October 1, 2019 Show with Dr. Dustin Benge on “The Angelology of Jonathan Edwards”

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Live from the historic parsonage of the 19th century gospel minister George Norcross in downtown

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Carlisle, Pennsylvania, it's Iron Sharpens Iron. This is a radio platform in which pastors,

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Christian scholars, and theologians address the burning issues facing the church and the world today.

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Proverbs chapter 27 verse 17 tells us, Iron sharpens iron, so one man sharpens another.

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Matthew Henry said that in this passage, we are cautioned to take heed with whom we converse and directed to have in view in conversation, to make one another wiser and better.

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It is our hope that this goal will be accomplished over the next two hours, and we hope to hear from you, the listener, with your own questions, and now here's your host,

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Chris Arnzen. Good afternoon,

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Cumberland County, Pennsylvania, Lake City, Florida, and the rest of humanity living on the planet Earth who are listening via live streaming at ironsharpensironradio .com.

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This is Chris Arnzen, your host of Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, wishing you all a happy Tuesday on this first day of October, 2019.

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And I'm glad to start off Reformation Month with a first -time guest that I've been wanting to get on this program for quite a long time.

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His name is Dr. Dustin Benj. He's a lecturer, senior fellow, and administrative research assistant at the

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Andrew Fuller Center for Baptist Studies, visiting lecturer at Munster Bible College in Cork, Ireland, editor of Expositor Magazine, author of A Journey Toward Heaven, Sweetly Set on God, the

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Spirituality of David Brainerd, Lifting Up Our Hearts, and others.

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He's also a writer for Reformation 21, Christ Word Collective, Table Talk, the magazine of Ligonier Ministries, and Expositor Magazine.

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Today we're going to be addressing the theme of his doctoral dissertation, The Angelology of Jonathan Edwards, which eventually is intended to be in a book published for the public.

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And it's my honor and privilege to welcome you for the very first time ever to Iron Sharpens Iron Radio, Dr. Dustin Benj.

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Chris, what a tremendous privilege to be with you. Thank you for the kind welcome. Amen. And in fact,

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Dustin and I began our acquaintance with one another when I was assisting him in getting a candidacy at a church on Long Island that was looking for a pastor after their pastor had retired after many years, who is a very close friend of mine.

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That did not work out in God's providence, but I'm sure that the Lord has exactly what he intends for Dustin coming up in the near future.

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Before we even go into the subject at hand, the angelology of Jonathan Edwards, why don't you tell our listeners something about the

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Andrew Fuller Center for Baptist Studies. We've had my dear friend Dr. Michael Haken on this program.

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In fact, we just had him on recently. And he has explained this to our listeners, but there are first -time listeners probably every day to our program, so why don't you let our listeners know something about the

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Andrew Fuller Center for Baptist Studies. Of course. So, the Andrew Fuller Center for Baptist Studies was founded by director

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Dr. Michael Haken several years ago when he came to be a professor of church history,

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Baptist history, and biblical spirituality here on the campus of Southern. He has had a lifelong pursuit and desire to study the writings of Andrew Fuller.

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Among Andrew Fuller, Andrew Fuller's friends, who also were writing and pastoring churches around England during that period.

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And so he wanted to found a center on the campus of Southern Seminary that focused upon the

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Baptist history of the early English Baptists. And the center has an annual conference, bi -annually.

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We also host a couple of one -day conferences throughout the year.

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We publish booklets. We have a website where Dr. Haken's articles and interviews and podcasts are posted.

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And it's really become a hub of central thinking and conversation around Baptist history.

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Yes. Well, if anybody has any interest in doing some further investigation on the

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Andrew Fuller Center, go to andrewfullercenter .org and all that you need to know will be there.

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Well, basically now I'd like you to tell us something about what topics you'll be covering this weekend, because our guest today,

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Dustin Benj, is going to be speaking at the Reformation Conference, the annual Reformation Conference held by Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, pastored by my friend

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Josh Miller, a really wonderful and gifted brother in Christ. And I am so thrilled that he has this conference annually to bless not only the congregation there at Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, but the surrounding community as well.

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So tell us about this conference. Well, the theme of the conference is

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God is still speaking, the Bible's continued relevance, authority, and sufficiency.

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I don't know about you, Chris, but I really can't think of a better topic to discuss at the current moment in evangelicalism.

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The conference begins this Saturday, October 5th, at 1 o 'clock p .m. On Saturday, I will be delivering two talks, one on Sola Scriptura, or Scripture alone, and the other on Tota Scriptura, or all of Scripture.

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Plus, there will be a small question -and -answer session at the end of our time together on Saturday.

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The conference continues on Sunday, and in addition to preaching at Grace on the sufficiency of Scripture and the

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Christian life from a verse that we are all familiar with, 2 Timothy 3 .16,

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I will also be delivering two biographical lectures on the Swiss Reformer John Calvin, looking at his life, his pastoral ministry, his writings, and also

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Calvin's doctrine of Scripture. I'm greatly looking forward to this conference,

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Chris, and really think such a conversation on the sufficiency of Scripture is, as I've already said, desperately needed.

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So, if there are any listeners in the area that want to come out, please introduce yourself, and I look forward to seeing you on Saturday.

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Amen. And if you want to call Grace Bible Fellowship Church in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, their number is 717 -652 -5229.

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That's 717 -652 -5229. Or you can go directly to their website, gracebfc .com.

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That's gracebfc, which stands for Bible Fellowship Church, gracebfc .com, forward slash conference.

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And that will give you all the details that you need. It is interesting, there is a very leftist church, and I really don't even feel comfortable calling it a church, right here in my community, a congregation within the

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United Church of Christ, and it is certainly not a Church of Christ, but a member of the denomination that bears that name, and they have this very large sign in front of their gorgeous building.

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I don't know how many years the church building dates back, it looks like it's possibly from the early 1900s or earlier, but it's a gorgeous building, and unfortunately that's the only thing beautiful about it, is the building.

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But their sign says, God is still speaking, exclamation point, on their sign, but I am quite confident that they would not agree with the subtitle of the conference, the

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Bible's continued relevance, authority, and sufficiency. Because unfortunately, as you know, there are many apostates, those who have abandoned not only the

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Christian faith as far as what we read in the inerrant scriptures, but also the faith of their forefathers in their own denominations.

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The Congregationalists were really the Puritans who carried on the inerrancy of scripture and all of the pillars of the faith and the

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Reformation that we hold dear, and somehow along the way, tragically, the majority of congregations that bear that name,

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Congregationalists today, are not faithful not only to the Bible, but also not to their own forefathers in their denomination.

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But I hope that as many of you can attend this conference, I intend to be there for at least part of it,

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I have previous plans that I already had before I was even aware of the conference, but hopefully I'll be able to make arrangements.

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Now, the theme that we are addressing today, a very interesting theme, the angelology of Jonathan Edwards, oh actually before we get to that, you're a first -time guest, so we have a tradition on this program where we have our first -time guests give a summary of how they came to faith in Christ, the religious atmosphere, if any, of your youth, how you were raised, and what providential circumstances our

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Sovereign Lord raised up in your life that drew you to himself and saved you. Well, what a great question,

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Chris, I always enjoy talking about how the Lord transformed my life in salvation, how he called me to ministry, and how providentially

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I am currently where I am. I was born in a Christian home in a small town in southern

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Kentucky, I would assume most of your listeners have figured out I'm not from Pennsylvania or from the

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North. Well, you know, I'm still getting used to Pennsylvania accents because there is a wide spectrum of them, and to my

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Yankee ears, being a native New Yorker, some of the folks around here do sound like they're

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Southerners, so I'm not saying that Southerners would think that, but to my ears, some of them sound that way.

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Well, I just came back, actually, as a footnote from England earlier this week and had a gentleman tell me that when

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I opened my mouth, it dripped like molasses, and that's how he explained my accent.

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That's actually a wonderful way to have your accent explained. I said, that's not quite what

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I hear in the U .S. So, I grew up in a small town in southern

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Kentucky called London. My parents took my sister and I to church even before we were born,

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I like to say. We were raised in a small Southern Baptist church in the hills of eastern

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Kentucky. I was involved from a very early age in every activity of the church.

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My parents were active members. My grandparents played active roles.

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I remember my great -grandparents still sitting in that church. My extended family held offices in the church and volunteered for various ministries.

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So, I grew up in a Christian atmosphere, in a family that was

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God -fearing, in a family that loved the Lord and loved to serve the

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Lord. At the age of 12, after a sermon one Sunday evening,

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I became quite convicted of sin and my need of a Savior. I remember lying in bed that evening after service with tears streaming down my cheeks, and going and finding my parents, and them calling our pastor, and him coming to our house and explaining the gospel to me and walking me through the gospel.

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And it was at that point that I very vividly remember the Lord saving me.

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And you were how old again? I'm sorry? I was 12 years old. Wow. 12 years old. God saved me,

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I was baptized, and really, Chris, I went back to doing the things I had always done.

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I don't have one of those testimonies of a transformation from some sort of lifestyle or a later -on salvation experience.

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Not long, actually, after God saved me, I began to feel a great and intense desire to teach the

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Scripture, and that is when I announced a calling to full -time vocational gospel ministry.

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But if you want to go into that, I'm very happy to do that, but that is my salvation story, just ever so briefly.

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Yeah, just a brief interjection about that. I know we're going to be discussing this in any second now, your friendship and relationship and working relationship for the gospel with Dr.

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Stephen J. Lawson, who is one of my modern -day heroes, but knowing very well of Dr.

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Lawson's theology and a shared theology he has on most significant points with another modern -day hero of mine,

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Dr. John MacArthur, there is a thing called Lordship Salvation, and as you are fully aware, in fact, probably this is most prevalent in the

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Bible Belt, where you have people who are raised in Christian homes.

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They think that they're Christians because their parents have always told them that they were, no matter how they lived or believed, whether there was repentance evident in their life or not.

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They think they're Christians, perhaps, because they have a lineage in their ancestry of pastors.

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It could be a large number of reasons. Sometimes it's just people in certain geographic locations of the

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United States, and I'm assuming perhaps some other parts of the world. People are just assumed to be

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Christians unless they actually identify themselves as Jewish or Muslim or members of some other religion.

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But there is a false Christianity that is prevalent amongst professing believers, and there are many testimonies of people who will say,

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I was saved when I was four or when I was six or when I was ten or twelve.

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But then, after decades of rebellion against God and living in all kinds of scandalous public wickedness,

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I eventually truly came to a repentant faith and was re -established or re -committed my life to Christ.

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In reality, and I'm sure you would probably agree, being somebody under the tutelage of Dr.

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Lawson, that those years that those folks think that they were Christian, those decades of rebellion, were very likely, most likely, and nearly certainly not spent as a regenerate person.

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Yes, Chris, absolutely. In pastoral ministry in eastern

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Kentucky as well as the deep south of Mobile, Alabama, I came in contact with these individuals all the time, individuals who have a similar experience of being told they were a

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Christian or thinking they were a Christian, and then later on in life they fell under further conviction of sin, etc.

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Very thankfully, though, Chris, I never had parents who tried to convince me that I was a

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Christian because of where I grew up, because the church that I attended, our pastor was very reticent to speak against this type of theology, for which

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I'm very thankful. And so I can genuinely say that at that juncture of my life, it was very evident that I was a sinner convicted of sin and desired to repent and exercise faith in Christ, of which we know is a gift to us through which we exercise, of course, to Him for His glory.

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And so, yeah, I did not as a child think that I was a

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Christian. It was very obvious that I was not, even though I grew up in that type of atmosphere.

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You mean prior to your being 12? Yes, yes, of course. So tell us how you came to meet and know and work very closely with my modern -day hero,

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Dr. Stephen J. Lawson, who has been on this program several times. In fact, the last time

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I think he was on the program, he was still pastoring in Alabama. So it's been a while.

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If you could give Dr. Lawson a stiff jab with your elbow and his ribs to remind him that I want him to come back as a guest.

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He has been so busy, it's been very difficult for me to get him back on the show. But tell us how you came to meet him and work with him with One Passion Ministries.

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Yeah, so during my latter part of my Master of Divinity degree at Southern Seminary, God called me into a full -time pastorate in Jackson, Kentucky, First Baptist Church of Jackson, Kentucky, to be precise.

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I enjoyed that ministry. It was during that ministry that I met and married my wife.

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We developed long -time friendships from that ministry, and are very thankful to God for it.

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But after serving about four years there, I received a call just really out of the blue, if you will.

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We know, of course, it was extremely providential, but I had no understanding at that moment how

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Christ Fellowship had received even my name. I didn't know that Steve Lawson knew

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I was even alive as a human being. But I received a call from the executive pastor at Christ Fellowship Baptist Church in Mobile, Alabama, where Steve Lawson was the senior pastor.

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To make a long story short, Steve flew to Kentucky to meet with my wife and I.

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We had dinner together in Louisville. We enjoyed sweet fellowship at that point.

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That was really the first time outside of a conference venue that I had met and personally spoken with him.

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But again, to make a long story short, God called my wife and I to Mobile, and I became an associate pastor at Christ Fellowship.

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I got to know Dr. Lawson through this period, and eventually when he announced his retirement from pastoral ministry—not retirement from ministry, but retirement from pastoral ministry—I became the interim preaching pastor at Christ Fellowship and filled very, very large shoes for well over a year as we began searching for a pastor.

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Wow. Well, I'm sure that you must know of this story, but the next time

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I have Dr. Lawson on the program, God willing, I have to have him retell the story of when he was pastoring.

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And I can't remember if it was the same congregation before coming to the Doctrines of Grace, but he was pastoring a largely

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Arminian church and was nearly bodily removed from the pulpit by a deacon when he began preaching the

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Doctrines of Sovereign Grace. Do you know the story? Yeah, I do. I will let Steve tell it to you himself.

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Again, he did tell it on the program before. Oh, okay, perfect. Well, yes, I do know the story, and I know many more stories to go along with that.

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Well, I have heard wonderful—I have not yet heard you preach, and God willing, I will this weekend—but

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I have heard wonderful things about your preaching and your extraordinary gifts from the folks on Long Island who heard you during your candidacy, and there are many people who are really hoping that you would become the pastor there, but the

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Lord did give them a wonderful pastor who happens to be a friend of mine as well. Oh, great.

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Wonderful. Now we are going to enter into the subject at hand, the angelology of Jonathan Edwards, especially for the sake of our listeners who are either new believers or Christians outside of the

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Reformed tradition, or not Christians at all. Please, in a summary form, tell us about Jonathan Edwards.

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Well, I am not sure that I can do his biographical story in a summary form, but I will certainly try.

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Jonathan Edwards was born in 1703 in East Windsor, Connecticut, to Timothy and Esther Edwards.

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Timothy was a pastor. His father was a pastor, so Jonathan grew up in a pastoral home.

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His mother, Esther, was the daughter of a very highly esteemed and revered pastor in Northampton, Massachusetts, by the name of Solomon Stoddard.

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Jonathan was the fifth of 11 children and the only boy.

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Ian Murray recounts the story that he had lots of feminine company, and when they saw

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Timothy Edwards coming down the road, individuals and neighbors in the town would talk about the 60 feet of Edwards' girls, as all the

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Edwards' children were over six feet in height. Wow. Especially back then.

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Oh yeah, just it's an amazing, really amazing. There are doorways in the houses in my neighborhood, because a lot of the construction from my neighborhood in Carlisle, Pennsylvania, dates back to Civil War days and even to Revolutionary War days.

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And some of these doorways are really short and narrow, and so it must have been a very humorous sight seeing the

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Edwards girls ducking down to squeeze through doorways. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, it's an amazing story, an amazing family.

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Edwards entered Yale College around 1716, beginning to recognize during this period his sin and his need of Christ, yet another example of an individual growing up in an extremely

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Puritan environment, religious environment, preaching and church environment, who was dramatically converted.

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He talks about this sweet aroma of Christ, this new vision that he receives of all things during his conversion.

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He was called into pastoral ministry for a short time in 1722, preaching in a small

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Presbyterian church in New York City. It was around this time that he began to develop or compose what we know now as his famous resolutions, his list of directions for his life, by which he kept himself accountable in his relationship before the

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Lord. But in 1727, Edwards was ordained a minister at his grandfather's church in Northampton, and he began to assist his grandfather as Solomon Stoddard was developing later in life and began to have some hardships.

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And so Jonathan came along to assist his grandfather. In the same year, in 1727, he married

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Sarah Pierpont, and they two together would have 11 children.

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His grandfather died in 1729, leaving Edwards in charge of this extremely prestigious church in Northampton, which was commonly known as the largest church in the colony in that period.

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Literally, it's said that everyone in the town went to church. Around 1731,

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Edwards preached in Boston a sermon later published under the title,

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God Glorified in the Work of Redemption by the Greatness of Man's Dependence upon Him.

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What a beautiful title to a sermon. This was, in essence, his attack or his public attack on Arminianism, which began to make a strong plea during that period.

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In 1733, a revival began in the town in Northampton as Edwards was preaching a series of sermons on the doctrine of justification by faith alone.

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What an excellent series of sermons to begin a revival. We know this, of course, as the

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First Great Awakening. It's during this period that he wrote some of his most famous works, like A Faithful Narrative of the

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Surprising Work of God, A Divine and Supernatural Light Immediately Imparted to the

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Soul by the Spirit of God. It's also during this time, around 1741, that Edwards preached his most famous sermon, the sermon for which he is most known, and that's quite unfortunate, a sermon titled

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Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God. He also wrote a famous work called

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Religious Affections from a series of sermons that he preached from 1742 to 1743.

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Religious Affections was basically a treatise defending the work of God among the colonies during the

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First Great Awakening. Very sadly, though, Chris, due to various issues that arose in the

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Northampton Church, particularly surrounding communion and who should partake and be allowed to partake at the table of our

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Lord, Edwards was dismissed from the Northampton Church in 1750.

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Upon his dismissal, he began to do mission work and evangelistic preaching among the

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Native Americans in Stockbridge, Massachusetts, and in 1757, he was persuaded to take on the position as president of the

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College of New Jersey, which we now know as Princeton University.

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Very sadly, Edwards died on March 22, 1758, after a smallpox inoculation went wrong.

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Edwards' legacy is really a litany of sermons and treatises and books and miscellanies and all of the rest, and he has a beautiful ministry, and due to several,

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Edwards has made a comeback in the past 15 years or so, and he is spoken of quite readily in evangelical circles.

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So that's a summary of his life. I hope that covers the major signposts.

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Yes, and I have a very good friend, Pastor Ed Moore of North Shore Baptist Church in Bayside, Queens, who was raised in an

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Arminian Christian home, and he actually came to embrace the doctrines of sovereign grace while in a secular college when his secular professor, who was not even a believer, began to teach about Jonathan Edwards and his contribution to American history, just because of the very important role

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Edwards played in American history, even if you are not identifying yourself as a

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Christian, even nominal Christians and atheists recognize that Edwards did have a significant role in this country.

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So it's quite an amazing thing that hearing this person teach about Edwards and what he believes, my friend, was led by the

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Lord to the doctrines of sovereign grace. Wow, what an amazing testimony. As a young high school student,

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I remember in our English literature class having to read the sermon,

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Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God. At that moment, I had not been acquainted with Edwards, so this was my first access to Edwards and his writings, but as I began to be a student of Edwards, I began to recognize that this type of sermon was not typical of Edwards.

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I think we have this caricature in our mind of this harsh, puritanical man standing, reading this hellfire and brimstone sermon.

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Now, do I think we need more sermons like that today? I would say a hearty amen to that, but this is not characteristic of Edwards' preaching.

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I would encourage your listeners to perhaps pick up his great sermon series, Charity and Its Fruits, an exposition that he did on 1

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Corinthians 13, Love, and what a beautiful sermon series that is.

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Amen. Yes, the preaching of the whole counsel of God is very important, so those in the audience or those who are in the pews of where a gospel minister is preaching, if they are consistent in attendance at any given church, if it is a biblically faithful church, there are times when those congregants or those listeners should be lifting up their hands and just praise and rejoicing and filled with joy, but there are also times,

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I think, when they should be breaking out in a sweat and be examining their souls to see if they are truly among the elect, and they should be struck with fear at times.

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And, of course, those who are not regenerate should always be struck with fear by what is being said from the pulpit until they come to genuine faith and repentance in Christ.

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So, we thank Edwards for not only the sinners in the hands of an angry God, but all the other messages and writings that he has left in his legacy.

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We are going to our first break right now. If anybody would like to join us on the air the question of your own regarding Jonathan Edwards, regarding angelology, regarding angels in general, our email address is chrisornsen at gmail .com.

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C -H -R -I -S -A -R -N -Z -E -N at gmail .com. And please, as always, give us your first name, your city and state, and your country of residence if you live outside the

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USA. Only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter. Don't go away.

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God willing, we'll be right back with Dustin Benj and the angelology of Jonathan Edwards right after these messages.

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Last year he's been there, I think every year. It's great to see him there. You and I actually did some recordings in the lobby at that place, which is a highlight.

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So, tons of stuff going on, tons of great speakers, and no matter where you are in the building, you will hear Chris Arnzen's laugh.

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And that's worth the price of admission alone. If you would like to join Phil, me, Chris, and a cavalcade of great preachers, so it should be a cavalcade of great preachers, and me, g3conference .com,

35:05

g3conference .com. And now there's even more exciting news. John MacArthur himself is now also on the lineup at the

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G3 Conference, Thursday, January 16th through Saturday, January 18th, 2020.

35:20

Go to g3conference .com, g3conference .com. See you there! James White of Alpha and Omega Ministries and the

35:27

Dividing Line webcast here. Although God has brought me all over the globe for many years to teach, preach, and debate at numerous venues, some of my very fondest memories are from those precious times of fellowship with Pastor Rich Jensen and the

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Brethren at Hope Reform Baptist Church, now located at their new beautiful facilities in Corham, Long Island, New York.

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I've had the privilege of opening God's Word from their pulpit on many occasions, have led youth retreats for them, and have always been thrilled to see their members filling many seats at my

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New York debates. I do not hesitate to highly recommend Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham, Long Island to anyone who wants to be accurately taught, discipled, and edified by the

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Holy Scriptures, and to be surrounded by truly loving and caring brothers and sisters in Christ.

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I also want to congratulate Hope Reform Baptist Church of Corham for their recent appointment of Pastor Rich Jensen's co -elder,

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Pastor Christopher McDowell. For more information on Hope Reform Baptist Church, go to hopereformedli .net.

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That's hopereformedli .net, or call 631 -696 -5711.

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S's in the middle. I hope to hear from you soon. God bless you. of fine christian organizations to remain on the air like the historical bible society the historical bible society maintains a collection of christian books manuscripts and bibles of historical significance spanning nearly a thousand years the mission of hbs is the preservation and public display of ancient scripture dissemination of scripture to provide tools equipping believers and christian apologetics with evidence for the bible's reliability and to introduce reformation literature and christian art to a broader audience since 2004 hbs has toured schools and churches throughout the northeast united states reaching thousands of believers and non -believers alike who are hungry for knowledge of the bible hbs's founder daniel p buttafuoco attorney at law is committed to sharing this collection along with an inspirational historical message that will captivate you and your church come journey through their website historicalbiblesociety .org

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the collection includes a complete 11th century bible an actual page of the gutenberg bible from 1455 the first book ever printed the geneva bible the 1611 king james bible and much much more visit historicalbiblesociety .org

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today thank you daniel p buttafuoco attorney at law for your faithful support of iron sharpens iron radio charles haddon spurgeon once said give yourself unto reading the man who never reads will never be read he who never quotes will never be quoted he will not use the thoughts of other men's brains proves he has no brains of his own you need to read solid ground christian books is a publisher and book distributor who takes these words of the prince of preachers to heart the mission of solid ground christian books is to bring back treasures of the past to minister to christians in the present and future and to publish new titles that address burning issues in the church and the world since it's beginning in 2001 solid ground has been committed to publish god -centered christ exalting books for all ages we invite you to go treasure hunting at solid -ground -books .com

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that's solid -ground -books .com and see what priceless literary gems from the past or present you can unearth from solid ground solid ground christian books is honored to be a weekly sponsor of iron sharpens iron radio and don't forget folks every time you purchase a book from solid ground christian books you are helping iron sharpens iron radio to remain on the air because solid ground christian books is a primary sponsor of this broadcast in fact they've tripled their advertising budget uh with this program since they first began advertising with us uh they did that not only because of the love of this program that they have but also because they are getting such great results from you the listeners who keep buying books from them so please keep it up folks and those of you who have not yet purchased books from them please go to solid -ground -books .com

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solid -ground -books .com and order as many books as you can afford for gift giving to edify yourself uh to restock your library with the finest in christian literature and for any other reason one would buy christian literature at solid -ground -books .com

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and always member remember to mention that you heard about them from chris arnzen on iron sharpens iron radio that's solid -ground -books .com

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we are now back with our guest dustin benj we are discussing the angelology of jonathan edwards and if you could dustin tell us what was so compelling about the angelology of jonathan edwards that you chose this as the very theme of your doctoral dissertation well thanks again chris for inviting me to come on edwards is a phenomenal figure in american history but also christianity and the impact that he has on numerous levels for our current evangelical thought and thinking is far beyond what we could ever really express among edwards many writings among all of his treatises and books there are numerous what are called the miscellanies these are a collection of musings meditations if you will or the private thoughts of edwards early on as a boy edwards wrote in a journal or a diary his daily activities etc but later on he abandoned this work and decided instead to pick up uh the exercise of writing down his thoughts and meditations upon theology and scripture and nature and science in what he has called the miscellanies and while a master of divinity student at southern seminary i began to read through the miscellanies using them as devotional material uh they're short little excerpts some there are a few i will say that are almost the length of a small book but most are just very quick short paragraphs that give his thoughts and meditations on a particular area of scripture or theology again and again as i was reading through the miscellanies i encountered the subject of angels holy angels fallen angels heaven the realms of heaven the celestial beings of heaven demons lucifer etc and so the miscellanies were full of edwards thoughts on angels now angels have always fascinated me to be honest i don't really know why growing up in the 80s and 90s i was made subject to the the television program that really brought angels to the mainstream of american culture called touched by an angel do you remember that program chris unfortunately yes unfortunately for me as well however it could not be ignored for what it did for putting angels in the mainstream and how i was under the conviction that we as a reformed evangelical community remained silent in trying to correct many of the mistaken theological musings of that show and what took place in american culture because of that show um i think we failed in that regard somehow through the years i'm not quite sure when it happened it seems at the turn of the 20th century the reformed community though rich in a history of writings and sermons on the angelic hosts began to abandon that topic why again i'm not quite sure so as i read edwards the thought occurred to me why does he have this preoccupation with the angelic and then another question do others in the reformed tradition have this same preoccupation and so when i began to start on doctoral work at southern seminary i thought there was really no better topic than to take this up and my dissertation morphed really into a survey of angelology throughout church history with a particular emphasis upon jonathan edwards so i looked throughout my dissertation i found out that augustine thomas aquinas martin luther uh thomas goodwin cotton maither in so many others chris have written extensively on this particular subject in fact i really found that the whole reformed tradition was full of writings sermons and treatises on angels so what edwards wrote fascinated me and i wanted to explore it further great and by the way it may interest you to know that back in the 1990s i don't know how old you were back then but uh back in the 1990s i actually wrote the foreword to a book titled angels and demons that was written by a christian author named victor knowles it is no longer in print but he did do a a second edition that only dealt with the angelic aspect of that subject which to me the whole subject including the demons was incredibly fascinating but his later version was heavenly hosts a panoramic a panoramic study of angels well i don't know if that's in print either but you could get used copies on amazon i know that but um we have a listener a first -time listener in mechanicsburg pennsylvania who has written a question her name is carla and her question is what role do you feel that angels play in our world today and i think correct me if i'm wrong uh dustin but being a uh disciple if you will or uh having uh steven j lawson as a mentor might be a way a better way of putting it i have a feeling that you might correct carla's phrasing by saying what role do you think angels play or believe angels play in our world today and not feel yeah well i think it's necessary chris that we look of course at scripture uh i think everyone would probably in the christian community have a theology of angels whether they know it or not just like rc sproll convinced us that we all have certain theologies um but in regard to the role or the proper understanding of their role that's beneficial in the christian life i think first and i i probably will answer that later on carla so if you could just kind of stay tuned i think it's necessary first to lay a proper biblical foundation on the angelic so would that be okay chris if i kind of launched into that that is completely okay okay so yeah and uh we have before we go to the midway break we have about three minutes so if you want to start on that uh that would be fine yeah sure so to say there's a lot of misunderstanding about angels is an understatement but for a proper understanding as i've already said we have to go to scripture and when closely examined the scripture is replete with hundreds of references to angels from for instance the cherubim who guarded the garden in eden in genesis 3 all the way to the angel who revealed so much to the apostle john in revelation 22 it's unmistakable that the host of heaven dominates or is a dominant theme within scripture the hebrew word for angel occurs around 213 times in the old testament while the greek word for angel occurs 176 times throughout the new testament often being translated messenger one cent or envoy or ambassador when referencing of course the function and the mission of the angelic host and so the bible covering about 2 100 years beginning with abraham in genesis 18 and continuing all the way to john's prophetic visions and revelation records for us certain specific historical encounters with angels in fact we're going to have to have you pick up where you left off because we have to go to our midway break right now if anybody would like to join us on the air with a question of your own send it in to chris arnson at gmail .com

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chris arnzen at gmail .com and always remember to give us at least your first name your city and state and your country of residence if you live outside the usa only remain anonymous if your question involves a personal and private matter this is our longer than normal break because grace life radio 90 .1

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fm in lake city florida requires of us this longer break because they air their own public service announcements during this break to localize iron sharpens iron radio to lake city florida which is a requirement of the fcc so please be patient with us as we take this longer break but also please use this time wisely write down the information provided by our advertisers so that you can more frequently and successfully patronize them because remember we rely upon our advertisers to exist because we could not do this program without the financial support they provide through advertising with us but also write down questions for dustin benge and send them to chris arnzen at gmail .com

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chris arnzen at gmail .com don't go away we'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors chris arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio announcing a new website with an exciting offer from world magazine by trusted source for news from a christian perspective try world now at no charge for 90 days by going to get world now .com

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forward slash podcast james white of alvin and megan ministries here if you've watched my dividing line webcast often enough you know i have a great love for getting bibles and other documents vital to my ministry rebound to preserve and ensure their longevity and besides that they feel so good i'm so delighted i discovered post tenebrous lux bible rebinding no radio ad will be long enough to sing their praises sufficiently but i'll give it a shot jeffrey rice of post tenebrous lux is a remarkably gifted craftsman and artisan all his work is done by hand from the cutting to the pleating of corners to the perimeter stitching jeffrey uses the finest and buttery soft imported leathers in a wide variety of gorgeous colors like the turquoise goat skin tanned in italy used for my nestle allen 28th edition with a navy blue goat skin inside liner and the electric blue goat skin from a french tannery used to rebind a reformation study bible i used as a gift the silver gilding he added on the page edges has a stunning mirror finish resembling highly polished chrome jeffrey will customize your rebinding to your specifications and even emboss your logo into the leather making whatever he rebinds a one -of -a -kind work of art for more details on post tenebrous lux bible rebinding go to ptl bible rebinding .com

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that's ptl bible rebinding .com when iron sharpens iron radio first launched in 2005 the publishers of the new american standard bible were among my very first sponsors it gives me joy knowing that many scholars and pastors in the iron sharpens iron radio audience have been sticking with or switching to the nasb i'm pastor nate pickowitz of harvest bible church in gilminton ironworks new hampshire and the nasb is my bible of choice i am pastor rich chenson of hope reform baptist church in quorum new york and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor sule prince of oakwood wesleyan church in toronto ontario canada and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor john samson of king's church in peoria arizona and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor chuck volo of new life community church in kingsville maryland and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor steve herford of eastport baptist church in jacksonville florida and the nasb is my bible of choice i'm pastor roy owens jr of the church and friendship in hockley texas and the nasb is my bible of choice here's a great way for your church to help keep iron trump and zion radio on the air pastors are your pew bibles tattered and falling apart consider restocking your pews with the nasb and tell the publishers you heard about them from chris arnzen on iron trump and zion radio go to nasbible .com

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that's nasbible .com to place your order i'm dr tony costa professor of apologetics and islam at toronto baptist seminary i'm thrilled to introduce to you a church where i've been invited to speak and have grown to love hope reform baptist church in quorum long island new york pastored by rich janson and christopher mcdowell it's such a joy to witness and experience fellowship with people of god like the dear saints at hope reform baptist church in quorum who have an intensely passionate desire to continue digging deeper and deeper into the unfathomable riches of christ in his holy word and to enthusiastically proclaim christ jesus the king and his doctrines of sovereign grace in suffolk county long island and beyond i hope you also have the privilege of discovering this precious congregation and receive the blessing of being showered by their love as i have for more information on hope reform baptist church go to hope reform li .net

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that's hope reformed li .net or call 631 -696 -5711 that's 631 -696 -5711 tell the folks at hope reform baptist church of quorum long island new york that you heard about them from tony costa on iron sharpens iron one sure way all iron sharpens iron radio listeners can help keep my show on the air is to support my advertisers i know you all use batteries every day so i'm urging you all from now on to exclusively use battery depot .com

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that's battery depot .com i'm so grateful to our sovereign god that while manning an exhibitor's booth for iron sharpens iron at a major bible conference i providentially met pastor andrew smith of christ reformed community church just south of jacksonville florida right off i -95 in st john's county andrew is certainly the kind of pastor that is a perfect match for my radio show and has already proven to be an ideal guest christ reformed community church shares my conviction that god is both creator and sustainer of the universe he rules and reigns providentially over our lives he directs not only the historical events of the world but also the personal events of individuals i agree with christ reformed community church that the very purpose of the church is to make disciples that we are tasked with the responsibility to evangelize locally nationally and globally and that we are to equip the saints for the work of service unlike the man -centered seeker sensitive movement they do not gauge the success of biblical discipleship by how many people are in a church but by the faithful ministry of god's word and gospel for more details on christ reformed community church visit christ reformed cc .com

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that's christ reformed cc .com or call 904 -955 -9881 that's 904 -955 -9881 tell pastor andrew that you heard about them on iron sharpens iron radio i'm pastor andrew smith and i'd like to urge you to consider joining christ reformed community church of st john's florida in financially supporting iron sharpens iron radio i'm james white of alpha and omega ministries and my friend chris arnson and i are excited to be attending another g3 conference together in atlanta georgia thursday january 16th through saturday january 18th on a theme that is vitally important to all of us worship matters i'll be on the speaking lineup with eric thomas joel beecke paul washer steve lawson phil johnson tom askell bode balkan and the world -renowned preacher teacher and author john mccarthur a fascinating new addition to the roster is kosti hymn nephew of the notorious false teacher benny hymn kosti has repented of the word faith heresies of his youth and is now a reformed baptist pastor and cessationist in california come join me and chris arnson at g3 2020 january 16th through the 18th in atlanta by registering at g3 conference .com

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that's g3 conference .com see you there as host of iron sharpens iron radio i frequently get requests from listeners for church recommendations a church i've been strongly recommending as far back as the 1980s is grace covenant baptist church in flemington new jersey pastored by alan dunn grace covenant baptist church believes it's god's prerogative to determine how he shall be worshiped and how he shall be represented in the world they believe churches need to turn to the bible to discover what to include in worship and how to worship god in spirit and truth grace covenant baptist church endeavors to maintain a god -centered focus reading preaching and hearing the word of god singing psalms hymns and spiritual songs baptism and communion are the scriptural elements of their corporate worship performed with faith joy and sobriety discover more about grace covenant baptist church in flemington new jersey at gcbcnj .squarespace

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.com that's gcbcnj .squarespace .com

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or call them at 908 -996 -7654 that's 908 -996 -7654 tell pastor dunn that you heard about grace covenant baptist church on iron sharpens iron radio hi i'm buzz taylor frequent co -host with chris arnzen on iron sharpens iron radio i would like to introduce you to my good friends todd and patty jennings at cvbbs which stands for cumberland valley bible book service todd and patty specialize in supplying reformed and puritan books and bibles at discount prices that make them affordable to everyone since 1987 the family -owned and operated book service has sought to bring you the best available christian books and bibles at the best possible prices unlike other book sites they make no effort to provide every book that is available because frankly much of what is being printed is not worth your time that means you can get to the good stuff faster it also means that you don't have to worry about being assaulted by the pornographic heretical and otherwise faith insulting material promoted by the secular book vendors their website is cvbbs .com

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browse the pages at ease shop at your leisure and purchase with confidence as todd and patty work in service to you the church and to christ that's cumberland valley bible book service at cvbbs .com

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that's cvbbs .com let todd and patty know that you heard about them on iron sharpens iron radio chris arnzen host of iron sharpens iron radio here i want to tell you about a man i have personally known for many years his name is dan buttafuco dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer but not the type that typically comes to mind dan cares about people and is a theologian himself recently he wrote a book titled consider the evidence for the bible ravi zacharias wrote the forward dan also has a master's degree in theology dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states he represents many christians in serious injury matters all over the country dan is an exceptional trial lawyer he wrote the test for the national board of trial advocacy and currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for one million dollars or more and in approximately 10 different states in illinois his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history in new york his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the law journal if you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state i recommend that you call dan consultations are free there is no fee unless you win dan buttafuco's number is one eight hundred six six nine four eight seven eight one eight hundred six six nine four eight seven eight or email me for dan's contact information at chris arnzen at gmail .com

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that's chris arnzen at gmail .com welcome back this is chris arnzen and before we return to our guest dr dustin binge on our theme the angelology of jonathan edwards we just have a few very important announcements to make the first of which we've already mentioned earlier dustin binge is actually the guest speaker this weekend to discuss or to proclaim the theme god is still speaking the bible's continued relevance authority and sufficiency at grace bible fellowship church in harrisburg pennsylvania that's this weekend october 5th through the 6th and if you want more details on this conference the phone number is 717 -652 -5229 717 -652 -5229 or you can go to the website of grace bible fellowship church in harrisburg pennsylvania which is grace bfc standing for bible fellowship church gracebfc .com

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forward slash conference gracebfc .com forward slash conference and i hope to be there for at least some of that conference i hope to actually be there for all of it but i can't guarantee that but i look forward to meeting anybody in our iron sharpens iron radio audience who may show up and then uh after that uh in fact coming up in december during the christmas season i am going to be at the best place on the planet earth to spend at least a part of the christmas season and that's new york city thursday and friday december 19th and 20th that is where the foundations conference is being held the foundations conference which is a conference orchestrated and hosted by sermon audio and they always have a phenomenal lineup of speakers at the foundations conference because of the fact that it is a small venue a relatively small venue uh where uh they can seat only about 200 people or less uh this is being restricted or should i say the attendees are being restricted to men in ministry leadership only so if you are a man in ministry leadership i hope that you register and join me there this december the speakers include a friend of our guest today dr stephen j lawson and also paul washer reverend jeff thomas oh boy reverend jeff thomas uh i can't wait to have him back on the program which is coming up soon uh he's got a couple of new books out that i'm going to be interviewing him on and he wrote an absolutely extraordinary uh endorsement for iron sharpens iron radio uh so did dr lawson as a matter of fact uh reverend armand tomassian who is an unknown name or should i say relatively unknown name but i believe he's going to be a household name amongst reformed christians over the next decade he's a young pastor but he has the power and gifts that are going to put him on the map amongst people who truly love god's word and love to hear it preached in an undiluted format and uh he when i hear armand preach i feel like i am sitting in the church of a puritan and of course i believe armand is a modern -day puritan but uh he is just remarkable richard colwell jr and andrew quigley are also on the roster i have not yet heard either of them preach but if sermon audio selected them for this conference i'm sure they must be magnificent because sermon audio is very particular about who they would have represent them at a conference if you would like to join me there in new york city during the christmas season the best place on the planet earth to spend at least part of the christmas season on december 19th and 20th thursday and friday go to the foundations conference .com

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the foundations conference .com then in january uh as you have heard already uh i am going to be packing up my bags and heading down south to atlanta georgia more specifically college park georgia a suburb of atlanta from thursday january 16th through saturday january 18th at the georgia international convention center that's where they are holding the next g3 2020 g3 which stands for gospel grace and glory is a magnificent conference there is no exaggeration there it has the largest and most spectacular uh roster of speakers i've ever seen at any conference uh the theme this january is worship matters and the speakers include the aforementioned dr stephen j lawson my friend dr james r white of alpha omega ministries my friend todd freal of wretched tv and wretched radio phil johnson the executive director of the media ministry of john macarthur grace to you uh dr tom askell the executive director of founders ministries he's been a friend of mine for many years going back to the 1990s uh founders ministries is the calvinistic ministry within the southern baptist convention uh derek thomas a world -renowned presbyterian author pastor conference speaker uh and many more and as you heard the most recent addition to the lineup there at the g3 conference is dr john macarthur himself of grace to you ministries and grace community church in sun valley california if it was only him i would make the trip to atlanta to hear him preach and be there in the same room as he's preaching i've never before met dr macarthur face to face i've interviewed him on the show and he wrote a really glowing commendation for the show but i've never met him face to face if you want to join me january 16th through the 18th 2020 at the g3 conference go to g3 conference .com

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g3 conference .com and i would strongly urge you if you have a business a parachurch organization a special event that you are hosting or anything else that you want to promote to the body of christ to thousands of people i strongly urge you not only to register as an attendee but register for an exhibitor's booth and that you should do quickly because they're likely far more likely to run out of room for an exhibitor's booth than they will for attendance so go to g3 conference .com

01:15:48

g3 conference .com register to attend and also if it applies to you register for an exhibitor's booth just like i will be manning as i have for the last three years in a row and this will be my fourth year manning an exhibitor's booth at four iron sharpens iron radio at the g3 conference something always extraordinary happens when i man an exhibitor's booth at the g3 conference and i'm so delighted that once again my webmaster eric nielsen his wife and at least one of his daughters will be there in attendance with me helping to run the exhibitor's booth remember to go to g3 conference .com

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g3 conference .com and mention chris arnzen of iron sharpens iron radio last but not least if you love this show you don't want this show to disappear you love the fact that we interview people and we cover topics that sometimes are never heard anywhere else you love the fact that we have free downloadable mp3s that you could share with everyone you know well please if you really do love the show and you don't want us to go away go to iron sharpens iron radio .com

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click support then click click to donate now you can donate instantly with a debit or credit card by doing that we are in urgent need of your donations uh we are just barely getting by for the month of october in fact we we don't even have all of our bills paid for october please help us out if you love the show and of course i always remind you of this caveat never siphon money away from your regular giving to your local church in order to give to iron sharpens iron radio never do that never put your family in financial jeopardy to give to iron sharpens iron radio those two things are commands of god providing for your church and your family providing for my radio show is obviously not a command of god but if you are financially blessed above and beyond your ability to obey those two commands you have extra money just sitting around collecting interest you have extra money for recreational purposes for coffee and ice cream and candy please use some of that money that's expendable please use some of it to donate to us if you love the show because we are really in a financially frightening position right now please help us to stick around go to iron sharpens iron radio .com

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click support then click click to donate now and if you want to send in a check via snail mail the old -fashioned way there's an address that appears on the screen when you click support at iron sharpens iron radio where you can send in a check made payable to iron sharpens iron radio uh also if you want to advertise with us send me an email to chrisorenson at gmail .com

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and put advertising in the subject line as long as whatever it is you're promoting is compatible with what i believe i will help you launch an ad campaign immediately because we are in urgent need of your advertising dollars you don't have to believe identically with me but you need to be promoting something that's at least compatible with what we believe here on iron sharpens iron radio if you are not a member of a local bible believing church and you're not even prayerfully looking for one you're living in rebellion against god please rectify that situation if you need help funding a church i might be able to help you i have helped people from all over the world find churches where they have joined or where they have visited when they're on vacation or where they have recommended their family friends and loved ones to attend so please send me an email to chris arenson at gmail .com

01:19:08

chris arenson at gmail .com and put i need a church in the subject line and that's also the email address where you could send in a question for dustin benj on our subject today which is the angelology of jonathan edwards that's chris arnson at gmail .com

01:19:22

remember to always give us your first name at least your city and state of residence and your country of residence if you live outside the usa only remain anonymous if your question is personal and private before i go to any listener questions dustin you had not yet completed what you were discussing i believe you were discussing what our inerrant word from god contains about angels and so on yes chris well desiring of course to found a theology of angels on the scripture as edwards himself does all of these um things that i'm discussing at the moment drawing out of scripture in regard to angelology edwards adheres to edwards writes about in his miscellaneous um i would also let your listeners know that through the jonathan edwards center at yale university all of edwards writings are searchable downloadable and free it's an amazing resource so i would encourage everyone to take advantage of that resource yes one of my other modern day heroes who's now in heaven dr john gersner really loved what yale was preserving in regard to edwards and it's quite amazing knowing of the liberal agenda of yale that there's still a remnant there who care about the authenticity of what edwards taught and believed indeed well uh going back to laying a proper biblical foundation for angels i would just simply say that the scripture is replete with references to the angelic just beautiful texts that talk about them being messengers ambassadors for god worshiping god and aiding humanity now let's go back just for a moment and think about their creation angels have not always existed numerous biblical passages affirm that god in the beginning created all the angels during the creation week job alludes to uh the angelic choirs filling the heavens with praise to god at the event of creation in job 38 when he discusses the morning stars sang together and the sons of god shouted for joy so in their eternality the triune god are the only three that are fully eternal the angels as well as humans and all of the universe have a specific moment in time in which god created them now scripture never indicates their exact number that is how many angels were created but we have phrases like ten thousand of holy ones or the chariots of god are twice ten thousand thousands upon thousands for instance in hebrews 12 when believers enter the presence of god in worship we enter in the presence of innumerable angels so regardless of their population we can be certain that god created the necessary number of angels to carry out his will and purpose and to render appropriate praise to their creator it's also important to remember that angels are not humans you do not become an angel when you die when the bible asserts the creation of angels by god it also insists that they do not exist in the same way in which human beings do for instance unlike humans god created the angels to neither procreate angels neither die they will exist forever the author of hebrews proposes that all angels are spirits so unless god sanctions them to take upon flesh angels exist as spirits not as human beings do throughout the scripture we also can talk about the immense power of angels the psalmist identifies them as mighty ones ephesians one a passage we're all familiar with in the writings of paul talk about them as powers or in colossians as authorities if you want to really have a picture a proper biblical picture of the power of angels read the book of revelation where angels exercise power over nature where angels will finally evict satan and his angels permanently from heaven where an angel will bind and incarcerate satan and so the angels have immense power now finally what are their purpose what's the ultimate purpose of the angels well preeminently chris the purpose of the angels is worship worship of the triune god we see in scripture angels worshiping god around the throne we see angels worshiping christ at his birth and his resurrection they were created for worship the writer of hebrews says in hebrews 114 that they are ministering spirits well how do they minister to the saints is not revealed in detail in scripture but we do know for example that in scripture that angels assist in carrying out the plan of god in the world and among the lives of human beings now i would give a footnote here and just simply say to all of the listeners who are listening the worship of angels was one of the false doctrines being taught at colossi you are not to worship angels amen roman catholicism and and various other religions take upon the veneration of angels praying to angels worshiping angels i think perhaps the best verse to instruct us on this is what the angel says to john when he kneels down at the angel's feet and says john you cannot do that i am a fellow servant of yours worship god amen and so angels have not always existed they're innumerable in host they're not humans they don't exist in the same way they have immense power and their ultimate purpose is to worship the triune god now uh in addition to what you just mentioned about their ultimate person purpose being to worship the triune god carla as you may recall in mechanics wants to know what their role is today angels now i'm assuming that she meant in relationship to us yes yes um as i've said angels should never be worshipped or venerated or prayed to in fact we are never told in scripture as christians to seek angels or to even talk to angels but it's very clear that they have a role in the life of all believers now the swiss reformer john calvin said that belief that we have guardian angels quote does not rest on solid ground end quote so i hate to disappoint all your listeners perhaps many of your listeners but we do not have individual guardian angels scripture does not speak to that particular fact calvin then says something quite interesting he says let us rest satisfied withholding that the care of the whole church is committed to angels so it's not that believers have one particular guardian angel that is over us my goodness chris scripture alludes to the fact that we have the whole angelic host that is watching over us hebrews 114 as i've already quoted clearly states that angels have been sent by god to minister for the sake of the people of christ now of course hebrews 1 the argument is being made that christ is infinitely greater than the angels amen to that but this text is very specific and it doesn't say they minister individually to christians but that they minister for the sake of christians so this means that everywhere in the world chris whatever angels are doing is for the good of christians angels remind us that we are created beings angels remind us that we are created to worship the living god angels remind us that we are to serve others angels remind us of the preeminence of christ angels remind us of the danger and consequences of sin in the fall of lucifer and many of the angelic host angels remind us of our eternal destiny in christ and angels remind us of our heavenly purpose so if i could speak individually to a believer what role do angels play in your life i would simply say they are present for the purpose of god around the world doing your good do not look to angels but look to christ amen we have a listener in cork ireland who is actually uh a student of yours mary in cork ireland mary wants to know how did jonathan edwards exegete 13 verse 2 where we read do not neglect to show hospitality to strangers for by this some have entertained angels without knowing it is this a reference to the manifestation of angels visibly to us here on earth or are these angels messengers of the gospel who are human i wonder how we could take the latter interpretation because we would know it if they were messengers bringing us the gospel and they were human because they would be telling us things of christ so please explain this yeah chris um you know thinking about edwards and what he said on that particular subject hello to mary by the way um she is a dear lady a dear student of mine in cork um we've had many pleasant conversations together um i would just to be honest have to go back and draw out of edwards what he says about that particular verse i would simply say that we should take the writer of hebrews at face value i do not believe that angels per se come and visit us as celestial beings as we have revealed in scripture as they do they do not show up to us in some sort of spiritual form why because we have the revealed scripture we don't need angels to come to us anymore we don't need angels to preach the gospel to us anymore we don't need angels to confirm christ anymore because as peter said about the transfiguration i've seen the transfigured christ but what i have seen pales in comparison to what you have which is the revealed word of god and so the scripture trumps angels and i hope that makes sense do we perhaps entertain angels of which we're unaware i think perhaps the case would could be made that perhaps we do nothing in scripture says that they have ceased from taking on human flesh to enact the purposes of god in various stages through history in various stages around the world we know that the possession of the demonic is a very real reality for those who do not know christ and so yes i believe that's the case but the key phrase in that verse is that we are unaware of their presence so you're saying that uh an angel or angels can visibly show up in our presence that but they are not to be giving us a new message joseph smith was wrong about the visitation correct in fact not only wrong but he uh very likely made it up unless it was a demonic manifestation but um so you're saying that we can just as it says or what it appears to say we could be hanging out with an angel and just not know it well i think that's what it says isn't it we do have a verse where even satan disguises himself 2nd corinthians 11 14 speaks of satan masquerading as an angel of light and so perhaps that is the case um but preeminently we must remember angels will not tell us something give us something contrary to what is revealed in scripture thank you so much mary for the excellent question and i forgot to tell carla and mechanicsberg who is a first -time questioner carla you have won a free copy of the new american standard bible so we need your full mailing address in mechanicsberg so that cvbbs .com

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crumblin valley bible book service can ship that out to you we always give our new listeners or first -time questioners i mean you could have been listening for years but our first -time questioners a free nasb compliments of the publishers of the nasb who are have always been a crucial sponsor of iron trap and zion radio uh we have another first -time listener and where is his question i just had it in front of me oh here it is uh we have a first -time questioner and his name is andrew in dalton georgia and andrew asks hey chris my question is do angels surround us as believers to guard us from physical and or spiritual dangers and the second question is what did jonathan edwards think and i will ask you a third question he has on sinners in the hands of an angry god after you answer those well you've already delved into some of that but do you have anything to add about angels like for instance if i'm walking across the street is it possible that an angel protected me from being hit by a car and i don't even know it absolutely um i think that is the evidence in scripture we have angels uh letting individuals out of prison we have angels feeding uh other individuals in scripture we have an angel ministering to christ during his temptation in the wilderness um scripture is replete with evidence and examples of the angelic host protecting god's people protecting individuals um on a daily basis now again i think we have to be very careful chris in trying to look for a demon or an angel behind every tree we are not to seek angels we are not to look for angels we are not to talk to angels we are not to pray to angels god enacts his plan in the lives of human beings protection guidance direction etc under the guise of angels but we are never to focus on them only on christ and edwards again and again makes this a necessary emphasis coming out of the medieval period where the conversations took up the idea of how many angels can stand on the head of a pin and various other ridiculous type of questions john calvin again and again in his writings warn people of the dangers of looking for angels he even says that he will not even discuss the matter afraid that someone will take his words wrongly wow and so i'm not saying be scared of angels absolutely not but angels are to focus us upon god if you're walking across the street and an angel protects you then we praise the lord for that perhaps you didn't even know it in heaven perhaps it will be revealed to us but in essence god's sovereign plan before the foundation of the world is the one who enacted that protection amen and when you say perhaps we wouldn't know it would we ever know it uh i mean would we ever be given a certainty that hey that was an angel that just saved my life or that was an angel that gave me a bowl of soup or a glass of cold water would we ever know that uh in my view no i don't think we would um the writer of hebrews is quite specific that we are unaware of their presence that's why angels do not take upon the form of humans they are spirits they are invisible and so as an angel acts to enact certain things in the lives of believers it is in essence the hand of god doing it himself i'm sorry i just got a little bit confused you said that they're invisible but don't they as did i did i mistakenly think that you said that sometimes they manifest in some kind of a visible appearance well i would just i would just give this as a footnote that angels yes may manifest a human type likeness a human flesh in order to do certain things as god wills however they were not created as human beings with flesh and bones yes so that's a clarification there if god intended for us to constantly know of an angelic presence then i dare say they would in essence not be invisible if they enact or take upon human flesh to do something that god wishes to be done i would dare say that uh that would be a very very um that would be a moment unaware a moment i'm i'm lost for words here a moment that should be very seldom there it is very very seldom angels enact what they do as invisible spirits and when you said we must never speak with angels obviously if we're being hospitable to an angel unaware we would be speaking to somebody that we thought was human so therefore we wouldn't be talking to an angel knowingly absolutely what i'm saying chris is don't stand on the sidewalk before you walk this across the street and pray to an angel to protect you that you're not going to get hit and killed that's what i'm saying we should direct our prayers directly to god but we can ask one of the guardian angels that hangs out in the subways of new york city for help i'll leave that to you all right i'm going to read uh the last question before we go to the break the last break the last question of andrew i should say and then you could answer it when we return please tell dustin oh this doesn't look like a question it's a it's a statement please tell dustin that sinners in the hands of an angry god was also required in my english literature class in high school and was also my first exposure to jonathan edwards okay there's no question there's no question all right well thank you alex since you're a first -time questioner as well you're also going to get a free new american standard bible so email me your full mailing address in dalton georgia this is our final break it's going to be a lot briefer than the last one so send in your question as quickly as you can because we're rapidly running out of time it's chrisarnson at gmail .com

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chrisarnson at gmail .com don't go away we'll be right back after these messages from our sponsors iron sharpens iron welcomes solid rock remodeling to our family of sponsors serving south central pennsylvania solid rock remodeling is focused on discovering understanding and exceeding your expectations they deliver personalized project solutions with exceptional results solid rock remodeling offers a full range of home renovations including kitchen and bath remodeling decks porches windows and doors roof and siding and more for a clear detailed professional estimate call this trustworthy team of problem solvers who provide superior results that stand to the test of time call solid rock remodeling at 717 -697 -1981 717 -697 -1981 or visit solidrockremodeling .com

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that's linbrookbaptist .org chris sorenson host of iron sharpens iron radio here i want to tell you about a man i have personally known for many years his name is dan buttafuoco dan is a personal injury and medical malpractice lawyer but not the type that typically comes to mind dan cares about people and is a theologian himself recently he wrote a book titled consider the evidence for the bible ravi zacharias wrote the foreword dan also has a master's degree in theology dan handles serious injury and medical malpractice cases in all 50 states he represents many christians in serious injury matters all over the country dan is an exceptional trial lawyer he wrote the test for the national board of trial advocacy and currently his firm has over 100 cases that have settled for one million dollars or more and in approximately 10 different states in illinois his lawyers had the fourth largest settlement in the state's history in new york his case involving a paralyzed police officer made the front page of the law journal if you have a serious personal injury or medical malpractice claim in any state i recommend that you call dan consultations are free there is no fee unless you win dan buttafuoco's number is 1 -800 -669 -4878 1 -800 -669 -4878 or email me for dan's contact information at chrisarnson at gmail .com

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that's chrisarnson at gmail .com i'm dr gary kimbrough pastor bethlehem baptist church in laurel mississippi god tells us in james 127 that pure and undefiled religion is a visit to fatherless and widows and their affliction in the providence of god three years ago i discovered a poor small church outside lusaka zambia in a township called cabanana who are taking care of 24 orphans i found them just at the time when they had lost all their funding what was i to do could i just say god bless you and walk away the situation of the children said heavily upon me as i was praying concerning this need it came to me i trust from the lord to tell the orphans plight to a broader audience the entire need for their clothing food education and some medical services is 73 dollars per month per child if just 50 of us would give 35 a month we could meet the need bethlehem baptist church will pay the fee to get the funds there so if you give a dollar a dollar we'll get to the orphans in this season of hope and giving will you consider giving hope to 24 orphans please send your gift of any amount to bethlehem baptist church 838 reed road laurel mississippi 39443 or donate through our website bbclaurel .com

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again the address is bethlehem baptist church 838 reed road laurel mississippi 39443 or bbclaurel .com

01:45:44

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that's nasbible .com to place your order every day at thousands of community centers high schools middle schools juvenile institutions coffee shops and local hangouts long island youth for christ staff and volunteers meet with young people who need jesus we are rural and urban and we are always about the message of jesus our mission is to have a noticeable spiritual impact on long island new york by engaging young people in the lifelong journey of following christ long island youth for christ has been a stalwart bedrock ministry since 1959 we have a world -class staff and a proven track record of bringing consistent love and encouragement to youths in need all over the country and around the world help honor our history by becoming a part of our future volunteer donate pray or all of the above for details call long island youth for christ at 631 385 8333 that's 631 385 8333 or visit liyfc .org

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that's liyfc .org listening to christian radio can be a big gamble spiritually even many of the major christian networks that include excellent biblically faithful teachers on their lineup sadly often also include the worst of doctrinally dangerous heretics if you are a lover of the doctrines of sovereign grace you need not fear listening 24 hours a day to firstloveradio .org

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they feature christ -centered programming from reformed pastors and teachers you can rely upon for theological soundness and biblical faithfulness such as dr wr downing dr peter masters pastor joe jacobs pastor robert gifford al martin edward dalcour and more firstloveradio .org

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after iron sharpens iron radio is over to continue being blessed by the unwavering proclamation of the gospel of sovereign grace spread the word about firstloveradio .org

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and i urge you to continue contacting joe jackowitz the founder and president of first love radio at firstloveradio .org

01:50:20

to let him know that you continue to pray for him as many of you he was recently diagnosed with an aggressive and deadly form of leukemia having originally been given the frightening prognosis of only having a 40 to 60 percent chance of survival well god proved the physicians to be incorrect and joe is now in remission and was sent home from the hospital two weeks earlier than they ever expected and the doctor the primary doctor involved in joe's care was absolutely astonished he said that in all his years as a physician especially as a specialist in this form of leukemia he had never seen anybody recover that rapidly so continue to send in your encouragement to joe but also keep praying that this remission remains permanent and that he is completely healed unfortunately as we all know sometimes these remissions don't last permanently and the cancer comes back so we would ask you to pray that that is not the case with joe jackowitz and that he has many decades left well perhaps not many decades because he's in his 60s but that he has many more years left to boldly proclaim the doctrines of sovereign grace and to be a blessing to the body of christ and to the lost with the message of the gospel uh here on this earth before the lord takes him home and i just thank god for his friendship and i thank god for first love radio who live streams this program daily we are now back with our guest dustin bench for the final segment of our program and dustin we have another cork ireland resident i don't know if this is also a student or not but richard in cork ireland asks does edwards not claim that jesus only became head of the angels once satan was chucked out of well that that's a very interesting question um i'm not sure if he's a student or not um i've come in contact with several people uh in cork and but it's an excellent question and it leads me to a good topic which is about kind of what edwards believed about the fall of lucifer uh which is about um what is quite peculiar uh in edwards theology uh is about his understanding of the fall of lucifer so if i could just talk about that for a moment uh maybe we could end the segment by talking about his understanding of the fall of lucifer sure um writing extensively on the fallen angels edwards believed that lucifer was created to be immensely superior to all the other angels and maintained a type of leadership dominion and strength over the angels so edwards believes that the angels were created with a hierarchy and lucifer being at the head of that hierarchy greater edward says in natural capacity strength wisdom dignity the brightest of all the stars edward says and so but he's very quick to point out as the second person of the godhead the lord jesus christ is exalted supremely higher than lucifer in other words while lucifer was only near the throne of god edward says that christ being supremely higher and more excellent in his being was allowed to sit down forever on the throne of god so edwards believed lucifer was assigned to cover or to protect the beloved race or elect man elect humanity that was god's jewel edward says his treasure his first fruits and so in other words lucifer according to edwards was employed at the creation of man to be the protector of redeemed humanity but we know that lucifer fell and so it was the very excellency and greatness of lucifer according to edwards that became the occasion for his fall from heaven edwards believed the temptation of the angels that caused their ultimate fall was that when god was about to create man or had already created him god declared to the angels that one of the same human nature should be as his son thus christ assumes the role at that point as their head and king edward says of all of redeemed humanity so god who declared before the foundation of his world the great love he had for the elect and christ to be their redeemer edward says he gave the angels the charge of them as ministering spirits to them so in essence this event caused the fall of lucifer and a great number of the other holy angels edwards explains that lucifer could not bear the thought that he was employed to serve and protect those who were hierarchically below him within creation and thus because christ was found in the likeness of men in his incarnation lucifer and a vast host of the other angels could not bear that him being in a human form should rule over them in glory and so they rebelled this is a fascinating understanding chris to an understanding of how lucifer and what occasioned his fall now to the question very very quickly when christ ascended back to heaven edwards uses a phrase very peculiar to edwards that i hope in future writing and books to get into this phrase he calls christ the second lucifer wow that is amazing so in other words every position every rank every brightness every purpose that lucifer was created for christ upon his ascension takes upon himself and at that moment becomes the king of angels so not only is jesus the second adam but according to edwards he is also a second lucifer and send all of your complaints to dustin chris i would love to write a book my goodness i would love to write a book entitled christ the second lucifer because i think there is a whole world of angelology and theology that opens up to us in the superiority of christ over angels including lucifer well dustin i know that i want to have you back many more times in the future as long as the lord will allow and you are agreeable to being our guest again and do you have any uh contact information that you care to share uh yeah probably just a twitter handle perhaps some of your followers already follow me on twitter it's just my name d -u -s -t -i -n -b -e -n -g -e so my first and last name you can find me on twitter um i have a ship as my cover profile so you can recognize me there a couple of fake accounts on twitter that are impersonating me but i think you'll know when you come across the real account dustin binge that's the only thing in the twitter handle you can contact me there you can message me there if you're in pennsylvania i would enjoy seeing you this weekend chris it's been a real pleasure to talk with you today you too and carla don't forget to either give me your mailing address for the free new american standard bible that you want or if you since you're in mechanicsburg pennsylvania want to come to the conference in harrisburg this weekend and for details go to grace bfc .com

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grace bfc for bible fellowship church .com forward slash conference grace bfc .com