Sola Scriptura: God Breathed?

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And welcome to The Dividing Line. My name is James White, and I'm glad to be with you today. You may be saying, wait a minute, it's not 1 .30

yet. Well, no, it isn't. We are on the air from 1 till 2 o 'clock now here on The Dividing Line, and that means we're going to be able to do something that we've always wanted to do, and we hope that you will participate with us, and that is we are going to be taking your phone calls at 1 -888 -TALK -960.

1 -888 -TALK -960. Yes, we're going to finish our series on Sola Scriptura today, as we have promised.

We are going to be looking at that very important subject, but we're going to be taking your phone calls later in the hour, and I would imagine that over the past number of weeks, as we have been looking at this subject, there have been some questions that have come up in your mind, and you may want to avail yourself of the opportunity of calling 1 -888 -TALK -960, grabbing a line now, and asking your questions concerning the topic of Sola Scriptura, the sufficiency of the

Scriptures to function as the sole rule of faith for the Church. And you may say, you know, a lot of things going on in our nation today, a lot of discussion of the rule of law and things like that.

Isn't that the most important topic of the day? Well, I would submit to you that the rule of faith is far more important than any man -made law.

That the rule of faith for the Church, the Church that exists, long beyond any nations that exist, long beyond any men who could put anything in writing, the rule of faith should actually be far more important to us, and I believe that the rule of faith is the

Scriptures. And we have been looking at that subject for actually a number of months now. We'll wrap up that subject today and take your phone calls at 1 -888 -TALK -960.

I have left for the last presentation probably the most important Scripture passage on this entire subject, and that, of course, is 2

Timothy 3, verses 16 through 17. Yes, I did make reference to these passages in previous programs.

I had mentioned in passing early on the importance of this passage, but we have not actually taken the time to sit down with the

Word and to look at this passage and to respond to the many individuals out there who would say that nowhere in the

Bible do we encounter the doctrine of Sola Scriptura, and that includes this great passage of 2

Timothy 3, where Paul writes to Timothy and gives him direction concerning the way that he should pursue the ministry, the way that he should be a man of God within the

Church of God. So, how then do we understand this particular passage?

Well, let's look at it, 2 Timothy 3, and any passage without a context is a pretext, so let's back up just a little bit and listen to the context that Paul uses in his charge to Timothy.

I'm going to start 2 Timothy 3, beginning at verse 10. You, however, remember that this is the last communication that Paul is going to have with his beloved son

Timothy. These are vital things. It's like if you had the opportunity to say the last important things to someone you really love before you know you're going to be leaving them, what do you say?

Well, here's what he says. You, however, know all about my teaching, my way of life, my purpose, faith, patience, love, endurance, persecutions, sufferings, what kinds of things happened to me in Antioch, Iconium, and Lystra, the persecutions

I endured, yet the Lord rescued me from all of them. In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus will be persecuted, while evil men and imposters will go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.

But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, and how from infancy you have known the

Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

All Scripture is God -breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Now notice the context in which he places these words. Timothy, difficult times are coming. Timothy, if you wish to live a godly life in Christ Jesus, you are going to experience persecution.

Timothy, evil men and imposters are going to go from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived.

Timothy, the future presents many challenges to you and your ministry and to the Church of Jesus Christ.

This is very much like what Paul does when he talks to the Ephesian elders in Acts chapter 20. He says,

I know that wolves are going to enter into the flock. They're going to rise out of your own number. They're going to come from within the

Church. And in the midst of this, this warning of difficulties to come, both in Acts chapter 20 and here in 2

Timothy chapter 3, hence this establishes the pattern of the Apostle Paul when he warns about future challenges to the

Church, to what does he commit the Church at that time? And I mentioned before that when you look at Acts chapter 20, you'd expect him to say, so follow

Peter and his successors in the Bishop of Rome. Or look for the reestablishment of the

Church in 1830 under Joseph Smith. Or do something, look to some extra biblical source of authority.

That's what everyone would tell you, he should have said. But we've already seen in Acts chapter 20, he commits them to the grace of God and to the word of God.

And here in 2 Timothy chapter 3, when he says, evil men and imposters are going to grow from worse and worse.

They're going to be deceiving and being deceived. What does he say? But as for you, the man of God, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of because you know those from whom you learned it.

Timothy, don't go chasing after all the new things. Timothy, don't be trying to come up with new ways.

The truth doesn't change. And the godly heart will not be looking for this changed truth or something that's always new.

And how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.

Now immediately, we have to recognize something. What would Paul have understood that to mean?

And what would Timothy have understood Paul to be saying? What Holy Scriptures had

Timothy known from his infancy? Well, it would not include the New Testament. It would not include

Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. He's talking, in this context, about the

Old Testament. That was the Holy Scriptures for the church. Now yes, as these books start to be written, we know that Peter refers to Paul's writings of Scripture and Paul refers to Luke's writings of Scripture and we recognize that that's the case.

However, as far as a body of writings, the New Testament was not collected yet.

How could it be? Paul's still writing a section of it. And so yes, the first thing that Timothy would have understood when he heard the words

Holy Scripture would have been the Old Testament.

And so immediately people say, well, anything else that we have here, anything else that is said in this passage can't have any relevance to our subject today, to Sola Scriptura, because it's only about the

Old Testament. How do we respond to that? Well, when

Paul says all Scripture is God -breathed, he is not making a comment about the content of the canon of Scripture.

He is not saying that the only Scripture that exists is in the Old Testament. We know that's not the case.

We know that Peter recognized that was not the case because he recognized Paul's writings of Scripture and we know that Paul cites

Luke's writings of Scripture, so that's not the issue that he's raising. The point that he's raising is he's directing the young Timothy to the source of authority, and it is

Scripture. And why is it Scripture? Because all Scripture, whether it's the Old Testament or whether it is the

New Testament, is God -breathed. You see, the man of God has to be directed to a source of authority that does not change.

The man of God must be directed to a source of truth that he can depend upon, and that is the

Scriptures, that which is God -breathed. Now, your translation may render 2

Timothy 3 .16 a little bit differently. I'm reading from the NIV, and the NIV says, specifically, all

Scripture is God -breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness.

Now, some other translations read different from that, and therefore, we have to answer the question, why does it say all

Scripture is God -breathed? Well, most of the other translations say something along the lines of inspired.

And inspired's not a bad word. Inspired isn't a bad one to deal with, but inspired, when you go back and look at the term itself and what it referred to, inspired referred to breathing into something.

When we use the term, we refer to an inspiring show or an inspiring sermon or something along those lines, and that's not what

Paul says. Paul does not view Scripture as merely men's writings that God has sort of breathed into.

He has not just taken men's writings and elevated them to a new plane. We would be missing the import of the original language if we took it from that perspective.

Instead, what we need to understand that Paul is referring to is what the original language communicates, and that is that Scripture is

God -breathed. That is, it is like the breath that comes from the mouth of God as he speaks.

It is God -speaking, God -breathed. We dare not miss what this has to mean.

You see, one of the reasons that our discussion of Sola Scriptura is probably considered rather arcane by many in our land today, out of step, maybe even backwards, is because there are so many today who no longer hold to a high view of Scripture.

They do not believe that the Scriptures are God -breathed. They do not believe that the

Scriptures are in fact the very speaking of God itself. And so for those individuals, there's really no reason to debate this issue.

There's no reason to even discuss this. The Scriptures can't function as the sole infallible rule of faith of the Church because they themselves aren't infallible.

They're just men's thinking about God. But that's not Paul's view, and as we saw when we looked at Matthew 22, that wasn't

Jesus' view either. Jesus' view was that the Scriptures are God speaking to us, and here

Paul says the same thing. They are God -breathed. All Scripture is

God -breathed. And since it is, young Timothy, God -breathed, that is why it is able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus, and that is why it is useful for four things, teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness.

Teaching, rebuking, correcting, and training in righteousness. Now what are the things the man of God doing ministry in the

Church of God needs to do? That's a good question. A lot of folks don't think about that today, but what are the things that the elder in the church, the person entrusted with bringing the

Word of God to the people, what's he supposed to be doing? Well, in our land today, we frequently try to make the pastor of the church an administrator.

His main job is personal counseling. His main job is cheerleader. His main job is business.

His main job is advertising. All the rest of that stuff, and that's not what the

Bible teaches. When we look at the duties of the elder, when we look at the situation that faces elders in the

New Testament, their primary purpose is the proclamation of the truth of God so as to build up and edify the saints in the church.

They are to lead the people in the worship of God through the public reading and exposition of the

Scriptures. And so he says to Timothy, Timothy, you're going to be involved in teaching.

You're going to be involved in training in righteousness. And yes, since the church is a place where there is going to be sin, there's going to be problems, then there is also rebuking and correcting.

Teaching and training in righteousness, they go together. Rebuking and correcting, they go together. And on what basis,

Timothy, are you to do these things? Well, he's only pointed to one basis. He's only pointed to one authority, to that which is

God -breathed, to that which comes from the very mouth of God.

And there's a wonderful truth here that if you're a minister of the gospel, I hope you hear me today.

You are not dependent upon the philosophies of men. You are not dependent upon the newest programs that men can concoct.

You are not dependent upon Madison Avenue. You are not dependent upon advertising schemes.

The man of God today still has, by God's wonderful providence, the very same source of authority that Timothy had there in Ephesus or wherever he was at that time.

And that is the scriptures which are God -breathed.

God's word has not left his church. He has not left his church without his word within her. And it is the scriptures to which she turns to hear the voice of her husband.

She is the bride. He is the bridegroom. And so you have the greatest resource available to you in that you have the

God -breathed scriptures and you can trust the Holy Spirit of God to make his word alive to his sheep.

Now, of course, that tempts me to go off into discussion of how we try to get people into the church and how we fill the church so often with those who don't want to hear the word of God and how that leads to so many of our problems.

But I will resist the temptation to preach that particular sermon today. Instead, Timothy, if you want to teach, that's doctrine.

That's where we get the very phrase for teaching and doctrine. They go together in Paul's thinking.

If you want to teach doctrine, Timothy, here's your source. You have to derive that teaching from that which is

God -breathed. If you want to train in righteousness, if you want to train the people of God as to how they are to live their lives in a way that's honoring and glorifying to him, to what source do you go,

Timothy? You go to that which is God -breathed. And when problems arise in the church,

Timothy, where do you go? Again, you go to that which is God -breathed to correct, to rebuke.

Many people like to say, well, if you believe in sola scriptura, then you don't believe. You do not believe that the church can rebuke, that the church can discipline, that the church can do anything like that.

And that simply is not the case. Because you see, the

Word of God corrects. The Word of God exposes our hearts.

When all of the Word of God is preached, verse by verse, expositionally, our hearts are laid bare before God.

When we enter into the worship service with a desire to hear the Word of the

Lord, and when the minister stands before us having done his duty in preparing that sermon on the basis of the

Word of God, then God opens our very hearts, our motives are examined, we're called to repentance, we are able to mature in Christ, we're able to see those attitudes and those actions that as we become more mature in Christ, we didn't even know that that attitude or that action was sinful in God's sight until the

Word exposes it to us. That's why in a church where you allow the

Word of God to say what the Word of God is supposed to say, a lot of people in our society aren't going to be comfortable.

A lot of people in our society are going to say, oh, boy, I want to go someplace that makes me feel good, makes me feel warm and cozy inside.

Well, that all depends on whether you want to be more like Christ or not. That all depends on whether you want the

Word to expose and to, yes, encourage, to, yes, assure you of forgiveness and salvation in Christ, but at the same time, it must also always expose to us our sin, expose to us those places where we need to change our attitudes, change our directions so that we may live in a way that is honoring and glorifying to God.

They go hand in hand. You can't have one without the other, and that's why you need to be a part of a church that believes in Sola Scriptura and applies it, lives consistently in light of it.

That's what we need to see. So, Timothy, if you want to teach, if you want to rebuke, correct, train in righteousness, you turn to that which is

God -breathed. And, Timothy, you're the man of God there in that ministry. In the church that God has placed where you are, you're a man of God.

You've been placed in a position of leadership and authority. So, Timothy, do you want to be thoroughly equipped for every good work?

Do you want to be sufficient, and that is one of the meanings of this word, sufficient for every good work that you would be called upon to perform as the man of God?

Go to that which is God -breathed. Go to the Scriptures. Now, a number of years ago,

I debated Patrick Madrid of, at that time, Catholic Answers on this subject, and in presenting this passage,

I gave an analogy. And I had just, at that time, begun taking up bicycling, one of my sports, and I used the analogy of one of the bike shops that I frequent.

It's the only bike shop I frequent, actually. And I said, you know, I can go to the bike shop, and I can get tubes for my tires, and I can get tires, and I can get my bike repaired, and I can get my clothes and my shoes and my bottles and everything that I need as a bicyclist.

It is a place that I can go that is sufficient to equip me as a bicyclist.

I don't have to go to that one and then go down the street to the next one and get a few more items, then go down the street to the next one and get a few more items.

I can go to one place and get everything I need right there. And I said, that's what the

Scriptures are like. We don't need to be referred to all sorts of other rules of faith.

We don't need someone to point us over to this tradition or that tradition to this magisterium or to that pope or to this prophet or that president or whatever it might be.

To be the man of God in the church means that I look specifically and only to that which is

God -breathed as my ultimate and final authority. Now, at the time, my opponent responded by saying, well, that doesn't make any sense because the bike store can't make you a bicyclist.

And I sort of wondered exactly what the point was. I'm not claiming that sola scriptura saves you.

That's the work of God by His Holy Spirit. God saves His people by the work of the

Spirit. I'm talking about what the rule of faith for the church is.

And the Scriptures say that since they themselves, the word of God, can equip the man of God thoroughly, sufficiently for his work as the man of God, then there's no reason for him to go down the street, so to speak, and to find some other source of authority, some other means of equipping himself for the work of God.

If he finds that need, then I would suggest he's not doing the work of God anymore. I would suggest that he has gone outside the parameters of what the man of God should be doing in the church in the first place.

Just as that bike store is sufficient to equip me for my task as a bicyclist, so the

Scriptures, since they themselves claim to be sufficient to equip me perfectly for the work of the man of God in the church, they therefore admit of no addition or subtraction.

There is no need to add traditions. There is no need to have any other sources of authority added in.

Now, the Scriptures, sufficient to do what the man of God must do, sufficient to do every good work.

Now let me ask my Roman Catholic friends to think about this question, or my

Mormon friends, or anybody else who doesn't believe in Sola Scriptura. Let me give you a challenge.

The Bible says that it is sufficient to equip the man of God for every good work. How is the

Bible sufficient to equip you to teach such doctrines as indulgences, the treasury of merits, the papacy, the doctrines of Mary, including perpetual virginity, immaculate conception, bodily assumption?

How can you claim that the Scriptures are sufficient to equip you to teach those things?

Now, you might say, well, it's not a good work to teach those things. Well, I'd be a little bit surprised if you'd say that. Obviously, if those things are true, then teaching truth is a good work.

How does the Bible equip you to perform those good works, to teach those doctrines?

Simple fact of the matter is the Bible doesn't do that. And that should, therefore, clearly indicate to us that there's a problem when you add to the

Scriptures, when you add to what they have to say. You've violated what this passage teaches, and you're no longer functioning as the man of God in the

Church. So there you have another passage, another passage from the Word of God that teaches sola scriptura.

We have one caller on the line. We have room for more. 1 -888 -TALK -960.

1 -888 -TALK -960. If you'd like to add your comments, ask a question about sola scriptura, this whole issue we've been addressing, we'll be taking your calls at 1 -888 -TALK -960.

First we're going to take a break and then come back with your comments here on The Dividing Line. Alpha and Omega Ministries presents

The Dividing Line radio broadcast. The Apostle Peter commanded all Christians to be ready to give a defense for the hope that is within us, yet to give this answer with gentleness and reverence.

The Dividing Line is brought to you by Alpha and Omega Ministries, the Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church, and Bethany House Publishers.

Your host is Dr. James White, director of Alpha and Omega Ministries and an elder at the

Phoenix Reformed Baptist Church. With today's topic, here is Dr. White. We've been looking at the subject of sola scriptura, wrapping up our series on that subject here on The Dividing Line, and today we are taking your phone calls in regards to this very important subject.

And so, without further ado, let's go to Nancy in Glendale. Nancy, nice to have you on The Dividing Line.

Nancy, are you there? You hear me?

There you are. I can hear you now. Okay. How are you today? Fine. I speak to you in love as a fellow

Christian who also believes in sola scriptura. You have established and emphasized on your program, you know, everything you did today, like it is the ultimate and final authority, and the doctrine is

God -breathed, and we don't go by traditions, philosophies. All right, now, as a

Baptist, first of all, you just listed some of the teachings of the Catholic Church?

Yes. And where do they get that? Right. Okay. As a Baptist, but yet claiming sola scriptura, to me, do you go by denominational interpretations and therefore your preconceived ideas, or the word of God?

So, to pose that question to you, Okay, let's handle that one first. Oh, yeah, that's okay.

I'm not going to dump you. Let me just answer that one. If you've got some others, we can... I'm going to show you, as a

Baptist, that you do not practice what you profess. Well, let's first address that first issue, and that is, do we not all have our own traditions?

Do we not all have our own interpretive grid? Well, in the sense that we all have our traditions, yes.

Anyone who doesn't recognize that they have traditions within their framework is simply blind to the existence of them, and I'm certainly not blind to the existence of traditions in mine.

However, if you believe in sola scriptura, then what you have to do, if you're going to be obedient to Matthew 15, and to the whole biblical teaching of authority, is test your traditions in the light of Scripture.

Right. Now, there are certain things the Scriptures do not address. For example, the Scriptures do not address exactly what the preacher is supposed to wear, or the shape of a building, or buildings, or not buildings, or the type of fabric you put on a pew, or if you don't put fabric on a pew, and all sorts of issues like that.

Those issues must be guided and understood in the light of the Spirit of God and Christian fellowship, and the

Bible doesn't determine that one way of doing that is the absolute only way you can do it, and so on and so forth.

So, we have to recognize that there are certain areas where the Word of God allows for freedom, and I think that's especially important in the light of the fact that when the

Gospel goes into different cultures, when the Gospel goes into different areas, there is a freedom within the

Gospel for the Church to live within the culture in which it is. That does not mean that there are not absolutes.

There are, and the Word of God is clear on them, but in those other areas there is freedom. We must always test whatever traditions we develop, whatever traditions we have, by the ultimate authority of Scripture.

Right, and I have four questions for you. Okay. First of all,

I will state that the Scriptures do not teach Sunday Sabbath. Jesus did not abolish the

Ten Commandments. The baptism with the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues is not taught by the Baptist Church.

So the questions are, did Jesus abolish the Ten Commandments? You have to answer that by the Word. Do you keep the seventh -day

Sabbath? You need to answer that, not denominational teaching, but what the Word says. Have you received the baptism with the

Holy Spirit with the evidence of tongues? If not, why not? Also, I believe you teach eternal security, once saved, always saved.

And the Bible says sin is the transgression of the law, and the wages of sin is death. And if we sin willfully after we receive the knowledge of the truth, there remains no more sacrifice for sin.

So I would ask you, from the Word, how do you answer these questions? Okay, number one, Jesus did not abolish

Ten Commandments. I don't know who you think actually teaches that he did. So then he didn't abolish the seventh -day Sabbath day.

Then number two, the issue of the Sabbath day has to do with what the New Testament teaches about when the

Christians gathered to worship. There's a great deal of teaching in the book of Hebrews about the Sabbath rest.

There's a great deal of discussion in regards to when the Christians came together on the

Lord's day. And so, to say, and to apply this specifically today, to the issue of...

I can tell you those have been misinterpreted. Well, okay, now there we get into the important issue.

You're accusing me of not following Sola Scriptura, but in reality what you're saying is you interpret Scripture differently than I do.

No, none of those verses give any authority to abolish one of the Ten Commandments. Well, since I haven't given a verse, then obviously that's a preemptive strike.

There are eight verses in the New Testament which give no authority to change the Sabbath to Sunday. I understand that you undoubtedly believe that, but the issue, again, is what does the

New Testament understand regarding the Sabbath and regarding the Lord's Day. Okay, now

I've just put you on mute and that's because you're not letting me finish any of my points. Okay? We obviously hear that you have a point you want to make and that you're a

Seventh -Day Sabbatarian and that you've got a particular viewpoint. That's fine. We can dialogue about that, but you're not going to keep interrupting me.

Okay? So I'm going to put you back on and so hopefully you can listen to what I'm saying. The issue is not a matter of Sola Scriptura The issue is a matter of interpretation of various passages of Scripture.

And you want to argue that the Ten Commandments, since Jesus did not abolish them, and I agree he did not abolish them.

And how many are there? I just said the Ten Commandments, that you automatically assume that that means that the

Sabbath Day and the Lord's Day have to be two different things. I would assert to you that if we were to sit down and look at the issue of what the

Lord's Day is, look at the issue of what Hebrews has to say concerning Sabbath rest and things like that, that we would come to a different understanding.

We do so, excuse me, excuse me, that's very nice. However, the resurrection of Jesus Christ can't be just the issue.

Well you say it doesn't, I say it did. So we have an impasse there that is not an issue of Sola Scriptura.

It is an issue that we go to. It is an issue that we go to. It is an issue that we go to in regards to the

Scriptures and interpretation of the Scriptures. Now, the next issue that you asked about was baptism and the issue of what you view as the baptism of the

Holy Ghost or the Holy Spirit and again, I would say that in a very, very plain fashion here, that the

Scriptures themselves clearly teach that not everyone speaks with tongues, that is, without a question, without any question what the assertion of the

Apostle Paul was, and therefore again, in the interpretation of Scripture, I would very strongly assert to you that adding that as a prerequisite of the

Gospel may very well place you into the situation of Galatians chapter 1, verses 6 through 9 if you're not careful as to what you add to the

Gospel in making it a part of the specific teaching of the New Testament and in regards to that question, my answer to you would be no,

I do not believe that that is the function of the Holy Spirit today to do that and I do not believe that anywhere in the

Scriptures is that taught as being the sign of so doing and finally, we undoubtedly will do probably an entire series on the fact that the

Scriptures are very, very plain that salvation is the work of God in Jesus Christ, that it is a perfect work, that Christ is a perfect Savior and that He does not fail to save those who are given to Him by the

Father, that in fact, in John 6, it is specifically stated that it is the will of the

Father for the Son that He lose none of those that are given to Him and I believe that Jesus Christ will always do the will of the

Father, I believe that as Almighty God, the Son has all the power to do the will of the

Father, as the perfect obedient servant, He has all the will to do the will of the Father and therefore, that He will succeed perfectly in the task that has been assigned to Him in the eternal covenant of redemption by the

Father Himself. So, we approach the doctrine of salvation recognizing that it's the work of God.

We approach it recognizing that God is the one who saves and that if man is made a part of the equation, in fact, the deciding part of the equation, that it would be impossible for the

Father to hold the Son accountable to be a perfect Savior.

John 6 would make no sense. It would make no sense for me to say to my son, uh, son, it is my will for you that you perfectly win the basketball game you're in today.

Why would that be silly? Because He's on a team. He has to be dependent upon others.

The other members of the team have to show up. They have to perform their duties and even then, they may lose.

It would be ridiculous for me to say it is my will for you to perfectly win this basketball game because it wouldn't be within His capacity to do so.

Since it is the Father's will for the Son to save every one of those that are given to the

Son and not lose any of it but raise it up on the last day, therefore, salvation must be the work of God and it must be a perfect work that cannot fail.

It is His will that we do that, yes, but we tell us to go in and we can choose to leave. That is not what John 6 says.

John 6 says that no man can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him and I will raise him up at the last day.

We're drawn. No one is able. Is everyone going to be raised up at the last day? No. All those who are drawn are raised up at the last day.

So if you say that everyone is drawn, then everyone's raised up. You simply can't make that passage say that.

The simple fact of the matter is there's two ways to look at salvation. Either it's God's work and it's done perfectly or, and then you've got the myriad of other viewpoints out there that intrude man into the process and say that man, even if it's just a small little part, even if it's just a little element of it, it becomes the important element because it decides whether salvation is or is not going to take place.

So no man is saying that salvation is going to cause us to lose our salvation. We can do anything. When a person is truly regenerated by the

Spirit of God, they are given a new nature. And did you know you just cited from the Apostle Paul? The Apostle Paul, recognizing that people would make the very objection against the

Gospel of Grace that you just did, said, what shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace might increase?

May it never be. How shall we who died to sin still live in it? There are those who do walk away and backslide and live in sin.

So what happens to them when Jesus comes tomorrow? If a person is one of Christ's sheep and has been regenerated by the power of the

Holy Spirit working in his or her life, they are given a new nature. And it will be against that nature to practice or to continue in sin.

That does not mean that they do not sin. Remember when Paul says that our sins were nailed to the cross of Calvary.

How many of our sins were in the future when that took place? That is another thing I disagree with. Past sins, yes, but we are to go and sin no more.

We are accountable if we willfully sin. So if you commit one willful sin after salvation, you are lost.

We know the truth. So how are you ever going to be saved, ma 'am? Do you love the

Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength? Absolutely, yes. Every single day, every single hour, every single moment. You never get mad at anybody when they cut you off in traffic?

I'm talking about the Ten Commandments. Ma 'am, do you love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength 24 hours a day?

You never fail at that, do you? The greatest commandment, but you never fail at it? Ma 'am, I'd submit to you that I do, and you do too, and that's why what the

Bible teaches is that the righteousness that we have that will avail before the judgment seat of a holy

God is the righteousness that is imputed to us by faith in Jesus Christ.

It is His righteousness, both the righteousness that comes from Him because He died upon the cross and He shed

His blood to atone for all of our sins, as well as the positive righteousness of His holy life.

You see, the Lord Jesus loved the Father with all His heart, soul, mind and strength 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 12 months out of the year, and He did it in my place.

And the reason that I can stand before a holy God is because of the fact that the

Lord Jesus Christ's righteousness is mine. I don't plead any righteousness before the throne of God that's my own.

No, thank God for that. Thank God for what He did. Yes, but you don't see... His word is willful sin, willful.

And if we willfully know the truth and what's right, and we will...

Some are nosy at God and say, no, I'm going to do this anyway. I'm going to go live with some other man or something. If a person...

We're talking about eternal security. Is that a valid doctrine or not? Yes, it is a valid doctrine because the fact that Jesus...

determine you're going to go against what the word says, what happens? Ma 'am, a person who is Christ's sheep will follow the voice of the shepherd.

That is His promise. But the one who doesn't, what happens to him? If they do not, then they did not know

Him in the first place. Okay? I have to take a break right now. Thank you very much. No, it's quarter till.

We need to take a break right now. Thank you very much for your phone call. I appreciate it. We are ready to take your phone calls at 1 -888 -TALK -960.

1 -888 -TALK -960. Thank you very much for being with us today.

We'll take a break. Be right back. We've got callers on the line. Let's go first to Ed in Phoenix.

Hello, Ed. Hello, Dr. White. How you doing? All right. I'm one of your fellow believers in your church.

That's right. Yes. What can we do for you today? Yes, I was listening to your program about traditions.

And isn't there a difference between blatant errors and obscure doctrines, you know?

Well, certainly. And, of course, when I was speaking, we all have our own traditions. Traditions can be of different kinds.

You can have big traditions and you can have little traditions. Little traditions would be things like how you run certain things in your church, certain ways of doing things.

But big traditions can be entire doctrines. In fact, they can end up being doctrines that determine how you look at everything else.

And so, really, I think one of the most painful things for any of us is when we are really forced, and I think it's

God's grace that forces us to do this, when we are really forced to examine our traditions, examine what we're saying, examine what we believe in the light of God's word, and sometimes we have to abandon a tradition because the word of God shows us that we have to.

And, obviously, if we're talking about little things like, you know, how you do something in your church, that should be examined in the light of whether it glorifies

God, things like that. It may not be an issue that's directly addressed in Scripture. Okay. And then, one other thing, isn't there a danger of elevating a particular doctrine to where, you know, that supersedes faith in Christ alone?

And one thing I think of is talking with an individual, the whole topic of his conversation was fasting.

You got the idea that if you were not zealously involved in fasting, you were either not saved, or you were a second -class

Christian. Well, there's always a danger in the Christian life of becoming imbalanced, and that's one of the reasons that I am so thankful for the teaching and the preaching that I've heard over the years at Phoenix Reformed is the fact that our pastor has the discipline of working through books of the

Bible, sometimes very difficult books of the Bible, and going through it verse by verse.

That forces us to have balance in what we are preaching, and hence forces the church to have balance in what is being heard from the pulpit and the practice, therefore, that we have in our lives.

So, again, the key is going back to the Word of God, going back to the Scriptures, because they are preeminently balanced.

And while the Scriptures refer to fasting, it's not something that is on every other page, whereas holiness of life, and prayer, and love of God's truth, those things that are on every page.

So we are all, I think, as human beings, we have a tendency to become imbalanced.

That's one of the reasons that we need each other in the fellowship to help each other maintain a proper balance, and we need the

Word of God which is preeminently balanced, which always calls us back to that center point. So I think that's how we avoid the problem of a lack of balance in our beliefs.

Yes, well, thank you, and keep up the good work. Okay, thanks for calling. God bless. Bye -bye. All righty, we're going to go to Jason in Mesa.

Hey. Jason, how are you today? Oh, pretty good. How are things in Mesa? Ah, they're looking pretty good,

I would say. That's always a scary question to ask about Mesa. Yeah, well, the first one kind of threw me, too.

I got this bad head cold, and I don't want to murmur. All right, so what can we do for you today,

Jason? Well, listen, I was just listening to your program, and I'm a missionary. I and my wife, we happen to be back here for two weeks, and we're heading back next

Tuesday. Where are you a missionary at? Well, right now we're missionaries down in Sinaloa, Mexico.

Okay. I mean, we have been in South America for several years, and Japan around, but most recently we're there with our family.

But you know, it's kind of funny because the woman that called in about willful sin, you know,

I was thinking about it because I was raised as a Catholic, and then

I tried hard to be an atheist for a couple years when I was going to college, and that didn't work out. It does take work to do that, doesn't it?

Oh, it takes a lot of work. And then I was, I did receive

Christ in a Assembly of God church, and they also talk about you, when you're baptized in the

Holy Spirit, you must speak in tongues, and you know, God bless all those people that are trying so hard and are so frustrated.

I've talked to so many of them on the verge of tears over that one issue because they didn't speak in tongues, therefore they must not have the

Holy Spirit, which the Bible clearly states, clearly states that if the

Heavenly Father, if He knows how to give good gifts unto His children, how much more will He give the Holy Spirit to them than ask it?

And in Acts 1 .8, it does point out that a lot of people think, well, the Holy Spirit, it's for all these neat things to play and toy around with, but actually, now

I want to tell you, I do believe in speaking in tongues and those things for myself personally, but I would say that the

Bible states that the Holy Spirit was given. He said, you shall receive power after the Holy Ghost has come upon you and you shall be witnesses unto me.

And really, that is the biggest evidence I can find in people that if they really have the Holy Spirit, they're going to be out there talking to somebody about it, a neighbor or a friend, and not necessarily stand on a street corner preaching or not necessarily being a missionary maybe like myself, but I've met a lot of people that are very frustrated and go,

I keep trying to get the Holy Spirit but I can't do it. That's not something you try to do. You just ask and you get it.

That's it. Well, and not only, I would make the assertion that Paul teaches that all Christians, if you are a

Christian, we have all received one baptism and that he refers there to the fact that the

Holy Spirit is the unifying factor, the factor that indicates when a person is truly in Christ.

The idea of a Christian, a person who loves Jesus Christ being without the Holy Spirit is simply not a biblical belief at all.

that is right. And so to make someone feel like they are a second class citizen, I would submit to anyone, and I know

I'm going directly against the majority viewpoint out there, but I would submit to anyone that the greatest evidence of the

Holy Spirit, first of all, is an evidence that takes place over time. That's right. It's not a flash in the pan one type thing.

And secondly, it shows itself in, when you talk about being a witness to me,

I think when the New Testament expands upon that, it talks about having the fruit of the

Spirit, love, joy, peace, long -suffering, goodness, gentleness, meekness, faith. It talks about having a holy life, honoring the

Lord Jesus Christ throughout one's entire life. Yeah. And I think of some work that I did as a hospital chaplain,

I think of some of the individuals that I encountered there who were dying, who were ending this life, and the testimony that they gave as Christians at the hour of death was far more powerful than any type of external display that you could ever try to cook up in regards to quote -unquote getting the

Holy Spirit. When you can lay on your deathbed and face eternity with confidence in God, that,

I think, shows the power of the Holy Spirit in a tremendous way. That's right. You know,

I wanted to say, I'm not a Baptist by the way, but in regards to salvation, she made a comment about willful sin.

You know, it also says, I think it's in the book of James, I don't have my concordance with me, and unfortunately my head's kind of clogged up right now, but it says that to him that knoweth to do good and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

And I don't know of a person on this planet that at some time or another, whether it's an evil word or an angry word or an unloving word or response, you know,

God help us, we're all guilty of that. And aren't we thankful for the power of the Holy Spirit in our lives and the love of Jesus Christ?

We're out of time today, Jason. Thank you very much for calling. I appreciate it. And I appreciate everyone who has called in today and made this edition of The Dividing Line our first hour -long call -in.

We really appreciate your participation. We'll be back again next week, and we invite you to be with us then on The Dividing Line.

Thank you. The Dividing Line is a presentation of Alpha and Omega Ministries.

You can contact us at 602 -973 -0318 or you can write us at PO Box 37106,

Phoenix, Arizona, 85069. We are easy to find on the World Wide Web at www .aomin

.org. That's www .aomin .org. You can also find a complete listing of James White's books, tapes, debates and tracks on our website.

We hope you will join us again next Saturday afternoon at 1 .30 p .m. for The Dividing Line. Ladies and gentlemen, tune in next weekend and every weekend from here on out at 1 o 'clock to hear

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