Defending Calvinism: Total Depravity

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Defending Calvinism. Today, we're talking about total brevity or total inability. Welcome back to another episode of Apologia Radio.

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This is the Gospel Heard Around the World. I'm Jeff, the Culminator Ninja, and that's Zachary Conover.

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Thank you guys for joining us. We thought that we would continue that discussion that Zach and I had a couple of weeks ago now on Calvinism, the doctrines of grace, and we think it's an important subject because so much of it provides a foundation to the grace of God in the

06:48

Gospel. So many of you remarked on how it was just a blessing to listen to an hour or so of teaching, and we started with the sovereignty of God.

06:59

Stulip. Stulip, yeah. And of course, if you're new to this discussion about Calvinism and the doctrines of grace, you've probably heard

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Tulip, total depravity, unconditional election, limited atonement, irresistible grace, and the perseverance of the saints.

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We like to start that discussion, as my fellow elder has remarked on, with the real foundation underneath all of it, and that's the sovereignty of God.

07:26

So we call it Stulip or Stupip and whatever. Which is basically just a way of saying we're reasoning from God downward.

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Yes. We're not starting with man as the creature. Yeah. So, I mean, admittedly, and this is nothing to be ashamed of, it's exactly where you need to go in this, this discussion about the grace of God and salvation, the discussion about predestination, election, all of that has to start with the foundation of the

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Word of God. What do the scriptures say? So, of course, underneath the sovereignty of God components of this discussion is the affirmation of sola scriptura, or the revelation of God as supreme, that the scriptures of the

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Old and New Testaments are the rule of faith by which we should measure this discussion. What does

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God say, not in one place, but throughout His revelation on this? And so, of course, affirmation of sola scriptura, an affirmation of the sovereignty of God over all things, the comprehensive sovereignty of God.

08:25

And then we get into the discussion about the nature of man, God's electing grace. Did the atonement accomplish anything?

08:31

Was it a potential atonement, a potential salvation? Or was it a particular atonement that actually accomplished

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God's will for the atonement? What power does God have to convert sinners?

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And when God saves somebody, does He keep them? That's the question. And so we're going to get into those.

08:52

You guys are really blessed by that discussion. We're blessed to have it. It always is a blessing to talk about these things because it brings glory to God.

08:58

It makes much of God, it makes little of us. And so today we're going to be talking about total depravity, or as I like to refer to it, total inability.

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Many people prefer that terminology. R .C. Sproul used radical corruption also.

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Yeah, so great ways to express it. It really just has to do with the nature of man in the fall. Are we dead in sins and trespasses or are we spiritually sick?

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Do we go with what the Bible says when it says people are unable to come to God, apart from God drawing them, that they have no ability or is their will free?

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Are they truly free? Do people come into the world with a tabula rasa, a blank slate? Or do people come into the world dead in their sins and trespasses, inheriting, of course, that condemnation from Adam, our first parent?

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What is our condition? Are we by nature children of wrath or do we all come into this world as children of God?

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Which is the popular teaching today. The popular teaching of today, exactly. And so we're going to get into that today, but before we do, just real quick, so that we don't get messed up in the discussion we're having.

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You guys are probably all seeing this and you've probably heard me talk about this before. Does Jeff have a problem?

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What is this patch going on here? What weird thing is going on? And so I like to announce it because I'm a big, big believer in it.

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It's a Christian -owned company, and I'm so grateful to God for what they have come up with.

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This is an NAD patch. NAD, NAD patch. And you guys maybe have heard me talk about this before.

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Again, I'm a big believer in people creating things that extend human life and bless human life.

10:41

And so NAD is something that you have available within your system.

10:46

It's just a God -given biochemical. It's something in your system. It's referred to as the fountain of youth because it's the chemical or what's in your system that helps to keep everything operating.

11:02

It feeds everything. And so your cells are kept in the state that they're supposed to be.

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Everything's working properly because you have an abundance of NAD when you are younger.

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An abundance of it. And so that's why they call it the fountain of youth because you've got so much of it and it keeps everything working the way it's supposed to.

11:19

If you went without NAD in your system for 30 seconds, you'd be dead. That's how important it is to your system.

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As you get older, your levels of NAD drop pretty dramatically, like half.

11:31

And so you start to age. You get older and you're aging because a number of reasons. And one of the things is you don't have as much

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NAD anymore. And so a lot of people, wealthy people, sports stars, athletes, all that stuff, they've been in on the

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NAD for a long time. And what they have done, and you may even heard Joe Rogan talking about it when he got the vid, he did

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NAD IV treatment and he also did some other stuff. But he announced it and so people were like, what's

12:00

NAD? But NAD has been used for a long time, helping people recover, get their systems back online.

12:07

But the problem is, and this is why I was always afraid of it, the problem is that NAD through an IV everyone knows is torture.

12:14

I don't exactly. I know there's a reason why and you can look it up. But it's torture.

12:20

People talk about having an elephant on their chest. It's very, very difficult to endure. And more costly to obtain.

12:26

Yeah, yeah. It's like an hour long process to get that IV drip to happen. And sometimes people say they have to just stop midway and say, turn it, just turn it off.

12:32

And as soon as you turn it off, like it stops. But as soon as you turn it back on, that drip is happening. It's like really, really painful.

12:40

So people do it anyways because the benefits of like get that. Beauty is pain. Yeah, get that NAD drip.

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And then like my friend said, it felt like you're Iron Man. You can like knock down walls afterwards. And my friend, good friend of mine, someone

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I love dearly, famous baseball player, after a hip replacement surgery, he did it.

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And he was like exercising a week later or something. It's just insane to get a hip surgery and then a hip replacement and then be working out like that.

13:05

And so anyway, my wife and I got connected to this company, Ion Layer. And Ion Layer does it through a patch so you don't have the torture of the

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IV drip. And like Zach said, it is significantly cheaper. You're looking at like $800 for a drip.

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So they've made it more accessible. Yeah, and this is a medical patch where it gets into your system over like 14 hours.

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And you just skip over all the pain and all the difficulty. And you actually get fresh NAD because you mix it yourself.

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And you get a lot of it. And so it's just way, way cheaper. And it's just such a blessing to our bodies and human life.

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Not like caffeine. Just I felt good. I felt healthy. Good. I felt really, really good. Vibrant.

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My wife had like the long vid symptoms where she had no – favorite smells were all like they smelled like sewage.

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Coffee tasted like garbage. All that stuff for like two years. And she thought she was going to be stuck with it for life.

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I mean she legitimately thought this is just what I got to deal with. Coffee is going to taste like hot garbage. And so we got these in.

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Gave it to her. And it was like I think three days later. And she was like I got two of my smells and tastes back.

14:26

Now take that for what it is. The only thing different she did is she did the NAD patch. And then it came back.

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And so I'm grateful to God for that. I thank God for this company. I thank God for these brothers who are over this company.

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I'm so thankful for things like this that bless and prolong human life. And so, yeah.

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So if you go to IonLayer .com, IonLayer .com, and you go put in APOLOGIA in the –

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I think it's all caps – in the coupon code, they give you a big discount. Love them.

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I have to just be honest as we have these discussions in a show like this. So many people regularly ask us to be a part of APOLOGIA Radio and to have their stuff put on APOLOGIA Radio.

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Honestly, we turn the vast majority of it down. If I don't truly believe in something, it's not going up on our program.

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I really love these guys. I love this product. I love this – I love what it does. I love how it blesses human life.

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I love their business. I love the fact that they're believers. And so that's why we're talking about it on the show because I am just –

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I'm really grateful for it. I really, really am. It's really helped me because I'm 45 years old right now. 45 years old right now, and I've noticed –

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Old man. The muscles ain't working as quickly as they used to, and so I have to train extra hard to get where I need to be.

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Pull a hammy on a sidekick or what? That happened to me like a year and a half ago. I was training hard again, and then one day –

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That's hard. I run every day, and I do martial arts and all that stuff. And so I come around the bend of my house, and then the last part

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I sprint as hard as I can because I'm exhausted. I'm like, fight, push, push. And so I just start to sprint.

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I get halfway up my driveway, and I'm just like, bloop, and like hammy blew out of – There it goes. Anyway, I've been recovering faster with NAD now.

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I can work harder and not experience like the week -long pain stuff. And so that's what it's done for me.

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So that's what we wanted to do is tell you about that. So ionlayer .com. Go there. Check it out. I think it'll be a real blessing to your life, and so let's get into it.

16:25

When you think about total inability, Zach, why –

16:30

Okay, first of all, why do you believe it, and why do you think it's important to know and defend it?

16:36

That particular starting point, total depravity, total inability. You know, I was thinking about this very thing and asking myself, anytime we do study in the

16:46

Word or we're preparing to teach or instruct, it's really the so what of it all that comes at the end.

16:53

What's at stake here, like getting this right? Why is it so important to get it right? It's actually one of my favorites of the acrostic to discuss because I think if you fail here, then you get everything else wrong.

17:04

That's exactly right. So what's at stake? The grace of God, I would say, in the Gospel, and by extension to that, the fact that if we get grace right, then we understand that God isn't under any compulsion to give it.

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Yeah. To anybody. Right. If he is, if he's compelled to do this, if he must, then it's no longer grace.

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Grace loses its graciousness, I think, when we get the condition of man wrong.

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So when we're talking about total inability, total depravity, radical corruption, really what we're talking about is to what extent has mankind fallen?

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Everyone agrees that the whole human race fell on Adam. The Bible teaches very, very clearly, the doctrine of original sin, that all of us have a representative outside of Christ, and his name is

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Adam. He's our first father. But where the dispute tends to come in this is, well, how serious was the effect of the fall on our human nature?

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Like, how far -reaching is sin's corruption, actually? Like, does it touch every part of us, or is there something preserved from sin's corrupting effects upon us?

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We all know that our bodies wear out and get sick and we die. We all know that our thoughts are corrupt and futile outside of Christ.

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But is there something intact that hasn't been touched by sin? You know, our reason, for example, our human reason.

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Are we able to actually come to God? So it's not utter depravity, right?

18:44

That's not what we're saying when we talk about total depravity, in that humanity in our fallen state is as evil as we possibly could be.

18:56

It's not that. It's that, you know, because God has preserved us, in many ways, by his grace, from going off the deep end and falling into complete sin and self -destruction.

19:07

To that point, God is constantly restraining man from the evil that he wants to do.

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Right, and that's the key right there is desire, motivation, will.

19:20

You know, what we're talking about in this is not that, you know, people don't make choices. You know, a fallen man makes choices.

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It's what's the nature of that choice, and what does man desire in the natural state apart from God?

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And the answer to that is it's not God. Right. He's not looking for God. He's not running towards God.

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When you ask the question, what does the Bible have to say about our condition? We're enemies, we're rebels, we're hostile against God, we're disobedient, children of wrath is the other definition.

19:56

And all those identifiers you just gave, you're literally quoting Scripture. Right, right. And so every part of us has been touched by sin.

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It's not that we're as evil as we possibly could be, but there isn't a part of us that hasn't been affected by the fall.

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And we're talking in that sense about the nature of man in the fall. Right.

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That's the main issue is what is the nature of man in the fall? We're held captive to a master, and the

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Bible defines that master as sin. And of course, there is description about us, you know, the bondage of the will, the famous book by Martin Luther.

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Luther versus Erasmus. That's a biblical definition of our fallen estate, is that we're captive to Satan.

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We're captive to the bondage of sin. And therefore, we cannot originate the love of God within our own hearts.

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We can't affect our own conversion, and we cannot do that which is spiritually pleasing to God. That's what we're talking about here.

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Not can we have moments of virtue in our lives, you know, when we help a neighbor across the street, or we, you know, give to the poor.

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Unbelievers can do those things, too, by common grace. There's atheist charities. Yeah. But there's a,

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Lorraine Bettner referred to this as even in man's charity, there's a fatal defect in his goodness.

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I'm glad you brought that up, yeah. There's a fatal defect in his goodness, and that is his motivations are all wrong. He's not doing it for the glory of God.

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And he's not doing it in independence upon God's power to carry it out, because he thinks that he is self -originating, self -sustaining, self -existent, apparently, in his idolatrous condition, in his desire to be completely separate from God, which, by the way, is how the

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Bible refers to how we are. You know, we don't want God in our knowledge.

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We don't want the reminders of God in creation all around us. Romans 1. Constantly screaming at us that he exists, that he's the creator, and that we're accountable to him.

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We want to do our own thing. To that point, real quickly, Gordon Stein, there's a part in the

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Gordon Stein, Greg Monson debate on the existence of God, where I think it's near the end of the debate where they start talking about atheists doing good things.

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And Stein, as an atheist, says that himself, out of his own mouth. He says it by his own mouth. He says, no, atheists do good.

22:20

They do good things, he said, and there are many atheist charities. He goes, and the great thing about not believing in God and all this is that when you do these good things, you get the credit for it.

22:29

That's what he said. And so it's like, well, yeah. There's the departure. There's the departure. You're not doing it for the glory of God, for the good of the image of God.

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You're doing it because you want the credit for it. Right. Yeah. That's the distinction, is that man can do those good things in and of themselves, but whatever does not proceed from a heart of faith is sin, the

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Bible tells us. Romans 14, I believe. So what's the motivation?

22:53

Is it self -aggrandizing? Is it to have a name and fame with the world? Is it to be viewed in a more morally positive light?

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None of those things are the kind of righteousness that God commands us to have.

23:08

And the point about righteousness is that it's an inward renovation of God by the spirit. So when we're talking about total inability, the

23:16

Ethiopian can't change himself. The leopard can't change its spots.

23:22

Right. Right. This is how we are by nature, and we cannot change ourselves.

23:28

We can't. The decisive hinge point of salvation does not come from within us. It has to come from outside of us.

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It has to come from a power acting upon us. And of course, that comes later on in the tulip with regeneration.

23:40

Yeah. Heirs of grace. Yes. The inward renewal of the person. That's what has to take place because apart from that, we're hopeless.

23:49

Ephesians chapter 2 describes our condition in which it says that we're separated from the commonwealth of Israel, strangers to the covenants of promise, talking about the

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Gentiles, having no hope and without God in the world. That's the condition.

24:05

And I'd love for you to talk about Ephesians chapter 2 as well in the beginning there, dead and trespasses and sins. But just maybe set up the discussion that way.

24:13

We are unable. We don't have the power to come to God. And we can't do that, which is spiritually pleasing to him.

24:20

That's right. And a lot of Christians will hear all the verses. You're literally, you're just speaking scripture right now. You're taking little snippets of verses and pulling it into conversation.

24:27

And there's more. No, there's more. But a lot of Christians will say, well, I agree with all that and I'm still not reformed.

24:33

And I would say, okay, it's one thing to acknowledge that that's what the Bible says, that we are by nature children of wrath, that we're dead in our sins and trespasses, we're hostile, all of that, unable to come to God.

24:45

It's another thing to actually allow your theology to actually express it. Now, I believe that's true about you to the degree that now it impacts my evangelism.

24:53

Precisely. It impacts my view of man and the grace of God and salvation. So the real question here with TULIP is just this, how gracious is

24:59

God's grace? That's the key issue. And the reason why I'm bringing that up now is because we're going to get into a ton of scripture here.

25:05

But in terms of people understanding the particulars of where this dispute arises in Christian history, this is really important.

25:13

So in Christian history, literally it's in the pages of scripture themselves in the

25:18

New Testament record, the ancient record of the church is the New Testament itself.

25:24

So if you want to know about what the ancient church was like, read the New Testament. That's the ancient record of the church. And in that ancient record of the church, you've got now evidence that the apostles, the inspired apostles are having to contend with opposition that looks like Christianity.

25:42

So this came as a response to something. Exactly. So, so in the New Testament itself, you see the marks of the dispute going on between the early

25:51

Gnostics and the Christians and the early Gnostics were using

25:56

Christian language. They are borrowing Christian terminology, but they were seen as enemies of the

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Christian church. And so you've got the apostle John and the apostle Paul dealing with the early beginnings of Gnosticism.

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And so my point is, is like, they're having, they're having to deal with heretical and apostate theology in the pages of the

26:16

New Testament itself. And then you get out of the apostolic era and you move into the second century. And now what are you dealing with?

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Well, the church has to contend with other things like, again, Gnosticism. They are the enemies of the Christian church.

26:28

So the second century of the church, Christians are now having to deal with, these are the disciples of the apostles.

26:33

They're having to deal with the Gnostics. And then you have like Marcion and you've got the attempt to pull sort of an

26:40

Andy Stanley of the second century. And that's the OG Andy Stanley in a sense. And detach the

26:46

Old Testament scriptures from the New Testament. And so they're having to deal with that nonsense. And the early Christian church having to deal with Sabellianism and modalism.

26:54

And as you start to move forward in history, let's just be honest, not everything is on the map in terms of theological disputes.

27:02

Some of the main things the church is having to deal with is you're having to deal with the authoritative record of the church.

27:08

That is the inspired writings. You're having to deal with that and contend with Marcionites and all that stuff. But you're also having to deal in those first few centuries,

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I mean, in a big way, like the premier issues, the big ticket items is the nature of God, the deity of the

27:21

Lord Jesus Christ, because then you start moving forward. And now what are you dealing with? Well, you're dealing with issues like Arianism, Bishop Arius of Alexandria.

27:29

You got to fight against that heretic who's teaching Unitarian perspective and that Jesus is this first and greatest creation of God sort of a thing, like early on, that kind of thing.

27:39

And so the church is not having to fight every single spiritual battle at once in the first few centuries. They're sort of like the big ticket items, like the

27:46

Trinity. Who is God? Who is God? The deity of Christ. You're dealing with those kind of big ticket items. Now, as time goes on, though, yeah, you're dealing with like Augustine has to deal with Pelagius and you got, of course,

27:58

Augustine is squarely on the side of the Reformation when it comes to like monergism in so many ways.

28:06

Like, look, you're going to find a mess in Christian history. It's a beautiful mess. You're going to find the giants of the faith saying the things that sound just like Paul and Jesus, and you're going to see them face planning.

28:15

And so you do like, look, Augustine... As such with all history. Augustine is a premier example of this.

28:21

And this is really important as you get into the discussion of total depravity and like where this comes and this dispute in the Reformation.

28:27

Augustine is just this giant. I love Augustine. I named my son after him. Okay. He's a giant.

28:33

He teaches that the rule... He teaches in many ways, Sola Scriptura. I mean, some of the greatest discourses about Sola Scriptura are from Augustine.

28:45

I mean, he's talking about the rule of faith. And I don't care what this person said or that person said. If it doesn't match the

28:50

Old and New Testaments, it's not true. It's not binding. He says things like that. It's like, well, that's just pure Sola Scriptura right there.

28:56

Welcome to the Reformation. But Augustine also staunchly defends monergism because he's fighting its

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Pelagianism. And so you're like, dude, Augustine is on the side of the reformers here. And then at the same time, you're going to find

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Augustine where the Roman Catholics are quoting from him because he's saying stuff that the Roman Catholics love. And you're like, yeah, I acknowledge it.

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Look, Augustine was an uninspired, fallible man. And you've got him saying great things that are in accordance with the scriptures and other things that Rome loves.

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But here's the point. You move forward in history, and of course you've got the schism and you've got the separation of the

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East versus the West. Time goes on, and the West, you talk about Rome, just starts adding on so much over time, doctrinal perversion, and starts adding things and binding things to the consciences of people that are not

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A, in the Bible, and B, in church history. And that's one of the things the reformers were arguing about with Rome is they were like, look, you guys have departed from scripture and church history.

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So the reformers regularly, regularly quoted from the fathers. Their argument was like, this is not a theological novum.

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We're not giving you something new. This stuff is in the whole history of the church. You'll find it everywhere. And so when you get into the time of the actual

30:09

Reformation itself, by that time there is so much theological darkness. Rome has face planted to such a degree that a reformation is necessary and a call back to the rule of faith.

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Now, what is this center around? The Reformation is centering around a couple things that are in orbit with each other, and one of those things primarily is what's the final authority here?

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Because you guys are pulling rabbits out of a hat here, guys. I mean, this isn't in scripture or church history. Like, where are you going?

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Is the papacy just going to make stuff up now? This person over here just gets to define? Eastern Orthodox, they don't even agree with the papacy.

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The reformers are going, they agree with us on this. Like, you pulled a rabbit out of a hat with this one. You're not even going to find this in early church history.

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This role, this infallible interpreter, this guy, this position of the papacy.

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Look, even Eastern Orthodox, they don't agree with you on this. It's not just the reformers. Like, we're in tandem on this.

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You guys pulled that out of a hat. And so the Reformation was clearly saying, well, what is going to be the final authority here, guys?

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Because church history is beautiful and it's messy. You're going to find so much testimony to the truth found in scripture, and you're going to find guys that contradict themselves and each other.

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And so where's your rule of faith? Do you go with Augustine? Are you going to go with Athanasius? That the rule of faith is the scriptures themselves?

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And so here's the thing. It goes squarely to sola scriptura, what's the ultimate authority? And then because of everything that was going on in terms of Rome and indulgences and paying money to spring people out of purgatory and paying money for yourself and your own sins, all this stuff that Rome adds, what comes front and center during the time of the

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Reformation? The grace of God and salvation. The question of the Reformation was, how gracious is

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God's grace? How free is this gift? And so that's why in the whole spectrum of church history, you get to a point where it's like, all right, now the fight is on here.

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It wasn't on in the first few centuries of the church like this. During the time of the Reformation, it wasn't even a major focus.

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There was no target over it because they're dealing with other things like trying not to die from Roman soldiers, throwing them into an arena or burning all their books.

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They're just trying to survive. And then it's defend the Trinity, defend the Trinity. It's those sorts of issues.

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Reformation, now it's like, well, wait a minute. Is this salvation truly of God's grace?

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And what's the nature of God's grace? And better, what's the nature of man in the fall? And so you get to the time of the

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Reformation, the Reformers are actually coming to Rome and going, you don't agree with the Bible. You don't agree with points of church history.

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You need to repent. And so, of course, Reformation happens. And then as time moves on in the Reformation, that's where this tulip comes from.

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Because now you have, and I'm not going to make this whole show about the history of tulip, but you need to study this history because it's important.

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Calvinists didn't just pull tulip out and say, this is really cute. Let's do this. No, the followers of Jacob Arminius formed a remonstrance, an official protest.

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And it's like, we don't agree with what all that you guys are teaching here about the grace of God, the nature of man and salvation, the atonement as a perfect atonement, saving forever.

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We don't really agree with that. And so they had a remonstrance, a protest, and they gave their points.

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And what did the Reformed community at that time do? They took a heck of a lot of time, a lot of time with a lot of coming together and a lot of pastors, scholars, theologians, missionaries to come together around the scriptures to form an official response to the remonstrance, to the followers of Jacob Arminius.

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And so in history, it became known as Calvinism versus Arminianism because that's where the fight took place.

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And I want to just say it's very important. This whole thing about Calvinism, I'm not a Calvinist. I don't follow a guy named

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John Calvin. Well, neither do I. I've never actually read John Calvin's stuff. I've seen quotes from him

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I appreciate and things like that. It's nice, but I've never actually sat and read through John Calvin. I'm not a Calvinist because of anything to do with John Calvin.

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As a matter of fact, ultimately, Calvinism has nothing to do with a man, John Calvin. It has to do with a theological title over a fight.

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And that fight goes to scripture and says, what does the scripture say about the grace of God and salvation, the atonement itself, how

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God saves, the nature of man in the fall? And so it just becomes a title like Trinitarian.

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Is the word Trinity in the Bible? No. But it's a title over a system so it can express in a punch exactly where you're at on the issue.

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And Calvinism, I take the title gladly because that title expresses a view of the nature of man and the atonement itself and God's power and salvation and the grace of God and salvation.

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And so I take that gladly. It's got nothing to do with the man named John Calvin. It has to do with just a title over the dispute.

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Where do you land on this dispute? And I say, well, I'm a Calvinist because I believe these things about what the

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Bible teaches about that. So that's where this fight ultimately came from. And it's important for us to recognize this is the way the history has gone.

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This is the point in history where the grace of God and salvation was really put to a point and the fight brewed over it.

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And the question is, what do the scriptures say? That's where we need to land. So that's what we're going to do on today's show.

35:30

Yeah. You say it all the time and you said it often in the past. When I started hearing about these things, it was never about Calvinism and adhering to the teachings of John Calvin.

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It was always about what did Jesus say? What did Paul say? What did Peter say?

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How were you convinced of Calvinism? By reading John? Right. Were you? Yeah. No, I'm sorry.

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John Calvin. Oh, no. John the Apostle. John the Apostle. And that's the point. Yeah. Is that you were convinced of total depravity and tulip and the doctrines of grace.

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A reformed soteriology. You were convinced because the Bible. It wasn't from John Calvin.

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It wasn't from John Knox. It wasn't from the Puritans. You were convinced because you read scripture. Right. Yeah. Passages like Romans 8, verse 7.

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The mind that is set on the flesh, which is the unregenerate mind, is hostile to God.

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It does not submit to God's law. Indeed, it cannot. Cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please

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God. This verse was huge. Because we have to ask the question as a follow -up. Is having saving faith in Jesus Christ pleasing to God?

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Yes. The Bible says that the person in the flesh can't do that. They don't have the power.

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They can't do what's pleasing to God, like repent. Yeah. They don't have the faculties within themselves, the power, the ability, however you want to say it.

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They are not capable of doing that which pleases God. They can't submit to God's law.

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They're not even able to do so. Right. Because there's the portrait painted there in Romans 8.

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There's the mind that's set on the flesh and the mind that's set on the spirit. And those who have the spirit of Christ belong to Christ. And the point is, for those that have their minds set on the flesh, they can't submit to God's law.

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Well, are you submitting to God's law? Has it become your delight? Has it become a source of joy for you as a believer, as a

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Christian, that when there's no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, and yet the spirit is alive within you to actually facilitate and cultivate these desires now because you see the gospel as something that is excellent and beauty and praiseworthy and lovely and something that's worthy of your whole life, and you actually have a desire to obey

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God now? Well, that's the mind that's set on the spirit. You can please God, but not the mind set on the flesh, not the natural man in his unregenerate state.

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So when someone hears the gospel presented to them in an unregenerate, carnal, worldly state, they can even affirm it as historically true.

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They could say, yes, yeah, okay, that happened. But here's the point.

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They cannot create the love of God in their hearts for God and for that message.

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That's something that God has to do. They don't want to because they're hostile to God. And that actually brings it to a passage like,

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I mean, another one. This is just, I know I'm firing off the hip here. So Ephesians 4 .17, something that you just said, made this verse kind of leap to the forefront there about what does man want to do?

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What's in his heart? What is within his desire to do? Ephesians 4 .17, Now this

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I say in testifying the Lord that you must no longer walk as the Gentiles do in the futility of their minds.

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They are darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of heart.

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So why can they not see? Why or from where does the ignorance come from?

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Their hardness of heart. They can't see because they won't see. They refuse to see.

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Yes, that's very important. Jesus comments on the same idea. He says, you refuse to come to me that you may have life, right?

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You don't want to come. You're not seeing. And once again, on this point of total inability, 1

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Corinthians 2 .14, The natural person does not accept the things of the spirit of God, for they are folly to him.

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What else does the book of 1 Corinthians tell us about the word of the cross? It's moronic to those who are perishing.

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It's foolishness. It's a foolish message to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it's the gift of life.

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And he's not able, 1 Corinthians 2 .14, to understand these things, right?

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The things of God, because they are spiritually discerned. Now, what does that mean?

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It means that the spirit has to be the one to come and apply the understanding to the hearts of man and give him, of course, the appropriate thoughts that go along with that.

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But these texts are just a few examples that highlight really what we're talking about.

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Man being unable to come to God, man being unable to do that, which is spiritually pleasing to God, because born in his natural estate, he is not free.

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Very important. I think that's a very critical thing to say. He doesn't possess a free will, which is merely a philosophical concept that I don't think is rooted in scripture, but he does have a self -will.

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He is making choices. He is doing things, but those choices will always be in accordance with what he desires.

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So the nature feeds the will. Yes. The activity is dictated by the nature of the person.

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So many places bear this out. One of my favorites, and I think it really gets overlooked, is when

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Jesus is denouncing his contemporaries, and he says, how can you do good when you are evil?

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Can a bad tree bring forth good fruit? Well, the answer is no, because what's at the heart of the tree?

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A bad root. The seed of life isn't there to bring about the root, and because there's no root, there's going to be rotten fruit.

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The point is, there has to be something done inside. Otherwise, you have passages like John 3, 19, again, presenting just what the scripture says here,

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Jesus, and this is the judgment. The light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light, because their works were evil.

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What's our natural inclination? To love darkness. To not want our works to come to light, to be exposed.

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Why? Because they're evil, and why are they evil? Because of the problem of sin, and its effects on our nature.

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I was watching a video yesterday, or two days ago, and it was footage of one of those drive -through safari things.

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You know, people drive through safaris, where there's real lions. Yeah, like walking alongside the cars.

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Yeah, exactly. Those things are terrifying. Monkeys are jumping up on your hood, and they're pulling up your windshield wipers, and you're pulling up the side view mirrors.

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Well, it was security footage of a car that was driving through one of those drive -through safaris, and the car stops, and this foolish woman jumps out of the car, a passenger side of the car, runs over to the driver's side.

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Now, the description of the video is like, woman gets attacked by a lion, because she decides to have a dispute with her husband, or something like that.

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So, I don't know if that's really what was going on. It looked like it was going on. The car stops, the woman jumps out, she comes over to the driver's side, looks like she's having words with the driver, but she's in the middle of an active drive -through safari, and you're watching it, and you're like, oh no, is this really going to go bad?

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And sure enough, the moment she gets to the driver's side, starts disputing with the driver, this huge lion comes running up behind her, grabs her, and drags her off.

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Yeah, I think I saw this one. The driver jumps out of the car, and he's freaking out, like he doesn't know what to do, and everything, and everyone's freaking out.

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It's like, well, and if you ask the question, why would the lion do that? And the answer is, because it's a lion.

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Right. It's doing. It's his nature. What is his nature to do?

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Lions do. Which is why you don't hang out in parks with lions walking around.

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Why? Because you know that that lion will do lion stuff. Yeah. Which means it'll involve you in a way you don't want, and so the same thing goes with this video

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I just saw this morning. This guy in a Florida highway gets out of his car, and there's an alligator, or a crocodile.

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I always get it mixed up. I don't know which was which. I honestly don't know how to tell this part. It's just walking down the highway, and he's like, he's standing above it, and he's like, ah, ah, yelling at it, and he's smacking its nose.

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And I'm like, you buffoon. Why do that? But he's trying to get it off the highway, and you're thinking, why does it bring so much anxiety when you see things like that?

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Because you know the nature of the alligator. Yeah. You know what it's capable of. It's not a bunny rabbit.

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You know what it wants to do, and so the thing is is that what we're saying about the nature of man in the fall is that he's making choices.

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He's not a robot. Look, we have to honestly represent our opponents. Right? It's very important.

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Christians have a tendency at times to fall off of cliffs either side. Christians have a tendency, all of us do, to be imbalanced.

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And Christians, the one thing we shouldn't do is ever misrepresent somebody because we're lying. We're lying about them.

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So I don't want to misrepresent an opponent. I don't want to give a fiction about what they believe, and I certainly don't want to attack a straw man.

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We're not helping anything when we attack a straw man. So when someone says, like, I don't believe in Calvinism or Reform Theology, it makes men robots and all the rest.

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It's like, you know, if God has already determined who's going to save, nothing matters. Why are you bothering praying? I would actually turn it back on the

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Arminian and I would say, oh, why are you praying? Because if you don't think God can mess with his free will and, you know,

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God's done everything he can but the mighty will of the creature will thwart God's desire. Why are you praying?

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I'm praying because I believe that God decrees the ends as well as the means. And so all that to say, when we talk about this issue, we're not talking about human beings as robots or that they're making decisions apart from their own nature and will.

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They're doing what they want to do. God is not having anybody sin against their will.

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So like even when God hardens the heart of Pharaoh to sin against God, like Pharaoh is a rebel against God, hates

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God, hates God's people, wants to sin against God. When God hardens his heart judicially so that he's even more sinful and rebellious, even to the point where he's not,

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God's not going to allow him to preserve his own skin, right? Like, no, no, I'm going to let you be as hard as you are.

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I'm going to let you be as hard as you want to be. I'm going to harden your heart so you are going to just go down that pit of sin as far as you want to go.

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When God hardens his heart, he's not making Pharaoh do what he doesn't want to do. Pharaoh loves to be hard. Pharaoh loves to sin against God.

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Pharaoh hates God. And so even when God, for his own sovereign purposes, is directing, say, the

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Gentiles, the peoples of Israel, Pilate, Pontius Pilate, and Herod to do what they did, even when he allows them to do what they did and decrees that they would, they're doing what they want to do.

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And if they could have gotten their hands on Jesus and killed him any earlier, they would have. And by the way, they tried. Yeah. But it wasn't his time.

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Yeah, right. And he says, no one takes my life from me. I lay down a moan of cord. It was only when God had predetermined that this would occur that it actually occurred.

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And the point is is that Herod, Pontius Pilate, the peoples of Israel, and Gentiles were doing what they wanted to do. They hate

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God. Listen, humans are so sinful. I've said this often. Humans are so sinful and rebellious against God.

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We hate God so much that if God could get himself off his throne and come down here and get flesh on him, we would kill him.

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And we did. And that's the key issue. And when we can't get a hold of him, like the day and age we now live in, we'll go after his image bearers.

47:18

Yeah, exactly. Those that bear his image of the most innocence. Yes. Very good. Talking about the issue of abortion.

47:24

Exactly. So the issue about the will is not people are robots.

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They're doing, they're just doing, you know, they don't even know what's going on. They're just sort of droning on. No, they're making choices, but the nature feeds the will.

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They are doing what is in accordance with their nature. And so what we're saying is, is that people are enslaved to sin, like Jesus says, and unless the son sets you free, you'll be free indeed.

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So slaves don't sound free to me. Jesus says, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin. So I don't know where we ever get the concept biblically of people have a free will.

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Jesus says they're enslaved and he has to set you free. So we're saying that your will is enslaved.

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It's in bondage because your nature is a son or daughter of Adam and Eve. You are in the fall,

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Romans 5, 12 and 19. Sin came into the world through one man and death through sin.

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So death spread to all men because all sinned. By the one man's disobedience, the many were made sinners.

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So look, like it or lump it, that's what the Bible teaches. You don't like original sin?

48:28

Hey, neither did Pelagius. But it's the historic teaching of the church, baby. And so it's not just the historic teaching of the church.

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It's what the Bible teaches. You are either in Adam, Romans 5, or you're in Christ.

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One has condemnation and death, rebellion, hostility, and one has the gift of eternal life and righteousness.

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So you're in one of two representatives. And if you're in Adam, it says that you're dead. It says that you're condemned.

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And so that's the state of man in the fall. His nature is fallen. His will is fed by his nature.

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He does fallen things because he's a fallen person. That's right. Second Timothy 2, 24, it's a passage talking about the

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Lord's servant, the minister, the servant of God's word. He must be quarrelsome, must not be quarrelsome, but kind to everyone, able to teach...

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I was going to say, that felt weird. Hopefully he won't be quarrelsome. Something was off there. He must not be quarrelsome, but kind to everyone, able to teach patiently enduring evil, correcting his opponents with gentleness.

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God may perhaps grant them repentance, leading to a knowledge of the truth, and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil after being captured by him to do his will.

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So once again, speaking about the slavery of mankind, he is a bondage to sin.

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Romans chapter six, what's that glorious passage all about? When God actually takes us and unites us to Christ, right?

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Which is symbolized through baptism. And now Jesus has joined his life to ours and we're in him, safe clothed in his righteousness.

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His spirit now lives within us. His presence is actually bringing about the life that God requires. And we have a new master.

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We've been delivered from the dominion of darkness and brought into the kingdom of God's beloved son.

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And we don't serve the old master anymore. Now we can actually bring forth works that are pleasing to God because the nature has changed.

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There's something different now that wasn't there before. And that's something different that we're talking about, of course, is the grace of God.

50:31

And the idea behind this is that he's the one that must provide that. Man cannot even prepare himself unto salvation.

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That's the level of his inability. So not only can he not convert himself, but he can't even abide by the preparatory things to get close.

50:51

God's the one that has to do this whole thing. Well, and it's as simple as Romans chapter three. There is no

50:57

God seeker. Right. Now, look, here's the thing. It's one of those things as a Christian, it's like you read that a thousand times. It's like, but do you actually allow that truth and its implications come into your theology?

51:07

Yeah. There is none righteous. No, not one. There is none who seeks for God. So if nobody in the world is righteous and no one's seeking

51:14

God, pray tell, how does anybody do it? Yeah. And the answer has to be found in the sovereign God of scripture and not in ourselves.

51:22

Because, you know, we can just give the wave of the hand like, yeah, I believe those verses. No, hold on now. Wait, wait, wait, wait.

51:28

Wait, you're seeking God though. Wait, wait, wait, wait. I'm seeking God. Wait just a second. We talk about this free will and all this stuff.

51:35

It says that no one seeks for God. So how does anybody do it if no one does it?

51:41

No one's seeking God. And the answer is going to be found squarely in scripture. It's like this is something that God does. God grants repentance.

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God grants faith. Philippians 129, Ephesians 2, 8 and 9. And Hebrews actually says without faith, it's impossible to please

51:52

God. That's right. So who gives faith? So if there's no one righteous, no one living is righteous and no one seeks for God, then how is anybody saved?

52:00

And the answer has to be found in God. With God all things are possible. Exactly. In his accomplished work and what he does in salvation.

52:08

And the problem is this dispute gets to a place where there's so many people that will give the wave of the hand at the scriptures and say, well, yeah,

52:14

I believe all that. But it still has to be a cooperative effort sort of situation. It's like still got to be the synergistic two things working together in tandem.

52:21

God and me, we're working together sort of as a joint effort in salvation. Yeah. And it's like, well, wait a second. No, no, no, no, no.

52:27

Allow those verses to really tell the story because what we're saying is reformed folks and Calvinists who believe in the doctrines of grace.

52:33

I really believe those texts. I believe they're true. I believe that we're unable to come to God unless the father draws us.

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And if the father draws me, I will be raised up. That's the promise of Jesus in John 6, 44. I believe

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Romans chapter 3, all that katina of verses from Romans 3 that tells the whole story of the depravity of man and the sinfulness of man.

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Not righteous, not good, non God -seeking, poison of asps under their lips, no fear of God before their eyes.

52:59

I really believe that. I believe that's the state of the person taking my order at Starbucks who doesn't know

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Jesus. Yeah. That super sweet barista or the crazy zany person at Dutch Bros that will not shut up.

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I know they talk so much. Like, you know, okay, as nice and as sweet as they are and the common grace that's there, right?

53:21

I believe that if they don't know Jesus, they are not righteous, they're not good, they're non God -seeking and they will not pursue

53:27

God because Romans chapter 1 clearly says everybody knows the true God.

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They all know the true God. Romans chapter 1, it says the problem is that they suppress the truth and unrighteousness.

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And why is there so many false religions in the world? Why is there so much idolatry? It's not because God is far off and unknown.

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It's because God is specifically known. He's known clearly, but they don't want him,

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Paul says, in their knowledge, meaning they don't want to know him. They don't want to think about him. They don't want to know him.

53:57

They suppress the truth of God and unrighteousness and they switch the true God for an idol. And so the point there is that even in Paul's description of like this, this portrait of humanity in the fall that they know the true

54:08

God, they suppress the truth of God. The point is, is that they're not doing this in ignorance. Yeah. They're doing it knowingly, willingly, but they're self -deceived.

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We're not saying that the unbelievers walking around going, I know the true God and I hate him. I don't want to pretend like I don't.

54:24

Right. The point is, it's self -deception. Right. They are so sinful and rebellious that they are self -deceived.

54:30

And so what do people do? They choose the creature rather than the creator. They choose, like idolatry is so stupid.

54:37

I was talking with a church about two weekends ago. I was like, it's so stupid. Like you got people that put these stupid little idols up in their restaurants and like little cat, little gold cat, little arm flapping up and down or something like that or like this

54:47

Buddha or something like that. It's like, it's so dumb. Yeah. Powered by a motor that has to be maintained and repaired when it breaks.

54:53

Do you realize how dumb this is? Like this is so dumb. This is so dumb. Like this was made from the stuff that God produced with a human being that God made to put this on a stand and it doesn't move.

55:03

It's dumb. It's deaf. It's non -seeing. It's non -hearing. It doesn't benefit you at all and you worship this thing and you go, that's so foolish and the point is is that foolishness is actually, they're culpable for it.

55:16

Yeah. Because they know the true God according to Paul but they don't want him in their knowledge so they suppress the truth of God and unrighteousness and they are what?

55:23

It says in Romans 1, enemies of God. That's how the Bible talks about the relationship of fallen man and the true

55:32

God is that they are enemies of God, hostile to God. Ephesians chapter 2 says they are by nature children of wrath, not children of God via adoption.

55:41

They are by nature children of wrath and Paul says you're dead in your sins and trespass. The standard evangelical out there, even the

55:49

Roman Catholic, I want to say, look, do we really believe that? Does it have any meaning at all or is it just, is it just hyperbole?

55:56

Is it just some sort of poetic language or is it actually the consistent, thematic thing throughout

56:03

Scripture? You're dead. You're condemned. You're hostile to God. You're an enemy of God.

56:08

You know the true God. You switch them for idols you're unable to come to God and that's total inability.

56:13

Can we get that whole verse there? Which one? Ephesians 2. Yeah. And you are dead in the trespasses and sins in which you once walked following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh carrying out the desires of the body and the mind and were by nature children of wrath like the rest of mankind.

56:39

Like the rest of mankind. Like the rest of mankind. Like everybody else. Like everybody else belonging to the unregenerate carnal worldly pattern and mindset that you have been delivered from.

56:50

You've been redeemed from this. Yeah. So this is what you once were because there comes that beautiful truth that packs a punch in verse 4 but God.

56:59

Yeah. God who is rich in mercy. Right? When you didn't deserve this you weren't looking for it.

57:04

He did this. By grace have you been saved. Yeah. And by the way that it's important to note in terms of context not proof texting whole discourses in context

57:13

Ephesians 2 comes right after Ephesians 1. Ephesians 1 is that really sticky section about from verse 3 to 14.

57:22

He chose us in him before the foundation of the world. He chose us in him before the foundation of the world.

57:31

Now that starts off with the whole discussion of predestination and what God does and then it moves into here's where you were dead in your sins and trespasses but then what you pointed out is 4

57:42

Ephesians 2 .4 says but God being rich in mercy because of the great love with which he loved us even when we were dead in our trespasses made us alive together with Christ and then he defines it by grace you have been saved.

57:59

Huge. Made us alive. Yeah so here's what's key and I want to just encourage everyone just to I'm humbly encouraging just think about this he's just talking about predestination choosing us in Christ before the foundation of the world and then he goes into describing our condition before God saved us you were dead by nature children of wrath and that being dead has to mean something does it mean it like you were dead spiritually dead by nature a child of wrath he says but God he says made us alive who did the aliving there

58:35

God did God made us alive together with him and he says this ready by grace you've been saved so for and this is so key and that not of yourself yeah he says dead but God made you alive by grace you've been saved so for Paul in Ephesians 2 this is really key we love we love as Christians to quote

58:57

Ephesians 2 8 through 9 yeah by grace you've been saved and you're already all finishing for me right now you're finishing it by grace you've been saved through faith and that not of yourselves it is a gift of God not according to works lest any man should boast we all know that by heart

59:12

I hope you know it by heart but notice that that Ephesians 2 8 9 comes after Ephesians 4 and he's already defined what the grace part means that's right you were dead and God made you alive by grace you've been saved so if you want to read

59:29

Ephesians 2 8 and 9 in its real context he already told you what the by grace part means right and that was that you were dead and God made you alive oh and it's also through faith and that the grace and the faith not of yourselves gift of God not according to works could the apostle

59:46

Paul the inspired apostle be any clearer as to what our nature was what our plight was and how

59:53

God corrected it and all to his glory and even when it says in Ephesians 2 8 and 9 that this is not of us not according to works lest any man should boast he says in verse 10 watch this for we are his workmanship created in Christ Jesus for good works which

01:00:11

God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them it's like from the beginning to the end it's

01:00:16

God God God God raising your life God giving you faith and God preparing beforehand the works that you would walk in the good works that you would do it's

01:00:24

God God God nothing to do with you and I said this and I'll hand this over to you I said this when

01:00:29

I taught on the comprehensive sovereignty of God two weeks ago we find this offensive because we're so prideful we've got to have some part in this it's not just I said unbelievers that find the sovereignty of God offensive they don't want his it's obvious average unbeliever you get like why are they mad at the sovereignty of God because they don't like God being king and reigning over all things and being in control like they're already at war with this

01:00:55

God so you get why like they hate the sovereignty of God his rule his reign but there are also professing

01:01:01

Christians I made the point that also hate this truth of the sovereignty of God because there's still some bit of pride human pride and if it's true there's no claim for you to it what do you have it's all

01:01:15

God you mean it's all God yeah none of you you mean it had nothing to do with no nothing to do with you you weren't smarter you weren't stronger you weren't more spiritual you didn't understand more it was

01:01:23

God God God because you and I were not righteous not good and you weren't seeking for God he was seeking you by grace you've been saved he raised you up yeah several objections in the realm of evangelism even people don't want to believe that those that they come across could be hostile to God enemies of God this sweet person in front of me that just seems confused and in need of more information and then even you know people themselves just they make comments like well if that's the

01:01:54

God you're talking about I don't know if I could believe in a God like that you know I don't believe I don't know if I could believe in the

01:02:00

God of Matthew 11 27 at that time Jesus declared

01:02:05

I thank you Father Lord of heaven and earth that you have hidden these things from the wise and understanding and revealed them to little children wait he did what so you have

01:02:14

Jesus you have Jesus praising the Father for hiding truth from somebody yep people don't like that yes

01:02:23

Father for such was your gracious will gracious that was gracious of you gracious to do that Father yeah um again um you know the

01:02:32

Father raises the dead and gives them life but so also he is uh the son gives life to whom he will this is

01:02:41

God's prerogative to do what he pleases which brings us back to sovereignty of last time that we talked yeah this is a direct connection here to the sovereignty of God Jesus is walking through a graveyard he's walking through a graveyard and he bids some to come to life and others he passes over right and people don't like that Zach it is very offensive because they say that's not fair which tells you what about their anthropology that they think that people aren't so bad yeah they think people aren't really culpable and that God isn't so holy right they think that the violations of God's law are not so dramatic as to put people into a state of complete hostility towards God and judgment and so really what that expresses when you gave that I think perfect illustration the son gives life to whom he wills he's walking through a graveyard of dead people that's what scripture calls all of humanity is dead and he gives life to whom he wills he raises up people graciously and people say but what about the other one that's still on the ground oh you mean the one that's hostile to God enemy of God suppressing the truth of God and unrighteousness the one who's not righteous the one who's not good the one who's not

01:03:51

God -seeking the one who it says is the poison of asps under their lips the one who has no fear of God before their eyes so that's the point is that wait a second if we actually describe the person who remains in the grave dead accurately you would go why did

01:04:06

God give grace to anybody why is anybody getting this grace why is the son of man coming in and speaking life into dead people who hate him that's what makes the gospel so glorious and his grace so glorious because he's doing this for me and you and others who trust in Christ he's doing this for people who actually didn't want him

01:04:26

I should still be in the grave I should still be hostile to God the fact that he saved me is to his glory and it's not to mine

01:04:34

I wasn't deserving I wasn't even looking for him that's what the bible says and so the real everyone always wants to say well that's not fair and it means well you need to get your anthropology straight because your anthropology is not biblical we hate

01:04:47

God in the fall people say really I don't know

01:05:36

I don't know I don't know I don't know

01:05:50

I don't know I don't know I don't know I don't know

01:05:58

I don't know I don't know I don't know

01:06:18

I don't know I don't know I don't know We should have said it this way, you know coming away from those conversations and it's like we have to understand that This person is dead and it's not you

01:06:29

You are not the thing that's gonna save this person You're the instrument in the hands of the maker and it's his word in your mouth.

01:06:37

That's going to raise the dead to life, right? It's his word that has to do that But if if we don't believe that the person is beyond hope as the scripture says in a sense

01:06:47

Right without hope and without God in the world Then that means that nothing you can do can actually do this.

01:06:53

It has to be God speaking through you That's right. That actually saves a person saves anyone the gospel is the power of God for salvation, right?

01:07:00

Dunamis, yeah, same word we use for dynamite. Yeah, and you mentioned means it's the means by which someone is raised

01:07:07

Yeah, it's the means by which someone is quickened and brought from spiritual death to spiritual life Jesus says it's your favorite verse whoever hears my word and believes in him who sent me has eternal life

01:07:18

It's it's the word itself. That's right that and this is all over the scriptures

01:07:24

But the the Apostles are adamant about this is the Word of God that has created the

01:07:29

Christian Church It has created the fellowship of God's people This is the gospel that was preached to you the death burial and resurrection of Jesus.

01:07:36

In other words this word made you. Mm -hmm Right he James says brought us forth by the word of truth that word if you look at what it means,

01:07:46

I love it It literally means he he conceived you right you are conceived as a believer

01:07:53

By the seed of God's Word and he brought you forth. He brought you

01:07:58

Not only out of darkness into light, but he brought to Birth right so that language of conception and a new birth a new life there of his own will

01:08:09

He brought you forth. Yeah, very very critical of his own will he did this because he wanted to it was his

01:08:17

Determination it was his for ordination. It was his execution and application of the

01:08:23

Spirit's work in your life That actually brought about This condition of peace that you now enjoy with God in which you're not a rebel anymore

01:08:32

You once were and can I have you speak to this? I wanted to ask you about this maybe we can end or get close to ending on this point

01:08:37

Yeah, because I think some believers struggle with this sometimes when they hear This doctrine preached and the scripture teaches that I believe it with all my heart

01:08:47

But they'll say like well, does this mean then I feel like you're still Categorizing me as a

01:08:52

Christian as this no good worthless, you know garbage person

01:08:57

I feel like a bad person when you're preaching total depravity at me that I'm an enemy and I'm hostile Yes, God, and I can't do these things.

01:09:03

Is that what you're saying? Like as a Christian no now and that's that's we have to always be willing to correct things even within our own camp

01:09:11

Yeah, like and I feel like when we hear this even some people maybe they grew up with a bad upbringing

01:09:16

Maybe they grew up being told they were a piece of garbage And so now they associate when they hear being told no man is hostile.

01:09:24

He's a rebel. He doesn't want God. He hates God He's no good. He's worthless. There's a little bit of crossover between their experience

01:09:31

And the testimony of scripture exactly and I think the difference can be seen in how the Apostle Paul How the

01:09:37

New Testament speaks to a congregation and beloved loved by God Yeah, grace and peace saints, right?

01:09:44

And so the set -apart ones the ones who have been sanctified Object of God's love and I think it's important to note too in terms of contra

01:09:50

Rome This whole idea of like this special class of saint people sort of thing

01:09:57

It's like well well, it's interesting that the Apostle Paul feels very very comfortable just announcing to a Congregation of professing

01:10:03

Christians that you are Saints set apart by God. You are Saints So you are living ones. You are living

01:10:09

Saints living Saints. It's actually possible to be a living Saint and Here's here's the key issue out in this point when

01:10:16

I say being willing to correct things even one another Within our own camp sometimes reform folks can be so good on total depravity

01:10:23

It's not bad like so good on like this what the scriptures teach about the nature of man in the fall That's what God does in salvation

01:10:28

They could be so good at expressing that that they sort of carry that over into the Christian life

01:10:33

Mm -hmm, and they continue to talk about themselves, right in light of what scripture says about them pre

01:10:39

Christ Yeah, and it's like well, hold on just a second scripture actually has us now with a new identity

01:10:46

You're not in the Adam identity any longer. You're in the new Adam. You're in Christ and his identity

01:10:51

Creature new creature you are righteous in Christ. You have the gift of righteousness. God does not count your sins against you

01:10:58

It does not treat you as you serve. He separated as far as the East is from the West He counts you righteous apart from your works.

01:11:04

You have peace with God There is therefore now no condemnation for those who were in Christ Jesus the list goes on and so we're

01:11:10

Saints And so though you can say things like in myself Yeah, I was like this.

01:11:17

Yes, but now I'm alive in God I'm righteous in Jesus. And so no it isn't appropriate and we need to correct in the

01:11:23

Reformed community It isn't appropriate to keep dragging the old Condemnations into the current life.

01:11:31

Yeah, because really how we should be speaking is of course honestly about our sin But also honestly about our position in Jesus Christ Yeah, our identities in Jesus Which means that you should talk about yourself now in Christ the way that the

01:11:43

Bible does because it speaks very differently There's there's a big difference between the flesh and the spirit the old life and the new man

01:11:51

The new creation and the old creation. There's a big difference and so I think one of the things that's healthy for us is to Continuously meditate upon and believe

01:11:59

God's Word about our condition now Yeah, as opposed to how it was and that's not a man -centered exercise

01:12:05

That's a delight in what God says about his child. You're landing right on his word This is the declaration that he has spoken over you.

01:12:11

He sings over it. I'm arguing the opposite I'm arguing that you better stop looking to man stop looking to your own inner monologue

01:12:17

Stop looking to your circumstances and just believe what the father says about his children Because the more you delight in what

01:12:22

God says about you the more glorified he is right right at the end of the day Yeah at the end of the day if you're more satisfied in God, he's more glorified

01:12:29

Yeah, I mean that's the point of Piper and all his works Yeah Is that if you are enjoying your status if you go into God's presence knowing that you're fully accepted

01:12:38

That there's nothing you have to bring in order to gain entry into the very throne room itself That you're going there

01:12:45

With the stamp of God's approval on you with an advocate who will never fail you perfect sacrifice Yes, and his record is is

01:12:53

Has no blot in it. There's no stain That's right affects your entry before him into his presence and he'll always hear your prayers

01:13:00

And you know he'll always make sure that the Deficiency in your prayers is even taken to the throne room and given everything that it needs to be acceptable and pleasing

01:13:07

Even your stupid prayers even your hey Lord. It's me again. Yeah. Hey Lord. Yeah. Yeah, you're totally messed up prayer life

01:13:13

Right. Um, yeah, it's really important. And so we're gonna go into the after show in a moment here guys I think we did a long show today.

01:13:19

I was even paying attention to time I think it was a long show So we're doing after show and just a moment here meet us over at apologiestudios .com

01:13:25

But I want to at least pull The text we're gonna start to talk about and we're just gonna do two in the after show really big ones

01:13:33

Discourses from the Lord Jesus I started the show today reading from John 6 John's my favorite gospel and John 6 and John 10 are two of my favorite sections of John I love all of John, but I love them because it's it's so intimate

01:13:45

It's so intimate about Jesus love for me and his people and like the promise that he has

01:13:50

So I read to you the part about Jesus says it's the will of the father that he

01:13:55

Jesus loses none of All that the father has given to him. So the father has given people to Jesus that sounds like Ephesians 1

01:14:04

The father has given people to Jesus and Jesus says that it's the will I've come down to do the will of my father and that's

01:14:09

To lose none of them. So where did we ever get the idea that God can lose his people? I don't know but in terms of what the text says, but then

01:14:16

Jesus after saying that People start grumbling in John 6 41.

01:14:22

It says so the Jews grumbled About him because he said I am the bread that came down from heaven

01:14:28

They said is not this Jesus the son of Joseph's whose father and mother we know how does he now say I've come down from?

01:14:33

Heaven Jesus answered them Do not grumble among Yourselves no one can come to me

01:14:44

Unless the father who sent me draws him and I will raise him up on the last day

01:14:50

So who is the one that Jesus who's the him that Jesus raises up in the last day? Let's let's make sure we put it all together now

01:14:57

Who's the him that gets raised up? It's the one the father drew. Well, who was that? It was the one that couldn't come couldn't come.

01:15:05

Yeah, and so put it together No one can could Jesus be any more explicit? Do we need to try to fight our way out of that?

01:15:12

Should we try to get over that or do we just need to believe it? Jesus said no one can come to me.

01:15:17

No one has the ability to come to me So where do we ever get this idea that there's man is sort of like this Neutral party sin sometimes he's righteous.

01:15:25

Sometimes like he's got this free will he's got to sort of cooperate with God Jesus says this no one can no one can no one has the ability to come to me unless okay good news

01:15:33

Thank you, Lord. Thank you because that's bad news. No one can't unless the father who sent me draws him

01:15:38

Okay, great So the father has to draw and I will raise him up he raises up the one the father draws the one that couldn't come

01:15:45

That's what Jesus said. So here's what I've always said. Look I mean this with all humility because I didn't write this book

01:15:50

I'm a believer. I love Jesus. He saved me If you want to know where the doctrines of grace come from you won't like it

01:15:56

Give me where the Bible says it when give you lots of places Lots of places overload you with text for sure, but how about a whole discourse from Jesus on it?

01:16:04

You want to see what Jesus says that looks like the doctrines of grace? John 6 read

01:16:09

John 6 you'll see it all there There's a people chosen by the Father Given to Jesus to never lose to raise up in the last day and none of them could come apart from God drawing them and Jesus says

01:16:18

I will raise them up. I will not fail to do it That's basically the five points I mean

01:16:24

There's there's a lot we would need to go into in terms of the atonement itself and now what I would say Let's go to John 10 for that in terms of like the sheep and laying his life down for the sheep and all that stuff

01:16:32

We'll go into some of that in the after show But there's that is this show was not an exhaustive look at the issue of total inability

01:16:39

We could just sit here for an hour and just go through verse after verse after verse and just read read read read about the

01:16:44

Nature of man the will is enslaved our affections and desires are perverted all of that But we wanted to give you a solid foundation.

01:16:52

I think it hit the major points Yeah, hopefully it was a blessing and you know, if you want to start really studying this and testing

01:16:58

Well, we're saying by the Word of God, which is what you should be doing. I strongly encourage you to get the five points of Calvinism Who wrote that book

01:17:07

Steele and Thomas I think? Good book. He just has a great list of scripture Just text after text after text highly encourage you to get

01:17:15

Lorraine Bettner's book the reform doctrine of predestination. It'll bless your life I think you'll really rather enjoy that lots of scripture in there

01:17:23

Though there's there would be a good place to start Great list of scripture actually online

01:17:29

I've gone back to it many years just to give people a list because it's just convenient is Travis Carden CARDEN .com

01:17:37

has a list of verses for total depravity and It's just nice It has it all neatly tight together right there in different categories of the will enslaved and affections desires perverted and is everybody dead and sin

01:17:48

All that stuff and it's just verse after verse after verse so go to it go to it But we are going to go to the after show if you guys are not all access yet I encourage you guys to go and sign up for all access

01:17:59

You can join us in the after show even join us for the monthly ask me anything. It's a private stream with just all of our friends and ministry partners with me sometimes

01:18:08

Zach and But mostly me where we just get to talk to each other for about an hour and do questions and answers

01:18:15

Again, we love to bring you guys into this and bless you as much as we possibly can So go to apology of studios .com meet us in the after show.

01:18:22

We're gonna talk more about total depravity total inability in our series Defending Calvinism. Thank you guys so much.

01:18:28

I am Jeff. They call me the ninja. That is Zachary Conover See you guys got less. Don't forget to go to an abortion now calm go support us over there

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We have a number of states coming up next session with bills of abolition praise the Lord for that. We need your help

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We need your support your financial support your prayers for that. God bless you. We'll catch you on the other side This is the

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Academy I am Eli Ayala of revealed apologetics and I will be bringing a six -part series on Presuppositional apologetics.

01:19:15

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