Episode 3: Missions and the Local Church Part 2

The Rural Church Podcast 2 .0. Just a couple of pastors discussing life ministry theology and the gospel from a local church perspective.

Eddie.

What's it time for?

The Rural Church Podcast.

Church Planting Requires Healthy Churches

The Rural Church Podcast episode 3. You're joining us back in Gunners Camper. We talk about the SBC the local church and missions. We have special guests Jonathan Murdoch Wesley Brown and Gunner Madewell.

Let's jump back in. Take it away Eddie.

Well, and it seems like we also have the problem of Unhealthy churches aren't going to plant healthy churches, and if we have a problem in The SBC or let's just talk greater Baptist life in general because there are a lot of Baptist churches that aren't SBC churches That still aren't healthy churches and the problem is healthy churches.

Here aren't going to plant healthy churches somewhere else and so the first thing maybe that we need to think is if we want to be usable and We want to be effective in planning healthy churches. The first thing we have to do is reform the church that we're in.

We have to see our churches become healthy churches so that we can plant healthy churches help perform Other churches and train pastors in those places. If we don't understand what the church is how are we going to plant?

So let's just let's just take the definition the simple definition of Calvin. I think it's Calvin and Knox where the Word of God's rightly preached the sacraments are rightly administered and Disciplines rightly practiced, okay.

Ed Linton stole the sermons like the Word of God's not rightly preached, you know, it's a it's a mockery, right. And They just baptized homosexuals sure.

2014 study said that the only increasing baptism Demographic in the Southern Baptist Convention. Y 'all probably know it's preschool. Yeah, yeah, so.

And then when we talk about the Lord's Supper I mean, I was at a Southern Baptist Church one time they had clowns come in and did the Lord's Supper. You know, I mean what? Yeah, and so and and then discipline rightly practiced.

You can't I mean. We have to get back and understand what the church is. Yeah. Mm-hmm. Very good. The whole organization has been a Desensitizing of what the church is so that you can have a veil over your face and think we're better together.

And do you think part of that? We're better together is we've had this Mere Christianity minimalism that is said if it's not a gospel issue Then it shouldn't it shouldn't come in the way of missions, but that's caused us to have such a low Like you said low view of the local church.

Because we'd say well these women pastors in our gospel issue or we'd say And truly it really is a gospel issue, but we've said we said if it's not a soteriological. It's not so it's not the difference in a person getting saved.

Then then it shouldn't mess up our missions. Well, it's causes have such a low view of what kind of churches Both are sending and are planting and being planted. Sure and first of all, we don't believe that.

Okay, because we don't we don't cooperate with Pato Baptist, you know, and there are people similar. Yeah, you're right. And but so what I'm saying is like it's not it's just a red herring there. They're really just trying to.

What I'm seeing in is, you know an absolute bringing in of Egalitarianism, you know, anyway, I'm trying to. I feel like we talked about that last. Keep going, but it's just the whole the whole. The whole missions.

Mindset, you know in in in in that the local church and this is from last night's message but the local church has the power that the power that raised Jesus Christ from the dead is in. The local church like what are you doing?

And I told Jonathan this earlier on our way home tonight. I was like we feel like we have. We have a need like we don't even understand how could we possibly do missions effectively as We are without the cooperative program like people don't even.

Fathom that you don't fathom. I guess I can't even.

The Local Church, Seminars, and Mission Entities

Imagine let me make two statements and I know these sound bold, but it's reality. We we don't need the seminaries. They're not necessary. Now, I'm not saying they're not beneficial. I'm saying they're not necessary.

Mm-hmm. And the reason I say they're not necessary because they're not New Testament. The local church is New Testament, right? And then number two, we don't need the mission entity. It's not necessary.

I know some people are gonna hear that and say look a guy is not going to be equipped to To pastor a church unless he has seminary and that goes back to that's a very low view of local church, right? So, I mean, I don't have all the answers.

I'm I'm not the greatest. I'm not the wisest. I'm just I pastor a very small bilingual church, but I'm a product of local church. You know, I got I learned theology and doctrine and practice from the local church and.

Gotta take something crazy gun. We'll talk about gunner since he's hadn't talked in a while. The gunner feel free to weigh in on this too, but in the Gunner does something radical. As a Sunday school teacher now, it's a little bit a little bit different this summer.

He's been doing some different things. But as a Sunday school teacher, you know what he does, you know, his curriculum is. It is the Bible. He takes the Bible and then in his I'm by the way Sunday school.

He teaches children. Ages is it fifth grade now sixth grade? Yeah fifth grade third like okay third fourth fifth grade or something this year. And and maybe there'd be some changes coming up this fall, but he just goes in there.

He opens up the Bible and he teaches I think what would y 'all come through. John and got John.

We've gone through Psalm 118. We've gone through Proverbs 1 2 3.

John took us a long time. Now. Why are you doing that with children now?

Well, one of the reasons why I do it with children well one is everybody can benefit from the Word of God, right? We don't need. We don't need stories.

Just.

Just plucked out of the Word of God because their children. We don't need To do now. It's different with small children, right? Sometimes you got to keep them occupied in that sense, but my children what we do at home is we read the Bible and then we sing a song we pray and I feel like a Child, that's fourth fifth and sixth grade or third fourth and fifth grade.

They can handle the Word of God. They can if they can listen in school and they can know English and they can figure out math. Then they're old enough to read the Bible. They're old enough to understand the Bible and I've gotten flack from.

From people that.

That.

Didn't necessarily agree with that, but I.

Think.

That a child anybody.

Needs the Word of God. I don't say like the diff. Misunderstanding the mindset of we have to have curriculum, you know.

But let's make let's make let's be clear. Faith comes by hearing him by the Word of Christ, right? Yeah.

Well gunner has his Bible open and it's close. Turn over and read 2nd Timothy 3 14 15 16. I mean sure if you're just right there.

You know even as he as Gunnar's doing that, you know I think the thing that we have to remember and we've we've you guys have kind of mentioned this a little bit already. But you know a week ago this last Sunday.

Not.

I preached from Ephesians 1.

About.

You know who's in charge of the church? Yeah, it's not a committee. It's not even the congregation. It's not the pastors.

Head of the church. It's a monarchy.

The head of the church is Christ and we ought to be seeking not the vision of the pastors Not the vision of the congregation not the vision of any subgroup within the church but we ought to want the vision of the head of the church and Whatever he wants his church to be is what we want to be and that's what he tells us in the Word of God.

Christ tells us what he wants the church to be. You got a G money.

Yeah, 2nd Timothy 3 Start in verse 14 best for you continue in what you have learned and I firmly believed Knowing from whom you learned it and now from childhood. You've been equated with the sacred writings which are able to make you wise for salvation through the faith in Christ Jesus.

All scripture is breathed out by God and Profitable for teaching for a proof for correction and for training and righteousness That the man of God may be complete.

Equipped for every good work. Yeah, so we're not so. We're not just saying Bob to go out by himself with his Bible like we're saying in the context of church and as a church is teaching and preaching The scriptures even to children that what is happening is that we're being equipped.

We're being equipped.

That's right and the Bible says sanctify me in the truth your word is truth. So do we believe that it's truth that we believe that we need it. So I think that's another aspect of it for me. Step back and look at the local church and we realize Who the local church is and then we ask the question.

How can we equip the local church so that she can be? Completing the Great Commission making disciples of the nations. We don't need another discipleship making curriculum. We need to teach our people the Bible.

Mm-hmm. You know, I was just thinking about the interview we read about Spurgeon's church today and. What's interesting? I was thinking about this later so Spurgeon would do these, you know, the people the elders that shows in church would do these interviews and.

This one interview we read today. It talked about this guy and and he wasn't so clear on the gospel. So the elder of the church said you need to grab the confession and go read about salvation. Because the confession they use the second London Confession and it teaches something on salvation so if you were ever counseling someone to be a member of the church and.

They said and you're like, I don't think to get the gospel clear. You're not going to tell them take the baptism message 2000 and go read it on salvation because. We teach our people two things in doctrine.

We teach them doctrine to protect them and to bring unity in the church, right? So those are two things first to bring unity to show what we are together on and number two to protect them from what's coming and.

And so we need to teach just like the text says the doctrines of salvation that lead to maturity and.

To grow us up, but what would you say about a pastor who was preaching through say Leviticus? What would you say absolutely preach to the video. Absolutely, it's Wes is preaching through Leviticus. Talk about that.

Wes, how's that going? How's it going to be? Because you I mean, honestly, you know Leviticus you gotta deal with some heavy stuff. There's some great things. That's obvious easy points to Christ. Then you also got to deal with like scabs and you just preach that I mean this Sunday.

We're oh, you did childbirth with a chapter 12 like that last Sunday and We're gonna do chapter 13 This Sunday, so we got a lot of we got a lot of hair turning white. We got a lot of Puss and.

Sores and all those things. Two things because I think you have any. I think you have an encouraging story about this. So tell us one how your people responding or no, tell us one why you're preaching through Leviticus.

I mean, come on, dude and into Why. How is your church responding? I think you have an encouraging story about that. Well, I'm preaching through.

Leviticus I felt led to it drawn to it. Because I want our people to understand the gospel I want it to be crystalline there's gospel in Leviticus. Oh, man First five chapters going through the sacrificial system and what each sacrifice accomplishes and What they're designed to do and what they point to which is all Christ.

It's all fulfilled in Christ and then we move on to the the priesthood and. And what they're called to in the high calling and then we're into worship and we're into that chapter 9 the high of Chapter 9 when Moses and Aaron go into the tent they come out and then God shows up and he's he's he's God is faithful to what he said, you know man rejected God and Eden and was separated from him.

And now we have God's people called out of Egypt brought to the mountain and we have holy fire. They got we got his presence right there in chapter 9, but then we moved to chapter 10. And it's not a it's not a day later.

Mm-hmm and they'd happen to buy who brings strange fire. And so we have this amazing picture of Christ we have a picture of the priesthood and a Precision and worship and I thought I was really encouraged.

I had a young father. He came he came to me. We met up and and he said I got to admit when you announced you were preaching through the book of Leviticus. I was not excited but when we're when I was preaching about the ordination service of the of the priesthood and what it communicated about what the nature of the priesthood is to be and then you know, you go to First Peter and well, we're we're a royal priesthood.

And he said I was just so convicted by the way we spend our time, you know not being And not being particular enough on what we what we watch or what, you know. All of these things and he said I really really appreciate going through this.

And so yeah, God's used it. I think We've gotten so addicted to slogans. We forgot you actually need to believe them. Mm-hmm. And so it's like we believe in the sufficiency of Scripture we believe all Scripture is God breath.

But then how many sermons have we ever heard from Leviticus? Well, yeah, you know, so anyway.

Faithfulness in a Small Church and the Unity of Doctrine

Well, I think in all this, you know exactly even that that's just a tangible example what you're doing right now I mean you're in a town how big Splummerville 800 in a town of 800 people your church. How many how many people's in your church?

60 the church of 50 60 people and you're preaching through Leviticus. I'm pretty sure I don't know if it's us, but I'm pretty sure you're not gonna get invited to any Church growth conferences on you know, but but here's the deal, but you're being faithful.

You're doing what the Word of God has said to do and you're trusting you're trusting that that God's gonna bless that and honor that and you're believing in the power and The primacy of the local church and I just want to say, you know from getting to know Jonathan I mean before the year 2022 I think maybe we'd followed each other on Twitter or something.

But like we didn't know each other right like a heart like it didn't know each other at all I've gotten to know Jonathan in this year. It's been a tremendous blessing. But Wes and Eddie I've gotten to I've known Eddie nearly 10 years.

Wes I've I've known since I guess 2018 is that when you came somewhere like that? So about four years and I just can't commit enough to if you're out there. Doing it on your own like find a way to get connected.

You know with with other like-minded brothers to help you through this because you know all this stuff. You're telling us about tonight Jonathan. This isn't just like man. I woke up with this today. You've actually gone through some Things that you did you did it wrong, you know and had to learn and yeah some hard things and some good things and so.

But we can benefit from that and then you know folks, you know, the three people Eddie's mom my mom whoever else listened to the podcast Harold Smith Can can listen to it, you know.

For us. It's been the last 15 years really. Shaping this. Yeah, you know man it really really has been a process of 15 years to bring us to where we are today and. And I'm glad I'm grateful for those hard times, you know, yeah.

You know as we've talked about all the different things we've talked about in this podcast. Kind of the thing that's standing out to me is there's not one. It's not that you need just a high view of Christ.

If you're really gonna have a high view of Christ, you're gonna have a high view of the local church. You're gonna have a high view of the scriptures you're gonna have a high view of your brothers and sisters.

You're gonna have a high view of evangelistically reaching your community. Missyologically reaching around the world. We're gonna have a high view of all these doctrinal positions, I think for too long we've had this kind of compartmentalization.

Of all these things like you could have. Your doctrine of salvation or your doctrine of God. Right. And maybe you're messed up. But really all of these things hang together with are we listening to the head of the church?

And what he has spoken to us in his revelation in the 66 books of the Old and New Testaments.

Yeah, and not to but it's a really beautiful thing. All the way back around when you try to partner with churches that are just all over the map on these things that you just said. But you're like, but they're claiming like oh, yeah.

But we got the we've only baptized believers and we got the gospel, right so we can all you know. It's like no, it's a mess. It's a mess, you know and and exhibit a is what we're we're doing now. So man, it's been long.

I know it's late. We're in a camper. The AC has been turned off and it's getting hot. What y 'all got any we'll just go around any any final things to say we'll start with. We'll start with Jonathan.

Love the church give your life to the church. There's No greater entity in the world and there's no entity in the world. That's more powerful.

So Wow, give yourself to the church. Amen. Wes.

I'd say for especially pastors struggling through what to do I do want to remind you like I was talking about earlier. This has practical implications in your own church, especially in the men and and so.

Keep that in mind as you are planning over what to do over the coming years. And secondly, I and Final answer to your question about better together. You know any any good lie Has truth in it. Mm-hmm.

I'm so I've been so blessed by getting to know pastors who?

Are faithful. Yeah.

And so in that way man, we're better together. Yeah.

Amen.

Eddie will you wake up gunner? Hey gunner gunner? Yeah any final final thoughts?

Yeah, so, I mean, I don't know how many people listen to the podcast. I'm yeah, but I'm sure there's people listening that that maybe aren't going to a church. But I would say to those people That the Bible commands you to submit to elders and.

Pastors and.

So I would just encourage that you need to be a part of a local church. You need to sit under preaching and you know more specifically you need to sit under The inerrant Word of God for your betterment.

And I would close out with just saying Jonathan it's been a pleasure to meet you today brother. Mutual brother and Wes, it's always great to see you brother. So I'm glad to have you on the podcast and hey and only the second episode of the rule church podcast reboot.

We've got gunner made well on here. So it's always a good day.

Wow.

Wow, I mean once people find out that gunner is on this podcast, this is a good exploit. We're gonna get better. We're gonna get bigger than the Patriots pastors. Hey, what's up America? Fuck yeah. All right.

Well, I don't know we've gone 53 minutes. I'm not sure if I'll turn this into one or two probably just one but thank you guys for joining us on the Rule per what is it? Church podcast 2 .0. Thank you.

See you guys next week.