, "'The church is the pillar and support of the truth.'" Now, if the pillar and support of the truth is not supporting the truth, then truth is gonna be redefined.

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And you're not even gonna know what truth is. And when that happens, anarchy and lawlessness and all kinds of stuff begins to take place.

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And so now we're just really praying, God, get the salt out of the salt shaker. Wow. David, I'm just hung up on something you said about five minutes ago.

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Your dad led Jane Roe to Christ and baptized her lesbian partner? Yes. That's wild.

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Yeah, when Ms. Connie was her partner and she prayed to receive the

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Lord, dad baptized Jane Roe in a swimming pool and a friend of our swimming pool.

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And that was national news. And so he was all over the news. But then just a few weeks later, he baptized

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Connie. He told my brother and I, we went to Walmart to buy the blow up swimming pool. So we had to build a little blow up swimming pool, but then we grabbed it.

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We got a U -Haul trailer and we moved Connie out of Norma's house. Dad said, no, this is not a lifestyle that you can live.

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When you give your heart to Christ, you repent, which means to turn from your sin. And she did.

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And that was not hateful of my dad to say, turn from your lesbian lifestyle.

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That was love. That's what love looks like. And then it took 50 years for Roe versus Wade to fall.

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Yes, it did at the court level. But the church now really has the battle because Roe versus Wade being at the

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Supreme Court level, being struck down only emboldened the radical left to get even more aggressive with abortion because they need abortion.

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Listen, the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, the blood that he shed to forgive us of our sins, the devil is the copycat kingdom.

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He wants bloodshed. The sacrifice of the unborn, that is the sacrament of Satan's kingdom.

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He has to have the shedding of innocent blood. And so this is the reason why the

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Democrats are really just frothing at the mouth and getting vehement about this because that is their sacrament of the prince of the air that is empowering their agenda.

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Now, the Republicans, unfortunately, it's pretend salt. Conservatism is pretend salt.

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It acts like salt, tastes like salt, smells like salt. It even seeks the vote of salt, but it ain't salt because it's not willing to die.

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And that's why Christians have to get engaged here. I don't identify Democrat or Republican. I identify kingdom.

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Now, I'm gonna vote Republican because that's lessening evil to the best of my ability, but my identity is kingdom first.

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And so when I see the shedding of the innocent blood and I see now them really ramping it up and it's become key issue number one of the presidential election, who would have thought of that?

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Who would have thought that you would have Tim Walz on the ticket who believes that you can allow an unborn child that was meant to be aborted, but actually is born alive, leave them alone and let that baby die.

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Infant born alive, he votes against that stuff that you should save a baby that's born alive when they tried to have an abortion.

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It's just insanity what we're doing in this country. Well, he got some discernment. He's got the gift of discernment.

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I was just gonna say the sons of Issachar understood the times and knew what we have to do. Yeah. And that's what we need, is sons of Issachar that have the gift of discernment to recognize what time it is and what we need to do.

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So we need to fight off any new abortion federal law, the funding for Planned Parenthood.

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We need to fight that. What about the Equality Act? Yeah, absolutely. The Equality Act is a lie.

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It's always interesting how the radical left, and I call it the radical left, they take good words and they twist it into disguising just evil acts.

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Like the whole idea of black lives matter. Of course black lives matter. All lives matter, but yeah, black lives matter.

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Of course they do. But that was just a disguise to rob, to kill, and to destroy our legal system in our country.

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But anyway, I digress. But yeah, the Equality Act, it always goes this way.

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At first, they want to accept our behavior. Just think about the LGBTQ thought mafia, right?

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The LGBTQ radical militia. First they want acceptance. We just want you to accept the lifestyle.

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But it doesn't stop there. Then they want celebration. Then they want, no, no, no, excuse me.

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Then they want appreciation. Then they want celebration. Now they want participation, right? And those that don't get on board, the first thing they do is they marginalize you.

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They marginalize your views. Oh, that's just fringe. The next thing they do is they demonize your views.

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But eventually they want to criminalize your views. And that's what the Equality Act is. It is the culmination of a digressive slide into criminalization of being not only just a conservative, but a

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Christian, a biblical thinker. That's exactly what's happening to us. So it starts with marginalized, then demonized, and eventually criminalized.

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So that's why we have to stand and fight against these lies that are being pushed on us.

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Yeah, I think the Republicans, no one's talking about the Equality Act. It passed, for our audience, it passed the

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House in 2021. The Senate blocked it, but they have it teed up, ready to go. It would literally destroy

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Christian orthodoxy. It would prevent our pastors here from counseling anyone with homosexual feelings by opening up the

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Bible. They couldn't give them any kind of biblical counseling. We have this psychology instead shoved down our throats and forced upon us with our health insurance.

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It's absolutely horrendous. Why do you think the Republicans, and David, when do you think we're gonna have to, you know, chastise the

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Republicans? I mean, we should be doing it now, but at what point do we say to the Republicans, you're not representing us either?

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Yeah, you know, I don't know. I mean, it's just so sad what they've done with the platform.

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They've slowly but surely, you know, they've become, in my opinion, what I would say celebrity pastor -ish.

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So the Republicans are simply following the leadership of some of the mainline churches.

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Just be silent on issues. They got soft on abortion, right? The Republicans, it's just a real shame.

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They feel like, well, let's just do, instead of being principle -based, they're electability -based, right?

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You know, even Trump, the art of the deal. Like, you know, he's like, hey, you know, he's just trying to get elected, right?

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I'm gonna vote for Trump, right? Because I think it's the lesser, not just the lesser of two evils, but it's what lessens evil, you know?

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And so I'll vote for him. But, you know, even him on his position on abortion. And so we are sitting here waiting for the

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Republicans to be courageous when we look at the church and we are being led by a bunch of cowards.

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Now, thank God for the pastors that are standing. Thank God for every one big superstar celebrity that's gutless.

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There are a thousand faithful in the trenches. I thank God for that. But, you know, we're asking, you know, the

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Republican Party to be strong and courageous when you look at the leadership of the

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American church on social media and Instagram, and they're gutless and cowards. They don't, our most articulate men will not speak on these issues.

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They are intentionally vague. And as a result, they're letting the world define what is right and wrong.

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I love Martin Luther King Jr.'s quote, when he said, the church must be reminded that it is neither the master nor the servant of the state, rather it's the conscience of the state.

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You know, you think about if the conscience goes dark, I mean, what on earth are people gonna do? So - So well said.

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Yeah, so we gotta stand up. It's the Republicans are just simply following the leadership of the church. When the church gets it right,

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Republicans will get it right. And if they don't get it right at that point, by that time, we've got enough momentum in the church, we start a new party.

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That's what the Whigs, it was the Democrats and the Whigs in 1856 until the leadership said, okay, we're starting a new party.

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We're going after slavery. And 1856 was the beginning of the Republican Party. It was a new party. John C.

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Fremont was their first nominee and he lost. But then in 1860, they got

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Lincoln. Whether you like Lincoln or not doesn't matter. It was a new political party on the scene.

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And they were the party of freedom. They were the party of the marginalized. They were the party of the African -Americans.

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And unfortunately, the Democrats have stolen that narrative, but we may have to start a new one, but the church has to wake up.

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Yeah, I like what you said about the pastors. And Pastor Jeff wrote a book where he labeled all the pastors as either red, gray, or blue.

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The blue ones are easy to identify because they've got rainbow flags outside and female pastors and they're not helping anybody.

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But the red and the gray are where we're trying to work. So the blood red pastor is the one calling out the politicians and saying, hey,

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I am gonna be your conscience as your local church leader. The gray ones are the ones you're talking about.

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These ones where they're trying to be on both sides of the culture. They're trying to, they don't want their flock to know if they're

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Democrat or Republican or what their views are. And what is that?

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How do we impact those people, David? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They do not wanna be persecuted for the cross of Christ.

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They're denying Christ. The fear of man and a man -pleasing spirit has gripped them. They're operating strategically in the mind, no longer spiritually in the heart.

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They're doing things for God, no longer with God. And if you read the scripture, God allows that.

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He allows people to do those things. We look, my dad, when I was a kid, he would say the only thing worse than a wolf in sheep's clothing is a wolf in shepherd's clothing.

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Wow. So when you see a wolf in shepherd's clothing, that's the blue of what you're talking about.

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That's those that are raising the gay flag over their church and all of that. But I would take it a step further today and say one step worse than a wolf in shepherd's clothing is sheep in shepherd's clothing.

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And that is where we have a lot of these weak pastors who are not shepherds.

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Wolves are coming in and scattering and devouring the flock. The demonic wolves that are attacking identity, they're preying on the sexuality of our children.

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They are literally redefining what it means to be male and female. They're bullying and intimidating

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Christians on university campuses and across the board. And now with this Equality Act might criminalize

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Christians. These pastors are sheep in shepherd's clothing. And here's why I mean.

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John chapter 10, Jesus tells us what a good shepherd does. He says, a good shepherd.

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He says, I'm the good shepherd. When a wolf shows up, the good shepherd takes the wolf out.

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But a hireling flees and runs. And he says in John chapter 10, he runs because he does not care about the sheep.

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He cares about himself. And when your income, your image and your influence depend on people liking you, then you're never gonna stand.

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If your income, your image and your influence are you care more about that than you do about standing for truth, you are nothing but sheep in shepherd's clothing.

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You've misidentified yourself, sir. You're not a shepherd. You are sheep. And you happen to have this mantle.

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You happen to have this little thing on Sunday morning and the cameras can shine on you and you've got your

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Rolex and your cool shoes and your spray tan. You spent more time on your freaking outfit than you did in the word of God.

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I'm telling you, man, God's gonna burn those boys away. They're gonna get run off stage because people are starting to recognize, whoa, this stuff's in my school system.

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This stuff's in my library. They're taking my kids. Now I can't even go to a Christian university without them saying that I hate people because the secretary can't have a beard and high heels and be a dude.

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People are like, wow, they're starting to wake up. And they realize, oh yeah, that was just actually, you just had a life coach that was giving you a

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TEDx sermon. He ain't a real shepherd. And God is starting to shift those boys out of leadership positions and raise up real shepherds.

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Makes me think of Galatians 110, for am I seeking the approval of man or of God? Because if I was seeking the approval of man, then

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I wouldn't be a servant of Christ Jesus. Do you think that could be a part of it too? Seeking the approval of man instead of God?

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Yeah, well, we're gonna jump into some theology on this one, Tim. Thank you for bringing that up. In the book of Galatians, Paul's writing

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Galatians and Peter, who's like a pillar in the church, right?

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The issue at that time was gospel plus, gospel plus circumcision or gospel plus, like the leaders and the influencers of the day were of the circumcision group.

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They were the guys that they were believers in Jesus, but they said, you'd also need to have some of the

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Jewish customs of the Mosaic law. Circumcision would be one of them. And Paul was like, whoa, whoa, whoa.

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It's the gospel. It ain't the gospel plus anything. It is straight the gospel of Jesus. And he says in Galatians 1, you're afraid of the cross.

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You are trying to please the circumcision group, right? Those were the influencers of the day.

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And then in Galatians 2, Paul rebukes Peter. He says, when

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I saw Peter was not straightforward about the truth of the gospel, I rebuked him in the presence of all.

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Now, why would he rebuke Peter? Because when the circumcision or the influence, I'm just gonna call them influencers because that's what it was.

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It's the same issue today as it was then. When the influencers were around, Peter began to stay away from the

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Greeks, the Gentiles. And as a result of that, Paul rebuked him and said, you're not being straightforward.

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Now, Peter was not saying, it's the gospel plus circumcision.

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He wasn't saying that, he wasn't preaching that, but he was keeping his mouth quiet. And I love how

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Matthew Henry said, check this out. Matthew Henry said about that particular issue. He said,

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Peter, by his timid conduct in the presence of the circumcision group, led people to believe circumcision was necessary for the gospel.

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Wow. You see what he says? That's because he did not deal with it. Now, let's fast forward 2000 years.

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It's the gospel minus. It's the gospel minus righteousness, the gospel minus truth, the gospel minus repentance.

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It's this cheap, sloppy grace nonsense. Everybody's welcome. Everybody's welcome.

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Well, of course, everybody's welcome to come, but not to stay the same because Jesus changes you from the inside out.

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And we've got these pastors who are, their timid conduct in the face of the gospel minus crowd.

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Right? Their timid conduct are leading young people to believe I can be a gay

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Christian. I can be a transgender Christian. I can be a

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Christian who goes and just gets as many abortions as I need to because God loves me.

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God is love. Love wins. And it's like, you're timid conduct, pastor.

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You need to be rebuked because why? Just like Paul said, you're not being straightforward about the truth of the gospel.

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That's Galatians. That's the moment where we're in the exact same spiritual moment. It was gospel plus then, it's gospel minus now, same spiritual condition.

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David, what do you think about these pastors that are saying you can be, you can't be a gay

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Christian, but you can have gay thoughts and that's okay. You don't need to repent of those.

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Well, I mean, so are we transformed by the renewing of our mind, right?

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Like when in 2 Corinthians chapter 10, verse five, is the pastor biblical or is he just a

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TEDx pastor? Because 2 Corinthians 10, five says, and we take captive every, finish the sentence.

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Thought. Thought and make it obedient to Christ. See, here's the key. Thoughts become feelings.

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Feelings become actions. The battle for your soul, sometimes you get random thoughts.

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Like I've had random thoughts, like, wow, look at her, right? That's not godly. But when that thought hits, it's between thought and feeling that you have to win the battle.

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You take that thought captive and you make it obedient to Christ. I am a husband, I'm a father.

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He who sows to the flesh will of the flesh reap destruction. That woman is a daughter of God. He created her.

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I don't know where she's at with Jesus. I pray for her salvation, right? But I will not objectify her, right? You're winning that thought and you're not allowing it to become a feeling.

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The problem is, is these pastors that are like, oh, gay thoughts are okay. Well, at what point do you take it captive and make it obedient and kill it?

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Because if you don't, those thoughts will become feelings. And when the feelings begin to happen, that's what leads to action.

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So that's why we have to win that battle. So I think that pastor is dead wrong. I think random thoughts hit us all, but we have to take them captive and kill those thoughts.

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Yes, sadly, we see very godly men, letting those fondling those thoughts and coming and falling hard.

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And it could happen to any of us guys. So by the grace of God, go I. That's right.

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It can happen to any of us guys. But at the same time in this battle, so when we're talking about homosexual tendencies or homosexuality or just straight up lesbianism and just running with the whole radical

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LGBTQ agenda, there's a difference between the enslaved and the enslaver. Now in the

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Bible, or even in our normal everyday life, 99 % of people you come in contact with are just enslaved to their sin, just like we all once were.

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Now Jesus dealt with the people that were enslaved to their sin with mercy and compassion. Think of the woman caught in adultery.

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You without sin cast the first stone. Then he looks at her. Women, where are your accusers? She says, there are none. He says, go and sin no more.

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Man, how merciful is that? She was enslaved in her sin, clearly caught.

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She could have been judged right there on the spot, but he was so compassionate. But now then there, that's the 99%.

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But then there are the enslavers, those who have given themselves to do the works of the enemy.

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How did Jesus talk to them? Sure. He called them names. You whitewashed walls, you den of thieves, you brood of serpents, right?

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Because there are those who have sold themselves to do the works of the enemy. And today's culture, we have the enslaved.

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I mean, so many homosexual people are enslaved and who knows what the trauma trigger is. I don't know their story.

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And we reach out to them at a personal level with compassion. But then there are the enslavers.

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They have sold themselves to push the agenda of the devil to keep these people enslaved in their sins.

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And they wrap it around an ideology and they say, you have to identify with your, they don't use the word sin, identify with your sexuality.

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We're saying no. And those that would vote for the Equality Act, you are now voting with the enslavers that will prevent pastors and counselors and Christian schools from helping those who want to be out of the bondage of homosexual sin and they want the freedom of Christ.

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The enslavers do not want us to even have the ability to bring them out of that sin.

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You have to deal with the enslaver and you have to call it what it is. And that's where these pastors, they have to discern.

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Their messages are generally to the enslaved, but you also have to address the enslavers.

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And if you won't address the enslavers, they're gonna continue to enslave. That's why a real shepherd recognizes a wolf.

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How on earth can a shepherd say, that's a wolf and that's a sheep? Does he have to make a judgment call?

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Yes, yes, of course, of course he does. Of course he does. You have to say that person has sold themselves to do the works of the enemy.

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He is leveraging his platform and his influence to lead people astray and I have to deal with it and I will.

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Jeff, what do you think? How are we dealing with these gray pastors that we were just talking about? What do you think about his analogy with the sheep that are disguised as shepherds?

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Yeah, I think that it's definitely a pandemic in our culture, just cowardice being the pandemic.

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What I wanna ask David is, what's possible for us in South Jersey? Because we desired to plant a church in 2021 and by God's grace, it took off and it got rooted and is established, it's called

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The Rock. We wanted to start in an orphanage in Africa and by God's grace, it happened.

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We were able to fund it and this young man named Hamilton did all the work over there. Similarly, we have a desire to plant another church and to see this church take root and even change the culture.

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And one of the things that struck me about your story and I only really got to know you today, brother, so I'm super encouraged right now, but I heard about the miracle in Shreveport and what your dad instilled in you about what was possible for you and your brother and it's kind of like the world is always like, chase your dreams and we in Christianity, we kind of wanna push back against that and say, do the will of God, not just follow your heart and follow your dreams, but can we overreact in that direction and not realize that the

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Lord will give us dreams that come from Him? And that if we have faith, we can move mountains.

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And can South Jersey become a stronghold of the gospel of Jesus Christ?

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And can we even change the voting habits of this whole region, maybe the whole state?

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Can we take our whole country back? Like what's possible? Talk to us about dreams and faith.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah, Psalm 37. You guys have all read it. You know the verse Psalm 37 for delight yourself in the

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Lord and he will grant you the desires of your heart. In other words, when you delight in what

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God delights in, when what angers God angers you, you then become, your heart begins to shape and be developed by the spirit of God.

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And the dreams that you then have in your heart are from the Lord, right? If you're walking with the

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Lord, and that's what I tell my boys, I've got two boys already grown living in Nashville. One got engaged recently, and then

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I got two girls both in college and I got another one left at the house. But I tell my boys, are you walking with Jesus?

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Yes, dad. I said, do you know before the living God, would

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He look at your heart and say, He's committed to me? Yeah, dad. I said, okay, then tell me what the dreams are that are in your heart right now.

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Well, I wanna own a private equity group and I wanna make kingdom impact by owning multifamily buildings. I said, that's in your heart.

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It's possible. Let's go get it, right? You know, let's, yes. I think, are you kidding me?

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Listen, in Jersey, in the United States of America, one of two things is gonna happen. Jesus is gonna return or we're gonna have a great awakening, right?

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One of those is a guarantee. I don't know what part we're gonna be in, whether He's gonna return or we're gonna have an awakening, but either way,

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I don't know if we're on the front end. I don't know if we're gonna go to jail first. I don't know what any of that looks like, but I know if I go down,

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I'm going down standing up. I've already made up my mind, right? And so that's the goal is, number one,

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I wanna delight myself in the Lord. I wanna get before the Lord Jesus Christ. But it's interesting, the two verses before Psalm 37, for dwell on the land, cultivate faithfulness, trust in the

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Lord and do good. That's what he's saying. Where is the land where God has placed you? He told

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Adam and Eve, subdue and fill the whole earth, have dominion over it. And then he put them in a garden. So the question is, where is your garden?

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Where has God put you? What is the garden that you are supposed to tend? Starting with your own heart and your wife and your children, right?

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In your school community and your sports community and wherever you are, where is the garden that God has called you to tend?

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Now occupy right there and seek my will. And when you do that, what are the dreams you have for your garden?

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What are they? What are they? Then go after them. God will grant you the desires of your heart if your heart is fully committed to please him.

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So I do believe that the Lord could do that in New Jersey. I don't know if we go down before we go up, right?

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If I wanna dunk a basketball, like I used to could do, not anymore, I think I'd jack my

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Achilles tendon up if I tried now. But if I wanna dunk a basketball, I gotta squat down before I can jump up.

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Yeah, I was a pro baseball player. I didn't just take a baseball in my hand and just launch it forward.

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No, I went backwards with my arm and then I could throw it forward. Same thing with batting. I would get my hands up and I'd go backwards and then forward.

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So I don't know if we're in the backwards momentum right now or if we're about to be in the forward momentum.

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I don't know where we're at in that, but I do know that I wanna be involved and I do wanna dream big.

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And I believe your dream for New Jersey, your dream for the orphanages, I feel it's from the heart of the

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Lord. Where we can go wrong is when ambition starts to get into the driver's seat instead of staying in the passenger seat, right?

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Ambition is a terrible leader but a great follower. We should be ambitious but we cannot have selfish ambition because when we do, we begin to operate strategically and no longer spiritually.

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Because sometimes the spirit of God will call us to do things that don't make strategic sense.

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How about Abraham sacrificing Isaac, right? That didn't make strategic sense. And so it doesn't make strategic sense for a lot of pastors to take strong stand on issues because I don't build a big church that way or I don't get more social media followers that way or whatever,

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I take criticism. Well, but that's what the spirit of God is telling us to do. So anyway, we gotta make sure that ambition doesn't get in the driver's seat, it stays in the passenger seat.

40:19

Amen. Well, guys, I just thank you so much, David, for coming out here.

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Listen, we don't wanna take up all your time but you being a pro baseball player, a former

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Boston Red Sox who I had an affiliation with as a kid, do you think the

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Phil's can do it this year? What do you think? Hey, the Phil's aren't that bad. Yeah, they're pretty good, man.

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They got Bryce Harper. I just love watching him swing. He swings viciously.

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You know, if we as Christians took the same approach to our faith that he takes up to the plate when he swings the bat.

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Yeah. Let's go. Let's go. Gotta take a swing to the pitch. Let's go.

41:00

We wanna tear down some high places, sir. And yeah, where can we go next, David?

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What's your ministry doing? I mean, you've given us some great insights but what's your ministry?

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What's your heart? Where are you going right now? I'll answer that. But first, Tim, you were just about to say something.

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Go ahead. Oh, sorry. Yeah, I got a fan of yours.

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My wife, Mary Elizabeth. Here, come meet David. Her and her family are a fan of you and your brother.

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Hi. Hi, Mary Elizabeth. How are you? I'm doing pretty good.

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I actually used to live in Charlotte. Wonderful. I don't know if you're familiar with Central Church of God.

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Yes, absolutely I am. That's where I was attending for quite some time and I was in their choir with my little brother.

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Oh, I love that. Well, it's very nice to meet you. It's nice to meet you too. Mary Elizabeth, if we need more of you, we always get lots of likes when you're on.

42:04

That's right. Yeah, you keep her on. You'll get the likes. Okay, so ministry, it's interesting not to go off on a sermon, but where you're placed and how you're paid does not define the minister.

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A lot of times, especially for the listeners, you may think that if you're a plumber or a janitor or whatever, you're not a minister.

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No, if you have Jesus in your heart, you're a full -time minister right where you're at. You're on mission and your work is worship.

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So it doesn't matter whether you're a pastor or a plumber or even a politician. Like if you have the spirit of the living

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God inside of you, wherever God has placed you, that is where your ministry is. So God has placed

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Jason and me. We are business coaches. You know, we've built several businesses and scaled them up internationally and domestically.

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And so our businesses all are being run by subject matter experts now so that Jason and I can focus on speaking and coaching.

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So we speak 30, 40 times a year. And our goal is to take your theology and make it your biography, to be salt, to be salt and light.

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And then our business coaching at expertownership .com, we call it expert ownership. You wanna own every area of your life.

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And we talk about how do we scale our businesses and how can we generate resources for kingdom impact and do it in a way that truly honors

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God and also blesses your family and your health and all of that. So we do coaching and we do speaking.

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That's what we spend most of our time doing. That's our ministry. I don't know. You have any questions there for David?

43:37

Come on, man. Like the question that I do have was getting more involved with your love life.

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I am, are you familiar with Paige Bryden? Yes. So I was like pretty close with her in the choir.

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And I know that she kept like, you know, trying to prompt me to really get out there.

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And I know that it's like a lot of people have a lot of apprehension with how many people are aggressive and abrasive when it comes to people, you know, kind of being outside of the

44:06

Planned Parenthood facilities and preaching the word of God. Is there any way that you can encourage us, like even as a church or for any of the people, you know, watching the podcast that, you know, you can give them some encouragement so they can start speaking up and you know, spending their time to, you know, spread awareness for life.

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What a great question. Best question yet. You guys need to have her on more. No, I'm, I believe that was a great question.

44:36

If we could spend another hour on this, but we have a ministry called Love Life. You know, it's one thing to be against abortion.

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It's another thing to be pro -life. And in John chapter 10, the one that was robbed, beaten, and left for dead in the ditch.

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You remember the priest and the Levite walked by on the other side of the ditch, but it was the Samaritan that actually stopped.

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It said he was filled with compassion. So he interrupted his day, got down into the ditch, bandaged his wounds, anointed his head with oil, took him to an inn, paid for him, and then said, whatever he needs, charge it to my account.

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That's what we do with Love Life. We now have 24 cities and we are recruiting city catalysts.

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And what we do, the most easiest thing is lovelife .org. Lovelife .org,

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go there. You can have your church just look at our material and become a house of refuge.

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What is a house of refuge? It is a church that will read from his pulpit once a quarter.

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Once a quarter, you simply read from your pulpit, and I'm gonna summarize it. Basically it says, if you find yourself in an unintended or unplanned pregnancy, here are the things that we will not do.

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We will not shame you. We will not humiliate you. We will not abandon you. Here are the things that we will do. We will honor you.

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We will love you. We will take care of you. We will protect you. If you find yourself in an abusive situation or whatever, we as a church will come around you, right?

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This house of refuge church model, I mean, we've got 1100 houses of refuge now across the country.

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And the pastor will then, once a quarter, has a chance to read that and then speak on what

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God says about life. And I'm telling you, just getting churches talking about the issue is so important because God cares about it.

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And I'm telling you, we are seeing, we are just seeing thousands upon thousands upon thousands.

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I mean, that's no exaggeration of people saying, I was afraid, but now

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I'm gonna go ahead and have this baby because I know I have support. So instead of them running to Planned Parenthood, they're now running to the local church because they heard the pastor speak.

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So lovelife .org, house of refuge, that is a very simple action point.

46:53

Hey, David, I wanna give you some more encouragement here. We've actually had Brian Oettinger at our church and we established a love life ministry in Cherry Hill.

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It's on pause at the moment. And I think we might need a different place to stand in front of that, just because we didn't see a lot of fruit there, but we did get one rescue that we were aware of.

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But how many people didn't go in because they saw the group out there praying? How many, you know, how much fruit will we see when we get to heaven?

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But we wanna thank you because I didn't even realize you were like the founder of it or somehow part of it, but it's all circling back around.

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The Lord is still gonna bring us more into that fight again in the future. That's right, that's right. And you always go at God's pace, right?

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You don't have to force. You just, as long as the heart is there and when you get onto love life and you become a house of refuge,

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God is gonna begin to show you. And another thing that we're doing, we're recruiting city catalysts, which are entrepreneurs that can fund city directors.

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So I'm telling every, Jason and I, I just got off a long Zoom call with several entrepreneurs where it's $200 ,000 a city.

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There's plenty of biblical Christians that are doing well in business that can do this. And they can hire a city director and a sidewalk counselor director that can go out and you find the darkest places.

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You begin to partner with the churches. What happens, just let me give you an example. Here in Charlotte, we have almost 300, 150 partnering churches in Charlotte.

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Out of those churches, we have 300 mentor families. So we have three abortion clinics in Charlotte.

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So when a woman chooses life, we partner her in with a church.

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That church gives her a mentor family that goes to all the prenatal visits, that plugs her into the small groups at the church.

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And then when the baby is born, that church throws a baby shower. We stopped counting after 6 ,000 moms chose life.

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We can't count the baby showers and all this. That's what it looks like.

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So just know that this is happening in cities across America. And if anybody that's listening to this, you are a person of means or you don't even have means, but you know people that do in your church, go to lovelife .org,

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sign that link on how to become a city catalyst. And one of our leaders at the national headquarters in Charlotte will follow up with you and show you how you can get, how you can fund the work of God in the most broken, darkest places in our city.

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That way your church doesn't have to fund it all. You got a lot of other entrepreneurs and business owners that can fund it.

49:32

Praise the Lord. And a lot of people from Cornerstone Church will listen to this podcast. So maybe somebody hearing this now needs to be the next leader of our

49:39

Love Life team. We really saw the enemy cut in and try to fight against the young man who was leading us before.

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And he's still walking with the Lord and he's still fighting. But man, did the enemy attack him in his life when he stepped out into the middle of that spiritual war.

49:55

Oh yeah. And he's still walking with Christ. But we need somebody else to be the new leader of that ministry. So maybe this was

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God's plan for you coming on is just to raise up that next Love Life leader. Praise God.

50:06

Imagine that young man now, he's being paid full time to be the director and he's got a board of 10 to 12 business people and entrepreneurs that love the

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Lord and that are resourcing him, praying for him and helping him in the trenches and then creating the warm transfers to the pastors that you know.

50:23

Once the network begins to build, it's very hard to take those leaders out because they have so much insulation around them.

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They've got such a support group around them. So anyway, I hope and pray that God continues to grow this thing.

50:36

Our goal everywhere there's an abortion clinic or a Planned Parenthood, we are gonna have a

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Love Life chapter and not only just a chapter, but it has a director, so a catalyst with five to 10 entrepreneurs, a director and a sidewalk counseling director in the place and the churches in that city will all become houses of refuge.

50:58

Then anytime somebody in that city finds themselves, whether it's a young woman, an older woman, whatever, in an unplanned or an unintended pregnancy, they know where to run because all these churches are talking about it, they hear about it and they know that they're gonna be safe.

51:14

Wow, that is powerful. I love it, I love it. Well, I know you're gonna run out of time,

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David, because I know you're on the road. So before you go, you gotta learn, we gotta teach you how to do our outro.

51:27

We got a little thing we do every week. So this is just practice. What we do is we go, if you see a brother down, pick him up.

51:36

And if you see a high place, tear it down. I love it. Are you ready? Can you do that?

51:41

I'm ready. All right, let's go. Three, two, one. If you see a brother down. If you see a brother down, pick him up.

51:48

Pick him up. If you see a high place. If you see a high place. Tear him down. Tear him down. I love it. Boom.